Why were the original Doom's maps so much better than Doom II's? People praise Doom II for having more monsters and a new weapon, but no one really talks about how dogshit the maps are in comparison. Was it really because Romero took a backseat for a majority of 2's mapping?
doom 2 was literally made of maps that were scrapped from doom 1 for being shit
That's bullshit but i believe it
Mostly different level designers. Sandy Peterson in particular had a VERY different approach to structuring maps compared to John Romero.
False. See above.
>but no one really talks about how dogshit the maps are in comparison
It gets brought up in literally every single Doom 2 discussion.
I only like Doom 2 more because it has super shotgun
suburbs is kino, fite me
Suburbs is good with freelook.
So you're saying that Doom II is essentially just a base for modders. I can get behind that sentiment. But purely base game, Doom kicks II out of the water.
>So you're saying that Doom II is essentially just a base for modders
yes
>People praise Doom II for having more wads
ftfy
Doom 2 came out the next year and even then it was rushed the last 5 months of development
Two main reasons
#1 John Romero did most of the maps in episode 1, which were also most of the best maps in Doom 1. He was too busy during the development of Doom 2 to contribute much to the levels.
#2 There was only 10 months between the release of Doom 1 and Doom 2, shit was rushed.
Its amazing how much of a machine Sandy was. Dude had like 5 kids and worked hard to maintain a work/life balance. His Doom2 maps got a lot of shit but in an odd way they're more influential on the modern mapping scene. It really comes from his tabletop background where tricking and trapping people is fun
Sandy joined id 2 months before Doom released and made 2/3 of the maps
>Romero busy
He was busy partying lmao
Wow. Carmack didn't contribute shit, then he fired Romero and took over ID?
Fricking fraud
>He was too busy during the development of Doom 2
c**t wasnt "busy"
he was smashing beers and playing Doom1 deathmatch and generally being an uninvolved ideas guy
You might go as far to say that 2 is a cash in. The levels of 1 are mastercrafted. Also see Quake 1, the way the maps flow is just sublime.
ok so which is it contrariangays.
i tried doom 1 and thought it was fricking boring dogshit compared to quake 1, and multiple morons said "erm actually go play doom 2 doom 1 sucks" and then jannies rage banned me for daring to shit on muh classic shooter (i dared to google image a screenshot of doom that had some journo site watermarked so they banned more for advertising but it was obviously just a triggered janny)
Doom 1 EP1 > Quake 1 EP 1 > Rest of Doom 1 > Rest of Quake 1 > Doom II
There's a reason they made the best content shareware.
shit opinion bro
doom 1 sucks fricking dick
Are you trying to one-up him or something?
im just very passionate about video games especially retro shooters
I think games with very few moving parts like doom and quake are very cool. without bullshit like crafting systems, collectibles, weapon upgrades, the games are more pure and the focus is on what really matters: the encounter design and core gameplay.
I just think that doom sucks in comparison to quake. and whenever i share that opinion on Ganker i get dogpiled by contrarians.
You said
>doom 1 sucks fricking dick
No comparisons to another game, just that it sucks. If you think that, you have the worst possible taste imaginable.
lol THAT'S why you always post this? still seething about getting jannied a single time?
if you haven't been wrongfully janny'd at least once you are basically outing yourself as a tourist
you're right anon heres my criticism.
the gameplay is too simple. the levels don't meaningfully differentiate because the enemies are interchangeable boring bulletsponges. theres not a single enemy in quake that can hold a candle to the ogre from quake.
maybe in the 90s when people were new to shooters, this was enough to keep people engaged. but unlike other games from the 90s i could name, it's just not enough today.
sorry theres not a single enemy in DOOM that can hold a candle to the ogre from quake
Are you playing like a moron on purpose? Just walk past the cacodemons and grab the shotgun
Here’s hoping you get banned again for spamming your homosexual gif in every Dom thread.
I don't like the Doom style of maps, I prefer Blood style, locations that have reason for them to exist.
They had small memory limitations to work with at the time.
I don't think that was the problem, its the lack of intent, for example, e1m1, its called hangar but its not a hangar, its not a storage unit, its a bunch of rooms strung together to make level, they have no purpose, heretic for example, the levels have intent.
>its the docks, there is water everywhere
>its the guard tower, there is a tower
doom isn't about simulating space. it's about encounter design
I understand.
Not entirely. Carmack has actually said that thei did make SOME effort to *sort of* make the levels seem like real places and he personally considered this to be essential to the game's success.
I always think of Doom's levels' "not quite logical" look as being the result of the forces of hell seeping through the portals and corrupting the environment and architecture of the moon bases, and some aspects of the game (like all the toxic pools) seem to even support this interpretation.
Raven was a on a completely different level than id.
The outdoors area is clearly a landing pad for spaceships ?
what's at marker X?
something that was scrapped? cuz there's nothing there in-game
Secret exit to e1m10:Sewers in the Xbox version
>Xbox version
Sandy named the levels.
You mean Duke style.
i only like doom1 levels more because of episodes 1,4, and like half of episodes 2 & 3
doom2 has a pretty good first 11 levels, and then full of random bullshit following that. romero maps are generally good, and peterson is at his best in doom 2.
Plutonia by the casali brothers is peak DOOMing
junkfood chads ww@?
>slaugthershit
yawn
>key hunting puzzle in a cryptic empty maze
ywnbaw
>no one really talks about how dogshit the maps are in comparison
This comes up daily on the doomworld forums. The thing is when talking about DOOM II, like when talking about any bethesda game, people automatically include mods as a given part of the discussion, since DOOM II modding is legendary.
Doom II was not originally made by Bethesda, even if they now own it.
>Why were the original Doom's maps so much better than Doom II's?
they arent and ill prove it right now
people, tourists mostly, jerk off over ep1 when its ep2 where all the nice "maze-like" levels are
some tourists again will complain that the city levels in doom 2 are too confusing, when in fact those are the best levels in the game and the hell levels are the weakest
t. over 9000 confirmed hours in doom
That wasn't proof but I commend your blatant arrogance and stupidity.
concession accepted
Episode 2 isn't as good as Episode 1. No one ever said the "maze like" levels were better.
>Episode 2 isn't as good as Episode 1
episode lacks both difficulty & complex level design (in comparison to 2)
>No one ever said the "maze like" levels were better.
i did
And you're the only one.
youre either new to the scene or purposefully disingenuous so all i have to do is laugh
>Episode 2 isn't as good as Episode 1
mostly because while endless tech bases are fun, endless hell castles and blood&wood which is boring
>Tricks and traps
>Barrels of shit
>And that fricking stupid city map with a giant ass arrow telling you where to go
Man surprised those maps didn't make it into your copy of doom2
and traps
filtered
of shit
hell level
>>And that fricking stupid city map with a giant ass arrow telling you where to go
über-filtered
>No arguments
>No arguments
>No arguments
I'd also argue that the crusher is a shit map only because my last playthrough of doom2 got to dead simple before I got bored
Doom2s maps suck ass you sound like doomkiddie who sucks his own farts over playing a source port
i accept your unconditional surrender
>Still no arguments
Did I hit a nerve? Maybe finish highschool first.
i continue to accept your concession
>Tricks and Traps
great map
>Barrels O' Fun
gimmick filler
>Downtown
just okay
A reminder that unless you play levels from a pistol start you aren't qualified to talk about the level design of any particular map. That is how they were tested and balanced.
E1 > D2's best levels > E3 > E2 > D2's worst levels
e2 is the best episode of ultimate doom and e3 is the worst by a country mile. your shitty opinion isnt any more important just because you announce you do pistol-start, as if people playing these ancient maps dont already do so because theyre so easy
>Not clarifying UV over pistol start
Larper moment
>UV
>fast monsters
>pistol start
No Rest for the Living is the real Doom 2.
Play sunder map 05 (no jump allowed of course)
Romero took a backseat for most of 1 too. People literally only praise ep1's levels, but the other episodes are far worse than Doom 2
>but the other episodes are far worse than Doom 2
No.
>No.
Yes.
I hate Doom 2 with passion. Few nice levels in the beginning only increase shock of total lowest effort shitslop of urban and hell maps.
I don't give a shit about an opinion on quality of someone who uses the term slop
because Sandy Peterson made like 80% of Doom 2's maps, while Romero made all of Episode 1 in Doom 1, which is why Doom 1 Ep1 is considered the best
Why do people even touch these amateur maps made in the 90's? Get some class.
Hexen is the only Doom-clone with maps worth playing in 21st century.
moronic post, making people aware of class warfare only works to endanger the powerful. Why would they push something that would kill them?
>endanger the powerful
They have private security and you won't even climb a hill with a view to their property.
Doom 2 level design sucks