tbqh that's the same for all civ games. IF you played your cards right in the early game and mid game it should be impossible for anyone to BTFO you late game so it's just clicking next turn until you win.
If more people kept playing games they fricked up in the early game instead of just ragequitting the late game might be more interesting.
yeah all 4x games seem to have this problem. would love to know if any 4x games have figured out how to make the late game compelling and not just endless micromanagey mop-up operations
yeah, i wish the genius of the mechanics in that game would be carried over to single player 4x
the problem is they're different design goals - your standard 4x is trying to give the player the illusion of a level playing field which you just happen to - ALMOST EVERY TIME - dominate, so basically a power fantasy
while TI4 is trying to keep everyone engaged by making it possible for you to win with a clever play, even right up to the end when someone else is in the "lead"
literally just make the game snowball less, or make the ai in such a way where it can snowball without cheating, but that is never going to fricking happen considering ai in literally every strategy game is baboon tier
>If more people kept playing games they fricked up in the early game instead of just ragequitting the late game might be more interesting.
Except then it's just AI rolling over you in mid game, and there is no late game
civ 4 endgame is kino, pushing the ever-war as hard as possible, riots in all cities as you nuke the world to cinders to secure the win just one turn earlier, or starving millions for the sake of shakespeare and rock & roll, or nationalizing entire continents and even trading with the m*linese in the drive to be the first to discover sustainable fusion
don't just hit enter until the game says "well done", spend your resources to push that win date up another few years. there's a lot to ruin in a civilization.
Absolutely yes the stakes get crazy by the modern era as unit power scales off the wall along with your ability to move units around the map and draft or produce tons in no time with late game economy and factories. Most of the game the satisfaction is from watching the world slowly develop and build up but by the modern era it's seeing how long it can be held onto and kept together before it figuratively or literally blows up and fractures. The OST encapsulates the tension perfectly.
Seriously how? In civ 4 cities have limits on how big they can get before you run into happiness or health problems. The idea is that you use that excess pop growth to convert it into hammers. You are wasting a lot of production if you don't do this.
Biggest issue with civ4 lategame is how much player effort it takes to wage war against against civs of even half your power. God help you if you need to send 100s of units for naval invasions
You have to embark them all on transports and transports only have space for four units each. It's a ton of micromanagement and you have to build the transports in coastal cities.
>not appreciating the ludo of making the player devote strenuous effort to preparing mass naval invasions
also reminds me of doing huge naval invasions in big warcraft 3 custom maps, now that was insane
Civ 4 is actually pretty great for that phase of the game, where you're producing just tons of units to end the game. Setting all your cities to produce the same tank and giving them all the same rally point takes like four clicks. Even a naval invasion isn't that bad. Just stack all your transports, rally all your cities to a tile next to them, then select the land unit stack and move it into the transport stack. I mean it's probably going to be slightly inefficient, but if you've literally got hundreds of units, then you're past a dominating position anyway.
It's honestly one of my favorite parts of the game, getting there tends to be more tedious.
explore and expand are a lot more fun than exterminate. But that's usually because a knife's edge war that can go either way is really rare in these games, and will only happen once in a run.
Old world solves this by points; if any nation has more than double the point as the second most, the game is done.
It also has a 200 turn limit.
People freaking hate it judging by forums. Both can be turned off, but they're homestly a godsend. I think people that play 4x are more interested in the roleplaying aspect than the game.
I think sid meier knew this and at some level was tired with it when he joked that civ asked players "do you think you can build a civilisation that can stand the trst of time?" And the average player responds with "Yes!"
it's absolute shit trash >you want to move that one army? you want to assign that one governor? BETTER INVEST IN PLAYING MANA LOL. oh btw it also transfers to gold because if you dont spend it because we didn't know really what to do with it uhhh
something like a system giving you penalties for overstepping the limits of your bureaucracy should've been in place, not this artificial bullshit that tries to cover the lack of actual game depth with tedium
It's not bad in concept, but it's dogshit in execution. >Governor assignments take orders (and civics) >General assignments take orders (and training) >Using your advisors take orders (and resources) >Taking actions yourself uses orders (and sometimes resources) >Misclick on a worker and need to cancel what he's doing? Wasted orders
It feels like using mana in Paradox. It exists to limit the fun you can have and it always feels like the AI cheats orders.
I find that's an issue with most games tbh, not just civ, not just 4x, not just strategy
Especially a lot of modern games where even when they have great mechanics, it feels like the devs just cant think of what to do with them in the latter half of the game
4x / space games are definitely the worst offender because exploration / building up phase is exciting in every space game, then by the time you're done it just turns into annoying micro management hell
I want to play stuff like realism invictus with 20+ civs on huge maps. But the turn timers are so slow it's ridiculous.
Do I need to get a really good CPU? I have an I5 7600 which is pretty good. CPUs these days just seem to add more cores rather than getting much faster. Should I overclock?
Playing RI and just got a win on Giant map size with 20 civs on Emperor and I'm starting to think it's just not worth it, even though I love huge maps. Going to just lower the map size and jump to Immortal games.
I'm curious anon, what map script do you play with? map settings as well
I'm also playing on emperor, usually small size but I add in two additional AI's to make the war more impactful and necessary
I'm mostly using totestra script but I've found that it kind of behaves weirdly when it comes to starting positions - I either get an absurdly good start with 4+ resources or a barely doable 1 or no resource one.
Yeah, I might switch to planet generator, but for the life of me I couldn't manage to set it up as to generate an earth-like map, I've found it acts weird really weird when it comes to generating deserts, jungles and mountain ranges
As for fractal, I've read somewhere on the forums that it can fail to produce some mod unique features like swamps and savannas but I reckon it's the best when it comes to resource placement
2 years ago
Anonymous
Main thing I like to use on all mapscripts is high sealevels for later discovery, the planet generator has so many options that can frick up your maps if you aren't careful, just gotta fiddle with the settings til you are satisfied.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, I might switch to planet generator, but for the life of me I couldn't manage to set it up as to generate an earth-like map, I've found it acts weird really weird when it comes to generating deserts, jungles and mountain ranges
As for fractal, I've read somewhere on the forums that it can fail to produce some mod unique features like swamps and savannas but I reckon it's the best when it comes to resource placement
Any map generator in civ is awful, that includes RI.
4X games need a constant danger to keep players content up to the late game
Infinite Barbarians would do the trick since they're expendable and have infinite resources
>start civ game >play for hours >were immersed in the situation and strategies to use >come back the next day >lost all interest in the game and start another one
Am I the only one?
definitely
as it is now in vanilla, its use is pretty much ubiquitous in all playthroughs that are above prince difficulty
I like the way RI has implemented it - you get a chance to capture a slave unit which can build improvements and speed up production in cities at the expense of itself, you get slave markets which provide flat bonuses to mines, slave farms, quarries etc and occasionally you can get slave uprisings which can definitely frick you over if they happen in the wrong place at the wrong time, somewhere you have no walls and you had to pull units from to defend in a war
tbqh that's the same for all civ games. IF you played your cards right in the early game and mid game it should be impossible for anyone to BTFO you late game so it's just clicking next turn until you win.
If more people kept playing games they fricked up in the early game instead of just ragequitting the late game might be more interesting.
yeah all 4x games seem to have this problem. would love to know if any 4x games have figured out how to make the late game compelling and not just endless micromanagey mop-up operations
Twilight Imperium doesn't have any mop-ups. It's also a boardgame and not vidya, so comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges.
yeah, i wish the genius of the mechanics in that game would be carried over to single player 4x
the problem is they're different design goals - your standard 4x is trying to give the player the illusion of a level playing field which you just happen to - ALMOST EVERY TIME - dominate, so basically a power fantasy
while TI4 is trying to keep everyone engaged by making it possible for you to win with a clever play, even right up to the end when someone else is in the "lead"
Soren Johnson's Old World™ solves this
Ah yes an unremovable timer.
Can't have an end game if the game ends before it even gets there.
literally just make the game snowball less, or make the ai in such a way where it can snowball without cheating, but that is never going to fricking happen considering ai in literally every strategy game is baboon tier
Let AI take care of shitty cities so you can focus on the 4 cities that matter and the miliatry.
>If more people kept playing games they fricked up in the early game instead of just ragequitting the late game might be more interesting.
Except then it's just AI rolling over you in mid game, and there is no late game
civ 4 endgame is kino, pushing the ever-war as hard as possible, riots in all cities as you nuke the world to cinders to secure the win just one turn earlier, or starving millions for the sake of shakespeare and rock & roll, or nationalizing entire continents and even trading with the m*linese in the drive to be the first to discover sustainable fusion
don't just hit enter until the game says "well done", spend your resources to push that win date up another few years. there's a lot to ruin in a civilization.
Absolutely yes the stakes get crazy by the modern era as unit power scales off the wall along with your ability to move units around the map and draft or produce tons in no time with late game economy and factories. Most of the game the satisfaction is from watching the world slowly develop and build up but by the modern era it's seeing how long it can be held onto and kept together before it figuratively or literally blows up and fractures. The OST encapsulates the tension perfectly.
>playing the late game in a 4X game
>civ 4 early game
>AAAAAAAAAAA IM GONNA WHIIIP IM WHIIIIPPPIIIINNGGGGGG
gets kind of old tbh
I never whipped a single pop.
I'm playing this game since '09.
Same
Just never thought it was worth it tbqh
Seriously how? In civ 4 cities have limits on how big they can get before you run into happiness or health problems. The idea is that you use that excess pop growth to convert it into hammers. You are wasting a lot of production if you don't do this.
they're prince players, that's how
even on Prince that carebear shit can end poorly if you aren't watching yourself
eh, maybe in one out of 10 cases
you can automate all your cities on prince and win if you aren't an absolute moron
i have literally never used city governors
sounds like a fun challenge though
>has never even whipped out a granary in his entire life
based childlike innocence haver
>put max civs on small map
>struggle for any little piece of land
The real HRE little fief experience.
This applies to every single strategy game with campaign map in existence
>no revolts
>no revolutions
That's what happens when the game is nothing but checkers with math.
Biggest issue with civ4 lategame is how much player effort it takes to wage war against against civs of even half your power. God help you if you need to send 100s of units for naval invasions
Haven't played civ 4 in a long time, but I do remember you could stack units. Why is moving lots of naval units a problem?
You have to embark them all on transports and transports only have space for four units each. It's a ton of micromanagement and you have to build the transports in coastal cities.
>not appreciating the ludo of making the player devote strenuous effort to preparing mass naval invasions
also reminds me of doing huge naval invasions in big warcraft 3 custom maps, now that was insane
Civ 4 is actually pretty great for that phase of the game, where you're producing just tons of units to end the game. Setting all your cities to produce the same tank and giving them all the same rally point takes like four clicks. Even a naval invasion isn't that bad. Just stack all your transports, rally all your cities to a tile next to them, then select the land unit stack and move it into the transport stack. I mean it's probably going to be slightly inefficient, but if you've literally got hundreds of units, then you're past a dominating position anyway.
It's honestly one of my favorite parts of the game, getting there tends to be more tedious.
explore and expand are a lot more fun than exterminate. But that's usually because a knife's edge war that can go either way is really rare in these games, and will only happen once in a run.
I dont understand why would anyone prefer or play vanilla when realism Invictus exists
>realism
cancer
filtered
>Sengoku Rance is the only 4x that has challenging and fun late game
Coombros are the masters at design
its not a 4x, its a VN with strategy game elements like Hearts of Iron 4
Do not slander SR with this comparison.
Hitler or Stalin are not even half as creative fantasy characters as Rance.
Old world solves this by points; if any nation has more than double the point as the second most, the game is done.
It also has a 200 turn limit.
People freaking hate it judging by forums. Both can be turned off, but they're homestly a godsend. I think people that play 4x are more interested in the roleplaying aspect than the game.
I think sid meier knew this and at some level was tired with it when he joked that civ asked players "do you think you can build a civilisation that can stand the trst of time?" And the average player responds with "Yes!"
the worst offender for old world is the mobile influenced mechanic of "you can play only as much as the game allows you"
it just isn't fun
The order system? I think it's good that you have to prioritize. It actually creates some value for regional armies.
it's absolute shit trash
>you want to move that one army? you want to assign that one governor? BETTER INVEST IN PLAYING MANA LOL. oh btw it also transfers to gold because if you dont spend it because we didn't know really what to do with it uhhh
something like a system giving you penalties for overstepping the limits of your bureaucracy should've been in place, not this artificial bullshit that tries to cover the lack of actual game depth with tedium
It's not bad in concept, but it's dogshit in execution.
>Governor assignments take orders (and civics)
>General assignments take orders (and training)
>Using your advisors take orders (and resources)
>Taking actions yourself uses orders (and sometimes resources)
>Misclick on a worker and need to cancel what he's doing? Wasted orders
It feels like using mana in Paradox. It exists to limit the fun you can have and it always feels like the AI cheats orders.
I find that's an issue with most games tbh, not just civ, not just 4x, not just strategy
Especially a lot of modern games where even when they have great mechanics, it feels like the devs just cant think of what to do with them in the latter half of the game
4x / space games are definitely the worst offender because exploration / building up phase is exciting in every space game, then by the time you're done it just turns into annoying micro management hell
what's an actually good civ iv mod
bug, planetfall, dune wars, close to home (mp)
>vomits
is Chani supposed to be a leader? Wasn't she a literal who, an exotic fricktoy with no polical power before or after meeting Paul in the books?
I believe she was Liet Kynes' Daughter, never a leader though in any of the books (that matter)
No, she was under Stilgar then became Paul's concubine.
your loss
sword of islam, sengoku, fall from heaven 2
I like late game gameplay. Sometimes it can be boring, sure, but it's cool to emulate modern day warfare (planes, paratroopers and subs) and politics
I want to play stuff like realism invictus with 20+ civs on huge maps. But the turn timers are so slow it's ridiculous.
Do I need to get a really good CPU? I have an I5 7600 which is pretty good. CPUs these days just seem to add more cores rather than getting much faster. Should I overclock?
just learn to play on higher difficulties and then you'll grow an appreciation for smaller, condensed maps because there's less city micro lol
Playing RI and just got a win on Giant map size with 20 civs on Emperor and I'm starting to think it's just not worth it, even though I love huge maps. Going to just lower the map size and jump to Immortal games.
I'm curious anon, what map script do you play with? map settings as well
I'm also playing on emperor, usually small size but I add in two additional AI's to make the war more impactful and necessary
I'm mostly using totestra script but I've found that it kind of behaves weirdly when it comes to starting positions - I either get an absurdly good start with 4+ resources or a barely doable 1 or no resource one.
For that last run I used RI Planet Generator, usually I alternate between that and the good old Fractal.
Yeah, I might switch to planet generator, but for the life of me I couldn't manage to set it up as to generate an earth-like map, I've found it acts weird really weird when it comes to generating deserts, jungles and mountain ranges
As for fractal, I've read somewhere on the forums that it can fail to produce some mod unique features like swamps and savannas but I reckon it's the best when it comes to resource placement
Main thing I like to use on all mapscripts is high sealevels for later discovery, the planet generator has so many options that can frick up your maps if you aren't careful, just gotta fiddle with the settings til you are satisfied.
Any map generator in civ is awful, that includes RI.
4X games need a constant danger to keep players content up to the late game
Infinite Barbarians would do the trick since they're expendable and have infinite resources
big and small, snaky continents
simple as
>start civ game
>play for hours
>were immersed in the situation and strategies to use
>come back the next day
>lost all interest in the game and start another one
Am I the only one?
damn, I often have the same exact problem
thought I was batshit insane because of this
I wonder why does it happen...
get an adderall prescription
Same
Do this with all kinds of games
Don't know why
Same. Add to this guilt that I wasted my limited free time on it instead of even playing a video game that can be actually finished for good.
Is there any way at all to not make the game slow down to a crawl late-game?
>play Civ 5
>it's ok but I wish I was playing Civ 4
>play Civ 4
>it's ok but I wish I was playing CIv 5
Would Civ IV have been better if there was no whip and slavery just gave a large bonus to all extractive improvements in exchange for unhappiness?
definitely
as it is now in vanilla, its use is pretty much ubiquitous in all playthroughs that are above prince difficulty
I like the way RI has implemented it - you get a chance to capture a slave unit which can build improvements and speed up production in cities at the expense of itself, you get slave markets which provide flat bonuses to mines, slave farms, quarries etc and occasionally you can get slave uprisings which can definitely frick you over if they happen in the wrong place at the wrong time, somewhere you have no walls and you had to pull units from to defend in a war