Did anyone make a D20 with custom faces ?
Not to be a special snowflake only to make it more readable with symbols and not numbers.
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 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
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Dice talk
Did anyone make a D20 with custom faces ?
Not to be a special snowflake only to make it more readable with symbols and not numbers.
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UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
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That's a countdown die, not a d20.
Please do not get triggered by the OP picture. It is like a book cover.
My girlfriend is currently making a set of dice as I type. I printed her some 3D masters on my resin 3d printer. Its a huge frick around of a process if you're not already into crafts and things but it'd be pretty easy to just add whatever symbol you want on the dice. Doing all the math to make it perfectly balanced is another thing entirely. Custom sets tend to just be for looks.
Huh?
OK.
My idea was that someone invent symbols that are faster to read then numbers.
This is an interesting idea, can you do some research on it since I'm pretty sure someone has published research on this topic.
My research started by asking /tg/
My impression is that this is a fairly broad topic and there are no agreements. Isn't a number a symbol?
>Isn't a number a symbol?
YES. However other pointed out that reading numbers takes longer then looking at symbols on a D6 and this is why a D6 uses these symbols.
Also keep in mind that D20s go beyond 10 and you are now representing numbers in a positional system. I mean you can go to base 22 like in hexadecimal.
>reading numbers takes longer then looking at symbols on a D6
?
How would you measure this
I am still trying to get my head around it too. When a non number symbol has a direct correlation to the game mechanic it makes sense. Like gaslands skid dice. And what? Maybe symbols that would save you the trouble of looking up the rolled number on a chart - like body hit dice vs a hit location chart. pic sort of related
Na I was thinking dice that are based on numbers since D6 are based on numbers only use symbols to be easy to read.
not gonna be possible. pips on a D6 may be easier to read, but it's not gonna stay that way once you get to 20 sides. nevermind how crowded it would get.
it's either the die just says the number, or it says some sort of symbol that you have to either be familiar with or be able to count, and then translate it in your head real quick
What about a D12 ?
I was thinking and do this
1) use pips
2) one pips are - the other + they exist in sets of 6
So
1-6 (-)
7-12 (+)
Color the (-) blue and the (+) red.
Since 50% represents a crucial point in some games this division has meaning.
twelve sided dice are perfection
>twelve sided dice are perfection
Elaborate.
good balance of roll and tumble. 12 is a great number(i am the dozenal anon from above). For the amount of sides, it has large readable faces.
I think about it.
You see I was getting sick of D6 in 40K where literally everything is
Hit on 5-
Hit on 4-
Since hit on 3- is 50% D12 has some verity between 50% and ~99% However D20 has more verity.
>has large readable faces.
Can this not be solved by you know making D20 physically bigger ?
I'm a little wary about using colour because it limits using different coloured dice. Probably not too bad if you're using different shapes as well, just something to be aware of.
I'd be tempted to use 0-11 with 0 blank, 11 filled, and 1-5 then 6-10 designs using the pentagonal faces. Or the Zener cards somehow?
>zener cards
How about considering the valerian argam I spent time trying to research for you itt, instead of taking the advice of a braindead troll. I can't believe that I wasted time on this thread and I wish I wasn't stuck on Ganker forever because it's a colossal waste of time and you're all pretty dumb compared to me.
Because it's not my project and those serve a completely different purpose so I can't see why the frick you ever brought them up.
Not him however
> those serve a completely different purpose
And what is that purpose ? I like to know.
>valerian argam
Because they are trash ugly shapes who all look the same and according to
https://numerals.fandom.com/wiki/Valerian_Argam_Extension_and_Variants
And
They literally have a horizontally flipped 2 in there. And a flipped 7 and a flipped 3 after 9.
I also see a flipped 5 like you can imagine this is literally useless for dice.
>And what is that purpose ?
Of the Valerian Argam shit? Inventing extra glyphs for numbers above 9. The main problem with it being that almost nobody wants such a thing. It sure as frick isn't making numbers more readable.
>Of the Valerian Argam shit? Inventing extra glyphs for numbers above 9
There where other ideas before this and base 64 is one of these examples.
> The main problem with it being that almost nobody wants such a thing
Only why ? Gliphs are limited.
Also I dope in base65536
https://github.com/qntm/base65536
This uses every character from every language.
I'm not sure what you're asking me. You're surprised that someone would do something despite other, similar things already existing? You somehow can't tell the difference between someone inventing glyphs and someone encoding data in existing glyphs?
How is any of this relevant to dice?
>How is any of this relevant to dice?
I have no idea. Who was the guy who started spamming this Valerian crap in this thread ?
a few things
1. You're dumb and I'm not going to repeat myself. You don't understand much about math or cognitive studies. If I could, I'd delete my older posts because you simply don't deserve the information. Thankfully, you can't understand it, so its the same difference
2. I literally just posted an image of popular dice using argam Valerian. This isn't something I'm just making up. You're just too dumb and new to understand it
3. You're arguing among yourselves (and I use the term argument very liberally here, its more like shitflinging)
4. You're probably too new to know what I mean when I say "here forever"
5. The game
>. If I could, I'd delete my older posts because you simply don't deserve the information
Cry harder schizo.
>2. I literally just posted an image of popular dice using argam Valerian.
YES how long did the 3D render take ?
And like I pointed out schizo moron your schizo font is one of the worst you can use for dice.
There is no going around this you are simply stupid and wrong.
The fact that you the schizo get angry and do not answer questions shows why you are a schizo.
You need to rethink your life choices.
Schizo your schizo shit is funny and you are even more funny for refusing to answer what purpose your schizo shit serves.
You do not know with whom you are speaking :^)
>Schizo
>schizo
>schizo
The ones living rent free in your head?
>Live rent free meme
YIKES. The schizo is moronic.
you seem unfamiliar with how anonymous image boards work
Funnily enough I made a similar thread yesterday, looking for 2-colored D6s to identify faster if dices where >=3.
enough I made a similar thread yesterday, looking for 2-colored D6s to identify faster if dices where >=3.
1) Get old school dice you need to color in
2) Use different colors
>to identify faster if dices where >=3.
This is also a important idea.
There are a bunch of custom dice manufacturers... I know Q workshop off the top of my head. I used them to make custom 20 sided d4s.
If you Google custom dice you should be able to find some.
no idea why people keep purchasing and using dice with custom sides and what´s the point other than making them harder to read for everyone
now i am going to listen spoony talk about dice for an hour because i just remembered it because of this thread
>[YouTube] Counter Monkey - Dem Bones
HOLLY SHIT IS THIS SPOONY ! What happened to him ?
>custom sides
Some people where saying that D20s are hard to read so I started to think.
>Did anyone make a D20 with custom faces ?
No, but i've applied my own labels to blank twelve sided dice making custom duodecimal(base 12) sets- pic related. For 20 sided you can look the Maya and their vigesimal base 20 number system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigesimal
This is cool, I'm a big fan of non base 10 number systems because they can communicate that math literacy is not about memorizing formal systems and axioms that are convenient for bipedal apes and that invoking such systems does not mean that your conservative presupposition is axiomatic. This should be more common in education
thanks. I made them multi purpose as well. Along with the base twelve facing the blue squares are d6, the red dots orientate and work as a d3 and the roman numerals as d4.
What cognitive difference do you get from using these?
I was just playing around. But the initial idea was to convert a d100(hundred) to a d100(144) base twelve. The thinking being that normal everyday division is easier to do on a base 12 system. So I would end up with more granularity than a normal base ten d100. Plus it makes it easier to divide by 1/3 and 1/4.
Interesting, yeah depending on the base you could get some 'objectively(?)' quicker mathematics (based on the axioms we have right now), I guess what I'm curious about is if there is any cognitive difference in a subjective way from using symbols other than numbers
Not the same as hex but similar pattern according to wiki doesn't triacontakaidecimal act as a kind of extended hex? This is a cool idea and I kind of want to make some hex inspired dice now
>any cognitive difference in a subjective way from using symbols other than numbers
Someone pointed this out when I suggested a dice pool of D20 and I started to think that we get problems since D20s are not essay for him to read. I think the problem is when you need to do positional algebra instead of looking at 2 symbol.
So I think
13 gives you a pause VS 8 beaning easy to understand
>13 gives you a pause VS 8 beaning easy to understand
Can you explain a bit more
>Can you explain a bit more
My theory is since these are 2 symbols you need to interpret it for longer then looking at one especially that there is a 1X and a 20 so you can not easily look and see (Oh it is 8 and 1 dash).
I also think that 6 and 9 are problematic since they are the same symbol reversed.
Io started to think about it and you notice that classic D6 have their symbols on them.
Try that what is easier to read a D12 or a D8 ?
Interesting idea, I agree with you that something like 20 is at least prima facie more cluttered than "K" since it consists of two symbols (2 and 0), and there is more ambiguity with something like 6 and 9. It would be interesting to read a study comparing if it is more difficult to process math with multiple ambiguous symbols vs simple 'unitary' symbols like A, B, etc.
Here's an interesting post from reddit on memorizing letter placement (useful for base 32)
https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnUselessTalents/comments/2q9kfi/how_to_memorize_alphabet_letters_position_in_the/
"You can also use ejoty. Every letter in ejoty is a multiple of 5, in ascending order.
For example, when looking for the Q. You roughly know it's between the O and the T, so you start counting at the O. O is the 3rd letter in ejoty, so the 15th (3*5) in the alphabet. This means P is the 16th letter and Q is the 17th letter."
IIRC, some studies found Indian and Chinese students math performance can be attributed to Chinese and Hindi having special symbols for numbers that are less cognitively intensive than Arabic numerals
I am probably the person you're talking about.
I don't think a new, less familiar number system would help. The basic issue with the d20 is just that the faces are smaller than on other similarly sized dice. It's not an issue of stopping to think about what the symbol I'm looking at means, it's just being able to see and recognise shit.
Pip d6s have an advantage here not because pips are more natural or whatever, but simply because the six shapes they're arranged in are distinctive. That's just harder to do when you have 20 symbols to distinguish.
>That's just harder to do when you have 20 symbols to distinguish.
And this is why I was asking if anyone tried this.
> they're arranged in are distinctive
What do you think of Zener cards ?
I haven't tried anything with Zener cards but they look pretty good for distinguishing from a distance. And readily map to numbers. But they only go up to 5.
>But they only go up to 5.
Yes this is the problem here Maybe combine digits from 1 to 9 with them for a total of 14 ?
This is why I'm asking if anyone before tried to solve this with different symbols.
Mixing digits with other symbols sounds like a recipe for confusion.
0-9 and 0-9 with reversed printing might be easier to read, as ditching the 10s place gives you a little more room. Not sure it'll work well with the engraved printing on dice though.
so yeah val-argam solves both of those issues since the symbols are domain specific and can go up to base 5000
>Mixing digits with other symbols sounds like a recipe for confusion.
The same thing happens if we go to base 32.
> like a recipe for confusion.
Yes the point is that you learn the new symbols and after learning them can read your dice faster.
The problem with this kind of trick is that you're still translating A to 10 and C to 12, because you're used to work in base 10.
The only way to actually benefit from the speed increase is to use your new system so much that it becomes second nature, which you're unlikely to do. In the end you're wasting time doing an extra conversion
>it becomes second nature,
I do not know computer guys can do it. And it is not that hard as interpreting what FF is
If your game heavily features division, then you've already fricked up, but even if we ignore that - wouldn't you spend much more time trying to read the number in base 12?
Could be OK for a solo system, but imagine having to get your group to learn the numbers in base 12
No heavy division. Like I was trying posted earlier, I wanted to take a d100 roll under system like CoC or mythras and turn into a base 12. I would have 1-144 vs 1-100 for more gradient and those types of systems will have you do math - a difficult task would be your skill cut in half or to one third.
Again, was just for fun. I'm not expecting a single other person to get it.
The other idea had for them was to rework the faserip chart to dozenal and have a smoother curve put in.
Punctuation should have been more common in your education, fancy lad.
frick off upstairs prescriptivist
>look the Maya and their vigesimal base 20 number system.
AAAAA
Forgot this was a thing.
That other anon made me think dude what if we use computer base 32 on the dice.
So the numbers go
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
A (10)
B (11)
C (12)
D (14)
E (15)
F (16)
G (17)
H (18)
I (19)
J (20)
Would that be easier to read ?
If anything I feel like this would really help you get a sense for hex if you're doing reverse engineering as a hobby or professional
>hex
Sorry hex is 16 I present base 32 and no numbers above 16 will frick you over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexadecimal
base32hex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base32
And the reason these bases are like this is because computerizes did go
>Duno lets use the alphabet now
Instead of inventing their own symbols.
And I did take base 32 becasue you cam plaster this on a D20 or a D12 no problem.
You'd have to skip letters that look like numbers, E, I, G, or the readability would go down again.
Why I ?
I also was thinking about hard rep[lacing the digit 6 with 6 dots like on dice and
Oh Ganker will not let me post this Unicode
Either way imagine
16
as
1 <6 dots>
>E,
Can be confusing to F this is why I was asking about symbols.
I is the same as 1
>I is the same as 1
What if you use the fancy 1 ?
Sure, that will work on dice where the font is fixed. But people are also going to be writing the results down. Or writing up a table mapping rolls to results. Avoiding ambiguity is always a Good Thing.
>been here since early 2000s
chortle
Interesting wiki of numeric symbols
https://numerals.fandom.com/wiki/Numerals_Wiki
Does it really take that much time to read a number consisting of, at most, 3 digits?
How much time do you possibly hope to save with this?
An hour over the course of an entire lifetime of rolling dice?
don't think you really are ready to have this conversation sorry
https://numerals.fandom.com/wiki/Valerian_Argam_Extension_and_Variants
I'm sorry what ?
>Over the course of 42 days since July 30, 2021 (which was the new "decade" of the Aenorian calendar), Dozenalism streamed his initial production of the argam extension from 2,520 to 5,040 on Discord for two hours every day, with an aim sixty glyphs (numerals) per stream. Argam-5040 was first completed on September 2021.
I'm sorry what ?
>Amarian is named after Amaya, Dozenalism's longest-lasting crush, and who the Valerian numberforms are dedicated to. "Amaya" is not her real name; it is only a name used when writing about her as he wasn't fond of her first name, as well as that his crushes are never to
I'm sorry what ?
>aren't currently "Valerian-Canon"
I'm sorry what ?
high power level
>I'm sorry what ?
High production autism is the best way to put it.
More like a schizo on discord.
low int
Sonichu, but with numbers?
this board and website is for autists, kindly take your cyberbullying back to kiwifarms
You might not be happy here, with such a think skin.
>think skin
been here since early 2000s, that's your last (you)
.
Haven't done a d20, but I did combine d2, d3, d4, d6, and d12 into 1d12 (mostly because I dislike the shape of the d4 and how it "rolls".)
doh...4got pic...
great minds anon
This is a good idea anon, d4 is fricking awful
It helps to only have that, a d8 and d20 on the table for the smooth-brained players... "which one do I roll?" is heard far less frequently.
I had these made because the d4 blows
The font is AIDS and hard to read.
Looks good anon, ignore the brainlet troll itt
How did you manufacture them?
Is there a template for the other d12 stuff posted itt?
Used Q Workshop. They've got a custom dice option. The minimum run was 50 so I ended up paying 190$ for them.
I made some d12 versions with Chessex and those are pretty cool too. It was 120$ for 10 dice (their smallest custom size)
http://www.dozenal.org/archive/DuodecimalBulletinIssue4a2.pdf
Intriguing anthology of articles on math symbolism
>more readable with symbols and not numbers
kys illiterate moron
math 5b is down the hall and to the left
>kys illiterate moron
Cute gayot now explain to the class how positional notation lets you read it faster VS shapes.
There is a reason humans recognize shapes/pictures better then words.
pointless to try to talk to these kinds of normies. they're like homeless schizos that wander into cafes screaming nonsense
I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly are you trying to say. Are you claiming that "2" and "1" aren't shapes? Or that fact that "21" is two shapes it would be harder to read then a single shape like pic related? Either way, learning and applying a new way of representing numbers is always going to be slower then the Arabic (aka Persian aka Hindu) numerals everyone already knows and uses.
It takes a moment to process if something is a 20 or 16 and 2 shapes I think mess with someone looking at it.
Look at traditional dice and notice how the dots are used and how instantly you can know what you rolled on them.
>instantly
When my daughter was young, I had to teach her what the symbols on dice meant. There is nothing "instant" about pips on d6, only habit formed over years (decades in my case) of use.
source?
I guess the argument isn't that symbols aren't inductively learned but that once learned it's better to have a symbol that can't be confused with other conceptual domains. One of the advantages of Valerian-Argam over computerspeak (hex, 32, 64) is that it doesn't have this problem (A, B, C ... belong to a separate domain)
>One of the advantages of Valerian-Argam over computerspeak
Are you seriously shilling your schizophrenia now?
You're filtered by this conversation, why are you itt. You're just making an otherwise high iq convo uncomfy. If I wanted that I'd go to reddit or irl
>Muh IQ big
LOL.
Look your schizo shit is schizo shit what symbols need is to be recognizable this is why this was developed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_cards
Not your doodling whatever until all the shapes look the same.
Go away troll, you aren't contributing anything interesting or comfy.
Answer the criticism schizo.
Symbol 3 and are flipped making them literally unsuitable for dice.
It isn't criticism. Ad hominems are not criticism. It's like we're discussing Brothers Karamazov and you're talking about Harry Potter.
>It isn't criticism.
It is.
STATEMENT :
For dice the symbols must be
1) Non reversed
This literally disqualifies a symbol form being used and is the reason 6 and 9 get extra shit.
2) Be fast to distinguish.
OPTIONAL
3) In dice there is no need to go over 20 symbols.
HISTORY:
Zener Cards where developed to be easily recognizable shapes.
CRITICISM:
Prove your Valerian-Argam fulfills this criteria.
That's not criticism and I'm not gonna continue engaging with you
>That's not criticism
It is prove your case.
Also, valerian-argam seems overly complex but the point is to set an initial base. E.g., base 12. Then you're just using the first 12 valerian argam symbols. The advantage of V-a is that you can do this up to a base of something like 5000. It's not intended for baseless math
>source?
She came out of my wife's snatch like tooth paste. I witnessed this in person.
You should find somewhere better to store toothpaste.
>of use.
Ok and we are talking when you master them.
>When my daughter was young
I mean it is simple you move as many as there are dots on the face. Cave man mathematics however notice that they are arranged in shapes to look nice and be recognizable.
utl
Only time I saw something like this it was on a pro supplier so you had to buy about 500-1000 at once minimum.
If reading a number is too inefficient, then why not utilize sound? An app which denotes different tones, not merely based on a numerical value - but which qualifies the result with an appropriate auditory signal? Needed a '20', got a '1'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w. You got that '20'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdFxHb9wpW8
Is this silly? Maybe - but, all new ideas look that way. No more 'looking' at a die roll - your eyes are free to do other things - like take notes, adjust hitpoints, etc. Still want to express die faces with the argam Valerian? Try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_FRPoJIrlI
>why not utilize sound? An app
Pointless.
If you are using the computer you can use D whatever like on a spinner and simply use how many spinners you like the program can also filter failed results.
>one of my players has a d20 with octagonal faces
Why don’t I see more of these d20s
Hi Kent, you drunken sodomite
My dicebag got mixed up at a convention so I ended up with a lot of those. Can anybody tell me what those are?
Those are MTG life counters. In Magic the Gathering you start with 20 life points (most of the time) which is that for like symbol instead of 20. You use the other faces to track how much life you have left. The main win condition in MtG is reducing Opponent's life to 0.
They are in addition, spindown dice. If you are even moderately talented at spinning you can probably hit a high teen anytime you want.