Does D&D make people moronic or are people already moronic and therefore are attracted to D&D?
Does D&D make people retarded or are people already retarded and therefore are attracted to D&D?
Does D&D make people moronic or are people already moronic and therefore are attracted to D&D?
Neither. It's a good casual system and even for seasoned ttrpg players a solid choice to run a campaign or adventure with now and then.
Try a little less hard to fit in and use your time to organize an actual game instead, OP.
It can be either or neither. Sometimes people are moronic and attracted to D&D for the wrong reasons, and sometimes people simply don't learn anything about the TTRPG experience and how to improve it from playing D&D.
Giving up on understanding and settling for just playing D&D would be trying harder to fit in, moron.
Pictured above, copium homosexuals that cant even read base rulebooks that are more than 40 pages.
D&D is so ubiquitous to the hobby that it defines it for many people. As a result it is the primary teacher of how things are done.
Unfortunately, it reaches a lot of bad habits due to a combination of sacred cows and systems that were designed for gameplay styles that are no longer supported, so instead of teaching a style of game it teaches "all games should be like this", causing people to become moronic in learning other games.
The greatest problem of fifth edition can be attributed to the misalignment of procedures and rules with the actual dynamics of gameplay(Because of a lot of these sacred cows-explain why players even need adventuring gear when cantrips make them obselete). This incongruence often results in perplexing moments for players and Dungeon Masters alike.
In its initial stages, fifth edition presents itself as a relatively accessible game, offering a player-friendly experience. Even an amateur Dungeon Master can run certain adventures to create a reasonably enjoyable gameplay experience. However, as characters progress and level up, the game's complexity escalates significantly, with minimal guidance or support for the Dungeon Master. In fact, the most effective approach to addressing overly powerful characters is to engage in a prolonged attrition resource game, a stark contrast to the early levels, which are more scene-based in nature.
People are already moronic and attracted to things that are actually played.
5E is the big bang theory of STEM University degrees.
(Tv show)
I don't think it's a question of moronation, it's a question of commitment/giving a shit
D&D5e is the most popular game, so the people that don't fricking care about mechanics will use it and of course throw it out and look fricking moronic when they try to talk about it.
>Does D&D make people moronic or are people already moronic and therefore are attracted to D&D?
Yes.
D&D 5e isnt THAT bad. In fact it plays pretty well until the mid levels. The problem is the following
1. Most campaigns end very early. Before the problems in the game really start to show.
2. Because the early game is fairly simple (aka basically the only part people play), the game has a reputation of being "easy" or beginner friendly
3. Because of the above and the popularity of the name, it dominates the rpg space. If people actually delved into the higher level play more often, other systems would gain more popularity as people see D&Ds flaws.
Later level campaigns are fun because the DM is already a shell of his former self by then. Once you cast the wish spell you can see 10 years of life leave the DM through their ears. There's a reason nobody likes to run the damn thing.
If they're new to RPGs it can teach them some bad habits and steer them away from decent roleplaying in favor of just focusing on mechanics, which is especially worrisome given 5e's plethora of useless mechanic bloat. And it's been a lot of people's entry point into the hobby, many not going beyond it. It's a serviceable system but also flawed, and if players aren't aware of other systems, it can get them stuck
>it can teach them some bad habits and steer them away from decent roleplaying in favor of just focusing on mechanics
>"I'm playing a(n) [insert race] [insert class A nickname] X / [insert class B nickname] X multiclass with [insert feat], [insert feat], and [insert feat]."
I have been DMing 5e regularly for about 6 years. I used to think the system was heavily imbalanced in favor of casters...and it is if you are just running it naively with just bandits, dumb creatures, and simple scenarios. Powergaming homosexuals can seemingly break entire encounters and campaigns and make average players feel inferior.
However, the system does give you the tools to counteract this and run a balanced game without having to go the round of DM fiat. You just have to piece together a bunch of mechanics that are scattered throughout the PHB, Monster Manual, and DMG. It is a pretty good feeling though, to lower a smug powergamer trying to break the game to the level of an average player.
Any examples you can share?
Sure.
>Run one-shot set in a dense forest
>One guy playing Aaracokra Wizard
>Allow it because I don't ban anything
>I already know he's planning to use flying to trivialize encounters
>He says he wants to fly above the trees
>Dense foliage is heavy obscurement, so he can't see the rest of the party at all
>Doesn't matter as he's only flying up to protect himself
>Party gets ambushed by giant spiders and calls out for help
>Flying player blindly plunges into the canopy on his turn, so he can blast some spiders
>...directly into a Web set up by the spiders
>Is immediately restrained as spiders bear down on him
Another one
>Running a campaign
>One player playing a Shepard Druid says he wants to summon Velociraptors
>Explain the RAI, which he hates, but allow it because I don't ban anything
>Spell is only moderately effective throughout the 3-10 campaign
>Sometimes Conjure Animals gets Counterspelled
>Sometimes the raptors are instantly killed by a Fireball or dragon's breath weapon
>Enemies target martials and casters equally, and intelligent enemies focus people holding concentration. So sometimes his concentration is broken or he is knocked unconscious
>Many times the raptors are gone before their turn even comes up in initiative
Another one
>High level one shot
>Player wants to abuse the Hexvoker Magic Missile interaction
>Tell him the Crawford tweet is unofficial since it never made it into a book or Sage Advice Compendium
>He is mad, but I allow it because I don't ban anything
>Most of one shot is trudging through the dark
>He is a human (no darkvision)
>Magic Missile requires you to be able to see the target
>Can't use the spell half the time since enemies are outside of his light range or are invisible
>Final boss has a Medusa-like gaze feature that can charm you if you look directly at it
>Player doesn't want to risk the saving throw so instead he runs away from the encounter
>He cast Magic Missile twice in the whole 4 hour session
Poor druid summonerbro, having a DM too pussy to say no to summoning but then doing everything in their power to instakill your summons constantly sucks
>Poor druid summonerbro, having a DM too pussy to say no to summoning
If I'm a player, I would rather have a DM that lets me use my favorite tactic but on hard mode rather than just banning it. Plus if you want to play in multiple games you end up with a bunch of cancerous houserules where X is banned at these tables but not at these tables and Y has been adjusted and works differently at these tables and Z is a completely different feature at this table. Play whatever your heart desires and I'll balance the environment around it.
>doing everything in their power to instakill your summons constantly sucks
I didn't really go out of my way. For the most part it just came down to targeting casters and martials equally, instead of letting them stand at the back row chucking spells like a 90s JRPG. Checking Clerics and Druids is easy since they don't have the defensive capabilities vs attacks that an armor dipped Wizard does. And Cerics never expect an enemy to grapple/shove them and shut off Dodge.
Armor dipped Wizards, Sorcerers and flyers are the main ones you have to go out of your way for as they have stuff that can just make a large chunk of the monster manuals ineffective. And to a lesser extent GWM/SS martials and Hexvokers because of damage output.
wants to abuse the Hexvoker Magic Missile interaction
>>Tell him the Crawford tweet is unofficial since it never made it into a book or Sage Advice Compendium
You dont need to argue Sage Advice. MM specifies in its own text each dart has its own target, meaning the spell effect never targets multiple targets even if the darts hit at the same time.
Not that it matters as even letting it be 1d4+12 by the time it becomes active isnt all that compared to sorcadin, pure bladesinger and other all rounders with a single high point and enemies can shield it easily as any arcane caster should have it and absorb on its list if int above 13.
>Not that it matters as even letting it be 1d4+12 by the time it becomes active isnt all that compared to sorcadin, pure bladesinger and other all rounders with a single high point
I don't know man. ~100 damage with 100% accuracy is pretty good. Sorcadins at least have to get in melee and crit before they can dish out that much damage. And so much can go wrong. With Hexvoker it just happens. as long as they can see you and are within 120ft, boom 80-100 damage.
>Enemies can shield it easily as any arcane caster should have it and absorb on its list if int above 13.
Yeah, but if you want to run literally anything that isn't an arcane caster it's a big problem.
There are a lot of other quiet examples, but they usually involve casters actually taking damage, flying not being able to instantly solve an encounter (or being a liability), or characters with super high AC still taking damage and getting downed.
And there are some classic tricks that you can use over and over.
>Putting enemies in melee with casters so they spend their turn Misty Stepping away instead of casting an actually impactful spell.
>Using enemies with the False Appearance trait against attention hogs who always want to go ahead of the party and be the center of attention
>Using lowly Bards, Druids, and Magma Mephits with Heat Metal against armor dipped casters
>Ensuring that each combat has at least one saving throw enemy to bypass super high ACs
When your encounters are constantly designed around meta concerns, there's a problem.
Most of it isnt meta problems tho.
Smart enemies are likely to focus the person doing jibber jabber and shooting out beams of force. All tricks the party is capable of were done by someone else at least a few times in the setting unless you explicitly make magic and crossbows developed in the last 1-3 years.
>You just have to piece together a bunch of mechanics that are scattered throughout the PHB, Monster Manual, and DMG
Yeah, that's why it teaches bad habits, because the average DM is going to be relying on average scenarios like bandits and dumb creatures, and the players are going to rely on pushing the buttons their class gives them to chop through those bandits.
The tools to run a balanced game being scattered throughout three different 200+ page books is certainly something I would consider a flaw, especially relative to much simpler systems which would serve as a better entry point that more directly provide the GM with the guidance and tools they need to succeed.
Oh yeah, It's definitely very bad that you have to run the game a certain way, piece together niche mechanics, and be aware of every cookie cutter netdeck strategy out there in order to run the game in a balanced manner.
IT WOULD BE NICE if you could run the game in a straightforward way and not have things break.
Really all they would have to do is slightly nerf some problem spells and it would be fine.
3e had the issue of people not having the brains on how to apply 2 different well laid out on their own rules together (and not recalculating when using multiple templates).
4e had the issue of shit math and terrible layout.
5e merged the terrible layout and people not merging related rules with basic logic which combined the 4e morons that in 5e made peasant railgun not realizing it is a 20/60 1d4 improvised attack as it is within the rules with 3e baby munckins arguing "i dont understand, the zombie doesnt have a feature that says it doesnt need to breathe" despite it being right there on the statistics just not in the base block making it in the wrong hands the worst of both worlds, despite the system being clean, till tashas decently fair as the bulk of high power combos are PHB content and well balanced even in high levels by DMG table even if not well supported by official adventure content barely going above 14.
morons go for the most popular thing. 5e is the most popular thing. And 5e is almost simple enough for morons to grasp, so they stick with it.
Both.
Both of these. DnD Brainrot is a real and observable condition however it also attracts the lowest common denominator
It's just the most popular. Pretty much all the top five RPGs are filled with an uneven ratio of morons. God, you have not experienced moronation until you've tried to play VtM or any WoD game with randoms. PBTA games also have their own fill of losers and cringey lesbians (the fat flavored kind).
Other RPGs beyond the top 5 have better players because they're more obscured meaning you actually have to LIKE and RESEARCH things to find them.
Also, D&D is moronic because of players. People who are only players are quite often the WORST type to game with. It can be fun at first, especially if they're your friends, but it does wear you thin. It's not even the forever GM of it all, though that's an aspect of it, it's just you really don't understand RPGs as a hobby, like really understand it, until you've run at least one game.
All the worst people I've ever played with have NEVER GMed and that's not a coincidence. 5E is partially toxic because there are too many players and none of them are willing to run a goddamn game meaning they're pretty much trash.
I agree. I encourage all of my players to try GMing. The game makes much more sense when the players feel compassion towards you.
This, it's my first time GMing soon and so far the guy who is usually the forever DM is the most invested, strangely both narratively and mechanically. Like he's not just the only who actively enjoys learning about the new system we're trying, but he helped expand the setting when I was spitballing for ideas and he even drew a map of the region when I was describing the geography of the surrounding area.
Just DM things
>Does D&D make people moronic or are people already moronic and therefore are attracted to D&D?
Mostly the former. D&D reduces people to drooling morons. They don't even want to visualize a room or explore it, they just want to "throw a perception check at it" and look at the DM when they roll a 32 because they are capable of finding RPGBot when it is the first frickin search result on google. They think they can go "stealth mode" and get a 22 Stealth check to sneak 350 feet across open ground through the desert to attack a camp. They think the existence of dragons means not only stretching realism but abandoning it entirely and allowing their fighter to throw a boulder just like muh animes, with the justification that "the wizard can do it" (because all classes should be capable of the same things and martialcucks have the same persecution complex that IRL minorities do). D&D players think that with a high enough Persuasion check they should be able to get the guard captain to suck their dick. They get pissy whenever they run into a problem they can't solve with a spell. They get pissy when they run into a monster that is too high-CR for them, even though in nu-D&D they can still easily beat it 90% of the time. They get pissy when they aren't allowed to play a freakshit race. They get pissy when they can't use modern slang while speaking in character. They don't even roleplay, they just talk about what their character is like (almost always some zero-fricks-given badass) instead of speaking in character more than once or twice a session. The thing is, they wouldn't be like this if they'd been introduced to B/X D&D instead of 5e. But then, a lot of them wouldn't have played then. So I suppose it's almost a 50/50 split, but nuD&D does cause brain damage and there's really no easy way to reverse it.
>in a 5e game with coworkers
>only one who has played a game other than 5e but play it since we mostly just get drunk and make dumb jokes + socialization
>every 5e issue comes up, drunk DM is visibly and audibly irritated by 5e issues, monsters get hyped up with 200+ hp and get killed before even landing one hit
>no roleplay really, just a vauge dungeon crawl that really isn't a dungeon crawl. no real purpose aside from killing things
>almost all traps are reduced to pass a saving throw or suffer a minor inconvenience so 90% of them just get dealt with and forgotten within 5 minutes
>we literally just skip encounters at times because it's a given we're going to kill anything below a cr of 6 with little hassle so why even waste time
Ironically enough I'm having fun in proportion to the amount of times I'm proven right over 5e being a fricking mess but it's lessened by the fact that most of us aren't sober.
>we literally just skip encounters at times because it's a given we're going to kill anything below a cr of 6 with little hassle so why even waste time
Yep. This is why OSR is taking over anyone who actually plays. the game is such a powerwank now it's not fun to anyone who ahs played more than one campaign.
That's not even my discord post moron. But it is true. Nice counterargument btw, 5e shill.
That was my experience with 5e as well
Thank you for further proving its morons being attracted to D&D and refusing to do basic rule, feature and statblock reading.
> Everybody should like exactly what I, a Discord Fail-gay, like.
Cool post
>blatant troll thread #25536373
Man, /tg/ really is dead.
It's really just that people almost always learn D&D first and get attached to the way D&D does things, and are remarkably unwilling to learn alternatives, partly out of laziness and partly because learning the system is a necessary chore to most players and not a goal unto itself.
Part of the D&D learning curve, which people insist totally doesn't exist, is being entirely at the mercy of whoever is teaching you, because the book is poorly formatted, written by morons who just copy-pasted older WotC D&D books written by other morons, expects that you already understand all this nerd shit, and that you will just keep playing and buying more books and consuming related media and internet discussions to grok enough of the game on your own.
By the time someone understands the issues with the action economy, the ridiculous power divide between some classes, how there's so few good feats and the few that are good are only good because the rest suck shit, the utter uselessness of the CR system, the 15 minute adventuring day, and all the rest of that shit, they're either too deeply entrenched in D&D to break free of it, because they are now the forever DM, or they want to travel back in time and strangle Mike Mearls in his crib.
No, actually most people are literally moronic. 5E is the moron capture. If we didn't have 5E, another game would take its place, probably pathfinder, as the moron filter. It has nothing to do with the game. Gamestores literally have 100s of books to pick from and some are 20 pages.
I don't think you really appreciate how moronic the average person is and how fricked the average player is in the head.
People think somehow a different game will fix this behavior, but it just won't. Think of all the absolute losers who like Skyrim and treat that as the best videogame ever. They LOVE marvel movies. That is the majority of players out there. That's the majority of people who get caught in 5E. You don't fix these people by exposing them to better shit. They simply won't eat it. It doesn't matter.
It happened to D&D because D&D is "D&D©™" and the brand recognition and it being the only fricking RPG to ever get mainstream recognition and become a sort of pop culture meme that most people are vaguely aware of these days.
>the 15 minute adventuring day,
This is and always has been a DM problem. If your players can afford to stop that often for that long then you have a pacing issue with your game. Your players should always have a time constraint.
> Does D&D make people moronic or are people already moronic and therefore are attracted to D&D?
>my npc devil shows up to greet the players
>chaotic moron player starts combat for no reason
>whine like a piss baby he couldnt do his moronic cheese grapple build as the devil ragdolls him
Was I in the wrong for making an npc stronger than him?
Not if you did it by the rules. However, if you just declared that the devil ragdolled him without rolls it feels like bullshit. People should always get a fair chance to execute their stupid ideas. Unless it is campaign-ruining; then you politely but firmly tell them that it doesn't happen and ask them to do something else.
It's the biggest, and therefore it has the most morons. Not even necessarily by percentage (though probably that as well), but by sheer volume. You run into far more morons who play D&D than any other system because there are, in some cases, more morons playing D&D than there are players at all of some other systems.
I didn't wanna make a thread for it, but is it really that common that players aren't considerate of each other? Cancelling sessions just because, disregarding and trying to argue with the DM about really stupid stuff, acting le random because of being chaotic and so on. /tg/ always brings these up, I got invited my by a uni group to play with them and they are normalgays down to "nerdy" normalgays and there hasn't been any trouble, so I was wondering about it.
University is different because it's high school part 2 and everyone is still on mostly rigid schedules, meaning they can reliably put time aside between classes, and also don't have much else to do.
It happens more in online games where there aren't consequences for being rude. Most rudeness that happens IRL is pretty foreseeable. I've only ever run into it a couple of times, and the people were gross sweaty trashy neckbeards both times. Most players are just fine, though annoying players can be common, particularly if you play with women. Women cannot
>pay attention
>know the rules
>not be the focus of a scene
Some can do one or two, but only trannies can do all three. Don't play with women, anon
So how do you treat Magic Missile concerning +damage on hit roll and concentration checks?
It does cause genuine brain-damage, and unfortunately it's seen by newbies as "entry venue" into the hobby, so 3 out of 4 new players end up scarred for life as a result and it takes then extensive, dedicated effort (which rarely pays off) to de-program them.