They are to some extent able to tell right from wrong. They just don't care about it and enjoy being sadistic and cruel. Originally they were bred to do evil deeds by a dark wizard from his slaves and the most ruthless servants of his. Barbarism therefore lies in their very nature. However it is not unthinkable that an orc who was taken from his "parents" (quotation marks because orc children are completely neglected by their organic producer and not treated as offspring at all; only the strongest and most cunnings survive as a result) could theoretically be redeemed to some extent. Only if the adoptive parents show an incredible huge amount of love, care and effort when raising the orc that is. The result would never lead to a "good" orc but could theoretically result in a morally neutral orc so to speak. Nobody in his right mind would even bothered with such a task so orc redemption is purely hypothetical and has never happened. How about you?
>How about you?
Don't get your hopes up. He won't give you any substantial answer. Probably no answer at all. He's just an insufferable homosexual that gets off on being annoying on the internet.
I don't use orcs since it's swords & sorcery. I have a race of subhuman beastmen who despise mankind and consider them prey and sacrifices to their gods. These subhumans were created through alchemical and magical devolution of humans by an extinct race of alien serpent-men to serve as their slaves (men are too smart and willful). These days the subhumanoids live in small and quarrelsome tribes, raiding human settlements for meat and sacrifices, worshiping the outer demons their creators bargained with as gods. Humans CAN master them, but only through fear and power.
Their sense of morality is pretty unsympathetic. Strength is right to them. Tribes are ruled by the strongest men, who keep a harem of women. Other males are either his sons or brothers. Sometimes they'll leave to start another tribe, which can turn deadly if they choose to steal a woman. If a male is feeling froggy, he may challenge his leader for headmanship of the tribe. This ends in the old leader's death or expulsion. The only class of male exempt from this are the priests, who always choose their own successors from among other males, usually non-violently. It is forbidden for a non-priest to kill a priest, which means they have outsize political power. Thus bribing his acolytes to murder him is a socially acceptable way of getting rid of a troublemaker.
A common but false belief they have is that they came before humans. Many of them believe and hope that when their masters return, the "thieving" humans will all be wiped out in a great sacrificial pyre.
They have some virtues we might consider moral. You are expected to fight for your brothers and the chieftain's women in the tribe to the death. You are expected to share with your brothers if you have excess, unless they're lazy or weak. Their gods are evil and mad but their piety is sincere, not mere fear.
I've always wanted to run a game where there's modern orcs that are the green Conans we all know, but they're descended from Tolkein-style servile wretches who were abandoned after their previous master was defeated, some of which are still prodded along by lesser evil masters.
I do like the idea of 'there was some ancient war in the distant past that created Orcs, but it's been centuries around, and they're still around and we've got to grapple with how society moves on'.
I also think there's a lot of fun you could use in an 'Orc Conquerer' Campaign. Imagine the fall of Rome but you play as the Huns. There's a giant Elven Empire full of riches, but it's doomed to collapse, and you may as well take a bunch of Orcs and take what you can get (elf slaves and everything).
The real tricky part wouldn't be conquering the Elves, it'd be finding an effective way to administrate them and keep your new kingdom together with there being a mix of Orc and Elven populations, and having to adopt some Elven institutions without coming across as too much of a pussy to your fellow Orcs. Imagine having the option to upgrade from random furs covering your half-naked body to elven-silk pajama's but all your Orc soldiers think that doing so will make you a gay sisssy-boy.
I too like having my cake and eating it where possible.
In Tolkien's works Orcs are corrupted by Morgoth beyond saving. Killing them is an act of mercy, but if you're seeking too much power in order to destroy them you can easily turn into a killing machine consumed by evil
See that kind of irretrievable damnation is why Tolkien could be ambivalent about them, the stubborn fallen actively choosing to reject redemption's one thing but the brutalised being lost to it's entirely another.
https://i.imgur.com/5EwefAp.jpg
Or are they wholly evil and can be slaughtered without regret.
Not strictly greenskins or uruk but pigdog uplifts filling a similar niche. The "guiltless slaughter-fodder" bit comes of individual beasts being sub-sapient. The simplest form of sapience among them is when an ergregore "dark lord" through hallucination and shared purpose, usually as the runts are forced into scrums by their territorial betters. The newborn Lord not only awakens to a war for survival but can only wage it by herding its body of sohrt-sighted morons. Even when they eventually come to understand that other races operate as individuals there are still the habits of viciousness, self-hatred and frustration between them and civility. The terrified wretches that compose them would willingly revert to savagery if they could and should the tyrant-tulpa's grip slacken often will. Fortunately most mature and settle into a companionable sort of violence, often taking prisoners as much for the pleasure of conversation as ransom.
My settings don’t have orcs, not normally anyway.
If I need a horde of henchmen for the BBEG to throw at the players My first pick is honestly…
Robots.
Narratively simple, easy to explain huge numbers of them appearing, or laying dormant for long periods of time, BBEG no longer needs to be in anyway powerful or charismatic to command them, there’s really no moral dilemma in destroying them as it’s really just breaking the bad guy’s toys, and there’s something diabolical and alien about an adversary who’s entire motivations begin and end with “because I was told to”.
I mean sranc are pretty much that via biotech ayys, nice explanation of the traditional elvish resemblance if you fancy sticking with that too.
I've always wanted to run a game where there's modern orcs that are the green Conans we all know, but they're descended from Tolkein-style servile wretches who were abandoned after their previous master was defeated, some of which are still prodded along by lesser evil masters.
I do like the idea of 'there was some ancient war in the distant past that created Orcs, but it's been centuries around, and they're still around and we've got to grapple with how society moves on'.
I also think there's a lot of fun you could use in an 'Orc Conquerer' Campaign. Imagine the fall of Rome but you play as the Huns. There's a giant Elven Empire full of riches, but it's doomed to collapse, and you may as well take a bunch of Orcs and take what you can get (elf slaves and everything).
The real tricky part wouldn't be conquering the Elves, it'd be finding an effective way to administrate them and keep your new kingdom together with there being a mix of Orc and Elven populations, and having to adopt some Elven institutions without coming across as too much of a pussy to your fellow Orcs. Imagine having the option to upgrade from random furs covering your half-naked body to elven-silk pajama's but all your Orc soldiers think that doing so will make you a gay sisssy-boy.
Noice, occasional atavism would be a b***h though perhaps as having outgrown their moral deformity simple exposure's not the done thing anymore.
Not likely, she has a pretty protective hubby who made a career of hunting down PC-tier villains before retiring and un-retiring into a mid-life crisis as a part-time outlaw.
They're sentient humanoid creatures with a pension to raid and pillage. Merciless killers who don't waste time making their own tools/equipment if they don't have to, and find the best method for resource gathering/economic efficiency involves taking the enemy's treasure and tech for themselves, since it both aids Orc clans while weakening your enemy in the same stoke. Any time spent engineering or smithing involves retrofitting these pilfered resources to fit whatever need the Orc clans current demand of them.
Orcs are industrious, brave, strong, stalwart, and clever with deep cultural traditions and even systems of law.
Unfortunately --outside of the Wandering Orc itinerant adventurer types (seen as lucky omens and wisemen, they're also often Orc exiles and outlaws)-- Orc society is, by and large, violently incompatible with the cultures of Elf, Dwarf, and Man.
Mine just similar to the times when raiding was common. They dont feel bad because they cant. They will starve if they feel bad. Orcish land doesnt grow much and no one wants to trade with them(orcs will always think you screwed them over in a trade anyways)
In Tolkien's works Orcs are corrupted by Morgoth beyond saving. Killing them is an act of mercy, but if you're seeking too much power in order to destroy them you can easily turn into a killing machine consumed by evil
If I need a horde of henchmen for the BBEG to throw at the players My first pick is honestly…
Robots.
Narratively simple, easy to explain huge numbers of them appearing, or laying dormant for long periods of time, BBEG no longer needs to be in anyway powerful or charismatic to command them, there’s really no moral dilemma in destroying them as it’s really just breaking the bad guy’s toys, and there’s something diabolical and alien about an adversary who’s entire motivations begin and end with “because I was told to”.
>there’s really no moral dilemma in destroying them
What sort of leftist turbohomosexuals you play with if this is a talking point under any circumstances.
> What sort of leftist turbohomosexuals you play with if this is a talking point under any circumstances.
Um, that’s you guys. Here on /tg/, that have ever cried “robots are a slave race”
It's because he's too moronic to understand nuance. It makes his pea brain hurt, he only understands black and white child logic, so he needs all his media to reaffirm his weak, easily shattered beliefs or else he'll have a mental breakdown.
It's because he's too moronic to understand nuance. It makes his pea brain hurt, he only understands black and white child logic, so he needs all his media to reaffirm his weak, easily shattered beliefs or else he'll have a mental breakdown.
I think it's more likely that he just doesn't get moral dilemmas from imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes. At least, that's why I think you're both moronic, soft-hearted, lefty b***hes, but I'll let him explain otherwise.
> more likely that he just doesn't get moral dilemmas from imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes.
Also a fair point. IRL has enough of that moral grey and overly complicated situations as it is and some of us use TTRPGs to relax and unwind, so the last thing anyone wants is a bunch of moral dilemma and heavy content in a game meant to get the frick away from that.
You’ll understand once you grow up and have to interact with the world for a living.
>Also a fair point. IRL has enough of that moral grey and overly complicated situations as it is and some of us use TTRPGs to relax and unwind, so the last thing anyone wants is a bunch of moral dilemma and heavy content in a game meant to get the frick away from that.
No, the point is that you can't ever have moral dilemmas, because as I already said, they're imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes. >You’ll understand once you grow up and have to interact with the world for a living.
Says the moron that things playing pretend is a moral difficulty. Grow up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
What a moronic post. >there can never be physical danger in games because it’s imaginary, even if your character dies you are completely unharmed so there are no stakes >steal from the guard? I can’t steal anything from them, they’re imaginary so I don’t get anything that my character takes because it isn’t real. There are no stakes.
Why even bother roleplaying with this attitude? So stupid.
3 months ago
Anonymous
can never be physical danger in games because it’s imaginary, even if your character dies you are completely unharmed so there are no stakes
Yes. >steal from the guard? I can’t steal anything from them, they’re imaginary so I don’t get anything that my character takes because it isn’t real. There are no stakes.
No, that's moronic. But it would be equally moronic to think imaginary stealing from an imaginary guard is some how a moral quandry that would make you weep and cry over the act. It's not real, you dense frick. It's for fun. It's make believe. It's playing pretend. Get it, moron?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Some people enjoy pretending what they'd do in a morally complex situation. It's why No alot of movies dont have extremely black and white conflicts to them.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Okay. So let’s imagine (seemingly impossible for you) that you are playing pretend by playing a pretend character that thinks stealing is wrong. Please, take as long as you need to do this.
Now pretend that you’re playing a character who thinks stealing is wrong, and who needs to interrogate a prisoner about where his kidnapped sister is being held captive.
Now pretend that your character can’t think about any way to ask the prisoner without getting into the prison, which at worst requires violent entry causing harm to guards who haven’t done anything to deserve it, and at best requires stealing from them.
REMEMBER: we’re pretending that our character thinks stealing is wrong. We’re pretending that our character has now been faced with a moral dilemma.
Do you understand now you complete idiot?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Okay. So let’s imagine (seemingly impossible for you)
What are you, moronic? I said repeatedly it's imagining. >We’re pretending that our character has now been faced with a moral dilemma.
And not you facing it, you utter spastic. Because, as has been said twice now but you're too fricking stupid to get it: they're imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes. An imaginary character having an imaginary crisis in an imaginary situation is not a moral dilemma, you weak, pathetic b***h.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It sounds like you don’t actually like, or think highly of TTRPGs, or RPGs in general.
Which if that’s the case then why are you even here?
Because at this point you’ve pretty much alienated both sides of the argument as “bitches”.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>It sounds like you don’t actually like, or think highly of TTRPGs, or RPGs in general.
What, because I know they aren't real? >Which if that’s the case then why are you even here?
It's not the case. >Because at this point you’ve pretty much alienated both sides of the argument as “bitches”.
No, the only b***hes are people who think you need to replace enemies with robots just in case it causes some moral dilemma. But please, do go ahead and explain how you think I've alienated my own position.
3 months ago
Anonymous
How would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast today?
3 months ago
Anonymous
The same way I know your mum would feel if she'd not swallowed her usual 20 gallons of semen this morning; hungry.
My argument is the opposite, that Orcs ARE something that can be morally complex. That’s why my usual go-to for “morally uncomplicated henchmen” is robots. Because last I checked no one normally sees smashing a IPhone as somehow immoral.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think you were playing devils advocate for another anon, but yeah we basically agree.
Orcs are utterly depraved. Playing games like throwing babies in the air and seeing who can spit them on their spear is their idea of fun. They are despicable by nature, and even if you were raise one from a baby in the most noble and upstanding way, he'd still be a loathsome abomination. Only a half-orc has a chance to be something different, and it's still only a chance. But this is really what defines a half-orc. The blood of another race absolutely must be present, but the taint of orcishness is strong enough that it normally overrides the nature of whatever they breed with, and only individuals with the wherewithal to be something different are considered half-orcs (though most of them are still murderous thugs, they at least have the ability to be something else). This is more common with smaller amounts of orc heritage, but you can't bank on the proportions. And most "true" orcs carry at least some blood of other races, given how fond they are of forcibly interbreeding with them.
So you're a big fan of genetic predestination then.
Orcs range in type depending on where they are and how they've adapted to the changing world. In the campaign I run the world is about on par with 1600s tech with the isolationist dwarves specifically being much further ahead and nearing an industrial revolution. Orcs traditionally held tribes, have had some relent and join the ever increasing multicultural world and as a result aren't much different than a human behaviorally. Other orcs have resisted the change. One faction united the orc tribes into a great nation with a ruling head acting as a Khan. These orcs maintain their traditions as conquerors and hunters but have had to taper their aggression as they fall behind technologically. Others still rejected the idea of uniting the nomadic clans and sought out alternative sources of power, acting as roaming mercenary or raider bands that travel nation to nation in large camps, clinging to the ancient orc lifestyle of pillaging and plunder. A small offshoot of these orcs entered the under dark under a bargain with the dark powers that reside there, and now their skin is turned black red and blue and they speak a new 'pure' version of orcish. It's up to players how bad they feel about killing them, but most orcs range from about as civilized as the players, a little rough around the edges and maybe slightly stunted culturally, or outright warmongering savages who will kill you on sight. The world itself is pretty wide and they haven't interacted with many yet since they're on the opposite side of the continent still.
They are an extremely pious race/culture.
They firmly believe they are ordained by their highest deity to rule the world.
This does make them have a set of morals and ethics but perhaps not very nice to be around.
Klingons were essentially the Russians during the Cold War. Minus the ideological aspect (I think Gene Rodenberry at least had sympathies for socialism given he keeps any sort of capitalist bent out of Star Trek), but in that they're bad guys, we don't get along, we've got completely opposite worldviews, they're good in a fight and we don't want to piss them off and start a war.
Then however, as you show off more and more of them, you need to find a way to make them a fleshed out culture, and not just analogues for the Russians, which leads to stuff like 'well they're militaristic cause they are a warrior culture!' and such.
The orcs in my setting are mostly simple-minded tribal clans that are great at physical feats but not so much anything else, so most of them are nomadic hunters and looters, but they get along well enough with anything that has the food to placate them from totally leveling shit.
The main outliers are the orcs that live in the entirely stone cities built into the sides of sandy mesas and valleys, where they frequently work together with dragonborn and harpies. Orc wizards exist, and they are all earthbenders.
Orc politicians frequently beat the shit out of each other in these cities, and this is seen as an entirely civil maneuver in Orcish politics.
In Elder Scrolls there's a pretty neat book that's a travel guide for Orcs on how they should act when it they travel outside their stronghold (written by and for Orcs).
It tells them not to pick fights because the other races are nebish people with guards and laws that frown upon that stuff, and are too wimpy to settle disagreements in such a straightforward manner.
It tells them outsiders respect their strength but be careful not to outshine them too much cause they can get jealous. But joining the legion or becoming a mercenary is a pretty good way to earn coin and respect, but conversely they're pussies who don't like banditry.
Lastly it tells them that outsiders respect their forging, and here they can outshine them as much as they please cause they aren't as prissy when it comes to good weapons and armor.
It's pretty fun seeing what the cultural stumbling blocks for them are, and how they tell each-other they should accommodate foriegn cultures.
>Orc politicians frequently beat the shit out of each other in these cities, and this is seen as an entirely civil maneuver in Orcish politics
There are many human societies like this, from ancient Greece to the Confederacy
Orcs are utterly depraved. Playing games like throwing babies in the air and seeing who can spit them on their spear is their idea of fun. They are despicable by nature, and even if you were raise one from a baby in the most noble and upstanding way, he'd still be a loathsome abomination. Only a half-orc has a chance to be something different, and it's still only a chance. But this is really what defines a half-orc. The blood of another race absolutely must be present, but the taint of orcishness is strong enough that it normally overrides the nature of whatever they breed with, and only individuals with the wherewithal to be something different are considered half-orcs (though most of them are still murderous thugs, they at least have the ability to be something else). This is more common with smaller amounts of orc heritage, but you can't bank on the proportions. And most "true" orcs carry at least some blood of other races, given how fond they are of forcibly interbreeding with them.
my orcs are basically elder scrolls orcs, they're a warrior culture obsessed with their own specific definition of what's honorable or not but only apply those standards to other orcs, they don't really give a shit what other races do and are fine trading with them or being hired as mercenaries since winning gold in battle and bringing it home to your kin is considered honorable.
>elder scrolls orcs
Those are some of my favourite takes on orcs, specially "redeemed" or "good" orcs. They are shwon being sociable and intelligent in communities where might makes right.
They are basically bears. Little more than animals who can only harm and pillage, their physiognomy and rituals force them to hybernate for months or years on end so their enviroment/surroundings can heal up before they wake up
Orcs actually incredibly moral with strict adherence to codes of honor and dignity.
It just so happens that these rules of behavior come off as brutal and unforgiving to everyone else. Torturing your children? Toughens them up. Slavery? We can't afford slackers so it's work or the stew pot. Blood duels? Any warrior not willing to defend his honor has no honor to defend.
I will never forgive those warcraft bastards for turning orcs into a race of noble savages. There suppose to be AT BEST a successful version of those soviet human-ape hybrids
>There suppose to be AT BEST a successful version of those soviet human-ape hybrids
Sounds boring. Just another monster to slay in a game full of monsters to slay.
I make my elves based on Assyrian, Armenian, Copt, and Armenian history; orcs are based on Turkic peoples.
So far this has worked better than a charm to break a redditor's mind, who genuinely can't imagine non-Christians being evil or starting "it".
There's always "this guy" and it's almost always an unironic reddit user.
>orcs are based on Turkic peoples >who genuinely can't imagine non-Christians being evil or starting "it".
Not sure if that will help the Orcs image to anyone familiar with history. For example, the Crimean Turks spread the black plague to Europe during a siege of the port city of Caffa. That being said one can make the argument that the plague would have spread west on its own accord.
?t=761
>The siege of Caffa was a siege of the Genoese port town of Caffa by a large Crimean Tatar army under the Golden Horde, led by their Khan Jani Beg. The Golden Horde army allegedly threw the bodies of Tatar warriors who had died of plague over the walls of the besieged city, which is considered one of the earliest examples of biological warfare.[1][2][3][4][5] In Gabriel de Mussis' writings, the Black Death was alleged to have reached Europe from the Crimea as the result of the biological warfare attacks during the siege.[1][6][7]
I knew the Plague wasn't because of a falsely claimed lack of hygiene but this is news to me and I blame the anarcho-bankers and their hatred of fake and gay islamophobia.
Orcs are in mutual competition with humanity, elves, dwarves, half lines and gnomes for the same territory. Orcs are beastmen and serve the powers of Chaos, it's their racial goal to erase civilization and agriculture and make room for their slave war machine instead, the other races obviously don't have any room to compromise with them on this. Orcs aren't "objectively evil" but they are diametrically opposed to the goals of most sophonts.
In my own campaign setting, Orc is something anyone becomes when allows himself to act on savage impulses for too long. You gradually change, become more and more twisted and beast-like, rhe exterior reflecting the interior. Most Orcs are just barbaric humans who forsake the guidance of druids -- wise sages who guide the tribes to keep a sane, harmonic, healthy bond with nature --, in exchange for quick power.
Turning Orc is irreversible. You get power, strenght and resilience, but develop appetite for human flesh and lust for battle and rape. Orcs survive by raid and rape, ignoring any intellectual pursuit, sense of community or goodness. They prey on the weak and desire nothing but thrill of battle.
Barbarians without the guidance of Druids turn Orc. Fighting men that do "whatever it takes" turn Orc. When battle and loot is all you desire, the tusks come out and your body gets stronger, your mind loses interest in everything but the thrills and lusts of blood.
Orcs usually come from desperate barbarian warbands, or from barbaric villages that lost their Druid spiritual guide.
All Orcs are evil people who chose to be like this out of ambition, bloodlust and unbridled rage.
Interesting take, reminds me of Ogres as embodiments of perpetuated abuse. Suggests that other races might have similar behavioural origins, I could definitely see smug wizards or bards aspiring to elfhood for instance or misers going dwarf on their way to dragon.
False binary question.
You've already fallen for the watered down liberal humanist substitution of 'morality' for a soul and that things lacking souls or soul surrogates can be killed without thought. Your entire premise is fricked.
Gamewise I just googled how to spell landersnekt because I'm shit at spelling and discovered an entire website that apparently just recycles Ganker posts as >content
by finding an old post of mine. What a time to be alive.
[...]
You wrote that whole blogpost about googling only to fail at using it for spellchecking. No wonder you quickly jumped to the assumption that someone with a soul would be unable to lack morals. Try breathing out of your mouth less
>being this spooked and thinking spell check has snekderlanchecen
lmao even
You wrote that whole blogpost about googling only to fail at using it for spellchecking. No wonder you quickly jumped to the assumption that someone with a soul would be unable to lack morals. Try breathing out of your mouth less
The old orcish tribes were often unpleasant to deal with but no more so than most other tribes in those half-forgotten days. They had a reputation for being good mercenaries and many of them played heavily into this. They had a strong honor code and sense of duty. They were civilized after a fashion.
Then dick ass wizards with no sense of right or wrong happened. An attempt was made to hybridize orcs with apemen in an attempt to get the useful traits of both. What they got was a green gorrilla monster. They can't be reasond with long term, they will betray any oath when they feel like it, they have no sense morality and are capable of only such parody of civilization as is needed to make war.
The new orcs are now far more numerous than the old orcs and look just similar enough to them to spoil the good name of the old orcs.
Mine are biologically predisposed to violence, and it's generally the first thought an Orc has on how to solve any given problem. Orc society was mainly tribal with as much infighting as there was outside raiding. That was until !OrcJesus was born without any of the violent urges Orcs have(he had Orc Autism). !OrcJesus was an incredibly gifted diplomat who united tribes and brought prosperity wherever he went until he just vanished. He basically single handedly uplifted the Orcs up to par with the rest of the world. Orcs believe he was the only ever blessed Orc(they believe they're all cursed) and do their best to emulate him with mixed results.
I know it's a nothing throw-away spam thread and that nobody actually reads anybody's replies, but I'm still going to scream into the void about things that make me angry.
I really hate orcs and I refuse to use them, at all. I've had players that were indignant because I didn't let them play as half-orcs (they didn't even care about my rationale, they just wanted the stat bonuses).
There's so many flavors of orcs that any given player will have some preconception of them (usually warcraft noble savage bullshit) that I've just replaced them with goblins as the general adversary in my games. And it's because they can be slaughtered without regret and nobody makes a fuss about it, and in fact expects it and looks forward to turning their heads into paste. But orcs, someone is going to complain about the morality, or want to be one of them, or want them to be like other popular kinds of orcs that don't exist in any of the established D&D worlds.
I tried to make them unique in my games, but I realized that anything other than what's mainstream made them stop being orcs. I also realized that Tolkien Orcs and Warhammer (Fantasy) Orcs can't be topped. Combined with the aforementioned, I decided to just give up on them. They're old hat by now, I think.
I get the exhaustion but don't see why players would flinch at orc slaughter while ignoring goblins. Who cares if they "stop being orcs" anyway? Not as immediately legible, sure, but if players go in knowing that they won't be playing a 100% standard setting that oughtn't be a problem.
I can count the amount of people that understood they won't be playing a 100% standard setting on one hand. The rest, I've had to explain it to them, and they still expected to see things they saw in video games, anime or porn. One player insisted to play a half-orc whose human father was abducted by an orc woman and raped in the woods. As funny as that joke was, I had to explain to him that orcs in my setting aren't rapists, and he took it personally.
With goblinkind, I can do whatever I want because nobody cares about them. I wrote them as having cultures of their own, a morality system, a history but they're still evil minions that I use to antagonize the players, because nobody will write any article about how goblins represent [insert underprivileged group here].
You know you can have a campaign where you can have guilt-free murder of Nazi's, but that doesn't mean you should treat Germans as being genetically evil.
One can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I'm just so sick of the baggage they come with that I don't want to bother anymore. I came up with a version of orcs for my game that was essentially tolkien orcs but without the tragic aspect: an invasive species with a cruel and alien mind that attacks anything that isn't an orc. I liked it, but some players still saw them as overgrown green humans, so I gave up.
If I need an evil organized enemy, I can use goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears. If I need an evil barbaric enemy, I can use gnolls, minotaurs, ogres. If I need an elite evil enemy, I can use demons. Orcs can remain relegated to rule34 artwork, which is what most people use them for nowdays.
You know you can have a campaign where you can have guilt-free murder of Nazi's, but that doesn't mean you should treat Germans as being genetically evil.
They can, but they're instinctively prone to cruelty and violence do to being descended from demons and orcs in most places have that sort of thing beaten out of them during childhood.
Different sub-species of orcs can be in the same setting. Warcraft orcs are the best player character option (basically just Klingons). The low functioning violent ones (Warhammer, LotR, old D&D) are great as npc antagonists. Orcs descending from Elves was always stupid though. Warcraft Orcs and Ogres share a common ancestor, which makes more sense.
Depends sometimes i have tribes that are more honor/warrior culture based drawing on native American and Klingon ideas but they will still rape and pillage
Ancient Near Eastern fantasy so using ghouls but, neither
>Ghouls are first and foremost defined by their hunger >not lust or greed but literal hunger >as such the most important thing for a ghoul is to sate themselves >organized into swarming war bands led by a single elder 'Ghoul witch' who acts as psychic focal point and the brains of the operation >generally their ranking of value goes as follows swarm>witch>them>individual members of the swarm>>>>>>
[...]
else >sapient enough to have a morality of 'might makes right when we do it' but not reflective enough to respect enemies or have a real code of honor >can actually be cordial with humans and other races if they have nothing to gain by killing and eating them
The author of this comic acknowledges that it is not a moral choice to participate in a war of mutual extermination, which is correct. Then he misrepresents Tolkien when he says >Having bad taste in art is hardly a justification of genocide though,
As a defense of orcs, but actually orcs are the ones who want to commit genocide because they don't like the works of elves and men. The good guys in Lord of the Rings are explicitly fighting against invaders who want to genocide them, the opposite of a "colonial justification" in literally every way. So I like this comic when combined with the commentary because it includes all the reasons people don't like evil orcs. They can either say "morality doesn't apply here" so OK it's not wrong then? Or they are completely blind to who the aggressor is because of intense self-hate and biases.
Lord of the Rings doesn't really confront the problem since it's outside the scope of the story. The Orcs the good guys fight are all under the command of Sauron, or Saruman, two evil people. Maybe they aren't all mega-evil themselves, but the rules of warfare mean it's okay to kill them, in the same way not everyone drafted by the Nazi's were evil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't still shoot Nazi's.
The problem is we don't really get a good look at what Orcs are like when they aren't taking orders for Sauron, and the door remains open that at least some of them are stand-up guys.
My orcs are not inherently evil, but they are too rough for most other races to live alongside. Kind of like Klingons. Half-orcs are more tolerable and have wider acceptance.
Not my setting, but Worlds Without Number comes with its own species' of not-orc called Anakim. They are derived from human stock and were implanted with an irrational hatred of all mankind. Anakim are hereditary psychopaths who only care for themselves. Normally I find this always-evil race thing to be dull but the setting threw a curve ball: Some of the Anakim discovered (and mass-converted to) not(?)-Christianity. It's a repressive fire-and-brimstone heavy variant that keeps them in line by threatening eternal damnation or meting out harsh punishments. Each Anakim only cares about their own personal escape from torment into heavenly paradise, but that means being better people. The interesting part is that they seem to acknowledge the contradiction and admit they are inherently fricked up, but also that they are no more or less automatically damned than any other race. I find that to be a fascinating setup.
>the orc looks like he really wants to cave your skull in but glances down at the wwjd bracelet around his trembling wrist and seethes out a low growl between his fangs >"...would you like to read some our literature today?"
You tell us about yours first. Be specific.
They are to some extent able to tell right from wrong. They just don't care about it and enjoy being sadistic and cruel. Originally they were bred to do evil deeds by a dark wizard from his slaves and the most ruthless servants of his. Barbarism therefore lies in their very nature. However it is not unthinkable that an orc who was taken from his "parents" (quotation marks because orc children are completely neglected by their organic producer and not treated as offspring at all; only the strongest and most cunnings survive as a result) could theoretically be redeemed to some extent. Only if the adoptive parents show an incredible huge amount of love, care and effort when raising the orc that is. The result would never lead to a "good" orc but could theoretically result in a morally neutral orc so to speak. Nobody in his right mind would even bothered with such a task so orc redemption is purely hypothetical and has never happened. How about you?
>How about you?
Don't get your hopes up. He won't give you any substantial answer. Probably no answer at all. He's just an insufferable homosexual that gets off on being annoying on the internet.
I don't use orcs since it's swords & sorcery. I have a race of subhuman beastmen who despise mankind and consider them prey and sacrifices to their gods. These subhumans were created through alchemical and magical devolution of humans by an extinct race of alien serpent-men to serve as their slaves (men are too smart and willful). These days the subhumanoids live in small and quarrelsome tribes, raiding human settlements for meat and sacrifices, worshiping the outer demons their creators bargained with as gods. Humans CAN master them, but only through fear and power.
Their sense of morality is pretty unsympathetic. Strength is right to them. Tribes are ruled by the strongest men, who keep a harem of women. Other males are either his sons or brothers. Sometimes they'll leave to start another tribe, which can turn deadly if they choose to steal a woman. If a male is feeling froggy, he may challenge his leader for headmanship of the tribe. This ends in the old leader's death or expulsion. The only class of male exempt from this are the priests, who always choose their own successors from among other males, usually non-violently. It is forbidden for a non-priest to kill a priest, which means they have outsize political power. Thus bribing his acolytes to murder him is a socially acceptable way of getting rid of a troublemaker.
A common but false belief they have is that they came before humans. Many of them believe and hope that when their masters return, the "thieving" humans will all be wiped out in a great sacrificial pyre.
They have some virtues we might consider moral. You are expected to fight for your brothers and the chieftain's women in the tribe to the death. You are expected to share with your brothers if you have excess, unless they're lazy or weak. Their gods are evil and mad but their piety is sincere, not mere fear.
>I don't use orcs since it's swords & sorcery. (Proceeds to define orcs)
Ape-men are older than orcs. It's more accurate to say orcs are just gay green ape-men.
>Or
You're not creative enough if you can't imagine both being true at the same time.
You can't just post Miranda without source.
That's a cut-out from the official backstory comic.
>You're not creative enough if you can't imagine both being true at the same time.
Yeah frick those creatively bankrupt idiots right
>illiterate
>hiding behind an incredibly skilled writer
Lol
I've always wanted to run a game where there's modern orcs that are the green Conans we all know, but they're descended from Tolkein-style servile wretches who were abandoned after their previous master was defeated, some of which are still prodded along by lesser evil masters.
I do like the idea of 'there was some ancient war in the distant past that created Orcs, but it's been centuries around, and they're still around and we've got to grapple with how society moves on'.
I also think there's a lot of fun you could use in an 'Orc Conquerer' Campaign. Imagine the fall of Rome but you play as the Huns. There's a giant Elven Empire full of riches, but it's doomed to collapse, and you may as well take a bunch of Orcs and take what you can get (elf slaves and everything).
The real tricky part wouldn't be conquering the Elves, it'd be finding an effective way to administrate them and keep your new kingdom together with there being a mix of Orc and Elven populations, and having to adopt some Elven institutions without coming across as too much of a pussy to your fellow Orcs. Imagine having the option to upgrade from random furs covering your half-naked body to elven-silk pajama's but all your Orc soldiers think that doing so will make you a gay sisssy-boy.
I too like having my cake and eating it where possible.
See that kind of irretrievable damnation is why Tolkien could be ambivalent about them, the stubborn fallen actively choosing to reject redemption's one thing but the brutalised being lost to it's entirely another.
Not strictly greenskins or uruk but pigdog uplifts filling a similar niche. The "guiltless slaughter-fodder" bit comes of individual beasts being sub-sapient. The simplest form of sapience among them is when an ergregore "dark lord" through hallucination and shared purpose, usually as the runts are forced into scrums by their territorial betters. The newborn Lord not only awakens to a war for survival but can only wage it by herding its body of sohrt-sighted morons. Even when they eventually come to understand that other races operate as individuals there are still the habits of viciousness, self-hatred and frustration between them and civility. The terrified wretches that compose them would willingly revert to savagery if they could and should the tyrant-tulpa's grip slacken often will. Fortunately most mature and settle into a companionable sort of violence, often taking prisoners as much for the pleasure of conversation as ransom.
I mean sranc are pretty much that via biotech ayys, nice explanation of the traditional elvish resemblance if you fancy sticking with that too.
Noice, occasional atavism would be a b***h though perhaps as having outgrown their moral deformity simple exposure's not the done thing anymore.
Alright how about this way. That girl you posted? She would be pregnant within 1 hour of meeting them.
Not likely, she has a pretty protective hubby who made a career of hunting down PC-tier villains before retiring and un-retiring into a mid-life crisis as a part-time outlaw.
Scum who deserve no mercy as they will betray you at the first sign of weakness.
I enjoy both noble savage Warcraft orcs and evil Tolkienesque mudmen.
They're sentient humanoid creatures with a pension to raid and pillage. Merciless killers who don't waste time making their own tools/equipment if they don't have to, and find the best method for resource gathering/economic efficiency involves taking the enemy's treasure and tech for themselves, since it both aids Orc clans while weakening your enemy in the same stoke. Any time spent engineering or smithing involves retrofitting these pilfered resources to fit whatever need the Orc clans current demand of them.
Orcs are industrious, brave, strong, stalwart, and clever with deep cultural traditions and even systems of law.
Unfortunately --outside of the Wandering Orc itinerant adventurer types (seen as lucky omens and wisemen, they're also often Orc exiles and outlaws)-- Orc society is, by and large, violently incompatible with the cultures of Elf, Dwarf, and Man.
Mine just similar to the times when raiding was common. They dont feel bad because they cant. They will starve if they feel bad. Orcish land doesnt grow much and no one wants to trade with them(orcs will always think you screwed them over in a trade anyways)
If an orc isn't an immoral, selfish, sadistic, monstrous bandit, then it isn't an orc.
Looks more like a large goblin to me
In Tolkien's works Orcs are corrupted by Morgoth beyond saving. Killing them is an act of mercy, but if you're seeking too much power in order to destroy them you can easily turn into a killing machine consumed by evil
Orcs only being one way is boring and lazy. Simple as.
I like the idea they tend to live as raiders but still occasionally get hired by other races as hunters or mercenaries.
My settings don’t have orcs, not normally anyway.
If I need a horde of henchmen for the BBEG to throw at the players My first pick is honestly…
Robots.
Narratively simple, easy to explain huge numbers of them appearing, or laying dormant for long periods of time, BBEG no longer needs to be in anyway powerful or charismatic to command them, there’s really no moral dilemma in destroying them as it’s really just breaking the bad guy’s toys, and there’s something diabolical and alien about an adversary who’s entire motivations begin and end with “because I was told to”.
Oh, and also, there’s literally no moral dilemma created from the good guys using robots themselves either.
>there’s really no moral dilemma in destroying them
What sort of leftist turbohomosexuals you play with if this is a talking point under any circumstances.
> What sort of leftist turbohomosexuals you play with if this is a talking point under any circumstances.
Um, that’s you guys. Here on /tg/, that have ever cried “robots are a slave race”
So you want zero moral complexity in all your media cause, what its based or something?
It's because he's too moronic to understand nuance. It makes his pea brain hurt, he only understands black and white child logic, so he needs all his media to reaffirm his weak, easily shattered beliefs or else he'll have a mental breakdown.
I think it's more likely that he just doesn't get moral dilemmas from imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes. At least, that's why I think you're both moronic, soft-hearted, lefty b***hes, but I'll let him explain otherwise.
> more likely that he just doesn't get moral dilemmas from imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes.
Also a fair point. IRL has enough of that moral grey and overly complicated situations as it is and some of us use TTRPGs to relax and unwind, so the last thing anyone wants is a bunch of moral dilemma and heavy content in a game meant to get the frick away from that.
You’ll understand once you grow up and have to interact with the world for a living.
>Also a fair point. IRL has enough of that moral grey and overly complicated situations as it is and some of us use TTRPGs to relax and unwind, so the last thing anyone wants is a bunch of moral dilemma and heavy content in a game meant to get the frick away from that.
No, the point is that you can't ever have moral dilemmas, because as I already said, they're imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes.
>You’ll understand once you grow up and have to interact with the world for a living.
Says the moron that things playing pretend is a moral difficulty. Grow up.
What a moronic post.
>there can never be physical danger in games because it’s imaginary, even if your character dies you are completely unharmed so there are no stakes
>steal from the guard? I can’t steal anything from them, they’re imaginary so I don’t get anything that my character takes because it isn’t real. There are no stakes.
Why even bother roleplaying with this attitude? So stupid.
can never be physical danger in games because it’s imaginary, even if your character dies you are completely unharmed so there are no stakes
Yes.
>steal from the guard? I can’t steal anything from them, they’re imaginary so I don’t get anything that my character takes because it isn’t real. There are no stakes.
No, that's moronic. But it would be equally moronic to think imaginary stealing from an imaginary guard is some how a moral quandry that would make you weep and cry over the act. It's not real, you dense frick. It's for fun. It's make believe. It's playing pretend. Get it, moron?
Some people enjoy pretending what they'd do in a morally complex situation. It's why No alot of movies dont have extremely black and white conflicts to them.
Okay. So let’s imagine (seemingly impossible for you) that you are playing pretend by playing a pretend character that thinks stealing is wrong. Please, take as long as you need to do this.
Now pretend that you’re playing a character who thinks stealing is wrong, and who needs to interrogate a prisoner about where his kidnapped sister is being held captive.
Now pretend that your character can’t think about any way to ask the prisoner without getting into the prison, which at worst requires violent entry causing harm to guards who haven’t done anything to deserve it, and at best requires stealing from them.
REMEMBER: we’re pretending that our character thinks stealing is wrong. We’re pretending that our character has now been faced with a moral dilemma.
Do you understand now you complete idiot?
>Okay. So let’s imagine (seemingly impossible for you)
What are you, moronic? I said repeatedly it's imagining.
>We’re pretending that our character has now been faced with a moral dilemma.
And not you facing it, you utter spastic. Because, as has been said twice now but you're too fricking stupid to get it: they're imaginary roleplaying games where there's no moral stakes. An imaginary character having an imaginary crisis in an imaginary situation is not a moral dilemma, you weak, pathetic b***h.
It sounds like you don’t actually like, or think highly of TTRPGs, or RPGs in general.
Which if that’s the case then why are you even here?
Because at this point you’ve pretty much alienated both sides of the argument as “bitches”.
>It sounds like you don’t actually like, or think highly of TTRPGs, or RPGs in general.
What, because I know they aren't real?
>Which if that’s the case then why are you even here?
It's not the case.
>Because at this point you’ve pretty much alienated both sides of the argument as “bitches”.
No, the only b***hes are people who think you need to replace enemies with robots just in case it causes some moral dilemma. But please, do go ahead and explain how you think I've alienated my own position.
How would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast today?
The same way I know your mum would feel if she'd not swallowed her usual 20 gallons of semen this morning; hungry.
There are no moral dilemmas in Us vs. Them when Them are a threat, be it in ttrpgs or irl.
Look, sometimes you just want/need an uncomplicated adversary. There’s many reasons for this and there’s nothing wrong with it.
Sure. But arguing that therefore you can't make orcs morally complex or your part of the woke mind virus is moronic.
Uhh, I don’t think we’re on the same page.
My argument is the opposite, that Orcs ARE something that can be morally complex. That’s why my usual go-to for “morally uncomplicated henchmen” is robots. Because last I checked no one normally sees smashing a IPhone as somehow immoral.
I think you were playing devils advocate for another anon, but yeah we basically agree.
So you're a big fan of genetic predestination then.
I don't have orcs because they're boring.
You can orc it anyway you want.
Theoretically you can eat shit. You shouldn't though.
Orcs range in type depending on where they are and how they've adapted to the changing world. In the campaign I run the world is about on par with 1600s tech with the isolationist dwarves specifically being much further ahead and nearing an industrial revolution. Orcs traditionally held tribes, have had some relent and join the ever increasing multicultural world and as a result aren't much different than a human behaviorally. Other orcs have resisted the change. One faction united the orc tribes into a great nation with a ruling head acting as a Khan. These orcs maintain their traditions as conquerors and hunters but have had to taper their aggression as they fall behind technologically. Others still rejected the idea of uniting the nomadic clans and sought out alternative sources of power, acting as roaming mercenary or raider bands that travel nation to nation in large camps, clinging to the ancient orc lifestyle of pillaging and plunder. A small offshoot of these orcs entered the under dark under a bargain with the dark powers that reside there, and now their skin is turned black red and blue and they speak a new 'pure' version of orcish. It's up to players how bad they feel about killing them, but most orcs range from about as civilized as the players, a little rough around the edges and maybe slightly stunted culturally, or outright warmongering savages who will kill you on sight. The world itself is pretty wide and they haven't interacted with many yet since they're on the opposite side of the continent still.
They are an extremely pious race/culture.
They firmly believe they are ordained by their highest deity to rule the world.
This does make them have a set of morals and ethics but perhaps not very nice to be around.
Yes, my Orcs are basically Klingons in how they act, to the point that I use Klingon for their language.
Aren't klingons inspired by orcs
Might be the other way around.
Klingons were essentially the Russians during the Cold War. Minus the ideological aspect (I think Gene Rodenberry at least had sympathies for socialism given he keeps any sort of capitalist bent out of Star Trek), but in that they're bad guys, we don't get along, we've got completely opposite worldviews, they're good in a fight and we don't want to piss them off and start a war.
Then however, as you show off more and more of them, you need to find a way to make them a fleshed out culture, and not just analogues for the Russians, which leads to stuff like 'well they're militaristic cause they are a warrior culture!' and such.
The orcs in my setting are mostly simple-minded tribal clans that are great at physical feats but not so much anything else, so most of them are nomadic hunters and looters, but they get along well enough with anything that has the food to placate them from totally leveling shit.
The main outliers are the orcs that live in the entirely stone cities built into the sides of sandy mesas and valleys, where they frequently work together with dragonborn and harpies. Orc wizards exist, and they are all earthbenders.
Orc politicians frequently beat the shit out of each other in these cities, and this is seen as an entirely civil maneuver in Orcish politics.
In Elder Scrolls there's a pretty neat book that's a travel guide for Orcs on how they should act when it they travel outside their stronghold (written by and for Orcs).
It tells them not to pick fights because the other races are nebish people with guards and laws that frown upon that stuff, and are too wimpy to settle disagreements in such a straightforward manner.
It tells them outsiders respect their strength but be careful not to outshine them too much cause they can get jealous. But joining the legion or becoming a mercenary is a pretty good way to earn coin and respect, but conversely they're pussies who don't like banditry.
Lastly it tells them that outsiders respect their forging, and here they can outshine them as much as they please cause they aren't as prissy when it comes to good weapons and armor.
It's pretty fun seeing what the cultural stumbling blocks for them are, and how they tell each-other they should accommodate foriegn cultures.
>Orc politicians frequently beat the shit out of each other in these cities, and this is seen as an entirely civil maneuver in Orcish politics
There are many human societies like this, from ancient Greece to the Confederacy
Orcs are utterly depraved. Playing games like throwing babies in the air and seeing who can spit them on their spear is their idea of fun. They are despicable by nature, and even if you were raise one from a baby in the most noble and upstanding way, he'd still be a loathsome abomination. Only a half-orc has a chance to be something different, and it's still only a chance. But this is really what defines a half-orc. The blood of another race absolutely must be present, but the taint of orcishness is strong enough that it normally overrides the nature of whatever they breed with, and only individuals with the wherewithal to be something different are considered half-orcs (though most of them are still murderous thugs, they at least have the ability to be something else). This is more common with smaller amounts of orc heritage, but you can't bank on the proportions. And most "true" orcs carry at least some blood of other races, given how fond they are of forcibly interbreeding with them.
I just assume their evil, nothing about their existence or goals indicates any sort of hidden good
There's evil though, and theres inherent evil.
Like raping and pillaging is evil sure. But a lot of humans rape and pillage.
They do. But you can still slaughter them without regret.
my orcs are basically elder scrolls orcs, they're a warrior culture obsessed with their own specific definition of what's honorable or not but only apply those standards to other orcs, they don't really give a shit what other races do and are fine trading with them or being hired as mercenaries since winning gold in battle and bringing it home to your kin is considered honorable.
>elder scrolls orcs
Those are some of my favourite takes on orcs, specially "redeemed" or "good" orcs. They are shwon being sociable and intelligent in communities where might makes right.
They are basically bears. Little more than animals who can only harm and pillage, their physiognomy and rituals force them to hybernate for months or years on end so their enviroment/surroundings can heal up before they wake up
They can absolutely be slaughtered without regret. They say funny things while they're dying if you know their language.
Orcs actually incredibly moral with strict adherence to codes of honor and dignity.
It just so happens that these rules of behavior come off as brutal and unforgiving to everyone else. Torturing your children? Toughens them up. Slavery? We can't afford slackers so it's work or the stew pot. Blood duels? Any warrior not willing to defend his honor has no honor to defend.
I will never forgive those warcraft bastards for turning orcs into a race of noble savages. There suppose to be AT BEST a successful version of those soviet human-ape hybrids
>There suppose to be AT BEST a successful version of those soviet human-ape hybrids
Sounds boring. Just another monster to slay in a game full of monsters to slay.
nah they got it right
I make my elves based on Assyrian, Armenian, Copt, and Armenian history; orcs are based on Turkic peoples.
So far this has worked better than a charm to break a redditor's mind, who genuinely can't imagine non-Christians being evil or starting "it".
There's always "this guy" and it's almost always an unironic reddit user.
>orcs are based on Turkic peoples
>who genuinely can't imagine non-Christians being evil or starting "it".
Not sure if that will help the Orcs image to anyone familiar with history. For example, the Crimean Turks spread the black plague to Europe during a siege of the port city of Caffa. That being said one can make the argument that the plague would have spread west on its own accord.
?t=761
>The siege of Caffa was a siege of the Genoese port town of Caffa by a large Crimean Tatar army under the Golden Horde, led by their Khan Jani Beg. The Golden Horde army allegedly threw the bodies of Tatar warriors who had died of plague over the walls of the besieged city, which is considered one of the earliest examples of biological warfare.[1][2][3][4][5] In Gabriel de Mussis' writings, the Black Death was alleged to have reached Europe from the Crimea as the result of the biological warfare attacks during the siege.[1][6][7]
I knew the Plague wasn't because of a falsely claimed lack of hygiene but this is news to me and I blame the anarcho-bankers and their hatred of fake and gay islamophobia.
I tend to leave out Uyghurs and Kazakhs because they the civilized ones.
Nothing is objectively evil, but everyone will kill orcs for being the wrong race.
So they are the victims?
Not especially, no. They're a race in conflict with most other races, they're frequently the ones victimizing others.
>everyone will kill orcs for being the wrong race.
sure as hell sounds like they are the ones being victimized
Orcs are in mutual competition with humanity, elves, dwarves, half lines and gnomes for the same territory. Orcs are beastmen and serve the powers of Chaos, it's their racial goal to erase civilization and agriculture and make room for their slave war machine instead, the other races obviously don't have any room to compromise with them on this. Orcs aren't "objectively evil" but they are diametrically opposed to the goals of most sophonts.
Not if they deserve it.
that's a weird interpretation of morality
>punishing people for doing bad things is LE weird
lol I know who you vote for
In my own campaign setting, Orc is something anyone becomes when allows himself to act on savage impulses for too long. You gradually change, become more and more twisted and beast-like, rhe exterior reflecting the interior. Most Orcs are just barbaric humans who forsake the guidance of druids -- wise sages who guide the tribes to keep a sane, harmonic, healthy bond with nature --, in exchange for quick power.
Turning Orc is irreversible. You get power, strenght and resilience, but develop appetite for human flesh and lust for battle and rape. Orcs survive by raid and rape, ignoring any intellectual pursuit, sense of community or goodness. They prey on the weak and desire nothing but thrill of battle.
Barbarians without the guidance of Druids turn Orc. Fighting men that do "whatever it takes" turn Orc. When battle and loot is all you desire, the tusks come out and your body gets stronger, your mind loses interest in everything but the thrills and lusts of blood.
Orcs usually come from desperate barbarian warbands, or from barbaric villages that lost their Druid spiritual guide.
All Orcs are evil people who chose to be like this out of ambition, bloodlust and unbridled rage.
Interesting take, reminds me of Ogres as embodiments of perpetuated abuse. Suggests that other races might have similar behavioural origins, I could definitely see smug wizards or bards aspiring to elfhood for instance or misers going dwarf on their way to dragon.
>Do your orcs posess a sense of morality?
Yes.
>Or are they wholly evil and can be slaughtered without regret.
Also yes.
False binary question.
You've already fallen for the watered down liberal humanist substitution of 'morality' for a soul and that things lacking souls or soul surrogates can be killed without thought. Your entire premise is fricked.
Gamewise I just googled how to spell landersnekt because I'm shit at spelling and discovered an entire website that apparently just recycles Ganker posts as
>content
by finding an old post of mine. What a time to be alive.
Did you mean Landsknechte?
likely
Spelling is not a thing I am good at.
So 'morality' is a woke concept now?
>being this spooked and thinking spell check has snekderlanchecen
lmao even
it unironically is
You wrote that whole blogpost about googling only to fail at using it for spellchecking. No wonder you quickly jumped to the assumption that someone with a soul would be unable to lack morals. Try breathing out of your mouth less
Depends on the type of orc.
The old orcish tribes were often unpleasant to deal with but no more so than most other tribes in those half-forgotten days. They had a reputation for being good mercenaries and many of them played heavily into this. They had a strong honor code and sense of duty. They were civilized after a fashion.
Then dick ass wizards with no sense of right or wrong happened. An attempt was made to hybridize orcs with apemen in an attempt to get the useful traits of both. What they got was a green gorrilla monster. They can't be reasond with long term, they will betray any oath when they feel like it, they have no sense morality and are capable of only such parody of civilization as is needed to make war.
The new orcs are now far more numerous than the old orcs and look just similar enough to them to spoil the good name of the old orcs.
Mine are biologically predisposed to violence, and it's generally the first thought an Orc has on how to solve any given problem. Orc society was mainly tribal with as much infighting as there was outside raiding. That was until !OrcJesus was born without any of the violent urges Orcs have(he had Orc Autism). !OrcJesus was an incredibly gifted diplomat who united tribes and brought prosperity wherever he went until he just vanished. He basically single handedly uplifted the Orcs up to par with the rest of the world. Orcs believe he was the only ever blessed Orc(they believe they're all cursed) and do their best to emulate him with mixed results.
I prefer greenskins when they're Liverpool fans with a severe case of ADHD
I know it's a nothing throw-away spam thread and that nobody actually reads anybody's replies, but I'm still going to scream into the void about things that make me angry.
I really hate orcs and I refuse to use them, at all. I've had players that were indignant because I didn't let them play as half-orcs (they didn't even care about my rationale, they just wanted the stat bonuses).
There's so many flavors of orcs that any given player will have some preconception of them (usually warcraft noble savage bullshit) that I've just replaced them with goblins as the general adversary in my games. And it's because they can be slaughtered without regret and nobody makes a fuss about it, and in fact expects it and looks forward to turning their heads into paste. But orcs, someone is going to complain about the morality, or want to be one of them, or want them to be like other popular kinds of orcs that don't exist in any of the established D&D worlds.
I tried to make them unique in my games, but I realized that anything other than what's mainstream made them stop being orcs. I also realized that Tolkien Orcs and Warhammer (Fantasy) Orcs can't be topped. Combined with the aforementioned, I decided to just give up on them. They're old hat by now, I think.
I get the exhaustion but don't see why players would flinch at orc slaughter while ignoring goblins. Who cares if they "stop being orcs" anyway? Not as immediately legible, sure, but if players go in knowing that they won't be playing a 100% standard setting that oughtn't be a problem.
I can count the amount of people that understood they won't be playing a 100% standard setting on one hand. The rest, I've had to explain it to them, and they still expected to see things they saw in video games, anime or porn. One player insisted to play a half-orc whose human father was abducted by an orc woman and raped in the woods. As funny as that joke was, I had to explain to him that orcs in my setting aren't rapists, and he took it personally.
With goblinkind, I can do whatever I want because nobody cares about them. I wrote them as having cultures of their own, a morality system, a history but they're still evil minions that I use to antagonize the players, because nobody will write any article about how goblins represent [insert underprivileged group here].
I'm just so sick of the baggage they come with that I don't want to bother anymore. I came up with a version of orcs for my game that was essentially tolkien orcs but without the tragic aspect: an invasive species with a cruel and alien mind that attacks anything that isn't an orc. I liked it, but some players still saw them as overgrown green humans, so I gave up.
If I need an evil organized enemy, I can use goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears. If I need an evil barbaric enemy, I can use gnolls, minotaurs, ogres. If I need an elite evil enemy, I can use demons. Orcs can remain relegated to rule34 artwork, which is what most people use them for nowdays.
Next time use the undead or darkspwan.
You know you can have a campaign where you can have guilt-free murder of Nazi's, but that doesn't mean you should treat Germans as being genetically evil.
One can walk and chew gum at the same time.
they are obsessed with eugenics and isolationism
They can, but they're instinctively prone to cruelty and violence do to being descended from demons and orcs in most places have that sort of thing beaten out of them during childhood.
Different sub-species of orcs can be in the same setting. Warcraft orcs are the best player character option (basically just Klingons). The low functioning violent ones (Warhammer, LotR, old D&D) are great as npc antagonists. Orcs descending from Elves was always stupid though. Warcraft Orcs and Ogres share a common ancestor, which makes more sense.
I don't use orcs and neither should you.
Fantasy can be anything you want and you choose to use the same shit as everyone else?
What races do you use?
>fixation on novelty
You watch tranime
Depends sometimes i have tribes that are more honor/warrior culture based drawing on native American and Klingon ideas but they will still rape and pillage
Ancient Near Eastern fantasy so using ghouls but, neither
>Ghouls are first and foremost defined by their hunger
>not lust or greed but literal hunger
>as such the most important thing for a ghoul is to sate themselves
>organized into swarming war bands led by a single elder 'Ghoul witch' who acts as psychic focal point and the brains of the operation
>generally their ranking of value goes as follows swarm>witch>them>individual members of the swarm>>>>>>
else
>sapient enough to have a morality of 'might makes right when we do it' but not reflective enough to respect enemies or have a real code of honor
>can actually be cordial with humans and other races if they have nothing to gain by killing and eating them
Orcs are just the standard evil creature race in my setting.
They can be slaughtered without regret.
The author of this comic acknowledges that it is not a moral choice to participate in a war of mutual extermination, which is correct. Then he misrepresents Tolkien when he says
>Having bad taste in art is hardly a justification of genocide though,
As a defense of orcs, but actually orcs are the ones who want to commit genocide because they don't like the works of elves and men. The good guys in Lord of the Rings are explicitly fighting against invaders who want to genocide them, the opposite of a "colonial justification" in literally every way. So I like this comic when combined with the commentary because it includes all the reasons people don't like evil orcs. They can either say "morality doesn't apply here" so OK it's not wrong then? Or they are completely blind to who the aggressor is because of intense self-hate and biases.
Lord of the Rings doesn't really confront the problem since it's outside the scope of the story. The Orcs the good guys fight are all under the command of Sauron, or Saruman, two evil people. Maybe they aren't all mega-evil themselves, but the rules of warfare mean it's okay to kill them, in the same way not everyone drafted by the Nazi's were evil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't still shoot Nazi's.
The problem is we don't really get a good look at what Orcs are like when they aren't taking orders for Sauron, and the door remains open that at least some of them are stand-up guys.
The Moria ones were presumably more or less indipendent.
Well, yes:
"If is good for me, good, if is bad for me, smash it ubtil it becomes good for me again"
Someone post the image of the orc nun telling her orc congregation to not rape female knights "too much"
My orcs are not inherently evil, but they are too rough for most other races to live alongside. Kind of like Klingons. Half-orcs are more tolerable and have wider acceptance.
Not my setting, but Worlds Without Number comes with its own species' of not-orc called Anakim. They are derived from human stock and were implanted with an irrational hatred of all mankind. Anakim are hereditary psychopaths who only care for themselves. Normally I find this always-evil race thing to be dull but the setting threw a curve ball: Some of the Anakim discovered (and mass-converted to) not(?)-Christianity. It's a repressive fire-and-brimstone heavy variant that keeps them in line by threatening eternal damnation or meting out harsh punishments. Each Anakim only cares about their own personal escape from torment into heavenly paradise, but that means being better people. The interesting part is that they seem to acknowledge the contradiction and admit they are inherently fricked up, but also that they are no more or less automatically damned than any other race. I find that to be a fascinating setup.
>the orc looks like he really wants to cave your skull in but glances down at the wwjd bracelet around his trembling wrist and seethes out a low growl between his fangs
>"...would you like to read some our literature today?"