Denial is the first stage of grief. "I can't be hurt by losing something I loved because it was never really good to begin with." Please, Anon, it's okay.
Better than the ones who are doubling down because they've sunk thousands of dollars into GW and their identity is so tied up in it that any flavor change is perceived as a fundamental attack on their selves.
>Warhammer >Lord of the Rings >Star Wars >Magic the Gathering
all of them are shit, they had a run in during the best time the world ever saw, aka the end of the 90s/early 2000s, and thats it.
One shit decision after another, shit games, shit movies, shit product. Companies taking the 'turn your IP to shit in 10 easy steps' route.
I mean, to even think that they are not able to produce a single banger Game for Warhammer or Lotr, just shit after shit after shit. It blows my mind.
>late 90s/ early 2000s >star wars was good
lol
lmao, even
>Warhammer >Lord of the Rings >Star Wars >Magic the Gathering
all of them are shit, they had a run in during the best time the world ever saw, aka the end of the 90s/early 2000s, and thats it.
One shit decision after another, shit games, shit movies, shit product. Companies taking the 'turn your IP to shit in 10 easy steps' route.
I mean, to even think that they are not able to produce a single banger Game for Warhammer or Lotr, just shit after shit after shit. It blows my mind.
>the best time the world ever saw, aka the end of the 90s/early 2000s
I bet you were a teen at that time.
Everyone seems to think the world was at its best when they were around 13 years old and it's all downhill afterwards lol
not him but I hated most shit when I was 13. I do think there was a measurable downturn in median quality from 2012 onwards as the aftermath of occupy wall street caused a demonstrable and easily measured increase in culture war bullshit as wealthy elites incentivized division to try and reduce class consciousness, focusing instead on endless identity politics bullshit.
I've always liked it and don't let the fanbase change my mind about it.
But the fans and have every right to be attached to official canon lore for the franchise.
It's something people invest a lot of money and time in to keep up the massive role play for GW, they'd die without it.
40k is good.
40k fans have a right to their opinions.
Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes? If it was SM sure, it's been in the lore countless times that they're male only, but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well.
i just don't care anymore, not buying any GW products. Custodes with a pussy? don't waste my time.
Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes? If it was SM sure, it's been in the lore countless times that they're male only, but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well.
I think the issue stems that in the codex it clearly says that the custodes were created from the firstborn sons of nobles on old earth before, during and even after the Unification Wars.
That's what a lot of fans SAY the issue is, but this shitstorm is far bigger than the ones they made over nucrons, which was a SIGNIFICANTLY bigger retcon. At some point I feel like "muh retcon" is just an excuse because they don't have the balls to admit they don't want women in their superhuman boys club.
>they don't have the balls to admit they don't want women in their superhuman boys club
Maybe its because people are fricking tired of blatant pandering and inclusivity. Its transparent and takes you out of a setting when you can tell it wasn't organically added because it fits, it was added because some homosexual has an agenda above all else. Sometimes people can have an agenda AND the addition can feel natural, but this is not one of those times
> can tell it wasn't organically added because it fits
Bro, this is 40k. You think the orks were added organically because they fit, or do you reckon they looked for a way to cram orcs in their space setting because the fantasy setting had them and they thought it would be funny?
Nucrons are fine because it was essentially gw admitting they'd written themselves into a corner with necrons and needed to completely rewrite the faction to give them a lore that can actually be used/expanded.
Female custards is just gw injecting modern politics for no good reason and then essentially trying to gaslight everyone as simply misremembering. Basically they have no integrity or respect for the fans or their own ip.
I completely agree that the gaslighting is shitty and I would bet someone is getting fired either over that tweet(?) or over creating a situation that made them feel it was necessary.
I just think they never had respect for the "integrity" to begin with and always just did what they thought would sell more models, and anyone who expected zero retcons ever was deluding themselves.
I also think the furore has a lot to do with people refusing to accept this because James long ago gaslit them into making 40k part of their identity because there's no other way to make people fork over $1000 after you squat their $1000 purchase from 2 years ago. It may surprise you, but I HOPE GW loses customers; not because I give a shit about femananas, but because they're a predatory company that encourages unhealthy spending habits.
>Bro, this is 40k. You think the orks were added organically because they fit
This shows a misunderstanding of reality, and actually the Orks added beautifully to the 40k universe specifically because they were so unlike the Imperium.
Look at real history. Let's look at 18th century Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Seemingly these two powers do not 'fit' in the same universe, let alone the same world. Except they did. They are made more intriguing because of the totally contrasting world-views, the disparity in what they considered virtues and vices, and the way their civilisations functioned. Yet both were empires, and successful empires that rivalled one another.
That is how the Orks and the Imperium work together. They do not fit together, but they do fit in the same universe.
The problem with modern 40k is that they are trying to put an Ottoman Sultan and a bunch of Dhimmis in the midst of industrial Sheffield, and claiming they fit in and are accepted, and it just makes no sense. It breaks any sense of immersion, because these Ottomans clearly do not belong in the heart of Britain.
Having the two Empires clash is interesting. The great struggles between the Ork and the Imperium is fascinating and allows lots of different stories to be told. You cannot, however, have Orks embedded in the Imperium. It just does not work.
And that is basically the problem with the new-lore. It is trying to mesh politically correct sensibilities with a faction that has previously been rendered as a brutal survivalist fascist theocracy. For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies. Once you take even that small detail away, it begins to undermine everything else unless they come up with an adequate explanation for it (and they did with some female factions; fanatical nuns, the crazed assassins of an Imperial tyrant from a dark age, etc; but the new stuff just does not fit)
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And that is basically the problem with the new-lore. It is trying to mesh politically correct sensibilities with a faction that has previously been rendered as a brutal survivalist fascist theocracy. For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies. Once you take even that small detail away, it begins to undermine everything else unless they come up with an adequate explanation for it (and they did with some female factions; fanatical nuns, the crazed assassins of an Imperial tyrant from a dark age, etc; but the new stuff just does not fit)
Firstly, that's not even true in modern brutal fascist theocracies; consider that Iran's morality police, one of our world's closer analogues to the Imperial Inquisition, is largely female. Secondly, there have been women in the Imperial Guard, including all-female regiments, for decades. Thirdly, the Custodes all come from extremely privileged backgrounds.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Iran's morality police, one of our world's closer analogues to the Imperial Inquisition, is largely female.
That's quite the spicy claim
Do you have some sweet sauce for that?
It's not even really about the female custodes it's that the company has given in to a demographic of people who hate Warhammer, hate the player base, don't play the game, and now they run things.
>company catering to people who don't like the game
This has never been anything more than a cope you can only sustain because you never leave your echo chamber.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guidance_Patrol
They're the ones in black.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'd like a source for the "largely" part. As far as I know, this unit is an exception and basically a publicity stunt.
We're talking a world with rules, not kindergarten "I have infinity plus one power" shit.
>We're talking a world with rules
NTAYRT
I'm sorry that you've allowed James to convince you this is true.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies.
The Sororitas alone prove you're full of shit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sororitas were an army for the ecclesiarchy because they can't have "men at arms"
But other then that, that anon is being weird
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The Sororitas alone prove you're full of shit.
The Sororitas were literally created to be a work around to evade the prohibition against the Ecclesiarchy retaining "men at arms". Meaning the Imperium on the whole was so patriarchal that it didn't even consider the possibility of female soldiers.
So no, the Sororitas are not the girl power organization that you think they are that proves he's full of shit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Look at real history. Let's look at 18th century Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Seemingly these two powers do not 'fit' in the same universe,
You're a fricking idiot anon. Did you really compare two empires that were on the same fricking contient to aliens? Of course they 'fit' the same universe, you had god-bothering (Tengrism then Islam) cousin fricking turks (who as a people are the descendents of migratory foreign invaders) at war with god-bothering (celtic then roman then christian) cousin fricking anglo-saxons (who as a people are the descendents of migratory foreign invaders.
They're two different guard regiments at best, the rest of your comment is just as moronic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You cannot, however, have Orks embedded in the Imperium. It just does not work.
I recall that the setting used to have orc mercs and orc factions that themed themselves on the Imperium.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You are correct, again, this was in rouge trader, you could have ork freebooters.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Okay. Now tell me that it would make sense if there was an Ork as an Imperial Governor, reporting to the High Lords of Terra, sending along distressing reports of 'heretics have been detected in the sector' to the Inquisition.
How would they react to the Ork governor?
Maybe an Ork Inquisitor would respond? Perhaps he'd chastise the other Ork for his impiety and lack of service to the Emperor for letting this heresy appear in the first place?
... Does that feel disjointed to you? Does it break the immersion? Of course it does.
Let me again stress that you can have characters and even groups that buck stereotypes. They can make for some of the most interesting stories. You need to be careful with it though, because if you go too far it is just stupid and immersion shattering. Could the Imperium use Ork mercenaries? Absolutely, they do. Could those Ork mercenaries be typically insane Orks that get the wrong end of the stick and start trying to LARP as 'oomies? To a limited extent, yes, especially in a less serious and more comedic story. Would the Imperium treat those Orks as true Imperials, as 100% human, as true servants of the Emperor? HELL NO! If they do, it breaks the immersion.
And the immersion is broken when we keep having women thrust into positions in the universe where it makes no sense. Again, one or two exceptional cases with a good reason behind them? Perhaps entire regiments that ended up having to send their women because all the men got abducted by a dark eldar rape raid and the Imperium were unsympathetic and demanded they fill their quota anyway? There are ways of explaining it, but what GW have done in recent times is disjointed and breaks the believability of the setting. Even absurd stories can be believable if the story is coherent and the logic consistent.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If I recall correctly the ork mercenaries were also liable to attack the humans they were hired to help.
Let's not forget the Diggas, humans who managed to live peacefully with orkz by imitating them.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Gorkamorka was anything but peaceful.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
source on these models?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
these are kitbashed poxwalkers cultists and aos khorne models i think
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're arguing with ideologues engaging in bad faith discussion. What you wrote is 100% true and plainly obvious to any rational 100+ IQ person but it doesn't matter as the Cult of Inclusion and their coporate overlord, Blackrock, has spoken.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>There are ways of explaining it, but what GW have done in recent times is disjointed and breaks the believability of the setting. Even absurd stories can be believable if the story is coherent and the logic consistent.
Exactly this.
There are plenty of ways you can have female soldiers/combatants involved. You just need to provide some kind of justification for why women are occupying a position that is entirely atypical to our understanding of humans as a species.
A deeply ingrained religious principle (Sisters of Battle). An Administratum frick-up (easy and perfectly common). A last-ditch conscription effort. Whatever.
But saying >w-well men and women just happen to be exactly the same physically though every other gender norm remains in place
Or giving no real explanation/justification whatsoever is shit.
And frankly, since it perfectly aligns with the very real political agenda of nonsensical-female-empowerment-to-the-point-of-delusion, it stinks of propaganda.
Nucrons are fine because it was essentially gw admitting they'd written themselves into a corner with necrons and needed to completely rewrite the faction to give them a lore that can actually be used/expanded.
Female custards is just gw injecting modern politics for no good reason and then essentially trying to gaslight everyone as simply misremembering. Basically they have no integrity or respect for the fans or their own ip.
>Nucrons are fine
They are trash, they should have just made a Necron/Dark Necron split to placate both sides. They can even use the same shit, it's not like codex compliant/adverse chapters use a whole separate rulebook. Make the only gameplay differences between the two that oldcrons can take a C'tan as warlord and don't do morale at the cost of having phase out.
I think the lore says there still are crons that are basically like the old ones. Lore wise I do think maybe they should do like you say. I personally like nucrons, they let me make up my own characters and have the kind of fun I like.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I think the lore says there still are crons that are basically like the old ones
Not at all, rather than being controlled by eldritch gods they are just controlled by the central tomb complex's AI. Also they still have to take moral and shit.
It's not the same vibe at all, before they were scarier than tyranids (even Tyranids just have psykers) since they could do and surpass everything that other factions could do with reality bending technology that was incomprehensible to other races because they were partially created by a being who understands the material universe on a fundamental level far more than other other creature. Now they are literally just skynet for the fake dynasties of oldcrons. Chaos gets around reality by using the energy of another realm, Necrons/C'tan held such knowledge of reality they could change the rules of the realm based entirely on their understanding of it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
OK well then I agree, that woulda been cool but GW sucks too much to do something rad like that anymore. They're basically doing a george lucas and putting mitachlorian all over their own setting
OR this is GW dealing with the calls for femarines by just making other post human power armoured warriors so they can ignore them from here on.
Lore arguments are always moot. Since they've retconed the superest marines into always having women nothing prevents them from doing the same with space marines.
The actually funny thing is that the models are still all the same. Keep the helmets on and there's no difference. People are fighting over the theoretical inclusion of female custodes into some of the BL books I guess. If anything, it shows how pointless female space marines would even be. They'd all look the same anyway, so really who gives a shit?
>Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes?
It's just another DEI move and everyone knows it. Same song and dance, first it's >They can exist!
then it'll be >They're actually better because
and finally >All the male custodes are pants on head moronic so the womyn shine
Rinse and repeat.
This is the problem with you people. You're utterly incapable of conceiving of a way to uplift a character without dragging another down, and you will do this to the utter detriment of any storytelling. This kind of shit is why Forspoken failed. If you want a setting with all the inclusivity bullshit you could ever ask for, World of Darkness already exists and does not suffer at all in quality as a result because it was built from the ground-up with exactly that kind of representation in mind.
Play the games and settings that fit what you want. Make your own games and settings. Modify an existing game or setting for your own group. But NEVER fricking change something that already exists just because you'd like it better that way. That means you aren't a fan of the thing, you're a hostile intruder into a space you have no part in
>You're utterly incapable of conceiving of a way to uplift a character without dragging another down,
It's not that we're incapable. It's because dragging characters down is what makes a character good, you dumbass.
If it was up to you, your main character would be the inescapable chad who brings salvation easily and becomes the shining example of ultimate success and greatness. But that shit gets old very quickly.
If you really want to realize that you REALLY love your character, have him suffer. Have him lose and be in pain and become less that you'd expect him to be.
Weakness isn't bad. It's just an opportunity to face adversity and become stronger.
The reason you people rage at everything, it's because you can't conceive of the fact that flawed, down-on-the-dirt situations is what makes a character truly shine.
>Equating personal suffering with hamstringing a character
Yes Luke is such a better character for completely giving up as soon as the original trilogy ended so that Rey could look better, how astute of you.
>Noooo! The female character can't be the inescapable Stacy! >It is THE MALE CHARACTER who must be the inescapable chad! >NOOOOOooooo!
This is a blatant example of strawmanning and samegayging. You literally proved that you can't concieve of uplifting a character without dragging another down. A protagonist defeating an enemy is not dragging the villain down as a character. It's resolution of conflict that only really works when both the hero and villain are properly developed and portrayed. A character suffering is not dragging them down, it's conflict, and the resolution at the end can either leave the character permanently wounded(Ravenor) or they can come out the other side stronger in every way, or anything between. Your need to denigrate others is pathological and you project it onto others because it's the only way you can avoid feeling guilty about it
Girlbossing REQUIRES denigration toward everyone that isn't that specific female character or her close friends. It's not good characterization, because you never actually have the b***h earn her status. It's just given to her because she's a Mary Sue.
Make a female character as good as Ellen Ripley or frick the hell off. Actually good female characters exist all over fiction in all forms of media, and there's countless examples in real life. That you fricks can't manage it without dragging down men is despicable and pitiful.
Also, you have no clue how wrong >you can't conceive of the fact that flawed, down-on-the-dirt situations is what makes a character truly shine
is. My favorite TTRPGs are the ones where me or my players are just regular people having to adapt and overcome. I will point to WoD again, a system that was built with troon shit in mind, and yet doesn't suffer at all as a result, because it doesn't do things JUST for inclusivity reasons and keeps itself mostly internally consistent.
You don't play these games. You don't actually understand what struggle and suffering are. You need to shut the frick up.
>You're utterly incapable of conceiving of a way to uplift a character without dragging another down,
It's not that we're incapable. It's because dragging characters down is what makes a character good, you dumbass.
If it was up to you, your main character would be the inescapable chad who brings salvation easily and becomes the shining example of ultimate success and greatness. But that shit gets old very quickly.
If you really want to realize that you REALLY love your character, have him suffer. Have him lose and be in pain and become less that you'd expect him to be.
Weakness isn't bad. It's just an opportunity to face adversity and become stronger.
The reason you people rage at everything, it's because you can't conceive of the fact that flawed, down-on-the-dirt situations is what makes a character truly shine.
I.E This is what I hear from you:
>Noooo! The female character can't be the inescapable Stacy! >It is THE MALE CHARACTER who must be the inescapable chad! >NOOOOOooooo!
Constantine Valdor is a man devoid of anything but purpose, and who has failed his most important duties. That is not an "inescapable chad", and if you think that sort of archetype is what 40k is about you're missing the point and haven't read a single book in the setting.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Even characters in other series famous for being unbeatable/strong by normal standards like Alucard or Vegeta have way more going on being strong. Making a warrior character a woman in grounded settings makes zero sense in most scenarios unless it is a story about the very very rare case of women disguising themselves as a man to fight or unless they were not picked by a strict process since no process that trains people to kill are ever going to want to pick women over men.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Good thing Warhammer isn't a grounded setting
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Good thing Warhammer isn't a grounded setting
Modern day and human history as we know it is canon in 40k and in human history women cannot compete with men academically or physically on average which is why there are different standards for men and women for both and men are graded/treated more harshly academically and physically as well.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes it is, you're just too stupid and ignorant to understand how. Absolutely every part of the Imperium exists because something similar existed in human history. It is a parody of some of those things, and it celebrates others. You are not a fan of Warhammer, or you wouldn't be saying this bullshit. Instead, you are an anti-fan, coming in to change what exists to what you like instead of making something on your own. Your bitterness about your own life is palpable.
>but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well.
No, they explicitly are not. Thats why He made space marines, because they are much closer to humanity. >Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes?
Because they were not a thing. Now they are and always have been. Not for any in universe reasons, but for IRL fringe ideological reasons. The gaslighting does not help either. This is a signal, this shit wont stop here. WH is done unless they make a very strong statement dismissing this bs, but they wont.
Because women are almost entirely weak, sponging cowards and I'm sick of every single fictional IP in existence artificially propping them up and further inflating their already ridiculously delusional sense of self-worth.
>weak, sponging cowards
Kind of like you, I suppose. I'm surprised you don't feel more kinship. >ridiculously delusional sense of self-worth.
Anon, I try not to go for low-hanging fruit. Make it a challenge.
I really thought the war in ukraine would've silenced you stupid woman-worshipping pissants but you're so deep into rejection of reality it's sad.
How many women immediately sprinted in the opposite direction the moment war broke out?
Just fricking have a nice day.
>modern situation relating exactly to the subject being discussed (female cowardice) >how is that relevant?
Rich of you to accuse others of brain damage.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Applying real life to tabletop games where people kill each other with chainsaw swords
Yeah, you definitely have brain damage
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
We're talking a world with rules, not kindergarten "I have infinity plus one power" shit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And we already have Bolter b***hes.
Female warriors in Warhammer and 40k have been a thing for ages now.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>(female cowardice) >In 40k where woman make up half the guard
Anon in 40k there is no real difference between men and woman for the vast majority of the human race. They're both just warm meat sacks to be used, destroyed and discarded for the Imperium
read
>Bro, this is 40k. You think the orks were added organically because they fit
This shows a misunderstanding of reality, and actually the Orks added beautifully to the 40k universe specifically because they were so unlike the Imperium.
Look at real history. Let's look at 18th century Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Seemingly these two powers do not 'fit' in the same universe, let alone the same world. Except they did. They are made more intriguing because of the totally contrasting world-views, the disparity in what they considered virtues and vices, and the way their civilisations functioned. Yet both were empires, and successful empires that rivalled one another.
That is how the Orks and the Imperium work together. They do not fit together, but they do fit in the same universe.
The problem with modern 40k is that they are trying to put an Ottoman Sultan and a bunch of Dhimmis in the midst of industrial Sheffield, and claiming they fit in and are accepted, and it just makes no sense. It breaks any sense of immersion, because these Ottomans clearly do not belong in the heart of Britain.
Having the two Empires clash is interesting. The great struggles between the Ork and the Imperium is fascinating and allows lots of different stories to be told. You cannot, however, have Orks embedded in the Imperium. It just does not work.
And that is basically the problem with the new-lore. It is trying to mesh politically correct sensibilities with a faction that has previously been rendered as a brutal survivalist fascist theocracy. For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies. Once you take even that small detail away, it begins to undermine everything else unless they come up with an adequate explanation for it (and they did with some female factions; fanatical nuns, the crazed assassins of an Imperial tyrant from a dark age, etc; but the new stuff just does not fit)
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anon I responded to that idiot here
>Look at real history. Let's look at 18th century Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Seemingly these two powers do not 'fit' in the same universe,
You're a fricking idiot anon. Did you really compare two empires that were on the same fricking contient to aliens? Of course they 'fit' the same universe, you had god-bothering (Tengrism then Islam) cousin fricking turks (who as a people are the descendents of migratory foreign invaders) at war with god-bothering (celtic then roman then christian) cousin fricking anglo-saxons (who as a people are the descendents of migratory foreign invaders.
They're two different guard regiments at best, the rest of your comment is just as moronic
>hmmm yes today i will form my army >i have fifty billion trillion people but much less equipment and transport space >will i recruit from the 25 billion trillion that are clearly more physically capable? >no, i will equally recruit from the frail wimps that struggle to walk up hills with ammo on their backs without fracturing their hips >this definitely won't get me executed by the administratum lmao
>thinking the administratum excecutes you for doing dumb shit
Anon the administratum like any real life bureaucracy the more shit deicisons you make the high you climb.
Its 40k anon not real life gotta remember/ or learn
Humans now irl are not the same 'humans' as 40k people. 40k people men and women work 16-20 hour shifts 7 days a week until they drop dead, they are as a species evolving into a pyskic race, they are tougher, stronger and more resiliant than we are.
You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman. They could probably ace the navy seal training since getting pneumonia and hauling heavy shit till your legs break is a slow day at work in the hive factorum
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman
Maybe so.
It seems awfully convenience that every single fictional IP in existence comes up with convenient reasons to play along with the clear irl agenda of fraudulently inflating the capabilities of women though. Don't you think?
I mean, when it PERFECTLY ALIGNS with a clearly observable real life political ideology, that's a bit fishy isn't it?
I mean is there a single fictional setting left in existence that actually acknowledges physical differences between men and women at all any more?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's called marketing, you dip. Turns out you're no longer lowest common denominator. Which is an odd thing to be mad about.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Which is an odd thing to be mad about.
Seems like a fairly sensible thing to be mad about, a company rejecting reality and embracing delusion for a quick buck.
Masculinity can not be celebrated.
Men only spaces can not exist.
Even the concept of a man is completely amorphous.
Yet another way that I am shit on for being a man.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Masculinity can not be celebrated >In 40k
anon you need to go to another setting, 40k is a monument to the dereliction of mankind and ALL of his accomplishments, science, progress, religious fulfillment, understanding, prosperity, technolically advancment, peace. The Emperor hollowed out and destroyed everything worth living for, the Imperium is the ultimate necropolis that is beyond even Nagashs wildest dream.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the emperor destroyed
its canon in lore that a woman ruined everything by throwing the baby primarchs into the void though...
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Space Marines are knights in shining armor in space.
They celebrate a masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
They are absolutely a celebration of masculinity.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
First is that being an aggressive monkey is generally a human trait, not a man's trait. Second - to be an aggressive unbalanced monkey is barbarism that does not befit a cold-blooded civilized man. Moreover, keeping one's emotions under control was considered the norm for a civilized man since the days of the Roman Empire. And that another episode Murica destroys everything, this time replacing the ideas of true cold-blooded man with a twisted parody for infantile incels.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Being an aggressive monkey is generally a human trait
Ok so we're just completely ignoring reality now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHg6HmIQBzc
[...] >The universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...
Anon Custard guard are just as worthless and expendable as anyone else, thats why they're an army. People give them more vbalue than their worth due to their connection to the dead emperor but really, at the end of the day they could all die and nothing changes.
[...]
You've missed the point of 40k, read the older material and reflect on your mistake
I don't think the point of 40k is a celebration of masculinity, nor did I say that.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I don't think the point of 40k is a celebration of masculinity
That's literally what you said though read the thread chain moron >Space Marines are knights in shining armor in space.
They celebrate a masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
They are absolutely a celebration of masculinity.
[...]
[...]
Ohhhh, I get it. Your daddy never taught you to work it out for yourselves, so you're still clinging to outdated concepts of masculinity others picked for you rather than putting the work in to figure out what a Man is made of once you take away the violence and self-destructive idealizations propped up by rich buttholes who just want you to die in a war.
I'm sorry the modern world has trampled you so. But it's also on you to figure out what means anything to you. I'm doubly sorry you place your values in a for-profit fiction.
based masculinity understander
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Space marines being a celebration of masculinity doesn't make that the point of 40k moron.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So you think space marines, the poster boys of 40k are a celebration of masculinity
While 40k itself as a setting is meant to be a deconstruction of everything that represents civilisation as a product of masculinity? (science, progress, religious fulfillment, understanding, prosperity, technological advancment, peace etc). Do you think thats a little weird and doesnt make sense?
Hear me out anon, what if space marines, are just Sea People in power armour? violent murderous civlisation destroyers only looking out of themselves, and after 10k years do lip service to the imperium and claim to fight on behalf of to defend when really they are just looking to build their own personal honour and glory or coverup their fricks that tarnish their honour and glory.
Space marines do not celebrate masculinity at all
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Men only spaces can not exist.
Orkz are a race of chavs that reproduce asexually
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah but they are also modeled off of football hooligans
I would bet the reason why GW made them mushrooms was to stop people thinking the "Implications" of them if they reproduced sexually
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Marketing never involved a deliberate and blatant rejection of absolute reality before pandering to women (and their pathetic male feminist lapdogs) got involved.
If the 'lowest common denominator' now means pandering to delusional morons who don't understand reality I'd say that's a fair thing to be disgusted by.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>More breasts
I'm okay with this.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>muh cooooooom
People like you are even more pathetic than the feminists who actually believe this 'muh representayshun' shit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I am a heterosexual man and I like looking at breasts. What of it?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>is there a single fictional setting left in existence that actually acknowledges physical differences between men and women at all any more?
The Bible lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>is there a franchise where women aren’t men
Gorge RR Fartin afaik
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>So you're admitting 40K never followed your logic in the first place and expecting it to start doing so now is naive and misguided?
Women being "10% of the Imperial Guard, mostly in rearline positions" was the lore for decades since it was the only comment ever made on the subject in the first Cain book. That actually made sense.
Of course that was written back in an era before everyone became pants-on-head moronic and determined to play pretend that women are exactly the same as men in every possible situation.
Don't sweat the trannies and soilets that refuse to acknowledge basic anatomy. The lesson to learn here is that you should have zero expectations for any sort of narrative or entertainment that you yourself don't create. israelites and their hordes of degenerates will ruin anything and everything they can. Disappointment comes from reality misaligning with your expectations. Or you can fight for it. Either way, you're as correct in your observation as they are delusional shills.
It's funny how the people that always default to "It always sucked" or "who cares lol it's a game " never take their own advice and will argue tooth and nail for why the thing you like should be changed to suit their sensibilities.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman. They could probably ace the navy seal training since getting pneumonia and hauling heavy shit till your legs break is a slow day at work in the hive factorum
You're a moron.
Performing back breaking labor has been the norm for all of human history. Yet women are still weaker than men.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anon I responded to that idiot here
[...]
[...] >thinking the administratum excecutes you for doing dumb shit
Anon the administratum like any real life bureaucracy the more shit deicisons you make the high you climb.
Its 40k anon not real life gotta remember/ or learn
Humans now irl are not the same 'humans' as 40k people. 40k people men and women work 16-20 hour shifts 7 days a week until they drop dead, they are as a species evolving into a pyskic race, they are tougher, stronger and more resiliant than we are.
You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman. They could probably ace the navy seal training since getting pneumonia and hauling heavy shit till your legs break is a slow day at work in the hive factorum
If anything, extreme conditions would lead to a higher disparity between the sexes (women become better at making babies and gestation changes, men become hardier and stronger depending on natural pressures).
Extreme conditions select for greater sexual dimorphism, not less. The whole idea of "equality between the sexes" is a luxury of a wealthy and prosperous society that can eschew biological roles at the expense of efficiency.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
[...]
If anything, extreme conditions would lead to a higher disparity between the sexes (women become better at making babies and gestation changes, men become hardier and stronger depending on natural pressures).
Extreme conditions select for greater sexual dimorphism, not less. The whole idea of "equality between the sexes" is a luxury of a wealthy and prosperous society that can eschew biological roles at the expense of efficiency.
Hey anon are we humans now today evolving into psykers? can you hear whispering at the edge of your mind, summon warp energy to destroy your enemies? no? then maybe humans now and 40k humans are totally differently and again theres no strength or endurance difference between men and women in 40k, they're both just warm bodies to throw at problems
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Cool, let's just put infants on the front line as well. All they need is warm bodies, right?
Better make sure that Tyranid hive is wheelchair accessible!
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Better make sure that Tyranid hive is wheelchair accessible!
Good idea! We need to see if our shields will be effective in such areas.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
infants on the front line is a great way to test the foul tyranid xenos acidic weapons to see how effective they are at melting human flesh. brilliant idea you're promoted!
It's not really
Majority of the guard are men and mechanics use males for their troops
It doesn't mean that there arn't any all female units in the guard
I'm pretty sure one of the Ciaphas Cain books had all female regiment that combined with a all male regiment
>Majority of the guard are men and mechanics use males for their troops
Headcanon again anon. Mechanicus uses lobotmized cyborgs of unknown gender because its mostly cut away for cybernetics, guard uses any warm bodiy thats enlists or is gangpressed regardless of gender
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You can just look at the models and see that majority of them are men
And if your telling me that it's head cannon then what makes your statement
>Woman and men are equal, Not physically
They are in 40k, but I meant like rights wise and their treatment by their government in general.
But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts, both have theor own hyper elite military orders that are bascially super human. What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
not head cannon?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
your models are whatever you want them to be anon! Femarines are canon if its your personal models. All male Sob and Sos are canon if they're your models. Im talking about the overarching lore of the imperium.
Are you asking why men and woman are equally oppressed in 40k is canon? Uh its because of this line in every piece of 40k ficiton ever printed >To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
Its worse than any regime or tyranny that has ever come before that kills its people on mass on a scale never before seen.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>infants on the front line is a great way to test the foul tyranid xenos acidic weapons to see how effective they are at melting human flesh. brilliant idea you're promoted!
Just got to make sure that 50% of the infants we're slaughtering are female. Because otherwise it's sexist and we can't be having that degeneracy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You know it's been standard since 4th or 5th edition that your average cadian can service, strip, and fire a lasgun before they can walk right?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
10 year old Cub Scouts know how to shoot rifles, but that doesn't mean they are the functional equivalents of professional soldiers
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah and the imperium doesn't care, this is the same thing that straps bombs to prisoners and points them at an enemy while ready to mow down any prisoner that flees. Or use humans to clear minefields, or uses mass conscription, or has literally entire regiments fricked into existence in transit to the warzone
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Hey anon are we humans now today evolving into psykers? can you hear whispering at the edge of your mind, summon warp energy to destroy your enemies? no? then maybe humans now and 40k humans are totally differently and again theres no strength or endurance difference between men and women in 40k, they're both just warm bodies to throw at problems
Humans always possessed psychic potential, moron. That's literally what the emperor is an ancient immortal psyker that was born thousands of years ago.
How do you not know this?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Humans always possessed psychic potential, moron. That's literally what the emperor is an ancient immortal psyker that was born thousands of years ago. >Believingthe in universe propoganda about the Emperors origins
oh no no no anon
Also are you seriously saying that because Big E in 40k had psyker powers since the dawn of humanity as he claimed, therefore we humans today in reality as players have psykic powers? Are you saying modern real people are the same as ficitional 40k people?
We dont have magic bro, and in the 40k in universe rules humans didn't have it in M2 either, besides like forture tellers have like omega level pyskic at best strength like the Tau do in M41
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Are you saying modern real people are the same as ficitional 40k people?
That's the whole fricking point moron. It's supposed to be the fricking future.
>hurr real life isn't the same as the fictional story! gotcha!
You really are fricking dumb.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
anon 40k has fricking elves and ork's its warhammer fantasy in space. There whole 'its our future' is the weakest and worst part of the setting. 'wow Malcador has the Mona Lisa isnt that cool?' shits moronic
You're the one upset that a ficitional setting is doing ficitonal things like letting women into the gene enchanced super solider program that are glorified palace jannies
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It's a fictional setting with dragons and elves, why shouldn't Frodo drive a Toyota Corolla?
Get new material.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Women warriors are as setting breaking as cars in middle earth
Culture war brainrot is real
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No one i think is asying warrior women is breaking, they are saying that injecting them into existing factions is restarded.
Wanna know something i would have been really ok with?
Why not upgrade sisters? Why not introduce something like cawl making some sort of break through for tech and a better version of power armor for sisters that bumps their stat line up to astares. Boom problem fricking solved.
Then ok OK here is a cool fricking idea. How about GW actually not be shit at writting rules, ok, and make it so allied armies work again. so you can run marines and sisters together easily.
Wanna know hwy older editions are so good? and for example why say CSM 3.5 is regarded as one of the best codexes ever made? Because it let you blend in so much flavor shit into that faction and into armies.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>No one i think is asying warrior women is breaking
That anon certainly is. I agree that female Custodes is a blatant retcon for GW to cover their asses and appease the "we want female Astartes" crowd halfway.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
We already have warrior women in the game and setting going way back to 3rd ed and beyond, frick howling banshees are one such example, a frick ton of eldar in general are mixed male and female.
Sisters of battle.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It really is. Why would the IoM have the same liberal attitudes to "gender roles" as we do? What moral lineage would that idea have? Why would it not be accompanied by other liberal ideas about tabular rasa and innate difference? What is the limiting factor, if at all?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Humans always possessed psychic potential, moron
Like everyone of them? no, not every human has psycic potential. Being a psyker is technically a genetic mutation, not a learned skill, this is why house navigators are family based because their children are born navigators and with great psyker power.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Like everyone of them? no, not every human has psycic potential
Everyone as in humans as a species, not everyone on the individual scale. Like how humans as a species have the potential to write symphonies, but most people actually don't.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well, no, not every human has the potential to be a psyker, only those with the genetic mutation can be a psyker.
Humans can be psykers of course, but any random human cant just learn how to be a psyker unless they posse the genetic mutation or are mutated to gain it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's literally what I'm saying.
Humans possess the genetic potential to be psykers and always have possessed this potential. Just because humans as a species possess this potential doesn't mean though, that any human can become a psyker if they train real hard.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>That's literally what I'm saying.
Yeah im agreeing with you hah.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>can you hear whispering at the edge of your mind
Yeah
Still working on the other part
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>incapable of following the reply chain
ESL?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Just because 40k is absurd does not mean it cannot be immersive and believable. What is required for immersion and believability is for it to be coherent, consistent and have a logical basis for what is happening in it.
One of the main aspects of the Imperium is that it is dedicated to maintain constant and endless wars. For that to be possible, it needs a constant and endless supply of soldiers. For that to be possible, many if not most worlds must be dedicated to facilitating that constant and endless supply of soldiers; thus their social laws would, in the majority of cases, have women being little more than baby-factories.
If there are worlds with no conscription, then sure, we might see the women forced to toil as a nameless, genderless, personless number that is dedicated towards providing food, munitions or whatever else that is required to bolster the Emperor's endless armies.
Having women serving in the military though? No, or at least only an extreme exception. If you make it the norm, it undermines the entire nature of the Imperium. It makes it unbelievable. Can you still create the occasional mixed or even female only faction? Of course, but there needs to be a good reason for it. Previous good reasons have leant on the religious nature of the Imperium to justify sects of fanatical nuns, or as the prized personal assassins of a perverse mad tyrant. I'm sure there could be some other good reasons too, but we have not seen them in recent times.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Applying real life to tabletop games where people kill each other with chainsaw swords
So it's even more brutal than real life. How does that refute his point?
>(female cowardice) >In 40k where woman make up half the guard
Anon in 40k there is no real difference between men and woman for the vast majority of the human race. They're both just warm meat sacks to be used, destroyed and discarded for the Imperium
We're not talking about chaff thrown into the meat grinder by the millions. When you're talking about the pinnacle of combat prowess, they are going to be men, considering the immense difference in physical capabilities. >B-b-b-but they modify them and enhance them!
You still wouldn't start out with somebody half as strong as an average man
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You still wouldn't start out with somebody half as strong as an average man
Anon this is the Imperium of Man we're talking about. Yes they would. Yes they can and they would sacrifice millions of men and women to do it if someone tried to stop them.
They make sevitors out of babys for religious/ honour reasons, they turn women into super soldiers as well. And remeber anon the custodes don't take the 'best of the best' they take noble sons of the elite on terra, inbred weaklings, the custodians project might just be able to turn anyone, even disabled people into the same super human baseline. the starting stock is probably totally irrelvant the process makes them all perfectly equal by the end
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
ok but why should they change established lore for this? Im not that annon but thats whats always bothered me, why should they change the status quo in justify female space marine's and custodes?
There are plenty of strong female warrior units and even factions.
Why the facination with retconning long established lore JUST to justify space marine and custodes?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>why should they change the status quo
GW does it constatly for everyone. the real meta reason? Well stormcasts eternals have a LOT of female heads, and GW likes cross use products between their 2 ips so female custodes = more stormcast kits sold is a win for them. ALL lore and fluff is window dressing for the cold hard business of miniture selling, and is changed on a whim accordingly
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why would GW changing it for everyone else make it okay for them to do it now?
Anf alot of people complain constantly about GW doing anything to a faction
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>GW does it constatly for everyone.
Ok and everyone can play space marines, man or women, everyone can play sisters of battle man or woman so why change it? >ALL lore and fluff is window dressing for the cold hard business of miniture selling, and is changed on a whim accordingly
This is the problem, this is how you only are able to tap into fair weather fans and drive away hard core one.
This is why i think GW is headed right for an iceberg thats going to be early 2000's levels of bad. Covid bucks are drying up, economy is going to shit, and the first hing that goes is luxury goods and hobby goods. GW has picked pandering and gutting of lore to appeal to the largest fan base to get as much money as they can, business just like you said, but tbecuase they showed they dont give a shit about lore, they lost a lot of the die hard fanbase. So i think they are going to end up getting rail roaded here soon enough.
>to justify space marine
NTA isn't this entire conversation about Custodes? why are you talking about SM?
Because its very obvious that whats good for the goose is good for the gander. if custodes do it, SM 100% will. This iIS the start of that.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>>ALL lore and fluff is window dressing for the cold hard business of miniture selling, and is changed on a whim accordingly >This is the problem, this is how you only are able to tap into fair weather fans and drive away hard core one.
Exactly. When the company asking you to spend thousands of dollars to play their game tells you "lol nothing matters who cares" you can't expect anyone outside of addicted consumers to continue to be interested.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>to justify space marine
NTA isn't this entire conversation about Custodes? why are you talking about SM?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The custadards are basically the emperor's space marine to someone on the outside looking in
So people think GW would use female custards to push FSM
Sorta giving them the argument
"Why can't there be FSM? there are female custards! and they are 100% better then the SM, You're telling me that the imperium can afford female custards but not female SM?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>to justify space marine
NTA isn't this entire conversation about Custodes? why are you talking about SM?
also the Custodes are basically the premium version of the SM, they were the prototypes for the Spacemarines/primarch project, and like many prototypes they are generally better made because they are not for mass production.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the custodians project might just be able to turn anyone, even disabled people into the same super human baseline
No they should not fix a cripple because the custode project start from before birth, each custode is genetically tailored. So if you dont come out perfect, you dont go into the program.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>So if you dont come out perfect >Are drawn from the noble sons (and now daughters) of random noble families on Terra. Anon they are inbred to frick and back, they are grimdark hasburgs that get turned into golden armoured genius gods. They could probably cure autism and down syndrome via the custodian process which starts later in life than astartes, because its better so you don't need as earlier access to rewrite their biology
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Anon they are inbred to frick and back, they are grimdark hasburgs that get turned into golden armoured genius gods. They could probably cure autism and down syndrome via the custodian process which starts later in life than astartes, because its better so you don't need as earlier access to rewrite their biology
Now you're just making shit up, you rat bastard. The idea that the noble houses of earth were inbred, back during the time of the Emperor is fricking moronic.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
nta but were there noble houses durng the age of strife and unification wars? wasn't everyone either a scientist making gene-warriors, making power armour or a slave to the techno-barbarian warlords? like its a global nucelar somilia with advanced weapon and tech labs scattered around. spire nobles came later?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Black person they are inbred NOW, what are they gonna do? Uninbreed eachother?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Black person they are inbred NOW, what are they gonna do? Uninbreed eachother?
What do mean "now"?
What does the state of the Custodes "now" have to do with the Custodes as the Emperor created them?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And remeber anon the custodes don't take the 'best of the best' they take noble sons of the elite on terra, inbred weaklings,
The nobles have the best food, quality of life, and education meaning their children quite literally have the highest chance of being the "best of the best" insofar as healthy children go. Beyond that though, becoming a Custodes is a great honor which is why the elite families are chosen. >the custodians project might just be able to turn anyone, even disabled people into the same super human baseline. >the starting stock is probably totally irrelvant the process makes them all perfectly equal by the end
Creating a Custodes (or an Astartes for that matter though the process is different) is incredibly expensive and has a very high likelihood of failure. I believe the source says only 1 out of 1000 hand-selected, prime candidates completes the process.
So they're definitely not going to "hand select" the kid in the wheel chair to undergo the grueling process to become paradigm of human super soldier. Maybe they could do that during the height of the Age of Technology where the baseline doesn't matter but the current Imperium is running on fumes and the fragments of lost tech. They're not picking polio-crutches Sally over chad Timmy.
Otherwise they'd make millions of Custodes and sweep the galaxy if they had the ability to attempt the process on a trillion people without caring. >but muh fantasy logic
Okay. So if logic doesn't matter then do whatever the frick you want. Remove male and female altogether and do away with the innate sexism. Remove human disabilities. If we're severing all ties to reality for the sake of "inclusiveness" then let's go in full. The religion around the Emperor is problematic as well as it excludes atheists and non-monotheists. In fact, the whole "war" thing is problematic and reeks of toxic masculinity. The various races should use diplomacy exclusively to solve their differences.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>only 1 out of 1000 hand-selected, prime candidates completes the process
thats space marines. There is NO information about how custodes create more custodes, the procedure or the survival rate, it could be a 100% survival rate we literally do not know. All we know is that they take from the noble sons of spire nobles on Terra. >Okay. So if logic doesn't matter then do whatever the frick you want.
yeah c**t is a TT game that uses fluff to sell minis and books to nerds. >Remove male and female altogether and do away with the innate sexism.
That is how the Imperium views humanity yes, its one mass ensalved to the Emperor and dying Imperium >Remove human disabilities.
Cybernetics >The religion around the Emperor is problematic
Yeah thats literally the point its a nightmate theocratic living hell thats so bad theres even daemons help imperials fighting aganist it >The whole "war" thing is problematic
Yeah c**t your on the money, its the grim dark future because theres only war, its a fricked dark and grim future because of that. GW are anti-war >The various races should use diplomacy exclusively to solve their differences.
Thats the sensible thing to do yes, thats why the Tau do it and why the imperials shoot you for trying
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Yeah thats literally the point its a nightmate theocratic living hell thats so bad theres even daemons help imperials fighting aganist it
And the fact that some segments of the population think that they need "representation" in such a setting and that it will help solve the problems IRL is somewhat unnerving. You start to think that they missed the whole part about how evil Imperium is and that they really think that being part of the Imperium is cool.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
eh I kinda get it, think about how people want unqiue warrior cultures like native americans, aztecs, celts to have their own astartes chapter? Its a crap piece of shit and everyone wants in because its fun being the victim of this nightmarish undying theocratic facist fedual imperium fighting daemons, extragalatic aliens and space elves and football hooligan orks
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
This. It's insane to me that these morons think they need representation; as if the nightmarish hellscape of the 41st millennium is supposed to be about them, rather than the nightmarish hellscape of the 41st millennium.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>thats space marines. There is NO information about how custodes create more custodes, the procedure or the survival rate, it could be a 100% survival rate we literally do not know. All we know is that they take from the noble sons of spire nobles on Terra.
1 out of 1000.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes#The_Firstborn
The process is even more grueling and demanding than the Astartes. >That is how the Imperium views humanity yes, its one mass ensalved to the Emperor and dying Imperium
Slaughtering children, bathing in innocent blood, and sacrificing thousands daily to the "good" god is all perfectly acceptable in the setting - BUT don't you DARE segregate based on sex! >Cybernetics
You know nothing about the 40k setting.
Technology in the Imperium is degrading and unreliable. The Adeptus Mechanicus require very specialized knowledge and constant upkeep to maintain their cybernetic modifications and even then they're still falling apart. The amount of bullshit required to maintain advanced machinery is quite literally a full-time job. It's also inferior to the genetic modification of the Custodes or Astartes since the end of the Age of Technology.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>uncited wiki entry, of the worst of the 3 40k wikis.
Codex citation or nothing anon >Slaughtering children, bathing in innocent blood, and sacrificing thousands daily to the "good" god is all perfectly acceptable in the setting - BUT don't you DARE segregate based on sex!
you've got it backwards anon, they don't segregate basd on sex because they're okay with bathing in blood, killing babies to make cherubs, mass human sacrifce etc. >The Adeptus Mechanicus require very specialized knowledge and constant upkeep to maintain their cybernetic modifications
No anon there not that bad with technology thats a more secondary meme. Their skitarri, their slave cybrog armies are filled to the gills with cybernetics so its cheap and mass produced for people/things they deem useful for them. The fact that astartes get sybernetics that are the same as their actual flesh and blood means that the Imperium has effectively developed technologically beyond physcial disabilitys, they have anti-grav tech (makes servo-skulls fly) so even if they you get robot legs you could glid. its that theres no universal access to the tech. its heavily controlled, so any disabled person in 40k is because people are all equally expendable and worthless (hence why woman and men are not segregated by sex anywhere but SoB and astartes)
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>technology isn't degrading in 40k >cybernetics aren't unreliable and require constant maintenance
Get the frick out of here. The AdMech literally don't turn off Ironstriders because they don't know how to turn them on anymore. There's thousands of examples of Imperial tech being in disarray and disrepair because developing new technology is borderline forbidden. >(hence why woman and men are not segregated by sex anywhere but SoB and astartes)
Need a codex citation for that. Up until recently Custodes were also explicitly men.
Sisters of Silences are also all female.
So basically you're making shit up at this point.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Need a codex citation for that. Up until recently Custodes were also explicitly men.
Anon if a codex doesn't explicity mention the all male or female nature of the org then its unisex. Its not a hard logic puzzle to solve.
Yes Sos and Sob are both all female. Same with the assassins temple that seem to all be gender specific. The all female assassins order kinda shows that using woman as a baseline stock does allow them to be superior to men with their gene-wizardy since they're fricking crazy and again astartes needing 'the best of the best genetic stock' is to show how corrupt and shit the gene seed has become over 10k years. its a point of weakness not pride
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Codex citation or nothing anon
So where's your codex citation for your claim that Custodes are selected from literal cripples, and baseline capabilities are irrelevant?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Yes they can and they would sacrifice millions of men and women to do it if someone tried to stop them.
We're not talking about the Imperial Guard. Stop being disingenuous here. If they're grabbing random people, it still doesn't make sense to start with someone who is physically inferior. Stop trying to pretend that basic logic doesn't exist, so you can justify your weird ideological attachment to shoving women into everything. Just enjoy the many female characters, models, and factions which already exist and are fluff-consistent
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Stop trying to pretend that basic logic doesn't exist
When will you stop pretending the Imperium has any base logic or logic at all? its is an illogical decayed dead empire that is so bloated and massive it hasn't realised its dead yet. Why would the imperium make normal logical decisions like you and I would? theres quadrillions of humans under its thumb, possbly hundreds of quadrillions if not more. Thats why they use women because theres nothing and no one stopping it. They're all meat and again 40k people/humans are evolving as a species to become psykers. Thats the REAL threat to humanity the emperor tried and failed to protect the human species from. women being physically inferior to the top 20-40% of men doesn't play into it.
Female custodes is fricking weird and dumb but stop pretending that is a problem because the imperium is too logical to do that when it is not.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Why would the imperium make normal logical decisions like you and I would
Because the individual people aren't moronic. If you've read the novels, they are perfectly intelligent people capable of reason and observation. The problems with the Imperium are due to its enormous bloat, the cultural momentum, the endless bureaucracy, and the fear of rocking the boat. Those things lead to massive inefficiencies, and problems not being corrected.
But NONE of that applies to a scientific military decision made by individuals. You may as well argue that it would be perfectly normal for them to poop their pants instead of using toilets, and to wear their shoes on their hands since they're bereft of logic and reasoning. How do people in this world even carry on their day to day lives? After all, they cannot possibly make individual decisions because apparently nobody has any mental faculties.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Because the individual people aren't moronic
uhhhhhhhh
you might wanna check that again, the average person in 40k is fricking moronic. Like horribly horribly stupid moronic, or mideavial peasant level of intelligent. Guardsmen are on average a bit smarter because they need them to be to do their job, but the average citizen is dumb.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Based on what? None of the novels I have read nor any of the codices seem to suggest this.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Based on a lot of the extra lore. Underhives are basically just clans of people who are supersticious as frick.
Battlefleet gothic lore also goes into this, the crews aboard ships literally live and die on their decks and dont have an understanding of whats beyond their walls.
For fricks sake, people worship technology because no one knows how to fix it, you were punished if you tried to modify your weapons in the guard.
The average person is moronic in 40k. For ever 1 educated person even at a base level, there are about 100 menials and slaves that are stupid. Hell even the concept of low and high gothic reinforce this idea, low gothic is basically gutter speak, high gothic is normal speech.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Based on a lot of the extra lore. Underhives are basically just clans of people who are supersticious as frick.
Battlefleet gothic lore also goes into this, the crews aboard ships literally live and die on their decks and dont have an understanding of whats beyond their walls.
For fricks sake, people worship technology because no one knows how to fix it, you were punished if you tried to modify your weapons in the guard.
The average person is moronic in 40k. For ever 1 educated person even at a base level, there are about 100 menials and slaves that are stupid. Hell even the concept of low and high gothic reinforce this idea, low gothic is basically gutter speak, high gothic is normal speech.
Reminder your novels and characters you are reading about are not the average person, they are the above average, no one is reading stories about people who work in the factories and bowls of forgeworlds/ships.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm specifically talking about side and background characters in novels like Eisenhorn/Cain. I'm pretty sure two guys drinking in a bar or guard conscripts are not elite highly-educated exceptions.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Correct, but thats what im getting at, for every one guy thats you know part of the elite, which even the "Elite" are not that educated by our standards, there are hundreds if not thousands of moronic dregs of society running around.
The vast majority of humans in the 40k universe are moronic.
You guys have my greatest sympathy, it is never pleasant when things you like get changed like this.
Eh i already went through my mourning process long ago, for me it was the 8th ed change, and the introduction of primaris, and the reduction of the statline with simplified rules.
I got into 40k for the rules that were present for 3rd - 7th, even during the shit show that was 6th and 7th, i liked it more then what it became 8th onwards.
40k was fatally wounded with 8th ed, it flat lined for me after psycic awakening. Anymore i just look at people either rooting for the maggots or the corpse at this point.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>(female cowardice) >In 40k where woman make up half the guard
Anon in 40k there is no real difference between men and woman for the vast majority of the human race. They're both just warm meat sacks to be used, destroyed and discarded for the Imperium
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>In 40k where woman make up half the guard
That's equally moronic and was never the case until nuGW started portraying it as such very recently.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>hmmm yes today i will form my army >i have fifty billion trillion people but much less equipment and transport space >will i recruit from the 25 billion trillion that are clearly more physically capable? >no, i will equally recruit from the frail wimps that struggle to walk up hills with ammo on their backs without fracturing their hips >this definitely won't get me executed by the administratum lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Dude, it's a fricking game. You're not getting executed irl for doing any of this shit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Especially when they could be used as baby factories.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So you're admitting 40K never followed your logic in the first place and expecting it to start doing so now is naive and misguided?
Just because 40k is absurd does not mean it cannot be immersive and believable. What is required for immersion and believability is for it to be coherent, consistent and have a logical basis for what is happening in it.
One of the main aspects of the Imperium is that it is dedicated to maintain constant and endless wars. For that to be possible, it needs a constant and endless supply of soldiers. For that to be possible, many if not most worlds must be dedicated to facilitating that constant and endless supply of soldiers; thus their social laws would, in the majority of cases, have women being little more than baby-factories.
If there are worlds with no conscription, then sure, we might see the women forced to toil as a nameless, genderless, personless number that is dedicated towards providing food, munitions or whatever else that is required to bolster the Emperor's endless armies.
Having women serving in the military though? No, or at least only an extreme exception. If you make it the norm, it undermines the entire nature of the Imperium. It makes it unbelievable. Can you still create the occasional mixed or even female only faction? Of course, but there needs to be a good reason for it. Previous good reasons have leant on the religious nature of the Imperium to justify sects of fanatical nuns, or as the prized personal assassins of a perverse mad tyrant. I'm sure there could be some other good reasons too, but we have not seen them in recent times.
>Having women serving in the military though? No, or at least only an extreme exception.
Well, they do, and in fact always have, and not in a James gaslighting way, so you're gonna need a different setting.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>in the first place
Women being any more than a small minority of the Imperial Guard is a very recent development in nulore you worthless zoomer homosexual.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>So you're admitting 40K never followed your logic in the first place and expecting it to start doing so now is naive and misguided?
Women being "10% of the Imperial Guard, mostly in rearline positions" was the lore for decades since it was the only comment ever made on the subject in the first Cain book. That actually made sense.
Of course that was written back in an era before everyone became pants-on-head moronic and determined to play pretend that women are exactly the same as men in every possible situation.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Women being "10% of the Imperial Guard, mostly in rearline positions" was the lore for decades since it was in one BL slop and not a codex
Anon we know you hate woman and think their only purpose is to be violently raped to create more men but thats not how 40k works.
Woman and men are equal, they are both utterly oppressed by the 'the cruelest and bloodiest regime imaginable' and seen as nothing more than an infinite resource to be used by the Imperium.
They're equals in the guard, the PDF ,arbites and every organisation besides space marines and Sob
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Anon we know you hate woman and think their only purpose is to be violently raped to create more men
Wow, you must have some crazy psychic abilities to know that he meant something completely different from what he said >Woman and men are equal,
Not physically, which matters when you're doing extremely difficult transmogrifications to create the perfect supersoldier.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Woman and men are equal, Not physically
They are in 40k, but I meant like rights wise and their treatment by their government in general.
But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts, both have theor own hyper elite military orders that are bascially super human. What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why should we change the status quo of marines and custodes being only men?
When there exist already female exclusive armies / units in lore.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because they have the writing capacity of a twitter OC page and the discrepancy of Chris Chan and his israeliteess gaslighter
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because the all female armies are unaugmented wimps. 40k is about supersoldiers.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Except they are not, they are still sv 3 and use the same arsenals as marines at this point.
They are super soldiers. There is no reason to inject female space marines.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
Because that the reasoning that SM/Mechanics/Guard/Chaos use for why their troops are majority(If not all) are male.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Because that the reasoning that SM/Mechanics/Guard/Chaos use for why their troops are majority(If not all) are male.
Thats your headcanon anon (besides space marines/ CSM)
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's not really
Majority of the guard are men and mechanics use males for their troops
It doesn't mean that there arn't any all female units in the guard
I'm pretty sure one of the Ciaphas Cain books had all female regiment that combined with a all male regiment
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The Cain books even had a couple of dyke Imperial Guard iirc.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>They are in 40k, but I meant like rights wise and their treatment by their government in general.
That's not true at all. Governments vary from planet to planet, system to system. Some human worlds aren't even under the control of the wider Imperium. >What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
What's the obsession with pushing to this political nonsense into the setting at the expense of established lore?
Therefore, it falls upon us men to adapt and re-define the concept of masculinity. And, taking a page out of the feminists' playbook, we must understand that in the wax and wane of history's meandering rivers, masculinity must be constantly redefining itself the same way the present is always in a state of change. Men are physically strong and capable of great violence, indeed. Yet it behooves us as Men to overcome our baser natures. And it is this capacity of choice to overcome and learn how to overcome that separates us from the base claws and teeth of nature.
Jesus you own over 50 fedoras, don't you...
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts
But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts
The stats have to encompass a scale that starts at floating roombas and ends at 100-foot tall war mechs. Humans are somewhere between an Ork and a Drone. Outside of rare exceptions like Marbo, humans are all STR 3.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Dude, that mostly because its INCREADBLY weird to make a near identical stat block just so a unit has 1 less strength
your models are whatever you want them to be anon! Femarines are canon if its your personal models. All male Sob and Sos are canon if they're your models. Im talking about the overarching lore of the imperium.
Are you asking why men and woman are equally oppressed in 40k is canon? Uh its because of this line in every piece of 40k ficiton ever printed >To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
Its worse than any regime or tyranny that has ever come before that kills its people on mass on a scale never before seen.
So your rebuttal is that it is head cannon?
Anyway this conversation is done
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No my rebuttal is that what I said has been CANON since rogue trader you fricking moron. The conversation is done because you realised you lost. >It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
It is so unreasonable shit to be alive in m41 gender specific discrimination is impossible because one gender cant be treated any worse than the other because they're both treated as badly as possible
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It is so unreasonable shit to be alive in m41 gender specific discrimination is impossible because one gender cant be treated any worse than the other because they're both treated as badly as possible >Life of a factory worker on a hive world is exactly the same as life on Commoragh for a captured human.
You're moronic.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Dude, that mostly because its INCREADBLY weird to make a near identical stat block just so a unit has 1 less strength
That's my point. It's nonsense to pretend the stat lines being equal are meant to account for differences within that group. A human is STR 3 because they're weaker than a Space Marine and stronger than a Tau drone. That encompasses both teenagers and bodybuilders.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>DA AUFORITIES TREAT DEM AS EQUALZZZ CUZ GRIMDARK
Okay.
Where are the six year old arbites.
Show me the drop trooper regiment of down syndrome sufferers.
Because that's no less moronic than using women for the job. Which according to you, no one in the imperium would ever care about.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
In the real world, any healthy 15 yo male, can destroy any woman on the planet.
Any setting that doesn't follow that simple rule of male physical supremacy, become a farce, like american comics.
May no one count rivets ever again in a setting where female custodes or marines exist. Yes, my 5th edition skinks are totally legal crimson terminator, anti scalie bigot.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
isnt the point of 40k that the galaxy is so fricked everyone needs to fight? Are you going to complain about Cadia using women too?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes, but custards aren't incidental cannon fodder.
His point seems quite relevant to me. There aren't many women dying in Ukraine right now. Why should 40k soldiers have so many more women, then?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anon, 40k isn't real. IRL logic doesn't apply to its fictional world.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>men and and women are exactly the same and completely interchangeable cuz ummmmmm we said so! >but noblewomen still wear frilly dresses >and men still compete for love >and women still get pregnant >and basically every other social norm between men & women that are a direct result of their physical differences remains in place >buuuut women just happen to be exactly as physically capable as men >just cuz
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And why is this a problem now?
At this point your not even sperging about the female Custodes, just the idea of women soldiers in general.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
A relatively tiny group of religious fanatics based on nuns, who use power-of-money armour and weapons to negate any physical deficiencies, does not dramatically subvert gender roles and the entire human fricking race the same way as >all men and women have the exact same physical capabilities
does
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>custodes and space marines break all possible laws of physics >I sleep >women appear on stage >Real shit
I'm so tired of being stuck between two camps of hysterical idiots, modern internet makes me wish for a nuclear winter. NOW.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nuclear winter was literal Soviet propaganda anon. Learn to live in the real world that exists now instead of hoping for apocalyptic fantasies.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Doesn't care. Modern civilization is a mistake and needs a reboot. And it will happen sooner or later because history is cyclical, and all empires fall sooner or later because hedonism is rotting them from the inside. West is no different from its predecessors, sooner or later West will fall under the onslaught of barbarian hordes. And this is not a fantasy, but a fact proven by history.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>custodes and space marines break all possible laws of physics
Almost every player yells at how much wankery that the space marines get
No one "sleeps" on that besides SM fan boys
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>women aren't the same as men and shouldn't be portrayed as such in every single fictional story >WOWWWWW FRICKING HYSTERICAL!!!!
Just kys instead of wanting to take us with you, indoctrinated homosexual.
Yelling at women seems cruel, it doesn't fix any behavior, they just shrivel and hope that they don't get hit. It feels like yelling at a child.
Yelling at men is kind of normal.
>but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well
That's exactly the problem here from a purely logical perspective. GW is still fricking garbage with numbers. If Custodes are his envisioned future for humanity then he would make them fertile, no? Then it stands to reason that Custodes should be the dominant force in the galaxy by now if women were included in the first 10,000?
Either custodes couldn't be made fertile, thus the Custodes are still an imperfection of the human form honestly this isn't THAT bad, but is still a major blemish to the custodes.
Or custodes are fertile, but have to have some convoluted handwave for why they aren't the dominant form of humanity. Either custodes give birth to normal humans, which is weird, or custodes attrition rates are much higher, which makes custodes suck, or increasing numbers of custodes are doing frick and all for thousands of years, which is moronic, or custodes CAN breed, but merely choose not to, which is double fricking moronic.
I'm not even opposed to the idea on principle if there's an elegant solution for it, but if there is I'm not seeing it. There's no way to do this without making the custodes either ludicrously incompetent, or else sabatoging the whole "perfect ideal of humanity" thing. That's the least awkward way of doing it, could even out some angst in the custodian psyche that they STILL aren't quite perfect, but, that's still awkward
>Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity
They aren't by any stretch of the imagination. It's still a non issue, the banana gang are creations made for a purpose, this being a highly militarized cohort that is slaved to his will.
It's already answered multiple times in this thread. They are made from the SONS of Terran nobility. They are WARRIORS and need to be the BEST POSSIBLE, so they are all male, because it is simply a fact that men make better warriors. It literally isn't disputable that they are, even the feminists will screech if you punch a b***h because womyn are inherently physically weaker.
nta but aren't custodes supposed to be tailored made to the idealized standards of the emperor? It's not like space marines who have geneseed shoved into them to make them haphazard factory made supersoliders. So in theory shouldn't femCustodes would be a slightly individualized 5-star meal like how other custodes are compared to the standardized meal prep that are space marines?
Plus they are made from a recruiting pool of children under five. Would their gender really matter at that point, if Big E is just gonna remake them at the molecular level? At least compared to space marines who have geneseed implanted into mostly preteens and teenagers for the most part.
>but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no?
I don't know how many times it has to be said, but marines, custodes, whatever special force the emperor made, were all tools to safeguard humanity's evolution to a potent psyker race in safety. Custodes aren't the future for humanity.
You fricked it by caring about what was canon
You fricked it by obsessing over lore
You fricked it by tolerating their bad business practice
You fricked it by being nogames and playing with grey models
You made it bad enough that they saw an entrypoint
The true gatekeepers make the quality too high for it to seem approachable
Your penance is historicals, where you will learn something, meet other Chuds and preserve European military glory
>Warhammer 40K was always shit.
It is, it's riggid and one dimensional. In the end i only liked it because big bulky cool space knights dudes in power armor.
It's been shit since primaris were a thing. Before that it was fine in spite of the odd bit of cringe. Since primaris, it's been bland and cringe all the way.
my wife seems thrilled about femstodes, but not cause she wants to play 40k
when I brought up that "I guess they kind of soft-added female space marines now" her reaction was like "OH I guess we're getting out of 40k now!" She looked so goddamn happy. She didn't even let me explain either. She just thinks it means I'll never play warhammer again because I've said before if they add "official" femarines in lore, I'll probably disassociate with the setting. To her it just means I'm not going to go play anymore or buy another model.
Like I get it. The designs are ugly. Its expensive. The books read like they're for children. The models take up space and need their own desk for painting, etc. But like, shit is fun. Now she's holding me to my word and I don't know what to do with my weekends.
>Now she's holding me to my word and I don't know what to do with my weekends.
You don't have to buy any of the new shit, anon.
Oldhammer is just as timeless as ever
I rarely do buy new shit, I still play my 2e csm from early childhood. IMO I think thats why GW is hard for making femarines. They don't really want old fans meandering around with their oldschool standards, they want to flush us out and make 40k less bleak, more walmart friendly with more attractive heroes crusading around without moral ambiguity
I don't even mind femarines. If someone had them on the table I'd think they were cool. I just don't want the in-universe lore being changed for real-life trending politics
So your wife has contempt for your hobby - something that makes you happy. I'd find that a lot more concerning than whatever GW is doing.
she's a weeb. She has thinly-veiled contempt for most western properties or games I play. I've tried to be like "haha yeah its dumb but I mean I think 40k isn't a bad setting and gets about as much attention as it deserves" but to her its just this setting about these chunky guys who just fight and then get pumped for the next battle. I blame some of the games. She watched me play some of Darktide and it was embarrassing for me because it mostly just confirmed what she thinks
If GW wanted female fans, they are doing all of the things females don't fricking care about, and nothing that they would actually like.The female characters they do add have buttfrick ugly faces. And the price. If GW actually gave a turd about inclusivity, they'd price things reasonably. Units are priced at levels for obsessive fanboys, not for black/female/whatever people they pretend to care about.
>she's a weeb. She has thinly-veiled contempt for most western properties or games I play
This does not strike me as very healthy. I'm sure she'd wouldn't be terribly pleased if you acted the same all the time.
to be very fricking clear: I don't mind if someone put female heads and made up their own lore about why their custom chapter girls had a mutated geneseed or some strange reason they have (very rare) femarines. I just don't want them making a lore update to change the very way space marine society exists for IRL reasons. That kills the setting for me, but I'd never feel irked if someone made their own. Honestly I should have quit when they made Primaris in hindsight.
You might want to give this a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTe9cAdLY14
"Priestess in the Church by CS Lewis"
He argues among other things that the inherent differences in man and woman project an understanding or an essence onto those things which they are attached to. God the 'Father' might not have a gender in the way that we as humans do, and yet Him being understood in Masculine language confers a markedly different understanding relative to how a Goddess would be understood.
Christianity is by nature Patriarchal, and our understanding of the faith, its adherents, its workings and its manifestation is linked to that. It would cease to be Christianity as we know if we started referring to 'God the Father' as a woman, or if we allowed women to be Priestesses, to stand at the head of the congregation and preach to them. It would be unrecognisable as the Christianity we know today.
It is just so with 40k. I remember watching the Darktide trailers where they had some Asian woman as the 'Zealot'. It just did not feel like 40k with that. It should have been an elderly Englishman or German, perhaps even a Spaniard, screaming about purging filth in the name of the Emperor. It harkens back to the great Witch Hunters of England and Germany, perhaps even to the Spanish Inquisition. A sense of Zealotry blended with duty and a certainty of purpose.
An Asian woman trying to ape their behaviour just does not feel right. It has none of the connection to Christianity, to the witch hunters, to the inquisition; to real history, real events and a real 'essence' which was understood by those who enjoyed the fantastical re-imagining of them.
I feel a similar thing has been done with much of Warhammer. They have consistently changed the tone and feel of the universe to the point where it is barely recognisable to me as a fan from 20+ years ago.
There's space for people's made-up factions in the setting; but they cannot change the foundation, and they have.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I think it's that when it comes to games (western comics and other things), people don't take them seriously. They're corporate products. We all play games, but roughly half of the people who do are just wanting to waste time.
Game of Thrones has tons of female fans, and they all accept that the Nights Watch is a male-only faction. No one is asking for that to be changed, or demanding GRRM adjust the lore in his next novel. It they changed that, it would immediately make the rest of the work start to lose believably and be uninteresting.
People just don't take the settings within games as something that needs integrity. Some do, but there's enough people out there who view games as something to waste time with to invalidate that. If you DO care, they'll try to shame you for it but they can't do that with books because we have a long history of resisting censorship when it comes to print. Maybe we WILL start censoring books in the future but atleast not yet.
Female Astartes also kind of misses the point of the Marines. They're supposed to be a satirical take on "boys club" mentality. Any one with even slight media literacy could tell that it's not a coincidence that becoming an Astartes involves implanting another man's seed inside you and undergoing a bunch of physical pain and large chance of death to become God's pinnacle of manhood.
Everyone wanting female Space Marines just doesn't get this.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>They're supposed to be a satirical take on "boys club" mentality.
I disagree. That's a big claim to make. They're a fraternal order of zealous warrior-monks (but in space). If you can't appreciate that for what it is, it suggests some weird post-modern culture war problem with you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>They're a fraternal order of zealous warrior-monks (but in space).
That's what I said, boys club mentality.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If you can't tell the distinction, you have had your brain rotted by post-modernism
Looking forward to reading your blog post about how your week wife that has nothing but contempt for you and what makes you happy tricks you into a MMF polycule then divorces you.
>she's a weeb.
homie that's no excuse to dislike things your spouse enjoys that much. My wife is a weeb who doesn't care for Western shit, and even though she's not a fan of Warhammer she's not gonna have contempt over it- like despite her having no interest in the setting she still likes to see what I can paint because she can appreciate art even if it's not to her taste.
Frick, there's even some bits and pieces she even appreciates despite not liking the game. I'm a DAgay and I jokingly suggested we should name the kid we're having Lion El' if it's a boy, and she's like 'that's actually a pretty neat name I like that.'
>she's a weeb. She has thinly-veiled contempt for most western properties or games I play. I've tried to be like "haha yeah its dumb but I mean I think 40k isn't a bad setting and gets about as much attention as it deserves" but to her its just this setting about these chunky guys who just fight and then get pumped for the next battle.
she sounds based, gimme her number when you get divorced
>its just this setting about these chunky guys who just fight and then get pumped for the next battle
lmao this is 100% correct though
Female Custodes makes no sense. Even if the people are modified or whatever, for the same reason that shoving females into any elite warrior caste makes sense; women are physically weaker than men. If you're taking the best of the best and the strongest of the strong to make elite warriors, you don't start out with someone that has half the strength/speed of the other potential inductees. It defies logic and is very very obviously just pandering to the woke DEI crowd for brownie points.
yeah it's not wrong at all, but there is cool stuff in the setting
it's not just that women are weaker, but that these genetically created weapons weren't made to replace humans. Making both sexes kind of implies that: They're just better versions of humans and should replace them, which I think is the opposite of what the Emperor wanted
>They're just better versions of humans and should replace them, which I think is the opposite of what the Emperor wanted
It is the oppostie of what he wanted.
Space marines and custodes were meant to be the idea of what humans could eventually be, not what they should be. They were created because they were needed to establish the IoM.
In lore also female and male space marines would be bad because it makes for the plot point of, what if marines just decided frick it, we will reproduce and make Astarte's from birth, that would make it so they are a replacement for humans which is not the goal.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>In lore also female and male space marines would be bad because it makes for the plot point of, what if marines just decided frick it, we will reproduce and make Astarte's from birth, that would make it so they are a replacement for humans which is not the goal.
I believe space marines are sterile. The process makes them incapable of reproduction.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
They are sterile, but it opens up the conversation for that to happen, imagine if fricking fabius decided lol they can frick now.
Or hell even cawl decided their bits work now since apparently thats all it takes.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
They're not, some space wolf frick because they are failure at being fighting monks.
One of their character has fathered many bastard.
Their psycho endoctrinment is supposed to replace any sexual pulse with obediance, devotion and ultra violence.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Emperor or Malcador have never said that all-male marines are that way because they shouldn't replace humans. Because that is not the reason. They can replace normies effectively by turning mortals into breeding slaves for initiates or daemonculabas and indeed Chaos Marines do things like that.
Marines are all male because Primarchs are all male and Primarchs are all male because Emps did not listen to Malcador and wanted a brotherhood. Warrior lodges and Heresy showed how that turned out.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>le black library retcon from long nosed fetishists.
If it wasn't in the 3rd edition at the latest, it doesn't exist.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>In lore also female and male space marines would be bad because it makes for the plot point of, what if marines just decided frick it, we will reproduce and make Astarte's from birth, that would make it so they are a replacement for humans which is not the goal.
I believe space marines are sterile. The process makes them incapable of reproduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a point of the Heresy that Horus just said "frick it, we Man now"?
I dont know about you, but giving the rest of the Imperium more reason to On Sight the Astartes is a pretty fricking cool development.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a point of the Heresy that Horus just said "frick it, we Man now"?
No basically the reason the HH came to be was because Chaos told and convinced horus that the emperor was a dick and that he was just a tool for his own design and that once horus and his brothers fulfilled their purpose they would be disposed of, just like the thunder warriors were.
Horus did not like this because he still loved his sons and his brothers and did not like that they wre just seen as tools. So he rebelled basically saying "We will all be free to make our own choices and if we cant be, we let the galaxy burn."
It was not about them replacing humans, it was about htem being free from his fathers control.
IRONICALLY, Cawl ended up proving horus and chaos was right all along since the primaras basically confirmed what chaos said, space marines and primarchs are just tools waiting to be replaced.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Horus was possessed by chaos, so he wasn't really forming a coherent logical chain to what he hoped to achieve. More specifically, he was given visions by chaos (maybe false, maybe true - who knows) of a future where the Emperor discards like trash the Primarchs and the Astartes legions once they've done their job.
Horus felt betrayed and at the same time was given revelations to the benevolent sides of the Chaos Gods. This mixed with Horus' prideful nature pushed him over the edge.
While dying the chaos-taint left him and he was remorseful for his action.
Tourist here. I used to love Warhammer and half followed it for years since, played the hell out of pretty much all the video games that came out for it too.
Back when I was actually invested in the TT Necrons were still metal zombies of silence and death, there were no Primaris marines, and Grey Knights were seen as a lame Space Marine 2.0 (similar to Primaris I guess). I've semi-followed along with the outrages, hated the re-branding of of Necrons, hated Grey Knights, hated Primaris, hated them actually writing the legendary Primarchs at all (and especially as moronic teenagers; though I did like Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames; Flight of the Eisenstein and Fulgrim were also pretty good books).
Now, why does everyone care about Custodes? They were the elite golden guard of the Golden Throne, right? Are they now the Space Marines V.4.0 (GK2.0. Primaris3.0, Custodes4.0)? Or are they still some largely irrelevant ceremonial guard who do piss all because they stay in the most heavily defended part of the most heavily defend planet in the most heavily defender system? ... And that one time where they did have to fight during the Horus Heresy they did absolutely nothing implying they are super useless?
Why does everyone care about this foot note in 40k? Or did they become bigger than that? I don't follow the lore that closely, but I've pretty much never heard anything about the Custodes and don't get the outrage. Please explain for an ignorant tourist.
Hello there, I will explain a bit. Custodes were basically "Better" space marines way before Primaris came around. The special thing about them is that even though they are gene modified they are pretty much all natural (Yeah explain that shit). Basically if a Space Marine is basically god steroids then Custodes is just Baki character level of bullshit. Now, think about that and try to fit it onto a woman, now realize that Space Marines are basically steroids and worse custodes. Pretty much its a slippery slope if you can do it with natural bodies to make a woman custodes (Even though we got sisters of silence) then why not femarines? Pretty much hate it cause its GW wanting to add femarines but doing it via the boiling a frog method realizing that not many people play custodes and can just slap some tit armor onto the custodes models and because there aren't many models for custodes (about 20 models but like 8 with different poses and stuff).
Sounds like male Custodes don't make any sense either. How can a regular human be of similar or even greater ability than the Emperor's Finest Space Marines?
Are they supposed to be weird shaman-suicide-ritual-born super humans like lesser Emperors? I do not see how they could possibly be greater than Space Marines unless it was some BS like that. If it is that, I just want to say that lore is moronic and while I liked it as a potential mythical explanation, I liked it being one of many 'conspiracy theories' to explain the Emperor, a mythical beginning for him; and I do not like the idea of it becoming an established practice. Still, if it is that, I suppose it makes sense and could work even for women.
>How can a regular human be of similar or even greater ability than the Emperor's Finest Space Marines
They supposedly do some kind of cellular surgery. The reason it is not used for marines is because there is a much slimmer rate of survival, it is more costly, requires way more skill, and each is custom tailored. Compared to space marines slapping organs that reproduce inside other marines and require much less intensive treatment and work and it's pretty clear why marines are way more common
See that's already ruining the lore on multiple levels. The idea that other people could make a 'better' version of what the Emperor did takes away from the whole point of the Emperor as the stand-in for God, the Creator. The idea that Primaris are improved versions, or that Custodes are improved versions is stupid. Grey Knights were right on the line, because the OP nonsense with them was more to do with them having had insane experiences, and then lots more training, and then access to even better-er weapons than the Space Marines. It was stupid, but at least it kind of played by the same rules as the rest of the setting.
There's also something undesirable in having a 'cleaner' way to genetically enhance someone. 40k was always gloriously 'blocky' and 'angular', and that was more than just an aesthetic choice. It implied a sort of bulky, make-shift, pile-on approach to technology. No lean and sheek Asiatic or 'Tau' creations here; just industrial monstrosities more akin to the Orks, just with a religious overtone. The Space Marines being giant, hulking, multi-hearted barely-humans fit with the theme. It fit with the half mechanical tech-priests, with the mostly mechanical abominations that were techpriests; even with the regular citizens they'd give us glimpses of in the old-art, where scribes would have printers-fused to their lower-lips so that they could print off psalms of praise to the Emperor while they spoke it. It was gloriously inconvenient and unnatural.
This vision of the Custodes you have given me just does not fit. I hate it. Consider me a hater, not just of female Custodes, but of the Custodes in general.
The emperor made custodes though.
Primaris are dumb since a random made them, Grey Knights I have the same opinion as you.
Custodes isn't more "clean" it is just way more intensive and thus produces a better result, it is also less standardized
The Emperor made the Custodes too. They were supposed to be his friends and councilors and guardians.
Granted them being playable is moronic. They were supposed to be his guards, now having some of them participate in random wars makes no sense. Just be Space Marines to be elite warriors.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Interesting. Yeah, I suppose it sort of makes sense to have some 'shadowy circle of advisors who are beyond our mere human ability', but they should have remained absolutely miniscule in number, and had essentially no presence outside of harrowing portrayals of lowly mortans approaching the Golden Throne.
They should not even be emissaries, diplomats or people sent along as a sign of authority. That falls to either Inquisitors or some High Lord of a system.
If Custodes are supposed to be a military unit, then it entirely nullifies the purpose of the Space Marines as the elite of the elite who are small in number and are sent to the most pivotal battle-fields where the Imperium absolutely MUST win. Having an even elite-er force who are saved for even more pivotal-er scenarios is idiotic. It's having the same thing twice.
I could be okay with Custodes if they were either JUST the personal body guard of the Golden Throne and there are like 12-300 of them, or if they were some shadow-advisory council that basically advocate on behalf of the Emperor to the High Lords of Terra. Either way they would be so far beyond the stations of 99.999999% of the human race as to be almost irrelevant to any story unless its as additional theatre dressing to hallowed events on Terra.
Making them a playable faction has to be one of the most moronic ideas among the great slew of moronic ideas that GW have had in the last 2 decades.
I'm not deep into the lore, but has there been a trend of shitting on the emperor in recent books, or has that always been a thing? Like stuff I hear about the Emperor is that he is basically a fricking butthole. He's portrayed that way from excerpt I've seen posted.
Also I've seen it implied in certain places that Emperor wasn't even that good at his job. People imply marines are basically unfinished products and Belisarius Cawl could have done a better job. There's this general sense of shitting on the Emperor. Has it always been that way or is that a new undercurrent being pushed by the newer books/writers?
If I remember correctly:
Marines were always a flawed product meant for mass manufacture.
Primaris are supposed to be the fix for the marines. Marines 2.0.
Grey knights were made from the emperor's gene seed.
Custodes are supposed to be their own bespoke perfect gene seed with all the bells and whistles.
Custodes are handcrafted from the sons of the terran noble families, because these families are genetically the purest.
The process was not developped for females, it will means death.
If they break this lore, then there is no lore anymore because nothing is sacred.
I think it's that when it comes to games (western comics and other things), people don't take them seriously. They're corporate products. We all play games, but roughly half of the people who do are just wanting to waste time.
Game of Thrones has tons of female fans, and they all accept that the Nights Watch is a male-only faction. No one is asking for that to be changed, or demanding GRRM adjust the lore in his next novel. It they changed that, it would immediately make the rest of the work start to lose believably and be uninteresting.
People just don't take the settings within games as something that needs integrity. Some do, but there's enough people out there who view games as something to waste time with to invalidate that. If you DO care, they'll try to shame you for it but they can't do that with books because we have a long history of resisting censorship when it comes to print. Maybe we WILL start censoring books in the future but atleast not yet.
>they all accept that the Nights Watch is a male-only faction.
Because they exist to mock celibate men, it's a punishment, you missed the author intent: he deeply vomit european culture and honor, he can't stand any ounce of it.
The Emperor's characterization is kind of inconsistent and he's made to be intentionally vague in his motivations.
>eople imply marines are basically unfinished products and Belisarius Cawl could have done a better job.
They were a rush job because the Emperor wanted to conquer the galaxy quickly. Cawl couldn't do a "better job" but after ten thousand years of studying the marines he was able to slightly improve them, that's it. I think people hardcore overreact on the Cawl thing.
The Custodes are still the cream of the crop in terms of transhumans and nothing anything Cawl has done has come close to them.
40k is a setting where the more writers are allowed to steal the mystique from events, the worse it gets.
And that agenda would be?
Diversity/inclusivity. Now they can be pursuing diversity for a number of reasons - because they genuinely and naively believe in it, because they know it causes societies to become dysfunctional for their own benefit (killing things like unions/voting for example), because they think it will attract a wider audience, because they want that sweet blackrock money, because they have a huge inferiority complex, the reasons are endless and it also depends on the position of the person in charge. What doesn't change is that people have a sixth sense that tells them "this feels unnatural, doesn't make sense, and feels hamfisted in"
>not many people play custodes
another tourist here (albeit i've been loregayging a little) but isn't that because custodes's jobs are to guarding the emperor's palace until gulliman think it would be a waste for someone as strong as them to be turtling around? and that led to few if not almost no one would play as custodes?
>Why does everyone care about this foot note in 40k?
it opens gate for chaos; after this there is no constant, every single thing can be changed into everything, lore, logic or fan base aside, basically Tzeentch win
It's not even really about the female custodes it's that the company has given in to a demographic of people who hate Warhammer, hate the player base, don't play the game, and now they run things.
The whole thing is a deliberate flex against Space Marines.
homosexuals and trannies have been crying for years about >abloo hoo we deserve female space marines!!!!
And never get them because space marines have such powerful cultural inertia within the fandom.
This makes the aforementioned homosexuals seethe. Because the posterboy best-of-the-best more elite warrior brotherhood is all-male.
They couldn't c**tify the Space Marines, so naturally they set their sights on the only warrior institution that's actually better than them, the Adeptus Custodes.
The whole thing is nothing more than a spiteful "haha!" to the people that don't want female space marines >o-okay sure so the marines are all male... >but custodes are EVEN BETTER than marines and THEY DO HAVE WHEMYN! >HAHAH SUCK IT CHUDS! WARRIOR GRRRRRRLZ ARE BETTER THAN YOUR SILLY ALL-MALE MARINES!
That's it. It's a pissy spiteful dig.
Warhammer 40k was shit in the sense that McDonalds is shit. No one with half a brain thinks its the best out there, but nothing hits like a big mac can when you want one, or their shitty fries.
The problem now is 40k is jumping the shark here and the quality of their product dose not make up for this bullshit.
I finally understand that old boomer attitude. Between Navy Breachers, Kill Team, Knight Titans, Solar Auxilia in plastic, the Skitarii Marshal model... "Frick you, I got mine." The company can collapse or not, for all I mind.
>was always shit
Not anymore since Chuds Wokeshop officially confirmed that femstodes are canon which means all the custodes frick ups/loses in lore are because of them being worthless creations
I think the worst part about this, and to me the thing thats pissing me the most off about it is the insane amount of gaslighting GW is doing.
"There have always been female custodes"
No there have fricking not been, at all. If they would just say, we are adding them for reason xyz, i would still hate it, but them gaslighting like this is fricking insane.
Recons like making genestealers into tyrannids and Necrons into a ancient robotic race are what I would say "Good" retcons.
The reason why they are "Good" is because they expand the faction giving them more depth.
Retcons like making the banana boys having banana girls don't expand on it at all.
If you look up at the thread you keep seeing people say that they will look the same to their male counterpart so why does it matter.
The reason why this matters is because they are only doing to add women, they are not making them a super special experimental solder for the custards. They are simply saying that some of the banana boys are also banana girls.
Oldcrons were flesh made metal slaves to star gods who would appear from seemingly nowhere to harvest lives to feed said star gods after they developed a taste for souls instead of suns.
Newcrons are just tomb kings in space.
Yes, but custards aren't incidental cannon fodder.
>The universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...
Anon Custard guard are just as worthless and expendable as anyone else, thats why they're an army. People give them more vbalue than their worth due to their connection to the dead emperor but really, at the end of the day they could all die and nothing changes.
Space Marines are knights in shining armor in space.
They celebrate a masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
They are absolutely a celebration of masculinity.
You've missed the point of 40k, read the older material and reflect on your mistake
Pulp literature, which is what WH lore amounts to, requires familiar archetypes to retain verisimilitude. Women do not inhabit the archetype the Custodes represent.
If any archetype is solely for men, it is the capacity for violence and ability to tank it. Hence any elite fighting force that exemplifies dishing and taking it should be men unless there is good reason for it, eg: the fighting is not done physically, or is done by proxy.
Women as fighters inhabit other archetypes, such as faith in ideology, tenacity, enforcers of orthodoxy, or as means of representing desperation in defense.
These archetypes might be reductive, but that's what they're for. It's visual shorthand, and an abstraction of core ideals. Hence, the desire to change it, and the resistance to it. Changing it reflects a change in the core ideals.
I'm no Warhammergay beyond vidya, at least since leaving secondary education, so this isn't my fight. I do hope you get a successful boycott going.
Space Marines are knights in shining armor in space.
They celebrate a masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
They are absolutely a celebration of masculinity.
>Which is an odd thing to be mad about.
Seems like a fairly sensible thing to be mad about, a company rejecting reality and embracing delusion for a quick buck.
Masculinity can not be celebrated.
Men only spaces can not exist.
Even the concept of a man is completely amorphous.
Yet another way that I am shit on for being a man.
Ohhhh, I get it. Your daddy never taught you to work it out for yourselves, so you're still clinging to outdated concepts of masculinity others picked for you rather than putting the work in to figure out what a Man is made of once you take away the violence and self-destructive idealizations propped up by rich buttholes who just want you to die in a war.
I'm sorry the modern world has trampled you so. But it's also on you to figure out what means anything to you. I'm doubly sorry you place your values in a for-profit fiction.
It's a work in progress of life testing you and you testing yourself every day through your choices trying real hard not to put yourself before your kin. It's leading from the front and setting an example of humility, compassion, and strength to those before you. Oh, and knowing how to roll with the punches.
Exactly, the capacity for violence. Men are the self-sacrificial sex, who take on the role of violence and risk giver and taker. The idealistic standard is to put that to use for the betterment of you kin, and the negative, for their detriment. The neutral state is merely violence.
Exactly, the core ideals are being changed.
What is the essence of a man if not violence? It's the one thing men are built for, and it is the basis of men's status in society. It is why men are expendable, why women demand sex-segregated spaces, why men live shorter and more violent lives, etc. It's a value-neutral thing, neither to be celebrated nor denigrated. It is what *is*, rather than what *ought*. No amount of social engineering can change that base reality, only alienate men from it. And that's, really, what's happening here. Alienating men out of a sense of what ought to be.
Besides there being other aspects of masculinity, you're conflating violence with dominance.
Dominance can include but is not limited to the use of or propensity for violence
>you're conflating violence with dominance.
No I'm not, you are. Being domineering is one use of men's violence, sure. Men use their capacity for violence to do other things, however, and furthermore they do it at other's behest. The base state of a man is simply violence, the ideal is where that capacity is directed.
Therefore, it falls upon us men to adapt and re-define the concept of masculinity. And, taking a page out of the feminists' playbook, we must understand that in the wax and wane of history's meandering rivers, masculinity must be constantly redefining itself the same way the present is always in a state of change. Men are physically strong and capable of great violence, indeed. Yet it behooves us as Men to overcome our baser natures. And it is this capacity of choice to overcome and learn how to overcome that separates us from the base claws and teeth of nature.
Again, you are confusing what is with what ought to be. You are right that the Ideal Man puts his capacity for violence to use in the betterment of others, but a man that does not do that isn't acting unlike men do. The essence of a thing is not the ideal representation, it is what is in common with the best and worst of it.
Yes, violence is indeed of Men. The responsibility of the Men is to do better with that. What is is what is. The point of living is to grow beyond and within that. It's a scale that must be balanced and nurtured constantly, for it is the weight of the world pushing down on either end every day until your last breath.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Absolutely. Hence, the self sacrifice of men as instruments of violence on behalf of others and for an ideology they truly believe is a common archetype, which is why Custodes and Astartes should be men.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Oh, I don't much care about that. Astartes are as removed from Men as a labradoodle is from a wolf. The color of their armor is just telling me where to aim.
Therefore, it falls upon us men to adapt and re-define the concept of masculinity. And, taking a page out of the feminists' playbook, we must understand that in the wax and wane of history's meandering rivers, masculinity must be constantly redefining itself the same way the present is always in a state of change. Men are physically strong and capable of great violence, indeed. Yet it behooves us as Men to overcome our baser natures. And it is this capacity of choice to overcome and learn how to overcome that separates us from the base claws and teeth of nature.
>clinging to outdated concepts of masculinity others picked for you
Social prescriptivist >propped up by rich buttholes
Commie homosexual
Opinion disregarded
Nta or any of these chuds but you're not only wrong, you're also a moron and should have a nice day for making the handful of non-reactionaries in the hobby look bad.
You're unintelligently talking about grammatical prescriptivism. What that moron was talking about was 'Universal Prescriptivism' which is a half-baked ethical philosophy that not many people actually understand.
Apologies for my ignorance, I'm heavily unaware of current era culture war twitter schizopolitik. And I'd like to keep it that way.
Also, go frick your uncle, I'm too busy fondling your mother to kill myself.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
don't worry moron you'll probably trip in front of a moving car or something in the near future, if you're too stupid to google simple concepts before posting about them.
Ah, beauty. Finally getting rid of chuds. With that said, yes. It was a parody of fantasy/scyfy. That was the point. It was never serious, never was supposed to be, and it was a giant joke created from being unable to sell D&D minis. Warhammer took the tropes and went up to 11. Dwarves keep grudges? Sure, let's have them have a book of grudges. Badass space marines? Yep, genetically engineered monsters. Militant atheism? Literally, but also taking the religious organization. Hypocrisy of the highest level at the highest points? Yep.
But then between the late 90s and early 2000s some idiots started taking it seriously. Just fricking enjoy the parody.
>Finally getting rid of chuds
centrist libs like you are no better and we're going to frick with you just as hard in the coming years
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I might die stupid, but I sure as shit ain't ever dying as angry as you, bud :^)
Ah, beauty. Finally getting rid of chuds. With that said, yes. It was a parody of fantasy/scyfy. That was the point. It was never serious, never was supposed to be, and it was a giant joke created from being unable to sell D&D minis. Warhammer took the tropes and went up to 11. Dwarves keep grudges? Sure, let's have them have a book of grudges. Badass space marines? Yep, genetically engineered monsters. Militant atheism? Literally, but also taking the religious organization. Hypocrisy of the highest level at the highest points? Yep.
But then between the late 90s and early 2000s some idiots started taking it seriously. Just fricking enjoy the parody.
Shit is basically a Michael Moorwiener and Nemesis the Warlock crossover with the heavy metal aesthetic taken up to 11 and adding additional ripoffs of whatever the developers were fans of at the moment like Judge Dredd.
>Who cares if it makes sense or maintains verisimilitude? You're not supposed to care about it at all. And that's why I am arguing to support this particular version of the setting
If you don't care, then frick off and stop trying to shit on people who are invested in the setting or a mediocre wargame
If you can make a perfect female without all the "bad" stuff that actually makes a women(i.e. shit tests, whoring, feelings, etc. A perfect human with a womb...then what the frick is Fabius Bile even bothering with?
This just completely invalidates a major storyline they had for a Major character. His "new men" and reason for existing beyond his clones is now null if you could always just make a female custodes and make babies with them. If they can't breed then why the frick would you bother turning them everything they are and removing anything that even remotely resembles female?
Fabulous Bill seeks to replicate a primarch, which neither him or Cawl have been able to do (the primarch clones without warp mojo may be custodes tier).
That's not true. Bile has recreated every primarch already. The only guaranteed one still around alive is the perfect full Fulgrim clone at that necron nerds place
Fabius Bile doesn't have the same genetic engineering knowledge as the Emperor
The latter created several distinct flavors of superhuman warrior (including the primarchs) while the other is making imitations using his own understanding and methods
So can anyone give a good reason as to why they SHOULD add female space marines? I keep seeing argue reasons why they should not, but no one really has ever given me a good reason as to why they should go against established lore for any other reason besides some weird form of inclusion.
army men in space sales
it’s delusional and wrong because the subset of women who get into 40K are the brain damaged outcast type who want to get fricked by vampires and dinosaurs and shit so they already get into factions like tyranids
In the books I've read, the faces of space marines suffer from gigantism, they're all big and square. Do custodes have the same issues? Would female custodes have big square man faces?
They would its actually one of the funnything about female custodes or female marines that i have pointed out.
They are 100% not about being inclusive its about just not wanting a male only space.
The process of turning into a space mariens or custode makes you a massive hulk of muscle, bone, steel, and everything inbetween, so as a result, a female space marine or custode would be completely indistinguishable from a male, because their muscle mass would be huge as well.
That means the only way you can identify if a marine is a female or a male is by amplyfying their secondary sex organs, IE their breasts, or making them more shapely, IE feminine.
As a result, you end up sexualizing the female version, which goes against the entire point of the argument for having them because its sexist to NOT have them.
So the only way you would be able to tell a space marine female appart is by making it sexist with boob plate or feminine features all in the name to fight sexism and male space.
Well the thing is
people are using that argument for a reason why there should be FSM
"They will all look the same so why would it matter?"
That sorta stuff
Its better to not think of them wanting females and more as them wanting to push their ideas
The change will just be "female-coded", stern, ugly heads. Amazing thing to nuke half your fanbase over, but that's really all they can do. Any physical difference beyond that, even height, will be seen as sexism.
It's worse than that, if they even had breasts, it wouldn't make any sense from a lore standpoint.
You're telling me that this space marine is having 19 organs sewn into her to increase combat prowess, but not getting a mastectomy?
>"They will all look the same so why would it matter?"
To which you argue, "Ok if they will all look the same, why make the change in the first place?"
Like the more you look into the lore and reason the more none of it would make any sense which is why i find that 99% of the people arguing for it, dont read or think about the lore at all.
Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby because they dont care about the fundamental aspect that holds the setting and story up in the first place.
If lore does not matter, none of it does.
>Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby
Ding ding ding. Their hobby is trying to piss all over things that "chuds" enjoy, not Warhammer/MTG/etc
>Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby
Ding ding ding. Their hobby is trying to piss all over things that "chuds" enjoy, not Warhammer/MTG/etc
Except the people who have wanted to rewrite the lore is GW themselves and they've been doing that since the very beginning, they've been structurally been apart of the making of the lore since the very beginning, retcons didn't become a problem for you until they started adding women and nonwhites to your boys club
Not true, it was fine allthe way through 5th ed, it was even ok thorugh 6th and 7th with a few problem child lore bits like Gray knights. It went off the fricking rails 8th onward.
Its not GW as a whole, its the new age GW thats fricking everything up.
The change will just be "female-coded", stern, ugly heads. Amazing thing to nuke half your fanbase over, but that's really all they can do. Any physical difference beyond that, even height, will be seen as sexism.
It's worse than that, if they even had breasts, it wouldn't make any sense from a lore standpoint.
You're telling me that this space marine is having 19 organs sewn into her to increase combat prowess, but not getting a mastectomy?
>You're telling me that this space marine is having 19 organs sewn into her to increase combat prowess, but not getting a mastectomy?
This just oozes feminine archetypal behaviour.
Seriously though, tell the average man (teenage boy) that he could have his body sculpted into an ultimate killing man-machine, he would likely be delighted.
A woman (or especially a teenage girl), even one that enjoys combat sports or body modification, would be horrified.
Well the thing is
people are using that argument for a reason why there should be FSM
"They will all look the same so why would it matter?"
That sorta stuff
Its better to not think of them wanting females and more as them wanting to push their ideas
Well, with FSM I think its also implied almost every chapter does culling rituals too
So I don't know if lefty fans really know what that implies, or if they like the idea of an 11 year old girl getting her brains bashed out by a similarly aged boy during one of these contests to narrow down selection
I don't understand leftist going into Warhammer 40k in general.
There is an entire cast of people who get their personalities wiped so they can do minimal jobs forever so slavery
Alot of the population supplements their diet with other people using corpse starch
The local police are more brutal to the general populace and they are justified in doing so
Almost every rebellion isn't really done because the working class is rising up against the "man" But is because evil gods tell them to or they got raped by alien
If you make a feel good story In the universe about some noble transitioning you not only have to deal with starving kids in Africa, but those kids being taken by the government to be turned into killers or slaves, being eaten by mushrooms or bugs, Being turned into a chair for a sadomasochistic or getting their eternal soul dammed because some demon got close to them.
>rrreeee, masculinity is violence >meanwhile "masculinity" in question
I'm so glad I got out of the Warhammer boat in the mid-2000s. May Warhammer remain in my memory as a hobby for edgy teenagers, not for fat incels.
Wargaming is literally an abstraction of violence.
And I always thought it was like chess, but more fun, how wrong I was, thank you for explaining, I have one question - have you already paid $18000 for "Alpha Male Boot Camp" or are you just planning to?
>Dorks who paint models and read comics about manly-men doing cool things aren't gigachads themselves
This is not anything new. Guys still like masculinity, even if they aren't out there doing it
>regularily culling the most aggressive from populations all across the Empire and having the mind-wiped as older men inject their gene seed into them was a giant social engineering project. >The fact that Space Marines also fight rather well doesn't acutally matter all that much.
If there are no models for this and there won't be for a long time, I bet they'll push their appearance in a video game (since I don't think Cavill's show will come on anytime soon). What's the next 40k game anyway? Space Marine 2? Some card game? People will forget about this then the video game comes, and then GW will judge public reaction to it. The novel and the tweet isn't enough for them to gauge it.
I was actually totally on the fence about this even being an issue at all until I saw the shills ITT who were arguing in favor for it. moronic twitterlib mongoloids arguing in bad faith really poisoned the well for me, if it was alt right dweebs trying to falseflag it worked like a charm, because this shit has turned me off of 40k pretty hard
eh, it was getting to be an expensive hobby anyways. gives me an excuse to start buying other things instead
I don't understand leftist going into Warhammer 40k in general.
There is an entire cast of people who get their personalities wiped so they can do minimal jobs forever so slavery
Alot of the population supplements their diet with other people using corpse starch
The local police are more brutal to the general populace and they are justified in doing so
Almost every rebellion isn't really done because the working class is rising up against the "man" But is because evil gods tell them to or they got raped by alien
If you make a feel good story In the universe about some noble transitioning you not only have to deal with starving kids in Africa, but those kids being taken by the government to be turned into killers or slaves, being eaten by mushrooms or bugs, Being turned into a chair for a sadomasochistic or getting their eternal soul dammed because some demon got close to them.
lefties have a weird brain disesase where they imagine that fiction is presciptivist and that you can't possibly depict unambiguously evil groups of people. so because of this fictional evil empires have to embrace weird modern liberalism and multiculturalism so they can be good evil empires, I guess. liberals are silly and unserious
>lefties have a weird brain disesase where they imagine that fiction is presciptivist
It's because they are incapable of abstraction and thus cannot create anything which doesn't align with their worldview. They project their "everything is an attempt at ideological subversion and manipulation" behavior onto everybody. So you can write a story about evil snakes in a forest trying to eat mouse people and they will still find some way to make it about communism or trannies or black people
Quite literally every major release pisses off major segments of fanbase.
They actively frick the rules and competitive scenes to ensure they sell the newer models/rulebooks.
Pretty sure I've seen posted somewhere an interview where leadership says that they essentially don't care about keeping players. Their business model is centered around constantly bringing in new people, not selling to returning people.
They've never given a shit about you at all.
The only sane thing to do would be a project akin to what Paizo did with Pathfinder, not continuing to support a company that doesn't care enough about you to hate you.
Nope. It was fine before 5th ED rattled the cage hard.
1st ED was more fun and satire.
Editions from 2 to 3 were where the game was growing its pair.
4th ED was the peak lore-wise and would've been perfect if the Squats were not squatted.
5th is where the cracks appeared and Ultramarines almost became universally hated.
EDs from 6 to 7 were still somehow tolerable but it was not the same anymore.
ED 8 and onwards is where 40K lost literally everything.
Really, it was always going to be this way because the positive case for not making such changes was never made, and never shared by the creators or custodians of lore. There was always a tacit belief in the liberal conventions that inexorably lead us here. If IoM had been characterised explicitly as sexist and racist from the start, and kept that way, we would not have this problem today. We would have new problems, but not this one.
>Completely abandoned a game and told the fans to go frick themselves multiple times. >Basically been forcing players to bench their SM armies in favor of SM: By larger. >Flat out told fan content creators to frick off in favor of their dog shit streaming service. >Recently told beastman players to either rebase and play a completely different game or go frick themselves. >all of the other bullshit like outrageous prices, dumbass rules, constant nerfs/buffs to get you to buy new models.
THat's just what I can think of off the top of my head, they've been c**ts since the late 90s.
I'm just glad the other Wargames I've been interested in aren't in the "Zeitgeist' or whatever you call it, don't have teeth gnashing c**ts showing up to anything that isn't popular.
Thats the problem, you want to know why Star War/Lotr etc still exist even with all the failure? BlackRock ESG money, as long as your popular and useful, they'll prop you up and let you keep being incompetent frickwads to spread the Message. ITs never about the money with these people. Once GW gets outside investment, the activists in the company will steer it straight down the drain and still make shitty product with ESG money
So the custodes are getting feminized, and slaanesh daemons got a lot of women, and transformers are set on taking the adeptas sororitas and sisters of silence.
What based factions are still left?
Orks I know, maybe necrons?
>Orks I know
Orks can be seen as nonbinary due to their reproductive nature >maybe necrons
"Before biotransference, I never felt comfortable within my own body. Now ever since I past through the cyclopean furnaces, I have become the woman I knew I always was" - Phaerakh Ma'nhud
Orkz are singular, there is no existing binary besides being an ork and not being and ork.
Orkz have no women, they have no needed representation. All they do is WAAAAGH.
URETHRA!
I'll make my own tabletop wargame in a vague scifi setting, build a company that prints the models and sells game books, and dethrone Games Workshop! Why didn't I think of that before?
To be fair I was already out when primaris became a thing and I'd already been on the print train. It just sucks that they fricked up what was already established for no other reason than petty politics. I can tolerate them just making the setting shit through bad writing, but I won't tolerate the spite and disrespect.
[...]
[...] >"They will all look the same so why would it matter?"
To which you argue, "Ok if they will all look the same, why make the change in the first place?"
Like the more you look into the lore and reason the more none of it would make any sense which is why i find that 99% of the people arguing for it, dont read or think about the lore at all.
Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby because they dont care about the fundamental aspect that holds the setting and story up in the first place.
If lore does not matter, none of it does.
>Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby
Ding ding ding. Their hobby is trying to piss all over things that "chuds" enjoy, not Warhammer/MTG/etc
This. It's a disingenuous argument. if nobody cares, then it didn't need to change to begin with.
Tinfoil hat time -
The only reason female custodes are retconned now is because custodes will be featured prominently in Henry Cavill's Warhammer TV show and they want to have guys and gals on screen for it.
I know I shouldnt link to plebbit but the arrogance of some people. Imagine saying femstodes are correct because pro femstodes posts get more le updoots. Pathetic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c51r5r/i_honestly_dont_care_but_its_still_funny_to_watch/kzspzhz/
This female empowerment bullshit is frankly insidious and vehemently anti-male.
Women are valued through their ability to reproduce. Their womb and the entire principle of pregnancy is what afford inherent value to their gender. It is the very basis of the female experience - no matter what uppity bulldykes might want to think. Their ability to carry children is their reason to exist within the human gender dichotomy.
Mens' reason to exist within the gender dichotomy is to provide, protect, and self-sacrifice if necessary. It's core to the male experience of life. Men are not needed as much as women to maintain reproduction, so men developed to be better and more necessary for all the other parts of maintaining a society.
But what, 40k is basically saying that the thing that makes men special compared to women, that makes them 'necessary', compared to women, just doesn't exist.
Not only are women the ones who get pregnant - and thus are the valuable lynchpin for human reproduction - they're ALSO just as physically capable and competent as men?
You're robbing men of their entire reason to exist. In such a setting, wouldn't the species just be like 95% female and 5% males who have no purpose beyond serving as disposable sperm donors? Since, you know, the stronk womarinos can do literally everything just as well as men anyway, AND have the precious wombs.
If it was just one or two fictional settings here or there I wouldn't care. But it's EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Every single setting, fictional piece, story, and even real-life ideology essentially has to deny that men have any real reason to exist.
It's fricking disgusting.
It would be as dehumanising as making a setting where men can get pregnant just as easily as women, but women remain the smaller, slower,weaker sex. You are robbing them of any reason to exist at all. You're just making them objectively worse human beings.
yeah, since sisters of battle
>Lets be honest, Warhammer 40K was always shit.
Yup! But it had cool art.
Let's all move to Manfic. Deadzone is a much better game than Kill Team.
You're objectively correct but the common argument is that it made the board in the first place so you are obligated to like it.
All stories end eventually anon. The people who made the good shit are gone. Time to move on.
I never liked WH in the first place so you don't gotta worry I was always past it lmao
Fart pee haha butts
>WH40k in fan hands
Great!
>WH40k in GW hands
Shit.
Nah, they're just different breeds of cringe.
in fan hands
I too adore TTS. You, good sir, made an epic post.
Denial is the first stage of grief. "I can't be hurt by losing something I loved because it was never really good to begin with." Please, Anon, it's okay.
Better than the ones who are doubling down because they've sunk thousands of dollars into GW and their identity is so tied up in it that any flavor change is perceived as a fundamental attack on their selves.
>late 90s/ early 2000s
>star wars was good
lol
lmao, even
didnt read
No, for the most part it's pretty great, just every few years GW shits the bed in one way or another.
The WAAC gays are used to having vegana in their armies.
You posted this in the sexy Tau thread. It was stupid there and it's stupid here.
>Warhammer
>Lord of the Rings
>Star Wars
>Magic the Gathering
all of them are shit, they had a run in during the best time the world ever saw, aka the end of the 90s/early 2000s, and thats it.
One shit decision after another, shit games, shit movies, shit product. Companies taking the 'turn your IP to shit in 10 easy steps' route.
I mean, to even think that they are not able to produce a single banger Game for Warhammer or Lotr, just shit after shit after shit. It blows my mind.
Bad adaptations don't make the source material bad, anon. Stop thinking like a moron.
>lotr
>late 90s/early 2000s
Get the frick out of /tg/, outsider.
>the best time the world ever saw, aka the end of the 90s/early 2000s
I bet you were a teen at that time.
Everyone seems to think the world was at its best when they were around 13 years old and it's all downhill afterwards lol
not him but I hated most shit when I was 13. I do think there was a measurable downturn in median quality from 2012 onwards as the aftermath of occupy wall street caused a demonstrable and easily measured increase in culture war bullshit as wealthy elites incentivized division to try and reduce class consciousness, focusing instead on endless identity politics bullshit.
interestingly all mentioned are good if you use older versions
>it makes you upset.
Only because she's not 8 months pregnant.
With quadruplets.
Okay, I concede the point. She should be pregnant and lactating and also capable of vore.
>I am controlled by my dick
and thus are part of the problem. coomers and trannies = bad news.
>X was always Y
there is no quicker for a person to mark themselves as trying to change a hobby or fandom for the worse than this phrase
It's just internet baitslop.
the hobby is gay and moronic now, let the troonys have it
>rape is OK today because sexual crimes were always a thing that happened at some point somewhere
ok moron
I've always liked it and don't let the fanbase change my mind about it.
But the fans and have every right to be attached to official canon lore for the franchise.
It's something people invest a lot of money and time in to keep up the massive role play for GW, they'd die without it.
40k is good.
40k fans have a right to their opinions.
i just don't care anymore, not buying any GW products. Custodes with a pussy? don't waste my time.
>But the fans and have every right to be attached to official canon lore for the franchise
Rogue Trader?
Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes? If it was SM sure, it's been in the lore countless times that they're male only, but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well.
I think the issue stems that in the codex it clearly says that the custodes were created from the firstborn sons of nobles on old earth before, during and even after the Unification Wars.
That's what a lot of fans SAY the issue is, but this shitstorm is far bigger than the ones they made over nucrons, which was a SIGNIFICANTLY bigger retcon. At some point I feel like "muh retcon" is just an excuse because they don't have the balls to admit they don't want women in their superhuman boys club.
>hurr why didn't you all care when social media hadn't been created yet and all this kind of bullshit was still on the down-low
>they don't have the balls to admit they don't want women in their superhuman boys club
Maybe its because people are fricking tired of blatant pandering and inclusivity. Its transparent and takes you out of a setting when you can tell it wasn't organically added because it fits, it was added because some homosexual has an agenda above all else. Sometimes people can have an agenda AND the addition can feel natural, but this is not one of those times
And that agenda would be?
> can tell it wasn't organically added because it fits
Bro, this is 40k. You think the orks were added organically because they fit, or do you reckon they looked for a way to cram orcs in their space setting because the fantasy setting had them and they thought it would be funny?
I completely agree that the gaslighting is shitty and I would bet someone is getting fired either over that tweet(?) or over creating a situation that made them feel it was necessary.
I just think they never had respect for the "integrity" to begin with and always just did what they thought would sell more models, and anyone who expected zero retcons ever was deluding themselves.
I also think the furore has a lot to do with people refusing to accept this because James long ago gaslit them into making 40k part of their identity because there's no other way to make people fork over $1000 after you squat their $1000 purchase from 2 years ago. It may surprise you, but I HOPE GW loses customers; not because I give a shit about femananas, but because they're a predatory company that encourages unhealthy spending habits.
>Bro, this is 40k. You think the orks were added organically because they fit
This shows a misunderstanding of reality, and actually the Orks added beautifully to the 40k universe specifically because they were so unlike the Imperium.
Look at real history. Let's look at 18th century Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Seemingly these two powers do not 'fit' in the same universe, let alone the same world. Except they did. They are made more intriguing because of the totally contrasting world-views, the disparity in what they considered virtues and vices, and the way their civilisations functioned. Yet both were empires, and successful empires that rivalled one another.
That is how the Orks and the Imperium work together. They do not fit together, but they do fit in the same universe.
The problem with modern 40k is that they are trying to put an Ottoman Sultan and a bunch of Dhimmis in the midst of industrial Sheffield, and claiming they fit in and are accepted, and it just makes no sense. It breaks any sense of immersion, because these Ottomans clearly do not belong in the heart of Britain.
Having the two Empires clash is interesting. The great struggles between the Ork and the Imperium is fascinating and allows lots of different stories to be told. You cannot, however, have Orks embedded in the Imperium. It just does not work.
And that is basically the problem with the new-lore. It is trying to mesh politically correct sensibilities with a faction that has previously been rendered as a brutal survivalist fascist theocracy. For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies. Once you take even that small detail away, it begins to undermine everything else unless they come up with an adequate explanation for it (and they did with some female factions; fanatical nuns, the crazed assassins of an Imperial tyrant from a dark age, etc; but the new stuff just does not fit)
>And that is basically the problem with the new-lore. It is trying to mesh politically correct sensibilities with a faction that has previously been rendered as a brutal survivalist fascist theocracy. For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies. Once you take even that small detail away, it begins to undermine everything else unless they come up with an adequate explanation for it (and they did with some female factions; fanatical nuns, the crazed assassins of an Imperial tyrant from a dark age, etc; but the new stuff just does not fit)
Firstly, that's not even true in modern brutal fascist theocracies; consider that Iran's morality police, one of our world's closer analogues to the Imperial Inquisition, is largely female. Secondly, there have been women in the Imperial Guard, including all-female regiments, for decades. Thirdly, the Custodes all come from extremely privileged backgrounds.
>Iran's morality police, one of our world's closer analogues to the Imperial Inquisition, is largely female.
That's quite the spicy claim
Do you have some sweet sauce for that?
>company catering to people who don't like the game
This has never been anything more than a cope you can only sustain because you never leave your echo chamber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guidance_Patrol
They're the ones in black.
I'd like a source for the "largely" part. As far as I know, this unit is an exception and basically a publicity stunt.
>We're talking a world with rules
NTAYRT
I'm sorry that you've allowed James to convince you this is true.
>For the Imperium to make sense, women should for the most part be baby factories whose noble purpose is fueling the Emperor's endless armies.
The Sororitas alone prove you're full of shit.
Sororitas were an army for the ecclesiarchy because they can't have "men at arms"
But other then that, that anon is being weird
>The Sororitas alone prove you're full of shit.
The Sororitas were literally created to be a work around to evade the prohibition against the Ecclesiarchy retaining "men at arms". Meaning the Imperium on the whole was so patriarchal that it didn't even consider the possibility of female soldiers.
So no, the Sororitas are not the girl power organization that you think they are that proves he's full of shit.
>Look at real history. Let's look at 18th century Britain and the Ottoman Empire. Seemingly these two powers do not 'fit' in the same universe,
You're a fricking idiot anon. Did you really compare two empires that were on the same fricking contient to aliens? Of course they 'fit' the same universe, you had god-bothering (Tengrism then Islam) cousin fricking turks (who as a people are the descendents of migratory foreign invaders) at war with god-bothering (celtic then roman then christian) cousin fricking anglo-saxons (who as a people are the descendents of migratory foreign invaders.
They're two different guard regiments at best, the rest of your comment is just as moronic
>You cannot, however, have Orks embedded in the Imperium. It just does not work.
I recall that the setting used to have orc mercs and orc factions that themed themselves on the Imperium.
You are correct, again, this was in rouge trader, you could have ork freebooters.
Okay. Now tell me that it would make sense if there was an Ork as an Imperial Governor, reporting to the High Lords of Terra, sending along distressing reports of 'heretics have been detected in the sector' to the Inquisition.
How would they react to the Ork governor?
Maybe an Ork Inquisitor would respond? Perhaps he'd chastise the other Ork for his impiety and lack of service to the Emperor for letting this heresy appear in the first place?
... Does that feel disjointed to you? Does it break the immersion? Of course it does.
Let me again stress that you can have characters and even groups that buck stereotypes. They can make for some of the most interesting stories. You need to be careful with it though, because if you go too far it is just stupid and immersion shattering. Could the Imperium use Ork mercenaries? Absolutely, they do. Could those Ork mercenaries be typically insane Orks that get the wrong end of the stick and start trying to LARP as 'oomies? To a limited extent, yes, especially in a less serious and more comedic story. Would the Imperium treat those Orks as true Imperials, as 100% human, as true servants of the Emperor? HELL NO! If they do, it breaks the immersion.
And the immersion is broken when we keep having women thrust into positions in the universe where it makes no sense. Again, one or two exceptional cases with a good reason behind them? Perhaps entire regiments that ended up having to send their women because all the men got abducted by a dark eldar rape raid and the Imperium were unsympathetic and demanded they fill their quota anyway? There are ways of explaining it, but what GW have done in recent times is disjointed and breaks the believability of the setting. Even absurd stories can be believable if the story is coherent and the logic consistent.
If I recall correctly the ork mercenaries were also liable to attack the humans they were hired to help.
Let's not forget the Diggas, humans who managed to live peacefully with orkz by imitating them.
Gorkamorka was anything but peaceful.
source on these models?
these are kitbashed poxwalkers cultists and aos khorne models i think
You're arguing with ideologues engaging in bad faith discussion. What you wrote is 100% true and plainly obvious to any rational 100+ IQ person but it doesn't matter as the Cult of Inclusion and their coporate overlord, Blackrock, has spoken.
>There are ways of explaining it, but what GW have done in recent times is disjointed and breaks the believability of the setting. Even absurd stories can be believable if the story is coherent and the logic consistent.
Exactly this.
There are plenty of ways you can have female soldiers/combatants involved. You just need to provide some kind of justification for why women are occupying a position that is entirely atypical to our understanding of humans as a species.
A deeply ingrained religious principle (Sisters of Battle). An Administratum frick-up (easy and perfectly common). A last-ditch conscription effort. Whatever.
But saying
>w-well men and women just happen to be exactly the same physically though every other gender norm remains in place
Or giving no real explanation/justification whatsoever is shit.
And frankly, since it perfectly aligns with the very real political agenda of nonsensical-female-empowerment-to-the-point-of-delusion, it stinks of propaganda.
Nucrons are fine because it was essentially gw admitting they'd written themselves into a corner with necrons and needed to completely rewrite the faction to give them a lore that can actually be used/expanded.
Female custards is just gw injecting modern politics for no good reason and then essentially trying to gaslight everyone as simply misremembering. Basically they have no integrity or respect for the fans or their own ip.
>Nucrons are fine
They are trash, they should have just made a Necron/Dark Necron split to placate both sides. They can even use the same shit, it's not like codex compliant/adverse chapters use a whole separate rulebook. Make the only gameplay differences between the two that oldcrons can take a C'tan as warlord and don't do morale at the cost of having phase out.
I think the lore says there still are crons that are basically like the old ones. Lore wise I do think maybe they should do like you say. I personally like nucrons, they let me make up my own characters and have the kind of fun I like.
>I think the lore says there still are crons that are basically like the old ones
Not at all, rather than being controlled by eldritch gods they are just controlled by the central tomb complex's AI. Also they still have to take moral and shit.
It's not the same vibe at all, before they were scarier than tyranids (even Tyranids just have psykers) since they could do and surpass everything that other factions could do with reality bending technology that was incomprehensible to other races because they were partially created by a being who understands the material universe on a fundamental level far more than other other creature. Now they are literally just skynet for the fake dynasties of oldcrons. Chaos gets around reality by using the energy of another realm, Necrons/C'tan held such knowledge of reality they could change the rules of the realm based entirely on their understanding of it
OK well then I agree, that woulda been cool but GW sucks too much to do something rad like that anymore. They're basically doing a george lucas and putting mitachlorian all over their own setting
>Nucrons are fine
Frick you
Because female custards are a retcon, and they are water testing for female space marines. Seeing how it has gone over is all but confirmation.
>water testing for female space marines.
I highly doubt they'd do that. There's this and then there's cutting into your bottom line.
>I highly doubt they'd do
Frick off with your purposeful delusions. A custodes is so close to a space marine it might as well be it.
Lore arguments are always moot. Since they've retconed the superest marines into always having women nothing prevents them from doing the same with space marines.
more like it ensures that they will
They were “never” going to do female custodes either, then black rock called them and they danced to their fiddle.
>then black rock called them and they danced to their fiddle.
She can't keep getting away with it
Seems we're back to
1) Be rich
2) Don't be poor
The entire company consists of liberal British men, they would do that, and in fact they'd all agree it's a good idea.
OR this is GW dealing with the calls for femarines by just making other post human power armoured warriors so they can ignore them from here on.
The actually funny thing is that the models are still all the same. Keep the helmets on and there's no difference. People are fighting over the theoretical inclusion of female custodes into some of the BL books I guess. If anything, it shows how pointless female space marines would even be. They'd all look the same anyway, so really who gives a shit?
>Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes?
It's just another DEI move and everyone knows it. Same song and dance, first it's
>They can exist!
then it'll be
>They're actually better because
and finally
>All the male custodes are pants on head moronic so the womyn shine
Rinse and repeat.
>All the male custodes are pants on head moronic so the womyn shine
I don't see what's wrong with that?
This is the problem with you people. You're utterly incapable of conceiving of a way to uplift a character without dragging another down, and you will do this to the utter detriment of any storytelling. This kind of shit is why Forspoken failed. If you want a setting with all the inclusivity bullshit you could ever ask for, World of Darkness already exists and does not suffer at all in quality as a result because it was built from the ground-up with exactly that kind of representation in mind.
Play the games and settings that fit what you want. Make your own games and settings. Modify an existing game or setting for your own group. But NEVER fricking change something that already exists just because you'd like it better that way. That means you aren't a fan of the thing, you're a hostile intruder into a space you have no part in
>You're utterly incapable of conceiving of a way to uplift a character without dragging another down,
It's not that we're incapable. It's because dragging characters down is what makes a character good, you dumbass.
If it was up to you, your main character would be the inescapable chad who brings salvation easily and becomes the shining example of ultimate success and greatness. But that shit gets old very quickly.
If you really want to realize that you REALLY love your character, have him suffer. Have him lose and be in pain and become less that you'd expect him to be.
Weakness isn't bad. It's just an opportunity to face adversity and become stronger.
The reason you people rage at everything, it's because you can't conceive of the fact that flawed, down-on-the-dirt situations is what makes a character truly shine.
>Equating personal suffering with hamstringing a character
Yes Luke is such a better character for completely giving up as soon as the original trilogy ended so that Rey could look better, how astute of you.
This is a blatant example of strawmanning and samegayging. You literally proved that you can't concieve of uplifting a character without dragging another down. A protagonist defeating an enemy is not dragging the villain down as a character. It's resolution of conflict that only really works when both the hero and villain are properly developed and portrayed. A character suffering is not dragging them down, it's conflict, and the resolution at the end can either leave the character permanently wounded(Ravenor) or they can come out the other side stronger in every way, or anything between. Your need to denigrate others is pathological and you project it onto others because it's the only way you can avoid feeling guilty about it
Girlbossing REQUIRES denigration toward everyone that isn't that specific female character or her close friends. It's not good characterization, because you never actually have the b***h earn her status. It's just given to her because she's a Mary Sue.
Make a female character as good as Ellen Ripley or frick the hell off. Actually good female characters exist all over fiction in all forms of media, and there's countless examples in real life. That you fricks can't manage it without dragging down men is despicable and pitiful.
Also, you have no clue how wrong
>you can't conceive of the fact that flawed, down-on-the-dirt situations is what makes a character truly shine
is. My favorite TTRPGs are the ones where me or my players are just regular people having to adapt and overcome. I will point to WoD again, a system that was built with troon shit in mind, and yet doesn't suffer at all as a result, because it doesn't do things JUST for inclusivity reasons and keeps itself mostly internally consistent.
You don't play these games. You don't actually understand what struggle and suffering are. You need to shut the frick up.
I.E This is what I hear from you:
>Noooo! The female character can't be the inescapable Stacy!
>It is THE MALE CHARACTER who must be the inescapable chad!
>NOOOOOooooo!
Constantine Valdor is a man devoid of anything but purpose, and who has failed his most important duties. That is not an "inescapable chad", and if you think that sort of archetype is what 40k is about you're missing the point and haven't read a single book in the setting.
Even characters in other series famous for being unbeatable/strong by normal standards like Alucard or Vegeta have way more going on being strong. Making a warrior character a woman in grounded settings makes zero sense in most scenarios unless it is a story about the very very rare case of women disguising themselves as a man to fight or unless they were not picked by a strict process since no process that trains people to kill are ever going to want to pick women over men.
Good thing Warhammer isn't a grounded setting
>Good thing Warhammer isn't a grounded setting
Modern day and human history as we know it is canon in 40k and in human history women cannot compete with men academically or physically on average which is why there are different standards for men and women for both and men are graded/treated more harshly academically and physically as well.
Yes it is, you're just too stupid and ignorant to understand how. Absolutely every part of the Imperium exists because something similar existed in human history. It is a parody of some of those things, and it celebrates others. You are not a fan of Warhammer, or you wouldn't be saying this bullshit. Instead, you are an anti-fan, coming in to change what exists to what you like instead of making something on your own. Your bitterness about your own life is palpable.
how do you manage to breath and think, at the same time?
Since your moronic here is a funny picture that might explain the problem to you since I unfortunately do not have crayons at hand to feed you.
>but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well.
No, they explicitly are not. Thats why He made space marines, because they are much closer to humanity.
>Genuinely what is the problem with femstodes?
Because they were not a thing. Now they are and always have been. Not for any in universe reasons, but for IRL fringe ideological reasons. The gaslighting does not help either. This is a signal, this shit wont stop here. WH is done unless they make a very strong statement dismissing this bs, but they wont.
Because women are almost entirely weak, sponging cowards and I'm sick of every single fictional IP in existence artificially propping them up and further inflating their already ridiculously delusional sense of self-worth.
>weak, sponging cowards
Kind of like you, I suppose. I'm surprised you don't feel more kinship.
>ridiculously delusional sense of self-worth.
Anon, I try not to go for low-hanging fruit. Make it a challenge.
I really thought the war in ukraine would've silenced you stupid woman-worshipping pissants but you're so deep into rejection of reality it's sad.
How many women immediately sprinted in the opposite direction the moment war broke out?
Just fricking have a nice day.
>Ukraine out of nowhere
>modern situation relating exactly to the subject being discussed (female cowardice)
>how is that relevant?
Rich of you to accuse others of brain damage.
>Applying real life to tabletop games where people kill each other with chainsaw swords
Yeah, you definitely have brain damage
We're talking a world with rules, not kindergarten "I have infinity plus one power" shit.
And we already have Bolter b***hes.
Female warriors in Warhammer and 40k have been a thing for ages now.
read
Anon I responded to that idiot here
>thinking the administratum excecutes you for doing dumb shit
Anon the administratum like any real life bureaucracy the more shit deicisons you make the high you climb.
Its 40k anon not real life gotta remember/ or learn
Humans now irl are not the same 'humans' as 40k people. 40k people men and women work 16-20 hour shifts 7 days a week until they drop dead, they are as a species evolving into a pyskic race, they are tougher, stronger and more resiliant than we are.
You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman. They could probably ace the navy seal training since getting pneumonia and hauling heavy shit till your legs break is a slow day at work in the hive factorum
>You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman
Maybe so.
It seems awfully convenience that every single fictional IP in existence comes up with convenient reasons to play along with the clear irl agenda of fraudulently inflating the capabilities of women though. Don't you think?
I mean, when it PERFECTLY ALIGNS with a clearly observable real life political ideology, that's a bit fishy isn't it?
I mean is there a single fictional setting left in existence that actually acknowledges physical differences between men and women at all any more?
It's called marketing, you dip. Turns out you're no longer lowest common denominator. Which is an odd thing to be mad about.
>Which is an odd thing to be mad about.
Seems like a fairly sensible thing to be mad about, a company rejecting reality and embracing delusion for a quick buck.
Masculinity can not be celebrated.
Men only spaces can not exist.
Even the concept of a man is completely amorphous.
Yet another way that I am shit on for being a man.
>Masculinity can not be celebrated
>In 40k
anon you need to go to another setting, 40k is a monument to the dereliction of mankind and ALL of his accomplishments, science, progress, religious fulfillment, understanding, prosperity, technolically advancment, peace. The Emperor hollowed out and destroyed everything worth living for, the Imperium is the ultimate necropolis that is beyond even Nagashs wildest dream.
>the emperor destroyed
its canon in lore that a woman ruined everything by throwing the baby primarchs into the void though...
Space Marines are knights in shining armor in space.
They celebrate a masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
They are absolutely a celebration of masculinity.
>masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
First is that being an aggressive monkey is generally a human trait, not a man's trait. Second - to be an aggressive unbalanced monkey is barbarism that does not befit a cold-blooded civilized man. Moreover, keeping one's emotions under control was considered the norm for a civilized man since the days of the Roman Empire. And that another episode Murica destroys everything, this time replacing the ideas of true cold-blooded man with a twisted parody for infantile incels.
>Being an aggressive monkey is generally a human trait
Ok so we're just completely ignoring reality now.
I don't think the point of 40k is a celebration of masculinity, nor did I say that.
>I don't think the point of 40k is a celebration of masculinity
That's literally what you said though read the thread chain moron
>Space Marines are knights in shining armor in space.
They celebrate a masculine urge for violence, glory, and power.
They are absolutely a celebration of masculinity.
based masculinity understander
Space marines being a celebration of masculinity doesn't make that the point of 40k moron.
So you think space marines, the poster boys of 40k are a celebration of masculinity
While 40k itself as a setting is meant to be a deconstruction of everything that represents civilisation as a product of masculinity? (science, progress, religious fulfillment, understanding, prosperity, technological advancment, peace etc). Do you think thats a little weird and doesnt make sense?
Hear me out anon, what if space marines, are just Sea People in power armour? violent murderous civlisation destroyers only looking out of themselves, and after 10k years do lip service to the imperium and claim to fight on behalf of to defend when really they are just looking to build their own personal honour and glory or coverup their fricks that tarnish their honour and glory.
Space marines do not celebrate masculinity at all
>Men only spaces can not exist.
Orkz are a race of chavs that reproduce asexually
Yeah but they are also modeled off of football hooligans
I would bet the reason why GW made them mushrooms was to stop people thinking the "Implications" of them if they reproduced sexually
Marketing never involved a deliberate and blatant rejection of absolute reality before pandering to women (and their pathetic male feminist lapdogs) got involved.
If the 'lowest common denominator' now means pandering to delusional morons who don't understand reality I'd say that's a fair thing to be disgusted by.
>More breasts
I'm okay with this.
>muh cooooooom
People like you are even more pathetic than the feminists who actually believe this 'muh representayshun' shit.
I am a heterosexual man and I like looking at breasts. What of it?
>is there a single fictional setting left in existence that actually acknowledges physical differences between men and women at all any more?
The Bible lmao
>is there a franchise where women aren’t men
Gorge RR Fartin afaik
Don't sweat the trannies and soilets that refuse to acknowledge basic anatomy. The lesson to learn here is that you should have zero expectations for any sort of narrative or entertainment that you yourself don't create. israelites and their hordes of degenerates will ruin anything and everything they can. Disappointment comes from reality misaligning with your expectations. Or you can fight for it. Either way, you're as correct in your observation as they are delusional shills.
It's funny how the people that always default to "It always sucked" or "who cares lol it's a game " never take their own advice and will argue tooth and nail for why the thing you like should be changed to suit their sensibilities.
>You can't compare weak woman irl with 40k lore hive scum woman. They could probably ace the navy seal training since getting pneumonia and hauling heavy shit till your legs break is a slow day at work in the hive factorum
You're a moron.
Performing back breaking labor has been the norm for all of human history. Yet women are still weaker than men.
If anything, extreme conditions would lead to a higher disparity between the sexes (women become better at making babies and gestation changes, men become hardier and stronger depending on natural pressures).
Extreme conditions select for greater sexual dimorphism, not less. The whole idea of "equality between the sexes" is a luxury of a wealthy and prosperous society that can eschew biological roles at the expense of efficiency.
Hey anon are we humans now today evolving into psykers? can you hear whispering at the edge of your mind, summon warp energy to destroy your enemies? no? then maybe humans now and 40k humans are totally differently and again theres no strength or endurance difference between men and women in 40k, they're both just warm bodies to throw at problems
Cool, let's just put infants on the front line as well. All they need is warm bodies, right?
Better make sure that Tyranid hive is wheelchair accessible!
>Better make sure that Tyranid hive is wheelchair accessible!
Good idea! We need to see if our shields will be effective in such areas.
infants on the front line is a great way to test the foul tyranid xenos acidic weapons to see how effective they are at melting human flesh. brilliant idea you're promoted!
>Majority of the guard are men and mechanics use males for their troops
Headcanon again anon. Mechanicus uses lobotmized cyborgs of unknown gender because its mostly cut away for cybernetics, guard uses any warm bodiy thats enlists or is gangpressed regardless of gender
You can just look at the models and see that majority of them are men
And if your telling me that it's head cannon then what makes your statement
not head cannon?
your models are whatever you want them to be anon! Femarines are canon if its your personal models. All male Sob and Sos are canon if they're your models. Im talking about the overarching lore of the imperium.
Are you asking why men and woman are equally oppressed in 40k is canon? Uh its because of this line in every piece of 40k ficiton ever printed
>To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
Its worse than any regime or tyranny that has ever come before that kills its people on mass on a scale never before seen.
>infants on the front line is a great way to test the foul tyranid xenos acidic weapons to see how effective they are at melting human flesh. brilliant idea you're promoted!
Just got to make sure that 50% of the infants we're slaughtering are female. Because otherwise it's sexist and we can't be having that degeneracy.
You know it's been standard since 4th or 5th edition that your average cadian can service, strip, and fire a lasgun before they can walk right?
10 year old Cub Scouts know how to shoot rifles, but that doesn't mean they are the functional equivalents of professional soldiers
Yeah and the imperium doesn't care, this is the same thing that straps bombs to prisoners and points them at an enemy while ready to mow down any prisoner that flees. Or use humans to clear minefields, or uses mass conscription, or has literally entire regiments fricked into existence in transit to the warzone
>Hey anon are we humans now today evolving into psykers? can you hear whispering at the edge of your mind, summon warp energy to destroy your enemies? no? then maybe humans now and 40k humans are totally differently and again theres no strength or endurance difference between men and women in 40k, they're both just warm bodies to throw at problems
Humans always possessed psychic potential, moron. That's literally what the emperor is an ancient immortal psyker that was born thousands of years ago.
How do you not know this?
>Humans always possessed psychic potential, moron. That's literally what the emperor is an ancient immortal psyker that was born thousands of years ago.
>Believingthe in universe propoganda about the Emperors origins
oh no no no anon
Also are you seriously saying that because Big E in 40k had psyker powers since the dawn of humanity as he claimed, therefore we humans today in reality as players have psykic powers? Are you saying modern real people are the same as ficitional 40k people?
We dont have magic bro, and in the 40k in universe rules humans didn't have it in M2 either, besides like forture tellers have like omega level pyskic at best strength like the Tau do in M41
>Are you saying modern real people are the same as ficitional 40k people?
That's the whole fricking point moron. It's supposed to be the fricking future.
>hurr real life isn't the same as the fictional story! gotcha!
You really are fricking dumb.
anon 40k has fricking elves and ork's its warhammer fantasy in space. There whole 'its our future' is the weakest and worst part of the setting. 'wow Malcador has the Mona Lisa isnt that cool?' shits moronic
You're the one upset that a ficitional setting is doing ficitonal things like letting women into the gene enchanced super solider program that are glorified palace jannies
>It's a fictional setting with dragons and elves, why shouldn't Frodo drive a Toyota Corolla?
Get new material.
>Women warriors are as setting breaking as cars in middle earth
Culture war brainrot is real
No one i think is asying warrior women is breaking, they are saying that injecting them into existing factions is restarded.
Wanna know something i would have been really ok with?
Why not upgrade sisters? Why not introduce something like cawl making some sort of break through for tech and a better version of power armor for sisters that bumps their stat line up to astares. Boom problem fricking solved.
Then ok OK here is a cool fricking idea. How about GW actually not be shit at writting rules, ok, and make it so allied armies work again. so you can run marines and sisters together easily.
Wanna know hwy older editions are so good? and for example why say CSM 3.5 is regarded as one of the best codexes ever made? Because it let you blend in so much flavor shit into that faction and into armies.
>No one i think is asying warrior women is breaking
That anon certainly is. I agree that female Custodes is a blatant retcon for GW to cover their asses and appease the "we want female Astartes" crowd halfway.
We already have warrior women in the game and setting going way back to 3rd ed and beyond, frick howling banshees are one such example, a frick ton of eldar in general are mixed male and female.
Sisters of battle.
It really is. Why would the IoM have the same liberal attitudes to "gender roles" as we do? What moral lineage would that idea have? Why would it not be accompanied by other liberal ideas about tabular rasa and innate difference? What is the limiting factor, if at all?
>Humans always possessed psychic potential, moron
Like everyone of them? no, not every human has psycic potential. Being a psyker is technically a genetic mutation, not a learned skill, this is why house navigators are family based because their children are born navigators and with great psyker power.
>Like everyone of them? no, not every human has psycic potential
Everyone as in humans as a species, not everyone on the individual scale. Like how humans as a species have the potential to write symphonies, but most people actually don't.
Well, no, not every human has the potential to be a psyker, only those with the genetic mutation can be a psyker.
Humans can be psykers of course, but any random human cant just learn how to be a psyker unless they posse the genetic mutation or are mutated to gain it.
That's literally what I'm saying.
Humans possess the genetic potential to be psykers and always have possessed this potential. Just because humans as a species possess this potential doesn't mean though, that any human can become a psyker if they train real hard.
>That's literally what I'm saying.
Yeah im agreeing with you hah.
>can you hear whispering at the edge of your mind
Yeah
Still working on the other part
>incapable of following the reply chain
ESL?
Just because 40k is absurd does not mean it cannot be immersive and believable. What is required for immersion and believability is for it to be coherent, consistent and have a logical basis for what is happening in it.
One of the main aspects of the Imperium is that it is dedicated to maintain constant and endless wars. For that to be possible, it needs a constant and endless supply of soldiers. For that to be possible, many if not most worlds must be dedicated to facilitating that constant and endless supply of soldiers; thus their social laws would, in the majority of cases, have women being little more than baby-factories.
If there are worlds with no conscription, then sure, we might see the women forced to toil as a nameless, genderless, personless number that is dedicated towards providing food, munitions or whatever else that is required to bolster the Emperor's endless armies.
Having women serving in the military though? No, or at least only an extreme exception. If you make it the norm, it undermines the entire nature of the Imperium. It makes it unbelievable. Can you still create the occasional mixed or even female only faction? Of course, but there needs to be a good reason for it. Previous good reasons have leant on the religious nature of the Imperium to justify sects of fanatical nuns, or as the prized personal assassins of a perverse mad tyrant. I'm sure there could be some other good reasons too, but we have not seen them in recent times.
>Applying real life to tabletop games where people kill each other with chainsaw swords
So it's even more brutal than real life. How does that refute his point?
We're not talking about chaff thrown into the meat grinder by the millions. When you're talking about the pinnacle of combat prowess, they are going to be men, considering the immense difference in physical capabilities.
>B-b-b-but they modify them and enhance them!
You still wouldn't start out with somebody half as strong as an average man
>You still wouldn't start out with somebody half as strong as an average man
Anon this is the Imperium of Man we're talking about. Yes they would. Yes they can and they would sacrifice millions of men and women to do it if someone tried to stop them.
They make sevitors out of babys for religious/ honour reasons, they turn women into super soldiers as well. And remeber anon the custodes don't take the 'best of the best' they take noble sons of the elite on terra, inbred weaklings, the custodians project might just be able to turn anyone, even disabled people into the same super human baseline. the starting stock is probably totally irrelvant the process makes them all perfectly equal by the end
ok but why should they change established lore for this? Im not that annon but thats whats always bothered me, why should they change the status quo in justify female space marine's and custodes?
There are plenty of strong female warrior units and even factions.
Why the facination with retconning long established lore JUST to justify space marine and custodes?
>why should they change the status quo
GW does it constatly for everyone. the real meta reason? Well stormcasts eternals have a LOT of female heads, and GW likes cross use products between their 2 ips so female custodes = more stormcast kits sold is a win for them. ALL lore and fluff is window dressing for the cold hard business of miniture selling, and is changed on a whim accordingly
Why would GW changing it for everyone else make it okay for them to do it now?
Anf alot of people complain constantly about GW doing anything to a faction
>GW does it constatly for everyone.
Ok and everyone can play space marines, man or women, everyone can play sisters of battle man or woman so why change it?
>ALL lore and fluff is window dressing for the cold hard business of miniture selling, and is changed on a whim accordingly
This is the problem, this is how you only are able to tap into fair weather fans and drive away hard core one.
This is why i think GW is headed right for an iceberg thats going to be early 2000's levels of bad. Covid bucks are drying up, economy is going to shit, and the first hing that goes is luxury goods and hobby goods. GW has picked pandering and gutting of lore to appeal to the largest fan base to get as much money as they can, business just like you said, but tbecuase they showed they dont give a shit about lore, they lost a lot of the die hard fanbase. So i think they are going to end up getting rail roaded here soon enough.
Because its very obvious that whats good for the goose is good for the gander. if custodes do it, SM 100% will. This iIS the start of that.
>>ALL lore and fluff is window dressing for the cold hard business of miniture selling, and is changed on a whim accordingly
>This is the problem, this is how you only are able to tap into fair weather fans and drive away hard core one.
Exactly. When the company asking you to spend thousands of dollars to play their game tells you "lol nothing matters who cares" you can't expect anyone outside of addicted consumers to continue to be interested.
>to justify space marine
NTA isn't this entire conversation about Custodes? why are you talking about SM?
The custadards are basically the emperor's space marine to someone on the outside looking in
So people think GW would use female custards to push FSM
Sorta giving them the argument
"Why can't there be FSM? there are female custards! and they are 100% better then the SM, You're telling me that the imperium can afford female custards but not female SM?
also the Custodes are basically the premium version of the SM, they were the prototypes for the Spacemarines/primarch project, and like many prototypes they are generally better made because they are not for mass production.
>the custodians project might just be able to turn anyone, even disabled people into the same super human baseline
No they should not fix a cripple because the custode project start from before birth, each custode is genetically tailored. So if you dont come out perfect, you dont go into the program.
>So if you dont come out perfect
>Are drawn from the noble sons (and now daughters) of random noble families on Terra. Anon they are inbred to frick and back, they are grimdark hasburgs that get turned into golden armoured genius gods. They could probably cure autism and down syndrome via the custodian process which starts later in life than astartes, because its better so you don't need as earlier access to rewrite their biology
>Anon they are inbred to frick and back, they are grimdark hasburgs that get turned into golden armoured genius gods. They could probably cure autism and down syndrome via the custodian process which starts later in life than astartes, because its better so you don't need as earlier access to rewrite their biology
Now you're just making shit up, you rat bastard. The idea that the noble houses of earth were inbred, back during the time of the Emperor is fricking moronic.
nta but were there noble houses durng the age of strife and unification wars? wasn't everyone either a scientist making gene-warriors, making power armour or a slave to the techno-barbarian warlords? like its a global nucelar somilia with advanced weapon and tech labs scattered around. spire nobles came later?
Black person they are inbred NOW, what are they gonna do? Uninbreed eachother?
>Black person they are inbred NOW, what are they gonna do? Uninbreed eachother?
What do mean "now"?
What does the state of the Custodes "now" have to do with the Custodes as the Emperor created them?
>And remeber anon the custodes don't take the 'best of the best' they take noble sons of the elite on terra, inbred weaklings,
The nobles have the best food, quality of life, and education meaning their children quite literally have the highest chance of being the "best of the best" insofar as healthy children go. Beyond that though, becoming a Custodes is a great honor which is why the elite families are chosen.
>the custodians project might just be able to turn anyone, even disabled people into the same super human baseline.
>the starting stock is probably totally irrelvant the process makes them all perfectly equal by the end
Creating a Custodes (or an Astartes for that matter though the process is different) is incredibly expensive and has a very high likelihood of failure. I believe the source says only 1 out of 1000 hand-selected, prime candidates completes the process.
So they're definitely not going to "hand select" the kid in the wheel chair to undergo the grueling process to become paradigm of human super soldier. Maybe they could do that during the height of the Age of Technology where the baseline doesn't matter but the current Imperium is running on fumes and the fragments of lost tech. They're not picking polio-crutches Sally over chad Timmy.
Otherwise they'd make millions of Custodes and sweep the galaxy if they had the ability to attempt the process on a trillion people without caring.
>but muh fantasy logic
Okay. So if logic doesn't matter then do whatever the frick you want. Remove male and female altogether and do away with the innate sexism. Remove human disabilities. If we're severing all ties to reality for the sake of "inclusiveness" then let's go in full. The religion around the Emperor is problematic as well as it excludes atheists and non-monotheists. In fact, the whole "war" thing is problematic and reeks of toxic masculinity. The various races should use diplomacy exclusively to solve their differences.
>only 1 out of 1000 hand-selected, prime candidates completes the process
thats space marines. There is NO information about how custodes create more custodes, the procedure or the survival rate, it could be a 100% survival rate we literally do not know. All we know is that they take from the noble sons of spire nobles on Terra.
>Okay. So if logic doesn't matter then do whatever the frick you want.
yeah c**t is a TT game that uses fluff to sell minis and books to nerds.
>Remove male and female altogether and do away with the innate sexism.
That is how the Imperium views humanity yes, its one mass ensalved to the Emperor and dying Imperium
>Remove human disabilities.
Cybernetics
>The religion around the Emperor is problematic
Yeah thats literally the point its a nightmate theocratic living hell thats so bad theres even daemons help imperials fighting aganist it
>The whole "war" thing is problematic
Yeah c**t your on the money, its the grim dark future because theres only war, its a fricked dark and grim future because of that. GW are anti-war
>The various races should use diplomacy exclusively to solve their differences.
Thats the sensible thing to do yes, thats why the Tau do it and why the imperials shoot you for trying
>Yeah thats literally the point its a nightmate theocratic living hell thats so bad theres even daemons help imperials fighting aganist it
And the fact that some segments of the population think that they need "representation" in such a setting and that it will help solve the problems IRL is somewhat unnerving. You start to think that they missed the whole part about how evil Imperium is and that they really think that being part of the Imperium is cool.
eh I kinda get it, think about how people want unqiue warrior cultures like native americans, aztecs, celts to have their own astartes chapter? Its a crap piece of shit and everyone wants in because its fun being the victim of this nightmarish undying theocratic facist fedual imperium fighting daemons, extragalatic aliens and space elves and football hooligan orks
This. It's insane to me that these morons think they need representation; as if the nightmarish hellscape of the 41st millennium is supposed to be about them, rather than the nightmarish hellscape of the 41st millennium.
>thats space marines. There is NO information about how custodes create more custodes, the procedure or the survival rate, it could be a 100% survival rate we literally do not know. All we know is that they take from the noble sons of spire nobles on Terra.
1 out of 1000.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes#The_Firstborn
The process is even more grueling and demanding than the Astartes.
>That is how the Imperium views humanity yes, its one mass ensalved to the Emperor and dying Imperium
Slaughtering children, bathing in innocent blood, and sacrificing thousands daily to the "good" god is all perfectly acceptable in the setting - BUT don't you DARE segregate based on sex!
>Cybernetics
You know nothing about the 40k setting.
Technology in the Imperium is degrading and unreliable. The Adeptus Mechanicus require very specialized knowledge and constant upkeep to maintain their cybernetic modifications and even then they're still falling apart. The amount of bullshit required to maintain advanced machinery is quite literally a full-time job. It's also inferior to the genetic modification of the Custodes or Astartes since the end of the Age of Technology.
>uncited wiki entry, of the worst of the 3 40k wikis.
Codex citation or nothing anon
>Slaughtering children, bathing in innocent blood, and sacrificing thousands daily to the "good" god is all perfectly acceptable in the setting - BUT don't you DARE segregate based on sex!
you've got it backwards anon, they don't segregate basd on sex because they're okay with bathing in blood, killing babies to make cherubs, mass human sacrifce etc.
>The Adeptus Mechanicus require very specialized knowledge and constant upkeep to maintain their cybernetic modifications
No anon there not that bad with technology thats a more secondary meme. Their skitarri, their slave cybrog armies are filled to the gills with cybernetics so its cheap and mass produced for people/things they deem useful for them. The fact that astartes get sybernetics that are the same as their actual flesh and blood means that the Imperium has effectively developed technologically beyond physcial disabilitys, they have anti-grav tech (makes servo-skulls fly) so even if they you get robot legs you could glid. its that theres no universal access to the tech. its heavily controlled, so any disabled person in 40k is because people are all equally expendable and worthless (hence why woman and men are not segregated by sex anywhere but SoB and astartes)
>technology isn't degrading in 40k
>cybernetics aren't unreliable and require constant maintenance
Get the frick out of here. The AdMech literally don't turn off Ironstriders because they don't know how to turn them on anymore. There's thousands of examples of Imperial tech being in disarray and disrepair because developing new technology is borderline forbidden.
>(hence why woman and men are not segregated by sex anywhere but SoB and astartes)
Need a codex citation for that. Up until recently Custodes were also explicitly men.
Sisters of Silences are also all female.
So basically you're making shit up at this point.
>Need a codex citation for that. Up until recently Custodes were also explicitly men.
Anon if a codex doesn't explicity mention the all male or female nature of the org then its unisex. Its not a hard logic puzzle to solve.
Yes Sos and Sob are both all female. Same with the assassins temple that seem to all be gender specific. The all female assassins order kinda shows that using woman as a baseline stock does allow them to be superior to men with their gene-wizardy since they're fricking crazy and again astartes needing 'the best of the best genetic stock' is to show how corrupt and shit the gene seed has become over 10k years. its a point of weakness not pride
>Codex citation or nothing anon
So where's your codex citation for your claim that Custodes are selected from literal cripples, and baseline capabilities are irrelevant?
>Yes they can and they would sacrifice millions of men and women to do it if someone tried to stop them.
We're not talking about the Imperial Guard. Stop being disingenuous here. If they're grabbing random people, it still doesn't make sense to start with someone who is physically inferior. Stop trying to pretend that basic logic doesn't exist, so you can justify your weird ideological attachment to shoving women into everything. Just enjoy the many female characters, models, and factions which already exist and are fluff-consistent
>Stop trying to pretend that basic logic doesn't exist
When will you stop pretending the Imperium has any base logic or logic at all? its is an illogical decayed dead empire that is so bloated and massive it hasn't realised its dead yet. Why would the imperium make normal logical decisions like you and I would? theres quadrillions of humans under its thumb, possbly hundreds of quadrillions if not more. Thats why they use women because theres nothing and no one stopping it. They're all meat and again 40k people/humans are evolving as a species to become psykers. Thats the REAL threat to humanity the emperor tried and failed to protect the human species from. women being physically inferior to the top 20-40% of men doesn't play into it.
Female custodes is fricking weird and dumb but stop pretending that is a problem because the imperium is too logical to do that when it is not.
>Why would the imperium make normal logical decisions like you and I would
Because the individual people aren't moronic. If you've read the novels, they are perfectly intelligent people capable of reason and observation. The problems with the Imperium are due to its enormous bloat, the cultural momentum, the endless bureaucracy, and the fear of rocking the boat. Those things lead to massive inefficiencies, and problems not being corrected.
But NONE of that applies to a scientific military decision made by individuals. You may as well argue that it would be perfectly normal for them to poop their pants instead of using toilets, and to wear their shoes on their hands since they're bereft of logic and reasoning. How do people in this world even carry on their day to day lives? After all, they cannot possibly make individual decisions because apparently nobody has any mental faculties.
>Because the individual people aren't moronic
uhhhhhhhh
you might wanna check that again, the average person in 40k is fricking moronic. Like horribly horribly stupid moronic, or mideavial peasant level of intelligent. Guardsmen are on average a bit smarter because they need them to be to do their job, but the average citizen is dumb.
Based on what? None of the novels I have read nor any of the codices seem to suggest this.
Based on a lot of the extra lore. Underhives are basically just clans of people who are supersticious as frick.
Battlefleet gothic lore also goes into this, the crews aboard ships literally live and die on their decks and dont have an understanding of whats beyond their walls.
For fricks sake, people worship technology because no one knows how to fix it, you were punished if you tried to modify your weapons in the guard.
The average person is moronic in 40k. For ever 1 educated person even at a base level, there are about 100 menials and slaves that are stupid. Hell even the concept of low and high gothic reinforce this idea, low gothic is basically gutter speak, high gothic is normal speech.
Reminder your novels and characters you are reading about are not the average person, they are the above average, no one is reading stories about people who work in the factories and bowls of forgeworlds/ships.
I'm specifically talking about side and background characters in novels like Eisenhorn/Cain. I'm pretty sure two guys drinking in a bar or guard conscripts are not elite highly-educated exceptions.
Correct, but thats what im getting at, for every one guy thats you know part of the elite, which even the "Elite" are not that educated by our standards, there are hundreds if not thousands of moronic dregs of society running around.
The vast majority of humans in the 40k universe are moronic.
Eh i already went through my mourning process long ago, for me it was the 8th ed change, and the introduction of primaris, and the reduction of the statline with simplified rules.
I got into 40k for the rules that were present for 3rd - 7th, even during the shit show that was 6th and 7th, i liked it more then what it became 8th onwards.
40k was fatally wounded with 8th ed, it flat lined for me after psycic awakening. Anymore i just look at people either rooting for the maggots or the corpse at this point.
>(female cowardice)
>In 40k where woman make up half the guard
Anon in 40k there is no real difference between men and woman for the vast majority of the human race. They're both just warm meat sacks to be used, destroyed and discarded for the Imperium
>In 40k where woman make up half the guard
That's equally moronic and was never the case until nuGW started portraying it as such very recently.
>hmmm yes today i will form my army
>i have fifty billion trillion people but much less equipment and transport space
>will i recruit from the 25 billion trillion that are clearly more physically capable?
>no, i will equally recruit from the frail wimps that struggle to walk up hills with ammo on their backs without fracturing their hips
>this definitely won't get me executed by the administratum lmao
Dude, it's a fricking game. You're not getting executed irl for doing any of this shit.
Especially when they could be used as baby factories.
So you're admitting 40K never followed your logic in the first place and expecting it to start doing so now is naive and misguided?
>Having women serving in the military though? No, or at least only an extreme exception.
Well, they do, and in fact always have, and not in a James gaslighting way, so you're gonna need a different setting.
>in the first place
Women being any more than a small minority of the Imperial Guard is a very recent development in nulore you worthless zoomer homosexual.
>So you're admitting 40K never followed your logic in the first place and expecting it to start doing so now is naive and misguided?
Women being "10% of the Imperial Guard, mostly in rearline positions" was the lore for decades since it was the only comment ever made on the subject in the first Cain book. That actually made sense.
Of course that was written back in an era before everyone became pants-on-head moronic and determined to play pretend that women are exactly the same as men in every possible situation.
>Women being "10% of the Imperial Guard, mostly in rearline positions" was the lore for decades since it was in one BL slop and not a codex
Anon we know you hate woman and think their only purpose is to be violently raped to create more men but thats not how 40k works.
Woman and men are equal, they are both utterly oppressed by the 'the cruelest and bloodiest regime imaginable' and seen as nothing more than an infinite resource to be used by the Imperium.
They're equals in the guard, the PDF ,arbites and every organisation besides space marines and Sob
>Anon we know you hate woman and think their only purpose is to be violently raped to create more men
Wow, you must have some crazy psychic abilities to know that he meant something completely different from what he said
>Woman and men are equal,
Not physically, which matters when you're doing extremely difficult transmogrifications to create the perfect supersoldier.
>Woman and men are equal, Not physically
They are in 40k, but I meant like rights wise and their treatment by their government in general.
But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts, both have theor own hyper elite military orders that are bascially super human. What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
Why should we change the status quo of marines and custodes being only men?
When there exist already female exclusive armies / units in lore.
Because they have the writing capacity of a twitter OC page and the discrepancy of Chris Chan and his israeliteess gaslighter
Because the all female armies are unaugmented wimps. 40k is about supersoldiers.
Except they are not, they are still sv 3 and use the same arsenals as marines at this point.
They are super soldiers. There is no reason to inject female space marines.
>What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
Because that the reasoning that SM/Mechanics/Guard/Chaos use for why their troops are majority(If not all) are male.
>Because that the reasoning that SM/Mechanics/Guard/Chaos use for why their troops are majority(If not all) are male.
Thats your headcanon anon (besides space marines/ CSM)
It's not really
Majority of the guard are men and mechanics use males for their troops
It doesn't mean that there arn't any all female units in the guard
I'm pretty sure one of the Ciaphas Cain books had all female regiment that combined with a all male regiment
The Cain books even had a couple of dyke Imperial Guard iirc.
>They are in 40k, but I meant like rights wise and their treatment by their government in general.
That's not true at all. Governments vary from planet to planet, system to system. Some human worlds aren't even under the control of the wider Imperium.
>What is this obession with pushing reality of the average man being stronger than the average woman when discussing a war game where magic is a real in universe thing
What's the obsession with pushing to this political nonsense into the setting at the expense of established lore?
Jesus you own over 50 fedoras, don't you...
>But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts
But women and men are both equal warriors in 40k, same states as guard/red shirts
The stats have to encompass a scale that starts at floating roombas and ends at 100-foot tall war mechs. Humans are somewhere between an Ork and a Drone. Outside of rare exceptions like Marbo, humans are all STR 3.
Dude, that mostly because its INCREADBLY weird to make a near identical stat block just so a unit has 1 less strength
So your rebuttal is that it is head cannon?
Anyway this conversation is done
No my rebuttal is that what I said has been CANON since rogue trader you fricking moron. The conversation is done because you realised you lost.
>It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
It is so unreasonable shit to be alive in m41 gender specific discrimination is impossible because one gender cant be treated any worse than the other because they're both treated as badly as possible
>It is so unreasonable shit to be alive in m41 gender specific discrimination is impossible because one gender cant be treated any worse than the other because they're both treated as badly as possible
>Life of a factory worker on a hive world is exactly the same as life on Commoragh for a captured human.
You're moronic.
>Dude, that mostly because its INCREADBLY weird to make a near identical stat block just so a unit has 1 less strength
That's my point. It's nonsense to pretend the stat lines being equal are meant to account for differences within that group. A human is STR 3 because they're weaker than a Space Marine and stronger than a Tau drone. That encompasses both teenagers and bodybuilders.
>DA AUFORITIES TREAT DEM AS EQUALZZZ CUZ GRIMDARK
Okay.
Where are the six year old arbites.
Show me the drop trooper regiment of down syndrome sufferers.
Because that's no less moronic than using women for the job. Which according to you, no one in the imperium would ever care about.
In the real world, any healthy 15 yo male, can destroy any woman on the planet.
Any setting that doesn't follow that simple rule of male physical supremacy, become a farce, like american comics.
May no one count rivets ever again in a setting where female custodes or marines exist. Yes, my 5th edition skinks are totally legal crimson terminator, anti scalie bigot.
isnt the point of 40k that the galaxy is so fricked everyone needs to fight? Are you going to complain about Cadia using women too?
Yes, but custards aren't incidental cannon fodder.
His point seems quite relevant to me. There aren't many women dying in Ukraine right now. Why should 40k soldiers have so many more women, then?
Anon, 40k isn't real. IRL logic doesn't apply to its fictional world.
>men and and women are exactly the same and completely interchangeable cuz ummmmmm we said so!
>but noblewomen still wear frilly dresses
>and men still compete for love
>and women still get pregnant
>and basically every other social norm between men & women that are a direct result of their physical differences remains in place
>buuuut women just happen to be exactly as physically capable as men
>just cuz
And why is this a problem now?
At this point your not even sperging about the female Custodes, just the idea of women soldiers in general.
A relatively tiny group of religious fanatics based on nuns, who use power-of-money armour and weapons to negate any physical deficiencies, does not dramatically subvert gender roles and the entire human fricking race the same way as
>all men and women have the exact same physical capabilities
does
>custodes and space marines break all possible laws of physics
>I sleep
>women appear on stage
>Real shit
I'm so tired of being stuck between two camps of hysterical idiots, modern internet makes me wish for a nuclear winter. NOW.
Nuclear winter was literal Soviet propaganda anon. Learn to live in the real world that exists now instead of hoping for apocalyptic fantasies.
Doesn't care. Modern civilization is a mistake and needs a reboot. And it will happen sooner or later because history is cyclical, and all empires fall sooner or later because hedonism is rotting them from the inside. West is no different from its predecessors, sooner or later West will fall under the onslaught of barbarian hordes. And this is not a fantasy, but a fact proven by history.
>custodes and space marines break all possible laws of physics
Almost every player yells at how much wankery that the space marines get
No one "sleeps" on that besides SM fan boys
>women aren't the same as men and shouldn't be portrayed as such in every single fictional story
>WOWWWWW FRICKING HYSTERICAL!!!!
Just kys instead of wanting to take us with you, indoctrinated homosexual.
I mean, Russian 'men' fled Russia to avoid conscription.
Their fight was not to save their homeland.
>assertion of female behaviour based entirely on reality and thousands of years of history
>n-no UR THE COWARD!!1 ABLOOHOO
Yelling at women seems cruel, it doesn't fix any behavior, they just shrivel and hope that they don't get hit. It feels like yelling at a child.
Yelling at men is kind of normal.
>White knighting
>On /tg/
Some people never learn.
>but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no? It makes sense they can be crafted from women as well
That's exactly the problem here from a purely logical perspective. GW is still fricking garbage with numbers. If Custodes are his envisioned future for humanity then he would make them fertile, no? Then it stands to reason that Custodes should be the dominant force in the galaxy by now if women were included in the first 10,000?
Unironically this is the main issue.
Either custodes couldn't be made fertile, thus the Custodes are still an imperfection of the human form honestly this isn't THAT bad, but is still a major blemish to the custodes.
Or custodes are fertile, but have to have some convoluted handwave for why they aren't the dominant form of humanity. Either custodes give birth to normal humans, which is weird, or custodes attrition rates are much higher, which makes custodes suck, or increasing numbers of custodes are doing frick and all for thousands of years, which is moronic, or custodes CAN breed, but merely choose not to, which is double fricking moronic.
I'm not even opposed to the idea on principle if there's an elegant solution for it, but if there is I'm not seeing it. There's no way to do this without making the custodes either ludicrously incompetent, or else sabatoging the whole "perfect ideal of humanity" thing. That's the least awkward way of doing it, could even out some angst in the custodian psyche that they STILL aren't quite perfect, but, that's still awkward
But custodes aren't psykers, wasn't emps goal for humanity to evolve into their powers?
>But custodes aren't psykers
I'm confused since this changes nothing and is yet another reason why they're immune to the warp.
>Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity
They aren't by any stretch of the imagination. It's still a non issue, the banana gang are creations made for a purpose, this being a highly militarized cohort that is slaved to his will.
Synecius Thorn reads like a b***h here. He's flinging shit just to minimize his own crimes. Pathetic.
dang, no one dared to answer Anon's question.
Hoped to learn some Custodes lore.
It's already answered multiple times in this thread. They are made from the SONS of Terran nobility. They are WARRIORS and need to be the BEST POSSIBLE, so they are all male, because it is simply a fact that men make better warriors. It literally isn't disputable that they are, even the feminists will screech if you punch a b***h because womyn are inherently physically weaker.
nta but aren't custodes supposed to be tailored made to the idealized standards of the emperor? It's not like space marines who have geneseed shoved into them to make them haphazard factory made supersoliders. So in theory shouldn't femCustodes would be a slightly individualized 5-star meal like how other custodes are compared to the standardized meal prep that are space marines?
Plus they are made from a recruiting pool of children under five. Would their gender really matter at that point, if Big E is just gonna remake them at the molecular level? At least compared to space marines who have geneseed implanted into mostly preteens and teenagers for the most part.
>but Custodes are E's envisioned future for humanity no?
I don't know how many times it has to be said, but marines, custodes, whatever special force the emperor made, were all tools to safeguard humanity's evolution to a potent psyker race in safety. Custodes aren't the future for humanity.
Just got rid all of my 40k and GW stuff over this. First mtg now this. They really hate me and don't want my money
You fricked it by caring about what was canon
You fricked it by obsessing over lore
You fricked it by tolerating their bad business practice
You fricked it by being nogames and playing with grey models
You made it bad enough that they saw an entrypoint
The true gatekeepers make the quality too high for it to seem approachable
Your penance is historicals, where you will learn something, meet other Chuds and preserve European military glory
>Warhammer 40K was always shit.
It is, it's riggid and one dimensional. In the end i only liked it because big bulky cool space knights dudes in power armor.
You can find faults with anything if you nitpick hard enough, which is what you balding homosexuals on /tg/ are best at
At least I didn't castrate myself like trannies did to look like a female impostor
Biological man (male) btw.
Sorry that you aren't able to frick any trannies though, considering how obsessed you are with them.
homosexual
Yes yes, I know you crave troony wiener.
It's been shit since primaris were a thing. Before that it was fine in spite of the odd bit of cringe. Since primaris, it's been bland and cringe all the way.
my wife seems thrilled about femstodes, but not cause she wants to play 40k
when I brought up that "I guess they kind of soft-added female space marines now" her reaction was like "OH I guess we're getting out of 40k now!" She looked so goddamn happy. She didn't even let me explain either. She just thinks it means I'll never play warhammer again because I've said before if they add "official" femarines in lore, I'll probably disassociate with the setting. To her it just means I'm not going to go play anymore or buy another model.
Like I get it. The designs are ugly. Its expensive. The books read like they're for children. The models take up space and need their own desk for painting, etc. But like, shit is fun. Now she's holding me to my word and I don't know what to do with my weekends.
>Now she's holding me to my word and I don't know what to do with my weekends.
You don't have to buy any of the new shit, anon.
Oldhammer is just as timeless as ever
I rarely do buy new shit, I still play my 2e csm from early childhood. IMO I think thats why GW is hard for making femarines. They don't really want old fans meandering around with their oldschool standards, they want to flush us out and make 40k less bleak, more walmart friendly with more attractive heroes crusading around without moral ambiguity
I don't even mind femarines. If someone had them on the table I'd think they were cool. I just don't want the in-universe lore being changed for real-life trending politics
she's a weeb. She has thinly-veiled contempt for most western properties or games I play. I've tried to be like "haha yeah its dumb but I mean I think 40k isn't a bad setting and gets about as much attention as it deserves" but to her its just this setting about these chunky guys who just fight and then get pumped for the next battle. I blame some of the games. She watched me play some of Darktide and it was embarrassing for me because it mostly just confirmed what she thinks
If GW wanted female fans, they are doing all of the things females don't fricking care about, and nothing that they would actually like.The female characters they do add have buttfrick ugly faces. And the price. If GW actually gave a turd about inclusivity, they'd price things reasonably. Units are priced at levels for obsessive fanboys, not for black/female/whatever people they pretend to care about.
>she's a weeb. She has thinly-veiled contempt for most western properties or games I play
This does not strike me as very healthy. I'm sure she'd wouldn't be terribly pleased if you acted the same all the time.
>I don't even mind femarines
to be very fricking clear: I don't mind if someone put female heads and made up their own lore about why their custom chapter girls had a mutated geneseed or some strange reason they have (very rare) femarines. I just don't want them making a lore update to change the very way space marine society exists for IRL reasons. That kills the setting for me, but I'd never feel irked if someone made their own. Honestly I should have quit when they made Primaris in hindsight.
You might want to give this a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTe9cAdLY14
"Priestess in the Church by CS Lewis"
He argues among other things that the inherent differences in man and woman project an understanding or an essence onto those things which they are attached to. God the 'Father' might not have a gender in the way that we as humans do, and yet Him being understood in Masculine language confers a markedly different understanding relative to how a Goddess would be understood.
Christianity is by nature Patriarchal, and our understanding of the faith, its adherents, its workings and its manifestation is linked to that. It would cease to be Christianity as we know if we started referring to 'God the Father' as a woman, or if we allowed women to be Priestesses, to stand at the head of the congregation and preach to them. It would be unrecognisable as the Christianity we know today.
It is just so with 40k. I remember watching the Darktide trailers where they had some Asian woman as the 'Zealot'. It just did not feel like 40k with that. It should have been an elderly Englishman or German, perhaps even a Spaniard, screaming about purging filth in the name of the Emperor. It harkens back to the great Witch Hunters of England and Germany, perhaps even to the Spanish Inquisition. A sense of Zealotry blended with duty and a certainty of purpose.
An Asian woman trying to ape their behaviour just does not feel right. It has none of the connection to Christianity, to the witch hunters, to the inquisition; to real history, real events and a real 'essence' which was understood by those who enjoyed the fantastical re-imagining of them.
I feel a similar thing has been done with much of Warhammer. They have consistently changed the tone and feel of the universe to the point where it is barely recognisable to me as a fan from 20+ years ago.
There's space for people's made-up factions in the setting; but they cannot change the foundation, and they have.
I think it's that when it comes to games (western comics and other things), people don't take them seriously. They're corporate products. We all play games, but roughly half of the people who do are just wanting to waste time.
Game of Thrones has tons of female fans, and they all accept that the Nights Watch is a male-only faction. No one is asking for that to be changed, or demanding GRRM adjust the lore in his next novel. It they changed that, it would immediately make the rest of the work start to lose believably and be uninteresting.
People just don't take the settings within games as something that needs integrity. Some do, but there's enough people out there who view games as something to waste time with to invalidate that. If you DO care, they'll try to shame you for it but they can't do that with books because we have a long history of resisting censorship when it comes to print. Maybe we WILL start censoring books in the future but atleast not yet.
Female Astartes also kind of misses the point of the Marines. They're supposed to be a satirical take on "boys club" mentality. Any one with even slight media literacy could tell that it's not a coincidence that becoming an Astartes involves implanting another man's seed inside you and undergoing a bunch of physical pain and large chance of death to become God's pinnacle of manhood.
Everyone wanting female Space Marines just doesn't get this.
>They're supposed to be a satirical take on "boys club" mentality.
I disagree. That's a big claim to make. They're a fraternal order of zealous warrior-monks (but in space). If you can't appreciate that for what it is, it suggests some weird post-modern culture war problem with you.
>They're a fraternal order of zealous warrior-monks (but in space).
That's what I said, boys club mentality.
If you can't tell the distinction, you have had your brain rotted by post-modernism
Looking forward to reading your blog post about how your week wife that has nothing but contempt for you and what makes you happy tricks you into a MMF polycule then divorces you.
>she's a weeb.
homie that's no excuse to dislike things your spouse enjoys that much. My wife is a weeb who doesn't care for Western shit, and even though she's not a fan of Warhammer she's not gonna have contempt over it- like despite her having no interest in the setting she still likes to see what I can paint because she can appreciate art even if it's not to her taste.
Frick, there's even some bits and pieces she even appreciates despite not liking the game. I'm a DAgay and I jokingly suggested we should name the kid we're having Lion El' if it's a boy, and she's like 'that's actually a pretty neat name I like that.'
>she's a weeb. She has thinly-veiled contempt for most western properties or games I play. I've tried to be like "haha yeah its dumb but I mean I think 40k isn't a bad setting and gets about as much attention as it deserves" but to her its just this setting about these chunky guys who just fight and then get pumped for the next battle.
she sounds based, gimme her number when you get divorced
>its just this setting about these chunky guys who just fight and then get pumped for the next battle
lmao this is 100% correct though
Female Custodes makes no sense. Even if the people are modified or whatever, for the same reason that shoving females into any elite warrior caste makes sense; women are physically weaker than men. If you're taking the best of the best and the strongest of the strong to make elite warriors, you don't start out with someone that has half the strength/speed of the other potential inductees. It defies logic and is very very obviously just pandering to the woke DEI crowd for brownie points.
yeah it's not wrong at all, but there is cool stuff in the setting
it's not just that women are weaker, but that these genetically created weapons weren't made to replace humans. Making both sexes kind of implies that: They're just better versions of humans and should replace them, which I think is the opposite of what the Emperor wanted
>They're just better versions of humans and should replace them, which I think is the opposite of what the Emperor wanted
It is the oppostie of what he wanted.
Space marines and custodes were meant to be the idea of what humans could eventually be, not what they should be. They were created because they were needed to establish the IoM.
In lore also female and male space marines would be bad because it makes for the plot point of, what if marines just decided frick it, we will reproduce and make Astarte's from birth, that would make it so they are a replacement for humans which is not the goal.
>In lore also female and male space marines would be bad because it makes for the plot point of, what if marines just decided frick it, we will reproduce and make Astarte's from birth, that would make it so they are a replacement for humans which is not the goal.
I believe space marines are sterile. The process makes them incapable of reproduction.
They are sterile, but it opens up the conversation for that to happen, imagine if fricking fabius decided lol they can frick now.
Or hell even cawl decided their bits work now since apparently thats all it takes.
They're not, some space wolf frick because they are failure at being fighting monks.
One of their character has fathered many bastard.
Their psycho endoctrinment is supposed to replace any sexual pulse with obediance, devotion and ultra violence.
Emperor or Malcador have never said that all-male marines are that way because they shouldn't replace humans. Because that is not the reason. They can replace normies effectively by turning mortals into breeding slaves for initiates or daemonculabas and indeed Chaos Marines do things like that.
Marines are all male because Primarchs are all male and Primarchs are all male because Emps did not listen to Malcador and wanted a brotherhood. Warrior lodges and Heresy showed how that turned out.
>le black library retcon from long nosed fetishists.
If it wasn't in the 3rd edition at the latest, it doesn't exist.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a point of the Heresy that Horus just said "frick it, we Man now"?
I dont know about you, but giving the rest of the Imperium more reason to On Sight the Astartes is a pretty fricking cool development.
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a point of the Heresy that Horus just said "frick it, we Man now"?
No basically the reason the HH came to be was because Chaos told and convinced horus that the emperor was a dick and that he was just a tool for his own design and that once horus and his brothers fulfilled their purpose they would be disposed of, just like the thunder warriors were.
Horus did not like this because he still loved his sons and his brothers and did not like that they wre just seen as tools. So he rebelled basically saying "We will all be free to make our own choices and if we cant be, we let the galaxy burn."
It was not about them replacing humans, it was about htem being free from his fathers control.
IRONICALLY, Cawl ended up proving horus and chaos was right all along since the primaras basically confirmed what chaos said, space marines and primarchs are just tools waiting to be replaced.
Horus was possessed by chaos, so he wasn't really forming a coherent logical chain to what he hoped to achieve. More specifically, he was given visions by chaos (maybe false, maybe true - who knows) of a future where the Emperor discards like trash the Primarchs and the Astartes legions once they've done their job.
Horus felt betrayed and at the same time was given revelations to the benevolent sides of the Chaos Gods. This mixed with Horus' prideful nature pushed him over the edge.
While dying the chaos-taint left him and he was remorseful for his action.
So your wife has contempt for your hobby - something that makes you happy. I'd find that a lot more concerning than whatever GW is doing.
Do what I did when they ruined KT; make your own wargame.
Tourist here. I used to love Warhammer and half followed it for years since, played the hell out of pretty much all the video games that came out for it too.
Back when I was actually invested in the TT Necrons were still metal zombies of silence and death, there were no Primaris marines, and Grey Knights were seen as a lame Space Marine 2.0 (similar to Primaris I guess). I've semi-followed along with the outrages, hated the re-branding of of Necrons, hated Grey Knights, hated Primaris, hated them actually writing the legendary Primarchs at all (and especially as moronic teenagers; though I did like Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames; Flight of the Eisenstein and Fulgrim were also pretty good books).
Now, why does everyone care about Custodes? They were the elite golden guard of the Golden Throne, right? Are they now the Space Marines V.4.0 (GK2.0. Primaris3.0, Custodes4.0)? Or are they still some largely irrelevant ceremonial guard who do piss all because they stay in the most heavily defended part of the most heavily defend planet in the most heavily defender system? ... And that one time where they did have to fight during the Horus Heresy they did absolutely nothing implying they are super useless?
Why does everyone care about this foot note in 40k? Or did they become bigger than that? I don't follow the lore that closely, but I've pretty much never heard anything about the Custodes and don't get the outrage. Please explain for an ignorant tourist.
Hello there, I will explain a bit. Custodes were basically "Better" space marines way before Primaris came around. The special thing about them is that even though they are gene modified they are pretty much all natural (Yeah explain that shit). Basically if a Space Marine is basically god steroids then Custodes is just Baki character level of bullshit. Now, think about that and try to fit it onto a woman, now realize that Space Marines are basically steroids and worse custodes. Pretty much its a slippery slope if you can do it with natural bodies to make a woman custodes (Even though we got sisters of silence) then why not femarines? Pretty much hate it cause its GW wanting to add femarines but doing it via the boiling a frog method realizing that not many people play custodes and can just slap some tit armor onto the custodes models and because there aren't many models for custodes (about 20 models but like 8 with different poses and stuff).
Sounds like male Custodes don't make any sense either. How can a regular human be of similar or even greater ability than the Emperor's Finest Space Marines?
Are they supposed to be weird shaman-suicide-ritual-born super humans like lesser Emperors? I do not see how they could possibly be greater than Space Marines unless it was some BS like that. If it is that, I just want to say that lore is moronic and while I liked it as a potential mythical explanation, I liked it being one of many 'conspiracy theories' to explain the Emperor, a mythical beginning for him; and I do not like the idea of it becoming an established practice. Still, if it is that, I suppose it makes sense and could work even for women.
>How can a regular human be of similar or even greater ability than the Emperor's Finest Space Marines
They supposedly do some kind of cellular surgery. The reason it is not used for marines is because there is a much slimmer rate of survival, it is more costly, requires way more skill, and each is custom tailored. Compared to space marines slapping organs that reproduce inside other marines and require much less intensive treatment and work and it's pretty clear why marines are way more common
See that's already ruining the lore on multiple levels. The idea that other people could make a 'better' version of what the Emperor did takes away from the whole point of the Emperor as the stand-in for God, the Creator. The idea that Primaris are improved versions, or that Custodes are improved versions is stupid. Grey Knights were right on the line, because the OP nonsense with them was more to do with them having had insane experiences, and then lots more training, and then access to even better-er weapons than the Space Marines. It was stupid, but at least it kind of played by the same rules as the rest of the setting.
There's also something undesirable in having a 'cleaner' way to genetically enhance someone. 40k was always gloriously 'blocky' and 'angular', and that was more than just an aesthetic choice. It implied a sort of bulky, make-shift, pile-on approach to technology. No lean and sheek Asiatic or 'Tau' creations here; just industrial monstrosities more akin to the Orks, just with a religious overtone. The Space Marines being giant, hulking, multi-hearted barely-humans fit with the theme. It fit with the half mechanical tech-priests, with the mostly mechanical abominations that were techpriests; even with the regular citizens they'd give us glimpses of in the old-art, where scribes would have printers-fused to their lower-lips so that they could print off psalms of praise to the Emperor while they spoke it. It was gloriously inconvenient and unnatural.
This vision of the Custodes you have given me just does not fit. I hate it. Consider me a hater, not just of female Custodes, but of the Custodes in general.
The emperor made custodes though.
Primaris are dumb since a random made them, Grey Knights I have the same opinion as you.
Custodes isn't more "clean" it is just way more intensive and thus produces a better result, it is also less standardized
The Emperor made the Custodes too. They were supposed to be his friends and councilors and guardians.
Granted them being playable is moronic. They were supposed to be his guards, now having some of them participate in random wars makes no sense. Just be Space Marines to be elite warriors.
Interesting. Yeah, I suppose it sort of makes sense to have some 'shadowy circle of advisors who are beyond our mere human ability', but they should have remained absolutely miniscule in number, and had essentially no presence outside of harrowing portrayals of lowly mortans approaching the Golden Throne.
They should not even be emissaries, diplomats or people sent along as a sign of authority. That falls to either Inquisitors or some High Lord of a system.
If Custodes are supposed to be a military unit, then it entirely nullifies the purpose of the Space Marines as the elite of the elite who are small in number and are sent to the most pivotal battle-fields where the Imperium absolutely MUST win. Having an even elite-er force who are saved for even more pivotal-er scenarios is idiotic. It's having the same thing twice.
I could be okay with Custodes if they were either JUST the personal body guard of the Golden Throne and there are like 12-300 of them, or if they were some shadow-advisory council that basically advocate on behalf of the Emperor to the High Lords of Terra. Either way they would be so far beyond the stations of 99.999999% of the human race as to be almost irrelevant to any story unless its as additional theatre dressing to hallowed events on Terra.
Making them a playable faction has to be one of the most moronic ideas among the great slew of moronic ideas that GW have had in the last 2 decades.
I'm not deep into the lore, but has there been a trend of shitting on the emperor in recent books, or has that always been a thing? Like stuff I hear about the Emperor is that he is basically a fricking butthole. He's portrayed that way from excerpt I've seen posted.
Also I've seen it implied in certain places that Emperor wasn't even that good at his job. People imply marines are basically unfinished products and Belisarius Cawl could have done a better job. There's this general sense of shitting on the Emperor. Has it always been that way or is that a new undercurrent being pushed by the newer books/writers?
If I remember correctly:
Marines were always a flawed product meant for mass manufacture.
Primaris are supposed to be the fix for the marines. Marines 2.0.
Grey knights were made from the emperor's gene seed.
Custodes are supposed to be their own bespoke perfect gene seed with all the bells and whistles.
Custodes are handcrafted from the sons of the terran noble families, because these families are genetically the purest.
The process was not developped for females, it will means death.
If they break this lore, then there is no lore anymore because nothing is sacred.
>they all accept that the Nights Watch is a male-only faction.
Because they exist to mock celibate men, it's a punishment, you missed the author intent: he deeply vomit european culture and honor, he can't stand any ounce of it.
The Emperor's characterization is kind of inconsistent and he's made to be intentionally vague in his motivations.
>eople imply marines are basically unfinished products and Belisarius Cawl could have done a better job.
They were a rush job because the Emperor wanted to conquer the galaxy quickly. Cawl couldn't do a "better job" but after ten thousand years of studying the marines he was able to slightly improve them, that's it. I think people hardcore overreact on the Cawl thing.
The Custodes are still the cream of the crop in terms of transhumans and nothing anything Cawl has done has come close to them.
40k is a setting where the more writers are allowed to steal the mystique from events, the worse it gets.
Diversity/inclusivity. Now they can be pursuing diversity for a number of reasons - because they genuinely and naively believe in it, because they know it causes societies to become dysfunctional for their own benefit (killing things like unions/voting for example), because they think it will attract a wider audience, because they want that sweet blackrock money, because they have a huge inferiority complex, the reasons are endless and it also depends on the position of the person in charge. What doesn't change is that people have a sixth sense that tells them "this feels unnatural, doesn't make sense, and feels hamfisted in"
Unironically the best way to fight back is to lewd the frick out of the female Custodes. Nothing more that feminists hate than men sexualizing women.
GW would love you to do this and promote their shit
As long as you don't pay for their shit, no one should give a frick.
Not if it doesn't involve buying their product.
Promoting their product influences others to buy it.
Why? Give up. Move on. You lost.
The better idea is to take a page from Flashgitz and make your own 40k. Don’t become a slave to the IP.
>not many people play custodes
another tourist here (albeit i've been loregayging a little) but isn't that because custodes's jobs are to guarding the emperor's palace until gulliman think it would be a waste for someone as strong as them to be turtling around? and that led to few if not almost no one would play as custodes?
>Why does everyone care about this foot note in 40k?
it opens gate for chaos; after this there is no constant, every single thing can be changed into everything, lore, logic or fan base aside, basically Tzeentch win
>Thing is dirty
>Let’s just throw it in a septic tank, it’s already dirty so what difference does it make!
Excellent logic moron-kun
It's not even really about the female custodes it's that the company has given in to a demographic of people who hate Warhammer, hate the player base, don't play the game, and now they run things.
The whole thing is a deliberate flex against Space Marines.
homosexuals and trannies have been crying for years about
>abloo hoo we deserve female space marines!!!!
And never get them because space marines have such powerful cultural inertia within the fandom.
This makes the aforementioned homosexuals seethe. Because the posterboy best-of-the-best more elite warrior brotherhood is all-male.
They couldn't c**tify the Space Marines, so naturally they set their sights on the only warrior institution that's actually better than them, the Adeptus Custodes.
The whole thing is nothing more than a spiteful "haha!" to the people that don't want female space marines
>o-okay sure so the marines are all male...
>but custodes are EVEN BETTER than marines and THEY DO HAVE WHEMYN!
>HAHAH SUCK IT CHUDS! WARRIOR GRRRRRRLZ ARE BETTER THAN YOUR SILLY ALL-MALE MARINES!
That's it. It's a pissy spiteful dig.
A humiliation ritual, if you will.
Warhammer 40k was shit in the sense that McDonalds is shit. No one with half a brain thinks its the best out there, but nothing hits like a big mac can when you want one, or their shitty fries.
The problem now is 40k is jumping the shark here and the quality of their product dose not make up for this bullshit.
I finally understand that old boomer attitude. Between Navy Breachers, Kill Team, Knight Titans, Solar Auxilia in plastic, the Skitarii Marshal model... "Frick you, I got mine." The company can collapse or not, for all I mind.
Soon
Not marines but rogue trader bodyguard, à la Saddam Hussein.
40k has been shit since 5th edition.
>was always shit
Not anymore since Chuds Wokeshop officially confirmed that femstodes are canon which means all the custodes frick ups/loses in lore are because of them being worthless creations
I think the worst part about this, and to me the thing thats pissing me the most off about it is the insane amount of gaslighting GW is doing.
"There have always been female custodes"
No there have fricking not been, at all. If they would just say, we are adding them for reason xyz, i would still hate it, but them gaslighting like this is fricking insane.
God, if only GW could turn me into a woman too
Can someone TLDR oldcrons and newcrons for me?
From what I can tell old necron were chaos androids in space
GW then retconed them into being space Egyptian terminators
oh, that sounds better then
They were always space terminators
nucrons also added Egyptian cosplaying cyborgs at the top so they could have characters
No because oldcrons were mysterious and intimidating Terminators.
Now they're just space tomb kangs.
Recons like making genestealers into tyrannids and Necrons into a ancient robotic race are what I would say "Good" retcons.
The reason why they are "Good" is because they expand the faction giving them more depth.
Retcons like making the banana boys having banana girls don't expand on it at all.
If you look up at the thread you keep seeing people say that they will look the same to their male counterpart so why does it matter.
The reason why this matters is because they are only doing to add women, they are not making them a super special experimental solder for the custards. They are simply saying that some of the banana boys are also banana girls.
Oldcrons were flesh made metal slaves to star gods who would appear from seemingly nowhere to harvest lives to feed said star gods after they developed a taste for souls instead of suns.
Newcrons are just tomb kings in space.
>The universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...
Anon Custard guard are just as worthless and expendable as anyone else, thats why they're an army. People give them more vbalue than their worth due to their connection to the dead emperor but really, at the end of the day they could all die and nothing changes.
You've missed the point of 40k, read the older material and reflect on your mistake
Pulp literature, which is what WH lore amounts to, requires familiar archetypes to retain verisimilitude. Women do not inhabit the archetype the Custodes represent.
If any archetype is solely for men, it is the capacity for violence and ability to tank it. Hence any elite fighting force that exemplifies dishing and taking it should be men unless there is good reason for it, eg: the fighting is not done physically, or is done by proxy.
Women as fighters inhabit other archetypes, such as faith in ideology, tenacity, enforcers of orthodoxy, or as means of representing desperation in defense.
These archetypes might be reductive, but that's what they're for. It's visual shorthand, and an abstraction of core ideals. Hence, the desire to change it, and the resistance to it. Changing it reflects a change in the core ideals.
I'm no Warhammergay beyond vidya, at least since leaving secondary education, so this isn't my fight. I do hope you get a successful boycott going.
Ohhhh, I get it. Your daddy never taught you to work it out for yourselves, so you're still clinging to outdated concepts of masculinity others picked for you rather than putting the work in to figure out what a Man is made of once you take away the violence and self-destructive idealizations propped up by rich buttholes who just want you to die in a war.
I'm sorry the modern world has trampled you so. But it's also on you to figure out what means anything to you. I'm doubly sorry you place your values in a for-profit fiction.
What do you think masculinity is?
Describe it.
It's a work in progress of life testing you and you testing yourself every day through your choices trying real hard not to put yourself before your kin. It's leading from the front and setting an example of humility, compassion, and strength to those before you. Oh, and knowing how to roll with the punches.
Wow anon that is a good way to describe that
You just described leadership. Being a man is more than leadership.
Exactly, the capacity for violence. Men are the self-sacrificial sex, who take on the role of violence and risk giver and taker. The idealistic standard is to put that to use for the betterment of you kin, and the negative, for their detriment. The neutral state is merely violence.
Exactly, the core ideals are being changed.
What is the essence of a man if not violence? It's the one thing men are built for, and it is the basis of men's status in society. It is why men are expendable, why women demand sex-segregated spaces, why men live shorter and more violent lives, etc. It's a value-neutral thing, neither to be celebrated nor denigrated. It is what *is*, rather than what *ought*. No amount of social engineering can change that base reality, only alienate men from it. And that's, really, what's happening here. Alienating men out of a sense of what ought to be.
Besides there being other aspects of masculinity, you're conflating violence with dominance.
Dominance can include but is not limited to the use of or propensity for violence
>you're conflating violence with dominance.
No I'm not, you are. Being domineering is one use of men's violence, sure. Men use their capacity for violence to do other things, however, and furthermore they do it at other's behest. The base state of a man is simply violence, the ideal is where that capacity is directed.
Again, you are confusing what is with what ought to be. You are right that the Ideal Man puts his capacity for violence to use in the betterment of others, but a man that does not do that isn't acting unlike men do. The essence of a thing is not the ideal representation, it is what is in common with the best and worst of it.
Yes, violence is indeed of Men. The responsibility of the Men is to do better with that. What is is what is. The point of living is to grow beyond and within that. It's a scale that must be balanced and nurtured constantly, for it is the weight of the world pushing down on either end every day until your last breath.
Absolutely. Hence, the self sacrifice of men as instruments of violence on behalf of others and for an ideology they truly believe is a common archetype, which is why Custodes and Astartes should be men.
Oh, I don't much care about that. Astartes are as removed from Men as a labradoodle is from a wolf. The color of their armor is just telling me where to aim.
All dominance stems from a capacity to commit violence. Violence is the ultimate arbiter of power
Therefore, it falls upon us men to adapt and re-define the concept of masculinity. And, taking a page out of the feminists' playbook, we must understand that in the wax and wane of history's meandering rivers, masculinity must be constantly redefining itself the same way the present is always in a state of change. Men are physically strong and capable of great violence, indeed. Yet it behooves us as Men to overcome our baser natures. And it is this capacity of choice to overcome and learn how to overcome that separates us from the base claws and teeth of nature.
>masculinity must be constantly redefining itself
>There's nothing wrong with being a cuck. If anything, I'm more manly for sharing my wife
>Cuckoldry out of nowhere
Someone has a fetish
If that's the first place your head went to for a counter argument, you're far beyond any help I could provide.
you're a gay loser and 40k adding women custodes is moronic and gay
>clinging to outdated concepts of masculinity others picked for you
Social prescriptivist
>propped up by rich buttholes
Commie homosexual
Opinion disregarded
That's not what prescriptivism means. Telling you how you're doing today and how you've failed as a man is descriptivism.
Prescriptivism would be to then tell you to go play in traffic.
Nta or any of these chuds but you're not only wrong, you're also a moron and should have a nice day for making the handful of non-reactionaries in the hobby look bad.
You're unintelligently talking about grammatical prescriptivism. What that moron was talking about was 'Universal Prescriptivism' which is a half-baked ethical philosophy that not many people actually understand.
Apologies for my ignorance, I'm heavily unaware of current era culture war twitter schizopolitik. And I'd like to keep it that way.
Also, go frick your uncle, I'm too busy fondling your mother to kill myself.
don't worry moron you'll probably trip in front of a moving car or something in the near future, if you're too stupid to google simple concepts before posting about them.
>Finally getting rid of chuds
centrist libs like you are no better and we're going to frick with you just as hard in the coming years
I might die stupid, but I sure as shit ain't ever dying as angry as you, bud :^)
Ah, beauty. Finally getting rid of chuds. With that said, yes. It was a parody of fantasy/scyfy. That was the point. It was never serious, never was supposed to be, and it was a giant joke created from being unable to sell D&D minis. Warhammer took the tropes and went up to 11. Dwarves keep grudges? Sure, let's have them have a book of grudges. Badass space marines? Yep, genetically engineered monsters. Militant atheism? Literally, but also taking the religious organization. Hypocrisy of the highest level at the highest points? Yep.
But then between the late 90s and early 2000s some idiots started taking it seriously. Just fricking enjoy the parody.
Shit is basically a Michael Moorwiener and Nemesis the Warlock crossover with the heavy metal aesthetic taken up to 11 and adding additional ripoffs of whatever the developers were fans of at the moment like Judge Dredd.
>Who cares if it makes sense or maintains verisimilitude? You're not supposed to care about it at all. And that's why I am arguing to support this particular version of the setting
If you don't care, then frick off and stop trying to shit on people who are invested in the setting or a mediocre wargame
>people who don't even play the game or buy the models are getting mad over a small change
If you can make a perfect female without all the "bad" stuff that actually makes a women(i.e. shit tests, whoring, feelings, etc. A perfect human with a womb...then what the frick is Fabius Bile even bothering with?
This just completely invalidates a major storyline they had for a Major character. His "new men" and reason for existing beyond his clones is now null if you could always just make a female custodes and make babies with them. If they can't breed then why the frick would you bother turning them everything they are and removing anything that even remotely resembles female?
Fabulous Bill seeks to replicate a primarch, which neither him or Cawl have been able to do (the primarch clones without warp mojo may be custodes tier).
That's not true. Bile has recreated every primarch already. The only guaranteed one still around alive is the perfect full Fulgrim clone at that necron nerds place
Fabius Bile doesn't have the same genetic engineering knowledge as the Emperor
The latter created several distinct flavors of superhuman warrior (including the primarchs) while the other is making imitations using his own understanding and methods
So can anyone give a good reason as to why they SHOULD add female space marines? I keep seeing argue reasons why they should not, but no one really has ever given me a good reason as to why they should go against established lore for any other reason besides some weird form of inclusion.
army men in space sales
it’s delusional and wrong because the subset of women who get into 40K are the brain damaged outcast type who want to get fricked by vampires and dinosaurs and shit so they already get into factions like tyranids
In the books I've read, the faces of space marines suffer from gigantism, they're all big and square. Do custodes have the same issues? Would female custodes have big square man faces?
They would its actually one of the funnything about female custodes or female marines that i have pointed out.
They are 100% not about being inclusive its about just not wanting a male only space.
The process of turning into a space mariens or custode makes you a massive hulk of muscle, bone, steel, and everything inbetween, so as a result, a female space marine or custode would be completely indistinguishable from a male, because their muscle mass would be huge as well.
That means the only way you can identify if a marine is a female or a male is by amplyfying their secondary sex organs, IE their breasts, or making them more shapely, IE feminine.
As a result, you end up sexualizing the female version, which goes against the entire point of the argument for having them because its sexist to NOT have them.
So the only way you would be able to tell a space marine female appart is by making it sexist with boob plate or feminine features all in the name to fight sexism and male space.
Well the thing is
people are using that argument for a reason why there should be FSM
"They will all look the same so why would it matter?"
That sorta stuff
Its better to not think of them wanting females and more as them wanting to push their ideas
>"They will all look the same so why would it matter?"
To which you argue, "Ok if they will all look the same, why make the change in the first place?"
Like the more you look into the lore and reason the more none of it would make any sense which is why i find that 99% of the people arguing for it, dont read or think about the lore at all.
Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby because they dont care about the fundamental aspect that holds the setting and story up in the first place.
If lore does not matter, none of it does.
>Which reminder if anyone says "well who cares" or dismisses the lore or wants to rewrite it is not a healthy person to have in the hobby
Ding ding ding. Their hobby is trying to piss all over things that "chuds" enjoy, not Warhammer/MTG/etc
This. It's a disingenuous argument. if nobody cares, then it didn't need to change to begin with.
Except the people who have wanted to rewrite the lore is GW themselves and they've been doing that since the very beginning, they've been structurally been apart of the making of the lore since the very beginning, retcons didn't become a problem for you until they started adding women and nonwhites to your boys club
Not true, it was fine allthe way through 5th ed, it was even ok thorugh 6th and 7th with a few problem child lore bits like Gray knights. It went off the fricking rails 8th onward.
Its not GW as a whole, its the new age GW thats fricking everything up.
The change will just be "female-coded", stern, ugly heads. Amazing thing to nuke half your fanbase over, but that's really all they can do. Any physical difference beyond that, even height, will be seen as sexism.
It's worse than that, if they even had breasts, it wouldn't make any sense from a lore standpoint.
You're telling me that this space marine is having 19 organs sewn into her to increase combat prowess, but not getting a mastectomy?
>You're telling me that this space marine is having 19 organs sewn into her to increase combat prowess, but not getting a mastectomy?
This just oozes feminine archetypal behaviour.
Seriously though, tell the average man (teenage boy) that he could have his body sculpted into an ultimate killing man-machine, he would likely be delighted.
A woman (or especially a teenage girl), even one that enjoys combat sports or body modification, would be horrified.
This is essentially the problem with the idea.
My teenage boy self would be very apprehensive at the "risk of death" part.
Well, with FSM I think its also implied almost every chapter does culling rituals too
So I don't know if lefty fans really know what that implies, or if they like the idea of an 11 year old girl getting her brains bashed out by a similarly aged boy during one of these contests to narrow down selection
I don't understand leftist going into Warhammer 40k in general.
There is an entire cast of people who get their personalities wiped so they can do minimal jobs forever so slavery
Alot of the population supplements their diet with other people using corpse starch
The local police are more brutal to the general populace and they are justified in doing so
Almost every rebellion isn't really done because the working class is rising up against the "man" But is because evil gods tell them to or they got raped by alien
If you make a feel good story In the universe about some noble transitioning you not only have to deal with starving kids in Africa, but those kids being taken by the government to be turned into killers or slaves, being eaten by mushrooms or bugs, Being turned into a chair for a sadomasochistic or getting their eternal soul dammed because some demon got close to them.
But I dont get it, Satan.
Why would my personal psycho-politik stop me from enjoying a horror story?
I meant people trying to push their politics into it.
>rrreeee, masculinity is violence
>meanwhile "masculinity" in question
I'm so glad I got out of the Warhammer boat in the mid-2000s. May Warhammer remain in my memory as a hobby for edgy teenagers, not for fat incels.
okay then, why are you here?
Laugh at losers
And I always thought it was like chess, but more fun, how wrong I was, thank you for explaining, I have one question - have you already paid $18000 for "Alpha Male Boot Camp" or are you just planning to?
Chess is an abstraction of violence.
Ok pigeon.
Back to Facebook, boomer.
How's the transition going? Don't forget to dilate thrice today, hon
Wargaming is literally an abstraction of violence.
>Dorks who paint models and read comics about manly-men doing cool things aren't gigachads themselves
This is not anything new. Guys still like masculinity, even if they aren't out there doing it
wh40k died with Emperor TTS.
>regularily culling the most aggressive from populations all across the Empire and having the mind-wiped as older men inject their gene seed into them was a giant social engineering project.
>The fact that Space Marines also fight rather well doesn't acutally matter all that much.
Search your heart, you know it to be true.
If there are no models for this and there won't be for a long time, I bet they'll push their appearance in a video game (since I don't think Cavill's show will come on anytime soon). What's the next 40k game anyway? Space Marine 2? Some card game? People will forget about this then the video game comes, and then GW will judge public reaction to it. The novel and the tweet isn't enough for them to gauge it.
I was actually totally on the fence about this even being an issue at all until I saw the shills ITT who were arguing in favor for it. moronic twitterlib mongoloids arguing in bad faith really poisoned the well for me, if it was alt right dweebs trying to falseflag it worked like a charm, because this shit has turned me off of 40k pretty hard
eh, it was getting to be an expensive hobby anyways. gives me an excuse to start buying other things instead
lefties have a weird brain disesase where they imagine that fiction is presciptivist and that you can't possibly depict unambiguously evil groups of people. so because of this fictional evil empires have to embrace weird modern liberalism and multiculturalism so they can be good evil empires, I guess. liberals are silly and unserious
>lefties have a weird brain disesase where they imagine that fiction is presciptivist
It's because they are incapable of abstraction and thus cannot create anything which doesn't align with their worldview. They project their "everything is an attempt at ideological subversion and manipulation" behavior onto everybody. So you can write a story about evil snakes in a forest trying to eat mouse people and they will still find some way to make it about communism or trannies or black people
Quite literally every major release pisses off major segments of fanbase.
They actively frick the rules and competitive scenes to ensure they sell the newer models/rulebooks.
Pretty sure I've seen posted somewhere an interview where leadership says that they essentially don't care about keeping players. Their business model is centered around constantly bringing in new people, not selling to returning people.
They've never given a shit about you at all.
The only sane thing to do would be a project akin to what Paizo did with Pathfinder, not continuing to support a company that doesn't care enough about you to hate you.
The moment GW became a PLC it was doomed.
Nope. It was fine before 5th ED rattled the cage hard.
1st ED was more fun and satire.
Editions from 2 to 3 were where the game was growing its pair.
4th ED was the peak lore-wise and would've been perfect if the Squats were not squatted.
5th is where the cracks appeared and Ultramarines almost became universally hated.
EDs from 6 to 7 were still somehow tolerable but it was not the same anymore.
ED 8 and onwards is where 40K lost literally everything.
Really, it was always going to be this way because the positive case for not making such changes was never made, and never shared by the creators or custodians of lore. There was always a tacit belief in the liberal conventions that inexorably lead us here. If IoM had been characterised explicitly as sexist and racist from the start, and kept that way, we would not have this problem today. We would have new problems, but not this one.
>Completely abandoned a game and told the fans to go frick themselves multiple times.
>Basically been forcing players to bench their SM armies in favor of SM: By larger.
>Flat out told fan content creators to frick off in favor of their dog shit streaming service.
>Recently told beastman players to either rebase and play a completely different game or go frick themselves.
>all of the other bullshit like outrageous prices, dumbass rules, constant nerfs/buffs to get you to buy new models.
THat's just what I can think of off the top of my head, they've been c**ts since the late 90s.
I'm just glad the other Wargames I've been interested in aren't in the "Zeitgeist' or whatever you call it, don't have teeth gnashing c**ts showing up to anything that isn't popular.
>War-kiddies eating piles of femshit while SW Chads keep on winning
Thats the problem, you want to know why Star War/Lotr etc still exist even with all the failure? BlackRock ESG money, as long as your popular and useful, they'll prop you up and let you keep being incompetent frickwads to spread the Message. ITs never about the money with these people. Once GW gets outside investment, the activists in the company will steer it straight down the drain and still make shitty product with ESG money
This is why the "go woke go broke" slogan is almost on point, but not quite.
Its actually "Go public, go broke" Same thing with video game companies, once they go publicly traded, its a downward spiral.
ESG got scrapped by blackrockyou fricking moron.
Only recently, its still waiting to trickle downhill i think.
They phasing out the term ESG because of the stigma. The money is still there, which is all that really matters.
No, they scrapped the term only. They're still pushing the same shit, they'll just call it something else.
So the custodes are getting feminized, and slaanesh daemons got a lot of women, and transformers are set on taking the adeptas sororitas and sisters of silence.
What based factions are still left?
Orks I know, maybe necrons?
The setting itself is compromised. Boycott and move on.
>Orks I know
Orks can be seen as nonbinary due to their reproductive nature
>maybe necrons
"Before biotransference, I never felt comfortable within my own body. Now ever since I past through the cyclopean furnaces, I have become the woman I knew I always was" - Phaerakh Ma'nhud
Orkz are singular, there is no existing binary besides being an ork and not being and ork.
Orkz have no women, they have no needed representation. All they do is WAAAAGH.
Anon, if your house burns down but for a single room, you still move out of the ruins.
URETHRA!
I'll make my own tabletop wargame in a vague scifi setting, build a company that prints the models and sells game books, and dethrone Games Workshop! Why didn't I think of that before?
>All this because of BlackRock
Why did she do it?
One positive from this announcement is that the "muh female space marines" people are going to shut up now. Right, guys?
You guys have my greatest sympathy, it is never pleasant when things you like get changed like this.
To be fair I was already out when primaris became a thing and I'd already been on the print train. It just sucks that they fricked up what was already established for no other reason than petty politics. I can tolerate them just making the setting shit through bad writing, but I won't tolerate the spite and disrespect.
Doomposting
4-K lore changes between editions and worse, between army codex books in a given edition. Literally who cares.
See
Tinfoil hat time -
The only reason female custodes are retconned now is because custodes will be featured prominently in Henry Cavill's Warhammer TV show and they want to have guys and gals on screen for it.
>they want to have guys and gals
Amazon mandate certain proportions of browns, women, and queers. It was over before it began.
I know I shouldnt link to plebbit but the arrogance of some people. Imagine saying femstodes are correct because pro femstodes posts get more le updoots. Pathetic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c51r5r/i_honestly_dont_care_but_its_still_funny_to_watch/kzspzhz/
Reddit and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
It does because humanity works via crushing the opposition through numbers.
If you don't have the numbers to hold your position, you get crushed out of history.
Simple enough.
Demographics is destiny. Upvotes is destiny.
If I want mass demographics I use the guard. And the what? 12 other mixed gender factions work fine in that regard.
soon... they're coming back
These are absolutely hilarious, but what are they and what are they from?
Pygmies C27 from Warhammer (Fantasy) 2nd-3rd edition.
With names like Umpopo, Ugh, Agh, Bongo, Og and Arg.
This female empowerment bullshit is frankly insidious and vehemently anti-male.
Women are valued through their ability to reproduce. Their womb and the entire principle of pregnancy is what afford inherent value to their gender. It is the very basis of the female experience - no matter what uppity bulldykes might want to think. Their ability to carry children is their reason to exist within the human gender dichotomy.
Mens' reason to exist within the gender dichotomy is to provide, protect, and self-sacrifice if necessary. It's core to the male experience of life. Men are not needed as much as women to maintain reproduction, so men developed to be better and more necessary for all the other parts of maintaining a society.
But what, 40k is basically saying that the thing that makes men special compared to women, that makes them 'necessary', compared to women, just doesn't exist.
Not only are women the ones who get pregnant - and thus are the valuable lynchpin for human reproduction - they're ALSO just as physically capable and competent as men?
You're robbing men of their entire reason to exist. In such a setting, wouldn't the species just be like 95% female and 5% males who have no purpose beyond serving as disposable sperm donors? Since, you know, the stronk womarinos can do literally everything just as well as men anyway, AND have the precious wombs.
If it was just one or two fictional settings here or there I wouldn't care. But it's EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Every single setting, fictional piece, story, and even real-life ideology essentially has to deny that men have any real reason to exist.
It's fricking disgusting.
It would be as dehumanising as making a setting where men can get pregnant just as easily as women, but women remain the smaller, slower,weaker sex. You are robbing them of any reason to exist at all. You're just making them objectively worse human beings.