do you consider it as "pretentious"?
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do you consider it as "pretentious"?
do you consider it as "pretentious"?
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No but time has aged its empty world.
It has always been empty.
We realized that from day 1, it's a fun enough boss run. Could've been something more though.
I kind of disagree. It's meant to be a relatively lowkey navigation puzzle, I'd honestly rather than than cramming it full of bullshit treadmill activities.
I literally had more fun exploring sotcs world than any other open world game i can think of. I spent hours just running around.
I felt like it was already empty when I first played it as a kid. Minimalism was kind of a choice to a degree but damn the game could've been so much more.
>empty world
:/
>empty world, nintendo
😮
>hdd&opl@Fat in 2023
Still a Good Game!
no, but it's overrated
No because it actually delivers on its pretensions.
No, I consider the people who enjoy such a shallow experience pretentious. The game is fine as a tech demo for it's time.
I played it for the first time in 2020 with PS Now on PC (PS3 HD version) and I never realized I could increase my stamina and hunt lizards. Still loved it. Thanks for reading my blog.
If you increase your stamina enough you can climb the temple and reach a secret area
>ubisoft towers, Japan
yes,its garbage
Not at all. It's a masterpiece.
It's the only Ueda game developed for the PS2 from start to finish. Ico started as a PS1 game, with the gameplay remaining almost intact after switching to PS2. Only new addition was the "combat" against smoke creatures.
he only did that because homosexuals complained that colossus world was empty and you had frick all to do once you got the fruits and geckos.
>goes back in time to fix previous game after criticisms of the next
Truly an auteur genius
yes it's why it's called the last guardian.
No because I like it
Besides the music track "Resurrection" and some lines of dialogue, not really.
>Besides the music track "Resurrection"
explain
resurrection is immaculate
Absolutely not, but something has to be Ergo Proxy levels of autofellatic for me to consider it pretentious.
>but something has to be Ergo Proxy levels of autofellatic for me to consider it pretentious.
When did Ergo Proxy ever act pretentious about anything?
When almost every single character was named after psychoanalysts and post-structuralist philosophers despite the characters in question often having literally nothing to do with the person who they're referencing. Like why is the antag's robot maid named Kristeva? There's a bajillion other examples of the show sucking itself off but that's just the one that's in your face every episode.
I still liked the gameshow episode and the one where they're waiting for wind
>I still liked the gameshow episode and the one where they're waiting for wind
Ergo in general had some really neat ideas for episodes, and some very good use of forshadowning.
But I do agree with you on the fact that it also REALLY wants to seem a lot fricking smarter than it is.
It reminds me of the same error that Johnatan Blow keeps making. You have some pretty neat and clever ideas - you don't need to then drown them with additional layers of pretentious bullshit.
Ego Proxy could have been great if it took itself a little less seriously, and tried a little less hard on impressing people with it's endless namedrops.
>It reminds me of the same error that Johnatan Blow keeps making. You have some pretty neat and clever ideas - you don't need to then drown them with additional layers of pretentious bullshit.
I totally get this criticism comes to Braid (seriously if the whole Nuclear Bomb angle was intentional then what the frick was he thinking) but honestly I thought all the more out-there stuff in The Witness was pretty justified for a game about perspective. At least the things being referenced actually reinforce the game's themes rather than just being irrelevant asides.
>seriously if the whole Nuclear Bomb angle was intentional then what the frick was he thinking
It absolutely is, and it's such a stupid way to sour the otherwise brilliant ending, just because Blow wanted to also prove what an amazing postmodernist he totally is.
>I thought all the more out-there stuff in The Witness was pretty justified for a game about perspecti
I will say that Witness is overal far better at what it tries to tell than Braid. The shit that was needlessly tackled on to Braid at the end, is now front and center in Witness, and the game is designed from the grounds up to convey it.
I don't like Witness. I hate the puzzles, I hate the world and atmosphere - but I damn well respect it on a purely conceptual level. The guy has a core thought he wants to convey, and he manages to do that almost ENTIRELY through what is some of the purest gameplay imaginable.
That is an achievement. There is only one studio I know what succeeded in this whole "convey meaning through GAMEPLAY" on a comparable level.
So from a strictly design perspective, I admire Witness for that specific ingenuity.
But Blow has still has to ruin it in some needless and annoying way again. It's nowhere near as bad as the ending to Braid, but shit like having you wait for how long, hours, to get some of the final puzzles - that is just tedious bullshit and again - actually does not contribute to the message.
The message was already made, long before that, this is just him trying to hammer it down. You don't have to waste time being FORCED to listen to hours of lectures that are explicitly there to not really say anything, because the point is really about plurality of perspectives, not individual beliefs.
The length of the videos is much less bothersome if you find them interesting in-and-of-themselves (at that point you're just watching stuff you'd've already been down to watch even outside of the context of The Witness), but iirc you have to wait for a specific part for one of the puzzles and restart the whole video if you frick it up which is absolutely infuriating.
>but iirc you have to wait for a specific part for one of the puzzles and restart the whole video if you frick it up which is absolutely infuriating.
Yeah. And it's exactly the sort of thing I consider a product of a pretty insecure person.
And it is tragic because Blow does not need to be insecure about his intelligence. He is genuinely one of the best game designers I know. He is there with Dybowsky and Pope.
The only thing really holding him back is his unhealthy desire to prove his own intelligence, and that is just really tragic to me.
Please pay attention to context.
1. All the characters with psychoanalyst names or with a logic based in philosophy pre-apocalypse eventually die tragically, self-destruct or lose their minds while trying to justify themselves.
2. The philosopher heads do absolutely nothing of value but stick in their room repeating pretentious horse shit to eachother and devolve into "raison d'etre" and die doing nothing.
3. The main characters who don't know dick squat about anything let alone philosophy go out into the world with their mascot Pino, the icon of curiosity, ignorance and purity and learn about their situation, themselves and return to the dome with a better understanding.
The whole show was basically saying knowing philosophy alone doesn't do shit all for you, experience is a better teacher than books and "programming" you learn from old psychoanalysts.
Too bad none of that made the plot any more entertaining
Speak for yourself, I watched it three times and loved every minute.
Please don't hinge your opinion of something on superficial shit like how bombastic a slow burn character-focused anime is going to be, or get upset at psychology being references at all without regarding why it's being put in.
My opinion is that the plot wasn't engaging and the only interesting character was Pino.
Texhnolyze > Shit Proxy
>open the thread
>read through the posts
>never watched Ergo Proxy but always thought that it was similar to Texnolyze, one of my favorites
Guess I'm not the only one since you decided to compare the two
NTA, but your argument is "the references are good because they don't actually contribute anything, because the message is that these authors don't contribute to anything."
That is a pretty wonky line of reasoning, in fact I'm pretty sure a lot of elements speak directly against it. Like the fact that cogito - another obvious reference to work of a philosopher - is entirely 100% relevant to the plot, undermining the point you claim the show is making.
The same goes for the show wasting more than one episode to say "Yeah, Ophellia is a famous picture" - again completely failing to support your explanation.
There are also some other pretty major issues. Like the show being frequently straight up dishonest with the audience. Like when early on, the main due is shown - explicitly shown - to board the plane and fly off, only to later reveal that was a bait-and-switch, and the ship was piloted by the old dude.
That is just cheap.
But the biggest issue here is that the plot of Ergo Proxy - the actual main plot - is just nonsensical garbage. It's a silly variation on battle royal, a completely flimsy and poorly put together excuse to do the one thing the show is genuinely good at - creative reinterpretations of what a battle between supernatural entities can mean.
But the plot is silly, and very poorly structured to the boot. The overal plot exists PURELY to justify the neat episodal gimmicks.
Which makes any meaning you infer from the presence of philosophical names being dropped even weaker.
>NTA, but your argument is "the references are good because they don't actually contribute anything
And your argument is "the references are bad because they are referenced at all". You can't just start throwing a homosexual fit over a psychoanalyst being namedropped when the focus is trying to be on who is saying it and why they're saying it, not on the fricking psychoanalyst.
> Like the fact that cogito - another obvious reference to work of a philosopher - is entirely 100% relevant to the plot,
The relevance to the plot is that robots are thinking now, not the fact it's called a cogito virus.
Also need I remind you the entire dome system is run by robots following their programming who are fed human philosophy shit as part of their programming so all they know is repeating old humanity crap to justify what they're doing.
The main characters break free of that.
>that the plot of Ergo Proxy - the actual main plot - is just nonsensical garbage.
What? It's pretty simple, they leave the safe dome where their lives are dictated for them and learn the truth about the past and what happened to the world.
>It's a silly variation on battle royal,
Except there's barely any battles at all and the focus is never fights.
You're a fricking idiot, I'm not even sure you even watched the show. You've done nothing but sling false information and lies this whole time. I have no respect for you and I will not be entertaining you with a discussion. Good day, sir.
>And your argument is "the references are bad because they are referenced at all".
That is an even worse argument. Also, you need to calm down.
If the point is not to focus on the name the show is dropping, than why the frick do you even introduce that reference.
>system is run by robots following their programming who are fed human philosophy shit as part of their programming
But they are not. They merely have those names. Nothing that the A.I. called Lacan in any way reflects Lacan's philosophy. Nothing about the government of the Dome reflects any of the philosophers mentioned in those scenes.
>What? It's pretty simple, they leave the safe dome where their lives are dictated for them and learn the truth about the past and what happened to the world.
Except it's all meaningless.
>Except there's barely any battles at all and the focus is never fights.
Wow. You are a moron, aren't you? Could not even read what I wrote, for frick sake.
Go back to what I wrote, for heaven's sake. Pay attention to the following lines in particular:
>the one thing the show is genuinely good at - creative reinterpretations of what a battle between supernatural entities can mean.
Did you even watch the damn show? How did you missed that 70% of all episodes are ultimately battles of proxy vs. proxy, because and I quote: "At the end only one can remain alive."
How the frick did you miss that entire fricking point. The game-show? Battle between Ergo and another proxy. Disneyland - battle between Ego and another Proxy. The schizo episode? Battle between proxies.
Literally the entire story is that there is a completely arbitrary contest between a bunch of powerful beings that are forced to fight to death when they meet, until only one remains.
That is a fricking battle royal. I'll give them credit - the way they conceptualize these battles is genuinely cool and creative.
But somehow, this part was lost on you, which is really sad, all things considering.
Dumbass, adamantly spreading lies once again and defending his knee-jerk reactions, refusing to think and believes his initial reaction is always the right one. You are the most ignorant subhuman monkey to ever crawl out of this fetid website. People like you are the reason nobody attempts to make meaningful stories anymore, you get unreasonably upset when anyone tries, you ignore a show's merits and you are obsessed with being reductive because your attention span is that of a fly's and you must consume everything as quick as possible and move on. have a nice day.
>Dumbass, adamantly spreading lies once again and defending his knee-jerk reactions, refusing to think and believes his initial reaction is always the right one. You are the most ignorant subhuman monkey to ever crawl out of this fetid website
Yeah, buddy - you have a very serious mental health problem here. You are completely and utterly insecure, and you cling to this show to justify yourself, and fend off that niggling fear that you might be an idiot.
That is why you react with such absurd vitriol, why you lash out like a mad-man instead of actually formulating any counter-points.
As for:
>People like you are the reason nobody attempts to make meaningful stories anymore, you get unreasonably upset when anyone tries
Buddy, I literally teach courses on following authors:
Jorge Luis Borges, Milorad Pavić, Bruno Schultz, Andrey Platonov, Franz Kafka, Kobó Abe, Alfred Kubín, Umberto Eco, Italo Calvino, Witold Gombrowicz, Julio Cortázar, Günter Grass and Michal Ajvaz.
That is about 60% of my life, these people right there.
What do you think that means?
>The whole show was basically saying knowing philosophy alone doesn't do shit all for you
To be a bit of a hairsplitting dick there's an episode where the protagonist literally has to answer irrelevant philosophy questions about Pascal and Archimedes or whatever to save their life. I don't remember (you probably know the show better so you tell me) how many Vincent actually got correct but I have to reckon it was at least some of them. It's yet another example of the show's cloying compulsion to namedrop at every opportunity.
>To be a bit of a hairsplitting dick there's an episode where the protagonist literally has to answer irrelevant philosophy questions about Pascal and Archimedes or whatever to save their life.
The gameshow episode? Hosted by an antagonist? Who was trying to kill him?
Who woulda thought it would be rigged!!!!!
Vincent bumbled every single question afaik and it's been a while so I forgot how he survives.
>It's yet another example of the show's cloying compulsion to namedrop at every opportunity.
The namedropping is done entirely by people with self-importance issues and the main characters who don't know anything about philosophy survive and come out on top instead of following all the horse shit they've been fed all their lives.
Context is key. I cannot stress this enough.
shut up homosexual
PS2 version is a visual masterpiece. It all boils down to the art direction.
What kind of fricking moron calls a game like this pretentious?
People who want (You)s
No, SotC is a legitimate piece of art. But homosexuals that call it a piece of art are pretentious
I love how from the moment that you begin a playthrough, 90% of the world is open to explore. Only areas out of reach are the last colossus' arena and the secret garden/extended bridge.
I love any game where I can climb up a monster to kill it. It’s kino in my book
No, but the people who vehemently recommend it are
It gets a lot more fun once you discover that you can charge a stab in the air afte jumping. You don't have to grab the fur to start charging the stab.
This is obviously not recommended on the flying colossus tho. You have to grab the fur there.
%27sJunk
For me,it's Lakeside
Yeah it's absolutely as good. Pursuer and Lakeside are the best tracks in the game
The last two Zeldas are pretty meditative games, you can even sort of zone out at times while running/gliding towards something you've just spotted while standing on a mountain or something like that. Needless to say that they are also VERY big. SotC is more 'straight to the point'. If you like new Zelda you'll definitely enjoy it. Still haven't played Elden Ring though
For me it's 28 - Gate Watcher of the Castle Ruins ~Battle Theme~
For me, it's this track that plays on colossus 3, 7 and 13.
The bit at 0:36 is chilling. You hear this track on colossus 4 and 12.
Does SOTC offer anything that games like Elden Ring or BOTW haven't replicated and expanded upon? Serious question, I never played it
The word pretentious is pretentious.
Yes. I played it near launch. It was overrated.
Ico was a way better game.
Yes it's for the video games are art crowd
Hey buddy you got the wrong board, Ganker and Ganker are two blocks down.
shush anon it's an open secret that musical, literary, and anime discussion is better on Ganker than on their own respective boards. If only the vidya discussion here was up to par...
OK, I'll make this more game related.
My favorite game of all time is Pathologic.
Still the same point.
We call it Mop Утoпия where I live. Its creator is a weeb by the way
>Its creator is a weeb by the way
Really?! Could not tell at all... If only there were some hints the dev has a schoolgirl fetish and also draws his main inspiration from fricking dating sims...
In all seriousness though - I have absolutely nothing against weebs. God knows I watched a lot of anime in my days. Still do on occassions. My problem with Ergo Proxy is specific to Ergo Proxy. And I don't even hate Ergo Proxy, I thought it was pretty neat at times. I just have an issue with the way it uses references, and some other aspects of the story. I still had fun watching it.
Yeah he unironically took inspiration from 90s VNs.
>Ergo Proxy
Never watched it lmao and I've seen a lot of anime
>Yeah he unironically took inspiration from 90s VNs.
And it ended up great. I mean - IPL has fascinating way of completely veering off course when the make their games. Pathologic - that was originally conceptualized as VN because the studio thought they don't have the know-how or resources to do anything more complex than that.
But it ended up being what inspired the whole time-managed aspect of it.
The Void is even more puzzling to me, because that one was also concieved as a VN, but this time because the studio - and I quote Dybowsky - wanted to make something more cheerful, accessible and uplifting. An actual dating sim with themes of art, colorful and celebrating creativity.
I get how they got from the OG VN script of Pathologic to the finished game. They just kept adding more features to flesh out the world, but stuck to many core ideas, like time management, huge volume of dialogues etc... But I can't for the LOVE of me figure out how that pitch for The Void ended up being the absolute fricking hellish nightmare that game is.
IPL are fricking amazing, my god I love them. To make it more relevant to OP - IPL and Team Ico have very similar weight in my eyes, I think it's a comparable "tier" of creativity.
>Never watched it lmao and I've seen a lot of anime
I'd say... if you like anime, especially stuff like Texhnolyze, SE Lain, Rahxephon, you know the type, it can be worth watching. The show has genuinely good ideas.
It just has a lot of pretentious stuff in too. Depends on your tolerance, but I'd say the good ideas are worth the weaker parts of it.
I should really give Pathologic another try because when it came out I was a kid.
As for Ergo Proxy, it kinda looks like shit to me. No offense to people who like it but if I don't like the art style I just don't bother. Anime is a visual medium after all. I'm a fan of Tex, yes but again I enjoyed it because of its atmosphered achieved by stellar visual and sound design, I literally couldn't understand what was going on throughout the whole show lmao
>I should really give Pathologic another try because when it came out I was a kid.
It's well worth it. Both of them are, each for different reasons. P2 is certainly a lot easier to get into. And there should be an announcement of the next part, soon.
>As for Ergo Proxy, it kinda looks like shit to me. No offense to people who like it but if I don't like the art style I just don't bother.
No offence taken, but I do find it curious, because I always thought Ergo's art direction is one of it's strongest points, and most people I've met agreed. Yeah, it is very drab at times, but that is part of the tone, and the show has some exceptional use of contrasts.
The music and the art direction were what originally sold me on the show, they are the parts the show clearly was spending money on. Visuality is genuinely one of the things I believe the show does very well. In fact - there is literally an entire two-episode segment that is just a giant weird-ass homage to the pre-Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, a while major segment just about recreating their most famous visual compositions. There is like 5-episode segment that just basically various visual homages to Metropolis (the OG one) etc... One episode is made entirely in Disney's style. Like the whole episode, it takes place in Disney-esque world.
Yeah, it seems odd to me that of all the things, visuals would be your problem.
Other than that, it's the kind of show I would call "interesting", but not necessarily "good". So I think it's fair to skip out on it.
original or 2?
>original or 2?
Both. Each is absolutely amazing for a slightly different set of reasons.
Also, from story perspective, it's often kinda hard for me to even separate them.
This scrapped track should've been in final game.
Straight up Ghibli
Nope. Beautiful and unique game. No amount of contrarianism will take that away. Sadly slopped up by sony and israelitepoint but the original will always be great.
No. But the art direction is overrated, the whole point of the game is fighting giant creatures and for that very reason the remake is better because it feels truly Homeric
>remake is better
Opinion discarded. Bluepoint are leeches.
I didn't like DmS but the SOTC remake was great, the high amount of details truly emphasized the feeling of desolation, it felt like the garden of eden
a lost paradise entirely devoid of human life despite its welcoming nature felt quite eerie
meanwhile the original version's atmosphere is a lot more straigthforward when it comes to telling you you're in a shitty place
It's not just SOTC, it's the whole feel of the games from that era.
https://vocaroo.com/16JMkuJxpIA7
your voice sounds gay anon
thanks m8
>Resident Evil 4
>Psychonauts
>Killer7
>SotC
Can we talk about how 2005 had the magnum opus of Shinji Mikami, Tim Schafer, Suda 51 and Fumito Ueda?
Add to the list KH2
Now that you mention it, fricking Pathologic came out that year as well.
You might be onto something here. I never thought of 2005 as videogaming peak - I mostly associate with the gradual begin of decline thanks to it's proximity to shitshows like Thief 3, Invisible War etc... but there is an odd concentration of really interesting games in that year.
Prepare yourself for some contrarianism
>Mikami
1>4>REmake for me
>Suda
NMH>TSC>FSR>Killer7
>Ueda
I like Ico more
KH1>KH2
DMC3 is the best though
Add DMC3
>climb homies and stab them
>pretentious
???
IT INSISTS UPON ITSELF
it's ok, i guess... people were rambling on about it at the time but i still wonder why for
No.
Verification not required.
Should I play the PS3 or PS4 version of this? I don't have access to the PS2 one
How the frick is this game pretentious by the way?
I can't think about another game as direct and straight forward than this gaem
If it was 10-20 years ago I wouldn't. Now I do. Just like how thatgamecompany never managed to recapture that lightning in the bottle that is Journey since that I doubt Team ICO will recapture what they did with Shadow of the Colossus.
Ico was a PS1 game for 1 year and a half, while Last Guardian was a PS3 game for a couple of years. Only SotC was developed for the same system from start to finish.
No, it never was.
You want something pretentious?
Braid.
No, it's a beautiful game and deserves the praise it got. The problem I have with it is games like Journey came out after it and showed that you can do what Shadow of the Colossus was doing in a more concise way.
You could argue that Journey is too short, it's a 3-4 hour game, but it was an indie game with a low price point.
Shadow of the Colossus had to justify its 60$ price tag somehow, and they did it by having 16 Colossi, when it could have made its point with half that many. The story isn't really served by being so long.
But the length is my only problem with it. It's a fantastic game, and was innovative in its time.
Anon it's like 8 hours long
Shame Ico doesn't have progressive scan option on PS2. SotC does tho.
No need for "as" in this sentence, ESL-kun. "Do you consider it 'pretentious'?"
You're welcome, ESL-kun.
Ico was a commercial flop and didn't reach Greatest Hits. Ueda was more lucky with his next game.