What are tgs thoughts on deck/card mechanics for RPGs? I've been working for a while in a mix of MTG meets StS, with Duel Master like HP and a Backpack sideboard to interact with. Card symbols add up to activate special effects or make "rolls". Is this something anyone would be interested in?
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Dunno if this count but I'm going to build decks as combat AI for npcs in the game. So different creatures have different sets of behavior that the PCs have to figure out.
This is what initially attracted me to the concept. My current thinking is players all have individual decks, then the GM has a World deck full of mobs and such, and can bring additional decks forth for important NPCs and bosses. Those additional decks could be "created" by playing important cards from the World deck, that way the GM could draw into these encounters. Another mechanic I have in mind is that when the GM decks out the World deck, they can at that point add new cards in, letting them raise the tension with things like bosses after the players have had a chance to familiarize themselves with the area. I also have a stacking system inspired by Digimon's inheritance effects, where a GM is incentivized to build a good hand for encounters, and there's a direct relation between loot rewards and power ups for the enemies that would drop them.
What I haven't been able to work out is how to have that loot idea and AI stacks (like say 4 variations of the same slime type, each with different moves) coexist in the same enemy stack. I might have to treat the loot idea like an enchantment outside the stack, but it could get cluttered.
The same stack complication applies for "Phase 2" variants, which might be better added to the stack after a predetermined point. Players will also have stacks, and in general the stacks double as HP, or lives, enough damage removing cards from the stack 1 by 1 and needing to be earned back by leveling up. Unique copies within one's stack would be the most valuable, with extra copies serving padding to one's core moveset.
Even if I don't go so complicated and card central, I really like the idea of using a deck as AI. In my situation, a hand would just serve some options within that limitation, and in a GM's case, alleviate some of the worry about being too hard on PCs since you're just working with what you've got.
it was great for Gamma World 7e
Card mechanics in games can be quite novel as it can be used to keep the pace of an encounter or combat going and imo gives a better sense of acting and reacting to a game.
The hard part is scaling it and keeping it relatively "balanced" as adding more cards and counter cards can remove the original benefit (look at modern magic decks - most of them are based around causing non-interactable conditions). Or you spend too much time resolving card stacks.
I'm currently experimenting trying to put together a card based 2d fighting game style combat system for fighting game RPG. Similar to UFS / Universus but without the foundation system (that would be incorporated in the character stats). I'm also Looking at other Games (like the mage Knight boardgame) to lift mechanics from too.
A few years ago I played around with the idea, and while not complete, felt I was reaching something that was playable. But what kinda killed the drive was the entire concept (or at least the idea I had) is you either limit yourself to how many cards are in the system so it's easy for a group to acquire all the cards they'll need, but at that point you can just create a Gloomhaven clone. Or, you have a expanding card list, but the main problem is that most groups aren't going to bother buying or printing them out, cutting them up and sleeving them even if it's free online.
Feel the time for such a game would have been around the height of the CCG craze, but don't let my disillusion ruin your dream if it makes you happy. Can also recommend checking out the Crusader class in Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords from D&D 3.5, as it had a mechanic that lend itself well to cards.
Yeah that's pretty much what I think about the whole making your cards and stuff. I've been playing online through all platforms since fantasy grounds got released (currently foundryvtt but I've pretty much used anything out there to play D&D).
My idea is to release it to TTS as it's probably the best platform for it and if I have the time make a Foundry system, which wouldn't be the first time and requires some times, but I'm 80% sure I could make it work.
Thanks for the support!
I don't think this ever made it to Spain! I'm gonna look into it, seems interesting. Thanks!.
>My idea is to release it to TTS as it's probably the best platform for it
Not an bad idea, might look into that myself. Who knows, maybe I revisit my own game. Unsure what a Foundry system is.
Foundry VTT, self hosted Roll20 but very customizable
I had a similar idea at one point. Different weapons/equipment/classes etc. would offer their own sets of associated cards the player could use. The resource system used to play cards would be endurance, which would naturally regenerate turn by turn.
In my concept, it wasn't 1 item = 1 card: one piece of equipment would instead give several different cards based on how it could be used. E.g., a large shield could be used for big blocks, bashes, covering someone else, etc.
Worse or more tech pick cards could have more symbols, making them better at out of combat or to pay for other triggers, so they remain useful
One more example
Some thoughts; are equipping melee weapons always a spell? Or magic because you gain the ability to alter damage type? If so, might consider the wording 'equipping melee weapons' to maybe 'Enchant item - weapon' if it alter's a held weapon properties, or 'Equipment - Weapon' if it's a general item.
Another though, and feel free to dismiss it: Are all skills/powers that push beyond human (baseline) capacities considered Arcane/spells? Asking because this can quickly determine how the system handles say; Swordsman of unusual skills, not everyone wants to be just an Eldritch knight. Which is another thing I really liked Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, it let you create martial characters that had options that seemed spell-like, without forcing them to be Paladins, Hexblade and the other arcane martial class from DnD (to use an example)
Wording is still very inconsistent, but that seems definitely better. That card is for the Elf race, which is a mix of martial and magic.
I don't intend to create any mechanical Martial vs Caster restriction, instead having tags activating effects. If you combine effects so your fighter smacks something so hard it reaps reality and teleports 30 feet away, up to you and the GM how you wanna roleplay it.
I was a huge fan of ToB back in the day, depending on the group we'd consider some stuff magical anyway or try to convert it to be more mundane so it made sense within the setting. For example, in one game we'd consider Firesnake magical and wouldn't go into antimagic areas, but another would be some kind of superhuman feat like Shishio from Rurouni Kenshin
Then something like 'Racial (or Species) ability' might be a better word tag, since it's a unique thing to different races (I assume). Would recommend having a standardized keyword/tag list which the cards adhered to.
If I may add another point, I would suggest altering the picture on Magic Weaponry. The character in it doesn't sell me that it's a elf, it looks very human (the ear is hard to notice amoung the flowing hair). Either a more elf like, holding a sword more in the foreground. Or perhaps something like this (picture attached) with a sword in the focus, blazing with magic (I made it look like it's in the middle of becoming enchanted). Hope this doesn't come of as an attack, you're much father ahead then I got with my own project, seeing the cards makes me excited to see the end results.
Not at all! Is awesome to get some feedback. Pretty much everything is slightly place holder, all art is MJ generated using 2ed art style authors, which makes a lot of images same-ish, most of it can be directly thrown away and replaced with art more related to the content like you suggest.
On the other topic, yeah, adding some racial there makes sens but for the same reason as with Martials vs Caster, I'm avoiding restrictive cards. The pack might be "Elf Race cards" or "Dwarf race cards", but I want it to be open so if you come with something like "My character race is also hard to kill" you can use the "Dwarven Toughness" card anyway, with it not being forced into "Racial - Dwarf" sinergies.
>but I want it to be open so if you come with something like "My character race is also hard to kill" you can use the "Dwarven Toughness" card anyway, with it not being forced into "Racial - Dwarf" sinergies.
Ah, I see. So each card is more or less race/class-agnostic. "Race [X] starts with these/usually gets" thing? Would suggest avoiding any description that indicate a specific playable race then, and more stuff like "Stones Endurance" or "Thick Hide" to use the Dwarf card as and example.
At the same time; Keep in mind that the more freely which cards you can pick, and which can interact with each other, the more likelihood you'll get insane meta builds at lower levels. Depending on how long a normal campaign lasts, you might want to include systems that prevents a level 3 character from keeping a fully grown Tarrasque as a combat pet, to use a D&D analogy.
>which makes a lot of images same-ish
Yeah, seeing as one of the strengths in CCGs is the visual distinction on each card. It might behoove you to early on veer away from having a lot of cards looking too similar to each other. Play around with having the characters not be in the center of the frame, pose them in action, or something that creates a figurative image of the card. To once again use Dwarven Toughness; It could be a sword shattering on a stone, or a bloodied dwarf charging towards a group on enemies.
Play around with not always go for the obvious, in the attached picture, both are depicting a Strong character you don't wanna brawl with. But one leans into it (Big muscle dude) or subverts it (small mouse throws big cat).
Exactly. I expect people to optimize it, just like you'd optimize other games, its not meant to ve a versus balanced game. Energy is meant to slow it down a bit.
Art is meant to help a bit now, priper arr will come later if ever, this is a hobby thing
Thanks again for the feedback, you guys are awesome
Forgot the card
Does the HP go to your hand? Are there shield triggers?
Shield triggers, they go to the hand. Retaliate triggers activate when going to hand (some card is free, some do other things)
Hm, why limit it to shield triggers in that case if all they do is go to hand? You could have any HP go to hand without a trigger and just call your triggers Retaliations.
Don't get me wrong, there's reasons to have 3 possible HP card results (no trigger, shield, retaliation), just suggesting for streamlining
I get why you would use cards in combat (acting and reacting in stressful situations is more instinctual than cerebral). But why would you you use the same cards out of combat? What's the ludo-narrative here?
How does taking 10 or taking 20 work in your system?
Having the character be de deck, for both solving things in combat and out of combat. You can imagine each symbol being a +5 total roll on a DnD game. Any "roll" made out of stress situations immediatly redraws a card, so you can basically guarantee it out of combat. Resting/taking time allows you to use the sideboard an mulligan, helping you do that "taking 20"
If it has to have dedicated cards, it's more like a board game than a proper RPG. Proper RPG should just need the book and your random generator of choice. *maybe* a photocopy of a character sheet if the game does some funky flowchart shit with that. Anything more and it's a board game
Higher "level" gameplay would allows you to use more cards on a roll, starting with just two, but allowing the GM control over the expected checks by modifying this. An epic adventure day could allow you an extra card and a slower story could restrict you to one card unless you dedicate time or preparation
How does the game "work"?
Do you shuffle and distribute health once at the start, or throughout a session?
Are there any rules outside the cards?
How big are decks?
What happens when you deck out?
How does the GM interact with the concept?
>Do you shuffle and distribute health once at the start, or throughout a session?
Start of day is a reset (shuffle everything, optional sideboard changes, draw, mulligan, set down your 5 HP cards, you can use pre/post mulligan cards as HP in order to trigger those Retaliations when damaged).
Rest of the day you may take a "Break", you reshuffle, redraw, still can use the sideboard or mulligan but unless you have a card that triggers on it, the HP remains.
>Are there any rules outside the cards?
Very few right now like what I just mentioned, I'm starting to make some rules on Difficulty for the checks and a few about movement, to make it zone/area based, no need to track miniatures, just where people are in the map
>How big are decks?
Still not sure, about 20-30 cards with 5-10 SB
>What happens when you deck out?
I tried a few iterations, right now, you shuffle the discard and continue, but I'm making GM cards that trigger on it
>How does the GM interact with the concept?
Creatures have already made stats that GM triggers with it's energy each turn (The pack of Goblins might have 3 HP, on 1 energy they deal 1 damage to everybody, 2 energy the shoot for 1 damage to everybody some distance away, etc), special GM cards allow him to deal effect or trigger things on players actions (Poisoned arrows that improve a ranged weapon attack, a curse for the dungeon that deals damage on decking out, discard effects, etc)
How does combat work?
Still doing lots of iterations, still not sure whether to go the classic draw and play or a faster deckbuilding discard excess and draw at the end of turn or just refilling.
Anyway, right now it plays a bit slow, you can setup items out of combat like armor or weapons. In combat you have 3 energy to play cards, defenses can be 3 types, activated, limited uses, or actions that require leftover energy. So your attacks either try to go for types the defender cant block, spam small attacks to overflow his activated defenses or special effects like requiring him to make checks to not get distracted or poisoned.
Some cards or situations might require check symbols to avoid/inflict the effect, like a contested Soul check to avoid being distracted or Body 2 to ignore the on hit poison
Attacks/Defenses have different tags to standarize a bit if it blocks or not, as in Melee/Ranged, Physical/Elemental or Area/Non-Area
A Full Plate blocks the next X points of Physical Damage
A Leather lets you block Area Attacks too
A Hide armor allows you to use Body to block cold
...
PF:ACG was fun.
Your stats were dice size, hand size was how much health you could lose in one hit, deck was your max health and needing to draw with zero cards is death.
Weapons retained in your hand to use again some had alternate uses like discard or bottom decking to support, spells generally went to the bottom of your deck to be redrawn later if you failed a check discarded instead, the rest of the deck was side bonuses for either combat and non-combat.
The more difficult the challenge the more resources it took to survive.
Shame paizo killed it after revising the rules with a 2nd edition.
I had an idea for a game where you use a deck of cards to represent your character instead of a character sheet. stats like strength and intelligence would work like energy in pokemon or lands in mtg and then you would have stance cards in place of your pokemon or creature cards. so for example you draw your hand and then play a strength card and an "offensive stance" card that lets you discard a card to make a normal attack or discard a card to make a power attack as long as you have at least one strength card in play. other abilities would be single use cards like a dodge card that cancels one attack. as your character levels up you get access to more powerful cards but your deck stays the same size. people didn't seem to like the idea though and I couldn't figure out how equipment should work so I didn't develop it any further.
Stats as land is a neat idea
How would you do mimics?
I haven't started with monster cards, but I expect them to be more Monster Manual like or multicard, a Mimic would be something like
Mimic - X HP
Bite 1 Energy: Deal 1 Physical damage, 2 if the target has been Swallowed.
Swallow 2 Energy: Target becomes Restrained and Blinded. A creature can pay BBB to free him. Only one swallowed creature at a time.
Checks to notice a hidden Mimic are made at -2
At the start of your turn and Retaliate, Mimic becomes a copy of any item play in addition to his other abilities it copies any token or enhancements on it
I'm looking forward to the gloomhaven rpg
Fiddly. Expensive. And not easy to houserule.
No.