>M-MUH BIG WORDS
kek i can tell from ur post u have no sports no girls no nothing frick are you saying about your book shit I WANNA SEE CONSTANT CHAOS go read your books about le pirate le boring shit I WANNA SEE GUNS SHOOTING AND FRICKING HOT b***hES AND DRIVING FAST CARS your just a loser
idk man, he's kind of a dick, even in source material in the Old Testament. its implied SMT universes frick with deities and causes them to act out of character
>Nooo I don't want to be forced to do stuff by this guy stronger than me! Let's kill him! >Okay now that he's dead and I'm the strongest guy, there's gonna be some new rules around here!
Chaos is just the advent of new Law.
In most SMT games demons have a huge hateboner for humans and just hold moronic speeches about how shitty humanity is each time you talk with them, at least for 95% of the time. So no, demons are not really portrayed that nuanced, even though in theory they probably are.
they should be, as all things it depends on the writer. for the most part demons think humans are weakass pussies and either want to kill them, fight them, or just white knight them to the point of smothering cause they're law gays
Yeah. The demon thing is a riff on the word Daemon originally being used to refer to anything supernatural but eventually being used to refer to evil spirits
Are demons in SMT born from the collective unconscious or do some of them predate humanity? Did the stories create them or did they create the stories? Or is it some fricked causality/both/neither?
Changes in each game, SMT:SJ has it that Demons were mopping about until YHVH got powerful enough to seal them all in the Schwarzwelt. SMT:IV has it so that demons are created from humanity observing things and creating demons from it.
I don't care about real life politics because that's normalgay garbage that only wageslaves care about but in SMT, yes, centrism is always the moral "good", of course depending in your life philosophy you can see law as good or chaos as good, but the main route is always Neutral, it's the "humanity goes back to the way it was before" path, Law normally means 1984 while Chaos normally means anarchism and sucking demon wiener
this changes through the games, but the "good" route is always neutral
It always no matter what leads to the strongest demons ruling over their own turf. So you either get eaten by a bigger dog or live subjugated under a powerful demon, which is pretty much just law.
The issue comes from Chaos ultimately being Law for Narcissists. Chaosgays don't care about other people, just their own self-image and the idea of being on top. Which just leads to a conga line of backstabbing until you end up with a centralized figure who's too big to fail AKA Law.
They have a funny way of showing it considering most Chaos endings immediately create a shithole where demons devour humans. >might makes right!
Would mean a lot if the demon summoning program wasn't so rare.
Am working through SMT SJ now.
If God wanted us to be on team angel we'd still have Nephilim. Human route all the way. I just need to resume the damn game...
Is there a single decent law route or law representative in any SMT game? I played maybe now half of the SMT games and they were all completely moronic.
The 12-winged Mandala throne is super cool but why did they decide to make Lucifer an alien I know he's supposed to a fake but still I'm just curious as to why alien
Dagda didn't fix shit, all he did was make a YHVH that likes him. Nanashi basically gets to run train on a humanity that's been stripped of Perception.
Dagda's entire plan is to turn humans into a god-human hybrid free of dependence and the mortal frailty that yhvh imposed on people to continue the cycles. And don't try to suggest that being able to magically rewrite reality just by being wrong about nature is a good thing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>But muh humanity
11 months ago
Anonymous
Boosh. We already saw humans who were able to climb into divinity on their own via Maitreya and Krishna. Dagda only had one goal and that was to strip *record scratch* of his throne and go back to being the rain.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So what? You want to take the hard way just because? Dagda is offering humanity a gift that would free us as well as himself, you'd be a fool to turn it down.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If everyone's a god, no one is.
Based Chie enjoyer
the only correct opinion here
[...]
I feel bad for you zoomies who got all of your receptors cooked off from tiktok and can't have patience for anything that lasts longer than five seconds.
Bruh, let's not pretend SMT dungeons don't get absolutely stupid on purpose at points. The World of Sloth is right there.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Exactly. Nobody has power over anyone else, and yhvh's rules don't apply either. It's true freedom.
11 months ago
Anonymous
"true freedom" is nothing but abstraction. Without any reason to come together, mankind becomes monoliths.
All you did was make Musubi.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If dependence is the only reason you think people come together, you're a parasite with nothing to offer.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It ultimately comes down to that because there's only so much a single person can do. And so in order to gain and make up that difference, we cede part of that freedom in order to create what we could not alone. And in time those systems of give and take, action and consequence will form Law.
God gifted them slavery as his eternal gardeners.
No the Garden was basically looking after Adam. To the point where despite loving Lilith, he couldn't imagine life outside of it even with her. And once he ate the fruit with Eve, the two would know toil for the first time ever.
11 months ago
Anonymous
When god created eve for adam, it was not because he needed her for survival's sake. It was for the warmth of companionship. The negative repercussions dependency tries to avoid are only half the equation, there is a positive net gain if you're with the right people that though you can survive without it would lead to suboptimal quality of life. If humanity is even slightly worthwhile, we'll be able to find value in companionship regardless of need. If not, Musubi is what we deserve.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The problem is that the idea of becoming God is anathema to that companionship. If one is capable of all things, they ultimately stand alone on their own plane. No one stands with them but before or for them. We see this with YHVH where despite how much the angels sing of him, they are ultimately either mouthpieces or gofers for him. Even Metatron, the highest of high, is still nothing more than a loudspeaker.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's only because he has no true equals. Dagda's world isn't one with only one god, but a world of many gods. Like in any polytheist pantheon, you still see the gods coming together in companionship and even fricking and making new gods.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're confusing companionship with hierarchy which undermines your argument for Dagda's world being "better" something fierce. Gods in other pantheons aren't friends, if anything they're constantly climbing over one another for a higher position. We've seen it with Set and Horus, Loki and Baldr, Typhon and Zeus and so many more instances of it in SMT alone. It didn't solve anything, it just replaced Perception with humanity themselves if they don't all corral into their own personal dream bubbles.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not confusing anything, the two are very related to each other. Only one can stand at the superlative top, and being that one means you're alone. And yes, other pantheons are full of butthole gods, but they were demons invented by humanity's perception not actual stand alone beings.
11 months ago
Anonymous
All Dagda wanted was to be able to turn back into wind. He says multiple times he doesn't give a shit about humans and your "friends" are just a waste of oxygen. You literally got tricked by the most selfish loser in the series.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He makes good of his end of the bargain. He even gives you a waifu through which to reincarnate the souls that you bring with into the new world.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah he got what he wanted and let you be god as thanks for helping him out. He doesn't give a shit about humans, their souls, or whatever you decide to do with them, and given what an edgelord the game has you act like to get there, I think it's safe to assume it's not going to be anything good.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The game lets you be whatever you want. You can be a saint the whole game and still side with Dagda.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Name one edgy thing you have to do that isn't "kill the people who just turned on you and are trying to kill you" and "kill the people who Stephen sicced on you for funsies"
>Route split in every mainline Megaten game >Hardly anything changes but you skipping a boss or two based on your alignment. >Meanwhile the 8th days in tbh OC actually diverge from each other.
Devil Survivor was too good for this sinful earth.
Same with law. Be a benevolent savior of mankind, or a righteous subjugative ruler who kills sinners. Both tbhs did just a little more with the alignments that make them actually feel worthwhile.
I could go with either Naoya or Amane and I'd still feel completely justified in doing so, that's how fricking good the alignments and their reps were in tbh1. What a fricking great game.
Even if tbh 2 was an eva ripoff that did away with most of the good atmospheric stuff from the first game, it was still a pretty damn good game as well. tbh truly was too good for this shitty timeline.
Yes it is. Wiping the slate clean so the protag and his love interest can become Adam and Eve is incredibly boring. Hell, Last Bible already did that ending.
Hard to have a good law ending when law is always about subjugating human will. Even tbh's law ending has the cast raise numerous concerns on how the angels are handling human punishment, and needing to make a deal with them so they don't immediately kill every human with that distorted heart symbol.
Neutral is the most inoffensive option as most of the mainline games have a fairly cyclic view of whatever the big apocalyptic conflict is most of the time neutral is just ending the troubles for now and hoping humanity can sever themselves from the demon nonsense so the world doesn't have to be saved again.
>a-actually they don't say all of them are bad, just that the god they worship is bad, that heaven actually sucks and that destroying all demons is a bad thing!
There is nothing in this world better than knowledge, and thus, there is nothing in this world more evil than preventing people from acquiring such things
Dungeon crawlers are kinda shitty to be honest. I have played strange journey recently and the dungeons were just designed to waste your time. This genre should honestly be killed for good.
I feel bad for you zoomies who got all of your receptors cooked off from tiktok and can't have patience for anything that lasts longer than five seconds.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Just saying "you lack patience" is no argument. Strange Journey dungeon enemies are super fricking easy and the dungeons are just designed so you take the wrong path 20 times till you go the correct one. There are no puzzles, no gimmicks, absolutely nothing. It's sad that you completely lack critical thinking to notice such things. Must be the lead poisoning causing brain damage.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I LACK PATIENCE IS NOT AN ARGUMENT >I JUST THINK THE DUNGEONS ARE BORING
can't relate. sounds like you just lack patience.
If everyone's a god, no one is.
[...]
Bruh, let's not pretend SMT dungeons don't get absolutely stupid on purpose at points. The World of Sloth is right there.
yeah but we are talking about Strange Journey here. If you want to see some real bullshit look at Digital Devil Story Megami Tensei
11 months ago
Anonymous
>and the dungeons are just designed so you take the wrong path 20 times till you go the correct one
I like the traps in SJ and the mechanic of having to scan walls and shit like that make me feel like I'm actually exploring a new planet in enemy territory, I also like the enemy scan thing that warns you when you are about to have an encounter, way better than making them random.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I mean even if it's cool, it's literally the same for each dungeon till the end. It would not have killed them to do 1-2 more gimmicks. Also you getting the ability to see in the dark and then the next dungeon having again darkness that you can't see trough again is absolute bullshit and there is no excuse for that. No one, no matter how brain damaged can defend the darkness mechanic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
zoomer here, I love dungeon crawlers because walking around a dungeon is like comfy brain massage, its like walking outside except I dont have to go outside
Just saying "you lack patience" is no argument. Strange Journey dungeon enemies are super fricking easy and the dungeons are just designed so you take the wrong path 20 times till you go the correct one. There are no puzzles, no gimmicks, absolutely nothing. It's sad that you completely lack critical thinking to notice such things. Must be the lead poisoning causing brain damage.
strange journey is comfy and thats all that matters
Knowledge is knowledge. Ignorance makes you a lesser being.
Knowledge must also be met with some degree of skepticism. What is useful in some contexts and situations may turn out to be worse than useless in others. The rules of the garden are not the same as the rules in the wilderness. Plato's cave is not the world outside. The Demiurge's world is not the world of the pleroma.
>The serpent gave humanity knowledge. God damned humanity to eternal suffering.
God gifted them eternal bliss and humanity cast it aside on the temptation of an outside influence. Such is the purpose of commandments, so that we may not stray.
Can we at least agree that in every game when that obligatory part comes up with "le humans are evil too" it's done completely moronic, blatant and the humans act super irrational?
Gore-Taichou is the man, I won't hear any otherwise.
When that purpose is decided by somebody else it is meaningless. Nobody asked for life, you can't use that to inbebt them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
They were given something to do. And also were given a way out of that role, which is what they ultimately took. That's the thing of it, no? They had a job and expectations. They broke that contract, so they were cut loose into the world.
Look at it however you want. You can describe it in many ways, because Adam is said to have taken up many women of all kinds, including creatures, to create more children once he was cut loose. That's why the flood washed away those "abominations" as well. He became "free" but also had to suffer and toil in that freedom.
Basically, complaining that God gives free will in the first place is silly. But also, establishing that there are consequences for stepping out of line, they were told not to do it. What's the problem here?
Yes all those evil children that died of bone cancer.
No one is calling them evil. Their deaths and the tragedies of nature are part of the wheel of suffering we are bound to. We can assume in Eden, there would be no such suffering.
Just like jail
Jail is not a biblical concept from the Old Testament- the tendency was typically either death or being removed from the community, essentially set loose from the tribes and removed which aligns with the punishment of original sin. Prison is not an Abrahamic concept, the consequences were different. Slavery is something different as well in the Old Testament.
It was conditional eternal bliss. Play by the rules, you will continue to enjoy good things forever. We all have examples of this in our own lives. Things get off track, you break rules, you get in trouble.
Despite crosses showing up, Jesus never appears in any mainline SMT game. YHVH is the original portrayal of the Abrahamic God before the formation of Christianity and Islam.
Isn't Maria basically a false goddess or something that keeps the virtual world in check? I know she basically runs the Matrix in NINE while Yaldabaoth sits on his throne.
Can we at least agree that in every game when that obligatory part comes up with "le humans are evil too" it's done completely moronic, blatant and the humans act super irrational?
Satan was assigned to judge the old world and its denizens. After you were a moron and went Law, you purged the earth and as such YHVH was the last denizen and had to be judged.
The Great Will is the equivalent of a man children, obsesed with stealing a teenager magical powers
Nah, it's more "CAN YOU moronS STOP TRYING TO RUIN YOUR PLANETS; I WANT YOU TO HAVE SAPIENCE BUT YOU MAKE IT SO FRICKING HARD."
Dungeon crawlers are kinda shitty to be honest. I have played strange journey recently and the dungeons were just designed to waste your time. This genre should honestly be killed for good.
>Years of hearing "oh my god Sector E is L I T E R A L L Y R A P E" on the internet >Finally actually get around to playing SJ myself. >It's basically just four mini-dungeons on each floor, with generous shortcuts between each one.
What's the big deal?
I know the point of Law and Chaos is they both suck but it doesn't make for an interesting dilemma when every game you get offered the same non-choice between terrible options and the less bad option of neutral.
I liked the endings in tbh2 (even though tbh1 was better overall) because most of the routes have some kind of logic.
Sure, when asked by Steven (Nakajima but crippled) on whether your demon summoning program is good enough say no. That way he will upgrade it. Also law is the easiest route.
Ah sorry about that, I didn't read that correctly. Well for MT1 I would say that expect a lot of grinding before the first boss
even more than the first three dragon warrior games
Also the rotting sea of flames is the worst part of any megaten game I have ever played.
Yes, It's Charlie's exclusive dungeon in IF >I haven't played it yet but I've seen a bunch of people say it's kind of ass, why is that?
People overhate it, It's a solid 3.5/5, 4/5 for me >why is that?
the main bad points of this game are the bullshit comically slow dungeons, I can't say for Envy since Charlie skips it, but Wrath and Sloth are insane
the dungeon of sloth has you wait for 6 full moon phases to pass, so that students can dig a tunnel for you, even with speedup enabled, it took me walking around back and forth with charlie for over 2 hours to get through it.
The Wrath dungeon has this bullshit quest that completely fricks you over if you dont know about it (I didn't), you have to lift up a pot that's near the end of a teleporter maze dungeon, the npcs say something about needing "over 30 strenght" to lift it, I thought, well, my character has 39 strenght, no issue, but your character can't lift it, what you actually have to do is fuse a demon whose strenght and stamina stats together equal or surpass 30, also your partner leaves you at the start of the dungeon (It's obligatory to make him frick off so a woman can give you a pass for being alone) so that's annoying too
but, that's it, the rest of the game is really fun and engaging
It's more or less fine but the price tag is frankly atrocious considering what it is. The only thing of substance they added is the voice acting and the 'restored' Maniax content if you're into that (the West was damned to see only Dante in the game for a long time, until this release, at least officially). They barely did anything else, they even kept the OST compressed - it really does sound awful, especially considering the sleek look of the game. The only real effort was put in by the English translation team since there's a new translation now.
I bought it because I'm a moron but since I don't like the dub and keep it muted it really has nothing but manual skill selection, which 90% of the time isn't even needed because demons only really need like 4-5 skills to do their job, making perfect demons just the way you want tends to be overkill and just an exercise in vanity, which I suppose is still fun.
>all agree to stop krishna from using the egg and erasing humanity >erm guys actually I want to use the egg and erase humanity >WTF WHY ARE YOU GUYS TRYING TO STOP ME YOU'RE BETRAYING ME
Or they could learn to take a hint when I try to tell all of them to frick off.
11 months ago
Anonymous
that would require a well written game that doesn't shoehorn you into one shitty story regardless of what you do or say to anyone until the very end
11 months ago
Anonymous
Lmao I love this one >Treat Pascal like shit the whole way through >Refuse Nozomi's help >Try to get rid of Hallelujah >Be an butthole to Gaston >Refuse Skins' handshake at a junction when dude had every reason to murder me right then and there. >Ignore Toki >Overall just be an butthole at every chance the game lets me. >... >"Oh my god Nanashi I cant believe you would do this to us and humanity!"
11 months ago
Anonymous
>ignore Toki
That's the one thing I can't bring myself to do. She should have sided with me willingly.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The only thing I respect about Toki is that at least she had the sense that her irrational love for Nanashi didnt cloud her judgement. At least when you make her your goddess Dagda goes "lmao, did I even brainwash her?"
11 months ago
Anonymous
She's such a back and forth mess of a character. I can't say I have much respect for the version of her that suddenly decided she wanted to die out of nowhere, but world of str Toki I liked.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Is a pure world of STRgay, willing to go with whatever you do because you're the strongest motherfricker around >Tells you that she will follow you to the end no matter what >Ditches you as soon as you decide that maybe we should just remake the world because this one is too fricked up >Not even the idea of killing YHVH and taking his spot, the most world of STR thing to ever be planned, is enough to win her over
I kind of liked Toki's no bullshit approach to everything, but it was pretty hilarious how she immediately backtracked from her entire character for no good reason just to force you to fight her in the Anarchy route. Apoc had some wacky writing.
If demons are born from human mind then why the human route is the good one? Isn't humanity fricked to be ruled by demons eventualy? Humanity itself is moronic so even siding with them doesn't make sense. These games are honestly depressing.
Normally I always play JRPGs on hard because it's the only way for them to not be "mash A for 80 hours" games. But SJ Redux is too hard for me. My progress has stalled in that game twice early on because the game is just too hard. You win SJgays
What new ending could they possibly add to smtv? Nocturne added the Maniax ending because it was lacking a proper chaos ending, so should V add a hyper law end?
The last part of the game is the only part with actual story and it still isn't fleshed out enough, big wasted potential, the concept of a race to the throne is so cool but its executed so poorly
>so should V add a hyper law end
how would that even go? you already become god in all of the endings, and in law you basically do the brainwashing yourself and in neutral you do the genocide. Like how do you go more law then that?
The higher plain Lucifer described. Goko and his blue thot must come from there. Maybe take a visit to the great will or a higher existence close to it. Like passing though the (I think 7) Buddhist levels of enlightenment. I don't know what the goal should be though. No ending in V is really an ideal ending in any sense but it's probably better off that way. Although Nocturne's neutral ending is pretty ideal, V should maybe get something like that.
Did you forget having to kill Aogami and the MC has to remain isolated and alone for eternity? In Nocturne Demi went right back to his old life and is seen happily hanging out with his friends.
SMT's attempts at moral quandary are juvenile
too bad your mom loves my juvenile moral quandaries.
Nah, she loves big dick which sadly you can't provide.
He's not wrong. I'd know.
I will never understand old hag frickers.
It's just the Apollonian vs Dionysian morals. It's a pretty old thing, mostly made famous by Nietzsche.
mid wit
>M-MUH BIG WORDS
kek i can tell from ur post u have no sports no girls no nothing frick are you saying about your book shit I WANNA SEE CONSTANT CHAOS go read your books about le pirate le boring shit I WANNA SEE GUNS SHOOTING AND FRICKING HOT b***hES AND DRIVING FAST CARS your just a loser
you're*
Indeed. I find the whole series shallow and pedantic.
He deserves worse.
This thing looks so fricking cool in-game with the blinking eyes
This guy fricks, it's the only time in megaten I had to grind to level 90+ to be able to beat him on apocalypse difficulty.
God I miss Kaneko's art, look at what we have now instead of this.
That's a Doi design though.
baka
Satan did indeed give him what he deserved.
idk man, he's kind of a dick, even in source material in the Old Testament. its implied SMT universes frick with deities and causes them to act out of character
Yes.
Chaoschads how come we are right every single time?
you aren't
>chaos rep is a guy in a suit
>law rep looks like a biker
i love SMT2
SMT1 and 2 together make up the greatest story in any video game
>Nooo I don't want to be forced to do stuff by this guy stronger than me! Let's kill him!
>Okay now that he's dead and I'm the strongest guy, there's gonna be some new rules around here!
Chaos is just the advent of new Law.
what if my rule is no rules
Nobody who has absolutely no interest in exercising authority or defining rules can have the power to be the strongest being.
But I beat the game
Yes but really he didn't have an other options on his list.
The real question is why does HE keep reviving him and letting him create lucy?
are the last bible games fun
pokemon clone with a child friendly SMT plot
apparently not bad and gets better by the time you hit 3
I read that all otherworldy beings are called demons in SMT and that demons are just as nuanced as humans personality wise. Is it true?
basically yeah
kinda, depends on the game, some demons are just moronic but I guess some humans are too
In most SMT games demons have a huge hateboner for humans and just hold moronic speeches about how shitty humanity is each time you talk with them, at least for 95% of the time. So no, demons are not really portrayed that nuanced, even though in theory they probably are.
I got pretty sick of this in Strange Journey. V seems better about it
Varies a lot even in the mainline games, but yeah demons is just the term for any otherworldy being because there is folklore/alien demons
they should be, as all things it depends on the writer. for the most part demons think humans are weakass pussies and either want to kill them, fight them, or just white knight them to the point of smothering cause they're law gays
Yeah. The demon thing is a riff on the word Daemon originally being used to refer to anything supernatural but eventually being used to refer to evil spirits
But they are called akuma in japanese so why would the origin of the word demon even matter?
悪魔 literally has 悪 "evil" in it.
I just pointed out that the word origin of demon is completely irrelevant since it's just a translation of akuma.
Ancient Greek "daemon" just means powerful entity, it has no good or ban connotation.
Are demons in SMT born from the collective unconscious or do some of them predate humanity? Did the stories create them or did they create the stories? Or is it some fricked causality/both/neither?
Changes in each game, SMT:SJ has it that Demons were mopping about until YHVH got powerful enough to seal them all in the Schwarzwelt. SMT:IV has it so that demons are created from humanity observing things and creating demons from it.
Depends on the game, but everything you just said exists in the series on some level.
>he thinks YHVH is literal God
lmao
>90% of SMT games
>GOD IS BAD AND LUCIFER IS GOOD AND IF YOU SIDE WITH GOOD YOU ARE A BRAINWASHED SLAVE
Lucifer is only good if you're a chaosgay, moron
and law is never good, just like religion is evil irl too
the GOOD route is always neutral, in every game
>centrist
>good
Neutral is not centrist. It's "humanity frick yeah, suck my dick angels and demons" route. That's why it's kino each and every time.
I don't care about real life politics because that's normalgay garbage that only wageslaves care about but in SMT, yes, centrism is always the moral "good", of course depending in your life philosophy you can see law as good or chaos as good, but the main route is always Neutral, it's the "humanity goes back to the way it was before" path, Law normally means 1984 while Chaos normally means anarchism and sucking demon wiener
this changes through the games, but the "good" route is always neutral
>Chaos normally means anarchism
I don't see the issue
It always no matter what leads to the strongest demons ruling over their own turf. So you either get eaten by a bigger dog or live subjugated under a powerful demon, which is pretty much just law.
Me neither I was just stating facts however most normalgays would disagree that its a good thing
damn this art is nice, is there a version for each character?
From the same artist, unfortunately not
https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/95009257
I'd love it if someone drew and image of all the chaos reps together, neutral and law reps too
The issue comes from Chaos ultimately being Law for Narcissists. Chaosgays don't care about other people, just their own self-image and the idea of being on top. Which just leads to a conga line of backstabbing until you end up with a centralized figure who's too big to fail AKA Law.
yes
>100% of SMT games
>Law and Chaos le bad
>Neutral le good
Yes.
They have a funny way of showing it considering most Chaos endings immediately create a shithole where demons devour humans.
>might makes right!
Would mean a lot if the demon summoning program wasn't so rare.
not every smt game is nocturne you know
>LUCIFER IS GOOD
inoperable and terminal
Frick angels
Frick demons
Achieve the peak of human potential
Am working through SMT SJ now.
If God wanted us to be on team angel we'd still have Nephilim. Human route all the way. I just need to resume the damn game...
>Nephilim
Nephilim have nothing to do with the Watchers. The Books just tell you they also were around
Is there a single decent law route or law representative in any SMT game? I played maybe now half of the SMT games and they were all completely moronic.
tbh Law is pretty cool
The 12-winged Mandala throne is super cool but why did they decide to make Lucifer an alien
I know he's supposed to a fake but still I'm just curious as to why alien
because Doi had to salvage the shitty guest designs to keep it consistent with 4
How is reinventing the world so suffering and death don't exist an edgelord fantasy?
Dagda didn't fix shit, all he did was make a YHVH that likes him. Nanashi basically gets to run train on a humanity that's been stripped of Perception.
Dagda's entire plan is to turn humans into a god-human hybrid free of dependence and the mortal frailty that yhvh imposed on people to continue the cycles. And don't try to suggest that being able to magically rewrite reality just by being wrong about nature is a good thing.
>But muh humanity
Boosh. We already saw humans who were able to climb into divinity on their own via Maitreya and Krishna. Dagda only had one goal and that was to strip *record scratch* of his throne and go back to being the rain.
So what? You want to take the hard way just because? Dagda is offering humanity a gift that would free us as well as himself, you'd be a fool to turn it down.
If everyone's a god, no one is.
Bruh, let's not pretend SMT dungeons don't get absolutely stupid on purpose at points. The World of Sloth is right there.
Exactly. Nobody has power over anyone else, and yhvh's rules don't apply either. It's true freedom.
"true freedom" is nothing but abstraction. Without any reason to come together, mankind becomes monoliths.
All you did was make Musubi.
If dependence is the only reason you think people come together, you're a parasite with nothing to offer.
It ultimately comes down to that because there's only so much a single person can do. And so in order to gain and make up that difference, we cede part of that freedom in order to create what we could not alone. And in time those systems of give and take, action and consequence will form Law.
No the Garden was basically looking after Adam. To the point where despite loving Lilith, he couldn't imagine life outside of it even with her. And once he ate the fruit with Eve, the two would know toil for the first time ever.
When god created eve for adam, it was not because he needed her for survival's sake. It was for the warmth of companionship. The negative repercussions dependency tries to avoid are only half the equation, there is a positive net gain if you're with the right people that though you can survive without it would lead to suboptimal quality of life. If humanity is even slightly worthwhile, we'll be able to find value in companionship regardless of need. If not, Musubi is what we deserve.
The problem is that the idea of becoming God is anathema to that companionship. If one is capable of all things, they ultimately stand alone on their own plane. No one stands with them but before or for them. We see this with YHVH where despite how much the angels sing of him, they are ultimately either mouthpieces or gofers for him. Even Metatron, the highest of high, is still nothing more than a loudspeaker.
That's only because he has no true equals. Dagda's world isn't one with only one god, but a world of many gods. Like in any polytheist pantheon, you still see the gods coming together in companionship and even fricking and making new gods.
You're confusing companionship with hierarchy which undermines your argument for Dagda's world being "better" something fierce. Gods in other pantheons aren't friends, if anything they're constantly climbing over one another for a higher position. We've seen it with Set and Horus, Loki and Baldr, Typhon and Zeus and so many more instances of it in SMT alone. It didn't solve anything, it just replaced Perception with humanity themselves if they don't all corral into their own personal dream bubbles.
I'm not confusing anything, the two are very related to each other. Only one can stand at the superlative top, and being that one means you're alone. And yes, other pantheons are full of butthole gods, but they were demons invented by humanity's perception not actual stand alone beings.
All Dagda wanted was to be able to turn back into wind. He says multiple times he doesn't give a shit about humans and your "friends" are just a waste of oxygen. You literally got tricked by the most selfish loser in the series.
He makes good of his end of the bargain. He even gives you a waifu through which to reincarnate the souls that you bring with into the new world.
Yeah he got what he wanted and let you be god as thanks for helping him out. He doesn't give a shit about humans, their souls, or whatever you decide to do with them, and given what an edgelord the game has you act like to get there, I think it's safe to assume it's not going to be anything good.
The game lets you be whatever you want. You can be a saint the whole game and still side with Dagda.
Name one edgy thing you have to do that isn't "kill the people who just turned on you and are trying to kill you" and "kill the people who Stephen sicced on you for funsies"
Dagda was right and also has the only good English dub out of every Atlus game so far.
But YHVH's voice was awesome in 4A as well.
>Route split in every mainline Megaten game
>Hardly anything changes but you skipping a boss or two based on your alignment.
>Meanwhile the 8th days in tbh OC actually diverge from each other.
Devil Survivor was too good for this sinful earth.
Devil survivor is too slow. The biggest sin for a SRPG is being slow.
tbh even let's you choose your brand of Chaos in Naoya's 8th day. Are you in it for total domination or for mankind's freedom.
Same with law. Be a benevolent savior of mankind, or a righteous subjugative ruler who kills sinners. Both tbhs did just a little more with the alignments that make them actually feel worthwhile.
I could go with either Naoya or Amane and I'd still feel completely justified in doing so, that's how fricking good the alignments and their reps were in tbh1. What a fricking great game.
Even if tbh 2 was an eva ripoff that did away with most of the good atmospheric stuff from the first game, it was still a pretty damn good game as well. tbh truly was too good for this shitty timeline.
SMT2
>He doesn't think nuking every living being on the face of the planet is a good thing
Pussy
Good or bad is irrelevant, it's just a boring outcome, like expected of the law route.
>Nuking Earth from space and killing god is boring
Of all the things you could use to shit on 2's law route, boring isn't one of them.
Come on, nuking earth and killing god are pretty much the two most boring outcomes of any story.
Yes it is. Wiping the slate clean so the protag and his love interest can become Adam and Eve is incredibly boring. Hell, Last Bible already did that ending.
Devil Survivor's law ending is generally considered to be one of the better ones.
Hard to have a good law ending when law is always about subjugating human will. Even tbh's law ending has the cast raise numerous concerns on how the angels are handling human punishment, and needing to make a deal with them so they don't immediately kill every human with that distorted heart symbol.
Why are angels even killing humans when all of them come with mind rape powers?
>Grey morality
>dude God is le EVIL look at how cool Lucifer is
Meh
That said I look forward to the next installment and spinoffs
>goes chaos route
>wtf why is lucifer a good guy
If YHVH is supposed to be so great then why is he bald?
checkmate lawgays
There's unironically a canonical explanation
nta, post it
According to artbook it's the face of Adam, the first man.
Absolutely
>turns SMT1's hero into a statue and curses Aleph to live forever as Hijiri
he deserved worse
Anon, I...
SMT 1 Hero's corpse is inside a cave.
>SMT 1 Hero's corpse is inside a cave.
when is this implied and if that's true why does his statue cry
Neutral is the most inoffensive option as most of the mainline games have a fairly cyclic view of whatever the big apocalyptic conflict is most of the time neutral is just ending the troubles for now and hoping humanity can sever themselves from the demon nonsense so the world doesn't have to be saved again.
>le christianism is...le bad
>le demons are actually...le good
>beat the game by having demons help you
>"WHAT??? I CAN'T BETRAY MY FRIENDS AND SERVE LE GOD???????????????"
>actually, demons are the friendly good guys and the christians are the bad ones
how original.
If you actually played the game you would know they are both meant to be the bad guys.
There are good and evil demons, and good and evil christians, are you moronic or pretending?
most of the time both are evil btw
>a-actually they don't say all of them are bad, just that the god they worship is bad, that heaven actually sucks and that destroying all demons is a bad thing!
You didn't play the game at all because the actual angels who worship a god they created out of their good will aren't evil
leave the thread
Demons are never presented as friendly.
have you played any SMT game? this is an impressively moronic hill to die on
>"WHAT??? I CAN'T BETRAY MY FRIENDS AND SERVE LE GOD???????????????"
>He's never played Megami Tensei II
The serpent gave humanity knowledge. God damned humanity to eternal suffering.
>Actually, knowledge of sin is actually a good thing
>Being pure and innocent is le bad, actually
Knowledge is knowledge. Ignorance makes you a lesser being.
There is nothing in this world better than knowledge, and thus, there is nothing in this world more evil than preventing people from acquiring such things
>NOOOOOOOOOOO I JUST NEED TO KNOW ABOUT KILLING AND RAPE!!!! IT IS LE IMPORTANT KNOWLEDGE!!! INNOCENCE IS LE BAD!!! S
yes, I love rape
which megaten girl would you rape Gankerros?
I want Chie to galactic punt me in the balls
Based Chie enjoyer
the only correct opinion here
I feel bad for you zoomies who got all of your receptors cooked off from tiktok and can't have patience for anything that lasts longer than five seconds.
Just saying "you lack patience" is no argument. Strange Journey dungeon enemies are super fricking easy and the dungeons are just designed so you take the wrong path 20 times till you go the correct one. There are no puzzles, no gimmicks, absolutely nothing. It's sad that you completely lack critical thinking to notice such things. Must be the lead poisoning causing brain damage.
>I LACK PATIENCE IS NOT AN ARGUMENT
>I JUST THINK THE DUNGEONS ARE BORING
can't relate. sounds like you just lack patience.
yeah but we are talking about Strange Journey here. If you want to see some real bullshit look at Digital Devil Story Megami Tensei
>and the dungeons are just designed so you take the wrong path 20 times till you go the correct one
I like the traps in SJ and the mechanic of having to scan walls and shit like that make me feel like I'm actually exploring a new planet in enemy territory, I also like the enemy scan thing that warns you when you are about to have an encounter, way better than making them random.
I mean even if it's cool, it's literally the same for each dungeon till the end. It would not have killed them to do 1-2 more gimmicks. Also you getting the ability to see in the dark and then the next dungeon having again darkness that you can't see trough again is absolute bullshit and there is no excuse for that. No one, no matter how brain damaged can defend the darkness mechanic.
zoomer here, I love dungeon crawlers because walking around a dungeon is like comfy brain massage, its like walking outside except I dont have to go outside
strange journey is comfy and thats all that matters
Being aware of does not equate to being guilty of.
Knowledge must also be met with some degree of skepticism. What is useful in some contexts and situations may turn out to be worse than useless in others. The rules of the garden are not the same as the rules in the wilderness. Plato's cave is not the world outside. The Demiurge's world is not the world of the pleroma.
That's called context, which is no less an aspect of knowledge than the actual focus of the data itself.
No, I acknowledged context.
Wisdom is knowledge+context.
Wisdom is being able to use knowledge properly, which requires context but is not the same thing as simply being them both together.
>There is nothing in this world better than knowledge
except wisdom
>The serpent gave humanity knowledge. God damned humanity to eternal suffering.
God gifted them eternal bliss and humanity cast it aside on the temptation of an outside influence. Such is the purpose of commandments, so that we may not stray.
Gore-Taichou is the man, I won't hear any otherwise.
God gifted them slavery as his eternal gardeners.
In exchange for receiving life in the first place.
Do you not take pride in a sense of purpose?
>Do you not take pride in a sense of purpose?
When that purpose is decided by somebody else it is meaningless. Nobody asked for life, you can't use that to inbebt them.
They were given something to do. And also were given a way out of that role, which is what they ultimately took. That's the thing of it, no? They had a job and expectations. They broke that contract, so they were cut loose into the world.
Look at it however you want. You can describe it in many ways, because Adam is said to have taken up many women of all kinds, including creatures, to create more children once he was cut loose. That's why the flood washed away those "abominations" as well. He became "free" but also had to suffer and toil in that freedom.
Basically, complaining that God gives free will in the first place is silly. But also, establishing that there are consequences for stepping out of line, they were told not to do it. What's the problem here?
No one is calling them evil. Their deaths and the tragedies of nature are part of the wheel of suffering we are bound to. We can assume in Eden, there would be no such suffering.
Jail is not a biblical concept from the Old Testament- the tendency was typically either death or being removed from the community, essentially set loose from the tribes and removed which aligns with the punishment of original sin. Prison is not an Abrahamic concept, the consequences were different. Slavery is something different as well in the Old Testament.
clearly it was not eternal bliss if they can still get tempted
It was conditional eternal bliss. Play by the rules, you will continue to enjoy good things forever. We all have examples of this in our own lives. Things get off track, you break rules, you get in trouble.
They defied the Lord. That's the sin.
Yes all those evil children that died of bone cancer.
Just like jail
YHVH is the israeli version of god. Ironically Satan is more like the Christian version.
Despite crosses showing up, Jesus never appears in any mainline SMT game. YHVH is the original portrayal of the Abrahamic God before the formation of Christianity and Islam.
You can get jesus armor in smt1 though
His mother actually shows up but not him.
Isn't Maria basically a false goddess or something that keeps the virtual world in check? I know she basically runs the Matrix in NINE while Yaldabaoth sits on his throne.
Yeah and YHVH is also a fake god that constantly annoys the real god (pic rel)
>Cogito.
>Don't.
>Ergo.
>STOP.
>Sum.
>Why do you keep eating the fruit of knowledge knowing this is the only outcome?!
Jesus does exist in Persona
>Messiah
>Jesus
I will slap you with my Torah, you little shit.
I love the Demiurge so much bros..
Can we at least agree that in every game when that obligatory part comes up with "le humans are evil too" it's done completely moronic, blatant and the humans act super irrational?
my son works at Atlus and he said next year we'll have a SMT If... remake with social links and the velvet room
How would social links work exactly when you barely interact with the other characters?
Every Charlie line is like doing Heroine, that's why they don't talk too much
That looks pretty gay, whatever that is.
Why did Satan turn on YHVH at the end of SMT 2?
Great Will hijack to clean up the last demons around and let Aleph go off and create a humanity that doesn't create an Apocalypse ever other eon
The Great Will is the equivalent of a man children, obsesed with stealing a teenager magical powers
Satan was assigned to judge the old world and its denizens. After you were a moron and went Law, you purged the earth and as such YHVH was the last denizen and had to be judged.
Nah, it's more "CAN YOU moronS STOP TRYING TO RUIN YOUR PLANETS; I WANT YOU TO HAVE SAPIENCE BUT YOU MAKE IT SO FRICKING HARD."
shin megami tensei is for men persona is for babies
I like both and am a manbaby, can confirm
>SMT is for BOIS
>Persona is for WOMEN
>Jackbros is for MEN
Dungeon crawlers are kinda shitty to be honest. I have played strange journey recently and the dungeons were just designed to waste your time. This genre should honestly be killed for good.
>Years of hearing "oh my god Sector E is L I T E R A L L Y R A P E" on the internet
>Finally actually get around to playing SJ myself.
>It's basically just four mini-dungeons on each floor, with generous shortcuts between each one.
What's the big deal?
Yeah it was overrated. I didn't struggle that bad with it when I finally played SJ
I've played enough etrian odyssey to think this isn't that bad.
luv me sixth strata
No wonder first world fertility is collapsing when the males subject themselves volunteerily to this CBT.
counterpoint:
It's comfy and that's all that matters in a video game
I know the point of Law and Chaos is they both suck but it doesn't make for an interesting dilemma when every game you get offered the same non-choice between terrible options and the less bad option of neutral.
I liked the endings in tbh2 (even though tbh1 was better overall) because most of the routes have some kind of logic.
I'm going to embark on my journey of becoming Akemi Nakajima (finally playing megami tensei 1)
anything I should know?
Recruit Cerberus and have a pencil and graph sheet on hand
Sure, when asked by Steven (Nakajima but crippled) on whether your demon summoning program is good enough say no. That way he will upgrade it. Also law is the easiest route.
Megami Tensei, no SMT. Stephen didn't existed yet
Ah sorry about that, I didn't read that correctly. Well for MT1 I would say that expect a lot of grinding before the first boss
even more than the first three dragon warrior games
Also the rotting sea of flames is the worst part of any megaten game I have ever played.
Any reason in particular why you are playing OG and not Kyuyaku? You really want the purist experience?
bros im not gonna lie this game is making me want to kill myself
since people are posting dungeons, here comes KINO
1/2
2/2
This is If right? I haven't played it yet but I've seen a bunch of people say it's kind of ass, why is that?
Yes, It's Charlie's exclusive dungeon in IF
>I haven't played it yet but I've seen a bunch of people say it's kind of ass, why is that?
People overhate it, It's a solid 3.5/5, 4/5 for me
>why is that?
the main bad points of this game are the bullshit comically slow dungeons, I can't say for Envy since Charlie skips it, but Wrath and Sloth are insane
the dungeon of sloth has you wait for 6 full moon phases to pass, so that students can dig a tunnel for you, even with speedup enabled, it took me walking around back and forth with charlie for over 2 hours to get through it.
The Wrath dungeon has this bullshit quest that completely fricks you over if you dont know about it (I didn't), you have to lift up a pot that's near the end of a teleporter maze dungeon, the npcs say something about needing "over 30 strenght" to lift it, I thought, well, my character has 39 strenght, no issue, but your character can't lift it, what you actually have to do is fuse a demon whose strenght and stamina stats together equal or surpass 30, also your partner leaves you at the start of the dungeon (It's obligatory to make him frick off so a woman can give you a pass for being alone) so that's annoying too
but, that's it, the rest of the game is really fun and engaging
You are like a little baby, now watch this
Werdna did nothing wrong.
no
Good fricking thing i saved all the enemy repellant bells for the basilica. Can't imagine doing 8 floors with random encounters pissing in.
>nerve shells
>auto
>fall into a coma
So hard.
fedora core game series
>atheism is bad because redditors are moronic
the opposite and everything in between actually
I mean, the israeli religions really aren't very good in the first place.
How's the Steam version of Nocturne?
It's more or less fine but the price tag is frankly atrocious considering what it is. The only thing of substance they added is the voice acting and the 'restored' Maniax content if you're into that (the West was damned to see only Dante in the game for a long time, until this release, at least officially). They barely did anything else, they even kept the OST compressed - it really does sound awful, especially considering the sleek look of the game. The only real effort was put in by the English translation team since there's a new translation now.
I bought it because I'm a moron but since I don't like the dub and keep it muted it really has nothing but manual skill selection, which 90% of the time isn't even needed because demons only really need like 4-5 skills to do their job, making perfect demons just the way you want tends to be overkill and just an exercise in vanity, which I suppose is still fun.
you can change it to the japanese voices
I don't want any voices.
Also they re-did all the little voices and combat barks demons do in combat which triggers my autism.
As a working actor I'm shocked at how good Tamers' text to speech is for actual acting quality. It's somehow awesome.
Overpriced
it was being sold for $16 on gamebillet during march
Isn't he actually not really God or something?
Friendly reminder that the author of the original Digital Devil Story novels has confirmed that Law is the best alignment.
>author of the original Digital Devil Story novels
That person stopped being relevant to the franchise as early as SMT 1.
Kill your friends... and use them as fertilizer, kid.
>friends
>stabs you in the back immediately for not joining their cause
>all agree to stop krishna from using the egg and erasing humanity
>erm guys actually I want to use the egg and erase humanity
>WTF WHY ARE YOU GUYS TRYING TO STOP ME YOU'RE BETRAYING ME
every thread
>all agree to stop krishna from using the egg and erasing humanity
Not a single on of them asked my opinion on the matter.
shouldn't have been born a mute moron then
Or they could learn to take a hint when I try to tell all of them to frick off.
that would require a well written game that doesn't shoehorn you into one shitty story regardless of what you do or say to anyone until the very end
Lmao I love this one
>Treat Pascal like shit the whole way through
>Refuse Nozomi's help
>Try to get rid of Hallelujah
>Be an butthole to Gaston
>Refuse Skins' handshake at a junction when dude had every reason to murder me right then and there.
>Ignore Toki
>Overall just be an butthole at every chance the game lets me.
>...
>"Oh my god Nanashi I cant believe you would do this to us and humanity!"
>ignore Toki
That's the one thing I can't bring myself to do. She should have sided with me willingly.
The only thing I respect about Toki is that at least she had the sense that her irrational love for Nanashi didnt cloud her judgement. At least when you make her your goddess Dagda goes "lmao, did I even brainwash her?"
She's such a back and forth mess of a character. I can't say I have much respect for the version of her that suddenly decided she wanted to die out of nowhere, but world of str Toki I liked.
>Is a pure world of STRgay, willing to go with whatever you do because you're the strongest motherfricker around
>Tells you that she will follow you to the end no matter what
>Ditches you as soon as you decide that maybe we should just remake the world because this one is too fricked up
>Not even the idea of killing YHVH and taking his spot, the most world of STR thing to ever be planned, is enough to win her over
I kind of liked Toki's no bullshit approach to everything, but it was pretty hilarious how she immediately backtracked from her entire character for no good reason just to force you to fight her in the Anarchy route. Apoc had some wacky writing.
If demons are born from human mind then why the human route is the good one? Isn't humanity fricked to be ruled by demons eventualy? Humanity itself is moronic so even siding with them doesn't make sense. These games are honestly depressing.
not every game is 4
personally I think 4's demon mythos is stupid and like them way more as primordial creatures that exist on their own, like strange journey
Agreed. Persona should frick off and stay in it's own series.
Are you getting it mixed up? In 4 they are creatures from the expanse, in SJ they arise from some human mind bullshit
in 4 they're created by mankind's "observation", which is basically the same human mind bullshit
Apocalypsis is the one that has Stephen go with the whole "Observation" thing.
Why does this franchise have the best memes?
It's already enough that we get to have the best games
I'm just glad we're still getting original meme content
Honestly I'd just punch god in the face for being an butthole
Aleph > Kazuya > Nahobino > Nanashi > Flynn > Demifiend
Any SMT game where you need to manage demon alignment to be effective is a no in my book. Sorry SJ fans, sorry snes fans
>he can't commit to his alignment
spoiled new-age gamers are the worst
I go full chaos team in every game I play
love you Shiva my babyboy
Normally I always play JRPGs on hard because it's the only way for them to not be "mash A for 80 hours" games. But SJ Redux is too hard for me. My progress has stalled in that game twice early on because the game is just too hard. You win SJgays
expert is the way redux is meant to be played, git gud or suffer the embarrassment of realizing the game is too easy on normal
What new ending could they possibly add to smtv? Nocturne added the Maniax ending because it was lacking a proper chaos ending, so should V add a hyper law end?
SMTV doesn't need and wouldn't benefit from a new ending. It needs a redo
>waste all the lore building and characterization it already has
Why? Because you didn't like it?
Wow, all ten minutes?
The last part of the game is the only part with actual story and it still isn't fleshed out enough, big wasted potential, the concept of a race to the throne is so cool but its executed so poorly
>so should V add a hyper law end
how would that even go? you already become god in all of the endings, and in law you basically do the brainwashing yourself and in neutral you do the genocide. Like how do you go more law then that?
The higher plain Lucifer described. Goko and his blue thot must come from there. Maybe take a visit to the great will or a higher existence close to it. Like passing though the (I think 7) Buddhist levels of enlightenment. I don't know what the goal should be though. No ending in V is really an ideal ending in any sense but it's probably better off that way. Although Nocturne's neutral ending is pretty ideal, V should maybe get something like that.
>V should maybe get something like that.
I am pretty sure that's the true neutral ending.
Did you forget having to kill Aogami and the MC has to remain isolated and alone for eternity? In Nocturne Demi went right back to his old life and is seen happily hanging out with his friends.
clown girl pussy am i right
Will Lucifer, Demi-fiend, and the rest of the army all tear each other apart once they kill the Greater Will? That's all that keeps them united.
You find out what happened after that ending in smtv.
2's OST was mostly lame and repetitive but it had the best chaos theme in the franchise
It has the most kino overworld theme of all time
There are plenty of good tracks, the only one I just don't care about is the major boss theme.
Christcucks are a fricking plague. Thank god Japan killed all of these wienerroaches and didn't let the cancer take root and fester.
Isn't there a smt game where they mention this event? or an interview? I'm pretty sure I saw it somewhere
Upvoted
coping
Reminder that this whole series started because that b***h Kyoko made Nakajima get beaten up for no reason
the moral of the series is: don't trust women
Why does God look like Martian Manhunter?