Can we move on to AI translations already? I’m getting tired of localizers thinking they’re developers that need to ‘improve’ on the ideas of games’ actual creators.
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
>Can we move on to AI translations already?
whats stopping you anon
I want devs to do it themselves in order to preserve their stories
So you're a moron who can't do anything. Understood
I can sure frick your mommy real good
TRIGGERED LOOOL
Your mom didn’t call me a moron last night
Can you do it?
No?
Well you must be even more moronic then him.
if they wanted preserve their stories they would do in house translations or supervise hired hands closely - but they don't
which suggest that they don't care and you are just another dumb gajin pig that they try to fleece from money
>if they wanted preserve their stories they would do in house translations or supervise hired hands closely - but they don't
>which suggest that they don't care and you are just another dumb gajin pig that they try to fleece from money
This.
It's time to accept that japs don't give a frick about their story's integrity and only care for the gaijin's money.
Stop giving them money until they learn their lesson so learn japanese and pirate all their games
Out of all the jobs that AI should steal, it's definitely the troonslators
>UMM DON'T YOU KNOW WHO WILL BE TRAINING THE AI, IT WILL BE TROONS THE TROONS WITH THEIR TROONISM
Nah the companies won't bother paying troons to make cancer cores when it'll be cheaper to use generic ones
Every AI is troon trained right now, no need to look to the future.
DeepL and ChatGPT are still not perfect yet. They miss a some context here and there as well as sentence build ups.
I would guess it will take 5 good years for solid AI translations.
They can dothr bulks of translations and jus have someone in-house to do a review after
>They can dothr bulks of translations and jus have someone in-house to do a review after
Yes this is the most optimal way but it won't get rid the root cause of the problem. "Translators" inject their version and vision on to the product either way. So either you completely remove that element or you have to deal with their fanfiction for a little longer.
The problem is that you'll hardly find anyone to do this. If translations pay X amount, entertainment media already pays a third of it, and machine translation post-edit jobs pay a fraction of regular TL jobs. So what you end up with is editing gargantuan amounts of text (which isn't going to take a small amount of time, because MTL still has many issues especially with short segments and synonyms) for dick-all money.
So you're stuck with either people who don't care about money, or people who once again want to do it for ideological reasons.
>have someone in-house to do a review after
Fansubs do this anyway by altering CR subs so you won't get anything different than now except it'll be faster
What are CR subs?
Ai wont translate my henti games.. because it's too "obscene"
just use a local LLM
They're all shit compared to GPT4.
t. can't use 70B models
You have two a100s?
People are saying it's 1 t/s on a 4090.
That's completely unviable on consumer hardware.
Use uncensored AI.
with enough context we can continue the VN on the AI chat after it finishes
Pretty sure some guy in f95 is enslaving chatgpt into translating whole VNs so you're just not doing it right.
It's not going to be fully automated. The localization team will just be heavily reduced to a few people reviewing the AI-asissted scripts.
>5 years
We have AI software engineering agents now. I'm betting 2.
Translation-angst is fake drama
You should want AI translations, not to read them, but to make localizers lose their jobs.
Learn Japanese, fire localizers, and Japanese games will be saved.
If you're going to go down the path of learning Japanese, the fact that localizers exist shouldn't even matter to begin with.
I do agree that AI replacing localizers is a viable method of them getting them out quick, but it's pretty much the nuclear option without a high quality translation option to replace them.
>If you're going to go down the path of learning Japanese, the fact that localizers exist shouldn't even matter to begin with.
SEGA Japan proudly reposted an article about localization and how localizers continuously pester Japanese devs about changing content at the source (the localizers being interviewed were from Bandai Namco). Sorry, but no. Localizers must die.
There are more words on the right and it is therefore better
of all translation outrages Ganker has had over the years, Unicorn Overlord is by far the most forced
I’m not saying it’s the worst offender, just saying it’s not what was intended. When you’re ok with the ‘good’ localizations, they feel validated to make the bad ones later on.
The problem is your example is lukewarm. Noone will take it seriously and you're hurting your argument. I wouldnt be shocked if you were false flagging for the shitty localization teams.
We get you like the game, it's not an excuse for dogshit translations
Japanese is such a primitive language.
how come you got filtered then
another day another EOP crybaby thread
I’m brazilian actually, english is my third language
English and japanese are the only relevant human languages, no one cares about whatever other monkey speak you can communicate in
>japanese
>relevant
lol
>the latin language and its offshoots that created western civilization aren't relevant
Sure sounds like a moronic mutt speaking.
who the hell cares what this drunk has to say? I'm skipping regardless
>Localizers are shit (because of american cultural imperialism)
>Let's use this automated system (that is made by the same exact people but will make everyone poorer as well and shut down controversies because AI is """"""""""""objective""""""""""""")
A tool is easier to control than a blue haired nonbinary idiot in san francisco
It's ironic and terrifying how you say this like it's a good thing, leave it to subhuman Gankerirgins to make things worse for everyone because they have trannies living rent in free in their heads
>The automated system cannot form cliques and proactively lie to the Japanese side
It absolutely can because the automated, moron. system is created by the clique to begin with
Localization is not a science, it's cultural practice.
>It absolutely can because the automated, moron. system is created by the clique to begin with
holy ESL, batman
The automated system cannot form cliques and proactively lie to the Japanese side. It can only respond when asked.
>The automated system cannot form cliques a
LMAO, you are an absolute imbecile. Every single AI model on the market has been neutered to shit, why do you think this won't happen with translations you stupid frick?
Another low IQ take.
First off, you are not bound to use an AI. You can simply build your own translation engine based on a DeepL API, frick, you can even use an offline translation engine like sugoi if you really wanted to and double check the results after wards.
Secondly open source AI will soon exist with Musks Grok AI being the most unfiltered AI on earth. You can easily do your own inhouse fork optimized for japanese translation.
Just because something is build in the US doesn't mean it's completely unusable
>Musk simp
>Praying to """"""open source"""""" software
This place is way worse than I thought.
If you are able to copy the source code and build your own fork upon it, then yes, open source is the best way to go you tech illiterate subhuman moron
Yes and the slight matter of painstakingly curating a billion sample works. You frick. You shit eater.
Have fun with your PS5 I guess
I personally would never purchase a game that required me to scroll through a trillion talky prompts. I would simply read a book instead
I don't buy consoles, I'm also not a mentally ill EOP like you who's so desperate and deluded he thinks his AI tumblrina is better than a meatbag tumblrina because your corporate overlords of choice say so.
>I'm also not a mentally ill EOP like you
so why do you care about localization threads
because he's a mentally ill tumblrina who goes into threads looking for things to get mad at
Are you talking about the guy I replied to?
Yes
Because you people are basically popping a vein in your head over the artistic equivalent of harry potter fanfiction
why do you care
peope pop veins about dumb shit all the time, especially on Ganker
do you do this with every vein-popping thread about dumb shit?
Because I hate clueless morons like you who keep plastering the whole internet with this inane bullshit, and as I said before, the localization process is intrinsically a cultural issue, not a practical issue.
You'd think idpol obsessed morons would be interested given how you fancied yourselves as cultural warriors and stalwart defenders of what is "right", but as usual, corporate America can do no wrong if it's the football team I root for.
You people are nothing more than another flavour of useful idiots trained to bark to push an agenda, and the fact that you sincerely believe you're not indoctrinated muppets just because you don't dye your hair (yet) is incredibly fricking annoying.
you seem to be attacking some kind of strawman
if I could somehow make it cosmically illegal for americans to touch Japanese works in every capacity, I would. What does that make me in your moronic little premade universe you're trying to slot me into?
>plastering the whole internet
Since when is Ganker "the whole internet"? Just take a break from Ganker if it makes you so angry. You've no one to blame but yourself.
>thinking he actually cares and isn't just another disingenuous leftoid
Yeah I figured as much, since he was too afraid to reply after I called him out lol
Calling other clueless morons when you write shit like
> inane bullshit, and as I said before, the localization process is intrinsically a cultural issue, not a practical issue.
Frick you, if i ever find you in a real life id break your hands
>the localization process is intrinsically a cultural issue, not a practical issue
Somewhat, but that doesn't explain why trannies are injecting pure fiction like the OP pic.
Nonetheless, language models will be able to parse with full cultural understanding soon so your arguments are just wasted electricity.
Yeah, which is why GIMP totally killed Adobe, right?
>morons show their true color
how have you lived so long without killing yourselves by accident
You're arguing with tech-illiterate zoomers, anon.
Tech illiterate zoomers that cut their penises off
>double check the results after wards
So, do the translation twice, the second time by hand?
Very efficient stuff
Kill all localizers
Localizers are all evil subhuman scum, changing even one word from the original text always makes the result unreadable trash that has 0% in common with the original text. Localization should never be done, the only true form of translation is raw MTL output where no disgusting human being has had the chance to """improve""" it by making changes.
I'm not interested in whatever moronic fanfiction the subhuman localizer vomited out, I want the original puns, idioms, references, sentence structure and grammar untouched. I play Japanese games for their culture, not American politics, zoomerspeak and moronic memes.
>This translation is so bad guys!!!!!
>Shows the same couple of examples every thread
Really makes you wonder if the other 99.99% of the dialogue is like this
localization-obessesed morons like OP wouldn't know since they not only not know japanese, they also don't play games
>post other examples
>pfff its similar enough, stop exaggerating
>post examples where its clear its a mistranslation even to people who might not understand either language
>omg chud, why post the same obvious example of mistranslation, don't you have other examples
You will never admit your fault. Go frick yourself kindly.
this, any time someone tries to post any changes more subtle than the fricking FE Fates "..." shit you get told "ummm it's basically the same lmao who cares"
then the mongoloids wonder why people stick to the most egregious ones only
Sounds like a concession to me
>>pfff its similar enough, stop exaggerating
yeah?
>it takes a genius to know less words in one language doesnt mean purple prose in another
Sounds like projection. Did your father beat you across the head as a child or were you born this moronic?
Alright how many pics you want you disingenuous wienersucking subhumans?
these shitposting threads failed and UO is poised to outsell FF7Rebirth in Japan, just give up already
Why would I care about it selling or not?
>PLEASE BE OUTRAGED
>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Let this be a lesson to the Discord doomers to pick and choose your battles wiser next time. If you b***h and moan about every little change every single localization makes, people are going to get sick of hearing you. Stick to the most egregious, spiteful examples or shut your weeb mouths. Most of you are clearly ESLs who shouldn’t be complaining about English translations anyway.
The only thing I am asking of you is that if you "don't care" then frick off.
But if you feel the need to consistently pick a fight then you do care. You care very much.
Enjoy your word vomit.
stopped at “lesson”
How to tell which anons here have actually read books and which just think big and more words are better.
Ah yes. Famously poor author William Faulkner. Truly a no book reader.
>seething so hard he cant even write English correctly
Stop being angry take a deep breath and rewrite your post to convey your point.
is there a reason why Japan cant write good fantasy dialogue? is the language that limited?
It's weird, isn't it? Every JRPG is just laden with dialogue. I think more words makes it "more epic".
yes and their writing system
Japanese just doesn't translate very well to English.
t.moron
>oohhhhhhh
I mean just dont write bad dialogue in Japanese in the first place?
Uhm sweety translating is art computers can't do that.
>Implying it isn't going to be raped and sanetized just like every AI in the market and with a homosexual checking and changing the "problematic" parts with their fanfic
The only good part is morons crying for losing their job but nothing is going to change
Localization is good because of my bad faith argument
>Localization is bad... and that's a good thing
It also breaks one of the golden rules of writing that anyone who ever took a course in English should know.
This statement is correct, but not in the midwit way you are interpreting it.
Sounds like someone who didn't read the book trying to interpret the meaning out of fat air?
Why do you do this? Why can't you homosexuals take criticism and learn from it instead of constantly trying to remake history
Here a page from the literal book and his examples
Now look at OP's pic and see how many needless words you can get rid of whilst still keeping the active voice
>Now look at OP's pic and see how many needless words you can get rid of whilst still keeping the active voice
The sentences in the OP are fine, just stylized. Read them again. Then look at what you posted. If your IQ is above 85 you should be able to tell the difference.
You unironically have an iq of 85 if you cant see whats wrong with OPs pic
that's better but still terrible
of course it is. But they managed to make it even more terrible by overwriting.
Well done, you are soulless editor with smelly finger up his ass
That's worse for the tone of the character
Please do not use WORDS WORDS WORDS threads as actual writing advice, they were supposed to be for Tim Buckley's earlier CAD comics and somehow people tried to get it to take off as its own epic meme
No its fricking not. The tone remains the same.
>Please do not use WORDS WORDS WORDS threads as actual writing advice
Please take that up with
,
and
>The tone remains the same
LOL
its ok you have an iq of 85 so you can't tell the difference.
>That's worse for the tone of the character
It isn't. You still have the original character right there to compare to, and the trimmed localization is no better or worse as a translation than the non-trimmed one because the localization is already garbage and you can't improve its characterization quality without making it more like the original text.
Good writing and good translation are separate because translation isn't writing. The English text should be judged on its ability to represent the original text.
Still not accurate, moron.
>ha...?
>nu, nuoo....
>ooooooooooooooo...
Gripping dialogue from a very serious character who definitely doesn't sound like moaning, whining joke in the Japanese dub.
>what?
>n-n-o
>(Groans in pain)
Wow so hard. But like i said you have an iq of 85
You never said that to me. Also, that's still not what it says in Japanese. You're a localizing cuck.
Yes i did, I said and I quote
>You unironically have an iq of 85 if you cant see whats wrong with OPs pic
So thank you for proving my point on how moronic you are.
Real people don’t speak in optimised word counts, you moron.
Real people dont mangle idioms like bitter defeat or make up bullshit prose like delicious dreams
What? Are you stupid? People mangle idioms all the fricking time.
>What? Am I stupid?
Yes you are
Oh, you are stupid.
>Oh, I am stupid.
Well thank you for admitting that.
How many books have you written?
I haven’t written any terrible books so I’m already doing better than those authors.
You havent written any books
>I hope you recover from your stupidity.
Yes I hope you recover from your stupidity.
I hope you recover from your stupidity.
>Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences
okay
>for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts.
this part is unnecessary
whoever wrote this is a dumb frick who can't follow his own rules
Eb White and William Strunk jr
Now explain how that part is unnecessary
Terrible advice from a terrible book. Also not applicable to dialogue.
>not applicable to dialogue.
It is if the original dialogue is concise.
>writers bible
>sells millions of copies
>Terrible book when other writers write that its good
Are you seething or coping?
I haven’t read it but nothing about it seems suited for dialogue writing.
You're wrong on all counts.
There’s plenty of general criticism about the book. Its use as recommendation for new writers also appears to be near exclusive to America, which is big red flag. And it definitely isn’t applicable to dialogue at all or the most regarded books throughout history would be considered failures.
>i didnt read the book
>There’s plenty of general criticism about the book
> it definitely isn’t applicable to dialogue at all
Anon stop pussyfooting around to try and win an argument you cant even grasp about a subject you don't even know.
>to be near exclusive to America, which is big red flag.
And where pray tell was the rewrites taken place?
The bullet point that was posted here is simply is not useful for dialogue. Who writes dialogue with aim to omit unnecessary words? No real person talks like that.
ok so we moving away from the book as a whole and just to the bullet points is that right?
We're also not going to talk about where the rewrites take place, ok.
Well anon do you not know what purple prose is?
MTL already exists and it sucks ass
No bro I'm sure the He/Him localizer at 8-4 with a protected Twitter account knows more about the infinitely complex nuances of the Japanese language than you do sweatie! There is NOTHING wrong with writing funny internet memes like
>H-he's fast!
into dialogue where it didn't exist in the original! It'd be boring without punched up dialogue and funny jokes
That particular example doesn't count btw or any other glaring examples it's a good translation stop cherrypicking
>Riesenbach
israelite name
Why don’t you just learn Japanese instead you バカ外人???
俺は日本語を学んだぞ
でも、駄目な翻訳にブチ切れるのは止めるつもりはねぇ
なんでお前は日本語を学ばないんだ?
Anon, you know he can't read that without Google Translate.
True lol
Definitely gonna make it, lil bro
If you could get DeepL to write anything even close to that, I'd be impressed.
I recognized at least 4 kanji
Can I learn japanese bros?
Nice DeepL you fricking fraud
Warning bros, don't go down the same path as me. I learned Japanese cause I was tired of this shit and before I knew it I'm marathoning untranslated anime and manga and married to my Japanese wife. We just did it and I'm at the part of kenja time where I feel like I am god right now.[spoiler]
Anyway, I recommend gyakuten saiban or sono hanabira if you want good games/vn for beginners.[/spoiler]
>sono hanabira
ゲイ向けゲーム興味ないね
so is the translation good? why did Ganker give this a pass but not fire emblem?
I'm not giving it a pass, if anything its just as egregious
In some ways, it's almost worse.
Are you honestly getting upset over translators flavoring up what is nothing gibberish Japanese?
Yes because they cant write worth shit and break several rules of writing
see
Fricking deal with it. 90% of the world's population cant write well.
>90% of the world's population cant write well
Let me guess, you're white?
What rules?? How?
I literally gave you two pics
What the frick do you think i mean?
>Omit needless words
>Omit needless words
>Omit needless words
>Fricking eat shit
No, incompetent wienersuckers who cant do the one fricking job assigned to them whilst giving me purple prose word laden garbage need to be teared a new butthole.
now anon
omit needless words and write again
I gave you two pics.
What did you think i meant?
>"Omit needless words! Omit needless words! Omit needless words!"
i am not him
i am just curious if you can use these book principles in practice
go back to cited post and rewrite it using them
I actually think he's ESL and trying desperately to compensate lol. He used the expression "out of fat air" earlier in this thread.
Is that not what I did?
Thats a simpsons joke you dimwit.
>No, incompetent wienersuckers who cant do the one fricking job assigned to them whilst giving me purple prose word laden garbage need to be teared a new butthole.
too many needless words, shorten it
No it wasn't
>This isn't a newswire
Its the rules you follow if you want to be a writer.
>but neither does ignoring them entirely
Needless words should be ignored entirely when writing.
>Having Beaumont speak so verbosely instantly tells you something about him, suggesting at the very least a great deal of self-importance
Something he wasn't
>Or you can have the noble's speech be more ornate and have it called out be a more plain-talking lower station character.
The only correct thing posted.
>rules to be a writer
>Needless words should be ignored entirely
>he wasn't
>correct
omit needless words
You're fricking moronic
>moron
>
The "You're" is refererring to you. just writing moron doesnt specify who
the "fricking" tells you i'm angry
>t. moron
t. is not recognized in English
>rules to be a writer
I'm not a writer.
>shitting on EB White and Strunk
Ok zoom zoom when you're in college then we can talk.
We didn't cover those literally whos when I went to uni and I work as a writer now.
>EB White is literally who.
> I went to uni and I work as a writer now.
Show me your degree with the name and school edited out.
If you think "Elements of Style" is the be all and end all of writing rules and not a guidebook of helpful advice for new writers I'm not sure what to tell you.
If you think this translation is good writing then (I) don't know what to tell you
your evidence that it's not good writing is fricking elements of style my man
Yes and?
Do i need to write a larger dissertation on why theyre shit when you're already clearly butthurt.
I'm serious, you and i both know you're not arguing in good faith. Why would i move from this hill when all i have is insults and excuses from people pretending they took a English couse and our writing now whilst praising this frick awful writing?
Seriously, level with me here.
nobody is arguing in good faith about localization quality when it's a topic of conversation typically and routinely taken over by asshurt nichegamer cultists who mostly want it as a segue into screaming about SJWs taking over "the industry"
>give a book on what writers should do
>edit a the OP pic showing that there sentences are needlessly prosey
>you're nichegamer
Never visited the site, i dont give a shit if its a bogeyman you have
Look me in the fricking eye, tell me you took an English course and you consider OP's pic as good writing.
Be honest with yourself.
I fricking dare you.
OP's pic is perfectly fine, your "needlessly prosey" is my "one or two extra words a sentence i am literally not going to think about in ten seconds because i digested the sentence and moved the frick on instead of obsessing over it online"
use your high horse as a platform to fricking have a nice day from
>making up shit that isn't in the original and/or altering the tone is perfectly fine
You don't like games so one wonders why you are here
anon in charge of keeping his wrists stiff
It is not perfectly fine, if anything its downright abysmal
>one or two extra words a sentence
For every damn sentence in this game
> am literally not going to think about in ten seconds because i digested the sentence
Ok then don't take offense but i consider you moronic.
> fricking have a nice day
Not before i break every bone in your body and force you to eat from a straw for the rest of your life and sterilize your mother and father for creating a frickwit such as yourself.
>there's one or two words every sentence you are LITERALLY the hitler of lolcalizations
i'd tell you to castrate yourself but you ain't using that stuff anyways
I'd use it rape your prostitute mother, i'd give you a baby brother but your mother might make it a moron like you.
Now take marios finger and jam it up your ass thats about as close to sex as you will ever have you unironic moronic subhuman piece of shit
There's nothing particularly wrong with it. Especially because it's dialogue rather than exposition or description. The word choice should be driven by the intended characterization not by a perceived imperative for conciseness. So your criticism seems to be not so much about the writing, and but rather that you object to the change in the character's portrayal. But that's not "bad writing” itself. Personally, I don't find the japanese Beaumont to be particularly interesting or compelling, but that's a qualitative judgement.
>if you complain about bastardized translations that at best are just shit and hobbled by political correctness, but often insert outright fanfiction of an ideologically-motivated nature, you're not arguing in good faith
You must be correct, since you're such an expert on bad faith arguments
>i'm arguing in good faith that's why i'm using the game's flowery writing to b***h about political correctness and likening rewrites or extended writing to fanfiction
Total parody of a human being. I couldn't even purpose design a strawman that does it better than you
>i'm arguing in good faith that's why i'm using the game's flowery writing to b***h about political correctness
They are separate problems with one common source: Arrogant, meddling localizers who distort the material to bolster their ego or ideology.
>likening rewrites or extended writing to fanfiction
How the frick are they not?
I told you I couldn't make up a guy to get angry at as efficiently as you airing your actual opinion and you completely ignored it to keep arguing. I literally could not conceive of a clown as ridiculous as you.
Not the same anon you said that to, but I won't mock you for it since that's an easy mistake to make.
You are moronic and disingenuous for completely different reasons.
I'm not the same guy, that's why I was the only one to respond.
YOU MOTHERFRICKING SUBHUMAN
WHEN
WHEN IN ANY OF MY POSTS DID I CRY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS?
YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT FRICKING STRAWMANS YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT?
the literal post he replied to is b***hing about it
He replied to you inferring thats what im doing.
Fricks sake thats all its about with you homosexuals. Culture wars, god fricking forbid people just not want garbage.
>There's nothing particularly wrong with it.
Theres a lot wrong with it, it mangles expressions and adds needless words that add nothing
>Defeat is bitter
>delicious dreams dust in my mouth
Thats not a human being that's a caricature of one.
So not only do i not get an accurate translation, i have to read bad writing on top of it.
Every sentence is full of this even the main characters.
They arent writing what they really is butcher expressions and english idioms
Those people have identified the problem. The problem is exactly and precisely communist subversion, because
1. in order to make something not fill its primary function without destroying it, you have to subvert it, and
2. the only people who would subvert something so basic are ideological revolutionaries. Additionally,
3. it is evident from the translations produced by the people who publicly broadcast their ideological beliefs, motivations and praxis.
Ultimately, they (the dissidents) want good translations. The factual actual reason for why good translations don't happen is because there are people who are preventing it, and those people are doing it for ideological reasons. Ultimately they do not want to simply remove the ideologues from their positions for any other reason other than that it seems to be necessary for attaining good translations. This is an argument presented with full faith placed in your ability to understand it and in your ability to engage with it productively.
>Those people have identified the problem. The problem is exactly and precisely communist subversion
come the frick on dude can we not have a thread without somebody trying to larp as mccarthy's chosen disciple?
because
1. in order to make something not fill its primary function without destroying it, you have to subvert it, and
2. the only people who would subvert something so basic are ideological revolutionaries. Additionally,
3. it is evident from the translations produced by the people who publicly broadcast their ideological beliefs, motivations and praxis.
These posts are incredibly funny after a lot of kvetching about nobody arguing in good faith
>>come the frick on dude can we not have a thread without somebody trying to larp as mccarthy's chosen disciple?
>If I pretend it's not the case, it's not the case
And I asked you to explain how.
Can you actually read????
What words are needless????
see
See what? You did not say which are the needless words. Can you not provide OP's dialogue but removing the needless words??
This isn't a newswire. Those aren't absolute rules. Big words for big words sake don't make writing better, but neither does ignoring them entirely. Unusual vocabulary can be useful when used deliberately for effect and can "concisely" help in establishing character. The words the characters choose to use can tell you about them. Having Beaumont speak so verbosely instantly tells you something about him, suggesting at the very least a great deal of self-importance. Or you can have the noble's speech be more ornate and have it called out be a more plain-talking lower station character.
>suggesting at the very least a great deal of self-importance
Yep.
It's not the character speaking, though.
>Those aren't absolute rules
Yeah Black person, that's just fricking creativity. There are no rules, everything is subjective.
Yeah, obviously.
OP is homosexual, doesn't show direct translation of boring nip dialogue
>Huh? Urgh, oh... Oooooooh!
There you go. Localizers got all that English out of just that.
as someone who is terrible at japanese, i can still tell the difference
when a translations is actually well done and accurate with minor tweaks to make it sound natural,
and when a translation is not even trying to stick close to the original.
these people will give 500 excuses for it but the reality is that they are just being disrespectful and there is no reason for it to be that way.
post your sweet baby topics on /misc/, schizo tourist
This is an 8-4 thread, sweaty.
nobody cares about your /misc/ sweet baby bogeyman incel
It's not bogeyman if it's real, chud.
you're the chud this topic only exists to cry a bout black people in games go leave
There are no black people in Unicorn Overlord
???
we already know you just want to pretend black people don't exist youre proving my point
So are you guys ever going to pick up on the underlying fact that the people who write these games sign off on the translations?
No, because all of these "people" are EOP useful idiots.
This attempt to push for AI translations is just the usual psyop.
You are not supposed to point that out, it's all the localizers fault not mine, the fact that I'm a fat lazy idiot that can't learn a second language is completely irrelevant to this discussion
>poor work and active subversion are completely justified because you wouldn't need the service if you learned X skill
This is a losing argument and always has been.
>Completely Ignoring the fact that developers are the ones putting these translations up in the first place
Vanillaware since their Grim Grimoire days has put out these type of translations and for UO is no different
They are giving you the translation that they want you to see, if you don't like it complaining on Ganker is tantamount to throwing a tantrum on the supermarket
Developers aren't endorsing these translations, they just don't care about how it's translated to other languages except if they become aware of it affecting their bottom line. They think this shit is what we want.
There are also countless admissions of localizers surreptitiously sneaking shit in.
>Developers aren't endorsing these translations, they just don't care about how it's translated to other languages
That's what you think, you don't even understand how the whole process works and the bureaucracy that comes with it.
Devs always send a huge design documents with how the naming conventions should be and the style of writing that they should be employing
This is not the 90s where translations were done willy nilly
How could people who don't speak the target language possibly provide a guide on how to translate into it?
>Devs always send a huge design documents with how the naming conventions should be and the style of writing that they should be employing
Devs are hands-on to the extent that it creates the perception of a good translation and protects their brand, and that probably includes the olde english shit that pervades these games because they think we like it. But that's not the same as actually endorsing all the bullshit that comes from localizers. They just don't care that much about the details. Why should they?
They'll crack down on this shit if it appears to affect their profits.
There is no such thing as a good video game translation, even if you put the most talented people in charge.
Yeah, I think this translation sucks too. Glad we agree.
translation will never be as good as the original but there can certainly be good translations. it doesn't take much, less is more.
it's kinda like video editing where the edit is supposed to compliment the footage and not try to overtake it like a 12 year old who opened pirated editing software for the first time
>but there can certainly be good translations. it doesn't take much, less is more.
Like what? Could you even explain what makes these "good translations" good, or is your sole criteria "well at least they didn't put any memes in it".
there is no good enough translation - for you
learn weeb and frick off
a good translation is one that retains the meaning of what is being said, that's not really complicated to understand or to do.
it should also retain the personalities of the characters, this one's a little tougher as people express themselves quite differently in different languages. the same issue is true in point one aswell but it's more severe here. it recquires someone who is fluent in both and has a decent cultural understanding of the two. which should be a given if you want to do this job properly
third point, leave your fanfic out of it. doesn't matter if meme, joke, fancy language, or completly unrelated fanfic writing. just don't and be respectful
tada! good translation
Uhuh. And do these "good translations" actually exist, or are they just theory?
if you're as hooked into translation drama as you are to b***h endlessly about bad ones you should logically have examples of good ones
problem being what a localization obsessed basement dweller considers a good translation and what somebody with dual-language knowledge considers a good translation, sometimes even what the mono-language developers consider to be a good translation (i.e. evangelion's writers taking extreme offense to the localization from the mid '10s regardless of it being accurate or not) have repeatedly been proven to be two different things entirely
>do these "good translations" actually exist
yeah they, do but there's a few reasons for why you won't hear much talking about specific cases.
1. old translations were more genuine but learning languages was harder in the 80s and 90s than it is now, hence you get poor translations due to lack of ability and lack of people being held accountable through social media and shit.
2. new translations are less genuine, people are better at the languages but are worse mentally.
(both of those points are generalizations, there are obviously exceptions in both cases)
3. someone has to still be fluent in both in order to spot a good one and then bother playing both and report about it.
personally i haven't played enough games in multiple languages to give you a list
but for example some early Zelda games feel like they were trying to stay close to the source whereas in something like Yokai Watch you can immediatly tell they didn't care at all about that
Kingdom Hearts is one that gets made fun of sometimes for its talk about the Heart, Darkness and other silly seeming terms but it's also due to how close it stays to the original with those concepts
I enjoy how this "controversy" has gained zero traction and the 3 people aggressively pushing it get more unhinged by the day
Remember when Neo TWEWY threads were b***hing about the localization all the time and it turned out to be some grognards from NicheGamer trying to force a controversy
I refuse to budge just because you're moronic sorry chud.
I don't care for the controversy, but as someone who knows some japanese (N3), the translation really is extremely liberal at times to the point that it gets a bit jarring.
I'd really appreciate if they kept the localization more akin to the original text rather than their own dellusions of what it should look like.
that that to devs who are OK with it
or didn't care to enforce it
>I'd really appreciate if they kept the localization more akin to the original text rather than their own dellusions of what it should look like.
Will never happen, this shit has been a thing since forever, go pick up a random SNES/PS1 game and you will find the exact same issues, go look at your average old anime show and you will see even worse issues.
Localization as a practice is what's wrong, because the process in itself isn't about TRANSLATING, it's about CHANGING things to make it more "palatable" to the target audience, hence the term itself, to localize is to change according to the audience you're targeting.
The problem is inherently cultural, it's not something you can change with a machine, machines will actually make it worse and only EOPs will tell you otherwise, EOPs who have no real investment in the actual problem, it's just the usual idpol crusade bullshit, which is why nobody in these threads complains about old videogames being exactly the same.
Did you see this type of shitshow when, say, FF12 came out and basically 90% of the script was changed into a completely different register, ENG voice acting added irl regional accents that weren't present in the original JP voice acting and also modified parts of the script to add several things that weren't present in the source material?
Of course not, because it wasn't a purple haired sexually confused "leftist" doing it, just some four-eyed white dude that was doing the same exact thing and got praised to high heaven for his incredibly tasteful work even in this place.
Nobody actually cares about this shit, not even one year ago if you dared point out that something like Tactics Ogre suffers from the same exact issue the same people who whine in here would tell you that the localization made the source material "better", now the narrative has changed because they can target purple haired trannies and "leftists". it's just dishonest political psyop bullshit.
sounds about right
I don't even get why they so stubborn about it?
they clearly don't like the game otherwise they would just play in nip
What did she mean by this?
>assumes she means a harem
gigachad
You're never going to get straight AI translations because humans still need to look it over and make sure its right and will edit things according to what they think sounds best.
people that beg for AI translations are fricking morons whose only experience with machine learning technology is chatGPT and image generation
source: machine learning translations have been used since ~2007, 2008
Anon translators are already using it
this doesn't mean they're smart or that "translators" actually have interest in a good translation over not paying a human to translate anything
If theyre already using it why are you upset that it should be utilized by others.
what is your fricking point supposed to be
>you: AI translation is already used
>me: this doesn't mean it's used for anything but cost-cutting
>you: WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING AI
The translators are already using it, before it hit the mainstream
I wanna cut out the middle man?
Why are you attacking AI and standing in the way of progress?
Should we have stopped the production of lightbulbs just because woodcutters might go out of jobs?
Don't bother trying to reason with AI Black folk. They're all delusional.
No you don't. We've seen what it leads to. Holy fricking shit is it bad, anon... you really have no idea.
bad translation > twittergay propaganda localization
not even a little bit true
you don't know japanese and should shut the frick up.
So I’m the target consumer for translations, and I’m saying they’re bad
I prefer AI translations, even if there are examples of good localizers. The greater good is served with AI, we have had too many bad actors.
Everyone speaking like some sort of melodramatic high school play aside, can someone explain to me why they use "ser" instead of "sir"? It sounds moronic.
Less common="Highbrow"
ah, gotcha
"Ser" is an archaic form of "sir"
As the other anon said, it's supposed to sound archaic to you to match the fantasy setting.
Was it localized for the middle ages then?
people b***h if the dialogue isn't fantasy-ish
people b***h if the dialogue is contemporary
there's no real recourse but to ignore one or both camps and just write the fricking dialogue
>people b***h if the dialogue isn't fantasy-ish
>people b***h if the dialogue is contemporary
Then just make it as authentic to the original as possible
no i am not going to do that because it isn't up to you and your left-field attempt to leave the dichotomy
get a translation job
I'm the customer and unlike you I care about games
I might not be making the decisions but I'm going to point out how moronic and anti-art they are.
"pointing it out" on a laotian popcorn vending imageboard is completely useless for voicing your complaint as a customer
And? Am i not allowed to complain because that makes you feel bad? Can I not voice a opinion
your opinion is nonsensical when you're also gassing yourself up as "i'm the customer and unlike you i care about games" and flinging around strong sentiments like "anti-art"
get a translation job
Explain how its nonsensical
if you can't see how you make no sense then you're not smart enough to be talking about this or have an opinion on it
no more (You)s
Sounds like projection
>if you can't see how you make no sense
No argument, only scorn
Same as always
Nobody is ever actually obliged to argue with you. Arguing is a useless skill outside of the internet and Ganker posters aren't very good at it in the first place.
>Nobody is ever actually obliged to argue with you.
No shit. Nice attempt to justify the inferiority and illogic of your position.
"illogic" isn't a word, ESL
oh no no no no
You proved you're a thesaurus warrior???
This is why people hate you by the way. Its not enough that you're moronic its that you want everyone else to be on your level of moronation
Thats not a thesaurus thats a dictionary definition.
I think you're arguing with a projecting ESL.
I think hes actually legitimately moronic and thought he found a easy gotcha.
As we all know, EFLs have a total and complete knowledge of their entire language and all its dialects, synonyms and antonyms. Noosphere.
Did it take you 10 minutes to look up the words to write this post?
Okay but if you call someone else an ESL because they used a word you don't understand and then you get proven fricking wrong, you can take your medicine
NTA, but I'm and ESL, and I read nip. These arguments are always fun. As if murricans are any good at their own language.
I actually think ESL is a dumb insult and a complete non-argument (and I admire your understanding of what would seem to be at least three languages), but if someone tries to employ it and fricks up I'm going to rub it in their face
>make stupid claim about words
>get disproven
>YOU'RE A THESAURUS WARRIOR
It's funny how you still don't realize how much you undermine your position with this shit. You prove your dishonesty every step of the way.
Are you really that stupid or were you just trying to make me waste my time proving you wrong?
Decisive antiloc victory
>get a translation job
>implying nepotism and ideological gatekeeping aren't rife in the industry
Surely b***hing about it on an anonymous imageboard will puncture the veil of nepotism. How could I be gatekept from a field I've never applied for???
Sure sounds like you just want to protect your friends instead
Sure sounds like you aren't going to apply for a localizing job and you never were in the first place.
Where was that implied?
Surely you b***hing about my posts on an anonymous imageboard will serve a grand purpose as well.
Get a localizing job.
You too
Once I've finished learning the language, I'll try, sure.
Many successful localizers don't know Japanese. It's not a requirement.
>Many successful localizers don't know Japanese. It's not a requirement.
It improves one's chances in an industry that, again, is rife with nepotism and gatekeeping. And anyway, I refuse to be one of those hacks who LARPs as a translator without knowing the fricking language.
>"pointing it out" on a laotian popcorn vending imageboard is completely useless
You people keep saying this, and yet so many times awareness builds in places like Ganker until it eventually reaches the mainstream. It's
useful enough and it's a toss up whether you're ignorant to that fact, or you know it and pretend otherwise to because you don't want me to know it.
stick to sweetbaby threads
I can multitask, but I'll see you there shill.
Everything here is either a twittercap or a word-for-word reddit repost now. Ganker is dead.
You're absolutely right. Welp, nothing else for it, you might as well pack up and leave. See you around!
the fix is to look at the original.
was it written in an archaic style? translate it in an archaic way.
was it written in modern language? translate it into modern language.
too many times is normal written dialogue changed to Shakespeare for no reason.
>the fix is to look at the original
no
this conversational direction is a brick wall, there is nowhere to go with it and no end-goal that isn't a thinly veiled attempt to have a "kill all localizers" thread
quit trying to leave the dichotomy
Japanese script is purple prose-y as it is. I wouldn't translate おおお and the like verbatim though lol.
No, the word choice is intended to evoke an archaic feeling in the modern reader for effect.
Is that the intent of the original text?
I don't know.
Is there perhaps an expert we can ask?
and it's shit
wrong not even those in the middle age speak like this
the japanese dialogue is fricking boring
The English is frick awful
So much so i prefer the original
see
on that i agree
why do you consume japanese media if you hate japanese writing?
>But we've not come to make merry
Unironically better than the original.
How did one single symbol translate into a full sentence?
The translator thinks he’s a writer and decided to make the dialogue “”””””””””better”””””””””””
I know this is a black flag thread, and OP is showing a good example of translation to prove why AI is bad. However the reality is the negatives of bad localizers overshadow the good.
AI translations are just better and they will be able to do the flowery too if that is wanted, I don't want flowery bullshit rewritten.
Soon enough they will just build this shit directly into the consoles or tvs etc and you can choose what kind of translation you want.
These peoples jobs are soon to be phased out.
SAR DO NOT REDEEM THE LOCALIZATION
I FRICK YOU ASS SAR I RAPE YOU MOTHER SAR
Anyone that has used an AI sexbot knows AI can do anything these people do, they write ERP at a higher standard than most ff14 players.
Professional Japanese translator here, I will translate
>Huh?
>Ah...
>Wahh...
I really wonder why they messed up the translation on purpose. White people suck.
This is not even worth the time to complain about. By throwing a shitstorm over pointless changes all you're doing is hurting the valid point you're trying to make. Stick to examples of actual changes. Flowery, overwritten dialogue is not the problem. It's the changes that inject the localizers politics or personal beliefs into the script that need to be put to the forefront and addressed.
I truly don’t care about things like that. Use better examples if you want to sway people, like the localizer who changed tsundere to fragile male ego.
Did a game really do this?
yes but it was a VN I think
You b***h Black folk are in a minority, this has always happened in Vidya
Go complain where they actually censor shit.
Not everybody wants to read your lame VN tier scripts with Japanisms and canned dialogue. Grow up, or learn Japanese instead of wasting time on this bullshit
AI will take your jobs and i will laugh when it does
And I will laugh when your mom squeals like a piggy while I rail her in the ass
>hes a corpse fricker
Yeah thats about the kind of p
What's wrong, you started crying on your first post you orphan frick?
Maybe if your ugly b***h mom was still alive you would be spending your time more productively instead of wasting it on meaningless bullshit
You are a disgrace, grow up
She was a professor that hated morons and people that couldn't translate correctly.
I'm just following in her footsteps.
Imbeciles should know their places and stop polluting our schools.
>hes a corpse fricker
Yeah thats about the kind of piece of shit I assumed you were.
the thing is the JP has less dialogue but the ENG version despite not being woke or changing the personality of characters drags too long.
not sure which one I like the most
No, the jap script is really flowery. Well, standard for fantasy Vanillaware.
It's completely anime fantasy standard. The English text isn't just "flowery," it's fricking full psudo shakespearean.
It absolutely changes the personalities though...
OOOOOOOH...
>おおおぉおぉぉぉ...
Whats a good localization for this?
Oh my penis wenis hurts soooooo, My third leg is broken.
Don't like it well then you're a SJW
Ooooooooooooooooooooo.
The pedophile ver would be ToT
"Ooohhhhh"
>mfw in the future everyone of these shitty jap publishers that don't care about overseas fans will be forced to add a more literal translation option as well in addition to the LOC because it costs literally nothing and they have no excuse
If it didn't matter, why was it changed?
If you don't care, why are you here?
Shit argument when someone gets paid to make all that accessible to others and then deliberately fricks it up
Not my problem. EOPs can eat the slop they're fed for as long as they like. Those of us who matter are enjoying things in raw, unfiltered Japanese.
Why the FRICK are you arguing about shit that doesn't affect you at all?
I'm not arguing shit. I'm presenting a solution and sound advice (learn Japanese) which has gone unheeded by EOPs since time immemorial, and I'm sure will continue to go so for ages hence.
is playing this with japanese audio as jarring as I think its going to be? should I just play the entire game in Japanese and get my balls crushed by kanji?
>is playing this with japanese audio as jarring as I think its going to be?
YES. It's so fricking bad if you know a lick or more of Japanese. It's seriously takes you out of the cutscenes. I would see if you could tolerate the English because at least the voices match up with the dumb text.
>my standard for a good localization is something that doesn't make me feel disillusioned or betrayed when faced with a more literal translation of the original because I didn't buy a total conversion mod
>translating JPN dialogue where almost nothing is said in japanese with original dialogue in English already fails this test on all accounts
>this is unreasonable or b***hing
Why? This is a completely earnest and genuine concern, why do people need to pretend that this is without substance, like it's not a threat at all, it's just "caring" and being sensitive to the games we play
They need to make genuine concern trivial so no one pays attention that theyre doing a shit job.
Because it's not even worth the time to complain about. English and Japanese are saying the same thing only one is overwritten and the other is, honestly, underwritten. Nothing is actually being changed other than the manner in which that information is being conveyed. Nobody cares about UO's translation changes because anybody with at least a 5th grade reading level reads these examples and goes "okay, what's the problem?"
>the other is, honestly, underwritten
It's not, it's about as elaborate as possible for a dialogue only script. More so than, like, Dragon Quest.
>English and Japanese are saying the same thing
No the frick they aren't. The rest of your moronic comment was disregarded after hearing this ESL shit.
Yes it is, you fricking moron. Don't talk about reading comprehension when you clearly don't have any.
>doesn't know DQ is written so children can easily understand it.
Oh, I just picked an easy target to compare UO to.
>Yes it is-
No, it's not. You don't speak English, Japanese, and you probably never played this game if you're arguing this.
Prove it, moron. Every single example posted in these threads since the demo dropped have all had both sides saying the same thing, just the English is full of overblown prose.
Sure. About the MANY examples of a name call being turned into a full sentence with completely different intent? How about the many examples of hmms and grunts being turned into full sentences with completely different personality? You've never played the game, and it shows. Last (You) for you, ESL.
As I thought. You can't back up shit. Every single time with you fricks. Go back to farming outrage on twitter, moron.
>Every single example posted in these threads since the demo dropped have all had both sides saying the same thing
>The OP of this very thread, which everyone sees on entry, shows the exact opposite
It must physically hurt to be this wrong
>left
>grunts to express displeasure
>right
>explicit description of displeasure
They are indeed saying the exact same thing in different ways.
have a nice day
>groans and dies
>vs
>AH, FORSOOTH, MY LIFE DEPARTS ME AND I HEAD ARTICULATELY AND LANGUIDLY TO MY EARTHEN INTERNMENT ENSCONSED IN A CASKET OF BRILLIANT CERULEAN, WHICHFORE ECHOES THE VIGOR OF MY DESPAIR AS I PERISH T'WIXT THY BLADES
Completely identical
>dies
Ha!
Fricking moron.
You don't even know what happens in that scene.
'Twas but an illustrative example of the bountiful localizations nestled within this formidable product; death - ah, that immortal rapscallion - be not necessary to drive home my lesson! I trust thy confidence be not shaken by thy considerable error?
I trust in thine delusion you lack the understanding that the enemy general is not, in fact, within the grasp of death.
He is in fact making a haste retreat. I verily much doubt mere written grunts and wails could lead you to understand the events that transpire. Worry not, the only damages to this is the integrity of your words and your reputation. Fortunately you lack either of those so no pentalties for your errors.
Good thing I was mocking the localization broadly instead of trying to summarize a particular scene, then!
You're still wrong and a complete moron.
Don't worry, I know you're used to this situation, that's why you keep your shit here in Ganker where you're anonymous and don't have to put a face before your embarrassments.
You're too easy
Give me your address we'll talk face to face.
So you didn't like my localization efforts, anon?
>keeps arguing about Muh Context, Muh Tone
>unironically has no idea about the context nor the tone of the scene
Best part is, the reason why you have a wrong impression of what happens in that scene is because the japanese grunts do not convey the information at all, while the English localized language does.
>the reason why you have a wrong impression of what happens in that scene is because the japanese grunts do not convey the information at all, while the English localized language does.
So the meaning HAS been changed?
No you idiot. You just couldn't tell that
>Aaaaa
>Mu muooooo
>Oooooo
Were over the top grunts of regret and instead you assumed they were pained grunts of death.
You are wrong and were misled.
Isn't your argument that he didn't understand the scene because the Japanese was too ambiguous defeated by the fact that the literal English translation also didn't tell him what was going on?
So the meaning HAS been changed.
No, the meaning hasn't changed what changed is your perception.
It's over, you lost. Covering your ears and pretending you can't hear won't change anything, you toddler.
>Japanese doesn't convey information
>English does convey information
>Meaning: unchanged
It is becoming clearer and clearer that you are simply a completely dishonest person. Your argument is worse than moronic, it is empty and insincere. Why you feel the need to do this is anyone's guess, but you cannot win arguments in bad faith, all you can do is bamboozle. But at that, too, you have failed.
>grunts of pain doesnt convey information
Are you braindead if I you hear a person in pain you'd know he was hurt
>grunts of pain doesnt convey information
>Are you braindead if I you hear a person in pain you'd know he was hurt
I was quoting you or the similarly moronic person you're in league with, genius.
>Best part is, the reason why you have a wrong impression of what happens in that scene is because the japanese grunts do not convey the information at all, while the English localized language does.
If one version conveys meaning and the other doesn't, then the meaning was changed.
doesn't convey information
>This fricking moron thinks reading only words conveys information
>Holy fricking autism.
See above. And this conversation is about the meaning conveyed by the words chosen.
ok then that anon was moronic
another anon who dabbled in translations.
It feels bad knowing we went the extra mile to be accurate and these homosexuals just rewrite whole sale.
I think my favorite so far was getting an assignment to translate some patch notes, but they wouldn't tell me what the actual game was.
doesn't convey information
>This fricking moron thinks reading only words conveys information
Holy fricking autism.
Learn to fricking read.
You're just humiliating yourself at this point. Wait, let me translate my post for you into something that'll convey the same intent. Ahem,
Hahahahaha moron.
>just insults, can't address anything or form an argument.
Thanks for the concession, morons.
Where is the insult in
>There are no words in ooo
please list them
The arguments have been clearly laid out and they're countered with
>no
What do you expect in return?
The argument laid out is "dialouge box not same; thing completely different urrg" Every single time the point that the intention of the scene is the same, that the story being told is the same in both languages, you Black folk run and hide and can't say a fricking thing. Eat a dick. One of you morons
literally admitted to just shit posting
>Every single time the point that the intention of the scene is the same, that the story being told is the same in both languages, you Black folk run and hide and can't say a fricking thing
It's interesting that your tendency to revise history has progressed to the point that you're revising what's occurred in the last few hours. This entire thread is full of cogent retutations of your nonsense position, you just ignore it and pretend otherwise so you can keep arguing dishonestly. As the anon who posted
, allow me to apologize - it's just too hard not to make fun of you homosexuals as we run rings around you.
>Nobody is ever actually obliged to argue with you. Arguing is a useless skill outside of the internet and Ganker posters aren't very good at it in the first place.
Heres what you really said in my localized translation
Ooooooh i'm such a homosexual, the others anons were right and im just a dumb frick i should kill myself oooooooh.
This is a good localization wouldnt you say? It keeps the tone and atmosphere.
The OP alone proves you wrong. You're completely moronic.
>one is overwritten, one is underwritten
>nothing is changed
anon...
>The sun is setting
>Alas, the sun seeks it's resting place behind the horizon
One is written in simple language, one is overwritten. Both say the same thing.
OP provides a blatant example of them inventing entire sentences. Even if that wasn't the case, the way something is said changes the tone and changes the characterization of the person speaking.
How can you POSSIBLY see
>The sun is setting
>Alas, the sun seeks it's resting place behind the horizon
as the same thing? It's completely different tonally AND it implies an undesirable circumstance where the first does not.
And even if THAT were not the case, the simple sentence is superior because it's not absurdly clunky and pretentious. I really hope you didn't think you were providing an example of an acceptable translation...
I think the Anon is saying theyre not only failing in the translation portion but also the rewritten portion
No one, not even those of antiquity ever spoke like that.
The full dialogue in the OP's example is the guy is upset that he was foiled in his plan to capture the witches and has to get the frick out of dodge because of that. That's the exact same thing the English version is saying just with more words. They aren't changing the scene or it's message or it's intention.
>It's completely different tonally AND it implies an undesirable circumstance where the first does not.
No it doesn't. What the frick are you talking about? This is some middle school English teacher shit.
no ummm you see he didn't say "k-kuso..." so it's not original
Nah you got blown the frick out. You can't argue that a Ooooooo wail is the same as
"Ahh, the draught of defeat is a bitter one indeed." You can't read dude.
>the words aren't exactly the same so they can't be conveying the same intention
Actually moronic.
There are no words in ooo
>OOOooOOoo
>Ahh, the draught of defeat is a bitter one indeed
Please demonstrate equivalency
>Ban women from translating
>Ban Queers from translating
>Force all Men to to undergo 3 month psyche evaluation before being allowed to translate
Bam problem solved
Much as I think that gays are yucky, this game is pretty homosexual.
>if AI translated Nier Automata
>picks the character that really doesn't give a shit about humans at the end of the day
considering people have made restoration patches for every nintendo game, what are the chances UO gets a full retranslation patch?
>Localization is objectively better than the original
>Keeps the tone and context while adding ambiance to the setting
Thanks for the free marketing, chud. More people need to know when the English version does a good job and you're literally doing it for free
If the english localizers are such good writers they should write their own games
I just dont like how the Japanese voice acting and the text are so mismatched. One word becomes twenty. I wish the Japanese was as good as the english localization
>keeps the tone by changing the tone
Nice argument
I am not arguing, I am outright telling you they're the same.
have fun arguing to a wall and being wrong all day, though.
Get blown the frick out, moron.
Yo, someone localize this for me:
*braaaaaaap* ああああ...
>moronic mutt is pro-dehumanization of his art
just as planned lmao
The monkey paw shall grant you this wish.
In a couple of years, all translations will be AI edits. This way, they will be adding even more fanfiction because they aren't even sure what is being said themselves.
AI is extremely soulful though, unlike western leftists masquerading as translators
t. ChatGPT
I'm enjoying the game.
>FFT WOTL and Tactics Ogre LUCT come out with ye olde English translation
>everyone creams themselves over how cool the scripts are, people can't stop gushing about what a great job the team did
>17 years later
>UO translation team does the exact same shit as homage
>incels be like: NOOOOOO IT NEEDS TO BE TRANSLATED WORD FOR WORD NO MATTER WHAT!!!! >:(
lol
>tertiary nuchan sperg #113459953367 crying about translations from a language he can't understand thread #345643367
Does it hurt being so aggressively stupid? Like do you feel physical pain or is it more like a chronic, mind-bending frustration that keeps getting worse the more you get irritated by a world that's too far beyond your sub 90 IQ uneducated moron brain to grasp?
see
The one game that needs a AI translation.
>THEY USED A COUPLE EXTRA WORDS
Is this really all it takes for you people to get outraged?
As someone who was once a writer yes
see
Reading causes subhumans deep mental pain, the more words the more it hurts them
>t. never took a English course
Why don't you graduate from highschool first. You're embarrassing yourself.
Midwits have this bizarre idea that more words = smarter.
>couple extra words
>guy is literally groaning
For each of those lines of dialogue, they used an infinite amount of words per each word in the original, because the original contains no words.
Skull issues.
I don't need either because I know the original language.
looks like an improvement to me
what the frick is this garbage?
Are you moronic?
no i'm just not an esl moron who likes dry boring writing
It sounds like thats exactly what you are.
ESLs are obsessed with overly flowery prose despite not understanding any of it. It's bizarre.
If anything it's the opposite. It's the morons who don't have a strong grasp on the language getting bent out of shape because the texts don't match 1:1.
The prose really works against them, if they just cut out like 3-5 words it would sound alot better. It would at least be defensible.
No anon, its because everyone grasps the language that they realize overt writing like this sucks.
It's because they're ESL that they are angry. Imagine having the lexicon of a grade schooler and needing to pull out the dictionary on every sentence.
Jalisco 619
Col. Independencia
Monterrey, Nuevo Leon
I'm free at 9pm cst
Come alone, let's chat
🙂
>gives fake bullshit
Thought so.
Also see
lol lmao
>give address
>I-It's fakeeeee
Pussy
This is why I am not afraid of being doxed, you homosexuals won't do shit.
Yes its fake subhuman.
seconded
FORSOOTH, MY CONFOUNDED homosexual BRAIN SENDS COMMUNIQUES TO MY homosexual TONGUE TO IMPLORE IT SPEAK homosexual MISSIVES ERE ANY DOTH THINK MY OPINION UNFAVORABLE!
Did I do a good job of localizing you? It conveys the same meaning, in essence.
my favorite nuchan moronation almost as good as tourists unironically complaining about dub VAs
kys or learn japanese but preferably kys
we shouldnt have to learn chinese characters to play a game that would've been translated just fine 10 years ago
Why the frick would translators need to a thing for people in the business world if all they need to do is learn
ywnbaw
41% and rising sweetheart
translators get paid by word so whoever was doing this really needed the money
I just don't think the 'original' version of writing/the story is sacred. Simply being the original version has no inherent value.
As long as the result is good (and there *is* an argument to be made here when the result is decidedly worse than the original) who cares?
>but the author's intended vision!
i just don't see why it matters as long as the version i get it is cohesive/well done.
>As long as the result is good
It's not good. It's never good. There has never been a heavy handed "localization" that resulted in a better product.
Does Ghost Story dub count
No.
You mean the one where the localizers had to make up a complete lie that the original show wasn't liked at all in Japan to justify their youtube poop tier bullshit? If anything even remotely similar to Ghost Stories happened today (especially if it were a show as popular as Ghost Stories ACTUALLY was in Japan) people would go nuts.
They didn’t make up a lie to justify their choices because they don’t need to justify their choices. The story just got more exaggerated with every misunderstanding and retelling.
But also, you're wrong about there not being an inherent value in the original writing. By selling me a game that's allegedly written by liturary whoo, but the writing is ACTUALLY whatever some transexual in California decided it would be, you are committing FRAUD.
>I just don't think the 'original' version of writing/the story is sacred. Simply being the original version has no inherent value.
Yes it does, that's what the devs made. That's what the devs wrote. That's the original meaning around which the rest of the game, the art, the soundtrack, the mechanics, the characters, are built. That is inherent value.
original meaning is utterly irrelevant
the only thing that matters is that the version that you receive is good and being different from the original does not automatically detract from something being good either.
i suppose i am seeing the conflict from a biased view. When I see people complaining about a translation changing things or being hyper critical of how they decided to translate something, I assume their complaint originates with them feeling disgruntled that they received a 'lesser' version than the original text, rather than being upset that there is any change at all.
I just do not see a reason to even remotely care as long as the version I get is of good quality.
>original meaning is utterly irrelevant
so is your post
>as long as the version I get is of good quality.
Shame the version you got wasn't of good quality lmao
>original meaning is utterly irrelevant
>the only thing that matters is that the version that you receive is good and being different from the original does not automatically detract from something being good either.
Quality by itself is the primary factor of importance in original writing. In a translation, accuracy is integral to quality. The original meaning is supremely relevant because I am seeking to play the game that the devs made and read the story that the devs wrote.
Translators don't understand the developer's intention like the devs themselves do. They can make what seems like a minor change and end up destroying important subtext. This is seen in remakes too, like the controversial changes made to Demon's Souls.
Furthermore, the various aspects of a game work together like parts of machine, such that changing one element can cause everything else to work worse. I don't want to be insulting since you seem, at a glance, to be arguing in good faith, but if you don't understand this I think you're missing a big piece of the puzzle.
The fact that you're having to argue about accuracy being integral to a translation's quality with some mook on here just shows you how far Ganker's fallen.
Accuracy is not integral to localisation.
Obviously. One look at the OP could tell you that lol
You seem to consider a lack of accuracy to the source material to be an inherent negative. I don’t.
>You seem to consider my lack of intelligence to be an inherent negative. I don’t.
lol
What world do you live in where you can operate under these assumptions? Any other field and you'd get your ass kicked
The principle aim of localisation has never been accuracy to the source material.
And thats a negative.
You don't see it as so as you've made clear but it is a negative to others.
Localization is a form of xenophobia.
I didnt use to feel this but its become increasingly clear some people derive a sick pleasure from censoring and rewriting works
>The fact that you're having to argue about accuracy being integral to a translation's quality with some mook on here just shows you how far Ganker's fallen.
I wouldn't say it's all of them but I think a lot of these wise guys aren't Gankerners at all, not even newbies or tourists. Just outsiders pretending to belong so they can advance the interests of their cause.
Definitely an agenda.
>i suppose i am seeing the conflict from a biased view. When I see people complaining about a translation changing things or being hyper critical of how they decided to translate something, I assume their complaint originates with them feeling disgruntled that they received a 'lesser' version than the original text, rather than being upset that there is any change at all.
There's definitely some of that. For basically as long as Japanese works have been localized for the US market, the people and companies doing have been deliberately treating anything characteristically Japanese as something so weird and incomprehensible that it just had to be scrubbed from the western release. In my view there's no point in americanizing products from other cultures; if Americans couldn't stomach them unadulterated, they should've just not imported them. Consumers don't want unauthentic products, because they lack the quality of authenticity.
This has now been going on for many decades and has never been addressed or corrected by anyone in the importing process, so the body of criticism has grown too large to do anything about. For all these years they've had the opportunity to not do stupid bullshit with other people's and culture's artistic output, and now they're ran out of time. Everyone will think that everything they produce is trash on the face of it. For this purpose there is no longer a solution available. Welcome to the permanent revolution.
Outside of that resentment, there is a standard for translation and a way to judge a translation against the original text that is separate from judging the quality of those texts separately, and it would be great if the professionals would do their job and I hope that they eventually would, but for now they aren't even trying to so the criticism remains valid.
>Simply being the original version has no inherent value
Of course it does. If they're to be judged separately, then your claim of the translation improving over the original would have the validity of a claim of moby dick improving over macbeth. A translation should be judged on its ability to convey the meaning of the original text, because otherwise it would be another text.
>I just don't think the 'original' version of writing/the story is sacred
I just don't think the 'original' version of your post is sacred, so I'll instead pretend that you agree with me the translation's bad
>b-b-but I never said that
*smirks maniacally*
I’ll never understand why translators can’t just do their job properly and translate the stuff they’re given, why do they always have to do something extra? I’ve never seen anyone actually defend it outside of shitposters on v, at best it goes unnoticed and at worst it’s criticized. What do they gain from it?
iphone Black person bawwing aside, the UO locaization is good. The cardinal sins of localization are
>Over-localization (think 4kids jelly donuts)
>Inserting jokes/memes/real-life or pop-culture references/etc. where they didn't exist
>Censorship and arbitrary moral changes
>Errors
UO doesn't have any of those. At worst you can say it embellishes while maintaining the original meaning, which is a good thing because it's quite well-written. OP pic there is probably the most extreme example, cherrypicked for maximum outrage of course. Actually play the game with Japanese VO and you'll see, this is a nothingburger. We got a good loc this time around. There are more than enough moronic localization trainwrecks to seethe about, this ain't one of them fortunately
>the UO locaization is good
It's not
Let me guess: you didn't play the game and get all your opinions from Ganker ragebait.
not everything is another tortanic m8, this isn't FE Engage where entire personalities got completely changed and censored for the sake of the translator's personal tastes. You're seeing someone say "ser" in a medieval setting and frothing with outrage. Not everything is worth being mad over my friends, forced outrage is so fricking gay
I, unlike you, can actually read Japanese, and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt the translation is hot garbage. Nearly every line different from the Japanese, and I'm not talking about stylistic differences or grammatical transpositions. I'm talking whole ideas different. Honestly, the image in the OP should be enough to convince anyone the translators weren't being faithful. Hell, the fact that it's 8-4 doing it should be all the proof you need.
Terrible bait
Don't ever post dekinai-chan again, you filthy EOP.
>Actually play the game with Japanese VO and you'll see
You're not as good at Japanese as you think lol
I've seen the AI translations of doujins and you shills need to stop pushing that. It's trash.
Anon, those are done by some SEA monkey using Google Translate with no one proofing it.
And by allowing a "proofing" job you have now rehired localizers who no longer need to know anything but (eg) english and haven't the slightest clue what the original intent was.
proofing not needed
Not even remotely true. Your bogeyman localizer doesn't exist in all walks of life. Localizers were created to solve the issues that would result from people not knowing Japanese and later machine translators not knowing Japanese. Their job is irrelevant if a machine can do both better (and it can).
Localizers days are numbered. Their job is increasingly irrelevant and soon no one will want to buy their snake oil.
Hard keeping up with all these UO threads, I don’t know how you guys do it, but other than that I’ve never been more in love with a recent game than this.
Localizations that change a lot are not inherently bad in and of themselves. Naruhodo Ryuichi’s game would have sold like shit in 2001 and have no lasting impact in the west, the localization was necessary for it succeeding. “Eat your hamburgers” is a meme but doesn’t matter, while them having a guy talk in 1337 5p34k was stupid and aged terribly and would be a better thing to point at, but isn’t because most people who complain about it didn’t play the games. It was good overall but not perfect, done for the purpose of making a product that would perform better in the target market. What’s happening now is that after many cases of awful, atrocious localization, like FE Fates or worse, people are pointing at one that’s fine and acting like it’s the same. But it’s not the same, these are principally stylistic choices meant to put the player in a frame of mind that’s appropriate to the setting. That’s an acceptable choice for a localizer to make, and you can still disagree and say you would do otherwise in their place without acting like they’re doing it maliciously or to harm you. It’s especially dumb because, as said, there are many localizers who ARE acting maliciously and you should be directing your ire at them.
>Localizations that change a lot are not inherently bad in and of themselves
No, they're inherently bad. Fundamentally so. Didn't read the rest of your post, sorry.
You are wrong.
I'm right actually. Changing scripts to appease a hypothetical market is one of the worst reasons to change someone's writing. You know, Agnes Kaku felt without her writing on MGS2, Kojima's ideas wouldn't be received by the West. She believed that her changes made him seem and intelligent and sublime, then MGS3 came out. Turned out people liked Kojima's ideas even when they were translated faithfully.
But even if people didn't like his ideas, it doesn't matter. Changing the script misportays the intent of the author and his inherently dishonest to the audience.
>felt without her writing on MGS2, Kojima's ideas wouldn't be received by the West
That was the worst and most nonsensical mgs2 to me
Some of her early drafts were even worse, if you could believe it.
I believe it, I literally could not stomach that game.
What pisses me off is that, as someone who dabbled in translations as well, there are plenty of genuine reasons any translator could turn in something subpar, without it being a skill or ideological issue. Just from my own experience I've seen:
>strings just fricking dumped into an Excel spreadsheet with no context
>no access to the source material in its original format
>abhorrent length restrictions ("hey I know your language is roughly 40% longer than EN, but can you truncate this to 2/3 the character count?")
Any of these could and would be legitimate issues that may require alterations. Movie subtitles already sacrifice some amount of content to enforce their character-per-second quota. But no, there's just so much hubris and genuine malice that it poisons the well completely.
Nobody cares about your pathetic attempt at playing the "they're not all bad" card. Just like with leftists and just like with israelites, if they don't stop each other actively, that means they accept it and are complicit in it. You can't have nuance when you have a designated enemy, because you will lack the conviction to do what's necessary.
>Localizations that change a lot are not inherently bad in and of themselves.
Yes, they are.
>Naruhodo Ryuichi’s game would have sold like shit in 2001 and have no lasting impact in the west,
Not relevant to inherent quality.
>What’s happening now is that after many cases of awful, atrocious localization, like FE Fates or worse, people are pointing at one that’s fine and acting like it’s the same. But it’s not the same,
They are both bad for different reasons.
>these are principally stylistic choices meant to put the player in a frame of mind that’s appropriate to the setting
I don't want my frame of mind babysat by someone who thinks they can improve on the work by altering the context, I want authenticity.