Does anyone actually miss dungeons?
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Does anyone actually miss dungeons?
Does anyone actually miss dungeons?
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me
I do
Based as frick
Lmao cringe short attention span homosexuals
>inb4 this gay complains about DiaPer being too slow
Diamond and Pearl were great game and I never felt bothered by the game speed. I look back on it as a relatively relaxing experience when I play them these days.
Based. I also had low standards.
If I had low standards I would have said XY were good
If I had low standards I would have said DP were good
I have extremely high standards, i refuse to play any game that doesn't feel competently designed and well finished, or any game that just hands out everything to the player for free. I think what modern pokemon lacks the most is specifically elitism.
DP are among the best games in the franchise
Based as frick
The fricking Victreebel kills me every tims
The new games don't even have dungeons anymore? Kek i'm glad i stopped playing them
ok
yeah if pokemon was any other franchise, it'd have become a widely-accepted joke by now
They have massive, gaping, low resolution caverns with frick all in them, if that counts,
sounds like what we had in sinnoh
Mental illness
unsure bait
>massive, gaping, caverns
sounds like yawngay's butthole
oh cool I love rock tunnel
You can't make a dungeon with the game's current mechanics.
Dungeons relied pushing you down a narrow path, the games are now fully open and you have the mount that can jump everywhere.
It's the same problem Assassins Creed ran into, that it can't have parkour puzzles anymore because now you can just climb any surface.
>It's the same problem Assassins Creed ran into, that it can't have parkour puzzles anymore because now you can just climb any surface
it's not the same because you can easily just make a restricted map and limit the players movement options within it. the dungeon is obviously not going to be part of the open world, but an enclosed space accessed through a cave or something. if there's Pokemon that trivialize progression, disable them in that section. it's a pretty easy workaround because it's not something that's baked into any core mechanics, it's just a consequence of map design. and you solve that by...moving to a different map.
plenty of open world games have dungeons, this is really not an issue at all
I was going to say randomly restricting things would be stupid, but this is the game that went
>hurr you can't use a bike indoors because of that time professor Oak called you a moron
>plenty of open world games have dungeons, this is really not an issue at all
this. Pokemon has been copying Breath of the Wild for most of its Switch games yet Breath of the Wild has pretty good 3D dungeons. Literally what is stopping them from having water currents and pushable boulders that drop to other floors like OP image?
That just means the game's current mechanics are shit and should be thrown out the window
No, what they should do is get Monolith to design the open world.
One of Pokemon's biggest issues has always been that the open world is not actually open, is just a series of corridors that you have to follow in such a specific order that the game might as well be completely linear.
Open world is shit and can't work in a pokemon context
Yes it can, and it can work way better than any other format, it's just Game Freak doesn't even try.
No, it can't. Pokemon is a JRPG, it needs to have a coherent and linear story, level curve, and give you better options as you progress, which is only possible through unlocking new areas as you go.
Slopen world is a shit fad and i can't wait for it to die
>it needs to have a coherent and linear story
Who cares about the story?
At this point they should just forget about it, make your MC a blank character and just let you train to do whatever.
I don't give a frick about another "bad team awakens legendary" shit, even more when we've already seen with SM what happens when GF focuses on the plot, that they deliver the same shit as always but with a billion cutscenes.
>level curve
Level scaling.
>give you better options as you progress
Pokemon already does that by locking what levels your Pokemons may reach before not doing what you want by locking your progress behind badges.
Again, just get Monolith to do it, it's what Nintendo did with Breath of the Wild.
>Who cares about the story?
Gens 4 and 5 had great story. As long as it's pokemon focused and no fujoshitter pandering garbage like gen 9 more story is a positive
>Level scaling
...is absolute garbage that completely defeats any attempt at a coherent world building and feels completely unnatural and videogame-y. Especially if wild pokemon scale to your level as well.
>Pokemon already does that by locking what levels your Pokemons may reach before not doing what you want by locking your progress behind badges
..........what?
>Again, just get Monolith to do it, it's what Nintendo did with [COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRANCHISE WITH COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MECHANICS]
You sure showed me, anon.
>Gens 4 and 5 had great story.
Yeah, about the bad guys awakening the legendary again.
>...is absolute garbage that completely defeats any attempt at a coherent world building and feels completely unnatural and videogame-y
Good, it's a videogame.
>..........what?
Have you forgotten the "now Pokemon up to level 30 will obey you"?
>You sure showed me, anon.
It's Pokemon, it's a JRPG, it's not precisely a complex franchise.
>Yeah, about the bad guys awakening the legendary again.
Damn that's crazy, you live in a world where super strong creatures exist and multiple different groups of people are trying to get their hands on them for their own benefits. Such an unrealistic scenario!
>Good, it's a videogame
It shouldn't feel like one, old pokemon games did a great job at having a somewhat believable ecosystem.
>Have you forgotten the "now Pokemon up to level 30 will obey you"?
It literally only applies to trade mons.
>It's Pokemon, it's a JRPG, it's not precisely a complex franchise
But it's a franchise that is fundamentally incompatible with the open world formula.
>Damn that's crazy, you live in a world where super strong creatures exist and multiple different groups of people are trying to get their hands on them for their own benefits. Such an unrealistic scenario!
No, just one that's been repeated over and over again to the point it's almost a joke.
It's obvious Game Freak has nothing interesting to tell.
>old pokemon games did a great job at having a somewhat believable ecosystem
What the hell am I reading,
>It literally only applies to trade mons.
Not in SV, it's one of the few sensible things it did.
>But it's a franchise that is fundamentally incompatible with the open world formula.
How?
>No, just one that's been repeated over and over again
In a different way
>What the hell am I reading
The truth
>Not in SV
Nobody cares about fanficshit, and it doesn't solve the problem of mons too strong being available too soon
>How?
I just explained how
You say that as if Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom didn't have dungeons.
TOTK’s “”dungeons”” are ridiculously shit and may as well not exist
The Fire Temple is better than every OoT dungeon
>the games are now fully open and you have the mount that can jump everywhere.
here's a thought:
make them closed
and take away the mount
yes that’s called Area Zero
>take 5 steps before fighting another fricking zubat or buy 100 repels and spam them
no. you’d change your tune if you saw a dungeon but every tile is a grass tile
The best Hoenn routes are like 90% encounter tiles, and the only bad Hoenn routes are the water ones because they're mostly backloaded and a little hard to navigate on the GBA's screen (and the limited encounter variety, even compared to your average cave in Pokemon). Also, dungeons don't really need encounters. Silph Co.'s level design is solid but is brought down by the samey trainer encounters, for example. The Trick House is also mostly puzzle and is fairly fun to play through, although the design ethos overall is a bit different it's still neat. And the Battle Pyramid is an incredibly novel type of battle facility that we really don't see much of and is essentially a Mystery Dungeon in all but franchise. When the best alternatives are the Trainer Hill/Tower and White Treehollow/Black Tower and both of them are kind of mediocre in comparison but are still more engaging in map design than some of the shit in modern Pokemon games there's definitely a problem.
No because Pokèmon never had actually good dungeons.
>Pokèmon never had actually good dung-ACK!
>Pic unrelated
?
>What if this place had levitating rocks!
>Cool idea, what do they do?
>Uh
Wrong
Pic unrelated
Gay autist
>Lots of trainers
>Unique gimmick puzzle
>Confusing to navigate
>Story relevant
>Rival battle
>Boss Battle
>Rare Gift mon
>One-of-a-kind, useful item as a reward
The only thing this dungeon is missing is a legendary, and apparently it was originally going to be where you battled mewtwo, so it would've had it all.
Dungeons are kino. Optional dungeons for legendaries especially.
yeah. dungeon crawling was a core part of the pokemon formula for me. I'm not gonna pretend they weren't flawed, I mean yeah fighting endless zubats was annoying. but that doesn't mean you should remove them entirely. that's the problem with modern GF philosophy, instead of trying to improve and modernize something it's easier to just axe it altogether. but yeah, dungeons are an important element of the overworld in any rpg. removing them was one of the things that made me stop buying the games.
random encounters are outdated rpg mechanics. modern dungeons are just overworld encounters except inside an enclosed space
okay fine, dungeons don't necessarily need random encounters. like
said, there were plenty of dungeons in this series without them, namely all the evil team bases. you could just fill them with over world style encounters and trainer fights instead. random encounters isn't what I miss about dungeons, it's the feeling of progressing through the floors, maybe solving puzzles and getting a nice reward at the end. you can't replicate the same type of design in the open world. even most acclaimed open world games have dungeon sections, like elder scrolls or fallout.
Hell, the dungeon doesn't even need to be linear necessarily. BotW's only fun "dungeon" is Hyrule Castle because you can actually use the tools the game provides you to progress in a number of interesting ways. On the other hand, something like Area Zero from SV is probably close enough to a dungeon and it the most well liked part of that game.
People really just want to have a complex area that's interesting to navigate and serves as some sort of gauntlet that requires a modicum of resource management.
That's all that dungeons really are, mechanically speaking.
>""""""resource management""""""
Yeah, Gen 5 killed a lot of pokemon's exploration aspects. What's your point?
>Unova did it once, this means Pokemon has ALWAYS, FROM THE BEGINNING, had something that completely negates the concept from ALL of its areas!
hi yawngay
lets hear it for the real mvp: Sliding on Ice Puzzle
You can tell XY has the worst map design because their single ice puzzle area is broken by walking diagonally. At least BW has two mandatory ones and only one of them is broken because of a glitch.
>ice puzzle area is broken by walking diagonally
That was the intentional and the only way to solve one of the puzzles. I can't believe you are this dumb.
Candice's gym is also broken by walking diagonal in BDSP. Can skip the entire puzzle.
dungeons or shitty random encounter hallway walking simulators with no gameplay except going back to your bag to use a repel every 30 seconds?
Explain to me what is incorrect about
>their single ice puzzle area is broken by walking diagonally
when this video evidence exists
?feature=shared&t=7817
>you can speedrun through it so that means it's broken
wow you're right anon every ice puzzle ever is broken
The original Mt. Coronet was neat because it simulated the experience of scaling a large mountain and finding your path.
But this filtered children, so the games needed to simplify.
I didn't know large mountains had random paintings and npcs blocking me
I liked trainer-centered dungeons like evil team bases. I did not like caves or other wild-encounter-laden dungeons.
SOVL
I liked the dungeons about taking down enemy teams and solving teleportation puzzles, not the ones that just made you fill your team with HM slaves.
Yes I do.
Why is it that it's always the vile degens that are good at drawing I swear to god
I miss them when they were more creative and unique like the Kanto dungeons
But when they're all just basic caves it's boring
The Ice Path in Johto was kino
this
gen 1, 3, and 6 generally had good dungeons
gen 4’s are all terrible, gen 5’s are slightly less bad than gen 4’s but still generally too generic or simplistic, and gen 2’s were also kind of shit except for the Ice Path which was fantastic.
Damn, first based take in this thread. Bonus points to gen 3 because its longer routes on the overworld were worth being compared to dungeons for how twisting and crazy they could get, most made for better endurance tests than dungeons from gen 4 and up did.
I miss the battle pyramid so much bros
I don't like exploring optional dungeons but I liked the dungeons that were mandatory for the story of gens 3 and 4
Only good dungeons were in Rangers.