do you think ff7(ps1) has a good story?
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do you think ff7(ps1) has a good story?
do you think ff7(ps1) has a good story?
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No. You don't play adventure games for the story.
>JRPG
>adventure game aka visual novel aka game where you make dialogue choices to affect the outcome
Anon...
thats the most stupid statement that i heard today, congrats
The translation ripped all the soul out of it. They should've handed it to Working Designs
Working designs just write fanfiction
>The translation ripped all the soul out of it
As if you've ever played the Japanese version or read the Japanese script, you fricking weeb poseur.
:::Teleports Behind you:::
While I will never comprehend, nor vocalize the poetry that is the Japanese language I have immersed myself deeply in that culture and have learned many things from it. Chief among them is the Path of the Blade. A lesson of which I will visit unto you if you continue to question me.
>The translation ripped all the soul out of it.
why? Because Aerith was called Aeris? Or because of "this guy is sick"?
you can just tell the translation if off sometimes and it breaks the immersion
That line doesn't really bother me. The thing about the FFVII translation is that it was done inhouse at Square.
As this guy stated; it's more to do with semantics than anything else.
Try the translation from Echo-S. The script flows more naturally there and they kept some fun stuff from the english localization now having Cloud say "let's mosey" whenever it fits.
>play the version where the fans fix the piece of shit Square sold us, then you can say Square didn't sell you a piece of shit!
>also, I have 700GB of Skyrim mods installed
Just use New Threat. Reunion and every project using that script is gay. Look at this shit. DLPB unironically thinks that "Moguri" is the proper translation for Moogle. Whole spreadsheet's filled with the most moronic shit imaginable, changing terms and names that are canon across the series because he's a stupid homosexual with a messiah complex.
>New Threat.
ykes, not with that color swaps I wont
>NOT MY HECKING FIELD MODELS CHANGED TO BE MORE SIMILAR TO THE BATTLE MODELS
>I'M GOING INSANE
Imagine missing out on the greatest JRPG romhack ever, lmao.
who said anything of field models?
Whoops, my bad, I didn't immediately assume the worst of you, but I should have. That's even more moronic. Keep on derping, son.
I literally said I dont want to play mods with fricked up color swaps and you said god knows what of field models and now call me moronic.
Take your pills.
You can't even provide an example, and here you are talking about "taking pills," lmao. Maybe you should take them.
here's a fricking example now shut up
And so we return to
It's not the fact that the character models outside of combat were recolored and detailed to be more similar to their combat counterparts, it's the fact that it has new enemies and some recolored ones. Peak moronation. You're dumber than an animated sitcom character.
Not my fault they look awful and molders insert fanfiction bullshit
right, because having bill clinton jokes (this example is specifically from lunar 2) wouldn't have been any worse
If anything the shitty translation added soul with lines like "Let's Mosey" perfectly capturing how awkward Cloud actually is after losing the Zack Act.
The translation is where the soul is. Turns out Square has been garbage the whole time.
>3 discs
was such a selling point to 12 year old me
my dick was totally blown off when ff8 came out and had FOUR (4) discs
Disc 4 was literally a few places on the world map and the final castle, they could have fit that shit on 3 discs. They just needed some metric to make people think it was better than 7 in some way (more discs = it must have a better and more epic story!)
it worked
>they could have fit that shit on 3 discs
Then they would have needed to put "insert disc 4" after the player defeats Ultimecia, for the lengthy, disc-filling ending FMV.
I would say it has an engaging story at least and the characters are likeable.
Good story. Terrible presentation
Story is the least important component of writing.
In terms of thematics, it just did what they already covered in FF7,
However, what FF7 did well was playing around with structure, and all the unreliable narrator trickery. That was very innovative. And of course nobody noticed any of it because you dick heads are obsessed with your plot/story and are too dim to notice all the interesting stuff around it.
>it just did what they already covered in FF7,
i meant ff6
The way FF7 delivered the plot was so good, including the use of music to set the atmosphere, the pacing of delivery and timing of reveals, the unreliable narrator combined with drips of truth and uncertainty as you progress through the game was fantastic (including some of the optional plot content that you can miss, like the recordings at Professor Gast's house, being able to meet Lucrecia, etc.)
The nuts and bolts of the FF7 plot is entirely unremarkable as it basically fits the "an ancient evil awakens" trope. What's special is the whole package.
The way the world design extrapolates at a similar gradual pace to the revelations in the plot despite most of them referring to circumstances that predate the events of the game not necessarily tied to the places you're going is pretty interesting and executed well.
Combining heady themes like ego and spirituality with tropes that are shamelessly anime was pretty novel back then, it's only dime-a-dozen now because of things like FFVII and Eva getting big.
I dont think many people today understand how important the music was to that game. Its sort of lost on the Remake once you bring in voice acting but they definitely do a good job reimagining the OST. Sucks that the new songs arent very good.
Only Midgard. After that it becomes dumb.
>Midgard
have a nice day, dipshit phoneposting homosexual wienersucker.
Yeah it was definitely intriguing enough to hook you, especially when Sephiroth shows up and all hell breaks loose. The pacing is really the best part, there’s always something to immediately work towards instead of just milling around doing gay meaningless side quests or main story distraction filler content as has plagued FF since 13. 16 was especially egregious with it
is it worth doing the tower defense minigame?
Yes. It's mandatory if you want all four of the Huge Materia, and as a consequence, the Master Materia, which are ridiculously helpful for lategame stuff
Leave it until late game when you have some gil to spend and it's easy.
You can just cheese every mission with the Steve guide
Can't you just ignore it from start to finish, then appear there for the final battle, don't buy any of the shit for defense and just let the enemy march to the end, and then just kill the enemy general in normal battle and still save the great materia this way? Is it even POSSIBLE to fail this one at all without having a game over anyway?
Yeah, you can get some good rewards from it. The first one you can do gets you a decent weapon for red 13, as an example. It's ridiculously easy to cheese, too. Just build a bunch of basic fighters and rush the bottom, or build one and then build another one lower than that on repeat since your build line is based on the lowest point your dudes are at.
Yeah, it's pretty gud.
Way better than the DEmake's.
I prefer the remake just because the facial expressions and voice acting mog the shitty translated text boxes
Well you're a homosexual, and VA / animations have nothing to do with the STORY. If anything, text-only is way more immersive than those edgy zoomers gasping into their mics every single second.
VA and animations have everything to do with story. Does reading a transcript of Shawshank redemption give you same the emotional impact as watching the movie? No it doesn't.
The text boxes were never an artistic choice and just a product of the hardware limitations
>Does reading a transcript of Shawshank redemption give you same the emotional impact as watching the movie?
No, but READING the Lord Of The Rings absolutely mogs the shitty film adaptation.
Again, reading activates your own imagination, resulting superior immersion. Not that surprising that the aphantasia npcs wouldn't get it.
Not to mention we were talking about THE story, not its presentation.
THe FF7 DEmake is a fricking SEQUEL to the even older SEQUEL OF FF7, the Advent Children. It is just masqueraded as a "remake", trying to be some sort of meta-level joke about the history and culture of FF7. Thus, it's a wet slap in the faces of not only the OG fans, but the newbies that started playing it, expecting a faithful retelling.
On top of this, the nu-7 is written absolutely awfully, paced like shit, and both plays and looks awful. AND it is not even a finished GAME, but an episodic clusterfrick, that's now apparently turning into Ubishit openworld with literal Far Cry towers.
>No, but READING the Lord Of The Rings absolutely mogs the shitty film adaptation.
this and the film adaptation of lotr is one of the best film adaptations kek
you just sound like a pompus butthole. FF7 isn't a book its a game and like other visual mediums sound design and visuals go hand in hand.
Video games can utilize ALL media format's strenghts and methods. Non-voiced characters are by default better, because then you're not held back by shitty acting, forming the characters in your own head.
The sound-design side covered by the brilliant OST, that is used to create the gorgeous atmosphere of the game. Together with the beautiful vistas of each and every scene in the game, it provides one endlessly more memorable and striking experience than the ugly, phoned in de-make ever will.
>and all Cloud does in the original game is *shrug* thats the extent of his in-game emotes.
Not at all, mate. The beauty in the OG (and many "silent" games really) is the fact that it's YOUR emotions and reactions that play the central part in the story. Again, if you're a shallow, emotioneless brick, you couldn't even begin to understand such basic feature.
I can think of plenty of games where the story wouldn't have worked nearly as well if it wasn't voiced. Bioshock for example with the reveal of andrew ryan wouldn't nearly hit as hard if it was text boxes.
Are we now pretending that BS would have a good story?
Are we now pretending it doesn't?
I don't need to.
HAHAHAH
THIS PICREL BUT INSTEAD OF SHINRA NOW SQUARE ENIX IS FRICKING THE BLOOD OF OF FINAL FANTASY 7 HAHAHAHAH
FRICKING SQUARECELS ON SUICIDE WATCH
NICE OF YOU TO KILL THE FRANCHISE!!!!!
>that image
>the FFX part
When was the last time this person who made this post PLAYED FFX? Was it in 2001 when they were in awe of the cutscenes and voice acting? Because damn, replaying the game in 2017 on Steam after almost 15 years felt like a slog by the time you got to Luca. All it is before then is lore, tutorial battles, exposition, tutorial battles, more exposition, lore, and a few hand holding boss battles. Oh and a game of blitzball that's almost impossible to win for 1st time players and completely based around RNG because as a minigame its not that good.
Besaid to Luca are a bit of a slog, yes, but it still starts quick. You frick around in Zanarkand for barely 5 minutes before the city explodes, you fight a bunch of monsters and then Sin flies down like a fleshy UFO and abducts tidus. It immediately vomits him out in the middle of nowhere, he almost gets eaten by a monster, fights another monster, then the Al Bhed blow the doors off. Tidus gets shanghaied into a salvage boat crew, fights an octopus, salvages some ancient tech, gets told that he's now 1000 years in the future, gets attacked by Sin and abducted again, and THEN he shows up in Besaid and the game's pace slows way down. But the opening is still packed full of a ton of shit.
also
>blitzball match is RNG
apply jecht shot to goal then get the ball back and play keepaway, it basically always works
>but it still starts quick.
I wish that were the case. The battles with Auron don't feel enjoyable and what comes after is nonstop story. At least with FFVII its diced up enough until you leave Midgar and only at Kalm do you come to your major stopgap with Cloud telling his false backstory.
The intros for 7 and 10 are fantastic, some of the best in gaming and the genre. 14 isn't as good as either but I still enjoyed it quite a bit.
perfectly said.
that other anon is a tasteless homosexual or is trolling
>No, but READING the Lord Of The Rings absolutely mogs the shitty film adaptation
It actually doesn't. It provides a different experience but not an experience that mogs or gets btfo'd by another one. You sound like an underage purist homosexual.
I appreciate the books for what they are but they're pretty dry and longwinded by comparison. The movies are fricking incredible but I saw the movies first so I might be biased. I would still recommend reading through them though.
>It actually doesn't.
Not him, but yes it does. There's a lot of lore and story in the books that don't convey into the narration of the movies and it really underscores a lot of the characters and plot points. Frodo's depiction in the movies is way too passive and weak, some of that is due to the actor Elijah Wood (who looks and acts like a b***h) but also just the changes in the overall story like Arwen saving him from the Nazgul rather than Frodo fleeing on horseback alone and even when cornered at a river shows his resolve to stand up against them.
The movies are not companion pieces to the books and the books aren't companion pieces to the movies. They're different entities sharing the same name. The quality of the changes whether you like them are not, are subjective to the watcher. Some might prefer them, some might hate them. Again. Different experiences. You are an underage moron for thinking one is objectively better than the other because they're completely different pieces of media. It's like comparing a painting to a comicbook.
the facial expressions and awkward stilted dialogue are fricking atrocious.
there's like 3 hours of autistic anime grunts in the game instead of dialogue. have a nice day anime brainrot gay.
and all Cloud does in the original game is *shrug* thats the extent of his in-game emotes. Even in the cutscene where Aerith gets stabbed his face is completely emotionless.
You can't be this dumb.
He can be and is.
Cloud has a whole fricking speech when Aerith dies.
and the best thing about it is that's it's not delivered with terrible voice acting, awkward unnatural pauses, an out of place exposition dump about time travel bullshit and 50 fricking anime sounds inserted in there for no reason. *tchhc *ehegh *gughhh
Cloud: ...Shut up. The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry......What about us...... what are WE supposed to do? What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!
I didn't feel anything when she died and the "speech" definitely didn't help move the needle.
Because you're gay
Cloud is a dumb homosexual and Aerith is mary sue
>Aerith will no longer...
b***h somehow manages to influence the planet to stop the nuke meteorite of doom Sephiroth was driving towards the planet.
If the story was more realistic Sephiroth would have won, what a bullshit ass pull is that shitty ending. Its so fricking gay.
Hmmmmmmmm
Sephiroth falls in love with Cloud.
Unable to confess, he is gifted by a deus ex machina (Jenova) with the Ex-SOLDIER's phone number. Never minding the strange area code, he immediately calls him, and is overjoyed to find out that he has a crush on him as well.
But, the next day, when Sephiroth recounts the previous day's confessions to Cloud, he only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, he finds out that the Cloud he called is not the same Cloud he fell in love with. In fact, he doesn't exist in this universe at all. He is Cloud's alternate universe counterpart, who has fallen in love with the Sephiroth's own AU self, who too is blissfully unaware of his crush.
Hijinks ensue as the two strike up a deal to give each other their darkest, most private secrets in order to equip the other with the weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves. While the two chase their respective loved ones, DRAMA ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the NATURE of LOVE.
kys
better than FF7Rs because yikes that shit is cringe.
Yes
Great from start to finish.
no
not good, not bad, it's just an excuse to go from place to place
Yes, it was fine.
good? debatable
interesting? absolutely
It's a serviceable story elevated by presentation and soundtrack. Most of the story could have been anything for me, I just really wanted to kill Sephiroth. Fricking butthole.
26 years ago? yeah
When all the deepest mysteries are translation errors.
Strategically placed translation errors!!
If FF7 doesn't have a good story then no game does.
untrue, Vagrant Story is the only Japanese videogame to ever have a good story
It is a good story, but great characters.
FFVII gets a lot of flak because it has some glaring typos that managed to ship, but everything I've seen concerning how faithful it is to the original Japanese reflects that it's pretty accurate. The biggest thing is the "Sephiroth clone" angle but you could argue it's semantics more than a poorly localized term, like it isn't hard to put two and two together about them wanting to make Sephiroth 2 even if it isn't technically a literal "clone" of him.
Yes. Very good one. It didn't break its premises, had twists, had mystery and intrigue, had a multitude of tones, had a perfect balance between serious and humorous, had an excellent cast, had drama instead of melodrama, had good pacing, had a thematic side and made sense.
In terms of stories: VI > VII > IX > XIII-2 > V > III > BCVII > II > IV > X-2 > I > LRXIII > XII > X > DoCVII > CCVII > XIII > XV > VIII > VIIR
You can spot a shit opinion based on where 9, 10, and 8 are.
This here is a shit opinion.
You're right, he should've placed VIII at the very end.
B^U tier
Mucho texto
Sorry, I fricking despise VIII, but Meta is an even worse story aspect to me than contrivance and Fate. The order stands.
the jokes are good but it needs half the text.
The Cloud Nibelheim twist is still one of my favorite in gaming.
final fantasy 7 is still perfect
Yes. Cloud's reveal in disc 2 is a well-executed, cathartic payoff.
While in Midgar? Yes.
Post-Midgar? No.
Yeah but it has some major low points because of its PHS system, optional characters being unimportant and constant backtracking after Cloud puts himself back together. The materia hunting was atrocious and Cait Sith legit is just a bad character. Zack is also kind of a footnote which doesn't sit right with me considering he was Cloud's best friend.
Cait Sith wasn't exactly a bad character in the sense of story. It was design and party usefulness that made him irrelevant. The whole Shinra Spy Infiltrating AVALANCHE/The Party was well done, but Reeve has access to almost literally infinite funding and he chose THAT design. Did we need another white human male in the party? No. But Squaresoft already had their token beast-creature archetype. Reeve could have chosen a better robot
>Did we need another white human male in the party? No.
This is because Cait Sith wasn't originally a robot.
Zack being more present wouldn't work with the denial aspect of it all.
I have to say that the game strikes a personality and drives the player very effectively despite some pretty clear flaws that are easy to point to.
>death's impact dependent on usage of Aeris who isn't interesting enough to make it into most parties for a prolonged period
>cait sith's design and "death" scene
>general ease of the game
>sometimes weird animations making battle feel off (still way better than FF8 or 9. 9 is dogshit unbearable with how slow the battles are)
There are some decent mods to flesh out the potential of the battle system and put it into a better place.
>Zack being more present wouldn't work with the denial aspect of it all.
No one said he should be present before Cloud pieces his memories together but Zack's just never spoken about again after the reveal. You even have to see how he died in an optional very easy to miss cutscene
Yes because he wasn't really important to the story beyond representing what Cloud aspired to be.
Everything is unimportant with a mindset like that. Fact is instead of Materia hunting we could have dwelved more into each characters' motitvation and past to squeeze out all the juice they have
Play Crisis Core then. It was information that didn't need to be elaborated on.
Why not? Why is Cloud forming a friendship and stealing the identity of his friend not something that could be expanded on in a game that is all about him and his loss of identity
's impact dependent on usage of Aeris who isn't interesting enough to make it into most parties for a prolonged period
You don't even need to use Aeris with her insanely broken limit breaks, the Enemy Skills materia is so OP in Disc 1.
>9 is dogshit unbearable with how slow the battles are
This is what I like about the port and the Moguri Mod, speeds shit up.
The game is already broken. I just beat it recently and I was surprised with how easy it was. The only way you'd think the game was hard would be if you hadn't developed a reading and comprehension level yet.
>>cait sith's design and "death" scene
it's been years since I played this but it goes something like, he sacrifices himself somehow in the temple for some reason, something about the black materia and then a new cait sith comes and goes "Hi, I'm cait sith 2!" and no one in the party ever questions it right? I vaguely remember laughing about how moronic this was with my dad
They didn't question it, because there was an emergency with Cloud fracturing Aerith's skull at the moment and presumably the party questions Cait Sith #2 about it after, while Cloud's unconscious.
Sure but the player never getting an explanation afterwards while he's still in your party is so moronic.
Cloud was actually beating aeris's feet
I think at that point everyone already knows that its just a robot, which makes the "big" sacrifice extremely meaningless and their reaction to it nonsense.
The game is trying to spin this dude sacrificing his rc car so that other people don't have to die as some sort of virtuous act and that he's not as bad as he seems to be in spote of him working for the games evil corporation and him already betraying you at that point
>Zack is just a footnote
That's the whole point of his character, frickface. Zack is the bright-eyed, strapping man that Cloud pretended he was. Zack was way more deserving of being a hero and reaping the rewards. He was strong, selfless, brave, and heroic. It's why what happens is all the more depressing.
Zack, in an attempt to save his best friend, gets attacked and gunned-down by the same military he served in. No goodbyes, no parades, nothing. He's just shot dead and left to rot outside a city erected to human greed. It's why the original story will always be better, because it's just a quiet, short scene where his life is treated like it's nothing and that's that.
It's also why Aeris liked Cloud, because Cloud was pretending to be like Zack. Honestly, the foreshadowing in this game is handled so well. Then Square just spit all over everything with the Remake because they're stupid hacks.
>It's also why Aeris liked Cloud, because Cloud was pretending to be like Zack.
She still says it hurts her whenever he acts like Zack. She likes him for the opposite reason.
It shouldn't be the point of your best friend to be a footnote you moron. You can cry "LE THEMES" all you want but many people would like to at least have a talk about their best friend dying.
>because it's just a quiet, short scene where his life is treated like it's nothing and that's that
What does that have to do with Cloud not even mentioning Zack after that? Do you just parrot whatever you hear from e-celeb or something instead of engaging what people tell you? Zack dies a hero to save his friend. He didn't get a celebration for it but he never asked for that anyway.
>Aeris
Aerith.
>Cloud was pretending to be like Zack.
Cloud was pretending to be what he considered to be a cool first class soldier, not Zack. He has the memories of Zack but doesn't really act like him.
Cloud NEVER acted like Zack except for the fake Niebelheim flashback.
To this day I am still not sure if it's just trolling or if people GENUINELY equate the endless blabbermouth that is Zack in the flashback to the thorny dismissive cool merc persona of Cloud from the start of the game.
It's fanfiction. People think he somehow absorbed Zack's memories and believed he lived Zack's entire life.
Admittedly, the reality of the situation is kind of hard to grasp unless you played it as an adult. Jenova's remodeling of his personality is subtle enough to miss to casual players. For most, I imagine they played the game as kids, remember him taking Zack's place and just sort of fill in the blanks themselves.
Perhaps it's just those who missed the optional cutscene that only triggers if you return to Shinra mansion after Cloud regains his real self. It's the only part that really unambiguously characterizes Zack in the OG. Though I guess there are people who might still insist that "Zack only acted nicely because Cloud is his friend and/or a 'silent listener', and he'd be just as dismissive and cold as Cloud toward anyone else" but that seems a little forced and far-fetched.
he did get some of zack memories, otherwise he wouldnt know and we couldnt see how sephiroth finds jenova
You could dismiss this with "Zack told him while they were riding on the back of the truck" and just presume that he filled in the blanks with the things he saw when he was actually in those rooms later.
>"Dude, he just ripped out that metallic Jenova cover and threw it to the side, maybe you still saw it lying on the ground when you ran in later on, right?"
he has jenova cells, he was conected with zack, whats troubling about him geting some of zack memories? what's the issue again?
To be fair to them Cloud himself says that he mixed his own life with that of Zack's to create the this fantasy he lived in. It's good that Rebirth is coming out to give additional clarity what he means by that. It's pretty funny watching Cloud act so excited despite Zack at this point being more chill and adult already.
>It's good that Rebirth is coming out to give additional clarity what he means by that
talking like a real corporate drone npc that needs le canon explicit answer
You're projecting a lot there my guy. Does it hurt your feefees getting some clarity on things that weren't meant to be confusing?
There's no confusion at all and this wouldnt even matter to the original game cause this remake shit is its own crap.
Cloud wanted to be in soldier but couldnt make it, Zack did, they were friends or partners in a mission.
Both got heavily damage, got infused with mako and jenova cells that warped their character and memories.
Cloud had a desire to be like Zack and with the mako poison he did get strong and also got some of the memories of Zack throuh the jenova cells.
He end up believing his own bullshit so deeply that remembering them made him doubt his own character and thought he was a clone or some made up puppet.
What's there to clarify? That he had the same mannerisms? We already see in the original game how Zack is more wienery and has that pose and stand, what else do you need?
What do you need in the rebirth remake? That he sleeps in the same position? That he jerk offs the same way? homie please
>There's no confusion at all
You seem to be extremely confused by this conversation. People to this day are debating what happened. You yourself couldn't even remember that Cloud said that he mixed his life with that of Zack and you made that clear with absolute certainty. You don't need to cope. Having more clarity on what happened can be fun. If you don't want that only foaming out of your mouth with buzzwords and being wrong on Ganker getting corrected by other anons then have fun with that. No one is stopping you.
>People to this day are debating what happened
people are extremely moronic, yes, and they need some new japanese guy who had no part in the original to "throw some light"on a question that was already answered or given enough information so that you, the player, could made up his mind and learn
> yourself couldn't even remember that Cloud said that he mixed his life with that of Zack and you made that clear with absolute certainty.
what are you even talking about?
>Cloud had a desire to be like Zack and with the mako poison he did get strong and also got some of the memories of Zack throuh the jenova cells.
The whole bit of Cloud as a "mere grunt" getting a "cutscene win" over Sephiroth was to demonstrate that his true power comes from within and not from Mako and Jenova stuff. Even after regaining his self he didn't fully accept that yet, as he was still in a phase where he felt quite guilty over everything he had done so far. I thought it was pretty obvious that the only one who considers himself weak was he himself, considering the whole band dismiss his mopey bullshit and tell him to do what he already did the whole journey, which is leading the party to victory against Sephiroth and Shinra.
>to demonstrate that his true power comes from within and not from Mako and Jenova stuff
he had some inner power yes, but he for sure got boosted by the mako and jenova cells, you are moronic if you ignore this.
It seems more like Jenova/Mako served as a sort of "stabilizer" that let him access his true physical prowess more consistently. His only issues have always been mental ones. Cloud performs best if he is free to do as he pleases. When he gets constraints set by others, it's when his performance takes a nose dive. That's ironically why he got stuck as a Shinra grunt. It was a catch-22. The moment he took over as "leader of AVALANCHE" he performed so well that he still received the others' blind trust even when his psychotic episodes started becoming very frequent.
But when all is said and done, Cloud at his peak is stronger than Zack, he can even beat Sephiroth in a frontal battle both mentally and physically.
sephiroth had been stabbed in the back and had fought zack, cloud was powerful yes, but without mako, materia and jenova cells he couldn't had gotten past the train station
That's bullshit. Tifa, Cid and Yuffie were just fine without any of that and they don't have any special ancestry, injections or body modifications done to them as far as we know.
they have materia and you are confusing gameplay mechanics with the story
"The story" has them keep up in power with the likes of gun-arm wielding ultra-buff guys like Barret, mutants modified to be killing machines like Vincent, and a literal warrior race like Red XIII. And nothing suggested otherwise. They might have different strengths and weaknesses, but they were usually portrayed as very strong and stronger the further the story went, being roughly considered equal when compared to one another all the while.
Moreover materia is not as vital as you claim. During the Wutai episode they lost all of them and were able to manage just fine regardless. Without any story indication whatsoever that the more "normal" ones like Tifa and Cid suddenly became utterly helpless.
>were able to manage just fine regardless.
against who?
Against any monsters they fought while walking across the entire western continent and also any foes they faced within Wutai itself. At that point they canonically had no materia, but nothing was suggesting that any party members did worse than Cloud with his mako/jenova enhancements, or Red XIII who was born as a literal warrior race.
we are at that point now, zoomers can't understand the difference between the worldbuilding, gameplay and the story.
The fact that you could win the game without materia from a gameplay point of view means they didn't need that at all in the game.
Holy shit.
I guess they should've just run from wutai and face sephiroth directly cause they didnt need it right?
This is amazing, the people I share the board with.
Going into slippery slope arguments now after you started that whole shit with the "Cloud wouldn't even have gotten past the train station without mako/jenova enhancements" claim? Because apparently if Tifa or Cid fought a bunch of security guards and hounds without materia they'd immediately meet their maker or something.
they need materia to be stronger just like cloud needed the mako, the fact that you don't in gameplay means jackshit.
you are confusing gameplay mechanics, oh and correct me if I'm wrong but the game doesnt allow you to escape wutai without taking the materia back, meaning that they need it.
Yeah, no shit they need it. It makes them more flexible in combat, yes, but you make it sound like without materia they couldn't even beat a few security officer and nothing whatsoever suggests that. The party was able to beat Don Corneo's monster bird just fine without their materia stash.
Rather in terms of physical abilities most magic materia actually weakens them.
again, gameplay mechanics
>MUH gameplay mechanics
Yet you didn't offer any proof for your initial claim yourself. You basically say that the party can't defeat a fricking stray dog without materia, but the moment they possess a single fire materia they can suddenly face the one winged angel no problem because MUH materia. You make no sense. Your dismissal of the characters' personal physical prowess is completely made up without being supported on anything in the game.
You didn't base your claims on anything at all. Post your source or admit you were just pulling shit out of your rear end.
>Sephiroth with the whole lifestream and meteor wasn't strong enough to resist a robotic cat limit break duuuuuuude that the power of willllll
this is you
I wasn't the one who claimed "Cloud without Jenova/Mako or Materia wouldn't have gotten past the train station". That was you. And you still didn't substantiate that claim with anything.
Cause that's obvious though, if materia was irrelevant they wouldnt appear in the game and everyone and their mother talks about powerful soldiers because of mako.
Next you will tell me Tifa spawns dolphins with her will.
That's quite the huge leap in logic going from "materia isn't irrelevant" to "Cloud would he filled with bullet holes against the first security guard he'd run across if it wasn't for mako/jenova".
Apparently that is too much for Cloud. But young Tifa without any materia or mako/jenova enhancements being able to survive a clean cut from Sephiroth at his peak condition with the most jenova/mako enhancements out of everyone, along with his full set of materia is totally normal and expected, yup.
By tain station I meant the one with the ghosts though, wich is AFTER you learn of materia.
Did you thought I mean the one in the opening? lol, my bad then
obviously on that one you have jesse taking over guards so no materia is needed
OK, the train graveyard sounds much more plausible. But that's more in regards of needing materia to fight intangible enemies, although the gameplay suggests that the ghosts aren't the overly convenient kind that can touch things but cannot be touched in return, but rather can switch between a material form and can interact with things and an untouchable immaterial form but in turn also can't do anything themselves.
Still, I don't see how that relates to Cloud having Jenova/Mako enhancements making a big difference regardless. It's not like it enables him to be potentially capable of touching intangible beings without materia either even under the assumption that "MUH gameplay characteristics don't count".
But keep in mind that many of the characters in Final Fantasy are usually innately superhuman. I remember that webm of one of the older FFs showing the party running in front of a train while fighting the train itself. It's not something that has been "newly invented by nu-FF" as I have seen being claimed in this thread.
Canonically, nobody in the party is anywhere near as strong as Cloud.
Materia lets people fight well, Cloud is the only one who can cleave buildings in half.
I would even had made limit break a materia that you needed equipped
That's quite a claim to make. Source? One that ideally does not just discredit the whole Wutai episode if possible?
pretty ironic considering the themes of the game
Three buzzwords that all mean the same thing. Could you add in two or three more? Maybe a shill or grifter? What are your pronouns by the way?
they dont mean the same thing but they go together most of the time
You knew everything you needed to know about Zack in the original. Did you need to know every step of his upbringing and entry into soldier back then? Also nothing about getting materia is hard
No one said it was hard and no one said you need to see every step of his upbringing. Learn how to read instead of project, ESL
What about materia hunting is "atrocious" when most of it is in stores and easily obtained along your quest? My point about his upbringing is there was nothing interesting to elaborate on and that's why when they finally gave him a game it was shoehorned in garbage. Now go cry cloud wasn't having heart to hearts about Zack when he wakes up with a meteor bearing down on the planet, weapons wrecking havoc, shinra, homosexualry, sephiroth in some energy bubble. Zack was a solider not a little b***h he doesn't need cloud crying on tifas shoulder about him instead of saving the word autist-san
Because it is pointless fluff making you backtrack constantly that could be cut out from the story. Most noteworthy thing about it is that Cid goes to space which accomplishes next to nothing and could have been written around.
>My point about his upbringing
Your point was to project and misconstrue what I said. I want for Cloud to respond to the death of his best friend. It's weird that he never talks about him again yet he does it for Aerith or his mother. I want a human response to the death of a beloved friend, not a 20 minute flashback of his life you moronic baboon. One of FF7's core themes is about how awful and devastating death is and how life should be celebrated in all its forms but we can't get that for a person extremely important to the main character.
>beloved friend
Have you ever considered the possibility that they weren't best friends? "Cloud" calls Sephiroth a war-buddy, this could easily be the real Cloud's view of Zack, so they didn't really know each other that well.
I just played through the game again and he calls him his best friend.
You made me check and he only calls him a friend. I knew if he said he was his best friend it would've stuck with me.
You should check again and the fact that you can't even tell what exactly the relationship between Cloud and Zack is makes this funnier.
omg ur a nerd dweeb that remembers all the text of the game, stfu final fantasy seven still has shitty writing if this shit is all it takes to impress midwits its over the market has no incentive to produce genius writers.
Huh. Differences in versions.
Most likely og translation vs retranslated mod
Original is wrong.
親友 roughly translates to close/best friend. Either way Zack wasn't an ordinary friend
You're forgetting that Cloud is an extremely unreliable narrator. I always thought Zack was just a nice guy saving the life of a lowly grunt who happened to be with him because he could.
This takes place after Cloud got his real memories back. Crisis Core also only affirms this scene as well. It's not too surprising that Cloud considered him his best friend since Zack was the only one who would talk and help him in his time at Shinra
Yeah, this comes off more like that Zack is just a nice guy and less about him being a genuine person interest in Cloud.
But based on my experience my entire lifetime on the internet, autistics who are desperate for friends will take any form of encounter where a person is kind and helpful as a indicator they want to be your friend.
Obviously Zack was a heavy extrovert, realized Cloud helped save his life from Sephiroth, was the only other survivor from the incident, felt he owed him by bringing him to Migdar while on the lam.
Keep in mind I'm talking exclusively about the OG game story and excluding all the spinoff slop that came out in the 2000's.
I think it's more you're too autistic and lacking in experience to pick up on the comradery and friendship that clearly exist between Cloud and Zack that goes beyond Zack just being outgoing or helpful person.
>that texture mod
Holy garbage tastes
Kiddy Mangatrannies really got no right to complain about anything to be honest
>say mangatrannies despite FFVII's character designs were specifically designed to look like manga characters.
Keep coping, that mod looks visually unappealing. Not as bad as some mods (see: placing Advent Childlren avatars/models into the game), but really doesn't blend shit together well along with its awful lighting. Why is there so much god damn light? The light is meant to be emitting from behind Cloud. Instead its coming from all over the fricking place as if the entire room is lit up.
My monitor doesn't work right when I capture a screenshot meaning I had to adjust the color and lighting so it doesn't look like an overly bright and green mess. The character models themselves look better than the originals and they're based of the character art in both battle and chibi form. The world textures themselves are just upscaled. You're a pretentious homosexual by the way.
>You're a pretentious homosexual by the way.
Nothing pretentious about that. Much like there's nothing pretentious of criticizing something like Half-Life 2's Cinematic mod.
It's pretty prententious you wanna act like you know what you're talking about when the textures are the exact same and you don't have the full info.
This is the kind of moron the extended universe shit is made for.
Why moron? I guess you don't have any friends to be sad over.
It's pretty straight forward and not a clusterfrick of a mess like every FF after (with exception to 9) when it comes to story.
JRPG don't have a good story in general and this apply to FF7. I still enjoyed the game tho
What game does have a good story in your eyes
>playing game for the story
none I just skip that garbage if I want a Story i will go toward other mediums
So why are you mentioning JRPGs specifically then instead of games overall? Seems more like you don't wanna mention a game you like since you will get made fun off for it.
No. The only "good" story of Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy VI. Anything after that is character-driven.
even ff6 is character driven, it originated the idea.
i guess this is kinda false, ff4 did it first but ff6 is the epitome of it for the classic FFs.
ff4 had semi fleshed out characters, but vi took it to a new level by making you play each one's story in the beginning. I'd say vi is the beginning in that sense.
The first character driven Final Fantasy is III, because it had character development.
yes
i honestly thought ff8 was better
it is.
>you will never live in balamb garden as a student listening to the glorious song
feels bad man
Just re-installed the original steam version so I can play chocobo world, got the roses and wine mod, and mapped my controller in steam all of which was an unnecessary pain in the ass, then realized no pc version has fricking rumble. Fricking SE
I can see prefering 8'a gameplay (even though I dont) or the side content, since 7s is mega ass, but the story? It shits its pants after disc one, and the big problems with the plotting and the world, the foreshadowing and the general structure already rear their heads in disc 1.
Not really. Some of the lore is good but the dialogue and sequences needed improvement. Plus they should have gone with some of the original concepts they had with the characters and sequences.
Yes-ish - but the game is carried by the characters, not by the plot.
>i'm sad because my mom is an alien, i guess, so im going to turn the planet into a spaceship(?)
Saying sephiroth's will became the dominant force over jenova or whatever was moronic when it seems more like jenova affected his mind in nibelheim and manipulated him to seek out its goals of devouring and spreading. He's supposedly in the driver's seat in their little symbiotic relationship but his sudden change in personality and desires seem to be jenovas influence so is that really sephiroth's will?
Bro it's his will it's so powerful he's using jenova to operate from the lifestream and carry out jenova's goals it's sephiroth's will man nothing to be trifled with
Just think how much of a handicap sephiroth had too! Being injected with jenova cells from birth yet he was able to overcome the will of a primordial will crushing space parasite just by the power of his own human will! If he can do it then everyone can turn jenova into jobnova
>primordial will crushing space parasite
Jenova doesn't really crush anybody's will. It just sort of eats people most of the time. It's about as subtle as a trapdoor spider.
He had that mad genius gene from his father.
Over time I've become convinced that Sephiroth is nothing but Jenova's pawn. Jenova is the true antagonist.
Good for you, you're wrong.
Sephiroth is the man in charge and Jenova is a very violent space virus with no actual intelligence.
Word of god states that Sephiroth is 100% in control, even though that makes both the story and his character way worse
Sephiroth and Jenova are the same being. Sephiroth is the brain, Jenova is the body, Sephiroth controls Jenova like you would control your arm, and Jenova controls Sephiroth like your hunger drives you to eat.
Jenova Birth, Jenova Life, Jenova Death, Jenova Synthesis, Sephiroth Rebirth, Sefer Sephiroth. The whole thing is chronicling the life cycle of Jenova, as it "died" but was fused with a human embryo and was reborn as Sephiroth the perfect fusion of the two great blights that plague the planet, the apex predator.
>Sephiroth and Jenova are the same being. Sephiroth is the brain, Jenova is the body, Sephiroth controls Jenova like you would control your arm, and Jenova controls Sephiroth like your hunger drives you to eat.
>Jenova Birth, Jenova Life, Jenova Death, Jenova Synthesis, Sephiroth Rebirth, Sefer Sephiroth. The whole thing is chronicling the life cycle of Jenova
you are correct.
>as it "died" but was fused with a human embryo and was reborn as Sephiroth the perfect fusion of the two great blights that plague the planet, the apex predator.
áánd here you became moron, devourer of brains.
Explain what's incorrect about the second statement?
I think it's a mix of both. Sephiroth couldn't recall who Cloud was obviously showing that Jenova was in control while later on he is toying with Cloud like his old deranged self. Jenova seems to have some control over him in a way that is more subliminal influencing his actions without directly taking control
>Sephiroth couldn't recall who Cloud was
It was GASLIGHTING, anon.
It was an entire campaign designed to weaken Cloud's sense of self and reality to make him more easily malleable to psychic domination and force him to hand over the Black Materia.
Sephiroth LIED. He never forgot Cloud and he never got over being stabbed in half.
You EOPs don't even know the real story of any Final Fantasy game.
Yes
No.
>muh eco terrorism
>muh planet
>muh lifestream is le core of planet midgard
>muh villian is an edgy alien Jenova whos cells are violent
>Sephioth is her son
kinda generic
>kinda generic
Oh look everyone! Another hopeless writer/gamedev projecting what he thinks a good story is! Oh anon, please won't you enlighten us as to how FF7 is absolute trite and YOUR story expands upon its faults every single way?
I'm not a gamedev writer but I think I could write better than 90% of gaming rn.
Nta but post some of your writing, im curious. Any previous work? Even a parapraph.
No but I have an idea of a setting in a world where the ayylmaos original population is going extinct because they have reached infertiliy point basically and they made "humanity" with is really mimics / homonculus to try to replicate the lifeform they were but coudlnt so their experiment failed and they are becoming an extinct species, I want some wars to happen between nations too a representation of christiaity vs islam which is still a war on going in the modern world putting shit like that in stories is kino you just have to veil them well. Also I want the sun "the star" of that setting to be an outer god that interacts with the lifeforms of that world. No magic because magic is for literal homosexuals who never grew up and will never get married and have children, alchemy > magic. Also all the ancient ruins are Industrial warehouses from the ayys, ancient high tech ruins are overplayed and they frankly suck. I dont know why people dont just use ruined modern architecture to represent "ancient ruins from the old advanced civilization" because it works and very good, i rather mix post-apocalyptic with fantasy than fantasy with generic sci-fi.
FF7 is a generic ecology gay plot, even Tolkien is less generic and LoTR is also about ecology vs industrialism.
Bait used to be believable
Fanboy homosexual that never developed taste and never read Russian literature so he thinks FF7 is a good story.
FF6 is a good story, at least it points to the importance of something, there the world gets fricked and the morale of the story becomes "is this fricked world even worth saving?" and yea, it is despite the many flaws and demoralizaiton the main cast has to go through, those characters go through hard shit. Cloud is a homosexual, Tifa is a bawd, Aerith is a generic mary sue that even in death manages to be relevant because she is from an ancient hyperborean Master Race connected to the lifestream so she is basically immortal in spirit or whatever homosexual shit, idk man the story of FF7 is just for homosexuals and it will always be. If you tell that shit to an adult he will laugh because its gay.
Nice bait
Mad fanboy homosexual with shit taste in stories. Play FF6 at least, get some better taste. I'm not saying you are gonna get the caliber of stories that are in classic literature in gaming, you never will but I know there is good shit in gaming its just that there hasnt been any worth while story in a long time. FF6 gets my approval, it is good, starts shitty but gets good. Thats the game that should have been re-made not this FF7 slop lmao.
Bla bla bla work on your bait a little harder
its not a bait you have shit taste
That's rich coming from a guy who only talks in bait
Yes
Story is alright, I just wish that it didn't had an erection for crappy minigames and the materia system didn't allowed everybody to do the same tasks.
Mass Effect for weebs
It's a cliche and it's been a cliche for a quarter century now, but only the Midgar sections
There are good scenes afterwards but it's not nearly as consistent.
The instruction manual has a nice smell.
Yeah. At least, for the most part. Kinda silly and gamey, but it was an early era. Still, the whole story with the Planet, Jenova, Sephiroth, and Cloud was solid. The lack of any real ending was pretty low quality, but again, limitations of the day.
No, not really. It's decent for the Cloud schizo character arc, but the actual plot is really just mediocre.
Shinra did nothing wrong after rufus took over
I put it out there with Xenogears as the best storytelling and narrative presentation in videogames. There's no other FF that has the same captivating story and in-depth character arc like Cloud has. There's consistently a memorable moment straight from the beginning in midgar and all the way to the end right until the FFVII ending screen shows up on your screen.
I just wish 6, and 8 gays are not constantly butthurt seeing 7 outshone their games and always insert their irrelevant opinions and present it as a magnum opus of FF series. I don't know why I kept seeing these morons everytime I lurk on FF7 threads. I don't know why, it is everywhere ,in reddit and Ganker, these 6/8 gays are like wienerroaches having FF7 derangement syndrome. Go make your own thread, and jerk off your game.
This entire post has to be bait and or is made by an insane hyper fanboy
He's not even wrong though. FF7's storytelling is far and away better than both 6 and 8's and there isn't any game that overall does this better though Automata gives it a run for its money in its own way
Yes, one of the best, too many zoomer baiters itt
As someone who faked going to college for two years, playing FFVII as an adult and seeing how he lied about being in soldier and the awful consequences of those lies resonated deeply with me.
Like another anon said, if FFVII doesn't have a good story then no game does.
>and the awful consequences of those lies
What? He didn't have any awful consequences.
Hell, he wasn't even consciously aware of his lying.
Man had a psychic alien space virus in his brain. After the souls of the dead scrambled him silly. He is really quite blameless in the situation.
he fed the lie, he even says it, and the awful consequences was him giving the black materia or you didn't play the game?
No one said he did it alone or that jenova didnt play a part.
Man he had no idea what he was doing, nobody blames him for handing over the Black Materia when it was a goddamn space virus that made him do so.
Cloud's just hard on himself for no good reason.
No, jenova cells needed his own fear of rejection and shame of his past, I dont think you get it. You treat it like its black or white and it's not.
>No, jenova cells needed his own fear of rejection and shame of his past
No they didn't.
Nothing ever indicates ANYTHING like that.
The man was flat on his ass drooling his brains into his lap when the Jenova cells scanned Tifa and hit him with the personality reconfiguration.
He did feel shame of course but there's no real reason to think that that was a crucial factor in the formation of the "Cloud Strife, SOLDIER 1st class" ego.
"The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weakness are what created me"
Do you really need everything chewed before? Can't you understand themes and interpret the game? How dumb are you?
Dude. His "weakness" is a LITERAL one there. It was his inability to hold himself together against the mako and Jenova compulsions. It was not deciding to give into lies, he literally did not have the willpower to keep himself from crumbling.
"Consequences of lies" are not the theme of FFVII.
you are extremely dense holy shit
>"Consequences of lies" are not the theme of FFVII.
dude, you know that games can have more than one theme right? or that one theme can appear in a single level without being present in the whole game right?
> It was his inability to hold himself together against the mako and Jenova compulsions.
and why do you think that is? cause he entertained the though of being who he wasn't.
And he told many lies and Tifa did not correct him out of fear he would collapse.
What are you not geting?
Do you think the jenova cells could've done what they did to anyone? I dont think that's the case. Anyway this is a matter of opinion, it's not a fact or needs some source outside of the game to confirm. For me it's very apparent, you somehow think Cloud's shame and wish to be different played no part. I find that hard to believe and doesnt make sense thematically but I guess you don't want to see it for some reason.
>dude, you know that games can have more than one theme right? or that one theme can appear in a single level without being present in the whole game right?
So why doesn't that appear literally anywhere else in FFVII?
>and why do you think that is? cause he entertained the though of being who he wasn't.
No it was literally because he lacked the mental fortitude and was crushed beneath the weight of the souls of the dead. That's what mako poisoning IS.
>Do you think the jenova cells could've done what they did to anyone? I dont think that's the case.
They'd do the same to anyone in the same circumstance, provided they lacked the will to assert themselves over Jenova (as Sephiroth does). Admittedly, the situation of meeting someone who recognized you from your childhood, letting you transform into "yourself", is an incredibly specific context to trigger.
of course they appear, he literally lies about his past, he pretends he was in soldier to impress tifa, dude seriously, you think that was just jenova? jenova controlled everything he said and did?
He pretends he was in SOLDIER because Jenova created a personality of "Cloud Strife, SOLDIER 1st Class" for him, yes. It worked with what it had, which was Zack's stories, Cloud's desire to be a SOLDIER, and Tifa's belief that Cloud would have become a SOLDIER. These three facts slam together and Jenova stitches the personality accordingly. Even if it has horrible seams for being made in a minute, Jenova is a freaky psychic alien, not a god.
The lies he told are not what lead to the sequence of events that end in Sephiroth getting the Black Materia, though his lack of willpower is undoubtedly a primary motivator in that. Lies were not the issue. Inability to retain his ego was. He is literally mourning his lack of strength as the reason those lies come about. The lies themselves were circumstantial, and not something he blames himself for.
Had he the mental fortitude to withstand mako and Jenova, as Zack did, then he never would have succumbed to illusions.
no, he was already lying by not telling everyone he was in town cause he didnt want people to know he didnt make it into soldier.
I guess that was jenova too right?
>because Jenova created a personality of "Cloud Strife, SOLDIER 1st Class"
he did that himself dude, but he believed the lie so much he end up forgeting the truth.
>The lies themselves were circumstantial, and not something he blames himself for.
that's your own opinion pal
>no, he was already lying by not telling everyone he was in town cause he didnt want people to know he didnt make it into soldier.
That's a lie of omission at best. He still went to see his mother. Plus, even if he did tell everyone, it wouldn't have changed a thing with Sephiroth.
>he did that himself dude, but he believed the lie so much he end up forgeting the truth.
No. Jenova explicitly did that. You don't just "believe the lie" to get out of a mako poisoning coma.
>jenova was catatonic
Jenova is Jenova. It's a clump of cells constantly doing its gooey things. It doesn't have any singular will. It did the brain scan on Tifa then the transformation because Cloud was completely out of commission, so it could do default Jenova behavior (which includes scanning the brains of nearby life forms and transforming into their friends and family).
It only worked because Tifa knew Cloud, as Cloud is just a guy with Jenova cells, not a full blown shapeshifting Jenova creature, he can't really 'transform' all that much.
>It did the brain scan on Tifa then the transformation because Cloud was completely out of commission
the wot now?
The brain scan mother fricker play FFVII
Jenova is psychic, it reads your mind, detects something in your past that you will trust, and then transforms into that.
Cloud, of course, is not a full Jenova monster. He's just got a bunch of Jenova in him. It's enough to do this partially, but he only managed to transform from "Cloud Strife, failed lab experiment" to "badass ex-SOLDIER" because that's what Tifa expected Cloud to be AND what Cloud wanted to be.
Name ten citations of jenova being the one doing that.
jenova was catatonic after being defeated by the ancients and just followed sephiroth's will.
jenova did not control what cloud said.
>Lies were not the issue. Inability to retain his ego was.
he was ashamed of his character so he lied about it, what are you not geting?
also thinking jenova would created the persona for him that's quite a reach and there's also no source on that
>he was ashamed of his character so he lied about it, what are you not geting?
Shame doesn't get you out of a mako poisoning coma either.
>also thinking jenova would created the persona for him that's quite a reach and there's also no source on that
There's absolutely a source on that, it's spelled out in Ultimania, but more importantly it's blatantly obvious in FFVII itself.
Cloud goes from groaning and drowning in his own drool immobile in the streets to "Hey Tifa, I'm Cloud Strife SOLDIER 1st class, remember me?" in the space of seconds. You think SHAME did that?
It's incredible how you still talk about the finger when I'm pointing at the sun, and you post some material outside the game like it proves anything.
If you think Cloud's shame and lies did not play a part in FFVII then I have nothing else to say. You have lost it, sorry.
But I guess you prefer FFVII to be the jenova's keikaku game, and not something bigger that talks to the player about life decisions. Yeah you are right, pretending you are who you really aren't wasnt a theme the creators wanted in this game at all, just some alien paraiste consequence.
Ok dude, whatever floats your boat.
Black person you ain't pointing at anything but your own hallucinations.
Consequences of lies are not the theme of FFVII. Lies are a theme in one way, but it's nothing about the consequences of them, just the total rejection of them. To thine own self be true. Lies don't have to cause anything to be a falsehood. None of Cloud's lies actually cause anything.
Cloud's weakness is not borne of lies, but because he is just. Too. Weak. He has to grit his teeth, stare his own pathetic behavior in the face, suck it up, and command himself to stop doing that. Only then can he not be used as Sephiroth's puppet because he knows who he is.
You fail to even understand that Jenova has no real intentions here. Sephiroth is the one with the plan. Jenova is an entity of pure mindless instinct that Sephiroth takes advantage of.
Name any possibility that it can be anything else, dude. But I'll list the important one: Ultimania Omega states it outright.
Meanwhile: how exactly does anyone shrug off mako poisoning in seconds? Why does the screen flash with static while Cloud holds his head? What is your explanation for this?
you say jenova had no intention and yet that it created a whole character for cloud in a second after meeting tifa, like I said, whatever dude
Yeah it does that, it's a fricking psychic alien virus. Its primary hunting method is this transformation move. It's fully automatic.
Jenova sees a thing with a brain -> scans it for "trustworthy" -> becomes trustworthy thing.
Then it takes its prey to a dark alleyway and eats them and makes them Jenova. That's how the creepy transforming space virus does its business. It's not even that intelligent, it has the cunning of a predator, but no real thought processes behind it beyond "get biomass, make more Jenova, Reunite into big Jenova".
that's your own headcanon, nothing indicates jenova had a will after being discovered or that the process of lying and imitating is just some automatic behaviour, that's your own shit, bro.
it's cool but don't pretend its the game only interpretation and stop posting some jap magazine as le source.
Black person you can't read japanese because it is on the very same page that I posted.
>and stop posting some jap magazine as le source.
It's the Ultimania Omega guide you frickwit. Written by the writers of FFVII to explain the specific details.
>he is just. Too. Weak.
mentally
le too weak, yeah he's weak so he lies about it, Black person what's there not to get?
> Lies don't have to cause anything to be a falsehood. None of Cloud's lies actually cause anything.
of course they do, had he admited from the start that he never got into soldier him and Tifa could've better understood what happened and he would've had a stronger will to resist Sephiroth. He wouldn't believe sephiroth lies about him being a puppet or copy or clone or asking Hojo for a number or whatever.
Had he appeared as who he was to the town would've helped later meeting Tifa all dressed up as Zack to better understand what they were dealing with.
Maybe he wouldn't have gone crazy in the temple and Aerith wouldn't had to leave alone, etc.
For me that's an important theme in the game and I'm sure the creators wanted that. Not my fault you can't understand how a game can have many theme and resonate with people in more than a single way.
>le too weak, yeah he's weak so he lies about it, Black person what's there not to get?
It's called cart before the horse.
The problem isn't that he lies, but that he's weak. He lies because he's weak, but THE LIES AREN'T THE PROBLEM. THE WEAKNESS IS.
The lies are nothing but a symptom of his lack of mental fortitude. They are irrelevant. Cloud's kingdom of illusions perpetuate his weakness and THAT is why he must reject them, not because of nebulous "consequences".
>of course they do, had he admited from the start that he never got into soldier him and Tifa could've better understood what happened and he would've had a stronger will to resist Sephiroth.
That's entirely unsubstantiated. Telling one truth isn't proof that he could handle anything that comes his way.
>They are irrelevant.
oh my god, you really are killing me, you don't believe what you are saying are you?
I very much do which is why I raised the point to begin with. There's no consequences to his lies beyond the fact that lying at all is something you shouldn't do to yourself.
His lies don't get anyone killed. They're not the prime motivator in essentially anything that happens. They only exist because he lacks the strength needed for honesty.
you are just arguing semantics thinking you found some philosophical loophole.
yeah of course lies aren't created on a vacuum, there's a reason for them.
I never said that, they are a consequence of his own shame about who he was, I said that in the first post.
But you are really moronic if you think the lies didn't add to the affair and like I said, you are only thinking of it in the canon bullshit side, I'm talking of the outside world, for some reason you have a problem with that and I don't understand why you even jumped in the first place.
I fooled my friends and family, lying of being in college, that's what I said that it resonated with me how he lied about being in soldier.
You say oh thats just jenova lie, I told you that's irrelevant to what I said, and even debatable in game.
You say the problem is the weakness not the lie itself, well of course the lies were created because of a weakness, just like me.
But to pretend the lies itself don't have consequences is such a bad hill to die on my friend.
>Its not le roooot cauuseee
so what? Seriously what's the problem here?
If it wouldn't have we wouldn't talk about it every day for the last 2 and a half decades
I'm trans and I hate the original game, ewww, FF7 Remake is SO MUCH better, like, seriously, it slays
this isnt even bait anymore, you just chugged the bucket full of rotten chum overboard along with the fishing rod.
heres my take of ff7: jenova is an alien that has the same properties as the planets lifestream (it absorbs peoples memories, personalities, souls and throws them together into a blender) but the comparison stops there because jenova becomes the dominant part of anything it absorbs.
cloud and zack were both injected with jenova cells so their personalities got mixed up.
when cloud was recounting his past and was citing stuff zack did he wasnt lying its litterally the memories and personality of zack that are a part of cloud speaking.
as for sephiroth as a baby he was injected in the womb with jenova cells and met jenova in the lifestream when cloud tossed him over the railing in the nibelheim reactor.
in the original ff7 you will never encounter sephiroth in the flesh. jenova wears him like a skinsuit like some ed gein abomination. this is why sephiroth always turns into picrel and cant remember who cloud is when you travel from junon to costa del sol.
most crucial moment of ff7 is near the end when cloud gets his shit together, stops worrying about the past, and decides that total jenova death is the only way forward. and no, he couldnt cleave buildings in two with his sword or fly around like a DBZ character thats moronic nu-ff7 shit.
T: only played the OG final fantasy 7.
>Tifa could supplex a huge kaiju WEAPON
>but Cloud couldn't possibly cut a building in half
So you are saying Tifa is much stronger than Cloud? Damn, Cloud is really a weakling even with his mako/jenova enhancement...
>Tifa could supplex a huge kaiju WEAPON
thats just random encounter bullshit.
i mean did the solar system got destroyed when sephiroth saviour used sol nova?
>in the original ff7 you will never encounter sephiroth in the flesh.
Didn't they meet sephiroth here?
That anon's wrong about mostly everything, but for a given definition of meet, yeah. I mean he's just sitting there in his comfy materia throne and doesn't offer so much as a thank you when Cloud hands over the Black Materia, but that's his real body from which he projects his will out through Jenova.
Which is why it needed to be equipped with the Black Materia directly.
>but that's his real body from which he projects his will out through Jenova
sephiroths mother lucretia (not jenova but you would only know this if you paid fricking attention) allowed her husband hojo to inject their son with jenova cells in the womb.
whatever free will sephiroth had was gone before he could walk, talk, or wipe his own ass.
sephiroth is the master chief, a augmented super-soldier, but unlike the master chief sephiroth has no free will, he does what he is told and the moment his programming breaks he goes insane. dont let nu-ff7 fool you sephiroth has a cardboard personality.
headcannon: sephiroth would have never made it of the pillar of autumn
in ff7 he needed a local 15 year old girl to guide him to a reactor his own employer who build the reactor and probally told him exactly were it was needed clearing. you can reliably send the master chief on solo missions and expect him to act on his own autority when the intel doesnt matches the mission, or when the mission unexpectedly changes.
and what form did jenova had just before that fight? and why would sephiroth, a cardboard super-soldier need to tear a hole in the planet to absorb its life sustaining energy?
>inb4 to become a planetary god that controls everything.
anyone with more than 12 braincells figured out that the planets conscience was rudimentary, Gaia is funtionally and clinnically moronic. it sends the weapons out in distress, but its too moronic to single out sephiroth WHO AT THAT MOMENT SITS AT THE VERY FRICKING CORE OF THE EARTH as the inmediate threat. and like a toddler just bulldozes humans. hell, ancients warned the planet about meteor, but for some reason the planet doesnt knows this.
sephiroth taking over the planet is like giving himself a lobotomy.
Man, you are rambling like nothing else.
Yes, it was to become a god.
>anyone with more than 12 braincells figured out that the planets conscience was rudimentary
Which is why Sephiroth decided it needs a human intellect behind it and guiding it.
The Planet has no brain. Sephiroth would become that brain.
>sephiroth taking over the planet is like giving himself a lobotomy.
He wasn't becoming the Planet. He was becoming God.
>He wasn't becoming the Planet. He was becoming God.
''I will become one with the planets Consciousness''
litterally the first result when typing sephiroth quotes original final fantasy 7 in israelitegle.
Gaia is like Ganker, it exists but on its own it does nothing, a whole bunch of anons dwell on it to liven up the place.
occasionally the planet sends out jannies (WEAPON)to clean up the mess. but unlike Ganker Gaia is fricking moronic. it litterally tries to murder the people (shinra and avalanche) who are trying to stop sephiroth (weapon attack on junon cannon, weapon attack on midgar cannon)
even barret says that the planet is like a child being harmed by sephiroth, and that AVALANCHE a environmentalist organization exist to protect the planet from such harm. Aerith, a ancient who could speak with Gaia and who was part of AVALANCHE probably tried to tell this to the planet after she died but i guess it fell on deaf ears because Gaia sends ultima weapon (a turbocharged flying dragon) after the village full of elderly were the members of AVALANCHE were staying during cloud's moron in a wheelchair episode, gelnika, and the highwind full of AVALACHE members
genius.
>''I will become one with the planets Consciousness''
Yes. Become one. Not merely become. He is not reducing himself, but adding to it.
Planet + Sephiroth = God.
Planet =/= God.
Planet + Sephiroth =/= Planet.
QED.
if you ''become one'' with the windowlicking village idiot your I.Q would actually go up.
and no, i am not telling you what iam hinting at, i will let figure this one out for yourself.
if a white woman becomes one with a Black person a mutt is formed.
jenova wants to eat the planets lifestream, any other schizo delusions about becoming a god/skullfricking a planet is your brain on jenova.
in the end the real mentally unstable moron in a squeeky wheelchair was sephiroth and jenova was the one pushing the wheelchair around.
cloud said im done overthinking shit and im just gonna rid the world of the alien infestation.
Jenova doesn't want to do anything but make more Jenova. It's a near-mindless virus.
If Jenova wanted to eat the fricking Lifestream, it would have done so the second it crashed in the Northern Crater, creating the EXACT KIND OF WOUND that Meteor was going to make.
We've been over this a thousand times and people still don't get it.
>If Jenova wanted to eat the fricking Lifestream, it would have done so the second it crashed in the Northern Crater
it seeks to spread and devour, it eats life, whatever form that life takes.
>it would have done so the second it crashed in the Northern Crater
it made the northern crater you nincompoop. after emerging from its impact zone jenova deemed that the planets defenders the cetra needed to be dealed with before the great feast on the planets lifestream itself could begin.
if not stopped by the cetra remnants Gaia would have been bled dry of life and been left a barren lifeless husk of a rock floating in space.
humans were a nothingburger in that period and did not rise to become the dominant species on Gaia until the ancients were nearly decimated by jenova.
>it seeks to spread and devour, it eats life, whatever form that life takes.
It eats whatever the hell it sees in front of it, that's all. It's as smart as a hungry wolf.
>it made the northern crater you nincompoop. after emerging from its impact zone jenova deemed that the planets defenders the cetra needed to be dealed with before the great feast on the planets lifestream itself could begin.
Not interested in your shitty fanfiction that you made up on the spot to justify why your previous shitty fanfiction was completely nonsensical.
>i didnt read professors gasts notes and thereby missed vital ff7 lore but iam too Black personbrained to even as much as look up information on jenova so i can continue to be a moron on the internet.
>hojo was a sadistic moron who thought jenova was an ancient even if his mentor gast told him it aint.
>i am autistic and i cant recognize humanlike behaviours like sinister traits, distorted values and personality subleties like insanity, underlying intentions,or hidden menace.
>therefore i take everything at face value and eat up every word spewn by npcs, i believe everything they say and they are always telling me the truth.
its a game about saving the world and killing a aylmao, the mad scientist is lying for shinra bux and the sane scientist who got sidetracked by his morally depleted employer was speaking the truth.
but since you and most people in this thread are autistic, you place the same value on every line spoken in ff7 so you get these long winded discussions.
>inb4 semantics
yes, i know its just word bubbles in this ff7 and not actual spoken recorded voicelines.
>It's as smart as a hungry wolf.
a wolf who lured and tricked cetra into extiction and tricked a world religion into worshipping its nipple-eye.
1: sephiroth on its own didnt blight the planet hes a overpowered human attack dog that got sicced on dangerous targets by shinra.
2: both sephiroth and jenova existed on their own seperate before hojo decided to inject his unborn son with the fantasy equivalent of halos the flood.
3: jenova was made harmless until humans decided to f*ck around with it.
4: you sound gay. you should write yaoi fanfictions and shit.
You misunderstand, humans are the second blight on the planet, Shinra is trying to suck the planet dry. Sephiroth is the product of both humans and Jenova.
and what do his dead remains turn into litterally a second later after it bursts from his watery cocoon and falls on top of your party?
*jenova theme intensifies*
Wrong sequence of events. You fight Jenova DEATH in the Whirlwind Maze well before meeting Sephiroth in the crystal. Once you do, Meteor is summoned, the WEAPONs wake up, and everybody is ejected, followed by the week time skip.
it would've been better if in the maze you fought a human version of sephiroth before he morphed into jenova again
The lifestream crap shows how petty and dumb Sephiroth really is as a villain when could've easily find his real mother.
The fact that the game tries to sell him as a 200 IQ Super Saiyan makes it even more of a joke.
tl;dr It's shit.
bait has to be more believable
He's not wrong, though.
yes he is, sephiroth only talks about his origins and mother before he's thrown into the lifestream.
And even then, he still has jenova cells.
"oh there was a women named Lucrecia who they used the egg to inject jenova cells, I guess that means I no longer get to be a god by using meteor" is that what you think he would've acted like?
Seriously play the game.
Also correct me if I'm wrong but Lucrecia wasnt in the lifestream.
>Also correct me if I'm wrong but Lucrecia wasnt in the lifestream
She doesn't need to be in the lifestream neither being a cetra to contact dead people, Zack himself shows up to Cloud in Advent Children.
>Advent Children
not canon
>She doesn't need to be in the lifestream neither being a cetra to contact dead people
sephiroth or lucrecia arent really dead
You are the moron cause the whole finding mother was BEFORE he got thrown into the lifestream.
After that he no longer cared of Jenova or Lucrecia being his mother but to use the lifestram to become a god.
Also it's not like people go to the lifestream to meet the past, people die there, or get poisoned for life. Maybe you played a different game.
It's the same tired and mediocre "bunch of shallow tropes with legs go kill the bad guy and save the world" deal that 99% of games and media for children offer, with more plot holes and worse worldbuilding than average.
None of this matters anyway because shit eating morons will disregard any and all criticism just so they can defend a mediocre and poorly designed piece of software, trying to honestly discuss with FF gays is impossible.
name 10 books you read without any le trope
name 10 games you played without any le trope
name 10 plotholes in ffvii
name 10 bad worldbuilding examples in ffvii
>any and all criticism
give some
The best.
Bla, bla, bla, bla. You're regurgitating the same old fricking corrections and arguments 25 years later. How dumb do you have to be to fail to understand FF7 and its characters?
it WAS awesome. everyone who shits on it literally wasn't there.
the story alone is serviceable but not super good. but combined with the music and visuals it was really good for a PS1 game.
The thing I love most about FF7 is that it failed either by design or accident to say with clarity wtf Jenova is and what is really going with Sephiroth so much that spergs still aggressively argue about it 25 years later.
The overall story was pretty meh but this scene is easily 10/10.
>we have to stop shinra from using the huge materia to destroy meteor
>because
???
because materia holds memories of dead people, its frozen lifestream, the history of the planet, its not something to destroy and even if it worked and destroyed the meteor then sephiroth would've summoned another meteor, but this time you wouldnt have the huge materia powers to fight him.
maybe the game should've make it so if you got all the materia you could somehow erase the barrier but still, even if it wanst the high point of the game, you can understand it.
Protecting the materia and the lifestream is equally imporant than protecting the living humans, that's the whole issue with using mako.
Mako is the souls of the people turning into electricity
Because the Huge Materia is better off in your hands than being wasted against Meteor.
As shown by it doing absolutely fricking nothing if you fail to retrieve it.
When I played this game I thought Midgar was floating like in Dark City and you would have to destroy each reactor. Having to blow up only two and then finding a whole world outside was a pleasant surprise.
But still I wish they would've left more reactor stuff at the end like that planned with Reeves
In context? Yes.
The original FF VII story and narrative were awesome. It hooks you from the start and it just never lets go. The mystery of Sephiroth keeps you going right up until you reach Nibelheim at the very least and then it piles up even more questions.
Granted it´s still anime tier and not the complex opera tragic drama one might have thought it was when one was young.
Compared to what? How is it less complex than Faust for example
Yes. Its pretty much perfect
Probably the best story in a jrpg. Easily. It's simple but gets more and more complex and interesting.
You boomers made such a deal about Aeris death. I got to it and was just meh.
Btw all the minigames are awful and there are too many party members when the most important thing is the equipment and materia.
Ok thanks for the bait, have a you
No. This game and it's story is only carried by the nostalgia of those outcast kids who got filtered by Madden.
Yes. The way the game is framed around that Flashback in Nibelheim and the final resolution to it is high kino.
Also, do you remember the final confrontation? There isn't a single dialogue exchange between the party and Sephiroth, most of the ending cinematic has no dialogue its all told visually. Could you imagine modern Square doing that?
>Best story in a jarpig
>Autists argue about whether Jenova or Sephiroth was in control for quarter a century
Kek
totally, it was memorable and fun
without the nonsensical translation yeah it's pretty good
Where does genesis fit in all of this
Nowhere, because Mystic Knights don't belong in VII's setting, due to it not having deities. Furthermore it can't have a deity such as Minerva, since then it doesn't make any sense that she doesn't just behead Sephiroth when he gets uppity, because the Planet is demonstrably stronger than Jenova and Sephiroth and Minerva is a sentient rational creature, so she can understand what's going on.
So in short Genesis fits nowhere, but should just disregard that, because Mystic Knights are my second favorite Job and therefore he'll always be welcome.