Your question is flawed. You by definition can't have beaten them had you used a guide. You would have cheated. Similar to using savestates, GameShark hacks, cheat codes, etc.
what about when you are talking with your friends about a boss or something that you cant beat and someone tells you what you need to do? Is that cheating too you fricking homosexual?
What if your friend didn't read a guide, but got that information word of mouth across a chain 15 different people, and the last person in that chain used a guide? Is it cheating by being 17 people removed from a filthy game guide user?
Is there a Nuremberg Law for how many times it has to be removed from a game guide before its acceptable?
what about when you are talking with your friends about a boss or something that you cant beat and someone tells you what you need to do? Is that cheating too you fricking homosexual?
30+ anon here, played Zelda 2 to completion recently for the first time.
Zelda 2 is entirerly managable without guides assuming you pay attention to what people in town say, save some genuinely NES-cryptic bullshit parts toward the end of the game:
Which is getting to a town that is hidden in the woods (?) that for some reason can only be accessed by cutting down trees (???) with a hammer nobody has told you can be used for this and you have no reason to use ever in the first place save this one fricking spot (?????). This drove me bananas since I was going across every tile in the very suspicious enclave of trees behind the cave in the vain hopes of an invisible town, but nope - frick you for not trying this arbitrary bullshit.
But you know what? This part is legitimately adressed in the instruction book, so w/e - Its technically fair; I can't be too pissed off about it.
That one gay in this hidden town who will refuse to give you SPELL which you NEED in order to finish the game unless you have all the magic capacity upgrades. Fair enough, except he doesn't tell you this, he just rambles on about how powerful your magic needs to be before he'll teach you shit. Strange choice of words for a game where you literally can level up magic and this ISN'T the solution.
So you take this guy at face value and you grind out your magic to max level, only to find he still refuses to give you the spell you need.
So now, hours of grinding later and faced with no other possible meaning to his words, you settle on the only remaining possibility; Max out your magic capacity. Except you have literally no clue where the magic upgrades actually are and this butthole (And nobody else, for that matter) gives you no hints.
Maybe this shit could be reasonably deducted if they were always tucked away in caves, or in a suspiciously marked tile, so you'd know what to look for, kind of like the first one right outisde of Zeldas palace at the beginning of the game, right? Naaah, that'd be too easy - Lets stick one of these items NEEDED TO FINISH THE FRICKING GAME in a random ass tile on Maze Island that no player would ever have any reason to step on since its nowhere close to the palace on the island or the missing kids tile at the far end of it.
If this cryptic bullshit is the intended way, then /vr/ contrarians who defend this garbage can suck my balls, I'm looking it up and won't feel bad about it.
This isn't the 80s and I'm hanging out in a schoolyard with people discussing the latest Nintendo game.
Also >having friends
lmao get real homosexual
>inb4 ask for a hint from anons on /vr/
What possible hint could there be to the location of the magic container on maze island that isn't just outright telling you where it is or cryptic "hurr maybe go back to an old palace and comb every single tile around it :*~~*~~
>inb4 you didn't beat the game
In all likelihood, neither did you back in the 80s by your own definition. Unless by sheer stroke of luck you or your friends managed to trip over this one tile and told you about it (Which, in fairness, is not impossible) if this information was simply relayed to you and not discovered on your own, how is it any different from using a guide? Its "Organic?" You don't know if your buddy Timmy down the corner didn't just read it in Nintendo Power and relayed it to you which disproves the entire "don't use a guide" argument in the first place. An "Organic" guide like this is just as much of a crutch as a regular guide.
if you're really as old as you say then you would know how often you replayed games as a child, and incrementally discover things or get better as time goes by and thus get further in the game. if you try to play these with the attitude that youre owed an ending for playing it, or should be able to beat it out of persistence then you have entirely the wrong attitude going in. these games unravel the more you play. they expect you to revisit them and continue exploring years after first playing it. that sort of approach to design of course is lost today (where games are nice little packages taht take you from beginning to end and are more about a themepark ride experience), but if you were truly alive back then im not sure how this context has escaped you. there are games i've hd since my childhood that i still haven't beaten, but i still play them and hopefully one day will
That one gay in this hidden town who will refuse to give you SPELL which you NEED in order to finish the game unless you have all the magic capacity upgrades. Fair enough, except he doesn't tell you this, he just rambles on about how powerful your magic needs to be before he'll teach you shit. Strange choice of words for a game where you literally can level up magic and this ISN'T the solution.
So you take this guy at face value and you grind out your magic to max level, only to find he still refuses to give you the spell you need.
So now, hours of grinding later and faced with no other possible meaning to his words, you settle on the only remaining possibility; Max out your magic capacity. Except you have literally no clue where the magic upgrades actually are and this butthole (And nobody else, for that matter) gives you no hints.
Maybe this shit could be reasonably deducted if they were always tucked away in caves, or in a suspiciously marked tile, so you'd know what to look for, kind of like the first one right outisde of Zeldas palace at the beginning of the game, right? Naaah, that'd be too easy - Lets stick one of these items NEEDED TO FINISH THE FRICKING GAME in a random ass tile on Maze Island that no player would ever have any reason to step on since its nowhere close to the palace on the island or the missing kids tile at the far end of it.
If this cryptic bullshit is the intended way, then /vr/ contrarians who defend this garbage can suck my balls, I'm looking it up and won't feel bad about it.
>inb4 have friends
This isn't the 80s and I'm hanging out in a schoolyard with people discussing the latest Nintendo game.
Also >having friends
lmao get real homosexual
>inb4 ask for a hint from anons on /vr/
What possible hint could there be to the location of the magic container on maze island that isn't just outright telling you where it is or cryptic "hurr maybe go back to an old palace and comb every single tile around it :*~~*~~
>inb4 you didn't beat the game
In all likelihood, neither did you back in the 80s by your own definition. Unless by sheer stroke of luck you or your friends managed to trip over this one tile and told you about it (Which, in fairness, is not impossible) if this information was simply relayed to you and not discovered on your own, how is it any different from using a guide? Its "Organic?" You don't know if your buddy Timmy down the corner didn't just read it in Nintendo Power and relayed it to you which disproves the entire "don't use a guide" argument in the first place. An "Organic" guide like this is just as much of a crutch as a regular guide.
I was actually in the local news for beating the game as a 4 year old without a guide. I got threw the lost forest by accident unironcally I just kept going multiple directing in every order and then finally though maybe I have to keep going up and then I was thinking mabe I have to keep going forwad and then I was like frick this I am leaving and then I got out. My dad literally was freaking out and called the news and they put me on TV because everyone was trying to beat that game in Oklahoma at the time and I was the fist kid in the whole state to beat it. If anyone remembers this please don't say my name
Just google the lost forest otherwise you will be fricked. I mean I did it without a guide in the 80s when I was a baby but zoomers like you will never do something like that without a guide
Give me some graph paper so I can make a map for level 8 in zelda 1 (frick teleport mazes) and some maps for 2's later dungeons, but yeah. Looking up maps is basically the only reason I even "need" guides to beat these games anyway and I don't need them for most of the game.
There's an NPC in the bottom left of the overworld that tells you the path through the maze.
Getting to the second dungeon in Zelda 1 took me a couple of evenings. I still haven't cleared such dungeon properly because I get killed in one of rooms containing four towers and three projectile-throwing monsters. Wonder if clearing that room bears any good item.
I went through most of Zelda 2 without a guide as a kid. Came back to beat it years later and used a guide to remind myself where I was basically, and for the Great Palace. I'm sure I could've figured that out on my own too, but using Thunder on Thunderbird might've thrown me off. I'm sure I would've tried it eventually.
Zelda 1 came with this.
It says "You should only use (this) as a last resort".
You can beat the game without it - but pay close attention to (or write down) what the old man says.
Ignore the "Eastmost Pennisular", "Secret Power In Arrow", and Secret in tip of the nose" lines.
Those were made up by the translators.
No one on earth has ever beaten it without ANY guides, resources, friends or family telling them secrets.
On it's own LoZ is impossible to beat within a vacuum
Can you? Yes
Should you? Probably not.
I've never understood the hatred against using a guide. I like playing games. Sometimes there's obtuse bullshit I don't feel like smashing my face against for hours so I just look it the frick up.
Yes. I did it. had trouble with death mountain in 1 and finding this one spot but i beat both and even 100% 2. had to look at the manual for 2 and knew about a few secrets going in like where dungeon 7 and 8 are in zelda 1 and how to get past the river demon in 2.
probably not. i made a legit effort at zelda 1 to play without a guide and i think i beat the 4th dungeon before i could no longer find the dungeon entrances
My first time ever playing Zelda 2 was when a family member brought back the GBA version from Japan in Japanese and I beat it.
To this day I have no fricking clue how, especially with shit like the mirror under the table and hidden woods. Must have fumbled about a ton.
It also had that shitty quirk the US version fixed where upon game over/resetting your stats reset to the lowest possible level where they're all equal so you couldn't specialize in attack, you had to spread out levels evenly.
I can beat 1 without a guide, but it's only thanks to all the knowledge I accrued as a kid.
2, on the other hand, is something I had no childhood experience with and no acquired knowledge of going in and I beat it without a guide by drawing my own maps. It was a lot of fun and felt very rewarding.
Back in the day it was understood that you should be exploring every tile, trying every button and every item on each of them to find these secrets. Developers did this intentionally both to extend a games longevity and to promote full exploration of their work. It wasn't thought of as cheap or annoying. Back then we appreciated games and wanted to explore every nook and cranny and we had a great time doing it.
>Can you beat these games without using guides?
ahaha maaaan I almost beat 1 without help or guides... the two places I had to look up were:
1. the last dungeon entrance
2. last dungeon path to ganon
It kills me because in retrospec 1 is pretty obvious and 2 I actually made it to ganon the first time by accident, but then he beat my ass and I just couldn't find my way back aha.
I beat both without any external help a couple year ago and I'm a zoomer, it was fun drawing a map for Zelda 1
I gave up on the 2nd Quest though, still haven't looked anything up so I might return to it at some point
I can and have beat the game on the left, yeah. I could also beat the game on the right as well since it's just a shitty castlevania clone but I have more respect for myself than to pretend it's worth playing just because it's unpopular
Back in the day, yes. Nowadays, no. Back in the day, you stuck with a game because you had limited access to games, meaning you'd generally play any game you owned to not only completion but mastery. Nowadays, people have unlimited access to games and will not be patient enough to stick with a game when it stumps them.
yes because I did it a bunch of times as a kid (with guides, to some extent) already and I can't forget all that stuff
Will they filter me if I'm a zoomer?
The original will only filter you if you are moronic or have learned helplessness and can't figure even the simplest things on your own.
>Can you beat this without guides
>Yes because I beat it with guides
???
Zelda 1 is fine without a guide, 2 is very obtuse and cryptic
Your question is flawed. You by definition can't have beaten them had you used a guide. You would have cheated. Similar to using savestates, GameShark hacks, cheat codes, etc.
what about when you are talking with your friends about a boss or something that you cant beat and someone tells you what you need to do? Is that cheating too you fricking homosexual?
No, that is organic. Unless your friend cheated and used a guide, of course.
Being informed by other people is only cheating if it's in a magazine ok
What if your friend didn't read a guide, but got that information word of mouth across a chain 15 different people, and the last person in that chain used a guide? Is it cheating by being 17 people removed from a filthy game guide user?
Is there a Nuremberg Law for how many times it has to be removed from a game guide before its acceptable?
Yes.
Based!
Yes
have sex
>all those kids who got the original package with the map didn't actually beat the game
ok nerd
When I was a kid my dad taught me a lot of secrets and how to solve the puzzles, the manuals and npcs had a lot of hints.
The map that comes with the game says it should be used as a last resource
ok
1st quest of LoZ isn't THAT bad
2nd quest is
Yeah you just probably won't be able to find all the secrets which are optional
I can now. But when I played them for the first time? Hell no, especially the 2nd quest of Zelda 1, shit feels impossible to me
Sure I just talk to other kids at the playground who have played the game.
30+ anon here, played Zelda 2 to completion recently for the first time.
Zelda 2 is entirerly managable without guides assuming you pay attention to what people in town say, save some genuinely NES-cryptic bullshit parts toward the end of the game:
Which is getting to a town that is hidden in the woods (?) that for some reason can only be accessed by cutting down trees (???) with a hammer nobody has told you can be used for this and you have no reason to use ever in the first place save this one fricking spot (?????). This drove me bananas since I was going across every tile in the very suspicious enclave of trees behind the cave in the vain hopes of an invisible town, but nope - frick you for not trying this arbitrary bullshit.
But you know what? This part is legitimately adressed in the instruction book, so w/e - Its technically fair; I can't be too pissed off about it.
But you know what isn't fair?
That one gay in this hidden town who will refuse to give you SPELL which you NEED in order to finish the game unless you have all the magic capacity upgrades. Fair enough, except he doesn't tell you this, he just rambles on about how powerful your magic needs to be before he'll teach you shit. Strange choice of words for a game where you literally can level up magic and this ISN'T the solution.
So you take this guy at face value and you grind out your magic to max level, only to find he still refuses to give you the spell you need.
So now, hours of grinding later and faced with no other possible meaning to his words, you settle on the only remaining possibility; Max out your magic capacity. Except you have literally no clue where the magic upgrades actually are and this butthole (And nobody else, for that matter) gives you no hints.
Maybe this shit could be reasonably deducted if they were always tucked away in caves, or in a suspiciously marked tile, so you'd know what to look for, kind of like the first one right outisde of Zeldas palace at the beginning of the game, right? Naaah, that'd be too easy - Lets stick one of these items NEEDED TO FINISH THE FRICKING GAME in a random ass tile on Maze Island that no player would ever have any reason to step on since its nowhere close to the palace on the island or the missing kids tile at the far end of it.
If this cryptic bullshit is the intended way, then /vr/ contrarians who defend this garbage can suck my balls, I'm looking it up and won't feel bad about it.
>inb4 have friends
This isn't the 80s and I'm hanging out in a schoolyard with people discussing the latest Nintendo game.
Also >having friends
lmao get real homosexual
>inb4 ask for a hint from anons on /vr/
What possible hint could there be to the location of the magic container on maze island that isn't just outright telling you where it is or cryptic "hurr maybe go back to an old palace and comb every single tile around it :*~~*~~
>inb4 you didn't beat the game
In all likelihood, neither did you back in the 80s by your own definition. Unless by sheer stroke of luck you or your friends managed to trip over this one tile and told you about it (Which, in fairness, is not impossible) if this information was simply relayed to you and not discovered on your own, how is it any different from using a guide? Its "Organic?" You don't know if your buddy Timmy down the corner didn't just read it in Nintendo Power and relayed it to you which disproves the entire "don't use a guide" argument in the first place. An "Organic" guide like this is just as much of a crutch as a regular guide.
if you're really as old as you say then you would know how often you replayed games as a child, and incrementally discover things or get better as time goes by and thus get further in the game. if you try to play these with the attitude that youre owed an ending for playing it, or should be able to beat it out of persistence then you have entirely the wrong attitude going in. these games unravel the more you play. they expect you to revisit them and continue exploring years after first playing it. that sort of approach to design of course is lost today (where games are nice little packages taht take you from beginning to end and are more about a themepark ride experience), but if you were truly alive back then im not sure how this context has escaped you. there are games i've hd since my childhood that i still haven't beaten, but i still play them and hopefully one day will
why are you doing this??
>why are you doing this??
Durrr maybe some people want to avoid information about the game?
It's been awhile since I've done it but I'm confident I can do it again, LoZ more so than AoL.
Unless a developer posted a guide in a magazine, somebody must have beaten it.
I was actually in the local news for beating the game as a 4 year old without a guide. I got threw the lost forest by accident unironcally I just kept going multiple directing in every order and then finally though maybe I have to keep going up and then I was thinking mabe I have to keep going forwad and then I was like frick this I am leaving and then I got out. My dad literally was freaking out and called the news and they put me on TV because everyone was trying to beat that game in Oklahoma at the time and I was the fist kid in the whole state to beat it. If anyone remembers this please don't say my name
Sure thing Matthew
Just google the lost forest otherwise you will be fricked. I mean I did it without a guide in the 80s when I was a baby but zoomers like you will never do something like that without a guide
Give me some graph paper so I can make a map for level 8 in zelda 1 (frick teleport mazes) and some maps for 2's later dungeons, but yeah. Looking up maps is basically the only reason I even "need" guides to beat these games anyway and I don't need them for most of the game.
There's an NPC in the bottom left of the overworld that tells you the path through the maze.
I am talking about Zelda 1 lost forest genuis
You can get to the cemetery with the ladder, you don't actually ever have to enter the lost woods frames to complete the game.
Getting to the second dungeon in Zelda 1 took me a couple of evenings. I still haven't cleared such dungeon properly because I get killed in one of rooms containing four towers and three projectile-throwing monsters. Wonder if clearing that room bears any good item.
Most people who have played and beaten Zelda 1, and even those who know about Second Quest, have absolutely no earthly idea how brutal it really gets.
The invisible doors are what got me.
I went through most of Zelda 2 without a guide as a kid. Came back to beat it years later and used a guide to remind myself where I was basically, and for the Great Palace. I'm sure I could've figured that out on my own too, but using Thunder on Thunderbird might've thrown me off. I'm sure I would've tried it eventually.
Those two box covered are godly. Still among the best ever.
No but playing them with a guide is still fun
Zelda 1 came with this.
It says "You should only use (this) as a last resort".
You can beat the game without it - but pay close attention to (or write down) what the old man says.
Ignore the "Eastmost Pennisular", "Secret Power In Arrow", and Secret in tip of the nose" lines.
Those were made up by the translators.
so does that count as a guide for the question
As I said: You can beat the game without it.
No one on earth has ever beaten it without ANY guides, resources, friends or family telling them secrets.
On it's own LoZ is impossible to beat within a vacuum
LoZ sure, but I can't beat AoL. Not because I don't know/can't figure out what to do, but because I'm bad at the game.
Can you? Yes
Should you? Probably not.
I've never understood the hatred against using a guide. I like playing games. Sometimes there's obtuse bullshit I don't feel like smashing my face against for hours so I just look it the frick up.
Yes. I did it. had trouble with death mountain in 1 and finding this one spot but i beat both and even 100% 2. had to look at the manual for 2 and knew about a few secrets going in like where dungeon 7 and 8 are in zelda 1 and how to get past the river demon in 2.
Of course, they're games for children
Beat the original a handful of times without guides as a kid, never beat 2 but plan on doing that soon
yeah, but when extra heart containers/magic containers exist, why would i want to?
probably not. i made a legit effort at zelda 1 to play without a guide and i think i beat the 4th dungeon before i could no longer find the dungeon entrances
My first time ever playing Zelda 2 was when a family member brought back the GBA version from Japan in Japanese and I beat it.
To this day I have no fricking clue how, especially with shit like the mirror under the table and hidden woods. Must have fumbled about a ton.
It also had that shitty quirk the US version fixed where upon game over/resetting your stats reset to the lowest possible level where they're all equal so you couldn't specialize in attack, you had to spread out levels evenly.
I couldn't even beat Link's Awakening without a guide. I don't have the patience for this shit.
I can beat 1 without a guide, but it's only thanks to all the knowledge I accrued as a kid.
2, on the other hand, is something I had no childhood experience with and no acquired knowledge of going in and I beat it without a guide by drawing my own maps. It was a lot of fun and felt very rewarding.
Back in the day it was understood that you should be exploring every tile, trying every button and every item on each of them to find these secrets. Developers did this intentionally both to extend a games longevity and to promote full exploration of their work. It wasn't thought of as cheap or annoying. Back then we appreciated games and wanted to explore every nook and cranny and we had a great time doing it.
>Can you beat these games without using guides?
ahaha maaaan I almost beat 1 without help or guides... the two places I had to look up were:
1. the last dungeon entrance
2. last dungeon path to ganon
It kills me because in retrospec 1 is pretty obvious and 2 I actually made it to ganon the first time by accident, but then he beat my ass and I just couldn't find my way back aha.
I beat both without any external help a couple year ago and I'm a zoomer, it was fun drawing a map for Zelda 1
I gave up on the 2nd Quest though, still haven't looked anything up so I might return to it at some point
I can and have beat the game on the left, yeah. I could also beat the game on the right as well since it's just a shitty castlevania clone but I have more respect for myself than to pretend it's worth playing just because it's unpopular
Zelda 2 yeah, if five year old me and my mom could do it without a guide I think most people could too. Zelda 1 idk, there's the meat problem.
Yes because both games come with a map and a manual telling you where to go
I mean you're literally supposed to use the map to play the game, and that's sort of a guide. But yes I can do it without the map.
Watch out for israeliteS
2 yes
Back in the day, yes. Nowadays, no. Back in the day, you stuck with a game because you had limited access to games, meaning you'd generally play any game you owned to not only completion but mastery. Nowadays, people have unlimited access to games and will not be patient enough to stick with a game when it stumps them.