In Pathfinder there are fire angels known as Peris which are arisen fallen angels.
For my setting, I use the term Peri to describe any arisen fiend. I don't have many atm, only the Perisian Lords (which are like the Peri equivalent of demon lords).
I ended up making Baphomet into a Perisian Lord and having his traditional role/niche be taken by Moloch. His beliefs center around staying true in heart no matter what is verbally said, based around the Templar practice where initiates would spit on a cross as a right of passage to test if they would be able to stand the tortures their enemies may inflict upon them if captured. It also symbolizes their faith would not waiver in spirit though they technically desecrated a sacred object.
His disciples often say crass and blasphemous things or pretend to be worshippers of evil cults in order to infiltrate them as they can openly denounce their true deity whilst still being held in good standing with him.
They often poke fun at other religions and philosophies as a way of pointing out key flaws in even good religions which could result in them slipping into doing dubious acts for their faith.
In addition, they try to take in those of "cursed" or "blasphemous" physiology who they see as having a good heart such as tieflings and non-evil undead. They actively try to placate and redeem good adventurers who have been cursed such as those who were forced into committing heinous acts via possession or magical control, or those who had become undead and didn't completely lose their minds.
The clerics of Baphomet are especially good at dealing with undead which were formed via blasphemy or religious disillusionment such as huecuvas (which in my setting are smarter than they are in the Pathfinder setting), the only known good huecuvas being those who were persuaded by clerics and paladins of the Templaric Order.
In DnD (or at least FG) any succubus can be redeemed into an angel. Succubae are a complicated subject and can be either devils or demons, some of them are fallen other just birthed. The process is long as the succubus have to do several good deeds for each of the sins she committed in her life (and remember that they can go in the thousand of years). So if a succubus that was born as one decided to walk the path of redemption and actually succeed she would count as a risen angel.
Why would they still represent their sins if they've risen above them? This shit is always peak moronic and the definition of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
>angels >mtg >system and setting agnostic thread with little more than a shitty question and a barebones attempt to make it "on topic"
Bumpgay thread detected. See you all in three days.
No, there are neither fallen angels nor risen devils. Their respective creators would not allow it. However from the players' perspective, they might encounter an angel who's actions seem evil to them or a demon/devil who's actions appear to be good but it's because they only see things from a mortal's perspective. To make it even more confusing there are powerful extraplanar fey who are neutrally aligned by nature but who might have the physical appearance of angels or devils/demons despite not behaving at all how they look.
> Their respective creators would not allow it.
Having a deity powerful enough to control each and every one of their underlings and then having those underlings actually show up in a campaign are usually mutually exclusive.
Powerful enough to control them? Maybe, maybe not. Powerful enough to destroy them? Definitely. If an angel or a demon is showing up in a campaign, they are furthering their raison d'etre.
There's literally no reason for it to be more complicated than that. If you want to make it complicated then, like I said, give them an agenda that is beyond the scope of mortals - millennia long agendas or transdimensional impacts. Make an angel SEEM like a demon or vice versa or use neutral fey. The "literally a devil... but good" character concept is puerile garbage.
> Their respective creators would not allow it.
Having a deity powerful enough to control each and every one of their underlings and then having those underlings actually show up in a campaign are usually mutually exclusive.
Theologically speaking it's about the nature of the spirits. In the Catholic theology one of the defining traits of the spirits is their will. Human will is changing and faltering. We cannot will ourselves to do something and commit to that thing with 100% convition 100% of time. Even strongest willed people can and will experience doubts, especially when confronted with any hardships. Spirits on the other hand posses the ability to commit their will in such way that it'll never falter. If spirit commited himself he can keep going without any hesitation or any fumble on the way to the goal. No amout of suffering can change spirit's true conviction. This quality is exactly what enables angels to stay on the God's side without ever getting doubts about it, but it's also what ensures that no demon will ever stray from once choosen path of the damnation no matter the consequences. So, how did any spirit fall with this arrangement? Well, before the fall there was a paradise, I'm not 100% of the proper explaination, but as far as I understand, if you exist in the world without evil, you don't really have to dedicate your will to oposing it, you just do what you are supposed to do.
Yes, they're called attorneys.
In Pathfinder there are fire angels known as Peris which are arisen fallen angels.
For my setting, I use the term Peri to describe any arisen fiend. I don't have many atm, only the Perisian Lords (which are like the Peri equivalent of demon lords).
I ended up making Baphomet into a Perisian Lord and having his traditional role/niche be taken by Moloch. His beliefs center around staying true in heart no matter what is verbally said, based around the Templar practice where initiates would spit on a cross as a right of passage to test if they would be able to stand the tortures their enemies may inflict upon them if captured. It also symbolizes their faith would not waiver in spirit though they technically desecrated a sacred object.
His disciples often say crass and blasphemous things or pretend to be worshippers of evil cults in order to infiltrate them as they can openly denounce their true deity whilst still being held in good standing with him.
They often poke fun at other religions and philosophies as a way of pointing out key flaws in even good religions which could result in them slipping into doing dubious acts for their faith.
In addition, they try to take in those of "cursed" or "blasphemous" physiology who they see as having a good heart such as tieflings and non-evil undead. They actively try to placate and redeem good adventurers who have been cursed such as those who were forced into committing heinous acts via possession or magical control, or those who had become undead and didn't completely lose their minds.
The clerics of Baphomet are especially good at dealing with undead which were formed via blasphemy or religious disillusionment such as huecuvas (which in my setting are smarter than they are in the Pathfinder setting), the only known good huecuvas being those who were persuaded by clerics and paladins of the Templaric Order.
In DnD (or at least FG) any succubus can be redeemed into an angel. Succubae are a complicated subject and can be either devils or demons, some of them are fallen other just birthed. The process is long as the succubus have to do several good deeds for each of the sins she committed in her life (and remember that they can go in the thousand of years). So if a succubus that was born as one decided to walk the path of redemption and actually succeed she would count as a risen angel.
What about Gluttony? It a pretty obvious omission there.
Most MTG players are already representing Gluttony so it's redundant
When was MtG mentioned? Because I don’t see it anywhere.
You think Gluttony could resist eating wings?
Why would they still represent their sins if they've risen above them? This shit is always peak moronic and the definition of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
Cute.
Cute
>angels
>mtg
>system and setting agnostic thread with little more than a shitty question and a barebones attempt to make it "on topic"
Bumpgay thread detected. See you all in three days.
No, there are neither fallen angels nor risen devils. Their respective creators would not allow it. However from the players' perspective, they might encounter an angel who's actions seem evil to them or a demon/devil who's actions appear to be good but it's because they only see things from a mortal's perspective. To make it even more confusing there are powerful extraplanar fey who are neutrally aligned by nature but who might have the physical appearance of angels or devils/demons despite not behaving at all how they look.
For what setting? Because in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting and Forgotten Realms there is 100% fallen angels and arisen demons.
Greyhawk
Powerful enough to control them? Maybe, maybe not. Powerful enough to destroy them? Definitely. If an angel or a demon is showing up in a campaign, they are furthering their raison d'etre.
There's literally no reason for it to be more complicated than that. If you want to make it complicated then, like I said, give them an agenda that is beyond the scope of mortals - millennia long agendas or transdimensional impacts. Make an angel SEEM like a demon or vice versa or use neutral fey. The "literally a devil... but good" character concept is puerile garbage.
> Their respective creators would not allow it.
Having a deity powerful enough to control each and every one of their underlings and then having those underlings actually show up in a campaign are usually mutually exclusive.
What is this supposed to be? It looks vaguely familiar but I can’t place it.
Helltaker.
Theologically speaking it's about the nature of the spirits. In the Catholic theology one of the defining traits of the spirits is their will. Human will is changing and faltering. We cannot will ourselves to do something and commit to that thing with 100% convition 100% of time. Even strongest willed people can and will experience doubts, especially when confronted with any hardships. Spirits on the other hand posses the ability to commit their will in such way that it'll never falter. If spirit commited himself he can keep going without any hesitation or any fumble on the way to the goal. No amout of suffering can change spirit's true conviction. This quality is exactly what enables angels to stay on the God's side without ever getting doubts about it, but it's also what ensures that no demon will ever stray from once choosen path of the damnation no matter the consequences. So, how did any spirit fall with this arrangement? Well, before the fall there was a paradise, I'm not 100% of the proper explaination, but as far as I understand, if you exist in the world without evil, you don't really have to dedicate your will to oposing it, you just do what you are supposed to do.