Can someone explain to me what the point of stat allocation like this.
How is high ATK and Sp.ATK not just wasted stats?
Are they expecting you to use both special and physical moves with a neutral nature that doesn't lower ATK or Sp.ATK?
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A nature that lowers defense so you can play mixed, yes.
Or maybe even lower speed, 80 isn't much for Ubers is it?
But doesn't that still leave you with one gimped ATK stat? You'd still end up with either ATK or Sp.ATK much lower than the other because you have a nature that favors the other.
Hoopa-U has 60 base defense, you're not losing much by going with a Hasty nature.
That does answer what I said, though.
Nature that favors ATK = 460 ATK with 439 Sp.ATK.
You'd still want to use all physical moves in this situation.
AND you'd have to spend all of your EV points in ATK stats rather than Speed or HP. Like, isn't that a huge survivability loss?
Or, do you just like trick room and hope for a sweep?
Mixed sets exist, anon. Sometimes you want to hit something with more or less special bulk and not need to switch out.
I guess.
Can you give an example where it would be viable?
Gunk Shot Greninja for one. Usually mixed sets rely on huge BP moves or high base stats and forgo investing in the sub-offensive stat entirely. Uninvested Neutral nature Gunk Shot does way more to specially defensive Grass and Fairy switch-ins than Ice Beam does. In older formats, many Dragon-types would run Fire Blast with minimal special attack investment to punish Steel-type switches.
>Uninvested Neutral nature Gunk Shot does way more to specially defensive Grass and Fairy switch-ins than Ice Beam does.
I see. While this is interesting, it's still somewhat different than what I'm talking about.
Which is cases where'd you want to invest in both ATK and Sp.ATK to use all of a pokemon's best moves.
I've looked up a handle full of competitive builds, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone spending EVs in both ATK and Sp.ATK.
Then keep looking them up, they exist and if you want to see them it's your responsibility to find them
You must be seeing things that I'm not. Because even guides on mixed attackers doesn't say to split their EVs into different ATK stats.
https://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/ev_distribution
What this anon
said mirrors what I've been seeing.
You don't invest in both equally.
>you want to invest in both ATK and Sp.ATK to use all of a pokemon's best moves
The best way I could phrase it, is, you want to invest in both ATK and Sp.ATK to hit your 'goals'.
If you could 1-shot the entire meta with only 90 invested ATK EVs, it would be unnecessary overkill to put the full 252 in ATK.
If you could do 55% damage to every Pokemon at 200 ATK EVs, or, 60% damage to every Pokemon at 252 ATK EVs, both are still 2-hit KOs, and function mostly the same (except against Pokemon that can use Leftovers/Protect to get themselves out of KO range)
There's the damage calculator online: https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ that is really useful.
Say you have a favorite Pokemon that is consistently walled by another specific Pokemon. Your poor Revavroom is getting completely down by Ferrothorn. Even though Revavroom only has a puny 54 Sp. ATK, running Overheat is a great was to 2-hit KO with zero Sp. ATK investment.
I think someone else pointed out that Greninja can do more damage to Sp.Def grass types with lower ATK EV Gunk Shot than a higher Sp.Atk EV Ice Beam.
The steps are:
1. Maximize your EVs by investing fully into either ATK or Sp.ATK
2. Identify which opponents you are still struggling to take-out
3. Is there an attack of the opposite attack-type that would be better to take out the tough opponent?
4. How much investment does it need to be viable, and, does it take away enough EVs from other stats that it handicaps the rest of the Pokemon's performance?
5. If the Pokemon can still reasonably function without things perfectly maximized, you have yourself a successful mixed-attacker.
So basically, what you're saying is that mixed attackers are an extremely situational use case.
And you'd more or less have to predict exact what your opponent is using in order to make use of it effectively.
While that's not an awful idea on paper, it sounds like it'd be extremely hard to pull of competitively.
>While that's not an awful idea on paper, it sounds like it'd be extremely hard to pull of competitively.
It is, that's why they're rare. You need a very specific kind of Pokemon to make mixed sets work out.
100% situational, yes. I don't use them often myself - it's usually to counter a tiny handful of pokemon that shut-down your primary strategy. Like a contingency plan - not Plan A, but, there to be an insurance policy of sorts.
Many mons are significantly bulkier on one side than the other, so hitting them on their weaker defense could be worthwile
Still, mixed sets sort of suck in general, and most """mixed sets""" out there are just people slapping draco meteor or overheat on their physical mon to have a one off special nuke
Defensive Kommo-o sometimes runs uninvested Flamethrower over Earthquake depending on what it needs to pressure
It made more sense back in the stat experience era but on Pokemon like Hoopa and Deoxys it generally doesn't matter since even uninvested both attacking stats are insane with the proper movepool. On normal mons with like 100/100/50 offensive stats it's dog shit tho and absolute a means if making some Pokemon bad on purpose
80 speed is slightly below average for ubers. The most typical speed tier there is 90-95
its so you can use both hoopa's psychic attacks which are special and its ghost ones which are physical 🙂
not every single decision is made with soothing the autisms of compgays in mind
It's also be pretty trash for just casual play, too. Just saying.
not really. you could wipe most games with a pokemon with nearly half the base stat total and people do.
"usable" and "not trash" aren't the same thing.
You can solo games with Whooper, are you telling me that Whooper is good?
no, but quagsire is a perfect example of a pokemon with relatively low base stats nobody would think is weird to main in any pokemon game. no need to be hyperbolic.
calling a pokemon with 600 base stat total "trash for casual play" is completely disconnected from reality
>600 base stat total
680. But, 260 of those stats are useless and will never be used. So you might as well consider it 420 base stats.
And I am fairly sure you can't even get Hoopa before you beat that game.
But that's not really even the point. The point is the draw backs to split ATK scaling.
which brings me right back around to saying GF doesn't make every decision to soothe compgay autism. you just dragged a goalpost into casual pokemon play and back out of it after it didn't taste good. maybe someone enjoys having psychic and fire punch work on their hypno. maybe someone just likes how luvdisc looks. why aren't you crying about them?
Actually, you're the one who moved goal posts and brought up casual play in the first place. You might be moronic considered you forgot what you said yourself less than 40 minutes ago.
>b- but i didn't say casual play!!! u did!!!
The only other option besides competitive play is casual play. Thus, you brought it up implicitly.
false dichotomy, I just pointed out that GF cares about things other than your autism, and then you brought up casual play. if you see the entire spectrum of pokemon as competitive play and casual play, that is severe inoperable autism. either way
>what's the reason for this?
have you considered X?
>GOALPOST MOVING GOALPOST MOVING
not only autistic, but also moronic
I love the irony of you trying to call people moronic when your brain is so low functioning you struggle to do something things like typing, so you have to dumb it down for your brain to keep up.
>false dichotomy
It's not. You clearly don't even know what that word means and are just saying random things to try and sound smart.
>if you see the entire spectrum of pokemon as competitive play and casual play, that is severe inoperable autism
There are literally no other options, you clown.
And let's be real, you came to this thread with the sole intention of being hostile and insulting people from the start because you're an impotent loser who can't stand the idea of competition because you've failed at every one of them in your life.
>You can solo games with Whooper, are you telling me that Whooper is good?
Quagsire has been an excellent in-game mon in basically every gen it has been in, so this is a terrible example.
Quagsire is better than many mons that have nearly 100 more BST.
>1 weakness
>Great STABs
>Fantastic Ability
Did I say Quagsire?
Pretty sure I didn't.
>How is high ATK and Sp.ATK not just wasted stats?
Lore reasons probably
You just have a severe case of autism. Nothing can be done with it.
>Are they expecting you to use both special and physical moves
That's how it used to be son
>campaignshitter realizes you can use both physical moves and special moves on a pokemon at the same time
>campaignshitter
What does this made up word even mean?
Based
Cringe
>campaignshitter realizes all words are made up
Ah, okay. You're mentally ill. I kind of figured as much as you joined the thread and instantly started unprovoked shitposting.
>campaignshitter projects her mental illness to others
Based
Cringe
Your life's a joke.
mixed attacking is a valid strategy in some contexts, it prevents you from getting walled
the real problem here is how terrible it is to be both slow and frail
you're basically forced to run either priority moves (most of which are unlikely to kill without setup, which you also can't do) or run focus sash
>multitroony thinks that mixed sets are less common in singleplayer than multiplayer
Gamefreak should rebalance EVs so attack and special attack are just one shared pool, where 252 maxes both. It's not like most mons wouldn't still just run negative natures in their unused stat, anyway.
They didn't so that obvious fix because the Phys/Special split wasnt about balcne, it solely exists to increase to power ceiling allowing them to make minimaxed shillmons while everything else drowns.
The split was necessary with how EVs were implemented. Anything that mostly learned physical or special types was at a greater advantage over those that had to double dip.
Another benefit to a mon having good mixed attacking stats is unpredictability. Iron Valiant is a great example, with great physical and special sets it can switch in and force a guess if you need to block a close combat or a moonblast.
This. I won tons of games with special attacking Tyranitar on Sword and Shield's ladder because people will waste turns sending in their Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp Pokemon assuming it's a physical attacker and then hitting them with shit like Ice Beam and Thunderbolt that they don't expect me to have.
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>(you) farmer thinks he isn't a homosexual for trying to farm (you)s from somebody who isn't even the same guy who originally BTFO'd him
Remember to livestream your transition from human to troony before you decide to fellate a boomstick
It's funny how obvious it is you're a redditor reject AND a Ganker reject so now you just go around on Ganker spamming buzzwords you have literally no idea what they mean and are just constantly trying to pick fights to feel validated. Because you're an impotent loser in real life who always shys away from any conflict. Because you will always lose.
Mixed attackers are op. Try a scarf