The weird "Mega Man 3 is bad" sentiment I've seen around here (spawned from Youtube I think) has me stunned. I've been consistently playing NES games since the 80s and posting on the internet about them since the late 90s and I've NEVER seen anything resembling that opinion until the last year or two.
It got me thinking about what are some of the changes in popular opinion towards certain games that have occurred over the years?
Like, I remember in the aughts, you saw a lot of people saying (2D, Genesis) "Sonic was never good" which was something nobody thought back in it's day. It was also fashionable to say the Donkey Kong Country games sucked for a while there.
I feel like FFX's reputation was ruined completely by the laughing Tidus meme.
Nowadays you ask anyone if they played FFX and it's the first thing they bring up.
That's only the most famous example of the multitude of things people mock the game for.
It's not what I bring up. I bring up the absurd story of the Sad Soccer Player with his Big Bad Mean Daddy. FFX is an embarrassment.
Yeah, stories must never touch on family drama
Maybe play through the game for more than two hours before making your self look like a complete fool.
Nice try liberal
I too can post images I've found on the internet.
So you beat the game September 29th 2022. And you honestly think the game's story is good?
For the most part, yes: https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/9301019
I love the game, but only for the end game and otherwise think the story is mostly awful.
it's still sampled at raves xD
I miss the memes
>scene where characters have a silly moment where they attempt to force a laugh
>"Wow the voice acting in this game is so forced xD"
I fricking hate internet memes, they were never good not even back in 2008.
the remaster ruined its reputation
There was a while where people on /vrpg/ were shitting on Planescape: Torment saying it's "basic" compared to the stuff Ganker pretends to read. Everywhere else on the internet (including literary snob circles) praises that game so it came off as extreme contrarianism.
The people who act like Civ stopped being good after 4 are also pretty revisionist.
>The people who act like Civ stopped being good after 4 are also pretty revisionist
How so? To be fair, 5 never clicked for me, while 4 is at least enjoyable, albeit not as much as 2/3/CTP. The newer entries almost feel like a soft reboot to cash in on whatever paradox is up to.
I just think V and VI are good. Every mainline Civ game except the first one is.
The first game is unironically better than V and VI. 1UPT completely ruined the series.
better than doomstacks, much more tactical and terrain plays a bigger role
Fair 'nuff. 5/6 aren't worst game evar material, but
this and changes in how cities worked (expand at all costs vs small number of huge cities) made for a surprisingly big difference in feel. If you like it, then rock on. I'm probably going to stick with the "muh 1-4 best" camp.
Its hard to get around just saying 1upt nukes single player. Its boring to keep reiterating it but it's just like flipping the "AI can't ever attack a human player without being ripped to shreds" switch
Pretending that Mega Man Legends is good. Nobody liked that cringe piece of shit back in the day. Everybody wanted a straight through 3D platformer.
I don't understand how people had that opinion. It's a super innovative and clever game with tons of interesting interactions and stuff to find. Like, I don't understand how someone could find out that the buildings that you let be destroyed in the toku fights are things you can restore and rebuild to access their interiors and associated quests and not find that totally cool.
people dont like tank controls so they hated it then and they especially hate it now.
After playing so many modern games with homogenized controls learning to play something with different controls is fun enough for me though. It also helps that the game has a great aesthetic too
It doesn't even have tank controls, you can strafe in MML.
that's still tank controls bro..
Tanks can't arbitrarily move sideways mate. Mega Man Legends has WASD, idk what you're talking about
The game having some neat quirks does not excuse the shit main gameplay.
This
>colour is le bad
and people wonder why we got decades of brown and grey games
MM3 is certainly the laggiest one, but it's a perfectly fine mega man game. it introduces the slide, you can't charge yet, music is top notch as always, and ...not much else really sticks out. it's absolutely unhinged if people think its WAY BETTER or WAY WORSE than 1, 6, or any of them really.
you shut your prostitute mouth Legends is amazing, the vibe is off the charts. it's such an immersive world and story. i feel like they blew the budget on the town though, the dungeons having like one fricking wall texture is shit i'll give you that, but give me this lovely game over N64 zelda any frickin day of the week.
Frick you. You have no idea how much I looked forward to this game coming out and it fricking delivered. It's still one of my favorite games to this day.
I did want a 3D Mega Man, which we still haven’t gotten. I didn’t like MML but I loved MML2 for being more RPG-like.
Bro it would have been so fricking sick if we got a 3D version of the nes megaman games
I imagine Bomberman Hero but with megaman assets
You did, it was called Megaman X7. You're welcome.
I bought that for $5 15 years ago and still felt ripped off.
>(spawned from Youtube I think)
I doubt Mega Man as a series is relevant enough for there to be a meme opinion about some of its games. I've always thought that 3 was the weakest out of the NES games
>I doubt Mega Man as a series is relevant enough for there to be a meme opinion about some of its games
Anon, were you alive from the years 1997 to 2009 or so? If you were, you'd have seen Mega Man treated the same as Mario and Pikachu and Link and [insert basic video game mascot everyone knows and has played at some point]. Every living male between the age of maybe 28 and 44 have played a Mega Man at some point in their life, and maybe even a decent amount of girls (only basing that on one I knew in school, and the webmaster of mmhp.net, Mandi Paugh). 2 and X are the most likely to be remembered, but 3 was up there too. The Mega Man cartoon spawned a number of memes (derp), and you had tons of Mario Paint videos, youtube poop, song mashups, niconico, that brentalfloss guy, etc. All of that was incredibly popular and well known before the internet was flooded by 3rd worlders and bots.
Did I fall for bait? Is this bait? I really hope so. I'd rather be a moron than believe someone actually thinks this. Just because Mega Man isn't relevant anymore doesn't mean it was always the case.
>I've always thought that 3 was the weakest out of the NES games
Why? Just curious. It's fair if you really think so. Snake Man's theme song alone blows 6 out of the water, and the stages are a step up from 1 and 2. I still prefer 7 and Zero but 3 is pretty fun and maybe my favorite NES release.
You're massively overinflating Megaman's popularity, he was always mid tier popular like Spyro or Pacman.
NTA but he’s right. Mega Man really was that big at one point. There’s a reason they made so many spin-offs of it. It was probably the most popular third party franchise 8 and 16 bit eras and it was still very popular for a long time after that. I remember hearing kids talk about it as late as the early 2010’s.
NTA and I wasn't alive in the 80s but I was a GBA kid and Mega Man Battle Network was extremely popular and the whole series ranks among the best selling games on the platform. The anime and manga were also extremely popular. Mega Man was a big character back in the day, and MMBN was just a spinoff and an already popular franchise.
His popularity was near Mario/Sonic levels for a while.
Peak Mega Man was 2003. In just that year, there were 17 Mega Man games. Fricking SEVENTEEN.
Rockman Collection Special Box, X7, Battle Network 3 Black, Battle Network 4 Red Sun/Blue Moon, Network Transmission, Rockman EXE WS, Rockman EXE N1 Battle, Battle Chip Challenge, Zero 2, and seven phone games.
All in 2003.
Can you name any other video game series that had seventeen releases in one calendar year? I can't.
Just because it has a lot of shovelware doesn't mean it was actually popular.
>Just because it has a lot of shovelware doesn't mean it was actually popular.
They said the same thing about Princess Toadstool
>a popular thing I don’t like is shovelware
I meant relevant right NOW because OP is talking about people taking their opinions from Youtube e-celebs. Obviously it was popular back in the days.
>Why? Just curious. It's fair if you really think so
I don't know I just enjoy playing it the least, I hate the Doc Robot stages as well. It's still a good game but I think 4-6 are better than it in every way. As for 1 and 2, I enjoy the simplicity of them and they introduced me to the entire MM franchise which I am a big fan of
>1
rough proof of concept
>2
the classic
>3
refined mechanical peak of the series
>4
ruined the series with megabuster
This is always what the assessment seemed like to me. 2 and 3 trading places based on aesthetics vs raw gameplay.
>4
>ruined the series
>This is always what the assessment seemed like to me.
When you made it up just now? 4 is a universal favorite.
No idea where this comes from either. The buster is well-meaning but it's so poorly implemented here. They tried to compensate for it's added power by jacking up enemy HP but it ends up slowing the entire game down. The bosses and weapons are starting to get lame at this point and it probably the weakest set of castles too, both 5 and 6 surpass it easily.
Well, right here
and here
for starters. There was a thread here a week or two ago that had lot of people trashing on it which was my motivation for the thread.
No idea who the DKC journalist was but I remember Jeremy Parish not being fond of it.
It is, some moron here trying to spin terrible implementation of resource management as a plus opposed to new mechanics because MUH NINTENDO HARD.
Also 4 had based as frick Robot Masters.
>MUH NINTENDO HARD
Actually I'm glad when someone says that 4 is the hardest because it's objectively true as opposed to circlejerking 1's difficulty. 1 isn't even harder than 2 if you play the regular version (Japanese/US Hard mode). Yellow Devil is also a fricking meme, like for instance MK-II from 3 is way more challenging and yet no one mentions this
It's easily the worst of the 6 NES games (OK, maybe 1 is worst). It's better than 7 and 8 though but that's a low bar.
>Hates 1
Shit-Shit Taste: Awakening
I didn’t say I hate it but it’s objectively worse than the other NES games except maybe 4. You’re fricking blind if you can’t see that
>it's objectively worse because....NOT ENOUGH AIRMAN MEMES!!
Someone put 2tards to concentration camps, please.
Glad you’re retreating to
>”buh buh it’s sucks because it’s beloved enough to have memes!”
You really don’t have a leg to stand on, you know I’m right. Go to sleep junior.
>You really don’t have a leg to stand on,
Speak for yourself, moron. Make more baseless elsewhere.
>another 2cult homosexual with a shit-tier opinion
>4
>replace dr willie with dr wienerass
Evil russian scientists are more interesting than evil Germanic scientists.
>ruined the series with megabuster
when 2 lets you spam the metal blade?
I like 3 the most as well, there's several things I dislike about 4 but the buster never bothered me, then again to be fair I started with Mega Man X
>NEVER seen anything resembling that opinion until the last year or two
The Great Clement as far back as 2009 said he just inputs a password to skip the Doc Robot levels
>The weird "Mega Man 3 is bad" sentiment I've seen around here (spawned from Youtube I think) has me stunned.
It's a bad game when compared to other NES Mega Man games, to where I feel like Ganker sucking it off is just blind contrarianism. It's very blatantly unfinished.
Outside of that, I feel like Sonic generally has been taken more negatively over time. Even Heroes and Shadow for instance were seen as flawed but decent games, but now they're treated like they're some of the absolute worst games of that generation.
Eh FF8 has somewhat bounced back over the years. If any of them has received more hate over time, I'd say it's FF9.
Shadow was never seen as a decent game, Heroes is overhated now though, yeah
Okay not really decent, just not 'worst game of the generation'.
>Even Heroes and Shadow for instance were seen as flawed but decent games
You weren't alive back then.
I was, and I still have Player's Choice copies of both.
>Even Heroes and Shadow for instance were seen as flawed but decent games
Maybe it was just the video game message boards I was frequently back then, but when those games were new people reviled them. I've actually seen people having a much more positive view of Heroes than I was ever used to seeing as of late.
>but now they're treated like they're some of the absolute worst games of that generation.
I don't see it. It's treated like a hilarious mess which because it's part of a well known sega franchise specifically sonic gets the derision amplified. purely as a game people probably regard it like a 5/10. a meh platformer.
>Mega Man 3 is the worst NES Mega Man game
>Shadow is a decent game!
HAHAHAHAHA
Not that guy, but what do you consider the worst NES Mega Man game? I see a lot of people call 6 the worst, and I don't totally disagree seeing as they fricked up how sliding works and the charge shot just uses a wimpy normal shot sound. But the Power Adaptor is fricking cool.
nta either but 6 is a step up from 4 and 5. The power adapter is a gimmick and the entire game is based around it (and it has really weak master weapons) but you know what? It's a lot of fun running around and punching shit, and I really like the physics of the jet adaptor. I wouldn't want the entire series to be based on the adaptor but for one game it's fine.
I never said Shadow was decent personally because I think it's actually good but that doesn't invalidate 3 being the worst. Shit, I'd rather play Rockboard than 3 again.
Im still mad MMPU didn't take off.
>If any of them has received more hate over time, I'd say it's FF9.
In what fricking world? People glaze FF9 all the time
I don't think FF9 is anyone's favorite but it's hardly a controversial game, yeah
I know someone whose favourite is 9
Well you just blew my argument out of the water.
That someone is me.
>Heroes and Shadow were decent
Iirc they were seen as 7/10 and 6/10 respectively, ie. Average/mediocre.
Shadow was laughed at for being cringey
I hated Heroes, it controlled like shit and looked weird. Story was a letdown. I must have been 13ish
Many people in 2000s were saying that Tengen's NES Tetris was better than Nintendo's NES Tetris. Nowadays the latter is held as a classic, while the former is effectively forgotten, even in general retro gaming circles.
I always hated the game and thought it was the worst of the original six. But yeah, it wasn't that long ago that MM3 was considered the best. MM2 felt like it was getting trashed a lot around that same time too and I remember that being considered the absolute best one in the 2000s.
I remember this. Wonder if it was because of hoarders finding out how rare it was and astroturfed it to make it more valuable.
Zelda 2 hatred has been around for as long as I can remember. Definitely sometime after OOT came out though. No one minded how different it was beforehand.
>Tengen's NES Tetris was better than Nintendo's NES Tetris.
But anon... Tengen Tetris is superior. Better presentation, music, and you can play simultaneously with a friend instead of having to take turns.
>astroturfed it to make it more valuable.
See above but yeah glad I picked my copy up when I did. Stupid expensive nowadays.
nintendo tetris is more popular now thanks to the rise of zoomers competing, and the "rolling" technique
I thought Mega Man 3 was bad before it was popular.
I wonder how many changes are due to shifting opinions and not just too many contrarians and Youtubers dominating a certain topic.
I don't recall anyone hating on Castlevania 2 prior to AVGN's first episode. Most people liked it.
Not sure when the hate for Zelda 2 started showing up, it was always the black sheep but most people still liked it.
Absolutely agree with this. I was what, 11-12 y.o. when these games were current? Everybody liked them, same thing with SMB 2. At the very least, the kids who did not enjoy them were a tiny minority.
Donkey Kong 64
Goldeneye 007
Yoshi’s Island
Kid Icarus
Excitebike
Those are some games I’ve seen people love years ago, and now more people are starting to talk shit about them
It's crazy how much influence e-celebs have when it comes to general perception of media.
I don’t need a TDS schizo to tell me FF8 is a bad game with a nonsensical plot
>Mega Man 3 is bad
I'm not calling you a liar but I personally have never heard this claim around here.
>It was also fashionable to say the Donkey Kong Country games sucked for a while there.
Does anybody else remember that hit piece where some moron gaming "journalist" tried to pretend that Miyamoto hates DKC and that he has seething rage over the game because it beat out HIS idea for the 16bit Konkey Dong?
FFVII was beloved for most of the 2000’s, then everyone hated throughout the 2010’s and you only ever heard about how “overrated” it was and now people are starting to like it again. A similar thing is happening with Ocarina of Time but it’s a few years behind.
>then everyone hated throughout the 2010’s
??????????????
He probably gets all his opinions from Ganker.
There was a bit of negative pushback due to the game's incredible popularity (fangirls squeeing about Sephiroth) and the mostly crappy Compilation Of Final Fantasy VII stuff.
Yeah, the complilation of FFVII pretty much soiled the hyped for it.
The hype for FF7 was so insane, and its fans were so insane, that there was strong backlash for years. Now the backlash has faded somewhat and zoomers are buying into the hype cycle
Most of it is people trying to manipulate prices of games they want to purchase. Such as most hobbies. The poors will do anything to ruin your interests just so that they can try to get something for free.
This is exactly what happens with the Saturn and this board.
The average /vr/ goer would kill for a Sega Saturn but they will never admit it.
That theory would make sense if MM3 hasn't always been the cheapest and most common entry in the series. Now if they were shit talking 1 or 5 trying to knock prices down, then your theory would be valid.
Mario Kart 64, I've seen a lot of negativity towards it and I still dont know why, the game is super fun even if its single player is lacking, I know DKR and CTR have mayor improvements but MK64 is still really fun and imo its a much better multiplayer game than those two.
On sort of a related note, Double Dash also went from being considered shit to the best one in the series and I absolutely disagree with that new sentiment.
Fromsoft games now seen as cult classics and hidden gems because retroactive souls aura, king's fields were either flops ignored by everyone or got trashed in the press
Blood gaining more notoriety than Duke Nukem 3D
Fallout 1 is better than 2, Fallout 2 is bloated and the humor is too self aware
>Fromsoft
Y'know, I did enjoy Dark Souls, but that was a real "one and done" experience for me. I can't imagine playing playing something like that but more primitive.
Good point with Blood. I barely ever saw people talking about it 15 years ago, especially irl or on gaming related media, and now it has become this grand old classic. I used to come across mentions of Hexen more often than Blood. Nevertheless, it is a good game and well worth the reappraisal.
Blood was mid then and it’s mid now.
The enthusiasm for absolutely mid FPSes, to the point that Witchaven got a rerelease, is a little nuts to me
I never understood the love for it. I dropped it midway through the second episode when it got rereleased a few years back before the pandemic. It was one of the most boring and tedious games I've ever played.
any game with an aesthetic that well realized is going to develop a cult following.
Not surprised. Normies tend to be moronic.
>blood is le normie game
you little homosexual
>Fallout 1 is better than 2, Fallout 2 is bloated and the humor is too self aware
but that's true
Blood > Duke
Fallout 1 > Fallout 2
I first noticed this with FFVII suddenly being a terrible game one day and FFVI was the greatest game ever from 2006 - 2014. Then enough time had passed for people to say they liked FFVII again and unironically started seeing "FFVI is overrated" after and it keeps getting stronger each year.
>Then enough time had passed for people to say they liked FFVII again and unironically started seeing "FFVI is overrated" after and it keeps getting stronger each year.
A lot of that is because of how obnoxious VI fans were for years. It was impossible to have any discussions about FF in general without them coming in and screaming about VI being the best thing ever and VII being overrated trash. In retrospect, VI probably is my favorite FF game but I try not to say that too loudly because I don’t want to be associated with those obnoxious FFVI fans.
Sonic is much slower than Mario if measured in possible inputs per playtime. Play with emulator rewind and you'll see Sonic is often on-rails for multiple seconds at a time, whereas Mario controls frame-by-frame. This makes Mario more fun.
The Resident Evil remake (REmake), considered by many to not only be the best RE game but the best survival horror game ever made, has only recently seen an autistic effort to claim it "ruined" the original.
You've seen him. We've all seen him.
I have not seen "him" and do not know who this "him" is that you're referring to. In my book, REmake is still the king of all RE games.
Yeah, I've seen the anon you're referring to. Obvious revisionism and anons who like to be contrarian see his spam and think it's becoming a popular opinion and start taking it seriously. It's nonsense. It's a fantastic remake and should be the gold standard. I prefer the original, but it's still fantastic.
It's not just one person; even back when it was new I remember joking with my friends about how the candles never melt and "why did the zombies light the candles anyway lol." And there were remarks on how the mansion went from a place that somebody maybe actually lived in to now looking like one of those pay-to-enter Halloween mazes, not that it was a bad thing 'cuz we'd all played RE1 plenty and were excited to see a completely new take on familiar territory.
You do know you have a distinct writing style and sayings, right? You are the exact anon, that other anon you were responding to wrote about. It's blatant to anybody.
Crimson heads were fricking terrible concept, that added a lot of unnecessary busy work and that is why I rather play the original
this except the exact opposite
Crimson heads were fricking amazing concept, that streamlined the gameplay and that is why I rather play Resident Evil 6
the N64. the level of hate and anger for it is amazing.
I have noticed that on this board at least. Some people just want to console war forever, but I remember the console war being limited to just the SNES vs. Genesis. Then a resurgence with PS3 vs. 360. Perhaps it's just cyclical and there's a new group that hasn't learned the folly of console warring yet.
what the frick do ps3 vs 360 arguments talk about? they share 98 percent of the same library, they have the exact same features and EQUIVALENT specs.
what the frick is there to argue about?
I don't know. I think it's that they were both butthurt about losing to the Wii and didn't want to be in last place. Personally, I just preferred the PS3 because it's online features were free.
As someone who owned a PS3 and never owned a 360, my understanding is that the 360 versions of multiplats were generally better than PS3 like 90% of the time, like in terms of performance/framerate. The only real benefits of getting PS3 versions of multiplats were:
>sometimes, to make up for the performance issues, the PS3 version had extra exclusive bonus content (Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean 4, Tales of Vesperia, the Joker levels in Batman: Arkham Asylum, etc)
>a multiple disc game on 360 is only a single disc on PS3, since PS3 used Blu-rays and 360 still used regular DVDs (Final Fantasy 13, Grand Theft Auto 5, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, etc)
>free online multiplayer on PSN vs having to pay for Xbox Live
Depends on what you wanted out of the system.
I saved my money for TWO YEARS to buy one on launch day when I was in early high school.
Mario 64 was, and still is, one of the greatest games ever made. Ocarina of Time still blows my mind, and Mario Kart was amazing. ....and that was about it.
The problem was this:
SNES gave me upgraded, incredible versions of my favorite NES games: Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Mega Man, Castlevania, Contra, Ninja Turtles, Final Fantasy. Not to mention that SNES had Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat by this point.
So, I expected N64 to do the same thing SNES did. Which it did... for all of two of those. None of the games I wanted were showing up. The problem is, early in the N64's life, Nintendo believed (very wrongly) that the only way to ensure quality control was to tell all 3rd party developers to go climb a tree, and only release 1st party games on the system. But I never got a Metroid 64. And I'm not gonna lie, I am salty to this day that Macross Crystal Dreams never materialized.
Then I looked over at this Playstation thing that Sony is putting out.
Mega Man 8
Mega Man X4
Castlevania SOTN
Street Fighter ports
FINAL. FANTASY. FRICKING. SEVEN.
so I bought a PS1, and never looked back. I have not paid for a Nintendo console since. I recognize that every Nintendo console since has a half dozen truly amazing games, but it's just not enough to warrant opening my wallet.
Additional side note:
I never had any issue with the N64 controller. it was innovative for its time, and worked great for the games on that system. I have always felt that anyone shitting on the N64 controller is just a moron spouting memes.
>appealing to populism on an anonymous website
Irony
I remember a brief period when I first found message boards in 2002 until about 2004 when the Sega Genesis Adventures of Batman & Robin's music was universally hated online because it didn't sound like the show.
Sonic CD was considered the greatest game in the Sonic franchise all throughout the 90s and it was a damn shame because it was on expensive hardware no one could afford and nobody could emulate sega cd games until 2007 or so and by the time everyone got Windows, they couldn't play Sonic CD on it because it was too old, until 2005 when the Sonic Gems Collection came out on GC and PS2 where a good chunk of the fanbase both flocked too. After that compilation came out, the general consensus was that it was actually terrible.
I reread these pages every day for after school until I got Mega Man Legends for Christmas.
God the Mega Man Legends games are so comfy, those and Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon are just the definition of late-90's comfiness in game form. I play them and I'm back in 1998.
Is there even such a thing as popular opinion anymore? I get the feeling that all opinions exist simultaneously with equal merit in todays social media age. All games are good all games have fans no games are bad let people enjoy things everyone is entitled to their opinion all opinions are valid.
lay off the vanilla facebook chuddery a bit. that's proven wrong simply with alien colonial marines existing.
There are a small handful of games 99% of people agree are good and another they agree are bad but aside from that, no. Popular opinion is completely fragmented now. And this is true of everything, not just video games.
>There are a small handful of games
ridiculous understatement
It’s an understatement for the amount of games everyone agrees are bad but it’s an overstatement for the ones everyone agrees are good.
The return of Sonic to mainstream popularity is perhaps the most miraculous comeback story of this century. Someone should truly make a documentary.
Mario Sunshine used to be regarded as the worst 3D Mario games and one of the worst mainline Mario games overall. Zelda Twilight Princess also used to be universally hated. Over the last five or so years there's been a near-180° flip on them, mainly because of zoomers who grew up playing them.
>Zelda Twilight Princess also used to be universally hated
You mean loved on release for not being Celda
No, once it got beyond the hands of journos it was pretty universally hated. It has incredibly little worthwhile or meaningful exploration for a Zelda game.
TP hate is basically driven by OoT fans who can’t cope with the fact that TP does everything Ocarina does but better. That’s why you see the full court press by people hating TP whenever it comes up.
I hate TP because the wolf sections are fricking boring and the world is bland as frick. I still haven’t beaten it, but plan to do it eventually.
>It has incredibly little worthwhile or meaningful exploration for a Zelda game.
Oh I thought we were talking about TP and not Ocarina of Time.
Wagglan
(You're too much of a newbie to know this phrase)
In terms of online consensus, "the best FF" has never been up for debate. The answer has always been 7 for the overwhelming majority of people. 10 is to zoomers what 7 was for millennials.
Haha. What.
FF7 was always contested because you had the nostalgia ridden FF6 people come out of the wood work and try to explain to me why the World of Ruin isn't shit and Kefka is the best villain cause he's LE CRAZY
6gays have always been an extreme minority, and really only came into being in the 2010s. At most you'd see hipsters try and argue that 5 was the best, but that's it.
TP was also on GameCube, never mind that Nintendo fans would be the least likely to complain about motion controls
>10 is to zoomers what 7 was for millennials
I'm not saying zoomers didn't grow up on 6th gen, but I really doubt they were old enough to like a game such as FF10 back in the PS2 days.
Agree with Mario Sunshine. It is the worst Mario 3D game. Not a bad game, but it's WAY to loved these days. TP was always mixed, not universally hated. But it is too highly praised these days, I agree.
Twilight princess
>universally hated
You are on drugs. Windwaker was shit on specifically because fans wanted something like TP. It was highly anticipated and got glowing reviews by both critics and players and sold a shitload.
>and got glowing reviews by both critics and players
8.8
>8.8 is a low score to this anon
IGN score inflation is real.
homie, it used to be memed to hell and back
It's funny because if anything, 8.8 feels too high for it nowadays. Nintendo fans are psychotic.
I feel like people are missing the factor that the REVIEW was terrible and was rightly shat on for implying that TP's problem was that Zelda was inherently just stale, rather than that TP was an exceptionally unimaginative entry that lacked the stand out creative aspects of the series' best games. The score was actually inflated, but the review didn't justify it even as it was by clarifying the game's actual problems.
I'll by fair and acknowledge that it may have been difficult to identify exactly where the game went wrong immediately on release, but it was still a bad work of criticism, despite being 'better' than the other review by at least being honest that this was no masterpiece.
People hated Wind Waker because of the cartoony art design. Toon Link was despised for being too "kiddy".
People hated TP for the brown + bloom graphics, incredibly linear and easy gameplay, and the reliance on the wiimote. Same as Skyward Sword. The only people who like it now were the 9 year old who had their sexual awakening watching Midna dominate Link.
>reliance on the wiimote
TP isn't even an obnoxious waggler, not that Nintendo fans would criticise a Wii game for using the Wiimote
Everyone over the age of 12 repeatedly dunked on the Wii for "wagglan gimmicks". And any game with motion controls whatsoever was thrown into the 'casual' bin.
As I said in my original post, TP has undergone massive historical revisionism from the zoomies who grew up with the game and have never played any earlier Zeldas. I remember how basically every new Zelda game that launched from 2001 to 2015 was considered a new low for the franchise, which is why BotW was such a big deal when it was announced. A "return to form" soft reboot after years of malaise and gimmicks.
I swear back on early 2000s forums, people did not misinterpret the Tidus laughing scene because there was no avenue for them to view it out of context yet (TOP 10 epic funniest gaming moments on youtube). Now people who havent played or barely remember the game reference that moment as if it's the silliest moment in gaming
Yes it is a goofy scene but it makes much more sense in relation to what comes before/after it. Not even a game worth caping for but zoomers acting moronic gets me going
What internet were you on? I feel like by especially 2008 the laughing scene began to make everyone really bash FFX. Considering it one of the best FF games for a long while was a hot button topic because people had their ready made responses without playing the game.
By 2008 sure, once Youtube existed and 7 years after the game came out. I just think there are a dozen better things to shit on that game for than a slightly cringe cutscene, and when people latch onto that over the other faults, it makes me think they're zoomers who talk about games they haven't played
>zoomers are the ones rewriting history in favor of 90s nintendo consoles
uh huh.
>Like, I remember in the aughts, you saw a lot of people saying (2D, Genesis) "Sonic was never good"
That wasn't common in the aughts. It started around 2016/17 when the Red Letter Media guys said it in a youtube video.
I used to post on some middlebrow gaming forum(I think it was the one attached to Jeremy Parish’s old site) and “Sonic always sucked” was absolutely a common opinion there. It was also my first hint I had nothing in common with these people.
blump
The sonic not being good meme is just the endgame of the sonic blackpill, it's only a thing because the outlook of the series in the mid 2000s was that fricking grim and sonicgays are moronicly easy to blackpill.
In seriousness, Sonic was pretty good, and he's getting pretty alright now. Most people who say otherwise are just blackpilled gays or shitty contrarians trying to stir up shit.
Mega Man 3? I've even been seeing "Mega Man 2 is bad actually," which leaves MM1 as the uncontested king of the initial NES trilogy. Funny since I distinctly remember the consensus being "whether you think 2 or 3 is better is personal taste but we can all agree they shit all over 1."
On the topic of Sonic, though, the perception of Amy Rose took a complete 180. She was understood to be a joke character. Basically pink npc fanatic in a dress who's only good for upskirts, showing that our boy don't have time to slow down for ditzy b***hes. She even has a gag toy hammer to represent her fickle whimsy. But now that hammer was forged by the Gods and can outknuckles Knuckles. Now she can do anything she puts her mind to (except get a blue quickie but hey). Now she's an example of a strong female role model. Now she can run and jump like the boys, which begs the question - if she can keep up, what the hell's Sonic's problem that he can't tap that ass?
>Now she can run and jump like the boys
ludonarrative dissonnance
doesn't exist, just a fancy term a shit writer came up as an excuse for shit writers
it does. if you're actually going to whine about "lore inconsistency" because characters change top speed and abilities in games you're moronic. they made amy fast because they wanted her to work well with the games co-op. they made her slow in 06 because they wanted it to feel more "realistic". its that simple. cant believe people are actually whining about this.
Secret of Mana gets a lot more shit lately, especially on /vr/. I still think it's great.
I'm a big Secret of Mana fan and people's opinions seem whether they played it or not around it's original release. I feel like if you played it as a kid, you're better able to adjust to the game's mechanics and rhythm.
A lot of people pick up the game now and assume it's like a modern "Mash X to win" action-RPG and it's really not like that at all.
Any kind of trial and error or you have to memorize something has now become automatic bad game/level design. If you can't no death blind beat a game on your first run, then it's a bad game with no "skill" (this is also why Sonic is supposed to be bad).
I don't really remember infinity style rtwp systems being almost ubiquitously hated.
I had a NES new as a kid and the Mega Man games, the sentiment is correct, Mega Man 3 was bad compared to 2. Mega Man peaked at 2. I gave up on it at 4.
anon i think you need to differentiate between public opinion and youtubers
People who hate Twilight Princess while praising the frick out of Ocarina are the funniest posters on this board.
Ocarina was the first 3D open world where you could go anywhere and do anything. I know zoomers won't get it 'cuz they grew up with GTA, but when I was a kid Ocarina's open world was the most amazing thing I'd ever experienced in gaming up until that point. In Twilight Princess you just follow a story that takes you through a linear sequence of dungeons separated by a big empty field to create the illusion of an open world.
Is this bait? It's not really an open world, all the different areas are still boxed off. Yeah Hyrule Field is pretty big but it's also empty. All the criticisms you're lobbing at TP could also easily be lobbed at Ocarina.
Lolno, you're just showing how delusional TP defenders are. You're just wrong about this stuff and won't acknowledge how incredibly restrictive TP is about stuff compared to how actually freeform and organically structured OoT is. They are just not comparable except on a superficial level.
Ocarina isn't even a top 5 Zelda game. It's hideously ugly, choppy, has honestly shit music and was surpassed by Twilight Princess on pretty much every front. Hell, even "non linearity" you're talking about is done much better by the pre-N64 Zelda games. Your love for the game is based on it being the first Zelda game you ever played as a kid and you have convinced yourself it's the GREATEST GAME EVAR for this reason. Don't feel bad, a lot of Ocarina friends are just as delusional as you are!
>actually freeform and organically structured OoT is
OoT is specifically programmed to prevent you from thinking out side the box. In the Death Mountain Crater, if you come back here with the Hover Boots, you can jump off the edge by the ladder, walk across, and grab onto the other side where the rock is... But Link is specifically programmed to fall down once he starts his climbing animation. You HAVE to take the bridge, even though you and the good Pythagoras have proven that Link can physically clear the gap.
There is literally no way to get the hover boots without already having the hammer or completely glitching the game to high hell. That you have to bring up such an irrelevant issue that will never block a single player, and in doing so deliberately ignore all the alternate ways the game does offer (such as, for instance, being able to use either the iron boors or golden scale to get through the Forrest Temple's well waterway without needing to drain it, or use Epona to jump the broken Gerudo bridge) is telling.
>NES Top Gun is bad
AVGN damage
in fact let's extend that to other popular "bad" NES games
TMNT actually won the Nintendo Power GOTY one year, and this was the reader poll. I think it's actually a pretty good game but I see why people prefer the more "crowd pleasing" beat-em-up titles.
I watched some chrongaming video about the NES TMNT and it posited that TMNT is a bit of a demarcation point in generations of NES games. It's a good game but its very weird and unrefined, but the big name games that would come after that are much more polished.
Turtle Mania was huge back then, so as long as the game wasn't complete shit it was going to be super popular + the kids voting in that poll probably followed a guide from the same magazine and knew a bunch of tricks and info on goals that makes the game way more fun to play, otherwise it can be extremely frustrating going in blind (which the AVGN video demonstrates).
That said, I was born in the '80s and I remember the arcade beat 'em ups were the ones everyone got excited over, meanwhile with the NES original people just talked about Donatello being the best and the electric sea weed being a filter that most of my peers didn't get through.
Kids had a lot more patience and tolerance for tough games back then. A lot more than most modern adults honestly. I didn't subscribe to NP and could beat the dam by the time I was 6 years old and could get to the final level by the time I was 7 so I wouldn't consider it too difficult, even without a guide.
A lot of these are because of celebs influencing impressionable viewers who probably never played the games.