>all endings are the same >no replayability >one viable build >linear progression >no characters or story >no central theme >TDE contradicts any theme the game would have >shitty compressed soundtrack >dungeons are a chore >fricked up random encounter rate >"muh atmosphere"
>>all endings are the same
True-ish >>no replayability
Very true >>one viable build
Nah mag is actually just as busted as phys
progression
Very true >>no characters or story
Yes and no, the story exists it just sucks ass >>no central theme
Eh >>TDE contradicts any theme the game would have
True
compressed soundtrack
True and it's hilarious they didn't fix it in the remaster but honestly the soundtrack isn't that great in the first place compared to the other smt games
are a chore
10000% true
up random encounter rate
Worst part of the game >>"muh atmosphere"
The atmosphere is really great your first time around but it really fails to carry they game on repeat plauthroughs
Not him but it's really not
In my opinion nocturne is the absolute worst 3d smt game, but in fairness it was also the first one so everything after benefited from learning from its numerous mistakes
Shit story, non existent characters, half of the "plot" happens off screen and someone just tells you about it, slow as mollases combat, estoma doesn't work correctly so you need to suffer through 18 identical random encounters to walk 6 feet, dungeon "puzzles" are embarrassingly basic and only exist to pad out the playtime, dungeons made far larger than they needed to be by just copy pasting identical halkways, weak demon roster, random skill inheritance, bug eating skill gaining system is cool idea but usually just results in switching them to level up and gain a skill then switching right back to something with good resistance, protag gets too powerful bordering on invincible past the halfway mark in the game and demons get relegated to support staff while you deal damage
games only saving grace is the excellent boss fights, but it's an unfun boring slog for the 98% of the game where you aren't in a boss fight
I legitimately don't get how consistently it gets on top 10 best games of all time lists. It's like people played a different game to the one I did. Shit is baffling.
yes, absolutely. shit's boring as all frick. how many times are they going to do the "woah, we were in Tokyo all along!" plot twist? plus, almost nothing happened plot wise, the endings suck and traveling through Tokyo is a pain in the ass. that said I liked the atmosphere and OST.
it deserves some hate, I wish they went with the full kaneko draft instead of the gimped version but the game is really good. Blasted and Infernal tokyo were my favourite parts
Kaneko made close to a whole book of content starting at the time the firmament gets shaped. Parts of it are released and they're translated here
https://dijehtranslations.wordpress.com/2018/11/03/smt-iv-draft-scenario/
What hate?
By comparison nocturne is at a 81 and 6.4 user and the remaster is at a 76 and 5 user btw
V is at an 8.5 and 7.5 respectively
Smt iv hate is almost exclusively the same 6 screeching homosexuals who don't like any smt other than nocturne and are not at all representative of the general concensus . Same thing with V "hate"
All of the old SMT games were review bombed by some schizo, so the user reviews aren't worth paying attention too. I'd imagine the guy didn't touch the latest entries though.
This
Never forget that Ganker collectively voted SMT V as their favorite game of 2021, the screeching morons are in the vast minority (though this post will probably make them seethe)
One of the best jrpgs ever, the best 3ds rpg, THE greatest vidya ost imo
If they updated the game with the affinity and smirk changes smtiva made it would be in the running for greatest game ever
One of the best jrpgs ever, the best 3ds rpg, THE greatest vidya ost imo
If they updated the game with the affinity and smirk changes smtiva made it would be in the running for greatest game ever
?si=dRXsuGGUoCLBPqi2
I hope Kozuka sticks around a good while yet
Yeah, even years later I find myself humming it. That said, Gin's route is the only logical route where all the charaters don't take sudden detours in their personality growths over the 7 days. Even Yuzu's day 8 ending feels like a taked on generic shonen ending.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Yuzu's route
yoohoo is such a stupid bawd >Gubment tells you if you leave Lockdown, world will end >Devils and Bel's tell you if you leave lock down, world will end >Angels tells you if you leave lockdown, world will end >Shomonkai tell you if you leave lockdown, world will end >Leaves lockdown >world ends
FRICKIN WOWZERS WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED
5x5 thread?
+SMTIV, Minecraft, MM, KF4, GGXRD
~SH2, hope they fix this game in the remake
-nier, nier automata, ff6, p3, mgs3, halo, chrono trigger, ff8, sotn, fft, ace combat, witcher, shadow of the colossus
>sh2
For a second I thought you were talking about soul hackers 2 and not silent Hill
Was gonna say, I don't think there's any fixing soul hackers 2 lol
>THE greatest vidya ost imo
Umineko mogs every soundtrack in existence due to sheer length, variety, and quality, but this one is a close second I guess
>the hate
Where? SMT IV received fairly high praise. I think it's an overall pretty enjoyable game, although I will not forgive Atlus for reusing most of their sprites from Strange Journey. Not that the sprites were bad, but they could have easily rendered all of the battles in 3d but decided not to because it would be much less work to reuse their assets.
I liked it because it was really cool how you're actually IN THE SKY when you thought you were on the ground
my only complaint was being stuck on beezlebub
I had to grind like 15 levels and my team completely changed by the time I tried again
IV:A is a complete repudiation of everything in IV, good and bad. There's no other direct sequel like it in that way.
It's physically impossible to like both games.
>It's physically impossible to like both games
I love iv and *like* iva
But smtiva feels more like an smtxpersona crossover game than a straight smt game
Say whatever you want about IV:A and it's persona-like supporting characters but the gameplay is objectively superior, the story isn't full of holes like IV is and the main endings are both satisfying without pulling the "true ending" card.
Hate? Absolutely not. It's still a great game. But IMO, it's the worst mainline game. What I do genuinely hate is how demons all fit the same 5-6 archetypes and every demon of that type has exactly the same stats at the same level. It feels so lazy. The guest artist design for demons also sucks dick. But it has really nice atmosphere.
The nocturne tryhard attitude has diminished quite a bit since the remaster came out and nocturne fans actually played it for the first time and realized it's kinda shit
It's not that SMT IV is easy. It's not balanced at all. The game was very clearly rushed, demons are not stated properly and just copy pasted, enemy and boss HP and skills don't match at all what point in the game you are, no enemy AI, Smirk making a character invincible, etc. Even outside the gameplay, IV famously cut half the original script of the game. You can see all of this being fixed for apocalypse.
I think the story works perfectly fine in smt iv, it is probably the second most "complete" feeling story after strange journey >not really counting 1 and 2 here as I'm not super confident about the translations I played
It doesn't feel anything like the bare bones disaster that was pre-maniax nocturne (not that the maniax really fixed it) or the current state of v.
I would never have known that the script was cut down from a much larger draft if I hadn't read it here.
You really don't need apocalypse to make the story feel complete. In some ways I feel it's the opposite, and apoc kinda invalidates the non neutral endings by giving a definitive cannon ending
And I think the objective gameplay improvements were from a combination of more dev time+feedback on what worked and what didn't in iv, which did ultimately lead to what I still consider to be the best combat in any smt game ever. Unfortunately without base iv in not sure they would have arrived at that finely tuned system through just playtesters+time
Anon, characters are constantly introduced and dropped entirely from the plot. Most egregiously is Lilith who is made out to be a major big bad and dies offscreen half the time or as a crappy boss fight with no real plan on the other or the previous generation characters. Aliens are introduced as the mastermind behind everything and builders of the Yamato reactor, the aliens are just recolor of existing character portraits then you kill them and the story goes right back to Law vs chaos. It has the absolute worst and most out of character version of Lucifer and Masakados is a DLC only despite being the entire point of the story. And let's not talk about the neutral ending where you randomly revive the goddess Tokyo who has no context whatsoever in game. No the game doesn't feel complete at all.
It wasn't really cut down. They just took some base ideas from the draft, consulted Kaneko to figure out how the imagined them and created a whole different story with those.
You rarely hear people talking about the gameplay of smt in general because it's all fairly similar
You can talk about the small discrepancies, i.e. Nocturne being slow as frick easy and boring, iv smirk being busted and battles being too fast/boss health pools too small, v dampeners and magatsuchi being stupidly op, but beyond that there's not too many different ways to say press turn is good
You don't see people talking about how great pressing x to punch through 40 random encounters in nocturne is either or juking around enemies in v before realizing you are underleved for the boss and level scaling exists for some reason now
It's not that interesting, and it's been talked about to death in regards to every smt game except maybe sj as I hear very differing opinions on its alignment follow up shennanigans
No, I see people talk about gameplay mechanics in every single SMT thread. It's only IV threads where it's all memes and nobody wants to talk about gameplay.
The world design is great though. It took everything IV was trying to do with environmental movement and made it all seemless. Has probably the best verticallity of any turn based RPG ever made.
Story is subjective but I enjoyed it. I prefer a more subdued and cryptic megaten like V and Nocturne than when it gets overly preachy anyway.
The thing I hate about Nocturne but especially V is how they miss the cyberpunk aesthetic that should be at the heart of megaten. It's like getting half a meal. V isn't even cryptic with how in your face its biblical imagery is but at the same time how tiringly basic and trite both the plot and its resolution ultimately are. There are some neat things in there but it's too mythological for its own good while failing to recognize what makes mythology actually fun.
A megaten world without humans using and abusing or being abused and manipulated by demons or all the cosmological and pseudoscientific talk about what that implies is kind of like waiting an hour just to get half cooked lukewarm fried chicken goddamn I hate KFC so fricking much
If you know the dev cycle of IV close to 2 years of it was the devs doing settings and designs and coordinating with each other what exactly they want from the other. That's not specific to IV as nocturne was in consideration and scnario drafting phase since 1994.
Some key people who made IV left the dev team for unexplained reasons in V and COVID obviously also messed up the communication between teams. Also it's not like they spare generous funding for mainline. Sega by all means didn't expect it to perform well. The studio which makes it (R&D1) is the oldest and least funded studio in atlus.
The people who think SMT IV are bad are the same 40+ year old morons that think Persona 3 and SMT III are the best atlus games because they played them dubbed when they were 15. SMT IV is better than most Personas and most SMT games and when it gets its high budget remake 10 years from now all you contrarians will be there like ooooh SMT IV and SMT IV:A so many memorable characters and moments! >TLDR; frick you SMT IV is amazing
Oscar and André get executed during the French revolution after confessing their feelings for each other by the way! Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette get beheaded!
There are three types of SMTgays >I play games for story so my favorites are 1/SJ/4 >i play games for gameplay so my favorites are 3/4A/5 >I am a contrarian so my favorites are 2/MT1/NINE
>Dark story that explores the themes of morality, ideology, and conflict via varied rules of different communities that actually feel fleshed out and have charismatic leaders that all play actual roles in the plot >Actual characters with personalities, chemistry, and fun banter >Incredibly unique and creative setting that combines Medival Europe with Modern Japan >Finally a good exploration and locations filled with actually interesting NPCs, Quest givers with their own storylines, and shop keepers that make the setting way more alive >Amazing soundtrack that combines folk music with elements of rock and techno >Beautiful art style and 2D sprite visuals for a variety of demons and mature and distinctive character designs >A great combat system that evolves the mechanics of the series further via elements of weakness, strength, and negotiations taken to the next level with more variety of options
It's literally the best game in the series. It's the only game that actually tried to move the franchise forward in many ways via more experimentation. The only big flaw of the game is the moral points system that makes you run around like a moron monkey to the night clubs all the time and discourages you from 100% the game if you want to get the natural ending with the best girl and make her happy
>different communities that actually feel fleshed out and have charismatic leaders that all play actual roles in the plot
I think it was a bit unbalanced, for most of the game once you reach Tokyo Mikado is basically forgotten about, the characters like the samurai commander feel really underused and Navarre in particular feels like he was supposed to be way more important and got all his content cut halfway through production or something.
Yeah. It feels like putting the game on the 3DS forced them a cut a lot of content due to tech limitations at the time. What's extremely annoying is that Atlus wanted to make a big updated version of SMT4 but they decided to turn it into a sequel game instead because their producers always have such genius ideas
It's a matter of preference
Smt iv combat is fast as frick, it's a knife fight in an alley and you wipe or get wiped in 30s
On the opposite end you have the plodding slow war of attrition pace of nocturnes combat, where the fights go on just a little too long to be fun and danger is at an absolute minimum (minus mudo/hama moronation)
I think V strikes a really good balance between the two, so does iva although that's still pretty fast
NTA but I think V is better. More balance between different build styles, better support skills, ailment builds that work on all bosses, pierce weaker than pure damage skills, overall better SP economy that uses the Affinity system better, non party wide karns, more boss fights with groups of enemies working together
Absolutely
I also find that it has the best difficulty curve of any smt game, for as much as iv gets memed about falling off a cliff difficulty-wise nocturne does the exact same thing and the last 60% of the game is a complete cake walk
Smt 1 and 2 both have glitched exploitable combat, soul hackers is easy in general, dds is braindead easy, and tbh has an erratic pulse beat of difficulty all over the spectrum. Sj will randomly spike in difficulty after being a flat line for 30 hours
But apoc is pretty much prefect with difficulty and balance, the multi boss fights are genuinely challenging and I beat the final boss with the entire samurai squad dead, nanashi on 6 hp, and on demon alive out of my entire stock
It's fair, challenging, and keeps pace with the players capabilities
>1: Nice >2: Uggo edgy child >3: Annoying kid but overall nice >4: Secretly a flesh eating demon that hates you >5: Trying to do the right thing, dork, overall nice >6: Secretly Lucifer, probably hates you, is definitely using you >7: Was a man, doesn't frick >8: Might frick you after a ryona session >9: Only exists on your iphone, doesn't frick
Either 1 or 5, im going with 5
I think a lot of people who hate IV remember the broad strokes of it and not the details and that game is all about the details. That's why replaying it is very rewarding and fun.
Imo yes. I connected more with it as I played the game more and that's literally what makes vidya music good. If you development feelings and meanings around the music and it means something more or different as you play the game then it's doing its job very well.
If the game was all sprites like SJ it would have been great. Really hope if they do a remaster or something they give you the option to see artwork or spritework. Cause all demons already have sprites even if they're fusion only/not something you can fight.
Which Shin Megami Tensei mainline title carries the torch of moronic fanbase that says "SMT was never about story"? SMT1 and SMT2 set up their stories proudly, SMT3 has brevity but clearly defined alignments and a backstory to the lost souls and clay people. We Westerners got the international version of SMT3 which had the Amala Network dungoen and extra content, so it's fair that OG SMT3 was barebones but we never played that one ever.
Personally I like 5 for its gameplay, 3 for its atmosphere, and 4 is my favorite all-rounded package. If we count SMT Strange Journey that would be the pinnacle. There's a curious internet rumor in Western communities about SMT Strange Journey being the original SMT4, that wasn't true at all and the Tokyo rule was made up. SMT4's angels weren't biblical accurate either. Tons of Ganker/Reddit rumors about SMT debunked here https://eirikrjs.blogspot.com/2021/11/smtfanmyths2.html. Finally SMT4's guest artist literally owns the rights to the SMT4 Archangels designs which is why ATLUS never reused them, they only appeared as silhouettes in SMT4 Apocalypse.
Anyhow there are not enough Persona 3 evokers to deal with the Persona 5 """fan""" population we have right now. I fricking hate Persona 5 western fanbase far more than P4 and that Teddie homosexual dragged it down hard.
Yeah it was really, really shitty.
nocturne fan
yeah, it's a better game.
>all endings are the same
>no replayability
>one viable build
>linear progression
>no characters or story
>no central theme
>TDE contradicts any theme the game would have
>shitty compressed soundtrack
>dungeons are a chore
>fricked up random encounter rate
>"muh atmosphere"
Half the shit you listed is an outright lie. Especially the no central theme thing.
i played the game, anon.
>>all endings are the same
True-ish
>>no replayability
Very true
>>one viable build
Nah mag is actually just as busted as phys
progression
Very true
>>no characters or story
Yes and no, the story exists it just sucks ass
>>no central theme
Eh
>>TDE contradicts any theme the game would have
True
compressed soundtrack
True and it's hilarious they didn't fix it in the remaster but honestly the soundtrack isn't that great in the first place compared to the other smt games
are a chore
10000% true
up random encounter rate
Worst part of the game
>>"muh atmosphere"
The atmosphere is really great your first time around but it really fails to carry they game on repeat plauthroughs
>"muh atmosphere"
Yes
frick I thought you were talking about IV until you mentioned TDE
>all endings are the same
>one viable build
>no characters or story
>fricked up random encounter rate
Welcome to SMT I guess.
Not him but it's really not
In my opinion nocturne is the absolute worst 3d smt game, but in fairness it was also the first one so everything after benefited from learning from its numerous mistakes
Shit story, non existent characters, half of the "plot" happens off screen and someone just tells you about it, slow as mollases combat, estoma doesn't work correctly so you need to suffer through 18 identical random encounters to walk 6 feet, dungeon "puzzles" are embarrassingly basic and only exist to pad out the playtime, dungeons made far larger than they needed to be by just copy pasting identical halkways, weak demon roster, random skill inheritance, bug eating skill gaining system is cool idea but usually just results in switching them to level up and gain a skill then switching right back to something with good resistance, protag gets too powerful bordering on invincible past the halfway mark in the game and demons get relegated to support staff while you deal damage
games only saving grace is the excellent boss fights, but it's an unfun boring slog for the 98% of the game where you aren't in a boss fight
I legitimately don't get how consistently it gets on top 10 best games of all time lists. It's like people played a different game to the one I did. Shit is baffling.
yes, absolutely. shit's boring as all frick. how many times are they going to do the "woah, we were in Tokyo all along!" plot twist? plus, almost nothing happened plot wise, the endings suck and traveling through Tokyo is a pain in the ass. that said I liked the atmosphere and OST.
Nah its one of the best games in the series. It's definitely better than nocturne and the snes games
agreed
homie, it ain't even better than Strange Journey.
Is anything?
The SJ map complexity is vastly overhyped, nothing in SJ is as bad as any 6th stratum in EO.
Strange Journey is like the best SMT game so duh.
weird way of spelling Devil Survivor
You can't give that many points to teenage breasts to push it about Strange Journey
Strange Journey was fantastic, but Devil Survivor is THE perfect SMT game
It doesn't have enough hallways.
This nocturne is trash and the snes are now dated
smt 1 remake now
it deserves some hate, I wish they went with the full kaneko draft instead of the gimped version but the game is really good. Blasted and Infernal tokyo were my favourite parts
>Kaneko draft
Tell me more
Kaneko made close to a whole book of content starting at the time the firmament gets shaped. Parts of it are released and they're translated here
https://dijehtranslations.wordpress.com/2018/11/03/smt-iv-draft-scenario/
wtf wow, thank you for the link
What hate?
By comparison nocturne is at a 81 and 6.4 user and the remaster is at a 76 and 5 user btw
V is at an 8.5 and 7.5 respectively
Smt iv hate is almost exclusively the same 6 screeching homosexuals who don't like any smt other than nocturne and are not at all representative of the general concensus . Same thing with V "hate"
All of the old SMT games were review bombed by some schizo, so the user reviews aren't worth paying attention too. I'd imagine the guy didn't touch the latest entries though.
This
Never forget that Ganker collectively voted SMT V as their favorite game of 2021, the screeching morons are in the vast minority (though this post will probably make them seethe)
Looking at those other games it was a really weak year.
Maybe because no fricking notable games came out in 2021 you moron
thanks for proving my point
Where is the 2023 one?
I'd say neo twewy was more deserving, but it's easily number 2 of that year for me.
Also Jack's game should have been number 2 in 2022
Nioh 2 was robbed of 2020, american users should be banned from voting
agi
The hate? It's the greatest JRPG of all time though
Jonathan best boy.
>law cuck
No
It's one of the best videogames of all time
the new demon designs are a massive step down in every respect
One of the best jrpgs ever, the best 3ds rpg, THE greatest vidya ost imo
If they updated the game with the affinity and smirk changes smtiva made it would be in the running for greatest game ever
?si=dRXsuGGUoCLBPqi2
I hope Kozuka sticks around a good while yet
Make way for the most slept on tune
?si=46WSnnbrUV3Mo6eH
HOLY DANCE
The music: https://youtu.be/b-9GDsbBsL0
the real best video game track of all time
Yeah, even years later I find myself humming it. That said, Gin's route is the only logical route where all the charaters don't take sudden detours in their personality growths over the 7 days. Even Yuzu's day 8 ending feels like a taked on generic shonen ending.
>Yuzu's route
yoohoo is such a stupid bawd
>Gubment tells you if you leave Lockdown, world will end
>Devils and Bel's tell you if you leave lock down, world will end
>Angels tells you if you leave lockdown, world will end
>Shomonkai tell you if you leave lockdown, world will end
>Leaves lockdown
>world ends
FRICKIN WOWZERS WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED
wanted so much to like her too
I'm just about to finish Gin's path and that FRICKING OLD MAN ON A GATOR IN THE FREE BATTLE BEATS MY ASS AND I CAN'T GET PHYS REPEL AAAAAAAAA
it is the best post-PSX OST for sure
5x5 thread?
+SMTIV, Minecraft, MM, KF4, GGXRD
~SH2, hope they fix this game in the remake
-nier, nier automata, ff6, p3, mgs3, halo, chrono trigger, ff8, sotn, fft, ace combat, witcher, shadow of the colossus
>5x5 thread?
nah it's just what I believe to be the best vidya OSTs of all time, some of those games I think are complete ass
forgot about nocturne
~it's mid
>sh2
For a second I thought you were talking about soul hackers 2 and not silent Hill
Was gonna say, I don't think there's any fixing soul hackers 2 lol
yeah that fricks me up too ngl
V is better than Nocturne, update your picture.
did you really think they were in order or something
>THE greatest vidya ost imo
Umineko mogs every soundtrack in existence due to sheer length, variety, and quality, but this one is a close second I guess
>the hate
Where? SMT IV received fairly high praise. I think it's an overall pretty enjoyable game, although I will not forgive Atlus for reusing most of their sprites from Strange Journey. Not that the sprites were bad, but they could have easily rendered all of the battles in 3d but decided not to because it would be much less work to reuse their assets.
No I like the sprites I just wish the animations were more detailed
I wish atlus would make another sprite based game again
Who hates SMT IV? V is the one that people hate. Anyway, the best Megaten is DDS.
The only people that hate V are the favela monkeys from /smtg/. They're just very vocal about it.
I liked it because it was really cool how you're actually IN THE SKY when you thought you were on the ground
my only complaint was being stuck on beezlebub
I had to grind like 15 levels and my team completely changed by the time I tried again
>It's good because [EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTED]
no it's just a cool story point
I liked it at the time but it gets mogged story wise by SJ and IV:A is a direct improvement over it's gameplay so I wouldn't want to play it again.
So what's the difference between IV and IV:A? I was thinking of playing this one next
IV:A is a direct sequel following some dude
I gotta play it too, but my 2DS broke
It's probably my favorite.
IV:A is a complete repudiation of everything in IV, good and bad. There's no other direct sequel like it in that way.
It's physically impossible to like both games.
>It's physically impossible to like both games
I love iv and *like* iva
But smtiva feels more like an smtxpersona crossover game than a straight smt game
Say whatever you want about IV:A and it's persona-like supporting characters but the gameplay is objectively superior, the story isn't full of holes like IV is and the main endings are both satisfying without pulling the "true ending" card.
Apocalypse is a continuation of the Neutral ending from IV.
Tokunny
Hate? Absolutely not. It's still a great game. But IMO, it's the worst mainline game. What I do genuinely hate is how demons all fit the same 5-6 archetypes and every demon of that type has exactly the same stats at the same level. It feels so lazy. The guest artist design for demons also sucks dick. But it has really nice atmosphere.
I don't see hate, I see everyone praising this and shitting on Nocturne now.
The nocturne tryhard attitude has diminished quite a bit since the remaster came out and nocturne fans actually played it for the first time and realized it's kinda shit
Nocturne is a fricking classic. Every Megaten game from the 2000s on owes everything to Nocturne.
>Le tryhard attitude
>Le edgy!!!!
Rope yourself.
SMT4 brought in the nintendo babies into the series who hate nocturne on principle.
what hate, only thing wrong is its pretty easy. atmosphere, music, and gameplay are all great
All smt games are pretty easy outside of optional superbosses
It's not that SMT IV is easy. It's not balanced at all. The game was very clearly rushed, demons are not stated properly and just copy pasted, enemy and boss HP and skills don't match at all what point in the game you are, no enemy AI, Smirk making a character invincible, etc. Even outside the gameplay, IV famously cut half the original script of the game. You can see all of this being fixed for apocalypse.
I think the story works perfectly fine in smt iv, it is probably the second most "complete" feeling story after strange journey
>not really counting 1 and 2 here as I'm not super confident about the translations I played
It doesn't feel anything like the bare bones disaster that was pre-maniax nocturne (not that the maniax really fixed it) or the current state of v.
I would never have known that the script was cut down from a much larger draft if I hadn't read it here.
You really don't need apocalypse to make the story feel complete. In some ways I feel it's the opposite, and apoc kinda invalidates the non neutral endings by giving a definitive cannon ending
And I think the objective gameplay improvements were from a combination of more dev time+feedback on what worked and what didn't in iv, which did ultimately lead to what I still consider to be the best combat in any smt game ever. Unfortunately without base iv in not sure they would have arrived at that finely tuned system through just playtesters+time
Anon, characters are constantly introduced and dropped entirely from the plot. Most egregiously is Lilith who is made out to be a major big bad and dies offscreen half the time or as a crappy boss fight with no real plan on the other or the previous generation characters. Aliens are introduced as the mastermind behind everything and builders of the Yamato reactor, the aliens are just recolor of existing character portraits then you kill them and the story goes right back to Law vs chaos. It has the absolute worst and most out of character version of Lucifer and Masakados is a DLC only despite being the entire point of the story. And let's not talk about the neutral ending where you randomly revive the goddess Tokyo who has no context whatsoever in game. No the game doesn't feel complete at all.
It wasn't really cut down. They just took some base ideas from the draft, consulted Kaneko to figure out how the imagined them and created a whole different story with those.
If anything it deserves more hate given how people talk about how great everything in this game is besides the gameplay, in SMT.
You rarely hear people talking about the gameplay of smt in general because it's all fairly similar
You can talk about the small discrepancies, i.e. Nocturne being slow as frick easy and boring, iv smirk being busted and battles being too fast/boss health pools too small, v dampeners and magatsuchi being stupidly op, but beyond that there's not too many different ways to say press turn is good
You don't see people talking about how great pressing x to punch through 40 random encounters in nocturne is either or juking around enemies in v before realizing you are underleved for the boss and level scaling exists for some reason now
It's not that interesting, and it's been talked about to death in regards to every smt game except maybe sj as I hear very differing opinions on its alignment follow up shennanigans
No, I see people talk about gameplay mechanics in every single SMT thread. It's only IV threads where it's all memes and nobody wants to talk about gameplay.
How did SMT 5 get everything right EXCEPT story and world design?
The world design is great though. It took everything IV was trying to do with environmental movement and made it all seemless. Has probably the best verticallity of any turn based RPG ever made.
Story is subjective but I enjoyed it. I prefer a more subdued and cryptic megaten like V and Nocturne than when it gets overly preachy anyway.
The thing I hate about Nocturne but especially V is how they miss the cyberpunk aesthetic that should be at the heart of megaten. It's like getting half a meal. V isn't even cryptic with how in your face its biblical imagery is but at the same time how tiringly basic and trite both the plot and its resolution ultimately are. There are some neat things in there but it's too mythological for its own good while failing to recognize what makes mythology actually fun.
A megaten world without humans using and abusing or being abused and manipulated by demons or all the cosmological and pseudoscientific talk about what that implies is kind of like waiting an hour just to get half cooked lukewarm fried chicken goddamn I hate KFC so fricking much
Works fine on my machine. I like the demons more than the humans.
Agree
I really wish that v had not gone after the nocturne aesthetic when it is easily the most boring one atlus has ever done
If you know the dev cycle of IV close to 2 years of it was the devs doing settings and designs and coordinating with each other what exactly they want from the other. That's not specific to IV as nocturne was in consideration and scnario drafting phase since 1994.
Some key people who made IV left the dev team for unexplained reasons in V and COVID obviously also messed up the communication between teams. Also it's not like they spare generous funding for mainline. Sega by all means didn't expect it to perform well. The studio which makes it (R&D1) is the oldest and least funded studio in atlus.
It's the second best SMT after II but being made for literal children really puts it down sometimes.
No but apocalypse does
The people who think SMT IV are bad are the same 40+ year old morons that think Persona 3 and SMT III are the best atlus games because they played them dubbed when they were 15. SMT IV is better than most Personas and most SMT games and when it gets its high budget remake 10 years from now all you contrarians will be there like ooooh SMT IV and SMT IV:A so many memorable characters and moments!
>TLDR; frick you SMT IV is amazing
i hate isabeau
>morons that think Persona 3 and SMT III are the best atlus games because they played them dubbed when they were 15.
Do you have an ounce of self awareness?
Case and point projecting homosexuals and unironic misogynist boomers think anyone gives a frick about what they think. We all know you got filtered.
no I just always pick the white ending or chaos because I'm not a homosexual
>Atlus
>Big budget remake of SMT
I really appreciated the laugh anon, sincerely.
Cute monkey!
the only critique i ever see is about lack of difficulty which is a fair critique to make.
the game is a success in most other facets though. no one would dispute that.
I fixed Isabeu's hairstyle
i fixed isabeau
that's not the way!
Oscar and André get executed during the French revolution after confessing their feelings for each other by the way! Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette get beheaded!
It has some serious flaws but it's still generally liked by most people. I'll assume this is just a bait shitposting thread.
>blast arrow
It deserves more hate.
>shitty story
>shitty characters
>shitty gameplay (LITERALLY broken)
This but Nocturne.
It's a shame they didn't fix anything in the remaster but they added skill inheritance at least. Still my favorite smt game btw.
There's a lot to criticize but damn if it wasn't a fun ride
There are three types of SMTgays
>I play games for story so my favorites are 1/SJ/4
>i play games for gameplay so my favorites are 3/4A/5
>I am a contrarian so my favorites are 2/MT1/NINE
tbf 2 is pretty good
My favorites are V, SJ and Nocturne tho (and Raidou 2)
I liked 1,3 and 4. I haven't played the other mainline games but I plan to play SMT2 this year.
>becomes ridiculously easy after minotaur
>has stats that are objectively better than others
it's shit
SHIT
hey I'd still Medusa is still somewhat challenging, in Tokyo is where it really gets bad
you can fuse a pig that will 1v1 medusa in auto combat
>fuse
didn't beat the game
Yes. Every bit of it.
>Dark story that explores the themes of morality, ideology, and conflict via varied rules of different communities that actually feel fleshed out and have charismatic leaders that all play actual roles in the plot
>Actual characters with personalities, chemistry, and fun banter
>Incredibly unique and creative setting that combines Medival Europe with Modern Japan
>Finally a good exploration and locations filled with actually interesting NPCs, Quest givers with their own storylines, and shop keepers that make the setting way more alive
>Amazing soundtrack that combines folk music with elements of rock and techno
>Beautiful art style and 2D sprite visuals for a variety of demons and mature and distinctive character designs
>A great combat system that evolves the mechanics of the series further via elements of weakness, strength, and negotiations taken to the next level with more variety of options
It's literally the best game in the series. It's the only game that actually tried to move the franchise forward in many ways via more experimentation. The only big flaw of the game is the moral points system that makes you run around like a moron monkey to the night clubs all the time and discourages you from 100% the game if you want to get the natural ending with the best girl and make her happy
>different communities that actually feel fleshed out and have charismatic leaders that all play actual roles in the plot
I think it was a bit unbalanced, for most of the game once you reach Tokyo Mikado is basically forgotten about, the characters like the samurai commander feel really underused and Navarre in particular feels like he was supposed to be way more important and got all his content cut halfway through production or something.
Yeah. It feels like putting the game on the 3DS forced them a cut a lot of content due to tech limitations at the time. What's extremely annoying is that Atlus wanted to make a big updated version of SMT4 but they decided to turn it into a sequel game instead because their producers always have such genius ideas
slit isabeau's throat and rape her dead corpse
wholesome winter afternoon cuddling with Isabeau by the fireplace, patting her on the head and smelling her vanilla scent
dun hate it just don't like anything about it.
Anyone saying that SMT4 had good combat is just straight up trolling.
no megaten game besides apocalypse and tbh has good combat
True
It's a matter of preference
Smt iv combat is fast as frick, it's a knife fight in an alley and you wipe or get wiped in 30s
On the opposite end you have the plodding slow war of attrition pace of nocturnes combat, where the fights go on just a little too long to be fun and danger is at an absolute minimum (minus mudo/hama moronation)
I think V strikes a really good balance between the two, so does iva although that's still pretty fast
Apocalypse is definitely peak MegaTen combat.
NTA but I think V is better. More balance between different build styles, better support skills, ailment builds that work on all bosses, pierce weaker than pure damage skills, overall better SP economy that uses the Affinity system better, non party wide karns, more boss fights with groups of enemies working together
Absolutely
I also find that it has the best difficulty curve of any smt game, for as much as iv gets memed about falling off a cliff difficulty-wise nocturne does the exact same thing and the last 60% of the game is a complete cake walk
Smt 1 and 2 both have glitched exploitable combat, soul hackers is easy in general, dds is braindead easy, and tbh has an erratic pulse beat of difficulty all over the spectrum. Sj will randomly spike in difficulty after being a flat line for 30 hours
But apoc is pretty much prefect with difficulty and balance, the multi boss fights are genuinely challenging and I beat the final boss with the entire samurai squad dead, nanashi on 6 hp, and on demon alive out of my entire stock
It's fair, challenging, and keeps pace with the players capabilities
It needed a re-release but we got Apocalypse instead
Choose
Hikaru.
Loving isabeau creampie sex
I'll take one for the team and go bananacakes on homeslice
Wholesome emotional date with Yuriko in her human body during the daytime. Freaky physically exhausting sex with her Lilith body during nighttime
Onahole assassin.
Hallelujah
My wife with the moronic haircut
>Isabeau
>Chie
>Fuuka
>Elizabeth
Why do all of the best SMT girls have dumb haircuts?
Post-brainwash correction Toki!
Goddess Toki. Also frick humanity.
>1: Nice
>2: Uggo edgy child
>3: Annoying kid but overall nice
>4: Secretly a flesh eating demon that hates you
>5: Trying to do the right thing, dork, overall nice
>6: Secretly Lucifer, probably hates you, is definitely using you
>7: Was a man, doesn't frick
>8: Might frick you after a ryona session
>9: Only exists on your iphone, doesn't frick
Either 1 or 5, im going with 5
>not finding Toki sexy and cute
It's better than nocturne but worst than strange journey and tbh
>good
Some good characters
I like Walter and he made me say Hoy
that's about it. I was kinda let down, though I haven't played Apocalypse
sex with hikaru
we got robbed of satanic digits, anon
What hate it's possibly the most well liked mainline
Is Kaneko dead?
He's still lost in that flower garden.
I think a lot of people who hate IV remember the broad strokes of it and not the details and that game is all about the details. That's why replaying it is very rewarding and fun.
I agree, I used to hate on the game too but now I appreciate it for what it is.
Is this the literal greatest vidya track of all time?
ill give you a challenge
Imo yes. I connected more with it as I played the game more and that's literally what makes vidya music good. If you development feelings and meanings around the music and it means something more or different as you play the game then it's doing its job very well.
IV's OST was great and comfy... didn't like a single track from Apocalypse though.
it's really frustrating how the demons are all just jpegs of varying quality and art styles, other than that it's pure ludo
If the game was all sprites like SJ it would have been great. Really hope if they do a remaster or something they give you the option to see artwork or spritework. Cause all demons already have sprites even if they're fusion only/not something you can fight.
Dagda was right.
Yes. I will never not be mad for the game forcing me into law/chaos ending because I was too neutral throughout the game
I got lost after I beat a boss in a park... like years ago... I will come back to it after I beat SMT V on Ryujinx.
Hoy
Which Shin Megami Tensei mainline title carries the torch of moronic fanbase that says "SMT was never about story"? SMT1 and SMT2 set up their stories proudly, SMT3 has brevity but clearly defined alignments and a backstory to the lost souls and clay people. We Westerners got the international version of SMT3 which had the Amala Network dungoen and extra content, so it's fair that OG SMT3 was barebones but we never played that one ever.
Personally I like 5 for its gameplay, 3 for its atmosphere, and 4 is my favorite all-rounded package. If we count SMT Strange Journey that would be the pinnacle. There's a curious internet rumor in Western communities about SMT Strange Journey being the original SMT4, that wasn't true at all and the Tokyo rule was made up. SMT4's angels weren't biblical accurate either. Tons of Ganker/Reddit rumors about SMT debunked here https://eirikrjs.blogspot.com/2021/11/smtfanmyths2.html. Finally SMT4's guest artist literally owns the rights to the SMT4 Archangels designs which is why ATLUS never reused them, they only appeared as silhouettes in SMT4 Apocalypse.
Anyhow there are not enough Persona 3 evokers to deal with the Persona 5 """fan""" population we have right now. I fricking hate Persona 5 western fanbase far more than P4 and that Teddie homosexual dragged it down hard.
IV is the reason I started not caring about the series
Wonder how would she have reacted if she was there when Nanashi betrayed his friends.
She is lucky I value her free Smirk so much.
Meant for
>Doi's designs are shi-