Everyone loves to talk about the worst twists in games, but what are some of the BEST twists in games?
shame the port fricked it up
also spoiler tag your stuff
Everyone loves to talk about the worst twists in games, but what are some of the BEST twists in games?
I played it on the DS ver and still found the "twist" in 999 fricking stupid.
Still not as bad as pic. Yes it's a german indie, but holy frick, nothing tops it beyond Chrono Cross' entire plot. Abject dogshit.
>I played it on the DS ver and still found the "twist" in 999 fricking stupid
a little harsh, but I do think the twist's importance is often overstated. It's a cute novelty of the DS format, nothing more.
>The twists in the later games don't hit the same
While true, I think people clown on the ZTD twist unfairly. It's a natural evolution of answering whodunit by going meta and saying the actual player is zero. It's just a shame that there's no possible way to actually follow through on the twist without old-school VN design so it immediately fell apart
>I think people clown on the ZTD twist unfairly.
People clown on ZTD unfairly in general. It was a decent game with a decent story and some people on this website treat it like the second coming of Hitler.
>People clown on ZTD unfairly in general
Mind Hack!
ZTD was dumb as frick, but had some nice ideas and moments. I like how some of the outcomes are actually based on chance One of the problems I have with it is how the first coin toss is guaranteed to succeed, it would be a lot of fun if that was random as well
>It was a decent game with a decent story
It pissed all over the setup of VLR and assassinated severaal characters. The entire plot hinges on the characters not wondering who zero is. And with half the cast being recurring characters, it makes absolutely no sense to not suspect the old fart in a wheelchair that's been tagging along the entire time.
>It pissed all over the setup of VLR
Yes, I'll give you that. It retconned some information in VLR's final ending.
>assassinated severaal characters
Which ones? Junpei? We know that he eventually became a cynical old man. Lots of people probably just assumed that he became cynical AFTER he got older, but that was just that, an assumption. Akane? We knew that he could be a ruthless b***h if she felt like she needed to since 999. You don't think that all of her cheerful girl antics in that game weren't at least partially an act, do you? And I have no idea who else do you think could possible have been "character assassinated". Sigma is still Sigma. Phi is still Phi.
>The entire plot hinges on the characters not wondering who zero is. And with half the cast being recurring characters, it makes absolutely no sense to not suspect the old fart in a wheelchair that's been tagging along the entire time.
Yes, suspect an old fart in the wheelchair who doesn't even speak and probably has Alzheimer's and dementia so advanced that he can barely think at all. What I just said is perfectly reasonable for everyone to assume.
>Which ones
literally everyone
- Junpei being an edgy moron. And yes, I know that in VLR he is cynical, but cynical and edgy are different things, and nothing in 999 or VLR gave you any indication that Jumpy ever was an edgelord
- Akane being a dumb happy bimbo. It's funny that you mention that her "cheerful girl act was only an act in 999" when that is all she is during 99% of ZTD. She is so emotional and moronic throughout most of the story that it just doesn't register as the same cunning and effective character she was in 999 and VLR.
-Sigma and Phi to a lesser degree, since D team is the only with a passible story (also the only one that Uchikoshi wrote for directly) but there are still some moronic moments (Like Siggy being a dumbass with the button) but nothing on the level of Junpei and Akane's.
Everyone else is a new character .
>sigma and the button
To be fair, Sigma in VLR is basically a frat boy and he should have grown out of those idiot moments after spending 40 years becoming a master in several academic fields.
Well, I disagree with your appraisal of their actions. That's all I can say at this point.
Tell me one thing, even if you suspected him... why wouldn't you stop at some point if you never saw him DO anything? That's the thing. Because he mindhacks, it's literally impossible to tell that he does anything.
They know the Mars facility is where case zero for Radical-6 happened. Until they know the outbreak has been prevented, there's no reason to stop suspecting people. Sigma spent the days before the game started telling everyone else about what would happen so it's not like he wasn't being vigilant either.
You're assuming that everyone will just always act perfectly rational and not regress towards basic human emotions and instinct that tell them debilitated old man = harmless.
No, but I'm assuming that the ones that are on their second or third death game would be competent enough to at least discuss all the possible options of who the mastermind could be like they have repeteadly done in the previous games they participated in. Specially Akane and Sigma, since they were masterminds beforehand.
And if they did, they'd rule out the possibility of an of an old disabled man in a wheelchair being Zero because he NEVER does anything to make himself look suspicious. Lack of a proof is not a proof. They have NO IDEA that it's possible to mindhack because it didn't crop up in any of the previous games. And once you consider that fact, from their perspectives Delta never does ANYTHING worthy of suspicion.
The fact that they don't discuss it at all is the issue anon. I don't care about buts or ifs.
nta but maybe you've played the game quite a while ago? From what I've played, the main characters were separated and could not communicate with each other. In no point of the story did they even have time to discuss who zero was even after meeting up as there were more important things to think about such as surviving and the shifting thing to save everyone. Plus with the memory loss thing, they couldn't have the sufficient information to think about who zero was as in canon, they lose some memory after each shift. While it may be obvious to the player, not for the characters.
It also assassinated Sigma and Phi, cause they went specifically to investigate and stop whatever is happening in there, yet they aren't nearly as curious as in VLR.
>Yes, suspect an old fart in the wheelchair who doesn't even speak and probably has Alzheimer's and dementia so advanced that he can barely think at all. What I just said is perfectly reasonable for everyone to assume.
Yes, it does in a setting where you sent your consciousness back in time just to find out what happened. Phi is exactly the type of detective protagonist who wouldn't rule out something like that. And just because someone never does anything doesn't mean they can't.
That's not to mention we (and Akane) got of Free the Soul being led by brother who's supposedly over 100 years old at that point.
It's not like they suspect anyone else either.
>Yes, suspect an old fart in the wheelchair who doesn't even speak and probably has Alzheimer's and dementia so advanced that he can barely think at all. What I just said is perfectly reasonable for everyone to assume.
Sigma is literally a 68 year old from the future who time travaled to his younger body to prevent super covid from killing most of the population. In that kind of setting don't you think it's beyond moronic to not suspect someone just because you are told he is blind and deaf?
>The entire plot hinges on the characters not wondering who zero is. And with half the cast being recurring characters, it makes absolutely no sense to not suspect the old fart in a wheelchair that's been tagging along the entire time.
It's so fricking funny how this is specially when you compare it with previous games
>999: It's impossible that he mastermind is my pure hearted childhood friend
>VLR: It's impossible that I myself am the mastermind
Those two are so much better from both an emotional and logistical level. With ZTD the only reason why anyone couldn't guess who the mastermind was imediatly was because he was offscreen until the end and somehow that also translated to the characters never even considering him as a possibility. It's beyond moronic.
i know this post is 2 hours old but i want you to return to this thread to see me saying frick you
I mean it ruined two games that are vastly superior. I was waiting for ZTD for years, and we thought it was never gonna get made. It’s pretty disappointing as a long time fan tbh.
There are 2 end game twists, the mechanical one is genius, the plot one is garbage. Every ending in 999 was terrible, it's just lucky the journey to them is good.
This is my exact feeling. I had a lot of fun with 999 (and the sequel), but I thought both had terrible endings. But they were terrible enough that they were kinda funny, so I dont have bad feelings towards them.
Game is literally about getting cucked it’s embarrassing.
Twists and turns are for 4 years olds and people who watch shounen anime.
Grown ups prefer compelling characters with interesting development/arcs.
A twist can go hand and hand with development or be the catalyst for it. You can like both.
Another braindead take on Ganker.
>nobody listed a twists yet
Grim.
>*twist
>spoil shit for me thread
At least be honest if that's what you want
Not OP but I just like cool twists. And I want recommendations.
Sam Barlow's Immortality is fantastic.
You're lying to yourself if you didn't think the Bioshock "would you kindly" twist wasn't great.
your double negative is breaking my brain
bump
It must have been cool at the time.
The age-up thing was more of a gimmick than a plot twist. To this day, this Link is the only one who had to be an adult to wield the master sword. And that Zelda appears to go from blonde to brunette in this fanart.
It was a twist for me as a kid, because I knew I was going to age up but I did not realize that when I walked back out of the city it would be in total ruins. I felt like I had destroyed the world
>blond to brunette in this fanart
That was officially commissioned art, I remember it was the cover of the brady game guide for OoT. Lots of white people go from blonde in childhood to brunette in adulthood (such as me)
>It was a twist for me as a kid, because I knew I was going to age up but I did not realize that when I walked back out of the city it would be in total ruins. I felt like I had destroyed the world
THAT, on the other hand...
Looks like we saved the day Lady Palutena
>medieval fantasy actually a post apocalypse and turns into sci-fi
Any games where the reverse of this happens?
Star Ocean games? You usually start in a Star Trek setting and then the game dumps you on some fantasy medieval planet.
Yeah sorry I don't see it
>here's a bunch of stories about mysterious/cryptic phenomena that may or may not have occurred!
>oh you thought phenomenon X is what's happened here?? actually it was phenomenon Y!! are you shocked yet??
not to mention the incredibly dumb "the player is a moron so we need to explain everything" writing style
Upside down sudoku was really well excecuted. The twists in the later games don't hit the same.
How much flak am I gonna catch for this?
I thought the twists were all well executed.
I agree except for the skeleton brothers. Never made sense, never explained, and after so many years waiting for Deltarune it's pretty obvious Tony didn't know it either
Gast made a machine that teleported them from deltarune to undertale. Gast got stuck mid teleportation. What is there not to understand?
It only worked on them because epithelium gets messed up. Since they are just bones it worked fine.
I agree
Undertale is a great game in general, people just hate it because of its moronic fanbase consisting on children and mental children.
>moronic fanbase consisting on children and mental children
sounds just like Ganker!
What twists are in Undertale tho?
the butterfly effect lol. also good op, reminds me of paramore song
it's been ages since I played it, but I still think about the ng+ bonus ending a lot, it's so good
Isn’t the purple haired lady his mom? (Sorry for spoiling this DS vn you’re never gonna play anons)
>kurashiki-chan, a literal child, is somehow able to solve all sorts of difficult puzzles that often require esoteric knowledge
>somehow this gifted child gets stumped by a simple sudoku and needs tenmyouji-san's help even though he has been nothing but a brainless puppet for the entire game
>she's also fully aware that yotsuba-chan turns into a murdering psychotic b***h at the drop of a hat yet she still takes her along at the end as if nothing happened
AAAAA JAPANESE NAMES SAVE ME Black personMAN
>he has been nothing but a brainless puppet for the entire game
Are you fricking serious? He literally exposed Ace's bullshit twice.
kurashiki is just copying what she's seeing junpei do iirc
its been a while
That's what I thought too.
There used to be this cool interview with the director floating around somewhere and it really shuts down any people who are like "Oh yeah well the game didn't think of this, so I'm smarter!"
Anyway amazing game I finished it at 4 AM in a half-delirium and can't recommend it enough if you like VN puzzles.
You misunderstood the game, it’s the opposite
She doesn’t know anything herself, she is watching junpei solve the puzzles and using the solutions he comes up with
OH MY GOD
I WAS WRONG
IT WAS EARTH
ALL ALONG
secondary
frfr
lol. I hate the cast in Xenoblade 2.
Xenoblade 1 handles this twist far better.
I deduced that you were actually the cat
But god damn I didn't see the lamp being the dog coming
I hate how I know what this is, oh well.
Game?
>Game?
Ghost trick. Honestly it's an okay game
Second best twist in the series
Lol this one fell completely flat if you'd play 999 prior to this.
The frick does Dhurke being dead all along has to do with 999?
It doesn't I think Anon has schizophrenia
Why didn’t they fricking play Apollos original cornered theme at the end of this case like they did for Phoenix in AA3? Gigantic missed opportunity.
Cause it's too funky and doesn't fit the atmosphere of 6-5
They are overthrowing a tyrant while at gunpoint, not dancing
I haven't played AA6, tldr?
This game has two really good twists
1) It's toxoplasmosis
2) How you actually caught it
Not the other big twist?
>Transition to battle mode
>eliminate the target human
I only finished this recently but holy frick was it good.
MIND HACK
Outer Wilds sun station.
It's not the character that gets rused, it's you the player
>It's not the character that gets rused, it's you the player
This kind of twist is shit
Second AI Somnium game rused the player too and it was dumb
Ai Somnium is hacky shit and Uchikoshi can't execute a twist well since VLR
The best twist in a game for me was Baten Kaitos 1. It all just clicked when it happened and was so logical it was crazy to me how i didnt think of it. It also made perfect use of the player inclusion as a guardian spirit.
I love player inclusion twists and player inclusion gameplay in general!
the reason the sun is exploding was not the actually mystery
i picked on the sun exploding on its own very quickly, so much so i thought the goal was to find a way to stop it even after the sun station and seeing the interloper fall into it. i knew both were red herrings, so i though the eye must've had answers.
"you can't save them" never crossed my mind until the ending
i feel like a moron
?t=1s
?t=2s
Genuinely caught me off guard.
is this game easy to pirate?
Yeah there's a fitgirl repack for it. I recommend also downloading the text speed patch https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/428:_Shibuya_Scramble
nvm the link in there is dead https://github.com/arsym-dev/428-Text-Speed-Patch
Yeah.. I can't look at him the same way anymore.
Major Spoiler for the first Trails of Cold Steel game
Didn't see it coming and thought it was cool as frick.
Is 999 worth playing? I was going to pick up the Nonary Games collection on Steam but then I saw a screenshot of a tweet by the localiser, Ben Bateman, claiming he changes sexist and racist scripts when he is translating. Did 999 get fricked with?
it's ok. I don't recommend the sequels
it's not ok. I do recommend the sequels
I like 999 (the twist is okay)
I recommend VLR a lot. I don't recommend Zero Time Dilemma but I don't NOT recommend it either its whatever
Play the first two and imagine your own ending. No doubt it will be better than what they came up with.
I saw what people were saying about ZTD and tried it even though as I have already bought it.
In my opinion, you should try out ZTD as although it wasn't as good as the other two, there were some parts that was especially good and it brings the trilogy to a satisfying end imo.
whats wrong with the port?
obviously the game revolves around dual screens heavily and most of what it got ported too changes out the dialogue on the top, narration on the bottom. Now it's a button to switch them out at any time.
see picrel
>A streamer I follow is playing 999 and coming up to the ending so I check in to rewatch
>He gets to this screen, says "hmm, I don't get it", shuffles a couple of tiles to see how things move around and accidentally solves it in five seconds
Christ, it's awful. I'm so glad I played the DS version first. Anyone who played Nonary Games got fricking robbed.
>Please enter Password
How do they try to make it work with one screen?
They basically didn't. Really pissed me off. Just make a unique UI that displays the screens side by side since monitors are wider than they are tall. It sucks there is no definitively good version because of this. I hate that I want to always recommend the DS version to people but I feel bad doing so because they lack of a flow chart is a real issue.
Its a travesty that you have play the game multiple times with unskippable dialogue to get the real ending, and while the port "fixes" this it totally fricks up the delivery of the story. One of the best VNs ever but difficult to recommend because of that.
repeated dialogue is completely skippable
Complex motives?
FF7's main twist is done extremely well and probably responsible for the high opinion people generally have of it
I have genuinely never encountered anyone who thinks it's dumb, which is pretty much unique when it comes to JRPG plot twists
I'll admit i fell hard for persona 5's betrayal twist because the traitor was just so charismatic
sorry for the reddit ass pic but it sums up the experience quite well
>revealed after the credits
>was supposed to be something huge
>went nowhere with this revelation in the following games
The real twist is Kojima is a hack since MGS 1
>twist
I already knew that
>haha funny drunk cop doesn't know anything about the world what a moron
>wtf is this pale shit and why won't anyone tell me about it
>this lady might
>...
>holy frick I don't know anything about the world
Seconding this. On multiple occasions DE went from a game I thought I understood to one that flipped the script around. For example I thought you played an intentionally nameless cop so you could self-insert. Things like your buddies over the radio refusing to tell you your name and laughing at you for trying. Only for the game to turn around and say you do in fact have a very real identity and place in the world.
Then again with the Pale. The game world is so familiar to ours that I just assumed it to not have any real fantasy elements to it. I thought everyone was talking in metaphors regarding Pale that it wasn't until part-way through the Joyce speech check I realized she was VERY serious that Pale was exactly as she was describing.
What a sick fricking game
Deadly Premonition is objectively shit in terms of gameplay, but goddamn the story is just a batshit insane rollercoaster ride of plot twists. It's been a while, but from memory:
The original Raincoat Killer's spree was basically a series of mercy killings in response to a gas attack that drove people mad.
The deputy is an insane troony sex cultist and accomplice to the murders.
Oh by the way sheriff did it.
No wait, the fat tree sapling salesman was the real mastermind.
Also he was responsible for the gas attack decades ago that caused the original Raincoat Killer to go on his spree.
Also he's some kind of unaging eldritch entity.
Also the saplings he sells need to be implanted into live women to be fertilized.
Also by implanted into I mean raped into.
Also once they sprout it's a kind of fatal womb based variation of the Alien chestburster scene.
Also your dad didn't murder your mom when you were a kid, it was a mercy killing because said eldritch fat frick planted a sapling in her.
Also the whole thing gave traumatized your tiny childhood brain and caused you to make an imaginary friend.
Also he kills your love interest.
Also you actually have a split personality and have been the imaginary friend the whole time, and have been introducing yourself by his name and referring to him by your name.
Also you get the girl anyway even though she died because your split personality goes off to some spirit realm with her.
Also okay actually the fat frick's dog who was in charge of the whole operation.
The last few hours of that game are a fricking trip man.
I wish that piece of shit pc version didn't crash every 5 seconds, I miss this game so much, and playing it is a fricking hassle.
Maybe one day it will run on xenia
The Switch version was (comparatively) stable, so the best way to play is probably emulating that.
When you find the swing set in the third scenario.
Case 5 was a mess but damn if I didn't shit myself during this moment.
What game is that?
Everything to do with this character. Literally every single scene.
>"oh he seems like a chill guy? yeah right, he's literally got the same VA as the 1st MC, I'll bet he's the end-game mastermind"
>no he's revealed to be pretty fricked right from the get-go
>"his power is luck? that's useless from the 1st game"
>literally everything goes according to his plans every time
>"ok he is a bit goofy but he's ultimately on our side"
>no he really genuinely wants to fricking murder you 2/3 through
>"ok well he's such a main antagonist he's surely going to make it to the end"
>no he fricking dies
>"wow i can't believe it i guess there really was a mastermind among us after all"
>no he fricking orchestrated everything into a 3 tier plan to either get everyone killed or to expose and kill the "traitor"
It's unreal that Danganronpa 2 is a sequel to 1, 1 is like a 6-7/10 and 2 is up there with Ace Attorney for 10/10
I agree.
2 > 3 > 1
I was young when I played it so grain of salt on the simplicity of how it was executed, but I was pretty shocked at the heel turn of this poor innocent cripple.
The credits of Automata. Both of them.
What a shitty vn
personally, i felt that the port wasn't bad.
although the whole story line was not as good, i felt that the best that the series offered was Sigma and Diana's story arc in the last game. That was kino.
I always thought cloud thinking he was Zack when in reality he was just one of the random goons was an amazing twist
I will not put a spoil for an almost 30 year old game
>I'm now a woman.
>I have no pronouns.
The Ontussy
Now draw her full of beans
Pic' unrelated, OP. The true end is big reason why that game fricking sucked ass.
No
>look about (e.g. a search engine) of the ending
>endless critique
>got so bad years back the devs tried to explain it only to get more criticism
You can enjoy something, anon, but if you're going to stick your head in the sand then perhaps don't talk about it. It's unhealthy for you in the long-term.
>trusting popular consensus
Lost me there.