Did piracy really kill the Dreamcast?
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Did piracy really kill the Dreamcast?
Did piracy really kill the Dreamcast?
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No Sega killed the Dreamcast
Sega of Japan killed the brand BEFORE Dreamcast ever came out.
Mostly this, yes. After the CD, 32X and Saturn, there were few Sega loyalists left. They had milked the sonic franchise too hard and abandoned too many others. The Dreamcast may have let sega survive if microsoft never entered the picture, but they quit before then anyway. Probably a smart move to go out and save some money then before they were completely smothered.
>Probably a smart move to go out and save some money then before they were completely smothered.
Nibba Sega declared bankruptcy. The wealthy CEO donated his entire family fortune to save the company and pay off the debt (800 million dollars of debt).
I've always wondered why he bothered to save them. Either Sega must have been in real deep with that Yakuza shit or the "muh honor" meme about the Japanese is more real than I thought.
The dude literally died two months after the system was killed off.
Didn't he have a family, some favorite charity, possibly even a church or temple that he could give the money to? I can't think of a dumber place to put your money than Sega in 2000.
3/4th of his "donation" was waiving the debt Sega owed him. Debt that if Sega went bust they weren't going to pay anyway. Mind, this dude was the Japanese equivalent of Warren Buffet, owns banks and megacorps and shit, he wasn't "just Sega's CEO".
His loan was to cover other debts and loans. Sega almost saved itself after this too. Had the Dreamcast gotten 20-25% of the market it would have been seen as viable and continued. Considering what a "failure" it was, they came close.
This is exactly why they gave up. The market penetration was too low in the face of bigger better things. Video games are a "club" or "team sport" type business. You have to get people to join your team to sell them your products. The ambition of sega was more it's downfall. It didn't try to cater to it's fans, they always tried to get everyone. If they aimed lower, and thus reduced their develop and manufacturing costs, the Dreamcast could have been successful. Plenty of companies survive with 10%+ of the market. Not at similar costs of companies with 40-60% of the market though.
specifically SEGA north american division
For the last time, each Dreamcast owner had around 9 original games.
DC was killed by Sega's frick ups on the Saturn and Ps2's hype train.
And that would have been all they ever would have bought from that point forward due to piracy.
And any new owners would have bought zero new games.
This cope.
It's logic. The only hope would be to release a Dreamcast which had new piracy protection.
Which they actually did, but already a huge chunk of the install base is never going to buy a new game again.
And it would only be a matter of time before the new piracy protection was cracked. With so many DC owners having pirated games the people who bought the new system version would be hyper-aware of the concept and seek out boot discs if they needed them.
>it would only be a matter of time before the new piracy protection was cracked
Meanwhile in the real world, 23 years later...
No push since there's plenty of already cracked dreamcasts to go around.
They ran out of money, including many millions that were bequeathed to them by their dead CEO.
No, it was the upcoming release of the PS2
lack of DVD support killed it
Don't worry.
Remind me of big white PSX showcase
Which is why the Wii was unsuccessful haha
By 2006 everybody already had a dvd player so it didn't matter. Most people didn't have a DVD player in 2000 which made the PS2 a much better value than the dreamcast.
You’re forgetting that the Dreamcast launched in Japan almost a full year earlier in fall 1998. By the time it came out in North America, it was already aging tech. Including DVD support wasn’t really feasible.
I'm not saying it was feasible for Sega to add DVD support, I'm saying it was doomed when the PS2 was announced. The Dreamcast could not succeed because Sega was forced to push the console out too early.
Not really no, the ps2 having better games is what killed it. Right out of the gate the games were markedly more impressive. Some people are still in denial about this.
The PS2’s day one launch lineup was actually pretty weak, but the hype train behind it was unstoppable.
No, people and idiots pretend it was weak but it was an excellent line up. SSX being the competitor to Trickstyle forever made the Dreamcast look poor. Tekken Tag obliterated VF3tb, nothing was as big and open as smuggler's run.
The meme doesn't add up unless you only play big meme titles.
Lol K.Thor Jenson is also an idiot, FF8 was released in 99
>SSX being the competitor to Trickstyle forever made the Dreamcast look poor. Tekken Tag obliterated VF3tb
Those games weren't even released on the same year.
Exactly. People saw the leap and didn't look back. "If sega can do this for 200, I wonder what playstation can do!" was the prevailing thought, and it paid to wait.
I honestly don’t think DVD support would’ve helped that much anyway. The PlayStation brand was so much stronger than Sega by 2000 and they probably couldn’t have afforded to take the up front loss per console sale like Sony could.
VMU scarcity certainly didn't help. I couldn't find a single one for months after I got it on Christmas.
Being ahead of its time killed it.
it was simultaneously ahead and behind. the previous generation had dual analog sticks, and wtf is that cable coming out the wrong side of the controller?
>the previous generation had dual analog sticks,
Dual-analog controller for the PS1 was released in April 1997, the controller design for Dreamcast was likely already finalized at that point.
Unironically too ahead of their time for their own good. The frickin Nomad could be connected to the TV and played with proper(wired) controllers. Frickers literally had their own Switch back in the early 90s
No, Piracy killed the Famicom Disk System.
>The average, if not every, Dreamcast owner had up to 9, mmmmmaybe 10 original games.
Eh, where'd you hear that? Not every game was nearly as expensive to make as the Shenmue series.
>eh
Kys homosexual
What do you have against canadians
For me, it's vastly improved it
Nah twas playan too much pso and payan by teh minutes which equals the cost of a new dc every month if you want
No, I killed it. Just for the lulz.
did OP the homosexual mother drop him on his dead when he was a toddler?
dude wtf are you saying
No, it just couldn't keep up with the PS2. With how well the PS1 did, many people prefered the PS2, and most titles that the Dreamcast had were on the PS2 as well, so there was little point in buying a Dreamcast.
Most dreamcast ports sucked on other consoles. If you were a gamer you knew the dreamcast was superior.
ports in general, don't forget that the dc has an amazing res, analog triggers, vmu and vga
Why is the DC version so much clearer than the other versions? Is this the power of VGA?
its the power of the dreamcast, the real gaming console
>amazing res
Xbox looks better, and let's be real, that was the final game for Segoyim.
>analog triggers
The sharpest, most uncomfortable ones in the history of gaming.
>vmu
A meme at best, and impossible to find for basically a year after launch. Have fun saving your game, Segoy!
>cope
i won't even bother
I accept your concession, then.
>a meme at best
I don't get the hate. The vmu was neat and had a lot of potential. Just because nobody thought about it when making games is not the vmus fault.
Did you play the Wii U? Because that's the "potential" you're talking about.
I own a Wii u and once again there was a lot of untapped potential. You still haven't explained why you hate it. What next you will bring up sales? I don't care about that.
I'm not going to bring up sales, I'm going to bring up zero worthwhile uses of the gamepad. The best you've got is minigames in the Nintendoland proof of concept.
That's on the game developers not giving a frick not the vmu. I posted an example above of the vmu being put to good use and there are countless other ways it could have been put to good use. If you can't see that you need to get a clue.
You're a larping moron. If they didn't capitalize on the Wii U, the technology was always worthless. Go ahead, name a single use of the technology that hasn't been tried.
vmu is great i don't know whats the problem here
It has its advantages besides going inside the controller rather than puttiing it in a slot made for said VMUs. One is the many minigames depending on what save file the game is for. Still doesn't excuse the fricking connection cable being on the BACK OF THE CONTROLLER INSTEAD OF DIAGNALLY UNDER or something like that!
>Still doesn't excuse the fricking connection cable being on the BACK OF THE CONTROLLER INSTEAD OF DIAGNALLY UNDER or something like that!
not an issue, you can clip the cord on the back of the controller
>the technology was always worthless.
Thats where you're wrong and I've already posted an example of it being put to good use you're just too stupid to realise whats going on in that image. You're defending laziness here.
bros... i want my mp3vmu
jk aside you can't say the vmu is not cool because it doesn't have any cons
no games
it has games
128k of storage
Haha yes let’s have an online console with DLC and shit. Surely the Zip drive will come to save the day.
actually stupid.
How many songs can one store in 128KB?
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPUH
Who the duck plays Resident Evil with lights on???
>Just because nobody thought about it when making games is not the vmus fault.
It's Sega's fault for replacing the 2 extra buttons the saturn controlled had with something most devs wouldn't even touch.
>The vmu was neat and had a lot of potential.
battery life was too shit to ever be good
While the BEEP sucked I am referring to the possibilities the VMU opened up for gameplay.
>The vmu was neat and had a lot of potential.
It sucked. just say it out loud already.
it cannot suck because it's a bonus thing that has literally no cons, I'd rather have a memory card like the vmu than have a normal memory card, you're just seething at this point
>it cannot suck because it's a bonus thing
This shit is not free. Better allocate these resources on an extra analog stick, better controller design, dvd disc driver or better hardware features.
the dc controller is fine, and if you want to play fps games you should use the keyboard and mouse
>Have to buy ANOTHER controller to play a game
The genesis only got away with it because the 6 buttons controller was cheap and it came in when it was near its death.
Let's not forget that other genres in the 6th gen started to use more than 6 buttons outside of the analog after the dreamcast died.
There is not a single DC game that would have use for a second analog stick. Even its FPS games controlled the exact same as other ports did. The second analong stick wasn't commonly used until the mid 2000's. Stop being moronic zoomers.
I'm not talking about analog stick, i'm talking about BUTTONS.
Fricking unreal tournament needed to use the fricking Dpad for the special move.
Also, as i hinted earlier, that would've beaten Sega in the ass later on if the DC survived longer.
Games used the double shoulders even less than the second analog. Tons of games they werent even mapped or just used to scroll. And again there were a grand total of 0 DC games, including all ports that lacked buttons or needed special control setups.
The point was more so that later gen 6ths would need some redesign to fit everything into the DC controller if they were to get ported for it.
The Dreamcast would have been obsolete and needed a successor by 2003 at the latest. People act like it was made to compete with the PS2 and Xbox, when it was actually in market space against the PS1 and N64
>>Have to buy ANOTHER controller to play a game
stopped reading after that, thats like saying UH I WANT TO PLAY RACING GAMES SO I HAVE TO BUY ANOTHER CONTROLLER?
so fricking dumb
I don't think anyone on this forum has ever played quake 3 on dreamcast including you. The stock pad was fine other than having to use the dpad to cycle weapons and that really wasn't that big an issue.
i did buddy, and yes it plays fine , its just that zoomers get butthurt because muh second analog stick so i have to remind them the keyboard and mouse exists
>and yes it plays fine
You're the first person I've seen post this. It amazes me finding out posters on this board have played a dreamcast before.
>better controller design
This is the only thing the dreamcast needed as it was uncomfortable to hold after awhile and the road cut into your thumb. The rest of your posts are worthless.
LOL @ N64. How can it look that bad?
its an n64, what did you expect
32x could do a better looking THPS and those not mentally deranged know that.
but /vr/ is full of them
I know, even the Genesis with Virtua's Racing SVP chip could do better than the n64
I see a lot of people criticise PSX warped graphics but I would take that all day over it being blurry. I cannot get over how bad that blur is.
but the thing is that /vr/ is very pro tendie and when you criticize the n64 you get banned for some days, something that never happens when criticizing other consoles and i don't know why.
its common knowledge that the n64 is pretty bad but they get butthurt I guess
Except that its not? A lot of shitting on every system is done where without anyone getting banned.
People can be a happy little console warrior for whatever brand they want to be in here without issues.
As for complains about 5th gen, people can just emulate to 'clean up' the image.
Dont like wobbly polygons? Emulate
Dont like blur filters? Emulate
There is so much bottled up frustration in some of you all over some 90s video game system(s)
>without an issue
I have never been banned for criticising Sega, Atari, 3do. I have however been banned several times for mentioning Nintendo's easy baby snes/n64 games and one time for bringing up how I bought my ps2 to watch dvds and didn't buy any launch title because they were lackluster.
Bullshit, I shat on nintendo multiple times for their shit and never got banned for it.
>Bullshit
Make a thread criticizing F Zero X and you'll see tendies go for you and then janny.
And Floigan, ohh how the Floigalverse makes the jannys seethe. Absolutely no Floigan because they literally can't handle the bants.
It wasn't blurry on a CRT
Sega autists still seething 25 years later I see
FRICKING LOOK AT THAT CRISP DREAMCAST IMAGE
Xbox has the second worst controller. N64 takes the prize for that but that SexBox was made for surviving drunk frat boys.
The DC one absolutely mogs Xbox here lmao look at the hand if you can't see the difference in detail
This convices me that the dreamcast could had keep up with the other consoles atleast when it came to third party multiplatform games. Those were all usually made with the PS2 in mind and the PS2 wasn't really that much more powerfull than the DC and it was only pretty late in that gen when devs managed to fully get the most out of the PS2's power.
Absolutely not. The Dreamcast hardware wasn’t even remotely close to being able to produce a game like Metal Gear Solid 2 or Final Fantasy X. The PS2’s GPU was significantly more powerful.
Your post makes no sense as the PS2 couldn't even run Shenmue.
>According to Sega employees, who are legally obligated to shill Dreamcast
There's nothing special about Shenmu
Hell, Shenmue and Shenmue 2 look quite nice running in VGA, but character models, geometry, environments, etc. are all noticeably more blocky and simplistic looking than what the other sixth gen consoles could do once they hit their stride.
Anon, I love the Dreamcast but it was not technologically capable of keeping up with the PS2 or other sixth gen consoles. Believing otherwise is wishful thinking.
I'm not a hardware guy, but reading comparisons of the dreamcast and the ps2 hardware, it seems like they're pretty comparable. Also, the xbox and the gamecube were both technically superior to the PS2, yet the PS2 still dominated this market hard. So I don't think technical superiority is all that important. I mean, look at the switch!
If the dreamcast stayed and got enough narket share then developers would be pretty much forced to make dreamcast ports. Even happened to the wii (and switch) lel
Shenmue was very innovative for 2000 and there was nothing like it on PS2 at the time, but the PS2 lasted much longer and ended up getting games like Resident Evil 4, GTA San Andreas, and the Yakuza games, none of which the Dreamcast would have been able to handle.
Notice how previous anon said third party games. Nobody is gonna push console graphics to their limits when making multiplatform games.
Dreamcast versions of multiplats would’ve been extremely gimped. There’s just no way its aging hardware was going to keep up.
That's when Sega comes out with the Dreamcast+ which comes with a redesigned controller featuring 2 more buttons and another analog stick, hardware based off the Naomi 2, DVD format for games, all while being able to still play your regular Dreamcast games.
....that is, if they hadn't run out of money thanks to the Sega Shiturn being an abhorrent failure.
It's surreal just how big of a jump in graphical fidelity the Dreamcast was from the N64 even though they're only 2 years apart.
The N64 was poorly designed and shot itself in the foot with its garbage texture cache.
But not really surprising when you consider other generational leaps, such as NES -> SNES. The DC/PS2/GC/XBox generation is when 3D graphics really hit its stride.
>le reddit texture cache meme
The age gap is irrelevant since the n64's graphics were terrible by design, not due to technical constraints.
Only consoles are designed on purpose to be complicated and shit. It's why I think they did more harm than good to the industry. How many games would have been improved and spared from cancellation if developers weren't shackled to these schizophrenic corporations and their proprietary shitboxes?.
Having twice as much VRAM as the PS2 (8mb versus 4mb), having hardware anti-aliasing (meaning AA was essentially "free" for developers), and having native progressive scan VGA out at 640x480 meant that the Dreamcast was capable of pumping out some pretty impressive graphics. The extra VRAM especially made it easier to use higher resolution textures as well as more texture variety without having to find workarounds or hacks like what ended up happening with the PS2.
The PS2 had twice as much standard RAM (32MB versus 16MB) and a faster CPU (basically 300MHz versus 200MHz) though, so while the DC has the edge in some areas the PS2 is the more conventionally powerful of the two by a significant margin.
The 16MB of RAM made porting PC games to the Dreamcast a little more difficult. A typical baseline gaming PC at the time would have 32 or even 64MB of RAM, with high end "enthusiast" PCs having 128MB. This is why ports like Unreal Tournament and Quake III had smaller levels as well as smaller player caps. Still though, both are very impressive ports, especially Quake III. Being able to play a headline AAA impressive FPS on a console that only cost $199 at launch was pretty bonkers. A PC capable of playing the game at the same resolution and framerate was significantly more expensive.
It was a net little system, I am sad it ended the way it did. Part of me wonders if Sega had just said frick it, we're backing the Dreamcast no matter what happens and we saw the Half Life port (and the planned eventual HLDM/Counter Strike/Day of Defeat multiplayer only expansion) released, as well as some of the other really high profile games that got canceled - stuff like Castlevania Resurrection, Age of Empires 2, Max Payne, Baldur's Gate, System Shock II, and Diablo 2.
Imagine playing Diablo 2 on the Dreamcast in online multiplayer over Seganet. That shit would have been pretty wild.
I'd say there's a 0% chance of anyone claiming piracy killed the DC actually knowing anyone who pirated on the DC before Sega stopped production.
The venn diagram of people with broadband internet, reasonable bandwidth caps, CD burners that weren't dogshit, and knowing how to functionally pirate DC games in 2000 probably wouldn't be very surprising unless you are moronic or not from then. The notion that a segment of consumers ticking all those boxes would put a noticeable dent in sales is revisionist poppywiener.
This. Anyone around at the time would know this.
Except he's full of shit. Piracy struck the Dreamcast sooner than expected, it affected the sales of Dreamcast games & the only way Sega could stop the bleeding was to put a patch on the newer models of Dreamcast consoles, in order to combat piracy. This was before they discontinued the Dreamcast.
Not soon enough considering that Sega was already millions of dollars in the red on the Japanese Dreamcast's release and Dreamcast piracy wasn't a thing until late 2000.
Late? Lol more like early to mid 2000! I am so glad I bought the games rather than pirate.
Thanks zoom, but you got the timeline wrong. Come back later.
Nope. My timeline is correct. Pirating Dreamcast games was easy & Sega panicked & had to patch an Anti-Piracy measure on later models of the Dreamcast. Your revisionist history doesn't change that.
>early 2000
Big Zoom.
You're moronic we were buying pirate DC games before they released
That's how they got propeller arena and half life dc
IN FACT if you look into DC releases they send shoutouts to cracking groups
>half life dc
That shit wasn't even release until some staff member dumped the rom on the internet some time ago.
it wasn't that people were downloading images of off Limewire it was that 99% DC owners had the know how and means to pirated if they wanted to
all you needed was a gameshark or a bootleg 500 NES games disc to get past the consoles security. I remember watching Dragon Ball GT on burnt VCDs with a Dreamcast.
>99% of Dreamcast owners had one of the five DVD drives capable of ripping GD-ROM and the tech wizardry to retrofit the 1GB image into a 650MB CD
Sure, let's go with that.
no one had an reason to try because they stopped making games full stop. System security was already cracked, NES emulators already worked on the DC and you could buy one at every mom and pop in the country.
In what country?
Piracy was a bigger problem on ps1 than it was on Dreamcast unironically
I bought a Dreamcast 9/9/99 and had no idea you could pirate and burn games for it until the Xbox 360 was out. I was only 10 when I bought it though, I wouldn't at all be surprised if there were adults into gaming who were all over Dreamcast piracy, but like you say I think the number would be relatively small, not enough to actually sink the Dreamcast. Piracy was an issue but Sega making shit business decisions and bleeding money years before the Dreamcast was even in development had a lot more to do with its death.
not really,murrican branch was what killed the dreamcast and murrican branch
>make 2 prototypes of consoles.
>one is more expensive but made with murrican chipset.
>they sell it at same price as japanese one.
>ports of japanese and european games are harder to make since they have to be remade for murrican dreamcast instead of just translating games.
>make 2 prototypes of consoles
First I've heard of this. What was the reasoning?
SoA was moronic and created pointless infighting while losing tons of money.
source? (not because i don't believe you its just i want something to read)
He's making it up. It's also moronic because companies don't operate that way.
here you go from the big boys at SoA themselves
https://segaretro.org/images/8/8c/SegaFY1997BrandReview_US.pdf
You are an idiot. Sega is one company. This branch wars nonsense you keep pushing is total garbage.
thx gona read that
The DC was the first Sega console I owned, precisely because it was the only new console which came out that year. It was a holdover until the PS2 and GC.
for a system that was only around for 2-3 years, it did get a relative shitload of games (600+)
>600+ good games
we won
Oh hey the touringgay from the STTC found the thread, lemme bring some popcorn.
You're refering to my post above? I'm not that guy, i just think cutting buttons was a bad idea even if most Saturn games didn't use them.
forget about that guy he's kinda moronic
For the billionth time no it didn't.
Long story short was that by the time piracy was feasible (mid 2000) Sega was already hemorrhaging money and was making plans to exit consoles. Moreover the piracy meme doesn't make sense on its face because why would you exit the HARDWARE business when it was the SOFTWARE being passed around. Thirdly, look at piracy that flourished on other platforms; if piracy could somehow kill a system, then the Famicom, PS1, OG Xbox, and especially the PS-fricking-P would've been fricking dust.
Anyone still buying this long disproven urban myth is either moronic, or a shill trying to guilt trip you for pirating games in the first place.
it was a pain transferring files that size before bittorrent. almost no one was doing it.
Dreamcast failed because it was smaller and perceived as less capable. That's also why PS2 and Xbox outsold GameCube
don't @ me
i just did
So how come the Wii outsold the PS3 and 360?
wii sold frick all software so it wasn't selling to people who wanted to buy games for it all generation, it sold to people who wanted a one off toy.
>GC failed because it didn't sell as many units
>hurr durr hardware units are irrelevant
Sure mate, 900 million + shitload of profit from hardware and accessories is frick all. Even ignoring the DS, Nintendo won that generation with the weakest and smallest console on the market.
wii is funny because it shows how easily things can fall apart if you don't build an audience. fell so hard they had to leave the console business.
Console market has just been on a decline since the 2000s, compared to the growth of PC gaming and the increasing number of Steam Users, the PS5 and Xbox are failures. The fact that developers don't care about console specific features + how everything 8/9th gen has been nothing but mid range PCs with a locked OS makes it meaningless for a company built on gimmicks to make a conventional shooter/FIFA box when they can make billions on hardware sales alone.
in all honesty I cant really come up with a reason to own any console other than a gaming PC and a switch if you're a normie. Everything that was exclusive to Xbox and Playstation is now getting ported to PC. But even then a switch isn't needed because emulators for PC are a thing and the switch fricking sucks anyways.
Normie here. I’ll never own a desktop PC again. Living room Xbox and Switch for me.
lol, poorgay.
I have a laptop, anon. Desktop PCs are for teenagers.
lol, ur p00r, u cant affoerd stuff
Unironically I can’t imagine still owning something that looks like this as an adult. Bonus points if you have a cringey twitch streaming microphone setup so you can be just like your favorite e-celebs.
You're just mad cuz you're a poorgay
Cringe
enjoy your overheated bottlenecked craptop you Blacksexual
No optical drive. Completely worthless. My Gaming PC is better.
Nintendo can't win anything when they dropped out of the race after the GameCube. They reverted back to a toy company, and ditched the home market for handhelds. If you're counting the Wii as a game console when 9/10ths of the owners never played anything because Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Just Dance, then you better be counting the IPhone and the millions of Angry Birds and Peggle players
900 million software sales dumbfrick, your playground shitflinging won't make you look any better
Carnival Games, Wii Sports, Just Dance 3... All the classics
3 games more than the PS3
I checked the attach rates, the average Wii owner bought more games than either competitor that gen.
Wii - 9.05 games
PS3 - 8.92 games
360 - 7.50 games
Why is VR obsessed with sales? Who gives a frick. What does this prove when it comes to making good games?
idk, its just an easy argument, same goes to reviews by journalists and tubers
It's a lazy one cuz all those wii owners bought was zumba fitness and carnival games. I love the wii but nobody actually bought good games. Just shovelware.
but you're on /vr/, so expect braindead arguments
apples and oranges. The other consoles had $60 AAA titles while Wii had mostly shovelware. How much was Nintendo charging per copy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games
Its mobile tier garbage. If you include the Wii in discussion about video games, then you have to include app store shovelware as well
Jesus christ, every videogame is a fricking toy dude, you are just pushing buttons in front of a fricking monitor. Go outside, travel, work or meet other people and live a good life if you want that full autism "adult" perception,
Don't try to sell me that ratchet and clank or gta as high art for grown people.
>Go outside, travel
Because it was a kids wii sports toy with a gimmick designed to lure in casuals. Nintendo are many things but no one can deny they are fantastic at duping stupid low iq individuals into spending their money. They struck gold with the wii. Hell even ms took inspiration and ran with the kinect. It's tough to keep hold of that lightning in a bottle though, both wii and kinect were in the bin pretty fricking quick in the eyes of the public
the scary thing is dreamcast didn't even need dvds
if it stayed alive, game size wouldn't be an issue at all
No, Sega's comically bad timing and hilarious carnival of piss-poor, embarrassing business choices did. People like to blame everything on Sega of Japan or Sega of America, but the problem was that they were in a constant struggle against each other.
No, but it was one of many death by a thousand cuts. Dreamcast was doomed to fail and Sega was fooling themselves to think they had enough financial backing to give the console business another go.
It died because it was technologically obsolete by 2001
The Xbox made all the competition obsolete though, yet look at that.
Not really. The three 'main' sixth gen consoles were all way more advanced than what the aging Dreamcast hardware was capable of producing. No way it could’ve kept up beyond 2002 at best.
This. Developers b***hed constantly about gamecube discs only holding 1.5 gbs. Dreamcast discs only held 1 gb, the Dreamcast would have gotten less third party support than the gamecube.
It wasn’t just a matter of disc space. The GameCube/PS2/Xbox all had significantly more advanced GPUs and processors compared to the Dreamcast hardware that originally launched in Japan in 1998.
No, Sega didn't have money for its operational cost, like production, advertising, exclusivity contracts, etc
>Sega loses hundreds of millions due to piracy
>them not having money is completely unrelated to piracy
got it
I'm sure them being hundreds of millions in the red BEFORE any piracy exploit was found is entirely the fault of pirates and not
>a moronicly designed predecessor that cost way too much to make and every console lost $100
>developing two consoles at the same time because it's funny to pit the american team against the japanese team again
>developing the most expensive game in history that would keep its record for ten years
But remember, all of this wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the damned pirates
You're fricking clueless.
>consoles sell for a loss, surprise surprise dumbass. Literally every single Sony/MS/Sega home console after the release of Sonic 2 has been sold at a loss so people are incentivized to enter into a single ecosystem for that generation
>The 32X was Hayao Nakayama's idea. Look it up.
>Cost of man-hours != monetary loss. The reason why Shenmue was such a flop was because it took the vast majority of Sega's resources and yet didn't meet expectations, in terms of finances, Shenmue was not the end of the world for Sega. Losing 10 million on a game when you're pissing 200 million on hardware used for pirated games is nothing.
Consult this chart and point at when the piracy exploit was found. Don't cry if someone points out your faulty timeline.
>Literally every single Sony/MS/Sega home console after the release of Sonic 2 has been sold at a loss
Playstations, with the exception of the PS3, are only ever nominally a loss and sold at profit at a year into its life. PS5 has been sold at profit a few months after launch. Xbox no doubt is in a similar position.
>The 32X was Hayao Nakayama's idea
I'm talking about Blackbelt vs. Dural
>Cost of man-hours != monetary loss
If a company spent $70 million on a game's development and still doesn't have it out by the end of the fiscal year, it's called a loss. That's accounting.
>are only ever nominally a loss and sold at profit at a year into its life
You point ironically stands true for the Saturn as well. By the third board revision in 1996 Sega was breaking even before having to sell the rest of their stock at a loss to make way for the Dreamcast. Also no idea how Sony was selling PS2 slims for $129 at a profit in 2004 but you do you
>I'm talking about Blackbelt vs. Dural
Ah yeah that was a massive frickup on Sega's part. Acquiring a percentage of a company only to frick up the deal is another masterstroke from SoJ
>70 million
closer to 50 actually according to the director, including a big portion of the costs for the sequel. Also I'm fairly certain that games don't suddenly disappear after the end of a fiscal year, if they did, that would be a major disturbance to the supply chain.
Anon, for Shenmue to have been profitable for Sega, every Dreamcast owner would've to buy 2 copies of it.
>source: I made it the frick up
Sesrch it on google.
That's not a source. Like can you even make the math dipshit? A game sold at $50, with a profit of say $40 because of production, retail cut and shipping and a budget of 46 million would need an install count of about 575 thousand consoles by your estimates, which is what the Dreamcast sold in its first month in Europe alone.
>40 x 575
>$21500
Don't think that's how it works.
I get that you're trolling but at least try harder.
21.500.000 is still not enough.
Now multiply it by 2 and maybe add another 3 million because you couldn't do simple multiplication
>Also I'm fairly certain that games don't suddenly disappear after the end of a fiscal year
The progress on a game's development doesn't disappear if it's not completed, but as a matter of fact money disappeared without making any profit. Which is what called a loss.
>we spent $70 million on development, put that down on the cost side
>we still haven't released the game
>but the progress on the game is worth $70 million right? let's put that on the revenue side
This would get several people fired and an investigation launched, you idiot. That's why it's a loss.
Ok but it's 2023, not 1998, you're arguing as tho Sega have not made a single cent on that product.
That's beyond the point though.
Sega isn't in the console business in 2023.
Sure but that doesn't magically delete their million something Shenmue sales that they've made in these 25 years. So yeah, piracy was a lot more impactful than a couple of million lost by Shenmue
>y the third board revision in 1996 Sega was breaking even
and yet they still made less and less of the console after that.
Some context for this image, with US release dates.
Sega was primarily an arcade company that got lucky in the home market with the genesis/us market.
what the frick happened? did R&D on the dreamcast just kill them?
It was creative accounting that kept them looking good near saturn launch.
They were fricked big time before that plunge
Debt from manufacturing saturns which no one bought and were very expensive to produce
The 32X and Saturn soaked up a shitload of money in terms of manufacturing, then the Saturn tanked in sales. The Dreamcast was basically a Hail Mary that didn't work out.
The part that sucked about the Dreamcast's fate was that, for the most part, Sega did everything right. They fixed the biggest flaws of the Saturn, mainly
> The Saturn's architecture was overly complicated
The Dreamcast had a simple, but powerful CPU and GPU setup that also had things like hardware AA and VGA out
> The Saturn was overly expensive
The Dreamcast launched at $199
> The Saturn was difficult for programmers to port games to
Devs were given the option of using Sega's well documented Katana API for maximum system power, or using Windows CE which had a higher overhead but made porting games from the PC much easier
> The Saturn's peripherals were expensive
The Dreamcast shipped with a built in dialup modem in every territory (with speeds differing, but full 56k in the US)
The only major issue they fricked up on was the controller, which should have either had 3x2 buttons (like an arcade) or two analog sticks (like the Dual Shock).
Honestly Saturns sold super well in the beginning (even with the early launch that made some retailers assmad), but tapered off pretty hard. After a while the margins were so small on the actual hardware due to the high cost of manufacturing that they were making almost nothing on consoles and were relying mainly on software sales.
>Honestly Saturns sold super well in the beginning (even with the early launch that made some retailers assmad)
And bug sold well enough to be a top seller in that year and even get shilled on TV.
Imagine if that ended up being a Sonic game as it was originally meant to be, maybe Sega would've lasted for another year in the console race.
Bug was a piece of garbage, same for the sequel.
Lack of better alternatives is why it sold well.
Yeah, but we are talking about selling products, not about making quality software.
Not having a Sonic game ready to go on day 1 was pretty moronic.
Not having a true Sonic game release whatsoever due to moronic corporate infighting was excessively moronic.
They literally showed that the Saturn was capable of a nice looking 3D Sonic environment with a solid framerate with the Sonic World section in Sonic Jam, but instead they wasted time on inter-company bickering and moronic fisheye shit that literally no one wanted.
Bug was fun and pretty novel for the time. Multi-plane platformers weren't really a thing back then
Sonic Xtreme was the opposite of inter-company bickering. They found a solution for everyone's problem. Sonic Team currently don't want to make more Sonic games? Give them a sabbatical. We need a Sonic game and STI need to cut their teeth, give them Sonic.
Everyone completely and majorly underestimated STI's incompetence.
>If a company spent $70 million on a game's development and still doesn't have it out by the end of the fiscal year, it's called a loss. That's accounting.
No it's $48millions for Project Berkley (Shenmue Saturn) Shenmue DC and Shenmue 2 DC.
MGS2 and FFX it's between $10-20 millions.
The "seventy million dollars" also included a shitload of technical/graphical effects that would be used in many of Sega's first party games for both the Saturn and Dreamcast consoles as well as some of their arcade releases.
The idea that, in 1999, Sega had spent $70,000,000 on a single game is moronic. When adjusted for inflation to 2023 it would be almost 127 million dollars.
Yes. I remember when one of my friends tried to sell me a Dreamcast game for 5 bucks on a CD-R. I was like "no thank you, I want to support Sega any way I can". This was during the height of the Dreamcast's life-span. But eventually anyone I knew who owned a Dreamcast were using CD-R's before the release of the PS2. It sucked big time. Hence why I'm Anti-Piracy.
im pro-piracy for everybody else but if sega made a new console i'd be anti-piracy for them specifically
Understandable. I just knew at the time that I wanted to support Sega any way I can. Although it was cool to play the DreamSNES emulator my friend let me borrow to play on my Dreamcast. Playing Super Mario World on a Sega Console was mind-blowing to me at the time.
Why does this topic get remade every few days? We already know the truth.
Sega as a company was broke before they even made the Dreamcast. The failure of the Sega Saturn hurt their bank accounts badly. Sega really should have exited the console market after the Saturn's failure.
But Sega risked the entire company and borrowed money from Japanese banks, and went into deep debt just to make the Sega Dreamcast. But Sega ran out money even with their borrowed funds and the game was over. Pirates had very little to no effect on the final outcome. Sega killed Sega.
In retrospect, people wanted "bigger" games. The rapidly growing mainstream market further reinforced this (there was a dumbass thread about this very blind misconception not too long ago). Games like Shenmue was an attempt to capture this demographic and I won't believe otherwise. There is a reason why Yakuza and God of War are only some of the biggest cinematic experiences from the early 2000's.
I can't speak for other countries, but in the UK, a shitload of people had a PS1 and a shitload of those PS1 owners had their consoles chipped. While this may have had an effect on some software houses in the short-term, I believe that in the long-term, it didn't do Sony much harm. Cheap, copied games were yet another reason to own the console, against the N64 where cartridges couldn't be copied. More people owning the console means it's more prominent in people's minds. Fast forward a few years to the Dreamcast. Far, far fewer people owned one to begin with compared to the PS1, so naturally fewer still were playing copied games. That's the nub of the matter. Unauthorized copying (or "piracy") didn't kill it, it was DOA.
I always blamed the Saturn but maybe that's short-sighted.
The PS2's overwhelming presence also probably factored in.
Some people hypothesize that PS2 being backwards compatible with PS1 was a big factor. People would rather wait for PS2 because they could sell their PS1 units and continue playing their game libraries on the PS2. No such possibility if they bought the Dreamcast.
It had soul in an era where soulless was just beginning to be in high demand. I still love the PS2 though, or at least its impressive library of games.
The Dreamcast (and the Saturn) were killed by Sony's illegal business practices. Any criticism of the Saturn or Dreamcast is automatically wrong (except that Bernie Stolar didn't let enough games get localized).
$299 😉
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT. MICROSOFT SAVE ME.
>Sony's illegal business practices.
elaborate pls
Sega was in a financial crisis due to numerous bad decisions throughout the 90’s. The Dreamcast was a ship set out of port with a leak already set. They would have needed a miracle to to break even at the time.
Extra post: you've got to think about what kind of person bought a Dreamcast in outside of Japan. It was usually a male in their teens or college years. People who are very likely to mod and pirate a system if potential is there.
If the Dreamcast had been able to capture more mainstream appeal this would not have been as big of a problem. The PS2 also had rampant piracy but it was so popular with casuals that it didn't matter.
Piracy has indeed killed the Dreamcast. The lack of sales for Dreamcast games was proof of that.
>9 games per console
9 out of the 250+ games available, that is an unacceptable amount.
in the history of computing piracy hasn't killed a single thing
Except the music industry
Don't be so reddit, piracy does result in a negative impact. Now quote that EU study you didn't read to "prove me wrong."
-t. lifelong pirate
>illusion
no, the areas where the games where pirated they weren't commercially available, were limited versions which the coomers didn't want or were impossible to mod in comparison to pirated copies while costing a shit ton, mixing this with the fact that the company made pure shit for 8 years while not supporting their good products and you get this. piracy doesn't remove sells by the simple fact that the people who pirate can't buy the game on the first place or don't want to buy the game on the first place so trying to remove them is a moronic task, illusion survived for a long time by imports of the non shit games which got known on the entire world by pirated copies, illusion survived for such a long time because of piracy, not otherwise, and this is even with the heap of shit they started to develop, piracy can only generate that people who don't want to buy the game to buy it and generate people who recommend the game to other people who can buy it while maintaining that costumer who can't or doesn't want to buy it , it always increases costumers and has been proven by real studies, the only reason companies don't like piracy is because with it they can make shit and get money by making subpar media which not a sane person with the knowledge of his contents would buy.
piracy is because without it*
Wrong. It killed the Dreamcast, the music industry, it almost killed the movie industry until digital formats became available to buy. Although now idiots in Hollywood are killing their own movie franchises, but that has nothing to do with piracy. Basically anything digital can kill an industry.
>It killed the Dreamcast
You are missing the point. Why would it only kill the Dreamcast but not kill the Playstation 1, Playstation 2, Gamecube, or Xbox?
I think you know the answer.
Piracy was much more difficult on those consoles
Proof?
>more difficult
in the ps1 you had to just change the disc, on the ps2 by simply covering a sensor with your finger with an original disc or a swap magic or a memory card, on the gamecube you just had to get a cheap chip and on the xbox you had to get a cheap chip, in general a chip is easy to install and easier than modifying dumps so they are scrambled, compress them so the game runs at all and fixing those compressions when the games don't work at all or have awful glitches, and this is without the katana kit that these scrambling algorithms where got, a kit which was very likely given by sega to try to save the console by giving free access to the old software and making a new revision without the issue and freeing the console off drm if that wasn't the case so the people who had it could enjoy all of the games for it.
Because those consoles were harder to pirate. Whereas with Dreamcast, you can simply use CD-R's. Either way, piracy doesn't boost sales for consoles or games. Otherwise Dreamcast would have a longer lifespan.
>Because those consoles were harder to pirate.
Not enough to actually amount to anything.
Don't know about you guys but here in Bongland there was a shop on every corner in the late 90's with a tatooed chain smoking bloke offering to 'chip' PS1's and offering a huge list of pirated games for £4/5 each, literally everyone i knew had a modded playstation and a box full of pirated games.
Well if there's a modded PS1, I had never came across one. It's not as wide-spread as sone pro-pirate would make it seem like.
>A controller that has less buttons than every console of the 5th generation sans the 3DO
Who thought this was a good idea?
>Most games didn't use all the-
So Sega couldn't predict games would eventually get more complicated and therefore require more buttons?
>DCgays will defend this
Why are you console warring over the shittiest PC slop imaginable?
Dreamcast has no games except PC slop.
>has the best txr game
>has the best version of rayman 2
>best version of quake 3 with more polygons
moron again
Txr?
tokyo xtreme racer 2
>raslop #20475 (they're all the same)
>Pslop
>modded pslop
>cope
thx
Nah, just shitposting.
I don't really care.
Having to stop aiming for a mili-second to use the special shot can be annoying though.
How boring
Na
Are you incapable of taking your thumb off the stick and moving it back in one simple less than a second motion?
For quake I would let go of the analog stick for a split second but your image also works. And how is that any different from using a claw grip?
literal moron
>Controller so bad people had to buy a keyboard to play games.
>play fps online
there fixed it for ya
People would've to buy it for more genres had it lived longer.
what genres appart from fps and typing games (and internet) do you need the keyboard? lmao
Every single one that requires more than 6 buttons.
like what
Not who you asked but there’s a litany of games that benefit from M&K. Controller is obviously more comfortable and relaxing. But TPS/FPs, RTS, Sim games, Construction, typing games, MMOs, and RPGs all benefit. Platformers obviously are better on controller. But this is just a ridiculous statement and I don’t think even you believe it
The point anon was making is that the DC's lack of buttons would "force" DC owners to buy the keyboard for a more convinient experience.
Beyond the ones mentioned above, Hack 'n slashes come to mind.
keyboard and mouse
Thanks for proving the point.
proving the point that some games require the keyboard and some don't?
A hack 'n slash shouldn't require a fricking keyboard to get a good experience.
Only if the previous controller broke.
>A hack 'n slash shouldn't require a fricking keyboard to get a good experience.
idk i don't play moronic games and buying another controller isn't a rare thing
It's not that common either.
but it gives you a better experience
>steering wheel for racing games
>keyboard and mouse for fps games
>mission stick for flying games
>etc
You realize that those thing cost money, right? Not everyone will be willing to buy another controller just to play a game.
then don't buy the game moron
>Kid asks for game
>Parents buy it
>Controller is too limited, which makes the game not fun to play
>Parents won't by a keyboard to make game fun
Now you're gonna tell me it's the costumer's fault for not wasting more money.
>but think about the kids
What kind of 7 year olds can you imagine that were into Q3, Half Life or Unreal? Fact is if you wanted to play those games, a $200 (maybe even less seeing the discounts) Dreamcast and a KBM with it were numerous times cheaper than a new gaming PC where you also had to buy peripherals.
And even then people would rather not spend more money, this is not an excuse for a controller with less meat in it than its predecessor.
Yeah, they would absolutely not spend it it on wiimotes and nunchuks and kinects because 6 year old timmy is 100% itching to play Quake online and not Mario Kart or whatever the frick parents buy for their kids. Accessories sell and a KBM is the best accessory for a console, bar none.
You fail to take into account that Sega lost a bunch of their good will at that time, they SHOULD design their controller with the thought that "if it sucks, people can just buy a keyboard", that's consumer unfriendly and such practive with thr add-ons is exactly what started Sega's downfall.
Yuji Naka overheard some boomers complain about how many buttons the dualshock had and convinced Sega to reduce the functionality of the controller and appeal to a casual audience. This was exceptionally short-sighted as even Gamecube prototype controllers had a second stick, but appealing to casuals helped nintendo win the following gen, so it wasn't the worst idea.
>Imying teenagers and kids don't like to feel "mature" by playing gritty and edgy games.
No parent was buying fricking Quake 3 on the Dreamcast for their kid in 1999 like the asshat above you is trying to suggest.
>you can play PC games with KBM for $250 (realistically $150 because the console was heavily discounted and you probably got a free keyboard with Seganet)
>OMG THAT'S SO HECKING CONSUMER UNFRIENDLY I WILL LITERALLY CALL THE MANAGER
the Vita proprietary cards were consumer unfriendly, Nintendo selling 2008 tier hardware for $350 in 2023 is consumer unfriendly, the proposed Xbox One VRM was consumer unfriendly. Sega practically giving away a capable PC when they were expensive as shit was anything but.
>No parent was buying fricking Quake 3 on the Dreamcast for their kid in 1999
Not every parent is a strict prude if that's what you're saying.
>the Vita proprietary cards were consumer unfriendly, Nintendo selling 2008 tier hardware for $350 in 2023 is consumer unfriendly, the proposed Xbox One VRM was consumer unfriendly.
All of those companies had way more brand-loyality than Sega did at the time.
>Not every parent is a strict prude if that's what you're saying.
If you think any parent or grandma is picking Quake over Sonic Adventure for little Timmy you are out of your mind.
A child does have to be 6 years old you know.
Also, Sonic adventure came in with the console.
*doesn't
No parent bought Quake 3 on the Dreamcast for their kid in 1999, but my dad bought Quake 3 on the Dreamcast for me in 2000 when it released.
>No parent was buying fricking Quake 3 on the Dreamcast for their kid in 1999 like the asshat above you is trying to suggest.
That's right, because Quake 3 on the Dreamcast was released in 2000.
>Nintendo selling 2008 tier hardware for $350 in 2023
If you want something on the same tier as the Tegra X1 in 2008, it didn't exist and if it did, it'd drain 2000W. Portability (and battery life) is the name of the game, not raw power.
I think you seriously underestimate how big Quake 3 was anon. Were you just not around at the time? It’s fine if not. But like you know how big GTA 5 was? That’s Quake 3. It’s unfortunate the Dreamcast was doomed from the start. Because it had a lot of good games. And for the time they were really impressive too.
>But like you know how big GTA 5 was? That’s Quake 3.
A bit laughable comparison. PC gaming was still niche. Frankly I posit that PC gaming wasn't big until 2011. Quake 3 was a curio item port. If it were as big as GTA 5 it would have singlehandedly saved the Dreamcast.
Gaming was generally pretty niche as frick. But Quake 3 had a lot of presence as a cool game to play and amongst gaming wasn’t some niche random game no one had heard of you know? The hobby has become very mainstream since the Original Xbox, 360 and PS4.
>Gaming was generally pretty niche as frick.
Being an autist who played games as your only hobby was niche as frick. Video games in and of themselves weren't, zoomertard
>Frankly I posit that PC gaming wasn't big until 2011
Holy fricking shit this board is moronic.
Funny how such a massive game that rivaled GTA 5 in influence sold so little on the Dreamcast then. Reality is that PC gaming was niche as frick, I don't think any middle schoolers were organising LAN parties or spending hundreds of hours in net cafes or were informed enough to buy a Dreamcast for online play, Xbox live was the big cultural phenomenon.
Real time strategy
Multiplayer online battle arena
Vehicle simulator
Eve Online
>Vehicle simulator
wtf is that
Farm simulator, Euro truck simulator, Microsoft flight simulator, etc.
why don't use a steering wheel or the flight stick like a normal person?
>Dude, buy two other controllers on top of the one that came with the console
>bro so theres this new fighting game i want to play but controllers suck. what do you mean buy an arcade stick
Unless the game doesn't accept the analog stick like some fighters for the DC did (seriously, what's with that?) then an arcade stick is just to get a better arcade experience, not because the game is otherwise less enjoyable without it.
i play quake 3 with the controller, but i could play it with the keyboard and mouse
Now imagine a game more complex than Quake 3 being ported to the DC.
That'd be a nightmare.
I don't think the controller itself is bad, or at least not for the games it has, but it showed that Sega had a rather archaic view of the future of gaming in hindsight.
>more complex than Quake 3 being ported to the DC
The point really flew over your head.
idk just buy a keyboard
>That'd be a nightmare.
I play these games that require 100+ keybinds. It's a fricking nightmare full stop.
Yes? This isn't exactly a rare thing to do.
Yes piracy killed the Dreamcast. The pirate-gays will deny this due to the simple fact that they're against blaming piracy on anything.
Surely, it had nothing to do with Sega being in huge debt before the DC was even launched and the PS2 being the most sold console of all time...
In other words piracy clearly helped the dreamcast.
The Saturn and the 32X killed the Dreamcast.
Keyboard anon would defend Game Freak's greedy practices with gen 3 if Sega were the ones doing it.
Gamefreak lost their touch sometime after gen 4, at latest during the development of Pokemon B&W.
he's the same guy that made this thread
you can see how deranged he is.
>literal rent free
Not in the slightest. I'm a prolific pirate and even had a moded PS1. Never played a burnt dreamcast game until years after they stopped making games for the console.
yup it's touringgay
wheres the time lap ma man?
Too ambitious, too ahead of it's time.
Too based for this gay Earth.
$199 price tag killed the dreamcast
Article that disproves the notion piracy killed the Dreamcast:
https://web.archive.org/web/20141016220612/https://medium.com/@michaelgapper/land-of-the-free-467f0eb2f395
>Skywalker of the Hitmen demo group used the MIL-CD exploit to run his A.G.E. Demo back on April 23rd of 2000 and Bleem exploited it to run their Dreamcast PS1 emulator at E3 in May of the same year, setting the stage for Utopia’s bootdisc
>That June, Utopia dumped the first ripped Dreamcast games online – Dead or Alive 2 and Soul Calibur
>Just two months later on August 19th Kalisto released the first self-booting Dreamcast rips – Dynamite Cop and Virtua Fighter 3tb
Less than a year and for the first 4 months of "piracy" was literally a handful games. And all in the same year Sega was internally deciding to kill the Dreamcast because of lost revenue from five years of poor decisions. Real death blow that must've been.
No. Stop watching cuckoldXlard and believing all the stuff hes getting off wiki
Who?
Sega lard x
>Sega Lard X
>pushes piracy narrative
Not surprising.
If dreamcast had a dvd player, piracy wouldnt have mattered
I don't think they could keep the DC at a reasonable price with a dvd player.
Even without piracy, PS2 would suffocate it with its vast library and GameCube with first party Nintendo games (and ports with better graphics than ps2). There is basically no reason to get a Dreamcast if the GameCube and ps2 exist.
cd burners were expensive as frick, the first one I bought was 150 quid
Is there anything software piracy is actually responsible for killing? It seems like all of the finger-pointing and bait threads on Ganker that blame piracy for things going wrong end up getting debunked pretty easily.
Piracy more often than not just gives in more fans to something.
The "1piracy = 1 copy" doesn't apply because the person buy pirate products is way more likely to simply NOT buy the original product if piracy was an option.
Now post that in English.
>It scared away third party publishers
Nope
I was typing fast, but the point still comes across.
Someone that buys pirate products would probably not have bought the original thing if piracy wasn't an option.
This assumes that people don’t buy things that they don’t need, which is patently false. This also assumes that people who are “able” to pirate would rather have an illegitimate copy of a game than a legitimate one, which is also false.
Piracy literally does nothing but increase a given thing’s popularity, which directly increases the likelihood of sales. People who pirate something weren’t gonna buy it to begin with.
Uh, yeah, that was my point.
Ah, well you did a bad job of writing it. But since we’re on the same page, I forgive you.
It was Aaron's fault, he didn't look after it when he was supposed and that's how the Dreamcast died, if only it knew how to swim... it was only a baby...
It scared away third party publishers but it was just one of many nails.
I like how this thread has become mostly a piracy good or bad argument. Piracy is based. EoS.
The ultimate truth is the DC had to save the entire company, and there was ko way it could. Sega was already in dire straits from the sheer number of mistakes it had already made. The PS2 became a Juggernaut and had a massive library that was rapidly growing. Nintendo finally joined the trend of optical media and the GameCube was an amazing console with great library. And then Microsoft joined the party. Just like Sony, they already had the means to successfully add a gaming console to their roster. Even if it failed, the company could brush it off. There was no fricking way Sega could compete. Market saturation of consoles always leads to a huge drop off for the weaker entries because even when people buy multiple consoles, they will not buy a 4th console. Even with that era being extremely cheap, relatively . And while there was some amazing options, as these consoles came out the series continued onto them instead. Resident Evil, Soul Caliber, etc. It would have had to do everything perfect to succeed. It wouldve had to have been so good, that gaming critics blow their load when turning the console on. Tightly gripping the controls with sweat pooring down their brow, they expell ejaculate in libelous volumes where it audibly spills to the floor between their shivering legs. Then, MAYBE, Sega couldve survived in the console market. Theyre so FRICKING lucky thatthey had many other things to help keep them afloat because it wasnt long before they got into Sonic's worst era as well.
There's nothing based about piracy. It ends carreers of people who helped make the games or consoles. Not that you ever thought about that. Even in my teens, I knew how bad piracy was for Sega. The employees affected by the failure of the Dreamcast due to rampant piracy was the result of their loss of their jobs.
jobs are bad though
Nope. Having a job helped me buy & build my gaming PC, as well as helping me obtain multiple retro consoles like the Sega Saturn & Turbo Grafx 16.
those are all bad things. you should be touching grass if you're a wagie
No. You didn't live in that era. This is a LARP.
I did. While my friends and I were modding and pirating games on PC, we didnt bother on console cause it was usually more trouble than it was worth. If it was even possible.
Rather than pirate a PSX, I got one from my cousin who had been stationed in Kuwait. The console played in black and white lol. So, just can it bro.
Jet set radio was fun.
Semen, however was too odd to be able to succeed. Even Hey, you Pikachu couldn't do well and it had backing of a huge franchise.
I chipped my psx as soon as I found out you could and every lebbo and dog were doing it. I also got pirated games on dreamcast but I felt they tried the lazors.
False. I definitely lived in that era. As a matter of fact, it was during the WWF Attitude Era when the Dreamcast released & in March of 2001 both Dreamcast & WCW died at the same time. You're the only one larping.
False. Piracy is cringe that only poorgays embrace. Internet ads or tracking have nothing to do with the Dreamcast or piracy for that matter.
That was a nice time to be a gamer, i remember it well. The thing is, a lot of my mates chipped their PS1, so piracy wasn't specific to the DC. In fact, more people seemed to pirate PS1 games than anything in my area. The DC just didn't cope with the PS2, and the hype around it.
Totally hate piracy also, although i do emulate older stuff if it's not available new/remastered.
>totally hate piracy
For what reason?
I believe people should be paid for their craft, should you enjoy the product. Gaming is no different?
When I was in school, none of my classmates knew how to "chip" a PS1. It was different with a Dreamcast because you don't need a mod chip to pirate games for Dreamcast. All you needed was a CD-R & whatever program they used to pirate Dreamcast games with.
Piracy is as based as you can get. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING tracks you. Absolutely wrecks you with ads or recommended content.
Frick them. If they have this much money to waste on these anti-consumerous practices and are willing to lose the money then they are fricking going to.
its like using ad blocker. Well if you didnt completely frick any watchability with insane ad rolls, then frick off.
Games maybe but pirating tv shows and movies is the only moral thing to do. Why would you give hollywood creeps money when they hate you and your way of life?
He’s also wrong about the Dreamcast. Piracy had no overall impact on Sega going third party.
Absolute cope. You didn't even need to mod your console, later releases didn't even require a disc swap
Long after the Dreamcast was already on its last legs. Piracy was not a factor.
No anon that was right on release. Those cracko intros have release dates on them.
>9 games per console.
Not sure what you're trying to accomplish but should be easy to proving you wrong, right
>may 16th 2001
The dreamcast was already 1 foot in the grave at that time.
Brs do consume a lot of original vidya in the current day though.
soulful as hell
where can I find these old rips?
In irrelevant third world markets like Eastern Europe and South America maybe. People weren’t widely downloading and burning CD-R Dreamcast games until well after it was discontinued.
Pressed CDs got sold in cases. You're probably right about middle class America.
That’s what I’m saying. Dreamcast piracy wasn’t a factor in markets that actually matter. Brazil has never and will never be a country that matters to video game publishers.
Depends on the movie or TV Show. If it's Demolition Man, definitely worth paying for. If it's Ghostbusters(2016), I would never pay to see that movie, let alone pirate it.
False. Piracy had a huge impact on Dreamcast, forcing them into going third party as a result. Had they made bigger steps to combat piracy, the Dreamcast woukd have lived longer than 2-3 years. A video game company can't make money & survive if piracy is readily available in less than a year after it's release.
>less than a year after its release
>release date: November 27th 1998
>Sega being hundreds of millions of dollars in debt: 1998
>piracy available: June 2000
Real lesson: A video game company can't make money if it keeps making stupid decisions like the 32X and the Saturn.
The 32x was a stupid idea, but the Saturn wasn't that bad. It isn't SoJ's fault that SoA sabatoged the system in the west, and Sony was able to afford extreme losses they made by dumping the playstation. If it were just Sega Saturn vs. N64, the Saturn would have won easily.
SoA didn't sabotage the Saturn, or at least not in the way you think.
Launching the system early killed off whatever was left of Sega's reputation in America.
Draining away resources to the 32x and fricking up the launch that pissed off retailers.
Sega killed itself, not piracy or sony or whatever other bullshit reason you can think of.
Even after they went 3rd party, and released their shit to an audience of hundreds of millions of players they still underperformed.
Pretty much this. The Dreamcast had a pretty good launch and first year in North America, but the PS2 was coming along the following year and it was too little, too late.
I'm going by the American release date & it was less than a year.
And it's totally because of piracy that they were hundreds of millions of dollars in debt before piracy was even available.
People like anon that insist it was piracy are legitimately stupid. It’s baffling.
False. The Dreamcast was doing very well, selling games left & right. Once piracy hit the Dreamcast, sales started hurting, forcing Sega to get out of the console business.
No, what's stupid is thinking piracy helps sales of games. I'm glad Nintendo at least has the balls to fight piracy to protect their IP.
>1998: Lost $327 million, $671 million of debt
>1999: Lost $276 million, $831 million of debt, $1.8 billion in long term debt
But go on about piracy. It's because of piracy that Sega lost half a billion dollars and owed half the company's worth of debt before piracy existed.
Space traveling pirates
TIME traveling, frick me
Your pic doesn't prove your claim that Sega lost the amount you're claiming. Nice try.
False. Without piracy, the Dreamcast would have survived longer, but would have been third place once Gamecube came out. Xbox would have failed because they wouldn't have the Sega fanbase.
Delusional.
Sega couldn't afford to be in third or even second place. You just admitted that Sega would have still gone third party even if the Dreamcast did not have piracy.
>Your pic doesn't prove your claim
>nuh-uh stop hurting my feelings with fact i can't take it
>Without piracy, the Dreamcast would have survived longer
Yeah, like 2 weeks more.
moronic take. The Dreamcast was only doing relatively well in North America and floundered in every other major region. Then the PS2 launched in fall of 2000 and it was no longer the most powerful console on the market. Piracy or no piracy, the Dreamcast wouldn’t have been able to stay afloat past early 2002 at best once all three of the main sixth gen consoles were out.
See
and
. Piracy only 'killed' the Dreamcast in irrelevant markets where piracy was already rampant.
The Dreamcast was also never going to make a dent in western Europe because the PlayStation brand was and is so strong there. That leaves North America where it did fairly well and Japan where it flopped.
Sega's insistence on being the weirdos and ignoring everyone else killed them
They were the first guys to make a nice sized dig at Nintendo thanks to Sonic, so they thought were like auteurs or something and started making obtuse and experimental games that can't really fit into any known genre (What the frick even is NiGHTs, or Jet Set Radio, exactly?)
Yes they did invent numerous game-changing concepts but the manner in which they did so is baffling
>hating on jet set radio a game where you go around tagging, bashing cops and listening to cool tunes
You really have no clue.
You're misreading me, bud. Jet Set Radio 1 is one of my favorite games; in fact, I'm in the wildly unpopular camp that it's more soulful than JSRF
What I was trying to say is that, to the normie audience, stuff like Jet Set Radio was far too bizarre and thus is unfairly written off by many because of just how strange it is. Like Trout Mask Replica but for video games
I fully understand what you are getting at now and get why they included Rob zombie in jet grind radio.
False. The only one gaslighting here is you. There's no point in defending piracy, you're not getting paid for it. Piracy killed the Dreamcast & that's a fact that I am a witness to. So there's no point in you trying to rewrite history saying that it wasn't "possible" in 2000. They had to impliment a patch on newer models after the fact, but by then the PS2 overshadowed the Dreamcast & they ended production in March of 2001. So yes piracy was already happening in 2000, which affected game sales & caused harm to Sega financially as a result. Heck the Sega Saturn had better protection then Dreamcast when it came to piracy.
>9 games per console
Piracy literally did nothing, the people who bought pirated games wouldn't buy the original ones if piracy wasn't an option.
In fact, they might not even buy the console without piracy.
False. Game rentals & demo discs were a thing back then, which is how I was able to discover & enjoy Dreamcast games. Piracy made it easier for poorgays to obtain games they can't afford, thus leading to Dreamcast's quick demise. Piracy can suck a dick.
False. There's nothing wrong with people having a job. Just because you're living off your parents, doesn't mean everyone else should. I'm glad I got a job. It makes it easier to buy what I want, when I want.
Poorgays wouldn't buy a dreamcast anyway.
And yet they did because it was insanely cheap($50) at the time.
>And yet they did because it was insanely cheap($50) at the time.
You mean at the very end of its life, and by that point the DC was beyond saving.
No. Piracy for the PS2 in shitty third world countries was equally rampant.
I could replace all my Dreamcast memory units with two of these.
But is it worth it?
The PS2s DVD drive was how kids "sold" the idea of getting a PS2 to their parents.
This hurt all the competitors sales a lot but it hit the dreamcast like a bag of nickels.
It sure did. My friends who owned both a PC & a Dreamcast, were pirating Dreamcast games left & right. I didn't own a PC at the time, but I wish I had due to how cool the internet was back then.
True, which negatively affected the sales of Dreamcast games.
100% it did. Sega tried to expand their user base by either selling it cheaper or offer them a free Dreamcast if they sign up for SegaNet. This was done to combat the piracy, hence why they made an anti-piracy patch on newer models of the Dreamcast. I don't think it made a difference if the PS2 was competing or not, piracy plagued the Dreamcast, insuring it's quick demise.
LOL, read the thread before posting.
Nah. I'm 100% factually correct.
PS1 had piracy year one. Stores were selling the console already chipped with pirated games at $1 a pop. Why didn't it tanked Sony?
Piracy was also rampant on PS2 in the third world, but nope, it definitely killed the Dreamcast and only the Dreamcast.
Piracy wasn't widespread on the PS1, "chipped" or not. The only way it could be sold "chipped", is if it were used. Not many people modded their consoles back then either, nor knew how to "chipped" their PS1. As for selling pirated games for $1 a pop? Funny how I owned a PS1 & absolutely NO ONE tried to sell me a pirated PS1 game. So yeah, it definitely wasn't widespread. Whereas with the Dreamcast, you never had to chip it. All you needed was a CD-R!
U.S.
Holy cope.
>It affected game sales
9 games per console.
>Holy cope.
>9 games per console.
You're the only one coping. Lol Doesn't even make since because basically you're saying people only bought 9 games for tge Dreamcast & pirated the rest, since Dreamcast had over 250+ titles.
>Lol Doesn't even make since because basically you're saying people only bought 9 games for tge Dreamcast
9 games per console in the span of one year and a half is too high for a console that was supposedly killed by piracy you moronic ape.
Nope. 9 is too low. You're not fooling anybody. Lol
It's a bit lower than PS1, but higher than the NES and every xbox. The attach rate was not too low.
Nope. 9 is too low. 50 is average. 100+ would be way too high.
The average person does not buy fifty games for a console that is ridiculous.
Yet I own 50+ or above for almost every system from the years I collected. The only one being dishonest here is you. 9 games or less is way to low for any console owner. That would be like if I bought an Atari Jaguar to only play Alien Vs Predator or if I only bought Splatterhouse for the PC Engine. Definitely not worth it.
Holy fricking shit, you're moronic.
You buying a copy of a game now won't give any of those companies any money.
No, what's moronic is thinking piracy doesn't kill gaming companies(both console makers & publishers) and unlike you, I bought my games when they were brand new. So yes my money did go to the companies that make the game.
You must have grew up poor.
Except I am, I bought many of the games I own brand new.
There's no rules against playing video games in any religion.
There is overwhelming evidence both ITT and elsewhere that proves otherwise. If it’s your mission to ignore all of that just for the sake of keeping this bait thread alive, then bravo— here is your (You).
You are not the average consumer
Agreed. Usually multiple games would sell millions of copies. Gaming is a billion dollar industry.
The absolute state of this fricking board, holy frick.
No, it's fricking not.
Anglos will never understand piracy.
Whole Europe, Whole Hispano América, South Asia and North Africa were piracy central, 8 out of 10 psx and ps2 were pure piracy. GBA too. And don't make me speak about PC games.
Iran was definitely 100% nothing but pirated games as far as I could tell. Literally nobody owned a Dreamcast though, at least no one I knew. And I’m pretty sure I never saw and DC games being sold over there either. It was all just PlayStation and PC (aside from older Genesis games and bizarre Asian bootleg machines).
Aren't all videogames haram?
The average Iranian is far more socially secular than I guess most people elsewhere realize, but there definitely was some pretty hilarious censorship back then to prevent the moral police from forcing vidya merchants to close shop.
Pic related, for example, I remember clearly as being one of the more absurd examples. In order to sell the disc, the guy at the shop used a green marker to draw pretend pants and an undershirt on Nina and Julia. Makes me wonder why they used the NTSC-U disc artwork in any case, unless the PAL version used the same renders.
TL;DR — Depends on who you ask.
videos games are sinful according to Christian doctrine but all Christians play them
Over here, the editor of the local gaming mag (run by the biggest local gaming store chain) said that, once the boot disc was available, their hardware sales remained the same but game sales plummeted to nothing.
I’d wager a guess that the software sales were never that hot to begin with. Them plummeting to 0 by that point was inevitable.
What country are you from?
why would piracy kill the dreamcast? shouldn't its hardware sales have exploded once people realized they could get games for free?
It didn’t. Piracy was very common on both the PS1 and PS2 as well.
Because it affected game sales. The idea of Dreamcast surviving because of piracy is just delusional.
Not true. Both consoles were hard to pirate.
PS1 piracy was trivial
"what if?" threads should be banned
Ah yes, it's totally normal for a kid or teen to get 50 games for his console in less than 2 years.
It's already a bit odd for a child to have 50 pirated games (which is possible, but in pratice you just stick to the first few good games you got), let alone 50 original games.
I'm going through Dreamcast right now and it's library after only 2 years on the market before being discontinued is pretty insane.
Imagine if it could have gotten another 2.
Piracy killed MY Dreamcast. When I found out that it could play burned ISO's I made a bunch of them. I noticed that the CD's were spinning faster than the GD's, I never used the CD player to listen to music on my DC, who did? I thought nothing of it and kept playing Border Down and other obscure Japanese shoot 'em ups when....BANG! My motor burned out, my DreamCast would not play anything after that. I think it was dying anyway, I remember Capcom Vs SNK wouldn't start unless I turned the console upside down, I had to do that for some other games for some reason.