There is none.
A lot of them are fun and have unique qualities but none of them are better than D2. >Titanquest
Fun, but less freedom as D2. >PoE
Very satisfying to play, developers are moronic, 90% of the talent tree nodes are useless, and it feels like 75% of the player base are just people role playing as stockbrockers >Last Epoch
Was bought out by Tencent.
Developers over promise and under deliver.
Game has been in Early access for 4 years
Still no multiplayer
Class talents/skills can be changed a whim; players are not refunded or offer respecs.
The some-definition-of-good Diablo2likes are modded Diablo 2 (my pick would be Path of Diablo), Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, Diablo 3, and Path of Exile.
On the net, I think Grim Dawn is the strongest, and it happens to share the virtue of good atmosphere with D2, although if the developers manage to finish the game fully without ruining the extant level of quality, I expect Last Epoch to overtake it.
To be perfectly honest, it was obvious as soon as it launched in steam that LE was going to be bad. There was some good ideas here and there but the execution was god awful.
>Class talents/skills can be changed a whim; players are not refunded or offer respecs.
Got into LE 3 years ago, made a DW Rive Void Knight, decided to reinstall. Talents/Passive broken, Rive no longer has dual wield synergies with Void Knight (moved to Paladin because Ignite synergies are more prevalent and not a lot of void synergies).
I'm stuck with melee void damage gear, I can't undo a mastery. I can respec but it will cost a frick ton of gold.
New VK knights are afk builds were you just hold down lmb and auto kill everything
The some-definition-of-good Diablo2likes are modded Diablo 2 (my pick would be Path of Diablo), Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, Diablo 3, and Path of Exile.
On the net, I think Grim Dawn is the strongest, and it happens to share the virtue of good atmosphere with D2, although if the developers manage to finish the game fully without ruining the extant level of quality, I expect Last Epoch to overtake it.
Diablo 3 might have offensive story, mediocre atmosphere (overall, but especially compared to D2 which is outstanding), and awful progression mechanics way way way way way way way way way too centered around bonuses provided by legendaries and sets, as well as even fresh seasonal characters running out of meaningful character-progression after mere 20 or so hours played (you already have a full set of BiS legendaries, gems leveled as far as you can push, etc, and now it's only a matter of grinding for marginally better-rolled versions and levels-after-levels).
But it has by far the best-feeling combat among Diablo2likes, which, seeing as that this is what you're doing almost every moment of playing the game, is a Huge Fricking Deal. The problems mean D3 is unsuited for "serious" long-term play, but it's """good""" for playing enough to finish the season journey every now and then, because the core gameplay is fun, even if the surrounding systems are not.
>Diablo 3 feels really good and doesn't require the supreme autism that PoE requires >but endgame is LITERALLY JUST RUNNING RIFTS
Such a fricking waste, literally all diablo 4 has to do is have actual endgame content, but it's probably not going to have that shit considering all development is going into shitty battlepasses and microtransactions.
It's good though it feels slow and sluggish, almost outdated. Some people like that, but after having playing PoE and D3 for hundreds of hours, i don't enjoy slow loot slashers.
>PoE
It's easily the best diabloclone, but the endgame is lame. Performance is bad. Getting to maps is tedious. They force you to play the campaign everytime you reroll. I know D2 was the same but it's 2023. Putting outdated mechanics into a game for the sake of "authentic experiences" is elitist, nerdy and moronic. D3 did it the best.
The other clones aren't even worth mentioning as they are mostly bad.
I have no idea how people put up with redoing the campaign in PoE every season. Adventure Mode in D3 is such a huge improvement to the seasonal experience, and then they frick it all up with infinite paragon levels and set bonuses being the only things that matter.
>Meh Tier
Torchlight 2
Depths of Peril
Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 & 2
Victor Vran
R.A.W. Realms of Ancient War
Champions of Norrath & Return to Arms
Dungeon Siege 3
>Yawwwnn Tier
Grim Dawn
>Shit tier
Diablo 3
Torchlight 1
Path of Exile
Sacred 2
Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem
Shadows: Heretic Kingdoms
Din's Curse
The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing
>What is the best Diablo clone?
They are literally ALL shit. Diablo 2 and especially the way it became after 1.10 poisoned the entire genre in it's wake, not even exaggerating.
>Path of Autism
Shit >Grim Yawn
Shit, the fans go on about how different and superior it is to PoE but the way the actual gameplay and itemization is in practice it's basically just a jankier PoE >Everything made by Blizzshit
Shit >Diablo 2 mods like (Below) Median (IQ)
Shit >bunch of random names nobody cares about
Shit all of them
Not him but GD is the path of exile kind of bullshit game.
>in D1 you're basically always in danger unless you're considerably overpowered compared to the zone you're in >in GD you're steamrolling 99% of the time with your brain turned off, and then you randomly die when you run into an elite/boss that spams namelocking fist of heavens from offscreen or does an uniterruptable namelocking homing stunning charge attack into an aoe stunning shockwave and then it's adds do the same thing 5 times in a row
So the "yawn" wasn't about the gamespeed -or lack thereof? In that regard i would totally agree. If only a modern D1 would exist...an ARPG where you need to use your brain, strategize smartly and use items wisely. Modern ARPGs are all literally zoomer games. Zoom around, collect items. rinse and repeat.
>in GD you're steamrolling 99% of the time with your brain turned off, and then you randomly die when you run into an elite/boss that spams namelocking fist of heavens from offscreen or does an uniterruptable namelocking homing stunning charge attack into an aoe stunning shockwave and then it's adds do the same thing 5 times in a row
Happened to me. I cleared the first act with no issue, even the final warden. Than I arrived at the bandit camp and some elite dude deleted my health in a second. Deleted the game afterwards.
Buggy peice of shit, because the bug patches was a part of of their anti pirate scheme back then.
The developers knew the pirate scene would only crack the initial game, and then crack 1 or 2 patches since this was a small scale game.
So the developers deliberately released the game in broken state. Every patch was also broken.
When they confirmed the pirates had lost interest, they would release a patch that fixed the most egregious problems.
And that version had no piracy cracks, so pirategays couldn't even play online.
It was a very petty form of anti piracy, but it worked.
The fact you dared to include Dungeon Siege 3 on this list cements this as bait. You and your lineage are cursed forever more. Never return to this locale again.
>What is the best Diablo clone?
They are literally ALL shit. Diablo 2 and especially the way it became after 1.10 poisoned the entire genre in it's wake, not even exaggerating.
>Path of Autism
Shit >Grim Yawn
Shit, the fans go on about how different and superior it is to PoE but the way the actual gameplay and itemization is in practice it's basically just a jankier PoE >Everything made by Blizzshit
Shit >Diablo 2 mods like (Below) Median (IQ)
Shit >bunch of random names nobody cares about
Shit all of them
Yes. synergies completely broke the balance of first time typical playthroughs from mid normal through nightmare and the game turns from a finely tuned challenge to a complete joke the second you hit your 24 or 30 level skill point. Idk if synergies make for better endgame but you can't just retroactively gut a core single player experience like that.
It doesn't need to be a hardcore game but there is a fine spectrum between carefully taking out enemies with good positioning versus watching entire screen worth of monsters disappear with one click.
1 year ago
Anonymous
What the hell are you talking about?
Starting with Nightmare you get blasted by archers and mages from outside the screen. That's why you need mobility items and teleport at that point.
as a singleplayer game purely this is the best choice ive played them all. PoE has some good things but overall feels too different. Those are top 2 if you want similar atmosphere and gameplay
Recently bought D2 and I honestly don't get it. When I stumbled over D3 years after its release and after the auction house debacle was already resolved I played it for 48 hours straight.
Why didnt the same happen with D2?
Recently bought Pong and I honestly don't get it. When I stumbled over Asteroids years after its release and after the Atari debacle was already resolved I played it for 48 hours straight.
Why didnt the same happen with Pong?
Diablo 2 is a lot slower early on especially if you don't know what you are doing. It's not as bad as going in blind into PoE but it's definitely not easy.
Diablo 3 you can kinda just pick up and start slaughtering shit right away and get free bis gear from the seasonal shit that will literally carry you to torment 16
Back in the day it was beyond mindblowing and it was further elevated by being a phenomenon, basically everyone was playing it. You could be talking about it with your friends in the school cafeteria line and some random kid from some other class would interject about how many windforces he has on bnet.
It has really good atmosphere and music, it actually has pretty good combat-feel thanks to solid SFX and pace of combat hitting the sweet spot in that it's pretty fast-paced but at the same time you aren't murdering entire screens of enemies from skills being passively procced from your mere presence (which I think makes for awful combat because there's little feedback to your input), it has good "first-playthrough" balance in that the blind playthrough difficulty feels respectable as opposed to the "real game" starting in endgame progression modes as is the case in many contemporary ARPGs, there is something to "basic" progression mechanics as opposed to convoluted systems almost for the sake of convolution as seen in games like POE, or the game being effectively unplayable without loot filter (although D2 really benefits from one as well), and so on. So it's hardly without merits in 2022.
But when people tend to say "good", they usually don't mean "the game I would pick right now if I was forced to pick one game from this selection and play it for a couple of dozen hours", but some mix of that (probably the biggest thing, ultimately), but also ephemeral quality of how it was like to play the game back in the day, its influence, giving credit for trying to be something even if it's not entirely successful, and perhaps a disproportionate weight put onto "artistic merits" (like atmosphere) and lower weight to things like raw practicality.
Yes, it looks jank as frick when you go into the shitty looking menu but then you realize that it has a lot of charm, content and secrets hidden behind It all
Frick.. is this why I was so addicted to vampire Survivors? They need to improve on the formula more though, it was a good proof of concept, make it better now.
Someone posted a webm of a Diablo clone they were making in an ARPG thread a while ago, anyone remember what it was called or know what I'm talking about?
I have my boxed copy right next to me, bought and played near release (after finishing D2)
There were 2 kinds of boxes, red and green. I don't think I ever saw another red one
chronicon >can reroll individual enchantments >can respec skill points anytime >movement skills aren't just for zoomzoom clear map, movement is actually pretty useful against hard hitting endgame monsters >unique/legendary enchantments are really creative >sets don't take up every equip slot >can turn unique/legendary items into runes and put their unique effects onto other items
How the frick do people stomach playing PoE without trading?
How is is that neither blizzard nor any other RPG or ARPG this past 23 years has been able to replicate Diablo 2s loot system ?
It is the most effective loot dopamine cycle ever put into a game. I am 30 and iv been playing diablo 2 on and off since I was 10, and it's never gotten old
Because the drop rate for rare or better stuff is in the sweet spot where its uncommon, but frequently enough that your encouraged to grind and keep an eye out and it doesn't feel like a chore
Runes being the exception
How is is that neither blizzard nor any other RPG or ARPG this past 23 years has been able to replicate Diablo 2s loot system ?
It is the most effective loot dopamine cycle ever put into a game. I am 30 and iv been playing diablo 2 on and off since I was 10, and it's never gotten old
>attempt at real-money-auction-house. >leveling experience is trash. >real game doesnt start until end-game
"darkness" in the game is more reds and blues instead of staunch blacks, creating what seems to be a less "gritty" game. >removal of skill trees and points >red/green arrows showing gear "upgrades" dumbs the game down, also the indicator becomes irrelevant late game as it doesn't consider elemental damage
I like the game but it has glaring flaws and was obviously made with a broader audience in mind instead of just D2gays
What exactly makes these games fun? I've tried a bunch of Diablo-likes and all you seem to do in them is run around like a headless chicken clicking on things until they die then clicking on items to fill your inventory, go sell them and do it again.
I assume they're just not for me but I can't fathom what exactly makes it so fun for others.
Not him but it's really not the combat in a vacuum but more a combination of the procedural generation elements: you get a rush when you see a rare mob with tough mods show up, especially if you play hardcore modes which erase your character if you die. You only have a second to make a decision: run or fight? If you win you might get some awesome gear, but if you lose, your character's all gone.
The planning that gets into your build and the semi-unique way your build plays out given the gear you managed to acquire makes it rewarding to see the skills play out, although that's not the gameplay per se if you get what I mean.
When well executed, the risk vs reward dynamics in those games are "the attraction of the combat".
Apart from music which is ageless and graphics which were remastered, the gameplay aged like milk. Garbage itemization and trash skill balance. I don't think that there currently is actually good hack and slash game. Every single game has it's problems be it monetization, bloat of mechanics that don't do shit or uninteresting world. Personally I'm curious of how Dungeon Siege 1+2 would be improved or made worse if remaster would ever happen.
>a handful of extremely good items are sought out by everyone while everything else is considered filler >bnet meta ended up revolving around a handful of bugged items that only dropped for a week twenty years ago >good itemization
Best itemization = every class wearing the exact same items with maybe 2 exceptions. You couldn't be more braindead even if you shot yourself in the head.
"End game" itemization isn't what people talk about regarding DII being good - the initial fresh character you build and what you use for the first time leveling up is done incredibly well. Yes, it all gets forgotten once you are swimming in sets / uniques / etc but it is still important to have the itemization be good for fresh / new characters or players. You have lots of options for each class and you have a steady influx of small improvements if you pay attention.
If endgame itemization isn't what people are jerking themselves off to, then fresh game/starter items don't stand out that much from the rest of the games people talk in this thread.
considering everything is dogturd stat-sticks now? lolno homosexual
1 year ago
Anonymous
What are you even talking about, every game is about increasing stats and getting as much statsticks as possible, even D2. What next, will you try to gas me how +skill items aren't stasticks and you don't care getting them on Sorceress for example? Even in early game? Like Spirit or Lore? You are so full of shit that your ass is probably working 24/7.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Dumbest zoomer itt
1 year ago
Anonymous
What a surprise, no argument.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Concessions accepted.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Really? You are gassing yourself that you've won? Anons like you never fail to make me laugh, thanks!
1 year ago
Anonymous
Whatever helps you sleep at night, zoomer.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Is the second person in your head talking to the first?
So what is the best way in 2023 to play Diablo II?
I tried original version with ProjectD2, BaseMod, PlugY and d2dx, took me a long time to install all that and be in a working state. But then after 2 minutes in game I already notice some annoying bug like buggy stash and closed it.
I prefer my game to be offline and drm free so that I can play them when I want. There is no way to make the new version drm free.
PlugY is the best. The only changes it makes are allowing Battle Net runewords / crafting offline and a (nearly) infinite storage. Those are really the only two things you need for single player.
Doesn't mod like project diablo 2 or path of diablo as
In my opinion, Path of Diablo
mentioned add lot of QoL changes? QoL is mostly what I want.
Yes. Increased stash space, charm inventory, improved character sheet, transferring items with modifier+click, loot filters, ladder-items in SP, that sort of thing
PlugY is the best. The only changes it makes are allowing Battle Net runewords / crafting offline and a (nearly) infinite storage. Those are really the only two things you need for single player.
Because most diabe-girlkes focus on being like diablo without understanding diablo's own roots (it is a realtime roguelike). As a result, they diverge from diablo characteristics, which themselves are already divergent from roguelikes. This is the wrong approach. The correct approach is to understand the source material, understand the source of divergences, and figure out different or altered divergences that achieve either a different goal (as set by the project goals) or the same goal but better.
It's basically their drm which hurts people who play offline. If you don't go online for a certain amount of time you lose your ability to play offline
cookie clicker
Tri Quarterly Reminder: Diablo 2 community was the cancer that introduced mass appeal microtransactions.
So much money traded over fake items so long ago that every company on earth adopted it, and diablo 3 was created around the real money market idea, so much so that you can still see the affects it had on items today.
Diablo 2 will ALWAYS be the most cancerous game, and community ever created.
What's a good game in the genre for a beginner? I've tried PoE, Lost Ark and Inquisitor, but they bombard you with skill trees, mechanics, small inventories, etc. The easiest one I've played is Grim Dawn because it doesn't have all of that.
>finding items for your build >season literally hands you your full set for free >gambling is cheap as frick >every single resource you need is provided by just spamming rifts
I like how Diablo 3 doesn't require me to go full guidegay to enjoy it, but jesus christ they went way too hard in the other direction. What's the point of "builds" when everything just revolves around a set effect that gives one of your skills a 2000x damage multiplier
Even that 1% is better than what diablo offers or most other games really. Not to mention that is just passive skill tree, and you have active skill gems on top which adds quite a variety as well
You dont need meta 100% optimized internet builds for poe unless you go end game and want to have autistic clear rates. Just pick the skills you enjoy and build around that
If you can stomach the hardcoded lowrez Sacred Gold is great. Divine Divinity is also great provided you don't use freeze weaps because then it becomes trivial.
I wish games copied it, and not just top down games but an elden ring/skyrim, etc summoners. Skelleton armies that follow the main character, or zombies or animals, soldiers, anything.
It's the only one that lets him be BASED, despite like half of the class being nonfunctional due to the synergy patch tweaking enemy hp to the stratosphere. >permanent duration skeletons and golem >like a lot of skeletons >extremely powerful debuffs with minimal point investment >corpse explosion without any gay shit or damage scaling on stats or point investment or anything >doesn't have to jump through a million hoops to synergize his build with buffs and auras and rare specific unique items etc.
I like my Druid summoner I've made in 1st season but Jesus Christ minions pathfinding was horseshit, I don't understand why Vicarious Visions simply won't improve it.
Yeah, I'm playing one right now and half of my wolves just stand around licking their asses while my merc gets merc'd and my Spirit evaporates. Shit's annoying.
Which merc are you using? Personally I was using act 3 for the Enchant he casts on summons but tried to switch it for Rogue with Faith later but never did it after I cleared Uber Tristram.
He does but because of the way mercenary AI works he starts doing it only during a big fights, becasue mercs don't cast spells while idle/not fighting.
https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2020/8/2/21348946/phantasy-star-online-director-diablo-cut-features-christmas-nights
Are you denying PSO is inspired by Diablo?
>Some people like Setsumasa stayed around until 10 or 11 p.m. at night after people left the office. He would connect Diablo to the network and play until morning, wake up to work, and then play again. Some of us weren’t going home much at the time. Some people would go home just to bathe, sleep a few hours, come back into the office to work, and then play Diablo at the office. It was mostly in the name of research, though. There are a number of games that we used as inspiration. Diablo was obviously one of them. I had heard that Dragon Quest was inspired by remaking Ultima with a Japanese audience in mind. So our concept was, “Let’s make a Diablo game that would appeal to the Japanese audience.”
https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2020/8/2/21348946/phantasy-star-online-director-diablo-cut-features-christmas-nights
Are you denying PSO is inspired by Diablo?
I miss single player PS games and PSO. Those were amazing games. Granted, PSU, PSP games and PS0 were cool too but there nothing quite like the Master System and mega drive games, and PSO
1 year ago
Anonymous
>See a gap in the market >too lazy to capitalize on it
why is making games so hard
D2 Hammerdin has set pack the Paladin archetype in every Hack and Slash that came after it. Everyone keeps chasing the Hammerdin build.
Last Epoch gutted their unique paladin trees in an effort to chase Enigma teleporting Hammerdins.
I'm probably the only one who likes Diablo 2 more than the other in the genre because of its aesthetic.
Shit looks pretty creepy when I was young. Other games feel pretty lackluster in that regard.
Good idea, I guess I'll start doing that. Before I was collecting perfect gems to trade with, but now I have basically everything I want. It's probably time to make a new character even, feels like there's not much left to shoot for beside leveling otherwise.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I do the same with runes as well and every ladder usually end up with 3 decently leveled characters and 1 or 2 of them end up as mules in the end
I hope person responsible for putting gems in runes recipes will go to hell and all he does as penance is to have infinite amount of rune "Thul", farm chipped topazes and every time he mutes an "Amn" the devil that fricks him in the ass takes a break for 1 minute.
1 year ago
Anonymous
yeah it is kind of annoying. I also wish they didn't stop with those craftable item recipes
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's just one of the fricking moronic things they did because "NOOO MUH HECKING BOTTERINOS NOT THE CHINK FARMERINOS" and fricked legit players in the ass. My personal favorite "frick you" is how they implemented xp gain minimum levels that literally force you to stop to farm during Normal or you'll be too low level, fall off the curve and stop gaining xp.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the xp restrictions are moronic too but at least you can optimize the farm.
thats how poe gets money, people buying big ass chests and dumping everything there while saying "i will organize later" then never organizing but buying more stashes.
I hate it but I always forgive Blizzard North for making it that way as it is the only Act where I actually see "new" layouts from time to time. I had a really crazy one last year which was basically a huge infinity symbol with the interconnected areas.
My "favourite" one was an absolute nightmare maze while playing online >can't find objectives >can't find waypoints >great marsh was a dead end that I explored completely >finally find flayer jungle >getting exhausted and ready to stop playing d2 for the day >finally atleast find flayer jungle waypoint >the zone changes to great marsh on the last stretch before the waypoint >oh god no >great marsh waypoint in flayer jungle when there wasn't even a connection from great marsh to flayer jungle
Yeah, the Act 3 generation was allowed to get really funky. It is extremely rare but you can even get layouts that don't generate waypoints at all - at least none that you can get to as they are in their own disconnected circle. I have never seen that happen to a dungeon entrance though.
I hate it but I always forgive Blizzard North for making it that way as it is the only Act where I actually see "new" layouts from time to time. I had a really crazy one last year which was basically a huge infinity symbol with the interconnected areas.
There was a few times where I couldn't find wtf the flyer jungle was, but I got to kurast, so I would end up working backwards from the bazaar unti I found it
Been playing this game half my life and act 3 is still a pain in the ass to navigate
>29 >half my life >been playing D2 (and D2R now) on and off every 1-2 years since I was 9 >dump 200-300 hours in , burn out and quit >eventually get an itch to play again >rinse and repeat every year or so >because of D2R extending D2s lifespan even further , it's likely my own son will end up playing D2 for the first time when he is that same age
Nothing wrong with this. Summertime is DII time for me. I have been playing new / different builds for over 20 years. Yes, I'm getting into the really damn niche ones these days but its still fun.
Partly because the game isn't afraid to let you become brokenly overpowerd if you know what your doing, which itself requires work and game know-how, which itself can be rewarding
Especially if your a necromancer/paladin/sorc
If you haven't done it yet, consider getting plugy and doing a holy grail, as in, collect every unique and set items in the game. It has an infinite stash, allows you to do the ubers and dclone, and you can use e-girl maphack to filter items and get a warning message when something good drops. It may sound like shit but it's a really nice QoL upgrade when you're playing on /players 8 and drop tons of stuff that overlaps and can hide that precious Ber rune.
Otherwise :
- Titan Quest is great
- Dungeon Siege 1 is great, haven't played the rest
- Torchlight 1 & 2 are great
- Diablo 3 is... Enjoyable to play a season once in a while ? But that's not really worth the price.
- PoE is flawed, but can be really nice. I mostly hate the fact that a lot of content is exclusive to a seasonal system that forces you to play during specific times and then dumps your character (items included) in the "no content" mode once the season ends. And you have to start over next season. And whenever you feel like playing the game, there's a good chance it will be more than halfway through a season and thus you know if you create a new character he'll be doomed soon. Oh and 98% of builds are too weak and you'll have to follow one online if you want to be efficient.
>If you haven't done it yet, consider getting plugy and doing a holy grail, as in, collect every unique and set items in the game. It has an infinite stash, allows you to do the ubers and dclone, and you can use e-girl maphack to filter items and get a warning message when something good drops. It may sound like shit but it's a really nice QoL upgrade when you're playing on /players 8 and drop tons of stuff that overlaps and can hide that precious Ber rune.
what you have described is basically just committing suicide except really slow. rejecting any experience of value in the world because it might be hard, to sit there and solo click on diablo for a million hours like cookie clicker
as someone who just had a serious health scare at 40, don't do this, your life is more valuable than this
If Diablo 4 has the loot of 2, the gamefeel of 3 and the endgame content of PoE it would be the perfect game.
Sadly it's already corrupted by fricking microtransactions and battlepasses
Is it even possible for zoomers to get into D2/D2R , im pretty sure 80% of the player base are the same people who have been playing it for nearly 25 years
>D4 forgotten in a month >D2 outlives D4, a game relased two and a half decades later >still has a strong player base
Does D2 have the longest legs of any game ever made
Starcraft 1 Brood War has tens of thousands of Koreans online at the same time. Outside of Korea however barely 1k. Warcraft 3 is still (by dead rts genre standards) strong, especially in China and Eastern Europe. Good Blizzard era of games.
cant talk for that guy but no one cares about everquest outside project 99 which is so tedious it takes years to max. and im a fricking neet and even i dont wanna spend ALL that time
Lineage 2 too, I always wondered about this. Who the frick keep playing those games. How are those companies are still alive? Do they really generate enough revenue to keep afloat. So many questions.
I'm the anon that asked for what the best way to play d2 in 2023.
I have found this project: https://github.com/whipowill/d2-plugy-qol
It look quite nice including qol stuff and easy to install, I think I will try it.
The closest I got in feeling to it was the first Torchlight. Other than that what the other anons have said - the genre is stagnant as hell. PoE is still your best bet, though it dials the complexity up to 11 and the recent expansions have made it very twitchy and, imo, much less fun than before.
Diablo 3 is and im tired of pretending 2 is better.
Firstly, movement and combat is simply the best of any ARPG. Its smooth and extremely responsive. Secondly skills actually look and feel great to use, whereas in most ARPGs you're either totally passive (TQ, PoE) or feels very dated (D2) only D1 feels as satisfying and thats only for magic casting. Finally and most importantly D3 got it right with legendaries giving massive power boosts and being able to equip 3 on any character including new ones makes replays/new characters way more fun than other games.
It too way too fricking long to get here, and D4 will probably fail hard to learn any lessons, but you have to be mentally stunted or totally rose tinted to think D2 is still the best game in the genre.
D3 feels way way better than D2 and adventure mode is a godsend for replaying, but it is also a downgrade in so many other ways >aesthetics just are way worse, especially now that resurrected is out and blows D3 out of the water >loot is terrible, class sets having such busted effects means they are the only thing you care about, you only care about getting an ancient/primal version of gear you already have but it doesn't really make that much of a difference >endgame is literally just doing rifts over and over again, just so you can up the difficulty and do more rifts >paragon infinite leveling just means you don't have to put any effort or thought into become stronger, just keep dumping into your main stat and become a god since your main stat dictates both your damage output and damage resistance
Apart from aesthetics though those issues are very late game, the leveling and early max level content is the most enjoyable by a long shot. Its this mindless shilling of D2 being perfect thats just stupid, its incredibly dated now.
>very late game >literally happens the moment you reach level 70 and they basically just hand out your full class set for free after looking at the seasonal checklist
Also the shitty difficulty system means you never have a good balance while playing through the campaign and leveling either, and Torment 1 through 9 literally don't have a reason to exist due to how strong the class set makes you. Don't even get me started on how the class sets completely restrict build creativity either
I still have fun with Diablo 3 but it has so many fricking issues that I can't see myself playing it often, but it's definitely fun enough to pick up occasionally. Basically Diablo 3 is the kind ARPG you pick up and play a bit of when I don't feel like spending too much time investing in PoE while still getting that itch scratched since it requires no brain energy to start clearing rifts.
Infinite paragon levels is probably the worst mechanic implemented in D3, it makes the game much worse even compared to gear with numbers doubled every season by that 1 employee that still maintains this game.
none, stick to that relic and stop shitting games that actually could be good if not for bunch of buttholes like you wanting and not being able to relive their youth and their input.
just keep playing diablo 2 and keep your copeinions to yourself. No game ever will make you 12 and rmt'ing hr's on third party webside again.
nah, it's nothing like D3. >3 difficulty tiers like D2 >build-your-own-class with items >enchantments on items allow for sub+classes >isn't GAS GAS GAS like D3 >no mandatory teleport spell like D2 >not hunting for *insert best runeword here* or *insert best set piece here*
I'm making a Buddhist Diablo-like. Just uploaded my first demo. It's free on itch and I could really use some playtesters. Please check it out if you're interested.
https://vita-brevis.itch.io/samsara-wheel-of-extinction
ive been playing dark alliance I and II and diablo II a lot lately and imo the they're best were going to get
I enjoyed grim dawn and titan quest and poe a decade ago but feels like nothing will beat them. I really wish there was a modding scene for baldurs gate: dark alliance it'd be amazing
Divine Divinity is great despite the stupid name. Just don't break the game by using freezing weapon which works even on end boss and you will be fine or do it for fun. Also playing ranged character is a good idea.
>kill monsters to get exp and loot >use exp and loot to kill monsters better >repeat ad nauseam >favorite game
That's some shit taste you got there anon, but to answer your question, pretty much any game in the genre will do, since they're all about doing the same shit over and over. Just play WoW, it will suit you fine.
It's not simply about the gameplay anon. Immersion via the OST, sound effects, visual atmosphere and the like add flavor to hack n' slash titles like these.
There is none.
A lot of them are fun and have unique qualities but none of them are better than D2.
>Titanquest
Fun, but less freedom as D2.
>PoE
Very satisfying to play, developers are moronic, 90% of the talent tree nodes are useless, and it feels like 75% of the player base are just people role playing as stockbrockers
>Last Epoch
Was bought out by Tencent.
Developers over promise and under deliver.
Game has been in Early access for 4 years
Still no multiplayer
Class talents/skills can be changed a whim; players are not refunded or offer respecs.
What about torchlight?
No depth, but mindless fun
>Titanquest
After playing Grim Dawn, I have no desire in playing TQ.
Same. TQ is fine, and has some charm, but i don't want to ever go back from the quality GD provides (now if only they fix fricking crafting).
Yeah but GD doesn't have an interesting setting.
At least with TQ you have all that mythology shit which is pretty neat.
I really like TQ, I know that GD is mechanically superior but something still draws me to that game.
>Was bought out by Tencent.
>Developers over promise and under deliver.
Damn, and I was looking forward to the game.
I want TQ's setting with all of GD's improvements.
I mean, you could probably port a good bunch of it, same engine, and I know some mods like Reign of Terror used TQ assets in really novel ways
To be perfectly honest, it was obvious as soon as it launched in steam that LE was going to be bad. There was some good ideas here and there but the execution was god awful.
>Class talents/skills can be changed a whim; players are not refunded or offer respecs.
Got into LE 3 years ago, made a DW Rive Void Knight, decided to reinstall. Talents/Passive broken, Rive no longer has dual wield synergies with Void Knight (moved to Paladin because Ignite synergies are more prevalent and not a lot of void synergies).
I'm stuck with melee void damage gear, I can't undo a mastery. I can respec but it will cost a frick ton of gold.
New VK knights are afk builds were you just hold down lmb and auto kill everything
Frick Tencent
POE is just better diablo. 90% of diablo trees are just as useless
>90% of the talent tree is useless
That's why skill points from levels are the biggest increase in power your character gets end game, eh?
>Titanquest
>less freedom as D2.
Have you ever played Titanquest?
What about Grim Dawn?
>Very satisfying to play
Not anymore, I went back to D2 as of late because the game is so shit now
The some-definition-of-good Diablo2likes are modded Diablo 2 (my pick would be Path of Diablo), Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, Diablo 3, and Path of Exile.
On the net, I think Grim Dawn is the strongest, and it happens to share the virtue of good atmosphere with D2, although if the developers manage to finish the game fully without ruining the extant level of quality, I expect Last Epoch to overtake it.
>Diablo 3
Opinion discarded
Diablo 3 might have offensive story, mediocre atmosphere (overall, but especially compared to D2 which is outstanding), and awful progression mechanics way way way way way way way way way too centered around bonuses provided by legendaries and sets, as well as even fresh seasonal characters running out of meaningful character-progression after mere 20 or so hours played (you already have a full set of BiS legendaries, gems leveled as far as you can push, etc, and now it's only a matter of grinding for marginally better-rolled versions and levels-after-levels).
But it has by far the best-feeling combat among Diablo2likes, which, seeing as that this is what you're doing almost every moment of playing the game, is a Huge Fricking Deal. The problems mean D3 is unsuited for "serious" long-term play, but it's """good""" for playing enough to finish the season journey every now and then, because the core gameplay is fun, even if the surrounding systems are not.
>Diablo 3 feels really good and doesn't require the supreme autism that PoE requires
>but endgame is LITERALLY JUST RUNNING RIFTS
Such a fricking waste, literally all diablo 4 has to do is have actual endgame content, but it's probably not going to have that shit considering all development is going into shitty battlepasses and microtransactions.
This. Give me the combat of 3 with the actual itemization / builds of 2.
Torchlight 2 (with mods)
>Ganker defends d3 now
oh god
after all the patches and emulating a console version to avoid the actiblizz spyware it's a perfectly average game.
It was only made worse since it launched though
Sacred.
>Grim Dawn
It's good though it feels slow and sluggish, almost outdated. Some people like that, but after having playing PoE and D3 for hundreds of hours, i don't enjoy slow loot slashers.
>PoE
It's easily the best diabloclone, but the endgame is lame. Performance is bad. Getting to maps is tedious. They force you to play the campaign everytime you reroll. I know D2 was the same but it's 2023. Putting outdated mechanics into a game for the sake of "authentic experiences" is elitist, nerdy and moronic. D3 did it the best.
The other clones aren't even worth mentioning as they are mostly bad.
>The other clones aren't even worth mentioning as they are mostly bad.
What about the acventures of van helsing?
I have no idea how people put up with redoing the campaign in PoE every season. Adventure Mode in D3 is such a huge improvement to the seasonal experience, and then they frick it all up with infinite paragon levels and set bonuses being the only things that matter.
>What is the best Diablo clone?
path of exile if you like going fast and endless replayability
grim dawn if you want a more modern d2
>God Tier
Diablo 1 & 2
Sacred
>Good Tier
Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
Titan Quest
>Meh Tier
Torchlight 2
Depths of Peril
Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 & 2
Victor Vran
R.A.W. Realms of Ancient War
Champions of Norrath & Return to Arms
Dungeon Siege 3
>Yawwwnn Tier
Grim Dawn
>Shit tier
Diablo 3
Torchlight 1
Path of Exile
Sacred 2
Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem
Shadows: Heretic Kingdoms
Din's Curse
The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing
Forgetting someone?
My man. It may not have much depth, but it is comfy af.
It's a shame nothing more was done with this.
Both of the expansions are tragically bad.
I do remember at some point the best way to strengthen your equipment became a combination of fishing and throwing gold into enchantment.
Diablo 1 is wayyyyyy slower than Grim Dawn, and you call GD yawwn tier? lol
Yeah, i know D1 was genre-defining, but for today's standards it's abysmal and outdated as frick.
zoomzoom
tardtard
>i don't enjoy old outdated games as their mechanics are archaic
>therefore i must be a zoomer
Nice logic.
you've proven to be a zoomgay so the logic is correct
there is literally no reason to play diablo 1 other than >hurr i'm so cool and original!
Not him but GD is the path of exile kind of bullshit game.
>in D1 you're basically always in danger unless you're considerably overpowered compared to the zone you're in
>in GD you're steamrolling 99% of the time with your brain turned off, and then you randomly die when you run into an elite/boss that spams namelocking fist of heavens from offscreen or does an uniterruptable namelocking homing stunning charge attack into an aoe stunning shockwave and then it's adds do the same thing 5 times in a row
So the "yawn" wasn't about the gamespeed -or lack thereof? In that regard i would totally agree. If only a modern D1 would exist...an ARPG where you need to use your brain, strategize smartly and use items wisely. Modern ARPGs are all literally zoomer games. Zoom around, collect items. rinse and repeat.
Why would it ever be about gamespeed you dumb zoomer? It's always about fun[/spoierl]
>in GD you're steamrolling 99% of the time with your brain turned off, and then you randomly die when you run into an elite/boss that spams namelocking fist of heavens from offscreen or does an uniterruptable namelocking homing stunning charge attack into an aoe stunning shockwave and then it's adds do the same thing 5 times in a row
Happened to me. I cleared the first act with no issue, even the final warden. Than I arrived at the bandit camp and some elite dude deleted my health in a second. Deleted the game afterwards.
sell me on sacred
Buggy peice of shit, because the bug patches was a part of of their anti pirate scheme back then.
The developers knew the pirate scene would only crack the initial game, and then crack 1 or 2 patches since this was a small scale game.
So the developers deliberately released the game in broken state. Every patch was also broken.
When they confirmed the pirates had lost interest, they would release a patch that fixed the most egregious problems.
And that version had no piracy cracks, so pirategays couldn't even play online.
It was a very petty form of anti piracy, but it worked.
>Buggy peice of shit
This and probably the worst designed skill system ever devised are why I never even looked at the sequels.
The fact you dared to include Dungeon Siege 3 on this list cements this as bait. You and your lineage are cursed forever more. Never return to this locale again.
>no Hellgate London
>Revenant
>Darkstone
>Throne of Darkness
>Nox
>Divine Divinity
>Harbinger
Nox is fricking great, but it's more of a traditional single player RPG with ARPG controls IMO.
sacred is a stupid pile of shit, it looks shit, it plays clunky, it has a horrible loot system and it has the worst skill system of any arpg
>What is the best Diablo clone?
They are literally ALL shit. Diablo 2 and especially the way it became after 1.10 poisoned the entire genre in it's wake, not even exaggerating.
>Path of Autism
Shit
>Grim Yawn
Shit, the fans go on about how different and superior it is to PoE but the way the actual gameplay and itemization is in practice it's basically just a jankier PoE
>Everything made by Blizzshit
Shit
>Diablo 2 mods like (Below) Median (IQ)
Shit
>bunch of random names nobody cares about
Shit all of them
>Do I fit in yet?
I'm glad someone else realizes how shit 1.10 was.
What's the problem, synergies?
Yes. synergies completely broke the balance of first time typical playthroughs from mid normal through nightmare and the game turns from a finely tuned challenge to a complete joke the second you hit your 24 or 30 level skill point. Idk if synergies make for better endgame but you can't just retroactively gut a core single player experience like that.
It’s a point and click ARPG. How do you even make a game like this “challenging”?
It doesn't need to be a hardcore game but there is a fine spectrum between carefully taking out enemies with good positioning versus watching entire screen worth of monsters disappear with one click.
What the hell are you talking about?
Starting with Nightmare you get blasted by archers and mages from outside the screen. That's why you need mobility items and teleport at that point.
the only thing that anon said that was true. I was a never big onliner and have my discs but damn some of the build nerfs were fricked
Most people here are healthy pessimists, but you are a moronic cynical butthole.
>Diablo 2 mods like (Below) Median (IQ)
>shit
Yup.
Divine Divinity and Nox were decent
unironically only thing close to d2 are d2 mods
Grim Dawn is closest gameplay wise
as a singleplayer game purely this is the best choice ive played them all. PoE has some good things but overall feels too different. Those are top 2 if you want similar atmosphere and gameplay
Recently bought D2 and I honestly don't get it. When I stumbled over D3 years after its release and after the auction house debacle was already resolved I played it for 48 hours straight.
Why didnt the same happen with D2?
zoomer adhd mentality
Recently bought Pong and I honestly don't get it. When I stumbled over Asteroids years after its release and after the Atari debacle was already resolved I played it for 48 hours straight.
Why didnt the same happen with Pong?
Diablo 2 is a lot slower early on especially if you don't know what you are doing. It's not as bad as going in blind into PoE but it's definitely not easy.
Diablo 3 you can kinda just pick up and start slaughtering shit right away and get free bis gear from the seasonal shit that will literally carry you to torment 16
Back in the day it was beyond mindblowing and it was further elevated by being a phenomenon, basically everyone was playing it. You could be talking about it with your friends in the school cafeteria line and some random kid from some other class would interject about how many windforces he has on bnet.
It has really good atmosphere and music, it actually has pretty good combat-feel thanks to solid SFX and pace of combat hitting the sweet spot in that it's pretty fast-paced but at the same time you aren't murdering entire screens of enemies from skills being passively procced from your mere presence (which I think makes for awful combat because there's little feedback to your input), it has good "first-playthrough" balance in that the blind playthrough difficulty feels respectable as opposed to the "real game" starting in endgame progression modes as is the case in many contemporary ARPGs, there is something to "basic" progression mechanics as opposed to convoluted systems almost for the sake of convolution as seen in games like POE, or the game being effectively unplayable without loot filter (although D2 really benefits from one as well), and so on. So it's hardly without merits in 2022.
But when people tend to say "good", they usually don't mean "the game I would pick right now if I was forced to pick one game from this selection and play it for a couple of dozen hours", but some mix of that (probably the biggest thing, ultimately), but also ephemeral quality of how it was like to play the game back in the day, its influence, giving credit for trying to be something even if it's not entirely successful, and perhaps a disproportionate weight put onto "artistic merits" (like atmosphere) and lower weight to things like raw practicality.
Good post
Vampire Survivors is the natural evolution of the ARPG
You know what? You're not wrong.
Does it have any soul or is it just a barebones dopamine exploit?
just a barebones dopamine exploit
Yes, it looks jank as frick when you go into the shitty looking menu but then you realize that it has a lot of charm, content and secrets hidden behind It all
Don't listen to this guy, VSurvivor just turns into a idle game after a couple of hours.
Frick.. is this why I was so addicted to vampire Survivors? They need to improve on the formula more though, it was a good proof of concept, make it better now.
Someone posted a webm of a Diablo clone they were making in an ARPG thread a while ago, anyone remember what it was called or know what I'm talking about?
Grim Dawn if you like the solo grind. PoE if you like playing the merchant/auction house autism.
I still think Throne of Darkness is great but nobody played it because it came out a few months after LoD
I have my boxed copy right next to me, bought and played near release (after finishing D2)
There were 2 kinds of boxes, red and green. I don't think I ever saw another red one
I probably have my booklet in a box somewhere pretty sure it was green too. I remember my best friend and I playing way more pvp in Throne than D2
Sacred 1
chronicon
>can reroll individual enchantments
>can respec skill points anytime
>movement skills aren't just for zoomzoom clear map, movement is actually pretty useful against hard hitting endgame monsters
>unique/legendary enchantments are really creative
>sets don't take up every equip slot
>can turn unique/legendary items into runes and put their unique effects onto other items
poe but only ssf ruthless
How the frick do people stomach playing PoE without trading?
What makes it different from other ARPGs?
Because the drop rate for rare or better stuff is in the sweet spot where its uncommon, but frequently enough that your encouraged to grind and keep an eye out and it doesn't feel like a chore
Runes being the exception
How is is that neither blizzard nor any other RPG or ARPG this past 23 years has been able to replicate Diablo 2s loot system ?
It is the most effective loot dopamine cycle ever put into a game. I am 30 and iv been playing diablo 2 on and off since I was 10, and it's never gotten old
>diablo 2
>click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click
All vidya is clicking or button pressing.
>All vidya is clicking or button pressing.
Sony would disagree with you
They add a few mandatory button presses in their products so they can market them as 'video games.'
>he doesn't click once and hold it to run and attack
you seem to not understand how to play a game correctly
Torchlight 2 is pretty good.
Why does everyone hate D3 so much?
I'm still disappointed that loot 2.0 and 60,000% increased damage sets became a thing.
Also I wish delsere set still gave time bubble damage
D2 gritty bloody good atmosphere
D3 colourful kids game
>attempt at real-money-auction-house.
>leveling experience is trash.
>real game doesnt start until end-game
"darkness" in the game is more reds and blues instead of staunch blacks, creating what seems to be a less "gritty" game.
>removal of skill trees and points
>red/green arrows showing gear "upgrades" dumbs the game down, also the indicator becomes irrelevant late game as it doesn't consider elemental damage
I like the game but it has glaring flaws and was obviously made with a broader audience in mind instead of just D2gays
What exactly makes these games fun? I've tried a bunch of Diablo-likes and all you seem to do in them is run around like a headless chicken clicking on things until they die then clicking on items to fill your inventory, go sell them and do it again.
I assume they're just not for me but I can't fathom what exactly makes it so fun for others.
Combat, putting together and perfecting a build and seeing your character grow, competition on leaderboards
Okay I get the other points, but how is combat fun at all? You click on the thing the thing goes boom, that's it.
Not him but it's really not the combat in a vacuum but more a combination of the procedural generation elements: you get a rush when you see a rare mob with tough mods show up, especially if you play hardcore modes which erase your character if you die. You only have a second to make a decision: run or fight? If you win you might get some awesome gear, but if you lose, your character's all gone.
The planning that gets into your build and the semi-unique way your build plays out given the gear you managed to acquire makes it rewarding to see the skills play out, although that's not the gameplay per se if you get what I mean.
When well executed, the risk vs reward dynamics in those games are "the attraction of the combat".
Character building
Install PlugY. That's it. There is no good clone or pure successor to DII.
Apart from music which is ageless and graphics which were remastered, the gameplay aged like milk. Garbage itemization and trash skill balance. I don't think that there currently is actually good hack and slash game. Every single game has it's problems be it monetization, bloat of mechanics that don't do shit or uninteresting world. Personally I'm curious of how Dungeon Siege 1+2 would be improved or made worse if remaster would ever happen.
D2 has the best itemization of any game of that kind.
0/10 not even trying dumb zoomer.
>a handful of extremely good items are sought out by everyone while everything else is considered filler
>bnet meta ended up revolving around a handful of bugged items that only dropped for a week twenty years ago
>good itemization
Best itemization = every class wearing the exact same items with maybe 2 exceptions. You couldn't be more braindead even if you shot yourself in the head.
"End game" itemization isn't what people talk about regarding DII being good - the initial fresh character you build and what you use for the first time leveling up is done incredibly well. Yes, it all gets forgotten once you are swimming in sets / uniques / etc but it is still important to have the itemization be good for fresh / new characters or players. You have lots of options for each class and you have a steady influx of small improvements if you pay attention.
If endgame itemization isn't what people are jerking themselves off to, then fresh game/starter items don't stand out that much from the rest of the games people talk in this thread.
considering everything is dogturd stat-sticks now? lolno homosexual
What are you even talking about, every game is about increasing stats and getting as much statsticks as possible, even D2. What next, will you try to gas me how +skill items aren't stasticks and you don't care getting them on Sorceress for example? Even in early game? Like Spirit or Lore? You are so full of shit that your ass is probably working 24/7.
Dumbest zoomer itt
What a surprise, no argument.
Concessions accepted.
Really? You are gassing yourself that you've won? Anons like you never fail to make me laugh, thanks!
Whatever helps you sleep at night, zoomer.
Is the second person in your head talking to the first?
Take your meds, schizoomer
Yep it is.
>Garbage itemization
fricking moron
Poe, Path Of Exile
Why are 99% of the games in this genre dark medieval fantasy shit? Why hasn't anyone made a clone that is bright and cheerful?
Torchlight exists. Okay it might not be cheerful but it's certainly brighter.
cheerful and bright games are for anime trannies
Careful with that edge.
>Why hasn't anyone made a clone that is bright and cheerful?
why the frick would you want a whole game of D3's whimsyshire?
What if I want girls that don't look like trannies tho?
then you could just play D3
D3 is great fun and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
it is, but only because the rest of the ARPG genre is completely stagnant
>Voice acting by Azula
Another one of D3s (admittedly quite few) merits is personable player characters and companions.
>personable
If you're a troony zoomer perhaps
who wants to play something really bright in your dark room at 3am
VN players who get to see their reflection on the screen after the main girl marries the MC.
Where's the sci-fi one? That's the real question
There's Warhammer 40K Inquisitor, I guess.
The real question would be why does everything have to be tolkienesque, sci-fi or steampunk
Because no one in Japan, China or Korea has any interest in the genre, otherwise we'd have a Final Fantasy ARPG.
I'd like a final fantasy musou
Literally all of japanese fantasy is tolkien
Was talking specifically about Diablo-clones by the way.
So what is the best way in 2023 to play Diablo II?
I tried original version with ProjectD2, BaseMod, PlugY and d2dx, took me a long time to install all that and be in a working state. But then after 2 minutes in game I already notice some annoying bug like buggy stash and closed it.
Just play the remaster
I prefer my game to be offline and drm free so that I can play them when I want. There is no way to make the new version drm free.
Doesn't mod like project diablo 2 or path of diablo as
mentioned add lot of QoL changes? QoL is mostly what I want.
Yes. Increased stash space, charm inventory, improved character sheet, transferring items with modifier+click, loot filters, ladder-items in SP, that sort of thing
In my opinion, Path of Diablo
PlugY is the best. The only changes it makes are allowing Battle Net runewords / crafting offline and a (nearly) infinite storage. Those are really the only two things you need for single player.
Why are most ARPGs so shit? D2 and PoE are great, but everything else outside of that is a complete snoozefest.
Because most diabe-girlkes focus on being like diablo without understanding diablo's own roots (it is a realtime roguelike). As a result, they diverge from diablo characteristics, which themselves are already divergent from roguelikes. This is the wrong approach. The correct approach is to understand the source material, understand the source of divergences, and figure out different or altered divergences that achieve either a different goal (as set by the project goals) or the same goal but better.
The whole genre is garbage dopamine hits that you can get out of something more honest like cookie clicker
>go to buy D2 Resurrected on console to play solo
>need battle.net account
>offline for 30 days locks you out of the game
>keep my money
I fricking hate Blizzard so much
>offline for 30 days locks you out of the game
What? Seriously?
It's basically their drm which hurts people who play offline. If you don't go online for a certain amount of time you lose your ability to play offline
Just picked up D2R on Switch. Surprisingly cozy to play in bed and runs well.
I like D3's arcade gameplay
What's the best arpg like that?
PoE is too complicated for me
cookie clicker
Tri Quarterly Reminder: Diablo 2 community was the cancer that introduced mass appeal microtransactions.
So much money traded over fake items so long ago that every company on earth adopted it, and diablo 3 was created around the real money market idea, so much so that you can still see the affects it had on items today.
Diablo 2 will ALWAYS be the most cancerous game, and community ever created.
What's a good game in the genre for a beginner? I've tried PoE, Lost Ark and Inquisitor, but they bombard you with skill trees, mechanics, small inventories, etc. The easiest one I've played is Grim Dawn because it doesn't have all of that.
Epoch
D3 or Chronicon (which is just an indie D3 with a bit more build variety)
neither of them require a single ounce of brainpower
diablo 3 unironically, the only thing you have to worry about is finding items for your build
>finding items for your build
>season literally hands you your full set for free
>gambling is cheap as frick
>every single resource you need is provided by just spamming rifts
I like how Diablo 3 doesn't require me to go full guidegay to enjoy it, but jesus christ they went way too hard in the other direction. What's the point of "builds" when everything just revolves around a set effect that gives one of your skills a 2000x damage multiplier
homie the skill trees and the inventories ARE the game
homie PoE has a stupidly massive skill tree.
>80% of it is just STAT UP
>19% of it is just OTHER NUMBER UP
>1% of it is actual unique effects
Even that 1% is better than what diablo offers or most other games really. Not to mention that is just passive skill tree, and you have active skill gems on top which adds quite a variety as well
I hate the gem system, just give me PoE2 already
You dont need meta 100% optimized internet builds for poe unless you go end game and want to have autistic clear rates. Just pick the skills you enjoy and build around that
If you can stomach the hardcoded lowrez Sacred Gold is great. Divine Divinity is also great provided you don't use freeze weaps because then it becomes trivial.
How is D2 the only game that makes being a summoner feel good?
I wish games copied it, and not just top down games but an elden ring/skyrim, etc summoners. Skelleton armies that follow the main character, or zombies or animals, soldiers, anything.
It's the only one that lets him be BASED, despite like half of the class being nonfunctional due to the synergy patch tweaking enemy hp to the stratosphere.
>permanent duration skeletons and golem
>like a lot of skeletons
>extremely powerful debuffs with minimal point investment
>corpse explosion without any gay shit or damage scaling on stats or point investment or anything
>doesn't have to jump through a million hoops to synergize his build with buffs and auras and rare specific unique items etc.
I like my Druid summoner I've made in 1st season but Jesus Christ minions pathfinding was horseshit, I don't understand why Vicarious Visions simply won't improve it.
Yeah, I'm playing one right now and half of my wolves just stand around licking their asses while my merc gets merc'd and my Spirit evaporates. Shit's annoying.
Which merc are you using? Personally I was using act 3 for the Enchant he casts on summons but tried to switch it for Rogue with Faith later but never did it after I cleared Uber Tristram.
I'm still going through Hell but Act2 for Might. Does Enchant work on druid summons?
He does but because of the way mercenary AI works he starts doing it only during a big fights, becasue mercs don't cast spells while idle/not fighting.
Idk I liked my Dominating Blow/Herald of Purity templar
Phantasy Star Online is unique enough that's it's not a straight clone, but it's very much inspired by Diablo. One of my favorite games.
Have you tried not being clinically moronic?
https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2020/8/2/21348946/phantasy-star-online-director-diablo-cut-features-christmas-nights
Are you denying PSO is inspired by Diablo?
>Some people like Setsumasa stayed around until 10 or 11 p.m. at night after people left the office. He would connect Diablo to the network and play until morning, wake up to work, and then play again. Some of us weren’t going home much at the time. Some people would go home just to bathe, sleep a few hours, come back into the office to work, and then play Diablo at the office. It was mostly in the name of research, though. There are a number of games that we used as inspiration. Diablo was obviously one of them. I had heard that Dragon Quest was inspired by remaking Ultima with a Japanese audience in mind. So our concept was, “Let’s make a Diablo game that would appeal to the Japanese audience.”
>brain status: not found
It's okay to admit you were wrong anon
FRICK sega for killing pso just to turn it into garbage generic open world shitfest.
Yeah, Sega isn't what it used to be sadly
I miss single player PS games and PSO. Those were amazing games. Granted, PSU, PSP games and PS0 were cool too but there nothing quite like the Master System and mega drive games, and PSO
>See a gap in the market
>too lazy to capitalize on it
why is making games so hard
Looks gay
love tossin' hammers
love me enigma
simple as
D2 Hammerdin has set pack the Paladin archetype in every Hack and Slash that came after it. Everyone keeps chasing the Hammerdin build.
Last Epoch gutted their unique paladin trees in an effort to chase Enigma teleporting Hammerdins.
I'm probably the only one who likes Diablo 2 more than the other in the genre because of its aesthetic.
Shit looks pretty creepy when I was young. Other games feel pretty lackluster in that regard.
Nah, it's not just you. D2's aesthetic is top tier and a big reason I enjoy it. Love the monster designs too.
Audio design is a big part of it as well. 11/10. Even Diablo 3 didn't do the audio as well as 2 (or 1 even).
>play game
>have fun
>inventory gets full
>stop having fun, sit idle in town because i don't want to clean my inventory
One thing that sucks about D2 is the inventory size. It's tiny for a game about collecting loot. Constantly making mules.
why are you collecting so much trash
>he doesn't keep every gem he finds
just keep +1 of every kind required for upping runes so 3 chips keep 4 once you get your 5th turn 3 into the next higher tier
Good idea, I guess I'll start doing that. Before I was collecting perfect gems to trade with, but now I have basically everything I want. It's probably time to make a new character even, feels like there's not much left to shoot for beside leveling otherwise.
I do the same with runes as well and every ladder usually end up with 3 decently leveled characters and 1 or 2 of them end up as mules in the end
I hope person responsible for putting gems in runes recipes will go to hell and all he does as penance is to have infinite amount of rune "Thul", farm chipped topazes and every time he mutes an "Amn" the devil that fricks him in the ass takes a break for 1 minute.
yeah it is kind of annoying. I also wish they didn't stop with those craftable item recipes
That's just one of the fricking moronic things they did because "NOOO MUH HECKING BOTTERINOS NOT THE CHINK FARMERINOS" and fricked legit players in the ass. My personal favorite "frick you" is how they implemented xp gain minimum levels that literally force you to stop to farm during Normal or you'll be too low level, fall off the curve and stop gaining xp.
Yeah, the xp restrictions are moronic too but at least you can optimize the farm.
thats how poe gets money, people buying big ass chests and dumping everything there while saying "i will organize later" then never organizing but buying more stashes.
Act 3 fricking sucks, frick these flayers
I hate it but I always forgive Blizzard North for making it that way as it is the only Act where I actually see "new" layouts from time to time. I had a really crazy one last year which was basically a huge infinity symbol with the interconnected areas.
My "favourite" one was an absolute nightmare maze while playing online
>can't find objectives
>can't find waypoints
>great marsh was a dead end that I explored completely
>finally find flayer jungle
>getting exhausted and ready to stop playing d2 for the day
>finally atleast find flayer jungle waypoint
>the zone changes to great marsh on the last stretch before the waypoint
>oh god no
>great marsh waypoint in flayer jungle when there wasn't even a connection from great marsh to flayer jungle
Yeah, the Act 3 generation was allowed to get really funky. It is extremely rare but you can even get layouts that don't generate waypoints at all - at least none that you can get to as they are in their own disconnected circle. I have never seen that happen to a dungeon entrance though.
There was a few times where I couldn't find wtf the flyer jungle was, but I got to kurast, so I would end up working backwards from the bazaar unti I found it
Been playing this game half my life and act 3 is still a pain in the ass to navigate
>29
>half my life
>been playing D2 (and D2R now) on and off every 1-2 years since I was 9
>dump 200-300 hours in , burn out and quit
>eventually get an itch to play again
>rinse and repeat every year or so
>because of D2R extending D2s lifespan even further , it's likely my own son will end up playing D2 for the first time when he is that same age
Nothing wrong with this. Summertime is DII time for me. I have been playing new / different builds for over 20 years. Yes, I'm getting into the really damn niche ones these days but its still fun.
Partly because the game isn't afraid to let you become brokenly overpowerd if you know what your doing, which itself requires work and game know-how, which itself can be rewarding
Especially if your a necromancer/paladin/sorc
If you haven't done it yet, consider getting plugy and doing a holy grail, as in, collect every unique and set items in the game. It has an infinite stash, allows you to do the ubers and dclone, and you can use e-girl maphack to filter items and get a warning message when something good drops. It may sound like shit but it's a really nice QoL upgrade when you're playing on /players 8 and drop tons of stuff that overlaps and can hide that precious Ber rune.
Otherwise :
- Titan Quest is great
- Dungeon Siege 1 is great, haven't played the rest
- Torchlight 1 & 2 are great
- Diablo 3 is... Enjoyable to play a season once in a while ? But that's not really worth the price.
- PoE is flawed, but can be really nice. I mostly hate the fact that a lot of content is exclusive to a seasonal system that forces you to play during specific times and then dumps your character (items included) in the "no content" mode once the season ends. And you have to start over next season. And whenever you feel like playing the game, there's a good chance it will be more than halfway through a season and thus you know if you create a new character he'll be doomed soon. Oh and 98% of builds are too weak and you'll have to follow one online if you want to be efficient.
>If you haven't done it yet, consider getting plugy and doing a holy grail, as in, collect every unique and set items in the game. It has an infinite stash, allows you to do the ubers and dclone, and you can use e-girl maphack to filter items and get a warning message when something good drops. It may sound like shit but it's a really nice QoL upgrade when you're playing on /players 8 and drop tons of stuff that overlaps and can hide that precious Ber rune.
what you have described is basically just committing suicide except really slow. rejecting any experience of value in the world because it might be hard, to sit there and solo click on diablo for a million hours like cookie clicker
as someone who just had a serious health scare at 40, don't do this, your life is more valuable than this
Isn't that all video games though ?
If Diablo 4 has the loot of 2, the gamefeel of 3 and the endgame content of PoE it would be the perfect game.
Sadly it's already corrupted by fricking microtransactions and battlepasses
>If Diablo 4 has the loot of 2
It won't, they intentionally don't want it to because it would discourage you from whaling for micro-transactions
But the micro transactions are just cosmetic
r-right?
idk about the best probably torchlight2, they all have their charm but ive been playing Chronicon and its pretty badass
>idk about the best probably torchlight2
torchlight 2 is literally among the worst diablo clones of all time
Champion of Norrath & the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games
Grim Dawn
Is it even possible for zoomers to get into D2/D2R , im pretty sure 80% of the player base are the same people who have been playing it for nearly 25 years
>D4 forgotten in a month
>D2 outlives D4, a game relased two and a half decades later
>still has a strong player base
Does D2 have the longest legs of any game ever made
Age of Empires 2 is still going strong, so until that dies, no.
you can't beat Tetris
Starcraft 1 Brood War has tens of thousands of Koreans online at the same time. Outside of Korea however barely 1k. Warcraft 3 is still (by dead rts genre standards) strong, especially in China and Eastern Europe. Good Blizzard era of games.
>D2 outlives D4
pretty early to be writing headcanon
People don't talk about it much but Everquest 1 and 2 both still get annual expansion releases to this day.
cant talk for that guy but no one cares about everquest outside project 99 which is so tedious it takes years to max. and im a fricking neet and even i dont wanna spend ALL that time
Lineage 2 too, I always wondered about this. Who the frick keep playing those games. How are those companies are still alive? Do they really generate enough revenue to keep afloat. So many questions.
I'm the anon that asked for what the best way to play d2 in 2023.
I have found this project: https://github.com/whipowill/d2-plugy-qol
It look quite nice including qol stuff and easy to install, I think I will try it.
The closest I got in feeling to it was the first Torchlight. Other than that what the other anons have said - the genre is stagnant as hell. PoE is still your best bet, though it dials the complexity up to 11 and the recent expansions have made it very twitchy and, imo, much less fun than before.
Diablo 3 is and im tired of pretending 2 is better.
Firstly, movement and combat is simply the best of any ARPG. Its smooth and extremely responsive. Secondly skills actually look and feel great to use, whereas in most ARPGs you're either totally passive (TQ, PoE) or feels very dated (D2) only D1 feels as satisfying and thats only for magic casting. Finally and most importantly D3 got it right with legendaries giving massive power boosts and being able to equip 3 on any character including new ones makes replays/new characters way more fun than other games.
It too way too fricking long to get here, and D4 will probably fail hard to learn any lessons, but you have to be mentally stunted or totally rose tinted to think D2 is still the best game in the genre.
D3 feels way way better than D2 and adventure mode is a godsend for replaying, but it is also a downgrade in so many other ways
>aesthetics just are way worse, especially now that resurrected is out and blows D3 out of the water
>loot is terrible, class sets having such busted effects means they are the only thing you care about, you only care about getting an ancient/primal version of gear you already have but it doesn't really make that much of a difference
>endgame is literally just doing rifts over and over again, just so you can up the difficulty and do more rifts
>paragon infinite leveling just means you don't have to put any effort or thought into become stronger, just keep dumping into your main stat and become a god since your main stat dictates both your damage output and damage resistance
Apart from aesthetics though those issues are very late game, the leveling and early max level content is the most enjoyable by a long shot. Its this mindless shilling of D2 being perfect thats just stupid, its incredibly dated now.
>very late game
>literally happens the moment you reach level 70 and they basically just hand out your full class set for free after looking at the seasonal checklist
Also the shitty difficulty system means you never have a good balance while playing through the campaign and leveling either, and Torment 1 through 9 literally don't have a reason to exist due to how strong the class set makes you. Don't even get me started on how the class sets completely restrict build creativity either
I still have fun with Diablo 3 but it has so many fricking issues that I can't see myself playing it often, but it's definitely fun enough to pick up occasionally. Basically Diablo 3 is the kind ARPG you pick up and play a bit of when I don't feel like spending too much time investing in PoE while still getting that itch scratched since it requires no brain energy to start clearing rifts.
Infinite paragon levels is probably the worst mechanic implemented in D3, it makes the game much worse even compared to gear with numbers doubled every season by that 1 employee that still maintains this game.
honestly just play Prroject diablo 2.
none, stick to that relic and stop shitting games that actually could be good if not for bunch of buttholes like you wanting and not being able to relive their youth and their input.
just keep playing diablo 2 and keep your copeinions to yourself. No game ever will make you 12 and rmt'ing hr's on third party webside again.
this unironically.
>what if we made d3 but somehow even worse
nah, it's nothing like D3.
>3 difficulty tiers like D2
>build-your-own-class with items
>enchantments on items allow for sub+classes
>isn't GAS GAS GAS like D3
>no mandatory teleport spell like D2
>not hunting for *insert best runeword here* or *insert best set piece here*
Median XL
nioh 2
What's the best arpg on pc with controller support?
Diablo 2: Resurrected
I'm making a Buddhist Diablo-like. Just uploaded my first demo. It's free on itch and I could really use some playtesters. Please check it out if you're interested.
https://vita-brevis.itch.io/samsara-wheel-of-extinction
ive been playing dark alliance I and II and diablo II a lot lately and imo the they're best were going to get
I enjoyed grim dawn and titan quest and poe a decade ago but feels like nothing will beat them. I really wish there was a modding scene for baldurs gate: dark alliance it'd be amazing
Divine Divinity is great despite the stupid name. Just don't break the game by using freezing weapon which works even on end boss and you will be fine or do it for fun. Also playing ranged character is a good idea.
It's a moronic and clunky floaty game.
>kill monsters to get exp and loot
>use exp and loot to kill monsters better
>repeat ad nauseam
>favorite game
That's some shit taste you got there anon, but to answer your question, pretty much any game in the genre will do, since they're all about doing the same shit over and over. Just play WoW, it will suit you fine.
It's not simply about the gameplay anon. Immersion via the OST, sound effects, visual atmosphere and the like add flavor to hack n' slash titles like these.
>all these zoomers defending D3
Day of the Adderall soon
PoE
Path of Exile
nothing comes closer
Used to be the corrected answer, but the base game is beyond repair right now.
And '"PoE2'" is not going to fix it.
Because PoE2 is vaporware
Grail bros check in
Finished mine over the summer, never thought it'd be possible. Just gotta keep grinding.