>Feel like replaying USUM with a friend
>Gets inside this building for ultra wormholes lore dump
>Finds this
it's every-fricking-where
 Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
 Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
the Interdream Zone is where Dream Radar takes place. you know, where the Therian Formes came from, and you connect Dream Radar to B2W2 when gen 5 was all about the Dream World still
and it's a common theory that terapagos made the dream world, so uh.. good luck LMAO.
Imaginationschizos are grasping at straw now. Next they'll say pokemon sleep confirms their theory
>NOOOO YOU CANT USE THE DREAM WORLD TO IMAGINE POKEMON INTO EXISTENCE INCLUDING THE LITERAL GOD OF POKEMON NOOOOO
what if real life is the interdream zone
>The Interdream Zone (Japanese: 夢のはざま Interdream) is the main location of Pokémon Dream Radar. It is described as "the space between dreams and reality" by Professor Burnet, who studies the Interdream Zone. Dream Clouds materialize in the Interdream Zone.
>It is described as "the space between dreams and reality"
So Augmented Reality, but let's continue to cherry pick because we're schizophrenic and like to twist words to fit a narrative. Fun fact OP, almost every villain from previous games tell you about their dreams and wanting to make them into reality. You should add those to your collage next.
Oh damn, yes, must not be related at all. Nevermind the fact that we’re for sure getting a new Unova game, or that the dlcs have a million Unova references. Totally implausible
>Blueberry located in Unova
>Gen 5 is the next gen to get a remake
O: oh my heck
>almost every villain from previous games tell you about their dreams and wanting to make them into reality.
>source: my ass
SV drops the keyword “dream” more times than any other games outside of gen 5.
only time lysandre uses the word “dream” it isn’t even related to the goal he wants anyways, cope
> more times than any other games outside of gen 5
Ok, proof?
Arven
>I normally wouldn't even bother showing up for class, but I came all the way to school today just to talk with you—our new celebrity. You've gotta help me out so I can finally make my dream a reality!
>Hehehe... Caught your interest, have I? You want to hear all about my dream, right?
>A treasure...of our very own... For me, that's got to be Ma— Er, my big dream of tracking down the Herba Mystica, that is! Once we get those herbs, I'll make you the absoluuute best sandwich you've had in your life!
>So I guess I can close the book on my little hunt to find myself. It's time to start a new chapter—one that's all about working toward my new dream!
Nemona
>You went to all the trouble of enrolling here, so spill, <player>... What do you hope to get out of it? You must have some kind of dream, right?
>Oh! Which reminds me! Remember in homeroom when I asked you what your dream is?
>It's every Pokémon Trainer's dream! The coolest title anyone could ever hope to get! Not to brag or anything!
Grusha
>So, your dream came true. You're Champion Rank now. You must be so happy.
Geeta
>The Pokémon League is where Trainers are reborn as Champions—the greatest honor that they might dream of.
Briar
>It's my dream to find Terapagos and prove that Heath's records were all true. Though I haven't yet been able to secure permission to enter Area Zero, unfortunately...
AI Prof
>The original professor had a dream...of a world in which future Pokémon might live alongside present-day Pokémon in harmony.
>You have become a formidable Trainer. Now use that strength you have gained to destroy...the dream Turo once cherished.
>So I've made a decision. I will use the time machine to journey to the world of the future that I have dreamed of.
Heath
>During our exploration of Area Zero's depths, I—Heath—strayed from the team and was later found unconscious. When awoken, I could only recall speaking with someone in an unfamiliar place, as if in a dream
No anon, I want proof the count is higher than every other game like you claim. Show the work you did combing every other games dialogue instead of pulling what you found from bulbapedia for 1 game. Show your work.
>Fun fact OP, almost every villain from previous games tell you about their dreams and wanting to make them into reality.
you show your work first for every villain. lysandre only "dream" once and it isn't related to his own dream. Rose doesn't use the word "dream" once either so you already got btfo'd with "every villain"
>so you already got btfo'd with "every villain"
Can you tell me the word I used before 'every'? You're making a bold claim you can't back up while misrepresenting my post to try and dodge putting in any type of effort.
ESLs truly are a plague
besides heath none of these refer to actual dreams, literally every single other one is using the word metaphorically
It's not like people are pulling the dream world thing out of thin air, on top of the whole wishes to reality thing people think is going on, the dream world is an existing lore piece that could feasibly fit into all this, on top of that one page of the paradox books where heath said he saw someone "like in a dream"
It ultimately doesn't actually need to connect to the dream world, but it's fun to speculate the possibility, especially since blueberry academy is in unova and we're at the point in time where we can expect Gen 5 remakes soon-ish.
>on top of that one page of the paradox books where heath said he saw someone "like in a dream"
I find it to be reaching and denouncing the plot of the game for something different. We have seen pic related twice so far in the anime, but it seems unfortunately we won't see any other Lucius visions/memories until after we get the DLC. The first time there was barely any detail, but the second time we got a very clear scene of Lucius interacting with Moltres. We really don't know yet to what extent these visions can go yet, and if each one would continue to ramp to some type of interaction between Liko/Lucius/Terapagos. Dreams/wishes are inherently not viewed as paradoxical, and like you've said we've had similar tropes in past games and they've never used that type of verbiage to refer to them. SV talks about time travel during classes, and showcases scenes from PLA and Hisui on the digital white boards, yet no one ever mentions that the Paradox mons could be coming from Time Distortions. If anything, those are more paradoxical than anything else discussed as we've seen pokemon like Porygon and Magnemite appearing inside of them, with Porygon being a completely digital entity. It's the closest thing to a Digimon that we have.
>I find it to be reaching and denouncing the plot of the game
The game's plot remains identical regardless of what the origin of the paradox Pokemon are, the player never actually time travels and the only person who think its time travel is the professor. It's not like USUM where you go to alternate worlds and meet people from alternate universes, or PLA where you're sent to the past and suspected due to coming from a distortion. The time machine only comes up in the very final act of the game before it gets shut down, and the only source of the word Paradox is from the Pokedex.
The "time machine" can be revealed to be something else and the plot remains intact, it's odd to suggest otherwise.
> SV talks about time travel during classes
No, Raifort says "damn it'd be cool if a time machine existed" exactly one time, I don't see how this is critical evidence for time travel taking place when the rest of the game is beating you over the head with the words treasure, dream, desire, wish, etc.
The line that convinced me was the piece of Arven dialog where he says the professor really believed in the book and "managed to make it a reality" this line mixed with everything else I've seen makes it feel clear that whatever is going on isn't just simple time travel.
As far as I know, we never time travel with Celebi in the main games. We never time travel with Dialga either. The time machine in SV is used as a plot device, not as a game mechanic. The time machine being anything else doesn't make sense, because the timing of events become even more confusing and convoluted. Heath and his crew experienced Area Zero the way he did without asking for anything, but the professor couldn't? They created the machine and started to pull Pokemon through, but their assistant left them anyways. They then wished for an AI to help them? At that point why would they not just wish for their assistant to come back? Why didn't they just wish for Area Zero to be exactly like it was in the book? At that point there was no point to continuing to waste years of their life because they would've already known. On another point, why did no one ELSE from their team wish for anything while they were down there?
/1
>As far as I know, we never time travel with Celebi in the main games.
HGSS DLC
We do, yes. In a remake 10 years after the original games. Do you see the difference between scenarios though?
Time travel existed since gen 2
>The time machine being anything else doesn't make sense
The time machine being a time machine is what makes things convoluted on the account of time travel not explaining things like Heath seeing a Raidon, the existence of Walking Wake, the origin of the AI and the significance of Terapagos. If the only problem with time travel was a paradox, people could accept it, sadly there are far more problems going on, on top of the game ditching the time machine entirely for DLC1 for another story about another character wishing deeply for something in Kieran, only for it to blow up in his face, exactly like how it did with the professor.
>They created the machine but their assistant left them anyways.
The professor's spouse saw what bringing the Paradox Pokemon to the present would do to Paldea and left after coming to the same conclusion the AI did.
> At that point why would they not just wish for their assistant to come back?
How could they trust them to "understand" (going off the game's words) if they already abandoned the project? The professor felt they could only trust themselves, hence the impossible, doppelganger AI.
>Why didn't they just wish for Area Zero to be exactly like it was in the book?
Their wish was pretty close to this, they wanted "the paradise from the book", this explains the Paradox Swords/Beasts despite them stated to be fake.
>there was no point to continuing to waste their life because they would've already known
The professor DIDN'T know, and truly believes they built a real time machine.
1/??
> why did no one ELSE from their team wish for anything
On top of no one else knowing (and there not being anyone else) the professor spent 10+ years in a hole thinking only of paradox Pokemon, whether you need a strong enough desire, or simply need to catch Terapagos' attention, the fact is not every single person is getting their wish granted willy nilly.
I hate how people go "wishing makes no sense" then grossly interpret how the story uses the wishing powers and act like it's as easy as clapping your hands and not Pokemon's version of a Monkey Paw.
>he way this reads to myself, and others in these threads, is Arven is questioning the order of events.
I get exactly what you're saying, but to me and other people it reads as Arven saying the very existance of paradox Pokemon is suspect to their core. Even if we live in a world where there's a paradox scenario and somehow the time machine was used to mail Pokemon to Heath's time, that still fails to explain how Heath saw a Mirai/Koraidon when it's explicitly stated there were only ever 2 brought to the present and both are owned by the player, nor does it explain how the crater was empty after Heath's expedition. The best possible answer I've seen submitted is that the paradox mons break out of the crater and are the "eyewitness accounts" you read about in Occulture but I think everyone can agree using Occulture as a source of any kind of valid information is just not worthwhile.
2/??
Committing to the time machine idea means needing to commit to answering these questions, how does Heath see a Raidon? Where'd they go? Is Briar gonna jack your Raidon and send it to Heath? Are they going to boot the time machine back up again even though the last act of the game was devoted to shutting it off? Is the role of Terapagos in the story really just to be a literal battery for the time machine? What about the existence of Dokutaro, known wish granter, or the significance of Terastallization and Tera Crystals as a whole? Is it really all just gonna culminate in a wacky funny time travel plot?
To me, personally, it feels like the time machine's role in the story is simply done, it's the gateway to explaining the awesome, terrible power of Tera Crystals, but they're capable of so much more than that. The game keeps coming back to the themes of treasure, wishes, desire, dreams, all to culminate in retreading the same plotline as the base game? Why drag the mystery out of the answer is just lawl the time machine xD? Do you get what I'm saying? I don't hate the idea of a time machine intrinsically or anything of the sort, I just think there's far more to the story than the time machine, and the time travel discussion keeping us locked in the proverbial box of talking exclusively about the professor sucks ass. Terapagos and the SV lore are the most interesting bit of stuff to talk about in regards to a Pokemon story, possibly ever, is it so far fetched to believe the hole goes a little deeper? After months of these threads I'm very earnestly asking anyone who thinks its time travel--would you really be content if the entire plot was this small?
3/3
>The line that convinced me was the piece of Arven dialog where he says the professor really believed in the book and "managed to make it a reality" this line mixed with everything else I've seen makes it feel clear that whatever is going on isn't just simple time travel.
This is the thing that I don't understand, from both sides of the argument. I can see, and understand, exactly what you're saying. Whenever I try to converse with someone that what the scene is depicting is a discrepancy in order of events, it feels like I'm talking to brick walls
>"Wait, hold on... Isn't my mom's/dad's time machine the whole reason the ancient/future Pokémon ended up here in the first place? This book is from way before she/he made the time machine, but it mentions ancient/future Pokémon. Isn't that kinda...weird? ... ... ..."
The way this reads to myself, and others in these threads, is Arven is questioning the order of events. If Heath saw those Pokemon in the past, but they're here because the professor brought them from other points in time, how did that happen? That is what the paradox is. They are in a place in time, with a dubious method, that should not be possible. The inspiration caused the event to occur, but logically how did it happen? The dream/wish theory is attempting to bring logic to solve the scenario, rather than a time paradox being the reason for it to be occurring and accepting that it's vague with no clear starting point.
/2
>And now, Team Galactic has obtained the energy to change the world! The power of dreams is within our grasp! Understand it, fellow members! My long-held dreamworld is on the verge of becoming reality. All those headed to Mt. Coronet, and those who remain here... Though our missions may differ, our hearts beat as one. Let there be glory for Team Galactic!"
>All spirit will disappear. It will be ripped away... From you! From your Pokémon! From those precious to you...! It is time! My dream will be my reality!"
>"I won't accept this! This can't be! Not after all the sacrifices we've made to get this far! What of my new world?! Of my new galaxy?! Was this all a dream to be swept away by your reality?!"
Strangely enough, all of these references to dreams were only added in Platinum and then removed again BDSP. His dialogue in Masters also frequently mentions dreams.
He has Darkrai in Masters.
IT ALL COMES TOGETHER
LGPE kinda proved his theory right didn't it?
Pokemon was never the same after Gen 7 games.
>comes to /vp/ to steal all his talking points
why can Pokemon have a non homosexual YouTuber?
Just imagine being functionally literate, fluent in English, and able to understand a time travel plot in a children's game.
If only there was actual time travel anywhere.
>Open a portal to your dreams
>Pull out a Pokemon that was in your dreams.
>"Wow, time travel!"
Confirmation bias.
>game says it's time travel
>"a-a-actually guys its not because I made a picture that says so!!!"
ok
The game says it's time travel and then afterwards the game says it's not time travel. This isn't really complicated.
See I've found the issue here,
>The game says it's time travel
This actually happens
>and then afterwards the game says it's not time travel.
This does not.
>b-b-but arven is confused and doubtful-
About a time anomaly. It's time travel.
The anomaly is that the "time machine" never connected to Heath's time period, and was only stated to capture Pokemon and bring them, not send. It is not time travel, the game says this through Arven flat out saying that it was made up.
this is the part where he says its a time machine so it can send pokemon where ever it wants xD(despite nothing in the game supporting this)
The game doesn't say it's time travel, one delusional character says it's it is and the idea is never brought up at any other point (at least so far).
it's so fricking over
Yeah Burned was a character created for the dream radar.
The theme of Alola was all about dimension
Dreams are premonition.
You're arguing over semantics.
Can someone explain these theories to someone that didn't play SV
It doesn't seem like everyone is at the same page there is even friendly fire in this thread I think
Just sit back and enjoy the show. They've been going at it for a year now.
>Time Travel
Time Machine brings past/future pokemon to the present. Game questions if they're brought to the present from a different time period, how were they in Area Zero 200 years ago? Terapagos doesn't have any specific powers that is the crux of the plot.
>Imagination
Time Machine isn't a Time Machine, it's an imagination machine. Terapagos grants wishes.
The main storys ending has you meeting the games professor, who died but you're talking to an AI construct. They tell you they got a working time machine that is pulling out the paradox pokemon. People are wondering why they're called paradox if it's only just time travel and how the "evolution", the darwin kind, doesn't make sense. There's also some in-game side text that suggests it's more than just time travel and that the "time machine" is really a dream machine, or imagination. The pokemon the professor is pulling out is biased towards what they want to happen, not that it's actually happening, like the professor obsessed with the future desires Pokemon from the future, so the machine might be pulling Pokemon that professor expects a future pokemon to look from his desires/dreams, not actually from the future.
There's also the bit about how the AI says that the technology needed to create it doesn't actually exist. And timegays can't cope out of this by saying it came out of the "time machine" because Scarlet's "time machine" connects to the past.
Anon are you pretending..?
And what do the crystals do, anon? The problem the AI mentions isn't a power source, it's that the technology itself doesn't exist. But luckily the tera crystals have already been seen to grant wishes.
The game is quite literally telling you they're used as an energy source, and that source is unstable. Did you notice how the AI was malfunctioning and had to reboot? Why didn't the professor just dream better?
Actually, better yet since you want to mince words, if the AI already had a wish to stop the machine, why didn't it just, you know, stop?
I think the time machine truly shuts down only after the AI leaves because despite what the AI says, they still wished to see the paradox Pokemon, they just make it so they go to the pokemon instead of the pokemon coming to paldea, it explains why the ai couldnt stop the machine themselves but this is my personal headcanon
Hey moron, when the AI starts going completely haywire you can see that it's MADE OUT OF FRICKING TERA CRYSTALS. It's not a robot being fueled by crystals as a power source. The mention of crystals being used as a power source was a completely unrelated journal entry that had nothing to do with the AI.
You can throw as big of a tantrum as you want but you're only proving my point. Tera crystals are used to help build and power the AI, no matter how big of a tantrum you throw will that change anything. If anything, why are you surprised they begin to crystalize? The power is unstable, afterall.
>Tera crystals are used to help build and power the AI
Correct, by granting a wish and imagining the AI into existence through the crystals. Glad you came to your senses.
>If anything, why are you surprised they begin to crystalize?
I'm not surprised because I understood the story and knew that the AI was made out of wish crystals.
I still wonder who in the frick [REDACTED] not only all copies of the Scarlet/Violet Book but ALSO the professor's notes containing Terapagos' name. I'm afraid that they won't ever address this though since they just did that to generate merchandise hype for Terapagos.
They did the same thing with Ultra Beasts in SwSh. It was probably just a design choice to make things more mysterious.
With the UBs wouldn't it have been interpol?
In the Crowned Tundra there's some page about ultra wormholes that have the block censors like the Paradox Book.
Yeah I think so too tbh, but that's so lame. It doesn't make any sense that someone would go into the professor's lab at the bottom of AZ just to censor that one specific name. So stupid.
It would be really cool if there's a canon reason for it, though.
>Why didn't the professor just dream better?
"The original professor created." The professor is dead. Also, if the AI or even human was just instantly good at controlling unstable energy and powers, it would be broken as shit.
>Machine
>being able to make wish
timegays really are moronic
esl
bort
>The tech cannot exist with modern knowledge
>Mysterious crystals suddenly make a dream a reality.
HMMMMMMMMMMM
I still think Tera crystals and/or Terapagos have something to do with storing memories. That's why Liko is seeing those visions of Lucius and how the professor could make the robot clone, who had literally the real professor's memories implemented into their AI.
It's a little complicated. Basically, the origin of Paradox Pokémon is dubious at best. They were brought to Paldea with a time machine by a crazy ass professor who neglected their only child to work on said machine. They were obsessed with that book that was written by someone who might've been a fraud 200 years ago. He wrote a book about an expedition to Area Zero, a mysterious and dangerous crater in the middle of Paldea. He said that they came across mysterious, dangerous "monsters" there, which looked similar to some Pokémon but different.
That professor decided that these monsters must've been from the past/future (depending on the version) and then dreams of building a time machine to bring them to the present, and build a "paradise" where humans and those Pokémon can live in peace like they imagined since they were children.
All they did was bringing dangerous Pokémon(?) to Paldea that threatened to destroy the local eco system and endanger humans, but they ignored all warnings.
Anyway, the only person who is saying that these Pokémon are really from the past/future was the professor themselves, and they were clearly insane. Things about them just don't add up, like the fact that Magneton's ancestor was sporting modern horseshoe magnets already millions of years ago or that all Pokémon will eventually evolve in robots with LED screen eyes.
Plus, their own son points out the paradox of Heath (author of the book mentioned earlier) could've seen Paradox Pokémon when it was his parent's time machine that brought them here in the first place.
So now people bash each others skulls in trying to explain what Paradox Pokémon really are, since the game is oddly vague about it and points out odd things about them, which is why they are called Paradox Pokémon in the first place. It doesn't help that the game also put in mysterious hints towards the third legendary, which is now known to be Terapagos. Its abilities are STILL unknown so it didn't solve shit.
>Completely unrelated text but with word dream
HOLY SHIT IMAGINATION IS REAL
There's two questions I have, if it's dream/imagination, why does Terapagos have the ability to create life? If it's time travel, did we really need a 3rd Pokemon to have access to time mechanics?
>If it's time travel, did we really need a 3rd Pokemon to have access to time mechanics?
The machine doesn't need Terapagos to exist, but it can be involved with the plot. Its lifespan and alleged memory storing powers can help drive the plot and cause the events to occur if it's sent to the past.
>if it's dream/imagination, why does Terapagos have the ability to create life?
The power level for legengdaries has been rising exponetially every single generation, I don't see why Terapagos being able to make things is that strange. Eternatus has infinite fricked up energy that bends spacetime, Necrozma can nuke entire worlds, Xerneas can grant eternal life, etc. It feels like they regret making Arceus the god of Pokemon and have been making legendaries just as strong if not stronger, then justifies it by making them from space. Terapagos is just the next step of that.
If it’s an imagination machine and it grants me wish, why didn’t Sada immediately get down on her knees and suck me off? Why didn’t she give me a titty job while choking Penny to death?
I’m really doubting the whole imagination stuff because of this.
People need to consider that this is a video game and that there needs to be a certain amount of content accompanying the story.
The AI says that the time machine is a one way trip for anything that isn't a pokeball, so assuming that it is an actual time machine the theory needs to account for the fact that the player cannot use it directly.
We'll most likely beable to use it after the DLC and most likely be where we can craft our own Pokemon, if it's anything like a "PKHeX" like facility that's been hinted at.
They're never gonna allow us to literally create pokemon after they've made it this easy to make any randomly caught one good.
I didn't use the word literal, why are you?