>tl;dr speedruns should be glitchless.
Hey Ganker, /b/ tourist here (I denounce the Talmud, TKD etc) and I want to talk about speedrunning.
I remember the early days of speedrunning, watching videos (pre-Youtube) of DDQ and QDQ just being amazed at how what they were doing was possible. It blew my mind how they weaved through chaos to achieve these crazy times.
But speedrunning got worse, and is now very rarely what it should be. See, it used to be about being great at the game, both in terms of your knowledge and your skill. Sure you could use a technique like rocket-jumping, but it made sense within the game universe...
...now though, it's just all about glitches and exploits. Yeah they can be cool first time and make you think "how the hell did they find that?!" and watch these guys break a game, but it's missing something. It's missing actually getting good at the GAME rather than getting good at frame-perfect inputs to glitch yourself through walls.
I've been back on the Dark Souls train lately, and after beating DS2 again I wanted to see a DS2 speedrun.... but naturally it's all glitched. I searched for a glitchless run and found something I thought might be fun to watch, a glitchless all-bosses DS1R speedrun. Started watching it and the guy is quitting and reloading over and over to get certain results. Yeah ok it's not a 'glitch' but it's just so lame.
The point of this thread is because I think the only way to bring true respect back to speedrunning is by making it about SKILL again, making it impressive by virtue of ability in the game (as it is meant to be played) not at exploits.
I would like to propose a new universal category for speedruns, "PAI" which goes above "glitchless" and stands for "Played As Intended". These speedruns would not just be glitchless, but also free from save/reload crap or gay little stunlocks, and any exploits that go beyond what could be expected from the world. Open to any suggestions for how to make this happen.
Pic unrelated.
groomer thread
Anti-groomer thread really - if the trannies who have overrun the speedrunning community were forced to actually get good at a game, it would take too much time away from their ~~*other*~~ activities and they would probably try to find some new way
In an ideal world, but very few devs prioritise their game for speedrunning, and that's fine.
The definition needs some work I know, that's partly why I'm posting about it here, to try to refine it. Ideally there would be no saving/loading/quitting shenanigans, unless it's a particularly long speedrun (like something that's gonna take over 24hrs).
I know you're right, but I just don't understand why. The webm you posted is a perfect example of what I HATE - a great game but all people care about is shaving 0.01s off a glitch, it's the gayest fricking thing. Actually being good at the game, and playing it as intended, would be considerably more interesting. I can only figure shorter=better because ADHD?
crawl back into the sewers schlomo
I thought it was pretty easy to understand, but as you've come up with three examples that are very obviously not even remotely glitches.... I guess there's no accounting for morons. Let me try making it more obvious for you:
Black Knight Halberd is a legitimate weapon in the game, the Master Key is a legitimate item, and backstabbing is a legitimate move. All fine.
Starting with Black Knight Halberd, skipping Depths without the Master Key, or backstabbing from the front because LE HECKIN GLITCHERINOS is fake and gay and lame.
Me too fren. One of the best pure speedruns I've ever seen is Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 done, glitchless, in about 3 minutes. You should be able to find it on youtube with little difficulty, and it's gameplay only.
If your speedrun strat depends on the BKH why is it wrong to restart runs until you get it? it's not a glitch at all just a 20% drop rate or something
Assuming you're the same tard because you just don't seem to get it at all. Restarting runs is fine, not sure why you think it wouldn't be.
Not familiar with this game but seems pretty damn comfy. Also the run looks pure, down from 4 mins to 20 seconds is nice. I just don't get why so many people (as mentioned here
) would rather watch a version of the speedrun where it's done in 1 second because eXpLoItS
>Also the run looks pure, down from 4 mins to 20 seconds is nice.
My understanding of that 4 minute time is that that's the developer "recommended" time. But based on the few videos I've watched on that channel it looks like the developer estimates are pretty high. Regardless, there's a couple levels they've done a few times and it's neat to see how their times have improved. Actually might start running this game. Looks very comfy.
Yeah looks nice, don't sleep on the THPS3 speedrun though, crazy skill. Just wish I could understand why most people are more interested in watching glitches than good gameplay.
No, that's not what I meant by starting with it, which I thought I made pretty clear by adding GLITCHERINOS into the statement. If you reply again I'll just assume you're a troll.
Actually a good example of what many people consider the difference between a glitch and an exploit. I would like to see speedruns where none of those things are present. Glory killing through locked doors is not "PAI".
BKH runs are of course completely legit, but I get your point. It can be boring to watch a streamer run over and over to get a BKH with a 20% chance, but you know what's much worse than that? Watching a streamer repeatedly try to glitch through a wall with a 1% chance 15 minutes into the run and then reset cos he lost too much time.
In the BKH case, that's on the streamers for not coming up with potential other strats, but if something like BKH is the dominant strat then time saves have to come from tweaks elsewhere, and of course, better gameplay.
There's no other way to start with the BKH besides literally modding it in, it wouldn't be a "glitch" it would just be straight hacking.
Set the WR for DS1R glitchless without using BKH then I'll be impressed, otherwise keep your shit opinions to yourself.
If you reply to this with another autism post I'll assume you're in dire need of therapy and meds
I thought they don't use BKH anymore anyways
Also there's the option of making a drop mod that sets the drop rate to 100%. All this does is reduce how much you have to reset the beginning to get what you want, but obviously there's some pushback to playing with any sort of mod even if the speedrunning community as a whole agrees to use it. Though it's worth noting that from a casual viewer's perspective you wouldn't notice, it would look like he just got the drop normally.
Not the same person, just confused about the BKH thing
The fastest strat begins with running thru undead burg to the BKH knight right after arriving in Firelink
is that what you mean by "starting with the BKH"? I don't think there's a way to glitch it into your inventory without an external program
Not OP but I have mixed feelings about BKH runs. On the one hand, it's not a glitch and is a completely legitimate way to play the game. However, it's also incredibly boring to watch streamers continually reset hoping to get BKH. It's equally boring to start watching a VOD of a glitchless run and know it's going to be the same BKH route everyone does. My issue I guess is just the lack of originality/creativity. To be fair, this might actually be a critique of how popular speedrunning has become. I feel like runs had more personality when there weren't highly optimized routes.
>Me too fren. One of the best pure speedruns I've ever seen is Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 done, glitchless, in about 3 minutes. You should be able to find it on youtube with little difficulty, and it's gameplay only.
I'll check it out. I'm actually really enjoying this channel
. Never seen this game before but it's really rather soothing.
the fact is there is an argument to be made for and against each thing i listed.
resetting for the BKH is gay and makes speedrunning ds1 trash
glitches usually skip content, so possibly a PAI run shouldn't skip any mainline game content such as the depths
repeatedly backstabbing an enemy to death is a gay little stunlock
>resetting for the BKH is gay and makes speedrunning ds1 trash
Speedruns often have routes or strats that require RNG risks that might force a reset. It can be annoying, but it comes with the territory, and if it's too much of a problem then people will use a 'safer' strat. It's still considerably less gay than some OOB shit.
>glitches usually skip content, so possibly a PAI run shouldn't skip any mainline game content such as the depths
It's not about playing everything (unless it's an all-bosses or 100% speedrun, of course), though I concede that calling it PAI implies an area shouldn't be skipped. Needs a better name I guess. If the area can be skipped *legitimately* then it was intended by the devs to be technically optional, that would be my argument.
>repeatedly backstabbing an enemy to death is a gay little stunlock
Though it can be difficult to define things universally, and cases would have to be made per game and such, in this case I would argue that it's probably a pretty slow way to go. I wouldn't call it a gay stunlock because enemies CAN escape it, and it does require a certain amount of skill on the player's part. For a good example of gay stunlock, watch a Streets of Rage 2 speedrun where they just loop the first punch of a combo over and over...
Maybe instead of PAI it should just be called Hetero%
>These speedruns would not just be glitchless, but also free from save/reload crap
Hm? You saying, they won't save or load at all? Might want to clarify what you mean. Between that, and savescumming.
Sounds good though. In a perfect world, the console would include a timer that, would only count in-game, unpaused time, on the current save file; alongside a internal check for if the game were modded or not. For assisting with trial-based confirmations, without sketchy timing workarounds.
I only read the tldr
categories exist for a reason, and in pretty much every game glitchless is a less popular category because no one wants to run it over glitched.
>I DENOUNCE LE HECKIN TALMUD
>*most moronic post you've ever read in your life*
Go leave, Black person.
autismbro... how would you enforce "played as intended" in a run of something like dark souls 1. what does PAI even entail? do you allow black knight halberd or not? do you allow people to skip the depths with the master key or not? do you allow backstabbing or not?
"glitchless" is an easy to understand category. but what you are describing is not
Not him but-
Huuh? Backstabbing is supposed to be a glitch now? Exploitable opportunities are really only called glitches in something like a F2P MMO.
Can someone post some based, traditional speedrunners? I don't wanna see groomer freaks. I don't want face cams. I don't want dumb memes. I just want quality video games.
Ninja Gaiden runs are pure skill. No glitches, no wrongwarps, no abuses, just being gud at the game.
Speed running is dumb
Speedrunning is fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuId9LobX3Y
This game actually looks like it could be a fun speedrun. No glitches, no insane tricks, just pure skill.
speedruns are meant to run the game as fast as possible through whatever means allowed within the category though its hilarious you think some glitches arent skillful.
you sound like an autistic homosexual though with your arbitrary idea on what should and shouldnt be allowed in a "Glitchless" category.
>gsy little stunlocks
lmao
but if you dont like it make your own category
You're a homosexual and you missed the point almost as hard as you've missed pussy your whole fricking life.
dont see how i missed the point
>wanted to look at speedruns but they had glitches you didnt like
>went and looked up glitcheless but they were still doing things you consider cheating
>speedrunning is so awful! they have no skill anymore!
but sure, say whatever you want about me lmao. dont get me wrong i understand what you want but its not going to align to your standards 100%.
QUICK TELL ME ESA WHEN???
tl;dr
Speedruns should be recognizable as the same game the viewer played while making them go "wtf you can do that?"
Using Doom as an example, glory kills pushing you through a locked door are fine. Going out of bounds and running above the entire level is not.
I get the sentiment OP
I just can't be impressed by a speedrun that relies on glitches. I do not care if you beat a game in 1 minute by warping through the floor to the end credits. Its just not interesting to me.
When I see stuff like people going through Hell in Cave Story, something I can barely do while taking what time the game gives you, ultra quick I'm legitimately impressed. Its definitely showing off mechanical skill at the game.
But I've never been into the speedrunning thing in general because there has always been the autistic troony audience that jizzes at glitches. And I don't want to watch an autist reset a run a hundred times to get the rng they want. Both of those things are just part of the community so I don't participate in or pay attention to the community. If I come across speedrun that is interesting to me I'll watch it, but otherwise I don't bother.
THANK YOU, although I suspect you might be me. Summed up my thoughts pretty much exactly. Glitching to the end with some arbitrary code execution (like the SMW) is impressive in a way, but it's NOT speedrunning, and it's NOT impressive gameplay. What's really fun is like you said, watching someone effortlessly blitz through something you know is tough cos you've done it yourself.
It's legit sad the speedrunning 'community' is just autistic trannies jizzing at glitches, I guess a part of me would like to try and claim some of it back to showcase people with skill instead. By which I mean skill at the game, not at glitches.
>/srg/ died again
I guess we have to revive it once more during ESA...