I didn't realize diversity hires was this big of a thing, I thought it was more like that lady's code compared to Carmacks, but this shit, my fricking god.
I did a games design degree and we had Creative Assembly come in to do a guest lecture about diversity in the games industry, they showed a picture similar to this one where the studio went from all white men to a mixture of blue hairs, trannies and tokens. The lecturer, some American woman (it's a British company) rambled about how they were replacing the "dinosaurs" aka white men.
Nothing, you can achieve anything with blueprint coding these days. Why spend hours programming stuff when you can do it in a matter of minutes through blueprint logic? Leave the programmers to actually improve upon the engine or something.
because blueprint code is meant to be a quick way of slapping together a feature for testing, showcasing something. It is slower compared to proper code.
Because one thing I learned workin in IT is people are INCREDIBLY FRICKING STUPID AND LAZY.
There is literally a class of people who just want to work the same boring ass job they did 20 years ago, they don't bother reading documentation, they don't bother keeping up with new trends, they don't want to learn more then just wanna work 6 hours and be on break or lunch for 2 and go home.
They literally wanna do the programmers equivalent of imputing numbers into an excel sheet.
I'm not 100% but it probably varies from programming language. The only block based programming languages I use are for shaders for visualisation and shaders are always compiled into C# or C++
There is nothing wrong with block based programming assuming your entire devteam isn't using it, and that it isn't being used for things that are intensive. Blueprints frick your shit up, see:
A lot of programming has to be done for things that require only a basic understanding of programming to accomplish, something like this would allow someone that normally does the writing to accomplish certain things in a dialogue tree, for example, like a check if you have accomplished a certain objective before allowing a line to be said to an npc. In this case, there isn't going to be a lot of overhead (and any slowdown isn't likely going to be apparent when you are in a conversation with an npc).
If your entire team is using this, there is absolutely going to be problems, because there is going to absolutely be overhead and things that can be optimized outside of blocks. If you are creating a system expecting everyone to be using this so you can meet diversity quota or churn interns you are fricked.
This, it's not meant for the programmers, it's meant for the game designers, testers and others to frick around, they don't have time to understand coding.
I'm pretty sure you could edit the same file in Vi if you wanted to. Every bigger game on this planet is built upon a scripted high level language. Stop posting your moronic tweets here.
As far as I can tell they don't use actual coding, but use a no code tool instead, which is fine for more basic software, but for game development is moronic because it will wreck your optimization. Jesus no wonder their games run like shit.
visual scripting? no, video games are gonna use high-level scripting anyway, it's just a different representation
quota hiring? part of the problem yeah
Plenty many games over the years have used various scripting languages separate from the main code powering everything. Hell, even the PS1 Crash games used a variant of LISP to setup scenes, handle cutscenes and so forth. As such, visual scripting isn't too far removed from the scripting that has already been done over the years.
It's always going to be a matter of what you do with your tools.
My guess is not, but the is a symptom and not the cause. The reason gaming sucks is because most of the 'developers' have surface level of programming and rely on that type of coding. They only the the how, they don't know the why. Compare to what Sakaguchi did in the early Final Fantasy era.
Think of "normal" programming languages as hammers made of steel, and "visual scripting" tools as toy hammers made of soft plastic.
If you ask an experienced carpenter which one he'd rather use, you already know the answer. He uses the right tool for the job because he's skilled and knows how to use it.
But hiring skilled carpenters is expensive, and most of them are wh*te m*les which is problematic because you need to fulfill diversity quotas. So instead you start hiring indian immigrants, blacks, trannies, women, etc. and get them to do the work instead.
There's only one problem: none of these people have any skills. They don't know how to use a hammer and would probably lose a finger if they tried. So instead you give them the toy hammer and just tell them to do their best.
Obviously the end product will be fricking garbage, the shitty tool they used is partially to blame but it's it's just a symptom of the real disease: hiring unskilled workers. The toy hammer would have no reason to exist if companies hired people that knew how to use a real one.
Because they never make jack shit that has to do with being diverse. Teams will poach an ethnicity of every color under the sun and get reigned in by focus groups and their marketing teams to make a game for white people. Most of these people don't know what white people like, so they fricking suck. I just want a bunch of autistic Mexicans to get together and make an conquistador-era Mesoamerican RPG or some shit.
>Ranma vidya >action-RPG where protagonist can flip genders by being splashed with water >male protag better physical combat abilities, female protag better magical combat abilities; can focus on a pure physical or pure magic build or a balanced middle ground >game built around trying to maintain the ‘preferred’ sex of your character to play into the stats you have specced into >some enemies know your weakness and will splash you to force you to fight in your weaker state
If I had to guess, it's the structure of the script being all nested if statements, which is unoptimized and probably why that game ran and looked like complete ass
depends on how graphically/computationally expensive the game would be
though with modern engines like Godot you can write modules in multiple languages, so you can write most shit in C# or the like while writing the more performance-critical stuff in C++
Visual scripting is beneficial when you've laid off the entire workforce who had any idea how the codebase was put together
Lego blocks by morons for morons
All scripting languages are dumb. Using more than one language in a project is complex and dumb. No, "gameplay code" isn't cheap. No, "engine code" isn't doing 90% of the work. That being said, programming with 1000 other monkeys you've never met that all are wroking in the code base is pain so whatever comes out will always be a mess that only works because hardware is more powerful.
First off, game 'DESIGNERS' are often not technical ppl. So they cant program shit, which is why they have these tools like code blocks or those graphs like unreal blueprint. However, if this was a gameplay programmer or engine programmer, then I'd be worried. Gameplay and AI are often scripted in an easier language like Lua, Python, C#, etc.
This image pure outrage b8. It is trying to tie the supposed 'downfall of gameplay programming' with the emergence of women in gaming, but that's not true. Scripting AI has been there since the early 2000s because artists and game designers (most were men btw) were working closer and closer with the engines but couldn't program. So the actual programmers had to find ways to simplify programming which resulted in scripting like the right part of the image.
>codemonkey bros, what's wrong with this?
Nothing per se, shit like this is pretty common in gamedev especially where larger games/teams are concerned when the programmers can't double as programmer and designer both, because having too many people work on the same codebase is an absolute mess for everybody involved. Ever did a group project with Unity once while trying to figure out how to make version control actually work with that? Same shit. Like, developers have been using level editors and scripts since what, the original Doom? This is hardly anything new.
Typically people doing scripting for levels/missions/quests/world design etc. aren't doing any coding (as in, they're literally not doing any engine/AI programming) and so aren't expected to know how to program, which is why any scripting that they do end up doing is usually in drag 'n drop designer languages like UE Blueprints or this. This way you can have your actual programmers continue fixing bugs and polishing the engine/AI while the quest/mission/level/etc. designers are fricking about in an isolated domain where they can't accidentally the codebase. Typically if designers want a new feature in the level editor, they need to beg the programmers to see if they have any spare time to look at implementing it.
OP is just posting outragebait to claim that programmers in modern gamedev studios are all using dumbed down shit like Scratch, while ignoring that this division between scripting and coding has existed since time immemorial. Go try making a Doom level in one of the many available level editors for it and tell me how much coding you're actually doing.
then what's the problem?
even if it's not super optimised, couldn't you have a 'code editor' that goes through and nips and tucks where there could be speed ups?
>even if it's not super optimised, couldn't you have a 'code editor' that goes through and nips and tucks where there could be speed ups?
this is literally what the compiler does already
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler#One-pass_versus_multi-pass_compilers
Nothing is wrong, gamedev was always shit option for developers, crunches, lowest salary in the industry, you always had to work with crazy incompetent people who consider themselves artists or world best managers etc. But since the tech industry was way smaller, you had to work wherever you can and nowadays the tech industry is large so the majority of good developers prefer to avoid the gamedev
There is nothing wrong with drag and drop visual programming. It is good for learning and for simple coding. That's how I learnt how to code and how to transfer it to another language.
I'm an "idea guy" that wants to mess around in Unity (although maybe not anymore after the recent news) or UE4. Is this something that could "open the door" for me so to speak?
I have some shit I wanna try since I've not seen other games do it but I'm completely out of my depth whenever I see anything more complex in terms of coding that isn't a logic tree/list like OP posted. Can I get a functional "game" out of this shit if all I want to do is use it as an creative outlet?
Yes, I've tried to learn some coding, but I almost pass out whenever I start out thanks of boredom/lack of focus. The only way I noticed I can work with this shit is when I'm doing something more tactile/visual, like animating in Blender or just copy pasting code from google into some random game maker to see what I get out of it
I know how to animate (and I can make a doughnut in blender) but that is beside the point, I don't want to work in the industry, I just want to be an amature gamedev that does this shit for the fun of it.
Especially since games have become more and more boring for me over the years but I have literal years worth of ideas that I've scribbled on paper/excel/word that I want to try somewhere were people can't judge me for how "shit" they are.
It's like how some people on websites like Newgrounds only animated and made flashgames for shits'n'giggles, I wanna do the same but in a game engine.
If you ask me, the very reason they made that kind of shit in the first place is so they could mass produce their shit games. So it's actually pretty successful.
Not much. The codemonkeys are the ones who implemented the blueprinting system. The actual complexity is in how the building blocks work themselves not in how some low iq homosexuals drag and drops them together to create some inefficient monstrosity. It's good because you save money by not having to employ professionals, it's bad because it limits your possibilities and those people do not really have an idea of what they are doing.
I torrented this game a few weeks ago. I liked wd 1 and 2. I thought I'd at least get a few dozen hours out off this, but holy shit was it boring. The entire gimmick of recruiting people is borderline pointless and is reduced to basically disguises as different jobs.
As long as there are guys working there that aren't in the photo, it's fine. Logically they've all got to like games to some degree and statistically at least one or two is probably really cool and doesn't take shit seriously. Easy A to find a chill coder gamer waifu.
>"Computers are SOOOOO fast nowadays who cares..." >"What the frick why does this game barely work and is running at 20fps?"
Just get a better computer instead of asking for more competent dev teams for your games LMAO
I don't understand that but is it like Indian Diaper code or something?
it's Scratch-style graphical scripting
which could be a decent way to put worthless idea guys (or girls I guess) to work in a development studio tbf
I didn't realize diversity hires was this big of a thing, I thought it was more like that lady's code compared to Carmacks, but this shit, my fricking god.
I did a games design degree and we had Creative Assembly come in to do a guest lecture about diversity in the games industry, they showed a picture similar to this one where the studio went from all white men to a mixture of blue hairs, trannies and tokens. The lecturer, some American woman (it's a British company) rambled about how they were replacing the "dinosaurs" aka white men.
This was to an audience of 75% white men.
that explains how they went from Alien Isolation to their latest.. thing
Wait that's how the coding was done? I thought it was some diagram or something.
Nothing, you can achieve anything with blueprint coding these days. Why spend hours programming stuff when you can do it in a matter of minutes through blueprint logic? Leave the programmers to actually improve upon the engine or something.
because blueprint code is meant to be a quick way of slapping together a feature for testing, showcasing something. It is slower compared to proper code.
Pretty sure it's compiled when they build the project file into a written programming language.
Is it?
Do we have proof?
Because one thing I learned workin in IT is people are INCREDIBLY FRICKING STUPID AND LAZY.
There is literally a class of people who just want to work the same boring ass job they did 20 years ago, they don't bother reading documentation, they don't bother keeping up with new trends, they don't want to learn more then just wanna work 6 hours and be on break or lunch for 2 and go home.
They literally wanna do the programmers equivalent of imputing numbers into an excel sheet.
I'm not 100% but it probably varies from programming language. The only block based programming languages I use are for shaders for visualisation and shaders are always compiled into C# or C++
You guys said that too about javascript and look at where we are now.
Blueprints typically decrease performance compared to regular programming.
BP was 300x the ms of the code version.
Theirs also the lack of readability and control that comes with blueprints
300x seems like a weird outlier
There is nothing wrong with block based programming assuming your entire devteam isn't using it, and that it isn't being used for things that are intensive. Blueprints frick your shit up, see:
A lot of programming has to be done for things that require only a basic understanding of programming to accomplish, something like this would allow someone that normally does the writing to accomplish certain things in a dialogue tree, for example, like a check if you have accomplished a certain objective before allowing a line to be said to an npc. In this case, there isn't going to be a lot of overhead (and any slowdown isn't likely going to be apparent when you are in a conversation with an npc).
If your entire team is using this, there is absolutely going to be problems, because there is going to absolutely be overhead and things that can be optimized outside of blocks. If you are creating a system expecting everyone to be using this so you can meet diversity quota or churn interns you are fricked.
>Why spend hours programming stuff when you can do it in a matter of minutes through blueprint logic?
So it doesn't run like dogshit
Oh wow, Watchdogs ran like dogshit what a coincidence
Lot of modern games run like shit. They aim to make it okey for console. And that's it.
And Cyberpunk had to be pulled off because it ran so bad on PS4
HOLY SHIT
meant for this
I'm shocked it's this bad
This, it's not meant for the programmers, it's meant for the game designers, testers and others to frick around, they don't have time to understand coding.
I use Blueprints only if absolutely necessary, coding gives you control of the engine, Blueprints are limited.
There's nothing wrong with block based programming. Each to their own. I'll stick to coding because it's faster
I'm pretty sure you could edit the same file in Vi if you wanted to. Every bigger game on this planet is built upon a scripted high level language. Stop posting your moronic tweets here.
What's the engine on the right?
Any good games made in Scratch?
there is a 'as close to identical as possible' version of Getting Over It made entirely in scratch, look it up on google and you can play the game
As far as I can tell they don't use actual coding, but use a no code tool instead, which is fine for more basic software, but for game development is moronic because it will wreck your optimization. Jesus no wonder their games run like shit.
Visual scripting is superior for game AI
don't (you) me
This is absolutely not why games have gotten worse. Right?
visual scripting? no, video games are gonna use high-level scripting anyway, it's just a different representation
quota hiring? part of the problem yeah
Plenty many games over the years have used various scripting languages separate from the main code powering everything. Hell, even the PS1 Crash games used a variant of LISP to setup scenes, handle cutscenes and so forth. As such, visual scripting isn't too far removed from the scripting that has already been done over the years.
It's always going to be a matter of what you do with your tools.
My guess is not, but the is a symptom and not the cause. The reason gaming sucks is because most of the 'developers' have surface level of programming and rely on that type of coding. They only the the how, they don't know the why. Compare to what Sakaguchi did in the early Final Fantasy era.
Think of "normal" programming languages as hammers made of steel, and "visual scripting" tools as toy hammers made of soft plastic.
If you ask an experienced carpenter which one he'd rather use, you already know the answer. He uses the right tool for the job because he's skilled and knows how to use it.
But hiring skilled carpenters is expensive, and most of them are wh*te m*les which is problematic because you need to fulfill diversity quotas. So instead you start hiring indian immigrants, blacks, trannies, women, etc. and get them to do the work instead.
There's only one problem: none of these people have any skills. They don't know how to use a hammer and would probably lose a finger if they tried. So instead you give them the toy hammer and just tell them to do their best.
Obviously the end product will be fricking garbage, the shitty tool they used is partially to blame but it's it's just a symptom of the real disease: hiring unskilled workers. The toy hammer would have no reason to exist if companies hired people that knew how to use a real one.
>lowering the bar of competency to kindergarten level
>not going to affect game quality
All those big companies keep getting more diverse, but their games keep getting worse.
Because they never make jack shit that has to do with being diverse. Teams will poach an ethnicity of every color under the sun and get reigned in by focus groups and their marketing teams to make a game for white people. Most of these people don't know what white people like, so they fricking suck. I just want a bunch of autistic Mexicans to get together and make an conquistador-era Mesoamerican RPG or some shit.
Most Mexicans would try and make a dragon ball, Ranma or saint seya ripoff and you don't dare pretend they wouldnt.
>Ranma vidya
>action-RPG where protagonist can flip genders by being splashed with water
>male protag better physical combat abilities, female protag better magical combat abilities; can focus on a pure physical or pure magic build or a balanced middle ground
>game built around trying to maintain the ‘preferred’ sex of your character to play into the stats you have specced into
>some enemies know your weakness and will splash you to force you to fight in your weaker state
I’d play it
If I had to guess, it's the structure of the script being all nested if statements, which is unoptimized and probably why that game ran and looked like complete ass
>Scripting
Bro I'm tired of attaching nodes to nodes and other nodes
>nooooooo you have to code in ASM on Emacs if you want to do anything
You will never code professionally
You sound like the kind of Black person who hasn't even written his own compiler.
I haven't and never will. Creating fast > running fast
Black person mindset
so you're okay with shit like C#, Java, Python, etc?
depends on how graphically/computationally expensive the game would be
though with modern engines like Godot you can write modules in multiple languages, so you can write most shit in C# or the like while writing the more performance-critical stuff in C++
Just use x86 assembly language. Not first game writen whit it
Scripting shit like this is usually for level and quest designers who don't have as technical a background.
Visual scripting is beneficial when you've laid off the entire workforce who had any idea how the codebase was put together
Lego blocks by morons for morons
All scripting languages are dumb. Using more than one language in a project is complex and dumb. No, "gameplay code" isn't cheap. No, "engine code" isn't doing 90% of the work. That being said, programming with 1000 other monkeys you've never met that all are wroking in the code base is pain so whatever comes out will always be a mess that only works because hardware is more powerful.
Just code in binary
First off, game 'DESIGNERS' are often not technical ppl. So they cant program shit, which is why they have these tools like code blocks or those graphs like unreal blueprint. However, if this was a gameplay programmer or engine programmer, then I'd be worried. Gameplay and AI are often scripted in an easier language like Lua, Python, C#, etc.
This image pure outrage b8. It is trying to tie the supposed 'downfall of gameplay programming' with the emergence of women in gaming, but that's not true. Scripting AI has been there since the early 2000s because artists and game designers (most were men btw) were working closer and closer with the engines but couldn't program. So the actual programmers had to find ways to simplify programming which resulted in scripting like the right part of the image.
t. programmer/profesional game dev
>codemonkey bros, what's wrong with this?
Nothing per se, shit like this is pretty common in gamedev especially where larger games/teams are concerned when the programmers can't double as programmer and designer both, because having too many people work on the same codebase is an absolute mess for everybody involved. Ever did a group project with Unity once while trying to figure out how to make version control actually work with that? Same shit. Like, developers have been using level editors and scripts since what, the original Doom? This is hardly anything new.
Typically people doing scripting for levels/missions/quests/world design etc. aren't doing any coding (as in, they're literally not doing any engine/AI programming) and so aren't expected to know how to program, which is why any scripting that they do end up doing is usually in drag 'n drop designer languages like UE Blueprints or this. This way you can have your actual programmers continue fixing bugs and polishing the engine/AI while the quest/mission/level/etc. designers are fricking about in an isolated domain where they can't accidentally the codebase. Typically if designers want a new feature in the level editor, they need to beg the programmers to see if they have any spare time to look at implementing it.
OP is just posting outragebait to claim that programmers in modern gamedev studios are all using dumbed down shit like Scratch, while ignoring that this division between scripting and coding has existed since time immemorial. Go try making a Doom level in one of the many available level editors for it and tell me how much coding you're actually doing.
Insightful post
are blueprints just code underneath? it's just a more visual way of doing things.
>are blueprints just code underneath?
literally yes
then what's the problem?
even if it's not super optimised, couldn't you have a 'code editor' that goes through and nips and tucks where there could be speed ups?
>even if it's not super optimised, couldn't you have a 'code editor' that goes through and nips and tucks where there could be speed ups?
this is literally what the compiler does already
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler#One-pass_versus_multi-pass_compilers
Nothing is wrong, gamedev was always shit option for developers, crunches, lowest salary in the industry, you always had to work with crazy incompetent people who consider themselves artists or world best managers etc. But since the tech industry was way smaller, you had to work wherever you can and nowadays the tech industry is large so the majority of good developers prefer to avoid the gamedev
Any other programmers find blueprints or node-based scripting unreadable? It's so ugly and inefficient to me.
Depends on circumstances. I love them for visual stuff like procedural generation or shaders, hate them for ordinary scripting
This looks fricking incomprehensible. Are they sure it's more convenient in any metric than written code?
Right off the bat, I see a nested if statement that is 4 deep
Also wtf is this? Some drag and drop shit?
>watch dogs legion
Didn't that game run like complete dogshit?
yep
What's the best free IDE to write C++ code on Windows?
Visual Studio 2022
There is nothing wrong with drag and drop visual programming. It is good for learning and for simple coding. That's how I learnt how to code and how to transfer it to another language.
I'm an "idea guy" that wants to mess around in Unity (although maybe not anymore after the recent news) or UE4. Is this something that could "open the door" for me so to speak?
I have some shit I wanna try since I've not seen other games do it but I'm completely out of my depth whenever I see anything more complex in terms of coding that isn't a logic tree/list like OP posted. Can I get a functional "game" out of this shit if all I want to do is use it as an creative outlet?
Yes, I've tried to learn some coding, but I almost pass out whenever I start out thanks of boredom/lack of focus. The only way I noticed I can work with this shit is when I'm doing something more tactile/visual, like animating in Blender or just copy pasting code from google into some random game maker to see what I get out of it
Everyone in the games industry is an idea guy. If you want to stand out, you need to learn the necessary skills
I know how to animate (and I can make a doughnut in blender) but that is beside the point, I don't want to work in the industry, I just want to be an amature gamedev that does this shit for the fun of it.
Especially since games have become more and more boring for me over the years but I have literal years worth of ideas that I've scribbled on paper/excel/word that I want to try somewhere were people can't judge me for how "shit" they are.
It's like how some people on websites like Newgrounds only animated and made flashgames for shits'n'giggles, I wanna do the same but in a game engine.
ideaguys never make it
if you want your vision to be done you need to be the guy doing it yourself
>equality
>top picture : males, females, blacks, whites, asians, and other ethnicities.
>bottom picture : all fat white women
Doesn't seem equal.
I don't see the issue here? Scripting is and was a common practice even in 2000s streamlining it via visual input seems like the next logical step.
If you ask me, the very reason they made that kind of shit in the first place is so they could mass produce their shit games. So it's actually pretty successful.
>Scratch
Not much. The codemonkeys are the ones who implemented the blueprinting system. The actual complexity is in how the building blocks work themselves not in how some low iq homosexuals drag and drops them together to create some inefficient monstrosity. It's good because you save money by not having to employ professionals, it's bad because it limits your possibilities and those people do not really have an idea of what they are doing.
I torrented this game a few weeks ago. I liked wd 1 and 2. I thought I'd at least get a few dozen hours out off this, but holy shit was it boring. The entire gimmick of recruiting people is borderline pointless and is reduced to basically disguises as different jobs.
uncomfortable facts for chudcoders:
if it works, it's good code
if it's neatly written, accessible and annotated, it's a good thing
that female programmer and your company got the job because she has people skills, not because of her gender identity
if other people can do it with blueprint coding, you're not a better coder than they are for doing it the long way
t. Wonders why there has never been a successful matriarchal society, and blames colonialism for why Africans never invented the wheel
>says shit like "chud" and reddit spaces
>absolutely most moronic post of the day
Like clockwork.
so what engine best supports blueprints? id like to give a game a shot
i don't know what i'm looking, help this poor monke?
As long as there are guys working there that aren't in the photo, it's fine. Logically they've all got to like games to some degree and statistically at least one or two is probably really cool and doesn't take shit seriously. Easy A to find a chill coder gamer waifu.
it's for morons. that's basically like labelled lego pieces.
Apologize
He had to google how to wipe a hard drive
Well not everyone has /sqt/ bookmarked.
securely wiping a hard drive so the data can't be retrieved afterwards is actually a bit harder than right clicking the drive and selecting reformat
unironically it's probably easier to just rip it out of the computer and blowtorch it
>"Computers are SOOOOO fast nowadays who cares..."
>"What the frick why does this game barely work and is running at 20fps?"
Just get a better computer instead of asking for more competent dev teams for your games LMAO
No wonder why most games ship broken these days, go girls!
I don't see the problem with that sort of thing for high level scripting.
t. c++ systems engineer
>set baseValue = baseValue / 1
nice catch
I write python for a living and most days I'm bewildered that I'm payed 100k+ to write for loops and if statements.