Adults are bad
Rape is character development
Trying to achieve worldwide happiness is wrong
Gay people are icky
Pedophilia is right if women are the abusers
Brainwash people you dont like into being good
>Adults are le bad
This meme if the very definition of "filtered".
Go play bing bing wahoo, though I fear even that would be too intellectually stimulating for you.
>women are the abusers >Brainwash people
Oh sorry, I thought you were stupid, but it was just that you never played the game!
Said literally only Ryuji, the moron monkey of the group who has been constantly jumping to conclusions the whole game.
While you are helped by at least 2 adults.
Humans create a prison for themselves because they feel their actions cannot amount to change against the weight of society. All of the villains in P5 operate in plain sight because nobody is willing to stand up to them, they all just wait for a savior to come and take care of the problem. You don't need the power to change hearts to change your world, anyone can do it by connecting to others. In the end Joker is saved not by super powers but by his social links, all the people he formed bonds with working together.
>le power of friendship crap that’s in every single jrpg
I like SMT better because it teaches you that killing people that are in your way leads to the fulfillment of your goals.
Society functions when people help the ones around them. Trying to be too grand in your ambitions, even for good reasons, causes you to lose touch of the people around you and makes your failure inevitable. Sacrificing the people around you for those ambitions makes you a villain, regardless of whether you have good reasons or not.
She wasn’t dead, it was her parents that died and it traumatized her. He was fully aware of his powers at that point, so he just changed her memory of the event. Once he fully realized the extent of the way he could change things, I guess he just decided to let it be since she was happy.
She wasn't dead and MARUKI (PBUH) understood that if he was asking for everyone to sacrifice their """"""""""""""""""free"""""""""""""""""""" will he also had to sacrifice something, it's only fair. Anyone who is against his ideal world is a goddamn moron, in real life you are already at mercy of people more powerful than you at every point of your pathetic life: if a random psycho decides that today he'll kill you, your country decides that today they'll send you to die, your parents when you were a baby decide that they'll neglect you to the point of death, if some moron while you are driving your car/bike decides he is going to drunk drive at twice the speed limit and he crashes your car you'll also die etc etc. The reality is that the upsides of living in an ideal world are far superior to the "downside" of not having free will (a ridiculous downside given you will never know and since you could argue in our current world there's already a Maruki that predetermined all of our choices)
the maruki ending is morally identical to the yaldabaoth ending because the amount of suffering in the world doesn't change, only how well it's covered
>the maruki ending is morally identical to the yaldabaoth ending because [HEADCANON]
Wrong and the game even shows you in the "bad" ending why that makes no sense whatsoever. The only cope is that Maruki could eventually become evil but by what we have seen of him he'd most definitely go back to the previous status quo instead. Thinking Maruki is wrong is deluding yourself into thinking our current reality is right, which is something only the most sheltered morons could dare to entertain.
She wasn't dead but traumatized from her parents being murdered. He possibly could have altered her mind while still retaining her memories of him but by that point I think Maruki's martyr and messiah complex was starting to take hold.
Objective good exists and should be pursued regardless of public perception or shaming by useful idiots. The way to deal with the tribulations of sticking to unpopular opinions is to keep your friends close and actively maintain your friendships
There's 100 levels so it's easier to progress. They just bump a few things along the way. Plus they used for or less the same system for 25 years so they just adjusted things a bit by trial and error. This isn't like Baldur's Gate where you are stuck with 10 D&D levels so each level is a massive boost and you're stuck for hours at each given level.
They know generally what level range you are for a dungeon based on the EXP available, with exp diminishing once you pass the optimal range so even if you go back and grind its less effective past a point. From that you can balance the enemy level for what you expect the player to be at, make it stronger and weaker were appropriate. It's a lot of hard work.
They know generally what level range you are for a dungeon based on the EXP available, with exp diminishing once you pass the optimal range so even if you go back and grind its less effective past a point. From that you can balance the enemy level for what you expect the player to be at, make it stronger and weaker were appropriate. It's a lot of hard work.
I'm starting to think most of Ganker hasn't played Persona 5. Maybe they think tuning into a twitch stream for out-of-context cutscenes counts or something.
Persona 4 and 5 fall apart in the details because they hired assistant writers to script individual scenes, especially social links, while the director only handled the overarching story summary. They're simply too big and long for that to work. Persona 3 worked because it was the same guy handling all the writing, so while it was still rough around the edges everything still fed back onto the same overarching theme that was being pushed.
Persona 5 is doubly moronic because of how much writing was pushed onto the text messages that everyone just skipped. There's just so much dialogue all around that people lose track of what's important and their eyes glaze over, especially near the end.
But once you step back from the details and look at everything from the broader thematic point of view, it's still solid.
>Persona 5 is doubly moronic because of how much writing was pushed onto the text messages that everyone just skipped.
There are so many filler scenes like that I'm not surprised the average casual skipped so much. On replays my eyes glaze over at every single text message chat.
Okay, you're right, Persona 5 is a masterpiece of fiction, your emotional attachment is equal to a work's quality
It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. This is why nobody takes you seriously, you don't moderate your own emotional outbursts.
>everything still fed back onto the same overarching theme that was being pushed.
I know I might be replied with "it's bad on purpose" but to me the shift to P4/5 was a positive one.
This isn't a two hour movie where every single scene needs to have a relation to the overall narrative. In fact having a 100H long game totally focused would feel exceedingly artificial and boring. Past a certain length (and size of cast and number of situations) you need a lot of "filler" going in different directions with at best tangential connection with the main narrative, and not trying to push a unified theme. This is also the case for very long novels.
The thing is, P4/P5 didn't even do what you're saying. The various cutscenes still try and tie into the overarching plot or overarching themes, or both. What they did was cause a disconnect between the story and the script simply by virtue of the assistant writers not being the head director, so they don't have access to his own thought process. This is where you get shit like social link writing being tonally different from main story writing, to the extent that a character will feel like two completely separate people depending on who's writing the scene. This is a common complaint with P4 and especially P5 party social links, which P3 dodged by only letting you social link the girls and only after they had undergone a significant character development moment that the social link then built on.
P5 social links are the most thematically in-line with the games main theme of the three games.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>P5 social links are the most thematically in-line with the games main theme of the three games.
That would be P3's. Every single social link in P3 has to deal with loss/renewal in some way in addition to the card's basic description.
>whatever the hell was up with Ryuji
So going back to [...] >Trying to be too grand in your ambitions, even for good reasons, causes you to lose touch of the people around you and makes your failure inevitable. Sacrificing the people around you for those ambitions makes you a villain, regardless of whether you have good reasons or not.
This applies to the Phantom Thieves too, and Ryuji is the character that embodies it the most. He is, from the very beginning, focused on personal objectives. Even fighting Kamoshida, while also benefiting Ann, Shiho, and the rest of the school, earned him personal revenge against the man who ruined his life. After that, his primary reason for continuing as a Phantom Thief was explicitly for personal glory. He wants to be respected by everyone, he wants to get famous, this is shown even in the smaller details like how his ideal girl is an underclassman who will look up to him (funny enough, like Sumire). He's constantly pushing the angle of getting famous for its own sake, constantly scouring Mishima's website to see how popular they are and getting mad whenever people shittalk them in public. He's objectively helping people and making everyone's lives better, but it's for all the wrong reasons.
Those wrong reasons come to a head before and after the Okumura arc. He's all for going after Okumura simply because people online want them too, and has to be peer pressured by the rest into backing down. And because they get roped into going after Okumura, it leads to the PTs falling for an obvious setup and turning into wanted fugitives who are framed for murder. (Yes, Morgana has his own role in that, but that's a different post.)
Where Ryuji gets fricked over is in [...] because the main conversation where he shifts his mentality and starts fighting for the right reasons is in a fricking phone call. In Persona 3 it'd be a big huge cutscene and he'd get his second Persona from it. Pic very related.
It's crazy how different the tones of the games are
Persona 5 suffers a lot from character arcs being solely linked to their SLs, so for example Ryuji goes for someone who's abrasive and brash to someone who's willing to try again despite his injury, and more friendly
But in the story, he's still an abrasive moron without development
P5 was fun, but going from 3 to 5 or 5 to 3 is complete whiplash
It's definitley half-baked. The game isn't even consistent with it's own logic. Seriously it talks so much about the perils of authority figures and forcing others along with with your ambitions, only for the Phantom Thieves to become societal authority figures people look up to who force others to their own moral framework
>only for the Phantom Thieves to become societal authority figures people look up to who force others to their own moral framework
Yeah dude all those actual rebellions that have happened in history weren't bloody at all. They had a sit down and chat with the corrupt nobility lol
name one situation where phantom thieves forced anyone to do anything. change of heart depends on the castle ruler's. the phantom thieves just gave them a push to realize what pieces of shit each person when confronted with their distorted desires. phantoms thieves and their change of hearts reminds me of a Ayahuasca treatment ngl tbh.
but even after each individual had a change of heart it wasnt as if they decided to become saints and help the world. instead each just wished for the world to end along with them. thus feeding into the holygrail/yaldalbaoth.
the demiurge feeds on suffering and the will of humanity.
I don't really remember the consequences of altering the entire world so everyone could be happy. I figured there were conflicts, or it was fragile, but that might be headcanon.
Otherwise I would've liked this guy to create the perfect world for me where I can be happy. Anything's better than this to be honest.
>I don't really remember the consequences of altering the entire world
The people with palaces (or in mementos about to develop a palace) already had twisted mindsets that were being influenced by deranged thought processes. Stealing the treasure is not a lobotomy, it was akin to speedrunning a bunch of therapy sessions.
Speaking to their shadow (their literal unconscious mind) likely had a huge effect.
>Society sucks, but at the same time, you're PART OF society. You can do something to make it suck less instead of waiting for a magic cure to all your ails to drop into your lap.
But of course, people don't like that one, so a lot of them ignore it in favor of something utterly incomprehensible, or just a meme about one of the game's writing failures like whatever the hell was up with Ryuji. He comes across autistic, not the "le super smart but a little fixated" kind, but "just fixated, no smart" kind.
Ryuji always sounded like the average highschool moron to me. Like, the best representation of a highly social highschool boy I've ever seen. I've seen so many kids exactly like him.
Maybe it's that it comes across different in writing than in real life. Reality looks unrealistic when everything around it is dressed up so that it's more readable to an outside observer and all.
>whatever the hell was up with Ryuji
So going back to
Society functions when people help the ones around them. Trying to be too grand in your ambitions, even for good reasons, causes you to lose touch of the people around you and makes your failure inevitable. Sacrificing the people around you for those ambitions makes you a villain, regardless of whether you have good reasons or not.
>Trying to be too grand in your ambitions, even for good reasons, causes you to lose touch of the people around you and makes your failure inevitable. Sacrificing the people around you for those ambitions makes you a villain, regardless of whether you have good reasons or not.
This applies to the Phantom Thieves too, and Ryuji is the character that embodies it the most. He is, from the very beginning, focused on personal objectives. Even fighting Kamoshida, while also benefiting Ann, Shiho, and the rest of the school, earned him personal revenge against the man who ruined his life. After that, his primary reason for continuing as a Phantom Thief was explicitly for personal glory. He wants to be respected by everyone, he wants to get famous, this is shown even in the smaller details like how his ideal girl is an underclassman who will look up to him (funny enough, like Sumire). He's constantly pushing the angle of getting famous for its own sake, constantly scouring Mishima's website to see how popular they are and getting mad whenever people shittalk them in public. He's objectively helping people and making everyone's lives better, but it's for all the wrong reasons.
Those wrong reasons come to a head before and after the Okumura arc. He's all for going after Okumura simply because people online want them too, and has to be peer pressured by the rest into backing down. And because they get roped into going after Okumura, it leads to the PTs falling for an obvious setup and turning into wanted fugitives who are framed for murder. (Yes, Morgana has his own role in that, but that's a different post.)
Where Ryuji gets fricked over is in
Persona 4 and 5 fall apart in the details because they hired assistant writers to script individual scenes, especially social links, while the director only handled the overarching story summary. They're simply too big and long for that to work. Persona 3 worked because it was the same guy handling all the writing, so while it was still rough around the edges everything still fed back onto the same overarching theme that was being pushed.
Persona 5 is doubly moronic because of how much writing was pushed onto the text messages that everyone just skipped. There's just so much dialogue all around that people lose track of what's important and their eyes glaze over, especially near the end.
But once you step back from the details and look at everything from the broader thematic point of view, it's still solid.
because the main conversation where he shifts his mentality and starts fighting for the right reasons is in a fricking phone call. In Persona 3 it'd be a big huge cutscene and he'd get his second Persona from it. Pic very related.
I hate tying tier two persona to the main plot. Your actions and decisions sparking change is at the heart of not only the narrative but the gameplay loop. It was fine in 3 since they went all in on making it a sim where your party just does their own thi g but I wouldn't want to repeat it for 5.
>It was fine in 3 since they went all in on making it a sim where your party just does their own thi g but I wouldn't want to repeat it for 5.
There's no point keeping 3's life sim gameplay formula if they're not going to commit to it.
I was talking more about how he comes across in the moment to moment writing.
Even when he's firmly among friends and only friends, when they're trying to keep it secret from other people, he will name drop the Phantom Thieves endlessly. Him practically shouting that shit from the rooftops is ALMOST as openly moronic as Makoto "I heard something slightly incriminating, time to immediately confront the person I heard it from instead of applying an ounce of tact or common sense" Nijima. (She did this to you over you being suspiciously close with Ann a long time before she did it with the actual criminal; I think it's enough to constitute a habit.) I understand, he wants fame, he just thinks "haha wouldn't it be neat if I could secretly share it with just one fan who overheard us" or something- but GOD FRICKING DAMN are characters integral to the party acting entirely against the party's interests always fricking annoying. He will continue to spout "FOR REAL" and "SHITTY ADULTS" like the catchy, versatile phrases I'm sure they are... in Japanese. In English, they come across stiff, unnatural, and again, fixated. I should know. I know a guy who's a similar kind of autistic, he gets caught on very specific ways of phrasing a certain thing and will use that specific phrasing every time he has a reason for years at a time.
And for all that, what does he bring to the actual party dynamic in the supermajority of scenes? Saying the dumb/wrong thing that another character has to correct somehow, being the first to get angry at some stuff, being the butt monkey? It makes him feel EXCEPTIONALLY one-note and irritating to me, even if it's hard to put a finger on why at times.
You need to stop people who disrupt the status quo and want to undo evil. Because all the abuse you received from society helped you develop your character, even though your personal hardships were just bullying and stress, while others were raped or had their loved ones murdered.
Motherfrickers literally to dumb to realize that turning/merging reality with qlippoth is literally unironically what israelites been working towards for over a millennium
That arc is easily the worst part of the game.
Morgana becomes stupid and reckless, Haru is just a dumb bimbo who gets stringed along, the gang treats Ryuji like he made fun of a dead relative and Joker is forced to become a man-baby without having a Jiminy cricket to tell him when to sleep or feed.
This debate is so artificial. Nobody in their right minds says Kaneshiro was right to sell drugs to kids and put them in fricked up pyramid schemes and say the PTs were in the wrong for taking away that poor criminal's freedoms.
That's a half step away from saying the justice system is bad because it locks criminals away and takes away their freedoms too.
Yeah. The difference between the Thieves and the corrupt authority figures they took down is that the Thieves acted in retaliation against the perpetrators of acts that took away the freedom of others, the most paramount virtue.
Those poor kid rapists, drug selling mafia, plagiarists, and corrupt political figures. They should have let Futaba kill herself, she had the freedom to do that, would have been happier too 🙁
>adults are le bad
wow, not even surprised that OP isn't the only moronic here that didn't understand that lol
P4 was released 15 years ago and you can still see lots of people completely missing the point about the plot and its characters.
It tries to tell a message about personal choice, responsibility, and man's inherent obligation to right the wrongs he bears witness to, but it kinda falls flat when they introduce the guy who could literally fix everyone's fricking problems and the main cast goes "No, not like that, that's the WRONG way" after they spent a whole fricking year doing what he did but at a micro level.
>the guy who could literally fix everyone's fricking problems >when presented with an incredibly simple problem like "two old women take unnecessary joy in one-upping each other with their husbands' achievements" he chooses to give them increasingly elaborate things to brag about because that's what makes them happy in the moment >even though in real life they'd realized they were both being immature already and were starting to become healthier with each other
Sure thing buddy.
Frick off.
>in real life
There is no "in real life." Maruki was a step away from overwriting reality itself thanks to Azathot's cognitive powers. He could've made everyone happy and the Phantom Thieves ruined that due to their personal selfishness, limited scope, and refusal to acknowledge that many people--the majority, even--would've been perfectly fine with Maruki's lotus eater machine. Eat a dick, gay. It's always the most average, middle-of-the-road, "well, nothing bad ever happened in MY life, so clearly everything should stay the same" loser Black folk who cry about endings like Maruki's.
Maruki doesn't give a shit about SOLVING problems, only about making them APPEAR solved. What he did to Sumire was meant to show that. He's not doing it out of genuine concern for other people, he just wants them to stop being sad in his sight, because in spite of his messiah complex, he seems to almost completely LACK empathy, at least from a writing perspective.
I don't fricking care how miserable your life has been individually, whatever form it would take in Maruki's world is irrelevant because YOU wouldn't be living it. A hollow puppet brainwashed into being happy with some shitty-but-inevitable parts of its life would be in your place.
Adults are le bad
Adults are bad
Rape is character development
Trying to achieve worldwide happiness is wrong
Gay people are icky
Pedophilia is right if women are the abusers
Brainwash people you dont like into being good
>Adults are le bad
This meme if the very definition of "filtered".
Go play bing bing wahoo, though I fear even that would be too intellectually stimulating for you.
>women are the abusers
>Brainwash people
Oh sorry, I thought you were stupid, but it was just that you never played the game!
SHITTY ADULTS
Said literally only Ryuji, the moron monkey of the group who has been constantly jumping to conclusions the whole game.
While you are helped by at least 2 adults.
Humans create a prison for themselves because they feel their actions cannot amount to change against the weight of society. All of the villains in P5 operate in plain sight because nobody is willing to stand up to them, they all just wait for a savior to come and take care of the problem. You don't need the power to change hearts to change your world, anyone can do it by connecting to others. In the end Joker is saved not by super powers but by his social links, all the people he formed bonds with working together.
>le power of friendship crap that’s in every single jrpg
I like SMT better because it teaches you that killing people that are in your way leads to the fulfillment of your goals.
Society functions when people help the ones around them. Trying to be too grand in your ambitions, even for good reasons, causes you to lose touch of the people around you and makes your failure inevitable. Sacrificing the people around you for those ambitions makes you a villain, regardless of whether you have good reasons or not.
Rotten Adults
Cats make for uncanny looking humans.
Humans defer to authority at the expense of critical thinking, true rebellion is to question everything.
Wake up. Get up. Get out there.
Don't get a cat.
Eating hamburgers leads to massive development in character.
Correction, eating a 8kg burger makes you q better person
Also playing darts with your buddies a few times will turn you all into an unstoppable killing force.
cucks will try to rule the world but eventually fail
Acedia is the gravest of all sins.
Why didnt he just bring back his dead wife
She wasn’t dead, it was her parents that died and it traumatized her. He was fully aware of his powers at that point, so he just changed her memory of the event. Once he fully realized the extent of the way he could change things, I guess he just decided to let it be since she was happy.
She wasn't dead and MARUKI (PBUH) understood that if he was asking for everyone to sacrifice their """"""""""""""""""free"""""""""""""""""""" will he also had to sacrifice something, it's only fair. Anyone who is against his ideal world is a goddamn moron, in real life you are already at mercy of people more powerful than you at every point of your pathetic life: if a random psycho decides that today he'll kill you, your country decides that today they'll send you to die, your parents when you were a baby decide that they'll neglect you to the point of death, if some moron while you are driving your car/bike decides he is going to drunk drive at twice the speed limit and he crashes your car you'll also die etc etc. The reality is that the upsides of living in an ideal world are far superior to the "downside" of not having free will (a ridiculous downside given you will never know and since you could argue in our current world there's already a Maruki that predetermined all of our choices)
the maruki ending is morally identical to the yaldabaoth ending because the amount of suffering in the world doesn't change, only how well it's covered
>the maruki ending is morally identical to the yaldabaoth ending because [HEADCANON]
Wrong and the game even shows you in the "bad" ending why that makes no sense whatsoever. The only cope is that Maruki could eventually become evil but by what we have seen of him he'd most definitely go back to the previous status quo instead. Thinking Maruki is wrong is deluding yourself into thinking our current reality is right, which is something only the most sheltered morons could dare to entertain.
literally no reality is worth mind controlling half the human population no mater how happy it is
She wasn't dead but traumatized from her parents being murdered. He possibly could have altered her mind while still retaining her memories of him but by that point I think Maruki's martyr and messiah complex was starting to take hold.
Being japanese sucks
A world without rape is not worth living.
Japan is shithole.
"Its okay when we do it."
For a game where the characters repeat everything at least 6 times I don't actually know.
Objective good exists and should be pursued regardless of public perception or shaming by useful idiots. The way to deal with the tribulations of sticking to unpopular opinions is to keep your friends close and actively maintain your friendships
Persona and SMT games confuse me in a mechanical sense
How do they know how to scale your stats each level? What's the algorithm for it?
Get raped.
Get smoked.
There's 100 levels so it's easier to progress. They just bump a few things along the way. Plus they used for or less the same system for 25 years so they just adjusted things a bit by trial and error. This isn't like Baldur's Gate where you are stuck with 10 D&D levels so each level is a massive boost and you're stuck for hours at each given level.
I will keep these in mind, arigatou
They know generally what level range you are for a dungeon based on the EXP available, with exp diminishing once you pass the optimal range so even if you go back and grind its less effective past a point. From that you can balance the enemy level for what you expect the player to be at, make it stronger and weaker were appropriate. It's a lot of hard work.
Frumpy jaded high school teachers should be repeatedly impregnated by their students.
FOR REAL?
A thousand deaths are not enough for that c**t
I'm starting to think most of Ganker hasn't played Persona 5. Maybe they think tuning into a twitch stream for out-of-context cutscenes counts or something.
Maybe Persona 5 just isn't well written
It's pretty well written, you didn't pay attention, especially if you're going around confidently spreading lies about it.
Okay, you're right, Persona 5 is a masterpiece of fiction, your emotional attachment is equal to a work's quality
No, for a JRPG its definitely well written.
Persona 4 and 5 fall apart in the details because they hired assistant writers to script individual scenes, especially social links, while the director only handled the overarching story summary. They're simply too big and long for that to work. Persona 3 worked because it was the same guy handling all the writing, so while it was still rough around the edges everything still fed back onto the same overarching theme that was being pushed.
Persona 5 is doubly moronic because of how much writing was pushed onto the text messages that everyone just skipped. There's just so much dialogue all around that people lose track of what's important and their eyes glaze over, especially near the end.
But once you step back from the details and look at everything from the broader thematic point of view, it's still solid.
>Persona 5 is doubly moronic because of how much writing was pushed onto the text messages that everyone just skipped.
There are so many filler scenes like that I'm not surprised the average casual skipped so much. On replays my eyes glaze over at every single text message chat.
It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. This is why nobody takes you seriously, you don't moderate your own emotional outbursts.
The guy stomping his foot about "reee casuals didn't understand muh deep personer game" calling other posts emotional outbursts, I love it
>everything still fed back onto the same overarching theme that was being pushed.
I know I might be replied with "it's bad on purpose" but to me the shift to P4/5 was a positive one.
This isn't a two hour movie where every single scene needs to have a relation to the overall narrative. In fact having a 100H long game totally focused would feel exceedingly artificial and boring. Past a certain length (and size of cast and number of situations) you need a lot of "filler" going in different directions with at best tangential connection with the main narrative, and not trying to push a unified theme. This is also the case for very long novels.
The thing is, P4/P5 didn't even do what you're saying. The various cutscenes still try and tie into the overarching plot or overarching themes, or both. What they did was cause a disconnect between the story and the script simply by virtue of the assistant writers not being the head director, so they don't have access to his own thought process. This is where you get shit like social link writing being tonally different from main story writing, to the extent that a character will feel like two completely separate people depending on who's writing the scene. This is a common complaint with P4 and especially P5 party social links, which P3 dodged by only letting you social link the girls and only after they had undergone a significant character development moment that the social link then built on.
P5 social links are the most thematically in-line with the games main theme of the three games.
>P5 social links are the most thematically in-line with the games main theme of the three games.
That would be P3's. Every single social link in P3 has to deal with loss/renewal in some way in addition to the card's basic description.
It's crazy how different the tones of the games are
Persona 5 suffers a lot from character arcs being solely linked to their SLs, so for example Ryuji goes for someone who's abrasive and brash to someone who's willing to try again despite his injury, and more friendly
But in the story, he's still an abrasive moron without development
P5 was fun, but going from 3 to 5 or 5 to 3 is complete whiplash
I'm hoping the P3 remake will remind the writers of how to write good characters.
There's always the chance they ruin it, anon.
What will be, will be. I'm not gunna get hyped or worried until I've actually played it.
It's definitley half-baked. The game isn't even consistent with it's own logic. Seriously it talks so much about the perils of authority figures and forcing others along with with your ambitions, only for the Phantom Thieves to become societal authority figures people look up to who force others to their own moral framework
>only for the Phantom Thieves to become societal authority figures people look up to who force others to their own moral framework
Yeah dude all those actual rebellions that have happened in history weren't bloody at all. They had a sit down and chat with the corrupt nobility lol
name one situation where phantom thieves forced anyone to do anything. change of heart depends on the castle ruler's. the phantom thieves just gave them a push to realize what pieces of shit each person when confronted with their distorted desires. phantoms thieves and their change of hearts reminds me of a Ayahuasca treatment ngl tbh.
but even after each individual had a change of heart it wasnt as if they decided to become saints and help the world. instead each just wished for the world to end along with them. thus feeding into the holygrail/yaldalbaoth.
the demiurge feeds on suffering and the will of humanity.
the PTs are not at all like the corrupt authority figures they've taken down.
I don't really remember the consequences of altering the entire world so everyone could be happy. I figured there were conflicts, or it was fragile, but that might be headcanon.
Otherwise I would've liked this guy to create the perfect world for me where I can be happy. Anything's better than this to be honest.
>I don't really remember the consequences of altering the entire world
The people with palaces (or in mementos about to develop a palace) already had twisted mindsets that were being influenced by deranged thought processes. Stealing the treasure is not a lobotomy, it was akin to speedrunning a bunch of therapy sessions.
Speaking to their shadow (their literal unconscious mind) likely had a huge effect.
the moral of P5 is that having sex with underage schoolchildren is only okay if you're a hag
Damn adults! For Real?!
You can't do anything with your life if you're in the middle of a few story days, especially if your cat tells you to go to sleep.
Japs are soulless and incapable of enacting true freedom of will or action
>Society sucks, but at the same time, you're PART OF society. You can do something to make it suck less instead of waiting for a magic cure to all your ails to drop into your lap.
But of course, people don't like that one, so a lot of them ignore it in favor of something utterly incomprehensible, or just a meme about one of the game's writing failures like whatever the hell was up with Ryuji. He comes across autistic, not the "le super smart but a little fixated" kind, but "just fixated, no smart" kind.
Ryuji always sounded like the average highschool moron to me. Like, the best representation of a highly social highschool boy I've ever seen. I've seen so many kids exactly like him.
Maybe it's that it comes across different in writing than in real life. Reality looks unrealistic when everything around it is dressed up so that it's more readable to an outside observer and all.
>whatever the hell was up with Ryuji
So going back to
>Trying to be too grand in your ambitions, even for good reasons, causes you to lose touch of the people around you and makes your failure inevitable. Sacrificing the people around you for those ambitions makes you a villain, regardless of whether you have good reasons or not.
This applies to the Phantom Thieves too, and Ryuji is the character that embodies it the most. He is, from the very beginning, focused on personal objectives. Even fighting Kamoshida, while also benefiting Ann, Shiho, and the rest of the school, earned him personal revenge against the man who ruined his life. After that, his primary reason for continuing as a Phantom Thief was explicitly for personal glory. He wants to be respected by everyone, he wants to get famous, this is shown even in the smaller details like how his ideal girl is an underclassman who will look up to him (funny enough, like Sumire). He's constantly pushing the angle of getting famous for its own sake, constantly scouring Mishima's website to see how popular they are and getting mad whenever people shittalk them in public. He's objectively helping people and making everyone's lives better, but it's for all the wrong reasons.
Those wrong reasons come to a head before and after the Okumura arc. He's all for going after Okumura simply because people online want them too, and has to be peer pressured by the rest into backing down. And because they get roped into going after Okumura, it leads to the PTs falling for an obvious setup and turning into wanted fugitives who are framed for murder. (Yes, Morgana has his own role in that, but that's a different post.)
Where Ryuji gets fricked over is in
because the main conversation where he shifts his mentality and starts fighting for the right reasons is in a fricking phone call. In Persona 3 it'd be a big huge cutscene and he'd get his second Persona from it. Pic very related.
I hate tying tier two persona to the main plot. Your actions and decisions sparking change is at the heart of not only the narrative but the gameplay loop. It was fine in 3 since they went all in on making it a sim where your party just does their own thi g but I wouldn't want to repeat it for 5.
>It was fine in 3 since they went all in on making it a sim where your party just does their own thi g but I wouldn't want to repeat it for 5.
There's no point keeping 3's life sim gameplay formula if they're not going to commit to it.
I was talking more about how he comes across in the moment to moment writing.
Even when he's firmly among friends and only friends, when they're trying to keep it secret from other people, he will name drop the Phantom Thieves endlessly. Him practically shouting that shit from the rooftops is ALMOST as openly moronic as Makoto "I heard something slightly incriminating, time to immediately confront the person I heard it from instead of applying an ounce of tact or common sense" Nijima. (She did this to you over you being suspiciously close with Ann a long time before she did it with the actual criminal; I think it's enough to constitute a habit.) I understand, he wants fame, he just thinks "haha wouldn't it be neat if I could secretly share it with just one fan who overheard us" or something- but GOD FRICKING DAMN are characters integral to the party acting entirely against the party's interests always fricking annoying. He will continue to spout "FOR REAL" and "SHITTY ADULTS" like the catchy, versatile phrases I'm sure they are... in Japanese. In English, they come across stiff, unnatural, and again, fixated. I should know. I know a guy who's a similar kind of autistic, he gets caught on very specific ways of phrasing a certain thing and will use that specific phrasing every time he has a reason for years at a time.
And for all that, what does he bring to the actual party dynamic in the supermajority of scenes? Saying the dumb/wrong thing that another character has to correct somehow, being the first to get angry at some stuff, being the butt monkey? It makes him feel EXCEPTIONALLY one-note and irritating to me, even if it's hard to put a finger on why at times.
You need to stop people who disrupt the status quo and want to undo evil. Because all the abuse you received from society helped you develop your character, even though your personal hardships were just bullying and stress, while others were raped or had their loved ones murdered.
Motherfrickers literally to dumb to realize that turning/merging reality with qlippoth is literally unironically what israelites been working towards for over a millennium
bros.. I just completely lost desire to play just when meeting Haru...
That arc is easily the worst part of the game.
Morgana becomes stupid and reckless, Haru is just a dumb bimbo who gets stringed along, the gang treats Ryuji like he made fun of a dead relative and Joker is forced to become a man-baby without having a Jiminy cricket to tell him when to sleep or feed.
Power through. It gets better afterward.
This debate is so artificial. Nobody in their right minds says Kaneshiro was right to sell drugs to kids and put them in fricked up pyramid schemes and say the PTs were in the wrong for taking away that poor criminal's freedoms.
That's a half step away from saying the justice system is bad because it locks criminals away and takes away their freedoms too.
Yeah. The difference between the Thieves and the corrupt authority figures they took down is that the Thieves acted in retaliation against the perpetrators of acts that took away the freedom of others, the most paramount virtue.
Those poor kid rapists, drug selling mafia, plagiarists, and corrupt political figures. They should have let Futaba kill herself, she had the freedom to do that, would have been happier too 🙁
People suck.
>adults are le bad
wow, not even surprised that OP isn't the only moronic here that didn't understand that lol
P4 was released 15 years ago and you can still see lots of people completely missing the point about the plot and its characters.
>Ah I see...if a god's playing naughty then its a demon lord's duty to punish him
>begone!
goosebumps every time
Was Maruki right?
His heart was in the right place, but he was absolutely wrong.
Far better to let people take what they deserve than decide it for them.
I disagree, but I will not elaborate.
No he was a dumb shit.
If Maruki was a dumb shit, what does that make Akechi?
Gay
He's fujobaitmaxxing which means he's straight.
Murderer gay.
Akechi's sacrifice in classic was just a weaker version of Jin's, but it was based that he used berserk on himself for the fight
his motives were pure but his methods were flawed
All adults are evil
"You MUST be social and get lots of friends!!!"
just be a hypocrite bro
It tries to tell a message about personal choice, responsibility, and man's inherent obligation to right the wrongs he bears witness to, but it kinda falls flat when they introduce the guy who could literally fix everyone's fricking problems and the main cast goes "No, not like that, that's the WRONG way" after they spent a whole fricking year doing what he did but at a micro level.
>the guy who could literally fix everyone's fricking problems
>when presented with an incredibly simple problem like "two old women take unnecessary joy in one-upping each other with their husbands' achievements" he chooses to give them increasingly elaborate things to brag about because that's what makes them happy in the moment
>even though in real life they'd realized they were both being immature already and were starting to become healthier with each other
Sure thing buddy.
Frick off.
>in real life
There is no "in real life." Maruki was a step away from overwriting reality itself thanks to Azathot's cognitive powers. He could've made everyone happy and the Phantom Thieves ruined that due to their personal selfishness, limited scope, and refusal to acknowledge that many people--the majority, even--would've been perfectly fine with Maruki's lotus eater machine. Eat a dick, gay. It's always the most average, middle-of-the-road, "well, nothing bad ever happened in MY life, so clearly everything should stay the same" loser Black folk who cry about endings like Maruki's.
Maruki doesn't give a shit about SOLVING problems, only about making them APPEAR solved. What he did to Sumire was meant to show that. He's not doing it out of genuine concern for other people, he just wants them to stop being sad in his sight, because in spite of his messiah complex, he seems to almost completely LACK empathy, at least from a writing perspective.
I don't fricking care how miserable your life has been individually, whatever form it would take in Maruki's world is irrelevant because YOU wouldn't be living it. A hollow puppet brainwashed into being happy with some shitty-but-inevitable parts of its life would be in your place.