Can we just admit that Demon's Souls is the best Souls game?
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Can we just admit that Demon's Souls is the best Souls game?
Can we just admit that Demon's Souls is the best Souls game?
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
I think everyone knows that
i've always thought so too
that would be dark souls 2
3pwp
3pbp
I like it.
any blessed weapon is better than that sword lmao
>Demon's Souls
not on pc, never played it.
you didn't play souls
it is on PC, free too.
>not on pc
yes it is
give it a whirl anon, it's great
I recently played through it. Its a great game, but one of the weaker titles still.
>Shallow combat compared to later titles
>Worse Build varitety than DaS2 and Elden Ring
>Gimmick bosses lower replayability since there is zero challenge or puzzle solving to it on repeat playthroughs
>Convoluted World Tendency mechanic
>Magic is too blatantly strong, shares this problem with DaS1
>Healing system is the worst in the series, sharing this with Bloodborne, in late game i had full inventory of every grass, making everything a complete joke, estus is clearly superior and more balanced
Otherwise still a masterpiece like the other Fromsoft games.
>magic
Magic is blatantly strong in ds1, 2, and elden ring to be fair lol.
>build variety
I agree with the build variety, the game is pretty much tech demo tier anyhow.
>gimmick bosses
I feel that gimmick bosses aren't the issue. I think the archstone format makes it feel less replayable, or at least very short and repetitive. In some ways, dark souls 3 feels like the evolution or remake of demons souls.
>Magic is blatantly strong in ds1, 2, and elden ring to be fair lol.
much less strong in ds2 and elden ring. In DeS and ds1 you can just blast most things while they slowly move towards you
>ds2 magic
>not strong as FRICK
did we play the same game? DLC excepted, because they realized that magic was way too fricking strong and gave everything stupidly high magic resistances. lightning spear and hexes was all you needed to rape everything in base ds2.
It's strong but things are designed in such a way that positioning and dodging is still relevant instead of you just being able to run to the other side of the arena and blast everything before it got close to you
>you just being able to run to the other side of the arena and blast everything before it got close to you
I literally just beat the Ruin Sentinels on my mage build by doing this. Das2 does not have good bosses.
it doesn't but the point is that this won't work on everything in the game. I'm not saying magic isn't easymode, just that it doesn't make the whole game a complete joke like in des and ds1
The whole game is a complete joke regardless. I really could not believe how easy the bosses were. DeS at least has the excuse of being the first souls game and prioritizing the levels more.
Ah yes, the levels
>i have not played demon's souls I just googled maps and posted the most linear one
>nevermind the whole point of it is avoiding the dragon
1-2, 1-3, 1-4 are linear path with gates and a few side rooms
4-1 and 4-2 are the same linear corridor on a cliffside
5-1 is a linear path with some drops/ladders, 5-1 is a big circle with islands in a linear path
Only 2-1, 2-2 and 3-1 are even close to the level design of having multiple paths, shortcuts and verticality of DS1 and DS3.
DeScuck completely demolished by this.
>cherry picks the shortest level in the game that's just a set piece
And?
people disliked this? I thought it was cool how you could choose each segment whether you move above or below
Most DeS levels are vanilla DS2 tier.
DS2 levels are good
Level design wasn't an issue in most of DeS or DaS2.
It has always been muh interconnected world.
DeS magic like soul ray does the same damage at base requirements as DS2 magic at 40+ INT.
Also you can farm 99 spice and shoot it idefinately.
DS2 casting animations also consume stamina so big spells leave you with 0 stamina after 4 shots and aren't as braindead easy to spam as in DeS.
What? DS3 is a completely linear world
DeS has the 2nd highest possible combination of orders you can complete areas in after Elden Ring.
DeS is literally the most nonlinear of all the souls games that aren't a literal open world game
Combat is great, world tendency is awesome, and magic is OP in all of them and that is not some mistake but very intentional
i agree with all of your points to some extent, but imo it has the best atmosphere of any soulsborne game, and since that's really what i play these games for more than anything else, i can forgive the other shortcomings
>Gimmick bosses
Better than Elden Ring’s bosses where you just have to time dodge rolls.
Yes Demons SOuls was about using your big brain to think like an adventurer
lmao, DeS bosses have less HP than fricking Pinwheel or the Congregation, even endgame ones like Penetraror are a nothingburger
Meanwhile, the hardest boss in ER
deep down you know it was just a prototype
Just a prototype and its still one of the best
Miyazaki considers them all prototypes except for BB and ER
Miyazaki is an idiot.
Filtered
PC only neets who haven't paid for a game or console in 15 years, yet have $3,000 invested into their gaming rigs will shit on DeS and Bloodborne despite never having played them. This is of course out of pure jealousy, as they are the best games that From has produced and also the only ones I have played since I got them free as a PS5Chad
but sweatie I emulated DeS for free. From should just hurry up and port BB to other platforms anyway, ps4 had no reason to exist outside of playing that game
>emulated
You played the inferior version
>higher resolution
>higher framerate
>faster loading
>skip intro videos
>inferior
I think he's talking about the PS5 demake
No, he thinks an emulated version is somehow inferior lmao. Snoycucks are the biggest morons.
Update your solver.
>ps5
You havent played Demons Souls
You have played a dogshit amerimutt demake
DeS is free on PC, moron. Looks better and runs better too.
DaS1 is better but DeS is still great. Latria is one of the best areas in any Souls game
I'll never be able to decide which game's atmosphere I adore more. They're just amazing.
If I could compare it to the other games, it's like a mix of ds1 and 3 with a bunch of stuff that never made it into any of the other games that makes it better in some ways. It's a good game. Not perfect, but a one of a kind.
Don't know never had the chance to try it. Is it really that good? Loved dark souls.
No I won't play the PS5 demake.
>didn't play des
you haven't played souls
Its incredible. If you have a decent gaming pc, emulate it.
Has From ever matched the atmosphere of the prison of hope? Or upper latria?
>the combat though!
way too simplistic in demons souls.
>the levels though
dark souls 2 has the best levels.
yes ds2 has the best levels. its the world building that is sub par in 2.
>the music though
some of us arent tone deaf
>C-COMBAT BAD!
Are we seriously implying that the combat in these games actually evolved their combat aside from the level it takes to backstab someone? Same targeting system, same attack buttons, same strategy to almost every encounter. Sekiro is just about the only title to try and be a little different and even that pales in comparison to Nioh.
>Same targeting system, same attack buttons, same strategy to almost every encounter.
Wrong. Older Titles only had fast and strong attack. Bloodborne added L2 attacks on most transformed weapons and charged attacks (into the back to stagger an enemy).
Elden Ring added a consistent posture system and weapon skills via the ash of war system which changed the strategy from braindead r1 button mashing of the older games and DaS3 to going for posture break via charged attacks. But keep on talking about games you didnt play.
And yet it still accounts to R1 mashing. Try harder, Fromcuck
>And yet it still accounts to R1 mashing
yes if you choose to take the inferior way of playing these games, keep on doing that. not my problem.
Your own fault for playing badly
You are literally making yourself weaker by not using charged R2s, jump attacks and weapon arts in Elden Ring. R1 is objectively the worst attack you have in that game and you are impressively moronic if you didnt use the much better attacks the game gives you.
This x10.
Noobs just using R1spam is the reason why soo many bad players were complaining about ER's bosses, even starting ones like Mergit or Godrick being "huge overtuned HP sponges" that were "clearly made with mandatory spirit summons in mind"
Now you see players with starting classes and +0 weapons melt Tree Sentinel and Mergit in 60 seconds because most burst damage weapon arts do the equivalent of 4 R1s worth of damage.
>roll
>atrack
>roll
>attack
>roll
>roll
>roll
>attack
So this is peak huh...
>put up shield
>no fear of getting damage
>get hit
>no damage done
>hit
>OH SO FUN
you morons should play a different genre
Didn't have a shield, got one later.
>jumping R2
>charged R2
>weapon art
>roll
>staying close and strafing under boss atacks
Funny how you're too garbage at this game to even underatad the actions the player is performing, that's like a next level brainlet.
>Braindead L1 mashing of the okser games
T. Dex user
Anyone who uses DS3/ER as examples of "good" combat and not Sekiro are brain damaged and their opinion should be discarded
Dark Souls 1 has better level design
Demon Souls though was very enjoyable experience for me, better than DS2/DS3
>Anyone who uses DS3/ER as examples of "good" combat and not Sekiro are brain damaged and their opinion should be discarded
putting DaS3 and ER combat into the same category is very disingenious and tells me you did never bother to engage with Elden Ring combat mechanics. Nice way of outing yourself as a moron.
>never bother to engage with Elden Ring combat mechanics
Of course i am, i cheesed the game with IntFaith build(+sword of night and flame) because frick fast paced souls combat
It doesn't works. It just turns into roll-roll-roll-parry fest that feels bad to play
Even Dark Souls 1/Demon Souls have better combat because of it.
>Of course i am, i cheesed the game with IntFaith build(+sword of night and flame) because frick fast paced souls combat
good thing that Elden Ring is the slowest game since DaS2 they made. Weapons now have combos and not infinite attacks that only stop upon depleting stamina. The frequency of attacks was reduced. Enemies have more slow and delayed roll catching combos instead of fast ones.
>It doesn't works. It just turns into roll-roll-roll-parry fest
If you CHOOSE to play that way, and not optimally using positioning, then its up to you. not my problem.
>IntFaith build(+sword of night and flame)
ah so i'm arguing with someone who took the most braindead way of playing the game. No wonder all my talking is futile.
>ER
>fast paced
>DS1/DeS
>better combat
holy shit LMAO
He's right though. DS3 and ER suffered in the wake of Bloodborne because they kept adapting faster BB-style bosses even though the bosses in BB were faster because the combat in that game rewarded aggression and tighter dodges. Even the first time I fought an easy boss like Vordt felt weird after platinuming Bloodborne, like they knew they had to make their games harder but couldn't come up with new ideas so they just made everything faster.
>It just turns into roll-roll-roll-parry fest that feels bad to play
They produce jump attack iframe and guard counter.
Use it, Black person.
Jesus Christ, don’t even bother playing Nioh because you gonna get filtered like a b***h.
Introduce*
I don't want Souls games to have Nioh combat, I want them to have the tense dungeons and atmosphere DeS did.
Oh yes Elden Rings over 100 weapon arts, powerstance dual wielding and jump attacks were all in Demons Souls, how could I forget? moron.
I think DeS combat is very good but you are an idiot, Souls combat has evolved drastically, especially with Elden Ring
Any souls games combat mogs the dogshit nioh combat all day every day
DeS is the worst souls game by far because it heavily encourages braindead R1spam and rollspam due to armor sucking ass, enemies and the player not having poise and 95% of big weapons not having hyperarmor.
>IF YOU WANNA SEE SOME ACTION
>GOTTA BE THE CENTER OF ATTRACTION
This is my favourite weapon out of all the games
High vit + Second chance made trading blows with bosses become the best way to fight, as the way poise works in this game pretty much made sure Meat Cleaver's R2 can always be unbreakable.
I ran the regen build with the ring and shield
It's shit and only hipsters pretend it's better than the sequels.
most sovlful game in the series by far
Better than most Dark Souls 2 bosses, at least it actually hit the guy lol
All DS2 bosses are better than DeS bosses.
Better at being worse, sure.
DeS' best bosses like Penetrator and Allant would be starter bosses in DS2.
Pursuer is basically Penetrator 3.0 for example is has 10+ attacks compared to Penetrartor who just stabs and spins.
It's really amazing to see how much FROM boss design evolved in just 3 years.
Meanwhile endgame and DLC bosses like Veldstat, Mirror Knight, Rotten, Smelter, Sinner, Fume Knight, Alonne, Elana, Sinh are lightyears above DeS.
Dark Souls 3 was the final polishing of the formula Demon's Souls started.
>All locations feel necessary, feasible and have a reason to exist. Boletaria and Lothric feel like actual kingdoms, instead of a bunch of locations mashed together with nonsensical geography
>Firelink Shrine is The Nexus. A hub system like Demon’s Souls. Fire Keeper (火防女) is literally the Maiden in black "黒衣の火防女", with 火防女 being the same word used for firekeepers in Dark Souls
>Exact same sound for picking up items
>Lothric Castle (DaS3) == Boletaria Castle (DeS). You start the game here, and the climax of the game is here (twin princes/false king allant), complete with red-eye knights. complete with dragons hanging around
>The path to the Twin Princes is Boletaria's 1-1; path to the Phalanx. Red eye knights and blue eyes. Allant had two dragons, two dragons block the path in the dragon barracks.
>Anri and the related quest is based heavily of Ostrava of Boletaria
>Catacombs of Carthus and Smouldering Lake are challice dungeons. Underground Lava level with bugs(Stonefang, Izalith, Smouldering Lake)
>Irithyll is Cainhurst Castle. Irithyll Dungeon is extremely reminiscent of Tower of Latria Prison of Hope
>The three main lords of cinder from the opening cinematic (Aldrich, The Abyss Watchers, and Yhorm) kind of mirror Phalanx, Penetrator, and Tower Knight. After them you have the princes, mirroring the (false) king
>Auto-revival (embering) after a boss (or helping as a phantom)
>upgrade gems that work like Demon's Souls upgrade paths
>Faith giving hp regen with blessed for instance. Blessed weapons regen, there's a regen ring, Adjuticator shield/Ancient Dragon Greatshield has a regen effect, and you have a regen miracle
>End game is huge castle with many bosses as you climb to the top to fight the twin princes/king allant
>Halflight, Spear of the Church is Old Monk
Despite this, I simply don't like DS3 and my perception of it has only declined with time. Perhaps that's to be expected, considering that my main criticism of the game is that it doesn't have its own idenity. It's a mish-mash of other Souls games' mechanics and design, including Bloodborne, that feels like it's less than sum of its parts.
>Demake
you did not play Demon's Souls
Both versions are garbage and both have the same gameplay.
>same gameplay
wrong
Literally has the same gameplay mechanics and the same bugs with only a handfull of the truly broken shit like infinite damage auras patched out.
That's why PvP and coop died in as month while DS3, DS2 and evem DS1 still have 8K, 5K and 4K players on steam every day for the last 6+ years.
The thing with demon souls was that it was much more experimental, there was a lot of things thrown in for better or worse that made it special.
Dark Souls is much more of a generic action game. It took the mass appeal parts of DeS and focused on that while polishing away all the parts that made it unique in exchange for the generic action.
I'd point to atmosphere and world design, but that's admittedly subjective and hard to prove.
So instead I'll point to bosses as a primary example, bosses in DeS were rarely hard, the flame lurker and man eaters were contrasted heavily with things like phalanx and the guy with a birdcage on his head. They were thematic representations rather than challenges.
In DaS and later games it turned into a boss centric design where the level was just leading up to a hardcore bossfight that often had little to nothing to do with the preceding level or overall world.
DS2 was more experimental and had more unique boss gimmicks while still being straight up fights if you never discover said gimmicks.
Making these gimmicks optional or skill based ones instead of simplistic secrets that just instantkill the boss once you know it was the best evolution of DeS' ideas.
>Pursuer's arena has the bastilas, you can get gud and parry him for an easy kill, you can frick it up and he'll break them. Also you can use them in COOP and even troll hosts/phantoms and kill them with it. That's soul.
>Dragonriders has the raising platforms as his default arena is insanely small and any hit will push you off. Raising one or both makes the fight easier but raising none lets you cheese him into falling off if you know how to bait him.
>Flexile's arena has water slowly fills the room, slows you down, increases his fire def by 50% but it also decreases lightning def by 50% so you can make use of the gold pine resin you find in the Wharf.
>Sinner's lamps helping lock on distance and Freja spiders being afraid of torches.
>Chariot's whole gauntlet phase 1 with skeletons + necros then a horse fight in phase 2. Imagine if he was 100% gimmick and he died instantly when you pull the lever like Dragon God.
>Rat Vanguard being pretty much a better version of Pinwheel that can actually kill you because petrification.
Also better designed because the boss spawns in after 10 rat kills so you don't just walk in, lock on to the real boss and ignore the clones like you can with Pinwheel.
>Mirror Knight and NPC/Player Summons.
>Avaa being invisible till you get the eye but 100% fightable if you're familiar enough with her moves. A lesser game would've just made the boss invincible to force you to do it like they wanted.
>Ivory King and the first phase with the Knights and oblivion gates and how you have to do at least some of the level to gey ally knights.
>Dark Souls
>generic action game
It has been quite something watching contrarian revisionism get further and further out of hand as the years pass since Dark Souls' release. People don't remember what games were actually like in 2011. The only thing resembling Dark Souls' mechanics and difficulty at that time was Monster Hunter, which was and is a progressive boss rush. Even a decade later, there are few games that actually feel like Dark Souls that aren't made by FromSoft, despite the proliferation of knock-offs like LotF, The Surge, Lies of P, etc. Dark Souls is anything but generic, and claiming otherwise is just dishonest at best and moronic at worst.
Most of these "DS1/DeS was better" threads are made by discord trannies trying to pull a "the true OG Fromsoft fans hate DS3 / BB / ER / AC6", it's obvious because they never talk about what game mecanics were better in the older titles and just spam "SOVL".
>In DaS and later games it turned into a boss centric design where the level was just leading up to a hardcore bossfight that often had little to nothing to do with the preceding level or overall world.
Later games? Sure. DS1? Not really. Stuff like Moonlight Butterfly, Gaping Dragon, Ceaseless Discharge (especially the one hit kill method), Priscilla, Gwindolyn still has puzzle-like kind of fight approach similar to DeS. It's literally the only game in the series that still carries that spirit, while also adding more Flame Lurker and Man Eater kind of bosses. DeS puzzle fight can be satisfying to figure out (Adjudicator) or just plain fricking pathetic (Dragon God and Maiden Astarea)
>rewarded for using a strategy instead of being tragically punished for not conforming to the generic roll roll hit strategy that has plagued 90% of most modern souls bosses
lol
Nice meme but DeS is the most rollspam and R1 spam friendly game in the souls series thanks to enemies not having hyperarmor and heavy armor being garbage and not having any poise either.
DS3 and ER actually heavily punish continious rollspam with delayed boss combos and mashing R1 in ER is by far the lowst DPS you can do with 95% of weapons.
>input reading its good
fricking blind fanboy
fixed multi hit combos that are always the same length are not input reading
but the fact that you think they're input reading or that the bosses cheat clear proof that you cannot handle anything above the static blob bosses of DeS
do better
explain why input reading is bad without buzzwords
nta but more often than not input reading doesn't actually incentivize a greater level of skill, but instead feels like a cheap way for the boss to get a free hit in. Input reading in FromSoft games is usually used to punish an action the game knows you can't react in time if an attack reaches, regardless of how well you spaced or timed it, and even if you would have been able to react in time when the boss reads your input and attacks, it's specifically times on their end to be done when your character cannot make up for it.
tl;dr input reading takes advantage of character vulnerability for a cheap shot regardless of how well you yourself would have actually been able to react to the attack. Things like healing tend to be punished even if you spaced it out in a way that should have been kosher for that boss otherwise.
>nta but more often than not input reading doesn't actually incentivize a greater level of skill
yes, it does. Because it makes healing an action that takes some deliberation instead of just "run away to the other side of the arena and and heal for free"
>feels like a cheap way for the boss to get a free hit in
The game has plenty of cheap things you can't possibly react to the first time you see them. For the input reading heal punish moves, you shouldn't get hit by them more than twice, after which you know you need to find a better window to heal.
>Things like healing tend to be punished even if you spaced it out in a way that should have been kosher for that boss otherwise.
which is a good thing for the reason I already mentioned. Heal punish moves enable the designers to ask you to think about your actions without needing to do needlessly restrictive things like making every boss arena tiny or giving every boss insane gap closing moves.
Complaining about "cheap shots" in a fromsoft game is truly fricking moronic.
>DS3 and ER actually heavily punish continious rollspam with delayed boss combos and mashing R1 in ER is by far the lowst DPS you can do with 95% of weapons.
Learning different patterns to properly rollspam is still rollspamming, and you truly believe adding a generic special attack to weapons is an evolution of the combat formula, then you're truly too far gone to be taken seriously.
DeS, DaS3 and Elden Ring all play the same mechanically with the latter 2 only differing in higher quality animations, while suffering on just about every other level that matters.
You can't rollspam in Elden Ring
Only in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 because the enemies can't punish multiple consecutive panic rolls.
The frames are the same. In ER you can roll more which makes roll spamming better. There is nothing to argue.
>In ER you can roll more which makes roll spamming better.
It doesn't because most enemies have rollcatch moves. See the webm he posted. the correct way to counter that attack is to not roll at all. Yes, you can spam roll or try to time it in such a way that you iframe through it but that's just moronic. Just because you can put a round peg in the square hole doesn't mean you should.
>the correct way to counter that attack is to not roll at all
???
You're supposed to run behind him to make him completely miss. Do you really need me to boot up the game and show you how moronic you are?
Or you know just press roll at the right time because it makes you immune to everything including grabs in this game unless the grab has long enough active duration which they don't have.
>make the game more difficult for yourself by only using one strategy
>complain that there's only one strategy
based moron
I don't think that it makes the game more difficult. If anything it makes it too simple that roll is the answer to everything. Enemy leaps to the air and comes down smashing? Oh yea uhh let me just stand right here and roll into them to avoid the hit.
>If anything it makes it too simple that roll is the answer to everything. Enemy leaps to the air and comes down smashing? Oh yea uhh let me just stand right here
moron
Roll still works against all of that.
>I can play inefficiently and still scrape by
ok but why would you
Because the game never demands anything more from me. And quickstep is basically just roll but with even more generous iframes.
>i will refuse to learn how to play the game unless the game holds my hand and tells me what to do
some people like to get better at games for the sake of getting better but I know that's hard to imagine for a shitskin.
Literally not what he said. As contrarian as it sounds, the games are so easy that complex movements and delving into additional options will always be fruitless in an average playthrough, where simply dodge rolling and spamming R1 with an upgraded weapon will provide instantaneous results with no effort needed.
>the games are so easy that complex movements and delving into additional options will always be fruitless in an average playthrough, where simply dodge rolling and spamming R1 with an upgraded weapon will provide instantaneous results with no effort needed.
You can apply the same logic to magic.
I never said it wasn't.
It doesn't matter if it's shit damage, it's good enough damage that will get you past the fight. Can you invest into a sequence-broken art of war that will quite literally double your damage output? Of course. Will the game demand that from you? Absolutely not.
Weapon arts literally do x4 damage + huge posture break allowing for a bunch of extra riposte hits.
Mergit with a +0 longsword and R1s only will take 5-6 mins, while Mergit with a +0 longsword using face-off and thrusting will take 2-3 mins.
This is why garbage button mashers went with katana bleed builds, because status effects were one of the few things that made R1spam viable.
Then later on then got to a bunch of bosses that couldn't be bled or frozen and they compained the game is chearing, lmao.
Again, the game will never call for you to get that invested in its combat. On one hand it is cool you can get that powerful by maintaining a build, but again the series will never expect more from you than just the simple R1 spam, and no that was never even factoring in status like bleed or frost.
Are you dumb or just pretending?
Doing half damage is a massive nerf for the player because you have to spend twice as much time fighting the boss and dodging or perfectly blocking his attacks, gradually losing heals and dying.
By your logic, fist only on Fire Giant (takes 5 real time hours, some dude did it) is the same as doing it with regular damage because you can just "roll and never get hit".
Fricking LMAO.
You're comparing doing 600+ per swing on a relatively upgraded weapon to fighting with your fists. You're severely downplaying how easy this game is.
You're still wrong because Elden Ring is actually about jumping r2 spam thank you very much. Shield counterattacks, parrying, r1, ashes of war and even jumping as a dodge are all basically gimmicks, staggermaxxing and dodge rolls are the way to go.
Jump attacks do 1/3 the stagger of an R2 or guard counter of the same weapon.
They're great for when you need a really fast punish because you think the boss is 90% posture broken but you're far better off learing when you can get in close to time a nice thick R2.
charged r2s are good too but a little slow. I avoid shields because I dont want to learn what attacks are unblockable and not.
Besides grabs and attacks that come from above like lightning strikes or the Fire Giant plate smashes, no attacks are unblockable.
With a big shield, a bunch of enemies and even some minibosses will get stunned attacking it if they're not doing 2H attacks.
Shields are insanely good, you just gotta commit and use big ones for big results.
That's false because R1s do shit damage.
Then play a game that is built around that. I have 500 hours in DMC 5 because it actually allows you to experiment and push your own limits. Souls games are mechanically so easy that there is never enough room for self expression. And I tried. I even played the game without HUD I had some cringe ass Vergil cosplay build and I would switch between my weapons to be able to use more than just one weapon art. I modded the game to run at faster speed with modded parry and other shenanigans. But it was still just so fricking bad. Point being that this game fails at both challenge and freedom which then leaves a lot to be desired.
you can effortlessly beat DMC5 without ever getting good at the combat, why would you put 500 hours into it?
The first sentence of my reply.
>the game is built around it
but I can beat the game while ignoring all of the complexity?
>needing a score system to tell you when you're playing well
there's no hope for you, truly
What part of being built do you not understand? DMC is easy to beat because it isn't designed around "lol can you beat it" unlike Souls games are. It is designed around okay you beat it now have fun.
>it isn't designed around "lol can you beat it" unlike Souls games are
isn't it? why would I care about anything other than completing the game?
>It is designed around okay you beat it now have fun.
elden ring is also designed like this, by having most bosses be so complex that you won't master them the first time around. This is also why you fight some of them multiple times
You literally change your point all the time (if you're the same person). Why not this? That? And a boss like erdtree avatar has THREE MOVES and you fight it 10 times I don't think it takes that long to learn. If that was the point they would make you fight shit like Malenia and Morgot blood version for multiple times but nah you fight them once and then you can never fight them again unless you play through the whole open world meme again.....
>You literally change your point all the time (if you're the same person)
my point this entire time has been that "I can beat the game doing x so nothing else matters" is totally moronic. If you're playing a difficult game you should strive to master it without the game holding your hand and telling you to do so.
>like erdtree avatar has THREE MOVES and you fight it 10 times
This is an exception, not the rule.
>nah you fight them once and then you can never fight them again
You fight margit/morgott 3 times. malenia is so hard that by the time you beat her you'd have probably mastered her moveset.
I don't spam circle and R1 because I actually learned to play the game properly. It's fun, you should try it.
>I don't spam circle and R1 because I actually learned to play the game properly. It's fun, you should try it.
Buy you're self admitting to spamming single moves in DMC, most likely since you're shit.
No? Are you really so moronic you can't grasp a simple analogy? If I played DmC I would learn to play the game properly, just as I did in elden ring and I certainly wouldn't be going into dmc threads complaining the game is shit because you can spam 1 move. And yet here you are, going into threads for games you clearly hate, doing the same thing.
I actually love the games, I just wish they did more, because they absolutely don't. Most of the shut people list is unnecessary, and no going from R2 power attacks to L2 special attacks with varying degrees of animation wind ups isn't a good progression for the series, nor is it ever justifiable to compare it to something actually complex and demanding like a character action game, like DMC.
Of course I get why that is, because Souls games are doing so much more outside of combat, but those extras continue to drastically diminish with each new entry, and replacing properly interconnected worlds, great level design and atmosphere with what are basically melee spells isn't good for the franchise.
>no going from R2 power attacks to L2 special attacks with varying degrees of animation wind ups isn't a good progression for the series, nor is it ever justifiable to compare it to something actually complex and demanding like a character action game, like DMC.
because these games deliberately keep the player moveset simple while making the enemies more complex. In DMC, you're mastering your own moveset. In ER, you're mastering the enemy moveset. Compare anything from DS1 to the average boss in elden ring and there's a stark difference in how fast, varied and complex the bosses are.
you're too moronic to comprehend this because you think every action game needs to be dmc. It doesn't.
Not that anon but being able to just roll everything makes this mastering bosses feel very boring. And on top of that you cannot re-fight bosses so it's not like you can even learn anything unless you are autist who spends 1k+ hours into a game where you spend most of the time just riding a horse.
>being able to just roll everything makes this mastering bosses feel very boring
you can also play the game properly and have more fun
Properly as in try out new things that takes forever because it's open world rpg hybrid? Even restarting a boss takes close to a minute. And when you kill it it's GONE. GOOOOOOONE.
>Even restarting a boss takes close to a minute.
This hasn't been true since dark souls 2, There is always a checkpoint right outside every fogwall.
Yea but ok let me just try this other build and weapon art which I get by watching horse ass for another 10 hours.
Finally you're getting it. The bosses in Souls games are there to benchmark your build.
As the other anon stated, no bosses aren't any more or less complex as a whole compared to DaS1, with most only having 3-4 moves total, and the exceptions like Margit, Malenig and Mohg being an extremely small exception compare to the rest of the package.
This also heavily downplays bosses in DMC titles that have various moves, various timings you need to account for with dodging, jumping or royal guarding, their own stun triggers, and in many cases even have their own arena taken into consideration for the fights.
>no bosses aren't any more or less complex as a whole compared to DaS1
The tree sentinel, a throwaway boss at the very start of the game has a more complex moveset than anything in ds1. If you're too stupid to understand this I can't help you.
>try out new things that takes forever because it's open world rpg hybrid?
it will literally take less time to fight the bosses properly instead of attempting to roll through everything, no idea what the open world has to do with anything. You're literally playing the game wrong, getting punished for it and complaining the game is too shallow.
>boss countering my rollspam with delayed combos that mix fast and slow attacks
>Should I try blocking the fast hits and rolling the big slow as frick ones?
>Should I try parrying the slower, exagerated and obvious strikes?
>Should I use weapon arts and guard counters to posture break the boss out of a combo?
>Nah, I just need to spam more rolls.
>no bosses aren't any more or less complex as a whole compared to DaS1, with most only having 3-4 moves total, and the exceptions like Margit, Malenig and Mohg being an extremely small exception
Play the fricking game, you lying homosexual.
>Crucible knight
>Red Wolf of Radagon
>Leonine Misbegotten
>Royal Knight Loretta
>Elemer of the Briar
and I can go on.
>moving goalpost again
If you just want to discuss about the world design, go for it instead of crying about R1 spam after everyone proved your wrong, DMCuck.
He was trying to make a point about the whole spamming move that you complain about in Elden Ring, you fricking sperg.
Isn't not exception lol. You also fight those stupid erdtree worms that have 3 moves too. Horses. Tons of regular enemies have "boss version" in some random ass dungeon where they just get boss hp bar. Night cavalry wolf rider guy. Gargoyles. Dragons. Tibia mariner. Most of these enemies have close to no moves.... And you don't fight margitmorgot 3 times. It's a different boss every time with one or two moves borrowed.
yes, there are filler bosses in the game. That doesn't negate the majority which are good.
>And you don't fight margitmorgot 3 times. It's a different boss every time with one or two moves borrowed.
You fight margitt twice. Morgott is margitt with more moves.
You'll have a shit score that indicates you aren't good at the game. You can beat DMD but get nonstop B ranks which indicates you aren't good at the game. Meanwhile I can mash circle and R1 against Malenia and have reddit praise me as a gaming champion despite putting almost no effort into the game.
Leave it to. Fromtard to be against scoring systems though.
if you need a number to go up to want to master a complex system then you're legitimately subhuman. You're on the same level as a dog doing tricks because it knows it'll get food in exchange.
This is the same person that will praise their trash because they spammed circle and R1 for 40 hours every few years for $60 lmfao.
>Complained that the game has R1 spam
>Anons proved him otherwise
>"He he he you R1 spammer" even though anons showed him multiple clips of people not spamming R1
You already lost. Just accept the L from that anon and don't embarrass yourself further.
I find it funny that you complain about the lack of the ranking system while ignoring an another ARPG that Itsuno made that also doesn't have a ranking system.
If you're spamming 1 move in DMC but a fricking Souls game of all games is the avenue where you try and spice things up, then you're probably shit at video games.
>missing the point completely
you are legitimately 75iq
>>I can play inefficiently
Anything but summoning ashes and using an OP weapon or spell is inefficient
>and still scrape by
You can comfortably beat every boss by rolling
you can also beat the DMC games by just mashing buttons, does that mean their combat is shit?
Comparing Elden Ring to DMC is like comparing instrument with 3 keys to one with a hundred.
Not really, the complexity is just on the enemy side instead of the player side. DMC is more complex but that wasn't the point of the analogy you fricking moron
ER has about 20 keys/attack options, not 100.
DMC has a score system that doesn't reward repetition. Elden Ring doesn't.
>He needs a scoring system for repetition
sprinting in and out of range of the boss also works
Guess ER and DS3 are sprintspam games now.
Rolling in Elden Ring is the weakest defensive option that you can ever use, to compensate for its versatility. This is far more nuanced than Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Dark Souls 2 where rolling is optimal because bosses are very slow and don't punish rollspam, sothe recovery tied to your rolls wasn't enough to discourage rollspamming.
A lot of options were buffed too, like parrying which was essentially unusable or useless for most enemies with them recovering as fast as you did
>which makes roll spamming better.
Try playing the game first before saying shit like this.
The AI deliberately read your roll spamming and punish you pretty hard for it. Radagon is a perfect example of Anti-rolling
The AI at no point "reads your rolls". Some of them do read your attack and item/spell use inputs to extend their current strings but no rolling.
Nope, you can't rollspam in Elden Ring, only in Dark Souls 2, 1 and Demon's Souls, because the enemies can't counter you at all
Whatever happens in this webm you can do in Elden Ring too. Especially with the open world having so much empty space. https://youtu.be/ndqJqQGCUfE?t=1815
Nope, you can't. There's enemies specifically designed to frick Torrent up too
Elden Ring filtered a massive chunk of shitters that latched to the Souls fanbase alongside the newbies that weren't willing to use summoning, the kind of homosexuals that see nothing wrong with compulsive Bloodborne dashspamming and r1 sidesteps
You have a funny definition of rollspam if that video is meant to be an example
>rollspamming
if you're rollspamming you're playing the game wrong.
>you truly believe adding a generic special attack to weapons is an evolution of the combat formula
It is, because most of the special attacks serve more than one purpose, making them mechanically interesting beyond "use mana for moar damage"
>DeS, DaS3 and Elden Ring all play the same mechanically
you haven't played these games or have some severe mental deficiency that impairs your ability to recognize patterns if you really believe this. sharing some fundamental mechanics doesn't mean they play the same.
>if you're rollspamming you're playing the game wrong
If you're consecutively rolling to dodge consecutive attacks, since for the most basic example Margit has long range, really good tracking and spellblade attacks to bypass every early shield option, where your only option is to consecutively roll, that's rollspam combat. Feel free to argue semantics on the word "spam" but every boss since 2 has been designed in such a heavily similar manner.
>because most of the special attacks serve more than one purpose, making them mechanically interesting beyond "use mana for moar damage"
Don't kid yourself, most specials are exactly that, and the few exceptions like BHS, sidestep and rallying standard are just that; exceptions. Everything else is either an upgraded power attack that costs mana, or an upgraded parry that costs mana.
>sharing some fundamental mechanics doesn't mean they play the same
They do, and you've yet to explain why other than mana-costing special attacks that don't change how you engage targets.
>spellblade attacks to bypass every early shield option,
?si=B_5v3nEAyI6I5ep5
It's really funny you could put this side by side a DeS fight and the only difference is the guard counter lmao
Yeah, but morons play it like DS3 and then complained that it's shit while praising DeS combat.
Genuine skill issue moment.
Yeah which is my point. I've been playing the same royalty character with a high block shield in the same way for the past 15 years, and while the familiarity is nice, there's been nothing to really change how the core of these games work. I'm fighting the same Artorias and Manus skeletons for over a decade with level design getting worse, dialogue growing more lazy, and everyone championing the franchise as boss gauntlets rather than completed, full package adventures.
>and everyone championing the franchise as boss gauntlets
That only happened to Dark Souls 1 and 3. In every other entry the bosses are just a part of the package, evident by what those games define as a boss.
Given all but 1 webm itt are of boss fights, I highly doubt that.
Nobody makes webms of exploration or listening to dialogues you know. That's not really related to what games are being perceived at.
>you could put this side by side a DeS fight
you couldn't, because you can't parry bosses in DeS
Guard counters have immense depth and Fromsoftware managed to make guarding gameplay radically different from dodging
>Will my own weapon counter attack be faster than what next attack the opponent does in the combo, depending on the animation he is doing now?
>If not, do I have enough hyperarmor, defense and health to tank it? Is it worth it? Will my weapon lower my hurtbox under his sweeping attack? Or did I hit him enough and I can try for a stagger?
While every other developer would have made it a press the block button at the right time, Fromsoftware managed to make blocking actually interesting and unique in terms of gameplay skills/knowledge
>Will my own weapon counter attack be faster than what next attack the opponent does in the combo, depending on the animation he is doing now?
99% of the time the answer is no
It's all about the right moment
>since for the most basic example Margit has long range, really good tracking and spellblade attacks to bypass every early shield option, where your only option is to consecutively roll, that's rollspam combat.
absolutely fricking wrong. watch this morgott kill and observe how many attacks he's not rolling through and even when he is rolling, the direction of his roll is as important as the iframes for extra damage windows.
?t=101
And this is on a character not using a shield which gives you additional options.
>Don't kid yourself, most specials are exactly that
No, they aren't. You're just too moronic to use them correctly. Most of them have some kind of repositioning, a crouch or a jump associated with them. This means you can use them to dodge and deal damage at the same time if you know what you're doing. If you didn't figure this out then I fully believe you just rollspammed through everything.
> and you've yet to explain why
The reason why is because the enemies and especially bosses are much more complex, requiring different types of approaches and dodging. The fact that you think the game sharing movesets makes them play the same just exposes you as a brainlet who played the game wrong.
>see an attack that you either have to time perfectly or simply use positioning to avoid it
>hurr let me bang my head against the wall the game is too simple
unfathomably based
?t=101
>roll
>roll
>hug his back like rat authority
>spam mana costing power attacks
>continues rolling
Wow you really proved me wrong
if you're too moronic to see things directly in front of you then I can't help you.
Meanwhile
?si=96TXCZljmHHP07nz
>Ongbal
Genuinely can't take him seriously after he use pile bunker + lancer + zimmer on fricking Ibis.
ER is by far the most anti rollspam game in the series with shields being insanely good via guard counters and posture breaks.
And guard counrers do as much posture damage as a fully charged R2, but swings without a huge 3 sec wind-up.
Even in DS3 you can block most attacks and play that way, you just need to use a good greatshield.
The fact that nu-fans of the series used starting medium shields vs one or 2 bosess and concluded that all shields are worthless is a literal bottom of the barrel brainlet take.
this mentally ill autist is in literally every single souls thread spamming the same webms over and over, jesus fricking christ get help dude
soulsgays on Ganker are excessively autistic for some reason
I kinda wish I lived there-- just without all the demons.
It's the purest souls game, it's the most ambitious and is unaffected by community whining with its terrible taste for balance that guts everything fun and only the most cancerous shit remains.
Ah yes, the 99+99+99+99+99 heal system.
For the real hardcore fans.
Yeah, it's definitely one of a kind. Some bosses aren't exactly bosses, a lot of them feels more like part of the stage, another terrain/obstacle that you need to figure out and solve. DS1 kinda carries its spirits in some places, but by DS3 it's almost unrecognizable, almost like a completely different series.
demons souls was like the level is the boss. dark souls 1 veers away from that, and then that whole feeling completely gone by the time we hit elden ring.
DS3 has by far the most DeS like levels and gimmck bosses as well as heavily rewarding fast play with hyperarmor instead of passive casual poise.
DS3 was pitched as a DeS soft reboot, I believe, but it was so mangled by the end of its development that I don't know what it was supposed to be. It feels like an abomination, even if it's a competent game.
Wasn't the story supposed to be this whole dark lord what if kaathe ending thing? Gameplay-wise it feels like demons souls 2.0, but the final product is this weird borderline nonsensical mess that somehow still is a good game.
>DS3 has by far the most DeS like levels and gimmck bosses
examples?
>can we just admit-
Is there a gaygier way of making a point? Even if I agree with you I don't want to engage
Demon's Souls with no HUD is beyond kino. It's still easy enough that you don't really need the display.
Level design good. Atmosphere good. Music good. But none of that fixes how long it takes to get a build going in it relative to other Souls games, between the placement of specific weapons and the horrible upgrade trees. It's almost a necessity to go into NG+ if you want to play through the full game with a nonstandard build, and ain't nobody got time for that.
How? with the way the game is set up you can get whatever weapon you want pretty quickly what sort of build do you have in mind that takes a long time to set up?
The game's so short that clearing anything other than 1-1 and 1-2 feels a bit like you're beginning to lose out on content. At least, that's how I feel.
>Large sword of moonlight
You have to clear 5-1, one of the most challenging and complex levels in the game.
>Hiltless
You have to clear 4-1 and most of 4-2, again two of the more involved levels in the game.
>Meat cleaver
You have to clear 4-1, 2-1, and 2-2 to be able to forge it. And then there's all the weapons linked to world tendency, of course. Whenever I go through the effort of getting a weapon that isn't something sold by the dregling merchant or one of the ones lying around in the X-1s, I find that the game's over in a few hours. At least there's always 1-3, I guess. But then I go to NG+ and I lose the motivation to continue playing because progression is always less structured in NG, no matter the Souls game. It's a double-edged sword.
It's good but ONLY if we're talking about the original. The demake is shit and they couldn't even be bothered to restore cut content like the 6th archstone. Shitty cashgrab.
It has a strong soul but it's not a great game. DaS far surpasses it.
Souls slop is still souls slop.
>literal moron
they literally made the blue guy a Black person. uninstalled.
dude he's still blue you moron
he was black in the original though?
No he wasn't, who are you a fricking bluepoint employee? Did you legitimately think he was black, are you bluepoint morons actually blind?
Holy frick you actually think that's a black person you moron?
He's got the nose of a Black but not the tone
The original on the PS3 is, the PS5 version is probably the worst.
It's definitely the most comfy.
>custom animations for low health state
>different idle animation when you open the menu
>ready animation for locked on targets
>an actual turn-around animation instead of sliding across the floor
>3d ripple when using the bonfire instead of ugly 2d fog covering the screen
>widest variety of monsters and locations
>different animations when npcs are speaking to your character
>powerstancing
>most open level design
>unique pvp areas
>stamina regen based on weight
>bonfire ascetics
>some enemies actually follow you up and down ladders and will try to kick you off
>special enemies that are afraid of light
>animation canceling for certain weapons
>dual wielding gives you the full moveset of both weapons
>coolest looking armor sets
>best graphics mod
It had the most soul by far. But it's 'bad' because you can't do a 180 degree turn out of a roll and stab the bosses in the ass.
When will they add level select back to their games? Sequence breaking was the best aspect of ER and they should combine it with DeS' level select and allow players to just skip bosses and levels for subsequent playthroughs.
Why did they never bring back the light gem on your character's hip in subsequent games?
anti-fashion
I agree with pretty much all of the flaws pointed out already, but there's something that's really hard to articulate about Demon's Souls that it just does better than all the rest. "Atmosphere" isn't quite right but it's close. There's a weird feeling I get in my stomach when I play it. I feel more, idk, in a hostile inhabitable land in it than I do in the rest. It all feels more alien in a way, like how Source fan and indie games can. It's like you're in The Zone or something and you're fricking trapped there, even if you can bail out to the Nexus (which itself feels unwelcoming and cold) at any time.
Part of it is the story, but I think the sort of jankiness and ugly, plasticy, bloomy rendering had a lot to do with it too. That and how convoluted to the degree of being badly designed it is. Just getting to Executioner Miralda's little area was an esoteric riddle, teasing me by being jusy beyond a barely impassable wall.
There'll never be another game like it.
Yurt's "questline" is really interesting as it's basically you releasing a mass murderer and letting him go on a rampage. I wonder if Formsoft dare to put something similar that can frick you over like that in a newer game.
Lautrec in DS1
Navlann in DS2
Suspicious Beggar in BB
Lautrec is clearly the parallel to Yurt but what he would do isn't even that terrible. You lost 1 bonfire and not even permanently while Yurt can pretty much cut off your access to magic, miracles and Patches (sells the best recovery items)
I forgot about Navlaan, was it the wizard that asks you to kill other NPCs? I guess that's a good one, but I think you have alternate ways to complete his questline right?
I don't know about the BB one
The begger would have been perfect if people couldn't get rid of him by sending him to the ayy clinic, savvy players that suspect him and try to kill him get treated to a fun surprise when he transforms into a tough monster and rips them to shreds, I love his lines.
>HAVE YOU GOT A SCREW LOOSE? OR IS IT YOUR... ANIMAL INTUITION?
you forgot dung eater
They wouldn't dare do anything like Yurt ever again, he is a character that can be detrimental to your playthrough with not a single benefit to letting him have his way. Not only would from not allow players to get fricked up so badly anymore there would be a million messages everywhere in and out of the game warning you about him.
Of course. Can't compete with the original.
>No build variety
>Levels are all small and short
>Level design is extremely linear
>Bosses are mostly gimmick garbage
>No poise, dude in full armor needs to roll to avoid damage
>>No build variety
wrong
are all small and short
good
design is extremely linear
good
are mostly gimmick garbage
You mean every boss is a unique encounter instead of just being guy with sword circle strafe
>>No poise, dude in full armor needs to roll to avoid damage
there's heavier armor than the fluted set you moron
No armor in DeS has any poise nor hyperamor buffs like DS3 and the extra damage negation is fricking nothing. And most mid size to big weapons also don't have any hyperaror except the bone amasher and the meat cleaver.
Either you're lightrolling with a fast weapon to stunlock enemies, or you're getting stunlocked yourself by every fricking dreadling with a shiv.
The constant stunlocks were soo bad that they massively overcorrected in DS1 and made poise to strong once you pass certain threasholds.
Demon's is charming due to all the weird shit only it has but I can't see it being the best when pretty much every game after is better in most ways.
It's the worst one easily, it has only Internet clout going for it.
Anyway Elden Ring pretty much made them all obsolete by being the 10/10 evolution of the concept that propelled the genre forward. You can tell Elden Ring is Dark Souls 3 if Bandai Namco had let Miyazaki work for a full dev cycle instead of months after BB release
damng... you hit that guy three times... then you got hit twice and did a counterattack..... holy fucj...
Fricking love guard counter with the greatsword
I still respect DeS because it was the first one and got so many fundamentals right, even though the details and balance were a mess.
That being said, it's the obnoxious and contraian hipster fans that champion it as "the only good souls game before FROM sold out to casuals" that absolutely put me off from wanting to interact with it anymore.
Yeah
Rollspam bros, how is this possible?
Rollspaming was suposed to be guaranteed easymode.
>low t. didn't have carthus cumring
easily. i played it after i first played DaS1 so it's not like i've even got huge nostalgia for it
It's better than DS1 but it's not the best Souls game at all
Atmosphere is nothing special to begin with, aside from Latria of course.
Remake is just as good as the original but for different reasons btw
played them both back to back this year
Would you?
>way too easy
>no connection between worlds
no
Ganker is genuinely too dumb for Elden Ring.
Blocking and countering with a solid shield is a way easier play style compared to roliling on a bunch of bosses.
However you will need to use more buttons than just R1 and circle, and aparently that's just too much for DeS and DS1 fans.
don't need to. i've been saying it was from the start.
Reminder Sony were planning to buy Fromsoft but after the head of PlayStation at the time saw Demon's Souls gameplay he thought the game will be a huge flop and they decided against the purchase
the way shuhei yoshida shat on the original game is unreal
>完成間近の段階でDemon’s Soulsを2時間ほどプレーしたが、2時間後にもプレーを開始した時と全く同じ場所に立ったままだった。
>「これは駄目だ。信じられないほど酷いゲームだ」と感じて、プレーを止めてしまったよ。
>I played an almost finalized version of the game for about 2 hours, but 2 hours after having started playing I was still standing there at the same location.
>"This is terrible. It's an incredibly awful game.", I thought to myself, and stopped playing.
then he ended up regretting it
>Demon’s Soulsの欧米販売を見送ったのは今世代最大の失態だった
>missing out on publishing Demon's Souls in the US and Europe was our biggest mistake ever this gen
yes
why is there some kind of exepection of playing these games a certain way? I see people being told they didn't "beat the game" if they used magic, summoned, used high poise or health to tank, etc. These are all playstyles the devs put in the game with the intention to be used. Why is only rolling around and using a melee weapon valid? I'm done sword and board plenty of times and greatsword but I just see those as two builds among many.
The combat in all these games is good. Fromsoft just keeps getting in an arms race of difficulty with the fans and mindlessly making every new game harder which fricks the balance.
I understand people who think this, but not for me. The way not being able to teleport anywhere (until Lordvessel ruins the game) impacts the atmosphere of isolation in the first Dark Souls is so good that even with all the cool and innovative stuff Demon's Souls did, it can't compete.
>it's another DMCgay seething at ER episode.
Every fricking time.
Bloodborne > Lies of P > Elden Ring > Sekiro > Dark Souls > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls 2 and 3
The greatshield class in ER has more gameplay and build options than all of DeS weapons combined.
Contraian nostalgiagays will seethe at this.
>still has the best UGS moveset
It's bino
It's the first souls game I played and Bloodborne it's infinitely better.
Why can't I see a webm of that moron rolling around outside of Boletaria in this thread?
It's def better than DS1
They should have named the swamp blightown, it's a far better blightown than the one wee got in DS1
>Linear flat garbage with pointless patches of empty swamp area
>good
An actual town instead of a wall that you jump down in one go and never actually deal with. Also the fact that there isn't even building-like structures in blightown unlike the demon souls version.
Demon souls did it far better, it was an actual town and you have to navigate it to get through. Blightown in dark souls is a rubbish zone, one of the worst in the whole series.
It's literally the same scalfolding near a cliff design, you moron.
Ok but it's also literally not, you moron.
The frick are you on?
Swamp of Sorrow is a place where humans can live, Blighttown is just are video game challenge gauntlet.
The upper parts of the Valley of the Defilement is way better than Blighttown's, I agree.
First time entering Blighttown while I found the enemies and toxic annoying the biggest annoyance were the fricking ground and where can I stand and where I can't. Visually it's so fricking bad.
For the swamp part, Blighttown wins, cause it's not just a ridiculously wide swamp with bunch of crap spread around it for no reason.
I agree, the swamp in Valley of Defilement is pretty horrible, it stretches for a very long time. I remember it being a slog once I got to that point.
>bunch of crap spread around it for no reason
you build your shit where it won't sink
It's really not and this is someone whose played all of them. It probably has the best SOUND, but the level design aside from the ambiance are tons of corridors with enemies waiting to ambush you. 3-2 and 5-2 are objectively some of the worst levels in a videogame, with tons of backtracking, pitfalls, and tanky enemies that can 2 shot you. Out of the series Bloodborne is the best followed by DS2
>"you can spam R1 in this game and beat"
>"You can spam a move in DMC too"
>"But DMC let you beat the game easily and improve your skill later on"
>"You can too in ER"
>"B-But this game is too easy and you can spam R1"
No SotFS has much deeper gameplay, better combat, more levels, expansive character customization and build variety, more freedom and choice, replayability, smarter enemies, more challenging
DaS1>Bb>ER>Sekiro>DaS3>DeS>DaS2
I tried the remake recently and it was extremely unfun to play. They made STRIDES in improving the formula just with Dark Souls. So much that Demon's Soul is literally unplayable for me