CRT bros....you lied to me...
I got the MiSTRE VGA to RGB SCART cable from arcade express, but the image is fricked.
I've used the costume resolution utility, but nothing seems to work.
any ideas on how to fix it??
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my GPU is GTX 1070 and I'm using a generic pal crt TV.
also I'm using DVI to VGA to connect the cables
This is likely your problem here. You can probably get your GTX 1070 to output NTSC but it will probably require some hackery. Try livebooting Grooveymame and doing the tests and seeing if any display properly. There's so much variation in CRT sets, and video hardware and GPU hardware and drivers you're going to have to try and brute force a solution which is what groovymame will help you with.
You need a DP to VGA adapter and a proper mode set up in CRU.
This is very wrong. Lucky you didn't blow up your CRT.
You need 240p/288p or 480i/576i at 60Hz. Also remove ALL the 31kHz modes. Make sure you pay attention to sync polarity and the timings, this isn't villy-nilly shit and you shouldn't just randomly try without research, you can destroy your hardware.
Nope, all you need is a DP to VGA adapter and a 15kHz modeline, plus any cable that works for you, like VGA to RGB SCART or BNC.
I've yet to see someone who didn't manage to make it work who didn't frick it up themselves like OP here.
There's no reason to use CRT Emudriver anymore.
There's like two thread on /vr/ right now, CRT thread and another one talking about filters that showcase this method working perfectly fine for all the people who claim this isn't possible.
>You need a DP to VGA adapter and a proper mode set up in CRU.
P.S. I'm not saying HDMI or native VGA doesn't work, I've seen HDMI work and iGPUs with VGA, but only online and not with my own eyes, so I won't claim it does.
I'm interested in trying, what adapter should I get? Also got any proof?
>what adapter should I get?
The DeLOCK 62967 gets recommended for VGA and it also works fine for 15kHz output. The adapter does most the work so graphics card is less relevant as long as your drivers let you output a mode like that, from my experience most newer Nvidia cards have no problem, have tested a few myself, currently running a 2070S.
>Also got any proof?
This was on a 15kHz CRT.
Do make sure you get right modelines and don't do what OP did.
To support most home consoles and arcades, 224p, 240p at 59Hz, 59.6Hz and 60Hz will cover most bases and 288p 50Hz. Use a super resolution for aspect ratio correction, RA will switch to the closest mode itself with CRT SwitchRes and even if it's a mode that you don't have, you'll just have slight black bars or over/underscan with still 1:1 output and perfect aspect ratio.
Why can't I just use DVI to VGA or HDMI to VGA?
why does it have to be DP?
and how do I know which resolution works for me?
Sorry I don't know jack shit about refresh rates and resolutions
Also how do I remove the 31khz modes?
>Why can't I just use DVI to VGA or HDMI to VGA?
You'll just have to test, like I said in
>why does it have to be DP?
DP has just less limitations, plus the adapter does the work, so it's a safer bet to know it works.
>and how do I know which resolution works for me?
For starters, try deleting EVERYTHING in CRU for the adapter that goes to your CRT TV (NOT your main display) and copy this one exactly:
Restart and try again. Make sure your TV is turned off while you reboot your PC or it send 31kHz modes to it.
>Sorry I don't know jack shit about refresh rates and resolutions
Just glad you didn't break anything.
Like take the checkbox away from
1024x768 so Windows can't accidentally select a 31kHz+ mode.
Delete all the other modes you've rated too, from the Extension block also.
Try putting in the mode I mentioned about:
under "Detailed resolutions" on the very top. Also click edit on the top/right and make sure under Range limits it's set to V rate 50 - 60 Hz and H rate to 15 - 15 kHz with max pixel clock 60 MHz, check the box that says Include if slot available and press OK.
If you want to add more modes, add them under the extension block, like for 224p and 288p, but first start with 240p and make sure that works, don't do too much at once, otherwise you won't know where the problem is if you have one, go step by step. Good luck.
so I did exactly what you said and it actually worked.
but the image is too stretched, any idea on how to fix it?
Enable CRT SwitchRes in RetroArch, with 2560 as the Super Resolution, it will automatically fix it.
Happy you got it to work.
I did that and everything looks amazing, thank you anon.
But the thing is I want to play native pc games too, is there a way to fix the aspect ratio through cru?
>I did that and everything looks amazing, thank you anon.
You're welcome, glad it works.
I made you a file with some common modelines you can try to have better support with different emulators and consoles. As long as CRT SwitchRes is turned on in RetroArch, it will automatically switch.
https://pastebin.com/c11uzw90
Make sure you have selected the adapter in CRU and click on Import and inport that file. You might have to do the Edit part in
again, like:
>Also click edit on the top/right and make sure under Range limits it's set to V rate 50 - 60 Hz and H rate to 15 - 15 kHz with max pixel clock 60 MHz, check the box that says Include if slot available and press OK.
Don't forget to check that it's correct, since otherwise Windows might automatically make more modes which could be wrong and cause troubles.
>But the thing is I want to play native pc games too, is there a way to fix the aspect ratio through cru?
You can, I already made the file above, but add it yourself, first load the file from above and then also add this mode from pic related under "Extension block" in CRU, just copy it again 1:1 like it's on the picture and press OK. Then you can select it in Windows as 320x240.
You can just press Add... and add a new CEA-861 extension block to add the 320x240 resolution from pic related there, if the first block is already full of different resolutions / modes.
Super resolutions like 2560x240 are better for emulation but they stretch everything else, but 320x240 should work with any game/program that's capable of running as such a low resolution.
I don't think how good native PC games will look with that though, don't get your hopes up.
CRT bros thank you.
sorry if I ever doubted you and god bless you Anon.
Have a wonderful summer everyone
You're welcome OP. You too, enjoy that CRT.
Can you turn this into a guide for the CRT general please?
I'm not that great at making actual guides, if someone wants to do it with my help, just post in the /CRT/ general about it and if I see it, I'll give you any input you want.
I also only use DP to VGA myself right now and can't test other methods, but I can help dig out some previous testing by other anons related to HDMI to VGA and HDMI to component.
which game is that?
It's a picture at 240p, anon, not a game
I also see the TV geometry is off to the left a little, if you can't adjust it in the settings of the TV, you might want to play around a little with the timings in CRU, like in pic related, the front and back porch.
Like instead of 22 and 29, make it 24 and 25, that would move the whole picture a little to the right (or if you're using the 2560x240 resolutions, edit those from 160 and 232 to 180 and 212 for example). Don't forget to press OK twice afterwards and restart PC to test, make sure TV is off while restarting.
Good luck.
Holy shit it actually works?
Can someone just make it into a pastebin already for the /CRT/ general so we don't have these threads weekly?
>There's no reason to use CRT Emudriver anymore.
Groovymame... If you want to play arcade games properly you need crt emudriver.
I thought this was interesting, so I was reading the product description, it has a bunch of requirements, so you should have read them:
100% Made in Spain by Arcade Express
ArcadeVga to Scart cable (Euroconnector) to broadcast in RGB Pixel Perfect
USB with voltage amplifier 5V + 12V
Supports PC / Raspberry Pi / Mister FPGA
Auto power on and change channel to AV / RGB for CRT TV
Requires graphics card that outputs at 15khz
120cm long cable
You should take particular close attention to the thing that says:
>Requires graphics card that outputs at 15khz
I imagine most GPUs don't, since is the frequency that old TVs require and not exactly a modern requirement. I don't even have a way to know if mine does, so I'm not going to risk buying it, even though this does seems like a good product.
graphics card that outputs at 15khz
This is easy to get around, you just have to edit graphics.ini in C:/Windows/ and change the line hz=60 to hz=15. I don't recommend doing it though since it makes your fps per second really choppy, but if you're playing on an old CTR TV it probably won't be able to input many frames anyway.
>Killing a person ain't no big deal. Just put the gun to their head... pow
bro please. you sound like a fricking moron.
Nobody has been able to find the original source of thos picture and provide a higher resolution scan?
well the source is just that, it's a poster
you can reverse image search it, lot's of people have and it's up on auction sites and whatnot
you either gonna have to buy it or beg people to do a proper scan
Okie dokie, damn, thats a nice scan
Anybody has the actual japanese title of this item for search on yahho auctions?
Don't know what's a good search title, but the ad campaign is "You can meet a girl who's just your type on the Duo"
Well its because i used to collect lots of japanese magazines, mostly weeb shit.
I love when people buy a CRT because of it becoming a fad and shit breaks and they don't know how to fix it. I should make a collection of these posts
Just get a good LCD monitor. Or OLED if you're rich
stfu zoomzoom, I got it for free
Pretty much this zoomers and millennial casuals are jerking off to things they never really understood, never really had. Crash course in how things work, they never touched a computer until long after the concept of PnP existed. Yeah, those CRTs are going to the dust bin. All I can say is welp, there goes your moronic hobby, to the very few people that did their due diligence to understand how things work. Anyway, the people doing the work on shaders is the way to go. TV/monitors are just gonna get better and having documents of how things worked, or at least the resultant, on old devices will provided better results than a haggard CRT that well past it designed lifecycle.
Millennials had CRTs in the home for the majority of their childhood and teenage years, you know that, right?
>crt
>fad
What the frick are you talking about? Playing retro on anything but a crt will gimp your play.
CRTs have boomed in popularity due to e-celebs, that's what I'm talking about.
>Playing retro on anything but a crt will gimp your play
If you're using a good monitor then the lag is negligible 99% of the time. Do you think esports are all using CRTs still? Even Melee is having to increasingly tolerate LCDs.
>esports
I don't follow that shit but I'm willing to bet KOF and Super Turbo meet ups are still played on arcade cabinets.
Not always. My point isn't that CRTs are never, ever used, but rather that LCDs have gotten good enough to where latency isn't an issue if you have a proper set up.
I've never said that CRTs don't have their (slight) advantages, I'm simply making fun of the idiots like OP, who go out and get a CRT without knowing what they're getting into because they've gone viral. But hit dogs holler, eh?
There's nothing wrong with what OP is doing, it is the best way to emulate, but doing it without any research is dumb and can just be a waste of time and money.
You do know that this is done for convenience right?
try to take 50 CRT's vs 50 flat panels
Also try to be aware that CRT's are used for standard resolutions, not HD content
My point is that if even competitive gamers who play for a living don't notice 4ms of lag, then /vr/ shitposters won't either.
There is more to CRTs than latency, the average panel is way more than 4ms also, try 12ms. Specially at 60Hz, it going to be way worse in latency than a panels best case scenario running at its max refresh rate.
>use average panel, get mediocre results
Wow. It's a good reason I've qualified my statements with "good monitor" the whole time. What exactly are you trying to argue here? Does the reality that even people who play competitive /vr/ for a living use LCDs bother you that much?
We're talking about average /vr/ users, those won't have high end panels. You said it yourself
>then /vr/ shitposters won't either.
Not that it matters since majority of latency, both processing and response, benefit for good panels comes from when they run 144Hz or higher, at 60Hz it's still pretty bad. Pixel response changes with refresh rate (that makes motion worse, specially at lower refresh rates, you'd preferably want BFI then).
You seem to be the one getting bothered by the fact that there's no reason not to use a CRT, even when a panel is "good enough" in most cases, even with high latency. Run-ahead alone usually shaved off two or three times more latency than the average panel.
Bro, you don't get it
Buy a high end LCD, don't use a CRT you can find for free
That's a good reason too of course, if you just want to play /vr/, there's no reason to buy a high end panel, CRTs are usually found for much less or even free. Cables and adapters needed cost barely 40€.
>We're talking about average /vr/ users, those won't have high end panels. You said it yourself
Cute. You know I meant that they won't notice input lag, if even competitive players don't.
>at 60Hz it's still pretty bad.
Even at 60hz you only get 8-10ms of input lag, which is still neglible. I do agree that runahead matters a lot but RetroArch is a whole different ballpark, eg with that you can actually take advantage of the higher refresh rates. This was about some dweeb trying to "well akshually" me about KOF98.
>You seem to be the one getting bothered by the fact that there's no reason not to use a CRT,
You're saying this in a thread made because OP couldn't figure out how to set up his CRT for days. I think it shows the downsides of CRTs pretty well.
If you're lucky enough to get a good CRT for free, then knock yourself out. Unfortunately, e-celebs have made that harder to do. I'm kinda glad that the Melee scene shifted to online before all this broke out.
What are you talking about, shitloads of local listings for pickup only or a couple euros for the better ones like Trinitrons, all with SCART inputs
>euros
That explains it, I doubt there's a huge retro gaming scene wherever you live. In OK, we have gaming cons and Melee tournaments spreading the word around so sellers have become savvy enough to charge CRTs at high prices. You can find some at dirt cheap prices but they're usually pretty crappy.
Retroarch has G-Sync/FreeSync support.
>Germany
>doesn't have retro gaming shit constantly at some part of the country
lol nice try
>at some part of the country
I live in Tulsa, right where all this shit happens. But I'll take the lumps for this one, since there are many other factors that influence CRT availability.
G-sync lets you run 60fps content with the lower latency of higher refresh rates. That's one of its biggest appeals.
>>at some part of the country
exactly, there's AWALYS something going on at some part of the country, any day you could go somewhere where shit goes down
>G-sync lets you run 60fps content with the lower latency of higher refresh rates. That's one of its biggest appeals.
The latency benefit comes from not having to use V-Sync.
It's entirely driver side, it has nothing to do with the panels own refresh rate and the pixel response, where the latency and response rate problems of low refresh rates content on high refresh rate panel appear.
You're talking about something different, you're talking about benefits of VRR in general. I'm talking about a good 144Hz panel having bad response and latency when running at 60Hz, G-Sync/FreeSync/VRR or not.
I already mentioned the workaround for non-VRR displays about the text in your image in the previous post.
Meanwhile your benchmark is about G-Sync and frame limiting, you have to cap at 58 FPS for example on a 60Hz G-Sync panel to get the benefit of G-Sync, it would be identical with V-Sync disabled on a non-G-Sync display at 60Hz, but that's not even /vr/ and about modern games, RetroArch has it's own methods to use hybrid V-Sync to get the same latency benefits without tearing on non-VRR displays, as I mentioned in the previous post already. The only real benefit of G-Sync/FreeSync/VRR for /vr/ is that you don't have to create custom modelines and refresh rates to every consoles you want to play, that's it.
>Retroarch has G-Sync/FreeSync support.
...and? That has nothing to do with high refresh rate or refresh rate related panel latency. Even with G-Sync/FreeSync/VRR you're still running 60Hz content at 60Hz, it doesn't fix the panels problem with latency when running at lower refresh rates.
It can mitigate some input latency and frame pacing issues if you're too lazy to set up refresh rates for the consoles you play and configure frame delay and interval / swap chain in RetroArch, which will give identical results. Nothing to do with high refresh rate though.
Germany alone has almost 1/3rd of the population of the whole of USA, pretty ignorant to think such things
https://www.germanysmash.de/
>I do agree that runahead matters a lot but RetroArch is a whole different ballpark, eg with that you can actually take advantage of the higher refresh rates.
You're still running at 60Hz even when using Run-Ahead. What do you mean?
or 59hz, 50hz, etc
Point being you don't take advantage of higher refresh rates using that
>don't notice 4ms of lag
who says they don't
The money they get for sponsorships is more important to them
That anon had no idea about the shit he was talking about, specially when he started talking about G-Sync it became obvious
>latency
>nostalgia
>motion clarity
>better picture than filters
plenty of reasons to prefer crt
They aren't getting them for retro games but for new ones
>a 1920x1440 100hz Viewsonic PF 795 CRT monitor
>"Active signal resolution: 1280x1024"
b- but muh interlacing!!
There was no interlacing.
>but for new ones
That has nothing to do with /vr/ though
Wrong board
You're feeding it a resolution that's too high for the display to handle. You need to send it something with a 15KHz horizontal refresh rate, either 240p or 480i (note the i in 480i) for an NTSC display, or 288p or 576i for a PAL display. If your GPU can't go that low consider getting an older GPU with VGA output and putting that in your computer as a secondary GPU, newer versions of Windows will let you set one GPU as display-only and perform all the rendering on the other, more powerful GPU.
I have an old laptop with VGA output, but the results are the same
VGA is a 31khz signal, you need a 15khz one
It’s not as easy as just plugging it in to a computer, you have to be able to push a resolution made for 15khz displays
Well I tried using CRU to get 15khz video but this is what I got
This usually happens when a higher resolution image is used
I’m guessing it’s still in progressive scan
I tried both progressive and interlaced, high and low resolution
I don’t think it’s pushing the correct resolution
Try doing DP to VGA and VGA to RGB
I have a feeling your DVI cable is fricking it up
I don't think so, I have and old PC with a built in VGA port but the results are the same
can you share your mgs wallpaper?
If I did will you help me?
Crt drones on suicide watch
I told you to get an ATI card with VGA and use CRT Emudriver.
>I told you to get an ATI card with VGA and use CRT Emudriver.
sorry but I won't believe any more bullshit from this board anymore
I am old and used to fix TVs, VCRs and CRT projectors for side money. I haunt the CRT threads, to laugh at the shit posts, I am 90% sure half of the pro CRT things said here are said as shitposts. The other 10% are people that are that stupid.
It's the gold-standard and most likely to work.
but it didn't.
I did everything said in that pic.
excpet the T-joiner, I don't know wtf is that
That's the problem with modern cards, if you look for an old ATI card with VGA it will work.
See here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=160776.0
I don't want to spend more money
I will try that then
you except me to buy an arcade machine for 3000$, that can only play one game?
Those old cards are only 25-35 bucks, they're mostly for 2D, if you want 3D out of them forget about them.
I mainly want Saturn, Mame and N64 games
I have an old pc from 2013 and a notebook, both have vga output and both have the issue as my modern pc
These are the type of cards that work, you might try and find more modern ones but you need to find a list online.
>ATI
what year is it
btw this is what I get when I try to set my TV to 115hz
Seems like the sync polarity is messed up. Check that the polarity matches this: (but not sure if it's different for PAL tvs) https://reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/nhbvu8/15_khz_240p_super_resolution_480i_from_gtx_1080/
Also don't feed 115hz to a consumer set... It should either be 60hz@240p (or the PAL equivalent) or 30hz@480i (60 interlaced frames per second) (or the PAL equivalent) to be a 15khz horizontal refresh rate.
I don't know what the PAL equivalent is?, but something interesting happened when, I typed in the exact numbers and resolutions, as was mentioned in that plebbit post.
The image almost became "fine"
I'm guessing PAL would be 50hz@288p and 50hz@576i try both sync polarities negative. If that doesn't work, try the polarities you haven't tried yet.
Your CRT is being fed a 720p signal and it can't display it. That's why you're seeing 3s at 480i. You need to send the right resolution to it
When I try to feed it 480i or 576i, I get this
This is why you play on original hardware.
you can do some crazy modeline shit under linux to get it to work maybe
Should I just buy this instead?
Yes. Buy many. Buy many from my ebay shop.
The signal is 31khz and your TV is 15khz. That's why your image isn't syncing.
Get a pc and cheap ATI gpu.
Install CRT Emudriver.
Hook it up via a vga>component transcoder.
I've been emulating like this for 8 years now.
No reason to do so, it's an outdated method, anon got it to work already.
You can use RetroArch and GroovyMAME with automatic mode switching with this method too, I have no idea why people would think the opposite, use all the same modelines as CRT Emudriver if you want, nothing is stopping you, you don't have to install CRT Emudriver thought or use a old ATi GPU.
>everything I don't like is samegay
Not an argument.
Niggy that was the first post I made in this thread, literally new IP
>
Germany alone has almost 1/3rd of the population of the whole of USA, pretty ignorant to think such things
https://www.germanysmash.de/
>What? Did you fail geography or something? Yurope don't have half the people US does.
Why did you delete your post?
>a thread died for this shit
You Black folk are so uneducated, its honestly shocking sometimes
>noo how dare you talk a out retro gaming setups in a board about retro gaming hardware and games
a fricking braincell died reading your post
For a VGA CRT is it possible to use an OSSC to upscale 15khz console signals to 120hz/30hz for my VGA CRT to run it in 240p
Why not use a device that outputs composite but outputs 240p, i heard the Raspberry Pi and Mister can or will soon, i dont know.
I'm trying to use my actual consoles, I like emulating games I don't own but I'd rather use my carts if available
My VGA can do 120hz 240P though when connected to my main PC
>My VGA can do 120hz 240P though when connected to my main PC
>120hz
as I said, enjoy your double images
Overpriced in my area and I already have a 240p CRT so might as well use it, it also gets a decent image imo
at 120hz? man I bet it must look like ass in motion
I set it up on my pc again to capture some footage, IRL the colors look way better than what my phone could capture and I dont see or feel any ghosting. Please excuse the terrible gameplay I had to use one had to record and Ganker still uses webms so excuse the quality too
It's not something you can capture on video, it's a problem with biological eyes and your brain. Not really noticeable with small sprites but move around so the level scrolls fast, then track the trees and map with your eyes, you'll see them twice.
That lools pretty good imo.
Why use composite if you can use RGB? Why use a limited device when you can use a PC?
MiSTer can output RGB too though at 15kHz.
>to 120hz
enjoy your double images
>VGA CRT
Isnt a decent consumer TV CRT better anyways?
Depends for what, CRT TVs are better for 240p and 480i, VGA CRTs are better for 480p and higher.
Using a VGA CRT for 240p is way too sharp and you have to use BFI or you get ghosting of motion thanks to having to run at 120Hz when the content is 60Hz.
>Using a VGA CRT for 240p is way too sharp and you have to use BFI or you get ghosting of motion thanks to having to run at 120Hz when the content is 60Hz.
Of course you can just run at 4x resolution and integrer scale with filters at 60Hz too.
That's way too sharp.
OH you meant ghosting, that's my bad for being tech illiterate. I've never noticed that myself and it felt fine
Some call it ghosting, some double images. It's when content framerate is lower than the refresh rate.
Currently using Retroarch via my Wii Mini, yes its 240p this time, via composite but looks fine surprisingly enough considering how shitty my CRT is.
I wanted tp run the ImageViewer of RA but older versions dont seem to have it and most builds dont run at all on the wii mini.
guys
should i use vga or hdmi on my lcd monitor? i mostly play ps1 and snes games with crt shaders
VGA will result in some artifacts while HDMI or DVI will look 100% correct
Obviously you should use the digital ones and not VGA