Every basebuilder I've tried was incredibly easy, shallow and flowcharty. Even though I enjoy the fundamental premise I find the games themselves hard to enjoy for longer periods of time. Often this is because the setting of the game is incredibly ambitious which results in shallow game mechanics, best examples of these are Rimworld, Anno and Dwarf fortress.
Am I the only one?
t. never played Oxygen Not Included
Isn't that like among us?
Not really the same thing, moreover Minecraft clones have rarely been challenging.
>Minecraft clones
In what way are those MC clones?
1st person, you play to survive, dig stuff etc etc. I found them play the same
>Isn't that like among us?
Not at all, unless you count both games having cartoony graphics.
>Isn't that like among us?
No, it's like factorio-lite played side-on instead of top-down with a twitter-troony art style.
Factorio is easy to survive. Can't say the same about ONI
That is not great either. There's actually very few ways to do things that are borderline exploits because the devs nerfed everything else into nonviability.
Kenshi
Dude frick the holy homosexuals. They can suck my bony shek wiener. God I fricking hate holygays so much it's unreal.
Base building mechanics don't have enough depth. Base building is fun, but not engaging enough to seriously play around, especially at larger scales.
Even with economy mods, Kenshi is pretty shallow if you don’t play dollhouse with yourself. Love the game though. Frick the devs
>the devs nerfed everything
I miss the time before live-service games became a thing.
They also had a blog the other day, about adding micro-transactions into the game.
>anons taking this troll seriously
Bad game.
>It's trying to be a story generator
If only it wasn't simply trying, sigh.
Heart, a collectible card game, RPG elements and qt Asian waifs.
>the flow charts of resources and production are merely the rules of the game, the equivalent of R shoulder button equals swing a sword.
(every game is a flowchart, most of OP's complaints are just "video games amirite?")
>(every game is a flowchart, most of OP's complaints are just "video games amirite?")
Is this a bait? In fighting games you have flowchart characters that can win against beginners by applying flowchart sequences of moves. However anyone half decent will just adapt and counter the flowchart, forcing the other player adapt or eat dirt
The problem with basebuilders is that there's no reason to adapt, they all have a single optimal strategy and the game doesn't adapt to counter it like a real player would. Player has no need to shift to his playstyle because it works every single time, this is a stark contrast to irl environments where humans had to constantly adapt to survive
That just means the flowchart sucks. Every win in a game is a result of optimal execution of a set of actions. That can and is put into flowcharts, especially when we talk about base builders which are all about optimization in the first place. If you did well up to a certain point, nothing can touch you. Players don't like bullshit curveballs 2 hours into a scenario that force them to start over and readjust, anyway.
Your other point can be answered as any thread where anons complain about bad AI: you should play against a human player. AI only does what it's programmed to do and no computer opponent/environment is capable of seeing right through your cheese tactics and responding with a fair challenge without cheating.
>Is this a bait?
No and your fighting game example is just describing using a flowchart to counter another flowchart.
>there's no reason to adapt
>they all have a single optimal strategy
>the game doesn't adapt to counter it like a real player would
OP, this is bait.
You just hate single player video games.
If you want to live and play IRL, go start a business.
I like 1st person games anon and most of all I enjoy basebuilders. It's just that they're incredibly shallow while other types constantly bring in new enemies, mechanics or just mechanically harder levels. In comparison farming in basebuilders just means expanding the plot or using more efficient workers.
It's just more simplistic
>base builders are bad because they don't evolve
>that's why I like fighting games and first person games
Those evolve?
Clicking on a man's head until he goes down is deep?
My brain short circuited and wrote FPS instead of single player
I think the problem is base builders are stuck in an awkward spot. Make the game too difficult and you can't really build the base you want and customize it due to punishing difficulty. Or keep the difficulty low so the player has more freedom to build as they please and customize as they like.
I also don't think these games are trying to be typical 'overcome a challenge then beat a boss' type games, more just world simulators that you enjoy being in. No one plays Minecraft to fight the Ender Dragon.
>Make the game too difficult and you can't really build the base you want and customize it due to punishing difficulty. Or keep the difficulty low so the player has more freedom to build as they please and customize as they like.
That's not really true, just look at all the human civilizations and the incredible variety of it all. Even though it's hard it can be achieved anon, no one just has translated it to vidya yet.
>I also don't think these games are trying to be typical 'overcome a challenge then beat a boss' type games, more just world simulators that you enjoy being in. No one plays Minecraft to fight the Ender Dragon.
Must be an untapped market then, play to lose games are pretty popular these days
Seems like you just want Dwarf Fortress, which simulates civilizations and histories but people still complain it's not hard enough.
DF is too shallow anon.
??? its the complete opposite of shallow
>this is a stark contrast to irl environments where humans had to constantly adapt to survive
Come on, now.
Agriculture went through major changes in just the last 50 years, not to mention the entirity of human history.
You have probably never even been on a farm.
>Agriculture went through major changes in just the last 50 years
None of these were necessary for survival. Most of them were optimizations or accidental discoveries. Spaniards didn't head West out of a desire for potatoes/maize, artificial fertilizer wasn't necessary for survival, and the reintroduction of clover to farms was out of a desire to keep farmers from wasting fertilizer.
At no point in written history have humans had to "Adapt to survive", save those fleeing from genocidal regimes or adopting medical practices from elsewhere.
>None of these were necessary for survival
Maybe not survival but to at least keep the previous calorie intake? Absolutely
>Maybe not survival but to at least keep the previous calorie intake?
No. They were just fortunate improvements. Look at what happened after each:
>Population rises across the globe dramatically
>Population rises across the globe even faster
>Population entirely unaffected. Farmers just save money and fertilizer demand goes down.
Try no man’s sky or subnautica
Then play Against the Storm and try to win at 100% once you unlock all prestige difficulties and perks.
How would you fix that?
Rimworld isn't intended to be a challenging game. It's trying to be a story generator, and most of the content mods add to that.
Most base builder games aren't really meant to be challenging, you are meant to derive enjoyment from the building itself really.
Anno is mostly a game of managing supply lines. There is the warfare aspect and there are challenge scenarios/campaign but it's mostly a sandboxy thing.
Rimworld/DF have raids and it's possible to just lose, but the difficulty isn't really the main aspect either. Rimworld balances it out with the "storyteller" thing and the explicit goal of the game is generating fun scenarios. Tynan even specifically calls it a "story generator" not a game because he's busy huffing his own farts. DFs difficulty is vastly exaggerated. The game just is (or maybe was) inaccessible but day to day running of teh fort is easy. Most of deaths are caused by players making dumb decisions on purpose.
Try Majesty or Against the storm.
>flowcharty
What do you want?
Randomly generated buildings that produce randomly generated goods for randomly generated needs?
I want something to feel.
Variety. Not every playthrough should feel the same like it does in DF or RW
that would be actually cool
with no negative intent, i do not think you are the target audience for base building games, the flow charts of resources and production are merely the rules of the game, the equivalent of R shoulder button equals swing a sword. The "game" is in roleplay if you don't enjoy role-playing you will not enjoy making a lovely mountain home resplendent with israeliteels or catching invading dragons to breed, I do not mean RPG which involve very little roleplay since the roles are preprogrammed with dialogue boxes for you to click but something like a forum game or tabletop.
>The "game" is in roleplay
Which is a shame since there's not a single basebuilder that focuses on survival
Banished
>there's not a single basebuilder that focuses on survival
are you blind? there are many banished and DF clones out there, not to mention all of the mars games
Playing pretend in front of a computer isnot roleplaying.
really getting bored of depressive self obsessed zoomers whining about games they don't play enough to have an opinion on
have something actually in depth to say or don't make a thread homosexual
Play Imperium Romanum, Pharaoh or Workers & Resources then, gay.
>but they are city-builders
So is Anno.
I like base building, but I need blood. I tried pure city builders like Anno and Emperor, but they bore me. I rather base build and turtle in rts
Stronghold has the best balance between battle and economy. It's a perfect rts for me, I just wish it had as much content as AoE2. But I love city building in it which then can be turned into carnage. I love the screams of units being burned alive and murdered and see the walls crumble and fire spread, consuming enemy base. Just so I can return to comfy economy management and making my castle pretty soon after.
I too can't wait for Manor Lords my friend
You should adore Songs of Syx. Its combat is still WIP but if the dev delivers I'm buying the game at full price.
Runs like shit, don't know how the dev make a indie base building game run worse than DF.
There are so many things wrong with what you have said in this thread all I can do is call you a midwit
thats why i like design of frostpunk
Frostpunk fits the complaint to a t though, especially
>Often this is because the setting of the game is incredibly ambitious which results in shallow game mechanics
puzzle game. If it wasn't easy, shallow or flowcharty, it would be a bad puzzle game
if it didn't have an "ambitious" setting, aka theme, you'd just be better off playing something like opus magnum
OP wants a video game that is very hard to play, has overlapping mechanics to the point of making half of them redundant, and is unique to every installation or click of the start new game button, so you never understand what you're doing or what the requirements to progress are, whilst having a setting that somehow backs it all up or simply doesn't exist
in other words, OP wants a dark souls randomiser but for rimjobworld
You could put it that way but a more realistic example would be wargame in which you don't know what units your opponent will be able to play
>in other words, OP wants a buzzword buzzword buzzword
>I'm hungry
>Okay let's eat x
>eww no
>Okay let's eat y
>eww no
etc. etc. What do you get out of acting like a woman?
Consider Cities Skylines then. More focused on the aesthetics of building your dream city. Traffic management is a b***h but building proper road networks is a big part of building a great city.
You’re supposed to look at the pretty cities in Anno and make screenshots
Minecraft quite honestly sucks as a video game
why? Game is fun af
Fun in what way? I’m not a zoomer so I prefer games with gameplay, not games I can fall asleep playing after taking a bunch of fentanyl
Husbando prease, submit to empire.
First, are we talking about RTS games with base building or city builder/colony sims?
If it's the former, then there's a reason that base building mechanics have slowly been phased out of everything but RTS games that are actively trying to emulate the classics of the genre. There's always an optimal way to play the game and whoever executes their flowchart better wins. Any game with a build order is bloodless, even against human players. Base building sucks.
>setting of the game is incredibly ambitious which results in shallow game mechanics
elaborate
LuL
Play Factorio Death World.
If it's to easy install rampant mod. It makes enemies harder and you need to squeeze your brain to figure out how to survive
how about you get a job and basebuild in real life then if you're so good at it. where's your colony irl?
This. If your problem with vidya is that they aren't organic enough (because they're vidya) then real life projects are what you should get into.
They involve lots of learning and uncertainty, each scenario plays out different. There's planning involved and plans go off the rails (and off budget) all the time. There's a great deal of satisfaction when figure it out and you get to admire your completed work whether it's a finished residential block or knitted scarf.
Toughts on nebuchadnezzar?
Stuck on mission 5 atm
i agree they're all shit
and then comes along Against the Storm
CHECK IT OUT NOW if you want a builder which is actually challenging
downside is that as it's roguelike you only get to spend about 2 hours with each town you build but that's what it takes to keep the game challenging and the loop going