>ctrl+f "Dune"
>0 results
what do we think of this /vst/? Do I like it?
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>ctrl+f "Dune". >0 results
>ctrl+f "Dune"
>0 results
what do we think of this /vst/? Do I like it?
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It's shit and the theme limits it.
They made fremen into black Americans.
This is absolutely valid criticism. Shitters will deny this and cry racism.
I am still mad that they cast in a nation where it wouldn't be an issue to find Arabic and Arabic heritage actors a popular black American well known for a fricking high school drama.
Especially when Chani is described as a probably Maghrebi descended girl, red hair but tan skin.
Its 10000 years in the future so modern ethnicities dont really apply. As long as its consistent internally it's not really a problem. That said black american Fremen is legit immersion breaking, pulls me right the frick out
>Its 10000 years in the future so modern ethnicities dont really apply.
It kinda does though. Because in Frank Herbert's canon it's pretty subtly implied that various ethnicities scattered to specific homeworlds, the Atreides are Greeks, the Harkonnen are Germano-Finns and the Fremen are Circassian-Arabic-Berbers. Mind you, there are outliers like in the real world, and I don't mind there being some black Fremen, but depicting most of them as Black Americans is ridiculous (like you said)
The Atreides are Spaniards. The old Duke literally died bull fighting
He did die that way, but the Atreides are explicitly descended from Agamemnon and therefore they claim to be greek.
Honestly I've always had a bit of an issue with that - we couldn't trace the genealogy of those royal families directly today, let alone many thousands of years in the future. I've always assumed it's a story the great houses tell themselves but the truth of it, even in-universe, is probably questionable.
I mean, given the Reverend Mothers’ ability to pull from the memories of their genetic ancestors, often personified as independent aspects of their consciousness, and Pauls unique (for a male) acquisition of this trait due to being the Kwisatz Haderach, he may very well be able to directly confirm if he’s descended from Atreus as the house name would suggest.
Yeah but that's Brian Herbert canon. I am talking about Frank Herbert's canon which never mentioned the bull fighting detail.
Its heavily implied by the first book they mention that the old duke was a bull-fighter and that certain characters do not like the bull wall-mount because of its history. What else could they be referring to?
Jesus, the bull mount was in the first book? I thought it was original to the movie and based on that shitty Brian Herbert fan-fiction, I must've overlooked it then.
To be fair, they still have heavily Mediterrenean features based on description. So I'd still say there's a bigger chance of them being related to Greeks (or even Spaniards given I was wrong in my assessment of it being Brian Herbert exclusive canon)
As for the phonebook trivia, I wasn't aware of that, Kinda surprised me to hear honestly.
I did read the books, I just haven't reread the first book in at least 8 years or so. I also more-or-less dropped the prequels out of pure disgust when they did the whole robot war shit, and they also talked about the Bull fighting shit, so I guess since I associated everything in the prequels as being Brian's moronic OC material that I failed to notice the bull fighting backstory idea was already in the first book.
Yeah I don't read too much into the descriptions of characters beyond the dramatic superficial stuff like how the Harkonnens all have red hair.
It's a weird situation where so much time has passed and so much has happened. My interpretation of the Dune setting is that drawing direct lines of observation to the past is impossible, and that is intentional.
You have the Padishah, but does that mean that the overarching dominion of humanity was Iranian cultured, or just that the Corrino are?
Your main demonstration of populations of people in the books are just Fremen and the houses themselves. But the houses themselves are small groups within the aristocracy who will breed for prestige and appearance and because the female illuminati are trying to arbitrarily produce an omniscient prophet. It is almost impossible that the non-ruling Atreides have any unifying racial identity(or at least one that can be directly tied to one IRL) and as you have a feudal system in place, even if houses were once racially pure then they certainly wouldn't be after awhile. Even if the Harkonnen were magically pure Russian or Finnish or whatever and the Atreides were pure Spanish or Greek, like Paul is suddenly 1/4 Finnish because Bene Gesserit. There is no way the houses haven't politically married and intermingled and legitimized bastards and all sorts of genealogical noise that yields considerable impurity.
Even languages are tenuous connections considering how dispersed and seemingly random they are. I'd imagine things like ye olde hunting language being Circassian or whatever is probably less a consequence of direct descendance and more like how the US military has occasionally used native american languages as code. Something like that could have simply stuck.
And yeah the phonebook story is good. Though I sorta got it wrong(or at least not specific enough). Herbert thought Harkonnen sounded "Soviet". Which he probably interpreted as evil anyway.
>Yeah I don't read too much into the descriptions of characters beyond the dramatic superficial stuff like how the Harkonnens all have red hair.
I mean, I've usually come to the interpretation that when Frank Herbert describes characters, there is a significance to it. Which is why I cling to the interpretation of Atreides = Greek/Spanish/Meds. Because I've always wondered if Frank chose them to be of Greek origin due to the significance the Greeks have had over history as well as the role they've had in depicting heroism in their stories. Sure, Frank can be superficial at times, but I feel there's an intention towards the naming process.
>It's a weird situation where so much time has passed and so much has happened. My interpretation of the Dune setting is that drawing direct lines of observation to the past is impossible, and that is intentional.
That may be. But my assumption was that planets were divided up by ethnicity-based colonialists. That is to say that specific ethnogroups and nations of the past colonised specific planets. So the Atreides bloodline and Caladan may have been founded by the Greeks. That was the basis of my initial argument. Of course, those ethnogroups may have naturally evolved through migration and cultural mixing (hence why we have what should be "Soviet"/russian characters with Finnish names). But the implications I took is that the old cultures and ethnicities still survive after thousands of years and naturally evolve when colonising in space, just like they did historically.
Do note, I haven't read the Dune Encyclopedia yet (which I know isn't completely canon, but it's better than Brian's canon) so this headcanon might be hilariously wrong.
(cont.)
>Do note, I haven't read the Dune Encyclopedia yet (which I know isn't completely canon, but it's better than Brian's canon) so this headcanon might be hilariously wrong.
hahahah holy shit
I bought a copy from a thrift store I volunteered at like 5 years ago and forgot I fricking had the thing until now.
Regarding the House Atreides it merely mentions line after line of Greek larp, no other cultures or ethnicities are mentioned. There isn't much detail beyond the repeated naming of individual members of the house(who are all named something greek) ruling different feudal titles at different points(these are also all just named greek things)
And yeah
>I've usually come to the interpretation that when Frank Herbert describes characters, there is a significance to it.
It might be my style of reading but I only have a loose visual interpretation of what I'm reading and it is secondary to other aspects. Like reading Malazan book of the fallen I just kinda missed the description that one group of people have blue skin because it doesn't really matter. I do get a firm grasp of the behavioral nuances and character that people believe the blue skinned folk to have, but I just don't think about it.
Like in what I typed out before, my broad impressions of language and culture and an ethnic soup are my main takeaway rather than specifics.
Something else that I forgot to mention is how Miles Teg is reportedly like a 1:1 lookalike to Duke Leto I and there are thousands of years between them. Which is another aspect of what the ethnic appearances of characters might mean. With so much genetic noise taking place between point A and point B but yielding purely coincidental results I just sorta disengage from there being much meaning behind what people look like.
>hahahah holy shit
>I bought a copy from a thrift store I volunteered at like 5 years ago and forgot I fricking had the thing until now.
Jesus dude, do you know how much a copy of that book is worth now? Especially since Brian took it all off the shelves.
>Regarding the House Atreides it merely mentions line after line of Greek larp, no other cultures or ethnicities are mentioned. There isn't much detail beyond the repeated naming of individual members of the house(who are all named something greek) ruling different feudal titles at different points(these are also all just named greek things)
I guess that either implies some kind of Greek larp, or the Atreides really were culturally Greek and originally ethnically as well.
>It might be my style of reading but I only have a loose visual interpretation of what I'm reading and it is secondary to other aspects.
That's fair. Everyone has their style of reading, I focus a lot on what is visually described and then try to imagine in my head how it's like. Which is part of the reason I was satisfied with Dune 2021 with some of the visual choices as some of them looked spot-on (Other ones? Not so much)
>Something else that I forgot to mention is how Miles Teg is reportedly like a 1:1 lookalike to Duke Leto I and there are thousands of years between them.
I honestly believe it may have to do with the fact that maybe Frank doesn't have a grounded interpretation of genetics and how ethnicities change along the years. I mean, he does a lot of research don't get me wrong, but he's not above taking shortcuts as we saw (see: Phonebook story)
(cont.)
(cont'd)
>I've read all your posts and if I'm not specifically replying to something I'm mostly of the mind that we'll just never know and each of our interpretations are simply fine for each of us to simultaneously possess.
That's fair, I am of the same opinion at this point honestly.
>but so much stuff early in the setting is so deliberately vague that such speculation will never really dig its hooks into anything.
I think that's what it boils down to. And to be fair, I think my biggest error in my original post is that I stated with certainty that the ethnical origins mattered, when really it was definitely interpretation/headcanon from my side.
I kinda wish Frank explored more of the early period, but unfortunately all we have is the Encyclopedia and Brian's shitty fan-fiction.
>Another impression I have that is different is that I sorta perceive that after the fall of earth to the machines, that humanity just kinda stumbled around for awhile, and it was in this period in which ethnic lines blurred beyond recognition.
To be fair, that's the same interpretation I had. In fact, that's the reason I interpreted the whole "ethnicities spearheading their own colonial ventures" interpretation. Because with a humanity that isn't unified, each ethnogroup and culture group just sorta goes their own way and colonises their own specific planet. In fact, I always thought that the discovery of Arrakis lead to the opposite happening and that the Fremen were the result of different ethnogroups migrating in and forming their own unique culture.
Yeah, but he mentioned the "Lynchverse", which I can only speculate as meaning the 80s movies and perhaps Dune 2000 and Emperor because of the similar FMV style and consistent elements (i.e. Heart-plugs), that's where the confusion appeared.
But yeah, I know he's talking about Gholas, but that's why I got confused, because Gholas didn't appear in the 1984 movie to my knowledge (or did they?).
I never considered it, looks like a couple hundo. Not bad considering I got it for 50 australian cents. Movie's release is gonna be inflating that substantially, I'd imagine.
Well how about that huh.
Yeah it could be larp or it could be legitimate. But we're talking about a very long existence in a feudal system dominated by another house. Space is likely a very, very potent cultural insulator but I dunno, the extent to which things are spelled out seems to be like they're "trying too hard". I don't really have much of an argument to prove that, it's just the impression I get of a very pointed naming convention over so long. You mentioned one specific ethnicity ruling others for extended periods in a previous post. In those examples over such grand timescales there is usually at least some incorporation of the governing identity into smaller components.
Also I skimmed through the Encyclopedia before, apparently Leto I's father was named "Minotaurous" or something to that effect. Just a little detail as bull-fighting and iberian ethnicity being previously discussed. Bull-fighting itself is clearly iberian but bulls also did feature prominently in greek culture. So it might just be a relatively recent fixation and a shared passion/gesture contained within a couple of generations only.
Leto II is probably my favorite fictional character, and while I have a firm image of him in my head as he is quite distinctly described. I don't really constantly picture him or smaller visual nuances that would naturally accompany his many dialogue scenes with others. His grand height is likely commonly applied body language with people, resting down at eye level to calm a conversational partner or rising to full height and glowering down at somebody. These likely occur and I can imagine them if I choose to think about such things, by brain just doesn't organically consider them so much. His baby face is also a weird thing I sorta blank out while I'm reading God Emperor.
Yeah Miles Teg I think is mostly intended to simply evoke personality and detail of the old Duke to work alongside Idaho in that book. It's a supreme coincidence that exists mostly to define a character and work with another character and any considerations of the genetic coincidence being dramatically unlikely simply did not factor into his decision making.
I think I'm okay with the early history being unexplored. I'm fairly passionate about history and will absorb historical information about something if given an opportunity, but I think the absence of historical knowledge alters the way we perceive things and not in a negative way. It is just different and interesting how we'll fill different historical holes and with what and which such holes see the most attention.
I meant to indicate that the stumbling around of humanity was a period of relative unity, contrary to all else. Space travel was slow and dangerous so adventurers were unlikely and it is probably only considerable time spent under a very centralized feudal system that the system survived as long as it did after humanity then spread out to multiple planets.
I do not believe that Gholas were mentioned in Lynch's Dune. Clones may have been, as like an aside or to describe certain things like perhaps the Harkonnens are said to have vat grown servants or is extrapolation of the appearance of the spacing guild(beyond just the navigators) appearing particularly artifical, aesthetically.
If he's referring to anything beyond the 1984 with the "lynchverse" tag I can't determine what it might be.
I've read all your posts and if I'm not specifically replying to something I'm mostly of the mind that we'll just never know and each of our interpretations are simply fine for each of us to simultaneously possess. Or I just agree and don't have any further comment.
I didn't get the impression that you meant completely pure ethnicities, don't worry about that. Colonial endeavors being spearheaded by different ethnic groups is indeed a possibility, but so much stuff early in the setting is so deliberately vague that such speculation will never really dig its hooks into anything.
Another impression I have that is different is that I sorta perceive that after the fall of earth to the machines, that humanity just kinda stumbled around for awhile, and it was in this period in which ethnic lines blurred beyond recognition. With only the discovery of Arrakis and the spice enabling the guild to enable humanity to once again diversify.
Also regarding vat-grown clones that anon is mentioning. I assume they're talking about Ghola and then that they're speculating.
As the technology to regrow people who once lived isn't really applied in the books beyond just repeatedly bringing one character back, it is hard to say just how expensive and rare or how common Ghola are.
And that that poster is extrapolating on the idea that they're common(at least among the houses) and that a family's ethnicity could be blurred or sharpened by strange genealogical applications of Ghola. Like you could see the Harkonnen having like a 1000 year old Harkonnen matriarch that is renowned as being the hottest piece of ass to ever grace the galaxy so they pump out Gholas of her to frick and you end up with the same genes disproportionately represented in a family's line more than would be possible with natural breeding. Sort of how Leto II remarks on breeding Idahos into his Atreides line every 500 years or so. If multiple houses partake of such behavior then you're left with an even harder to pin down ethnic genealogy.
>Caladan may have been founded by the Greeks
I like to imagine Greece sent all the turkish mutts and gays there, and the good part of their population to Olympia.
>You have the Padishah, but does that mean that the overarching dominion of humanity was Iranian cultured, or just that the Corrino are?
I've assumed that Corino just happened to be the dynasty that ended up ruling. It's not abnormal in history for other ethnicity to dominate Empires if their dynasty happens to somehow get control of the Empire.
>It is almost impossible that the non-ruling Atreides have any unifying racial identity(or at least one that can be directly tied to one IRL)
Okay to be fair. I should've specified that I don't think they are FULLY pure. But I do think there is a dominating cultural identity, and to an extent, even if their genetics aren't fully Med, they certainly look fully Med. Literally every noble family has mixed to the point where their genetics would be unidentifiable. If you look at the English royal family, you can see mixes of almost every nation in Europe. But my point was moreso the fact that the planets and families were founded by those ethnicities, and therefore the people and culture group of those ethnicities would still dominate. Don't forget the people of Caladan and Atreides' army wouldn't be affected by the nobility mixing, the majority may still stay culturally and ethnically Greek.
>I'd imagine things like ye olde hunting language being Circassian or whatever is probably less a consequence of direct descendance and more like how the US military has occasionally used native american languages as code. Something like that could have simply stuck.
Yeah Circassian is a stretch of mine that I took from another post. I think that the likelihood that it was used by the ethnical groups as a lingua franca for some symbolic reason is more likely than the fact there were actual Circassians among them. Or perhaps the Circassian language had a revival at some point in history. Who knows?
>Herbert thought Harkonnen sounded "Soviet". Which he probably interpreted as evil anyway.
That makes sense.
(cont.)
>post was too long but also wanted to add yeah frick everything Brian has ever written
Agreed
>noooo can't be a caricature of hedonism to represent the decadence of aristocracy and the (LITERALLY) inflated possibilities of excess that the grander scale a sci-fi setting offers
That alongside the robot war bullshit is what caused me to drop the prequels. Brian completely assassinated the meaning of so many of the characters and concepts of Dune that it just became generic sci-fi. It's absolutely fricking shit.
>AAAA it makes me mildly upset until I remember to deliberately forget that Frank Herbert ever had a son again
Considering how much Brian bastardised and spat on his father's work. I am sure Frank feels the same way.
Vat-grown clones were in the Lynch movie? Or are you thinking of Emperor Battle for Dune? I know my memory is kinda shit, but from what I saw of the Lynch movie, I didn't see any of the vat clones.
Westwood games are based on the Lynch adaptation, I was referring to them. Specifically to Emperor, which features an explicitly identical Ghola copy of the Emperor and confirms that they're pretty much just vat grown people.
post was too long but also wanted to add yeah frick everything Brian has ever written. When double checking the phonebook story I unearthed this, regarding the Baron Harkonnen:
>the Prelude to Dune prequel trilogy by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson explains that Harkonnen was once a fit, attractive but vain man who is given the incurable disease intentionally by the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother Mohiam after he drugs and rapes her.
noooo can't be a caricature of hedonism to represent the decadence of aristocracy and the (LITERALLY) inflated possibilities of excess that the grander scale a sci-fi setting offers
no it has to be a dumb moron story with something specific you've never heard of before and never will again.
Also Bene Gesserit are immune to poison and they're so fricking wily that if one of them ever got "raped" it was clearly just part of their breeding program
AAAA it makes me mildly upset until I remember to deliberately forget that Frank Herbert ever had a son again
You also forget a out vat-grown clones, who at the very least in lynchverse are 100% legit and indistinguishable from natural humans. They could easily replace a few people here and there with modified copies to turn families into designer bloodlines without anyone noticing they're descended from literal globohomosexual golems.
>forget about
Frick my sausage fingers.
You’re actually moronic, in the first fricking act of the first fricking book they hang a portrait of the old Duke on one wall and the preserved head of the bull that killed him on the opposite wall
>t. Actual moron who never read the books
The family name is a homage to distant Greeks and a claim of meme 10k year old legitimacy, but they are hardly discernable as Greeks.
Leto II's genetic memory contains like literally everyone because everyone intermingled so much.
Frank Herbert chose a Finnish name for Harkonnen because he found it in a phonebook and thought it sounded evil
Chani in the book is described as having an Elfin face. And the Fremen are said to speak Chakobsa, which is a secret Circassian hunting language from the Northwest Caucasus.
Islam is the only true black religion, after all.
Future islam is the tleilaxu not the fremen
If I'm wrong I thought the whole point of Fremen was that were a culture that wasn't tied to a specific ethnicity. That is why the Barons and Paul couldn't pick the Fremen out of any groups because they looked and dressed the same as the non-Fremen living on Arrakis.
It's also why he couldn't tell if Kynes was a Fremen or not because he showed some Fremen tendencies but also off-world.
Before these homosexuals kill this thread with their Black person obsession, how have y'all enjoyed multiplayer?
There's a dune thread already though & it's even up there at the top.
People who enjoyed Northgard will probably enjoy playing it as well.
Also it's woke.
it's alright, last time I played the Fremen were really strong and I was able to kill off all the other factions in a few minutes. New patch reworked a lot of stuff and added multiplayer so I'll have to catch up on that
so the next update is gonna add a new faction
what do you all think it will be
>inb4 house Ordos
its probably gonna be house Corrino imo
>house Ordos
won'r happen
Probably will be the Emperor
House Corrino is already in the game, in a way. I was dicking around in a singleplayer game, watching the last AI get pounded into submission by Landsraad guards, had all of their villages in rebellion. No idea what triggered it, but one of the villages suddenly had Sardaukar on it, checked the unit and it was basically a slightly stronger Landsraad guard, dressed in white, and the unit ability was "execution", instantly kills units below 20% hp. Faction it belonged to was House Corrino. They stuck around for a bit, I guess the rebel units lost supply because they were in a "contested" village, rebels died, militia came out, Sardaukar wiped the floor with them, then liberated the village and disappeared.
I know this sounds like some "my dad works at Nintendo shit". I should have taken a screenshot.
that sounds interesting as frick
wonder if anyone has already datamined the game
Da, someone has, and yes it seems almost certain that Corino is the next house/faction to be added
>https://m.imgur.com/a/yGjdDmW
Digging to find that link was fun... I went to the steam forums and the amount of people calling for house Ordos to be added, or saying with absolute certainty that house Corino could never be playable because muh emperor wouldn't get involved beyond being an arbiter of the conflict was frankly hypnotic
The Emperor will sic the Sardaukar on you if you miss 3 (I think) spice payments.
I feel this could be early concept stuff before they decided to go with the spice payment mechanic, who would you even make payments to as the Emperor and what would be the punishment for defaulting.
Bene gesserit seems like an easy go to choice and they could give them a mechanic revolving around infiltrating enemy infantry units or councillor assassination. I'd like to see the tleilaxu personally, or they could make their own donut great house. More great houses would make the political system better since 2/4 factions hardly compete in the voting at the moment so something like house richese would be cool
Got it to happen again. I think it must be when a village is rebelling for too long or something.
You sure you're not thinking about the Landsraad guards that spawn on your main base if you have less than 10 Landsraad standing? I've seen those plenty, but the Sardaukar only twice.
they just confirmed it
Corrinochads..
Emperor CHADdam the IV
ok now that corrino's in who's next, the tleilaxu? the bene gesserit?
except ordos of course, I'd be beyond impressed if the ragtag group of indie devs behind the game managed to snag Ordos' license out of the copyright hell that its stuck in
Maybe CHOAM? Bene Tleilaxu and the Ixian haven't really been developed by Herbert in the first novel.
I don't imagine they'd add CHOAM or the Spacing Guild as player factions, considering they're currently both 3rd-parties you can assign agents to infiltrate. I'd guess maybe Bene Gesserit, although to my recollection they were never really a "direct military involvement" group, at least not at the time of the first Dune book. Then again, there weren't exactly a whole lot of large-scale military efforts to begin with, so some creative leeway for the sake of gameplay makes sense.
I don't know, militant Bene Gesserit sounds a lot like Honored Matres, whose violent approach on everything lies on the opposite spectrum of Bene Gesserit's subtleties.
True, although that never stopped the board game from giving the BG actual combat units.
trouts
>snag Ordos' license out of the copyright hell that its stuck in
Didn't EA lost the rights to Dune? Not to mention the Westwood incarnation of Ordos (and yes, they exist in the Dune Encyclopedia but the Westwood one is the better known) especially since Westwood ceased existence?
WW had the rights to visuals and basically everything beyond just name, that went to EALA after the reorganisation, and eventually to EA's main company. So they own the designs, the characters and essentially what everyone knows the thing as, but don't have access to the identity and name. They're also very pissed off about the license going to some homosexuals who disregard all of their projects, so there's no feasible way for them to cooperate and get the faction and its name back together.
>what do we think of this /vst/?
That your royal highness should frick off to Ganker, the mindless hive board.
>That your royal highness should frick off to Ganker, the mindless hive board.
spotted atreides bottom
>play fremen
>vs harkonnen & smugglers
>expand n shit
>everything going well
>get a message from the smugglers
>something something "helping me exploit my resources" dont care shut up
>fast forward steamrolling some harkonnensissies in the east
>trading resources regularly with smugglers, relationship level around 20 or something.
>all my military units are on the east, leave west unprotected
>dont expect attacks from smugglers, since they're busy annexing shit down south
>get another message from the smugglers
>yadda yadda "troops in my territory"
>homie not a single unit is even near your territory
>keep micro-ing the harkonnen attack
>suddenly see combat alert pop up
>check my westernmost village
>6 smuggler units laying waste to my 2 militia units protecting the village
>harkonnens activate combat drugs so the fight turns into a pain in the ass
>can't even send a small contingent to kill the smugglers since I have no thumpers left
>think "they're probably just gonna pillage it, its whatever"
>they fricking annex it
frick the smugglers
literal israelites
My biggest problem with the game is the diplomacy. Unless you play atreides and force naps on people this happens all the time. You can spend the game bribing the shit out of a player and still get invaded for no other reason than that you were too busy to stop it
I wish there were more diplomacy options
or at least make bribing/trading worth it
>You can spend the game bribing the shit out of a player and still get invaded for no other reason than that you were too busy to stop it
This is the entire point of the diplomacy and it's intentional.
The game is not meant to be another CIV game that ends up being a NAP simulator and turtling up on +science wonders.
They intentionally made it so there are no peace treaties or treaties being bound by a NAP so players are always wary/preparing for potential backstab and that no one is actually your friend even if you are sometimes on common ground.
is the entire game about generic gay orange wasteland 54079?
no, you get a jungle world and an ice world and a space station
it's a fricking Dune game what do you think it's gonna be? There's nothing else but arrakis and the desert and the spice, that's dune in 3 words
absolute brainlet
Do you know what Dune is brainlet
your IQ is -54079
mega link when
I hope it gets a GOG release soon
its probably just a matter of time
nothgard got a gog release, dont see why this game wouldnt
DUNC sucks
the only good dune is the 2019 boardgame, and only if you have 6 players.
Dune Imperium is fine too.
eh, fair. it's hard to frick up a deckbuilder.
but i won't consider it really /vst/ material so i don't mention it
How the frick do we still not have full patchnotes for the new version yet.
I hate the "modern GUI", it is so sterile
the board game is better
why don't they just remake that in vidya form?
Tried it out recently. Atreides and the Fremen are fun but I can't really figure out the Smugglers or Harkonnen. Smugglers I guess are all about raiding but also about going long-term with their underground bases. The Harkonnen oppression stuff just seems to make your economy really fragile, you always have too much stuff or not enough and then have the spend ages dealing with rebellions instead of expanding. Are their Executioners' ability meant to be permanent like the Mercenary one? Buffing them up by murdering rebels seems to be what they're for, but the buff goes away once out of combat.
Atreides feels the most simple, just grow and defend. Fremen are really fun, get an absolute strangehold over the deep deserts. The eco buffs for keeping villages neutral is cool and thematic. The Kulons might be a bit too strong.
schemes and alliances are hard to have AIs do. Can just play the boardgame on tabletop sim with other humans.
The videogame does feel like it took some hints from the boardgame. The mechanics for worms eating your harvesters, the sandstorms, and shuttles and the spy abilities all feel a bit similar to the boardgame (the cards for the spy abilities).
the peaceful annexation ability of the Atreides is fricking great, the Fremen thumper travel is also neat, being able to go basically anywhere as long as you have enough thumpers
Funnily enough im also having issues with the Harkonnens, I tried going full "aggressive moron" and building troops en masse while doing the whole balancing act with my economy, but I still get curbstomped by the other factions, the combat drugs op helps to an extent but still
I've done a single game as everyone but Harkonnen so far, so I'm by no means an expert, but here's my 2 cents. Smugglers strong point is definitely the underworld headquarters stuff. The buildings you can get there sync up with just about any playstyle you could want to go for. Feel like conquering? Build the explosive stockpiles and nuke their militia when you attack. Sitting back and playing the long game? Spyware to slowly steal their techs and bootleg markets to profit off their economy. Just want to raid? Contraband cache to pillage up to 500 each of spice, plascrete, and solari. In short, I'd say Smuggler's MO is "If you profit, I profit". The bounty on Landsraad resolutions is also a nice tool. Use it to shift some votes towards something you want to pass, or as a distraction on something that'll pass easily anyway, to shift votes away from something you want to have more control over.
As far as the Harkonnens go, just from looking at their faction traits, they seem about as strong as the others. With just the default of 3 militia in a village, you get 5% bonus production (-10% base, +5% per militia). Councillors also have a big impact on your playstyle. With Feyd-Rautha and Rabban your village production gets boosted even further in general, and Oppression becomes a fantastic way to boost your position in politics and espionage. With Iakin you're set up to be stupidly aggressive militarily. Units functionally cost half as much, ditto for the combat drugs op, so you have a disposable, roided up army to throw at your opponents.
Oh, also, I don't think any of those troop buffs are permanent. The Scavengers, assuming that's what you're referring to, get +power and +hp regen until the end of combat when an enemy unit dies. Free Company, the Smugglers' elite unit, gets +power based on the missing health of the unit it's currently fighting. I suspect the Harkonnen's Executioners have the same condition as the Scavengers, bonus until the end of combat.
yeah I confirmed that. Not sure why I thought the Merc's buff was permanent, guess I just saw it linger awhile after combat once.
It does makes the Executioner's speed buff pretty baffling. There's not many cases where you can use a speed buff on a glass cannon unit in a combat after it's already killed something.
> Feyd-Rautha and Rabban
is the combo I've tried. The problem with Oppression is the 50% productivity and daily rebellion chance debuff afterwards. If you use the extra waterfuel an Oppressed village gives you you're basically forced into spamming it or you'll go into resource deficit. Constantly having Oppression running is what Feyd-Rautha encourages anyway. Rabban is probably worth it just for the extra militia slot and corresponding 5% bonus.
I could see the speed buff being useful to chase down fleeing troops, or to make your own escape. Not much use if it's just 2 sides duking it out, though. Also keep in mind that buff is when any unit dies, ally or enemy, regardless of what killed it. If you have a stealth probe and an executioner, the probe dying ultimately causes that executioner to get +35% power, +2 armor, and +5% speed.
As far as Oppression goes, yeah, it doesn't seem like it'd be a good idea to use extra water/fuel cells you'd get from it, although you might not always know exactly how much excess you have due to Oppression at any given time. Still, with Feyd-Rautha killing rebels is basically free influence. Sucks if the village is inoperative when your troops are away, but it's not the worst thing in the world considering you get x3 production for the 2 days prior.
Oh yeah the stealth probes. I didn't get that tech before giving up but that synergy does make sense.
>not the worst thing in the world considering you get x3 production for the 2 days prior
It can be worse if a village rebelling also puts you into resource deficit leading to further debuffs. I ran out of money very briefly and lost a bit of landsraad standing leaving me with ~199 after paying my second spice tax, which flows onto still having the lower spice exchange rate for longer, was a feels bad man.
Seems like Harkonnen can either go wide in which case you're pillaging constantly for the authority discount, or go tall squeezing everything you can out of less villages with Oppression and farming your rebels with Feyd.
Certainly seems like the most nuanced faction to play well.
You can literally make villages with 6 millitia. I tried doing spice villages only with 1 bulding for that 40% bonus + 30% from millitia and it did wonders.
Also for the best income just get power cells tech for selling it and spam powercells in every village, easy money.
>planetary-scale RTS game
>run around with 6 units at most
nope
it isnt planetary scale you massive fricking moron
i'm sorry you're fricking stupid, but playable area the game provides you is indeed the full extent of the habitable area of Arrakis. but be that as it may, even if it 1/3 of the planet surface in the world map, there's no reason to gimp military conquest so hard. it's clear the game is made by pacifist pussies who really really really REALLY liked game of thrones
>area the game provides you is indeed the full extent of the habitable area of Arrakis
t. the spacing guild
The meta in their other game is destroying your eco to send the biggest military rush possible as soon as possible.
i guess they're just moronic?
weak bait
did you really like the game or something? is it your super-special video game now? what's exactly is great about it?
namegays are the most insufferable Black folk on this website
let the autists discuss their videogames you attention seeking homosexual
don't dodge the question, why do you think this game is good? i played one game, won, and felt I had already tried everything the game had to provide and I was not impressed. why did you play your second game?
So is the game good or not? I'm thinking about grabbing it on sale
pirate it first
It's pretty solid and much better than Northgaard. There are still some restrictions that take getting used to but if you like Dune I think it's an easy recommend. I didn't like Northgaard but this game is the best civlike game I've played in a while.
Safest bet is to wait for it to come out of early access, which should be the end of this year.
i got immediate northgard flashbacks from the economy gameplay
>random law fricks with my plascrete income
>income drops to from +50 to -5 momentarily just as i'm building shit
>plascrete default causes a rebellion in my main plascrete output city
>income drops to -55 instead
>cannot build a new plascrete factory because it costs, funny enough, plascrete
>more defaults causing more rebellions, causing more defaults, etc.
>neighbor rolls in and fricks my ass while i can't do anything
you can trade influence or intel or spice to get out of plascretesolari death spirals.
yeah I did a Rabban + Nefud game and was a total eco powerhouse. Once you've got some of the intel techs and main base buildings, plus the 10k hegemony bonus, Harks can really pump out assassinations.
Nefud is quite fun to just unga bunga throw armies at things.
I have no idea how you're meant to get the Governorship political victory. Max votes and influence is 700, and the other factions tend to all vote it down so it isn't that hard for them to counter. The council being so RNG also takes away from the strategy a bit, can't really plan that far ahead.
The map gen is also quite swingy, There's some really good village bonuses that can stack with region bonuses to give insane production. And then there's just having very highly connected regions so a single maint centre or shai hulud temple is super efficient.
It's actually possible, as any faction, to get higher than 700 combined vote + influence. The district bonus in your main base for lv 2 district with blue buildings is +100 max influence, so at bare minimum you can get 800 total with 1 lv 2 blue district. The Atreides 10k heg bonus of 2%? bonus productivity across the board whenever you're elected to a positive resolution also actually affects votes, crazily enough. So I believe you can get up to 220 votes as Atreides. And the Fremen get that unique building that applies the district bonus 3 times instead of just once, and counts as a building of every type, although I imagine you'd want to spend that on a lv 1 district so you can get 60% research bonus on all 3 tech types. Still, if you used that on a lv 2 blue district you could get 800 influence as Fremen, just off a single lv2 district.
All that said, getting the governorship isn't easy. You'd probably have to have max influence and put all your votes on yourself. At least with the Fremen and the Smugglers you have the option of giving a bit of a distraction on some other resolutions, even if the AI isn't likely to just give up a win condition for a few thousand Solaris.
God Northgaard's economy seemed so promising at first, only for me to realize four hours in the AI completely ignored having an economy and the entire thing was tedious slow grindy bullshit.
It's terrible
CHADtreides > Fremen > Harkonnens > Sm*gglers
Atrecucks are as far from Chad as you can get without devolving into a worm, and not the sand variety.
t.hargonnen DD:D
Just got the game, what are the victory conditions like? Can I pick Atreodes, go full diplomacy, and win with barely any army?
6 units max for all factions :^)
the victory conditions are
>political
get elected as dune governor and hold the title for like 60 ingame days, during that time I've noticed that the AI turns more aggro and will try to frick you in the ass so prepare
>domination
just destroy the capital cities of the other factions, simple as, not so simple to pull off, you might have success with the Fremen or Harkonnen
>assasination
assasinate the leaders of the other factions, via spy ops, you'll need a lot of intel and focusing a lot on infiltration
>hegemony
just accumulate hegemony until you reach 20k, there are plenty of buildings that generate hegemony n shit
hegemony and political are easier to pull off with Atreides and yes, you can do that, first win I got with Atreides was political, had like 5 military units at the end of the game
t.braindead Black person that hasnt played the fricking game
you need military experience to train units, that you can get by killing other units, military buildings and researching tech, cap is actually around 60
Have you played Northgard? There's a similar kind of "score" victory, which you get at 30k Hegemony. You also get various bonuses at 2k, 5k, and 10k Hegemony, and it's something you'll naturally accumulate. Military victory is the standard "kill everyone", but I think you can do it either through destroying the main base, or using espionage to assassinate all other leaders. And then there's the "political" victory, which involves you getting elected to be governor of dune, and holding that position for a while. Basically just means you'll be throwing all your political capital on that resolution when it shows up in the votes, and you'll be throwing all your political capital around to keep it.
Human players certainly aren't going to let you sit back and win any particular victory, and I doubt the AI will either.
i kinda like the fact that every wincon has considerable counterplay from every other player, but on the other hand it also seems to have an effect of making matches feel really long and drawn out. some of these matches feel like i'm in the fricking warhammer 40k universe when it's 2-4 giga wealthy houses throwing nukes and armies at each other endlessly until someone's economy folds
So the Fremen worship the sandworms, but they also wish for a green Arrakis even though that would kill the sandworms? What's their deal?
I figure it's probably like ancient humans worshiping thunderstorms (and later the personification thereof). Sandworms are this huge, unstoppable force of nature, capable of massive destruction, but the Fremen get utility out of them as well. They've figured out how to ride them, but most importantly they produce the spice that everyone values so highly, the Fremen in particular from a cultural/religious aspect. At the same time, the Fremen probably also wish they didn't live on the planetary equivalent of Death Valley. And you know what they said about hard times and strong men and all that.
It’s not directly explained in Dune, but through various rituals, musings from characters (especially Liet Kines), and other secondary sources we can assume a few things:
>the fremen were brought as slaves to Arrakis millenia ago to work the spice
>Kines’ father came as planetary ecologist to try to terraform Arrakis, but instead secretly studied the spice
>he learned its origin, he discovered the spice liquor, and most importantly he kept all of this secret from the emperor and the Harkonnens
>Kines and his father bent the existing fremen religion using their desire to make Arrakis liveable
>the fremen were already using the spice liquor to do bene gesserit tricks but Kines and his father taught them the ritual using the water of life in their orgies
>the plan was to use the fremen religion to motivate the fremen into creating “green zones” and large continent-sized oasis fremen could live in. It’s unclear why Kines’ father wanted this so badly, but it was most likely a “neva bin dun befo” kinda thing
>right before Kines dies, he sends messages that imply he really believes Paul Atreides is fremen jesus
>this is part of one of the themes of the book, that being Jessica going from being a cynic in regards to prophecy to accepting she probably living one out
>his father
*her
i'd frick DUNC's fem!kynes
>Kines’ father came as planetary ecologist to try to terraform Arrakis, but instead secretly studied the spice
Wrong. Kynes father went to Dune to check why it was not possible to get sandworms and spice anwyhere else but on Dune.
In the meantime he got to know Fremens and saw their sietches where they had full flora on a dessert planet and began to think how to terraform Dune on a greater scale.
House Ordos will always be a faction in my heart
'ate 'ouse 'Treides
'ate 'ouse Harkonnen
'ate the fremen (not racist just dont like em)
'ate 'ouse Corrino
luv me deviators
luv me saboteur
luv me spice
luv me infiltration
luv me stealth
luv me pain amplifiers
luv me executrix
simple as
Put heart plugs on every atreides dog.
woah there Vladdy, calm down
Not before the house of traitors is proven an evolutionary dead end.
so...
corrino when
Corrino as a house struggling with the other factions on an even plane makes no fricking sense.
>Its heavily implied by the first book they mention that the old duke was a bull-fighter and that certain characters do not like the bull wall-mount because of its history.
No, you're getting confused because the bull is mentioned just alongside the portrait of Leto's dad, but it was Jessica that didn't like the thing and she was referring to the painting, not the bull. She didn't like anything that reminded her of the old Duke because it's where Leto's cold and calculating side came from. The only other person that reacts to the bull is Mapes, when Jessica casually explains that the blood on its horn is from when it killed Leto's dad.
>If I'm wrong I thought the whole point of Fremen was that were a culture that wasn't tied to a specific ethnicity
They are quite literally Muslims. Specifically, descendants of Sunni and Zen Buddhists who were yanked from their homeworld and forced to be colonists elsewhere. Part of a ceremony has them chant about being denied the Hajj.
If anything, one of the many silly things about the setting is how many ethnicities and cultural traits are still alive and recognizable ten thousand years on. israelites show up later on. Not some space future version of Judaism, just straight-up regular everyday israelites.
>Corrino as a house struggling with the other factions on an even plane
its already confirmed
I am curious how it'll look mechanically. You're extremely strong but if you actually use that strength the Landsraad/Spacing Guild band together to frick you up?
The steam blurb implies you'll get the spice tax other factions pay, which is quite similar to the Dune boardgame. In that the other main thing Corrino does is support other players, trying to get them to attack their enemies, etc.
>how many ethnicities and cultural traits are still alive and recognizable ten thousand years on
It makes the interesting strange things in the setting more strange by juxtaposing them with the familiar. The strength of tradition is also a theme. Its solid writing.
>Corrino as a house struggling with the other factions on an even plane makes no fricking sense.
the game doesn't make any fricking sense
It's not completely nonsensical to have Corrino around since as the Emperor they'd only have the crown land with most of the planets and other parts of the empire being governed by the other houses.
You could swing it as the crown trying to seize land from its vassals but Atredies and Harkonnen shooting at the soldiers of their emperor's house will make no sense.
It goes both ways too. In the book it's made clear that the Sardukar aiding the Harkonnen need to be kept super secret because if the emperor were known to have taken direct action against a member of the Landsraad, every other house would instantly form a defensive murderball against him out of fear of being next.
In fact, one of the most hilarious lines in the book is where Harkonnen is talking to Fenring and goes "Who else but the Harkonnens would aid the emperor in stealthily taking down a great house?" and Fenrig replies "The emperor might be asking that question too, with a slightly different emphasis."
Also there's the part about Corrino forces = Sardukar, and however decadent they're supposed to be at the time of Dune, they still absolutely roll over anybody but the Fremen.
in the game's context there's no official states of war and subterfuge and bribing are common. Maybe this could be shown as the corrino being very strong in terms of units but if they don't watch their influence and control in the Landsraad every other faction allies against them and destroys them.
Not a perfect fix but I don't think a Corrino faction is completely impossible. They can be a slow and tanky faction that can become a deathball if allowed to become powerful.