?si=VSn0770JZLUb3Rkf&t=19722
>So, in Modern Parlance:
>Final Fantasy 3 was a massive casualisation of the series
>Final Fantasy 4 removed all it's RPG elements
>And Final Fantasy 6 turned the series into a Movie Game where you just watch cutscenes
>All huge betrayals of everything Final Fantasy was built on. All changes designed to appeal to new players rather than old. And all changes that sacrificed some element of what made this series work.
>And yet these were all changes that had incredible upsides, which created entirely new experiences, and are the reasons many people came to be fans of the series. That is how Final Fantasy has always been
Damn. Gott'a say, he completely changed my mind about 16, and the way everyone here's been talking about it like some betrayal of the series or the franchise, I might have to check it out when it drops on PC after all.
7 (and crisis core and 7 remake) and to a lesser extent 8 are the only ones I liked. I didn't like 9,10,12,13 or 15. I didn't play the 2d ones.
I've never dreamed of even trying what he did, and playing the entire series back to back, but I'd say I like more than I dislike.
5, 6, 7, 9 and 10 were all great. I love 14's story, and I enjoyed my time with 1, 2 and 3 enough to understand why they were special when they came out.
The series greatest betrayal was also its greatest entry.
This is what FF should have looked like moving forward instead of what we got.
Funny enough he argues similarly, that 12 is horribly overhated and deserves more of a shake than it got. A lot of the criticism 12 gets, like how the combat works, was a product of it's time.
In the early-mid 00's, Turn Based Combat was seen as obsolete and got lambasted everywhere from the press to the forums, to the fanbases, so moving to an action system seemed like the only way the series could maintain any kind of forward momentum. It misses a trick with how Gambits end up playing the game better than you, but for the time it was released in, the combat system makes complete sense.
It's my personal favourite for sure.
That's why I linked to the conclusion, which makes the point he's reached succinctly, mostly drawing into the way that for every FF after X, the community and press have left them in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.
Who is the girl on the right? Is it the Lix village girl, that likes Butz? Stella? The dancing girl?
It's one of the enemies, illusionist or charmer I think. She always appears with a frog that turns into a dragon.
I think it's this girl: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zephyrus
I don't remember why Bartz is tickling her.
Ah, no, she's this one: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Alchymia
12 is the worst fricking piece of absolute shit they have ever released
Is this offline MMO trash not exactly what we have now?
I like Neverknowsbest but he's an MMO gay that would obviously like the single player MMO game more than the average person. He's just numbed himself to plodding through giant empty maps full of trash for decades
Based. So much of the game feels like an evolution of the series, but unfortunately plebs got filtered. Sad!
The gameplay in this is insanely boring. Its like an MMO and I despise MMOs. Pure tedium.
5 is the best one
homie im not watching your 5 hour essay, frick off
Yeah but after 9 it changed to shit
It doesnt really matter ifnit chances everytime. In older games you can feel that wizardry drpg, though a little more story focused, inspiration.
In more recent games, It is final fantasy only in aesthetics. All else is lost.
You're showing your age. Even back then people complained that 6, 7, 8, etc. were all "not Final Fantasy anymore." It happened every fricking release
and I'm supposed to believe your anecdote that happens to align with your argument?
Believe it or not I don't care, that's what happened.
Knowing that 6 got that treatment is funny considering how its an all time classic.
I'm really curious to play XVI on PC to see what everybody's complaining about.
>People are moronic complainers
Shocking revelation
>In older games you can feel that wizardry drpg
That's only really relevant to 1 and maybe 2. The only thing 3 has in common with Wizardry is the Spell Slots system, and after 4 got rid of that it's all ogre.
>In more recent games, It is final fantasy only in aesthetics. All else is lost.
But the point being made is that 3 was nothing like 2 (2 was dark and serious, while 3 was lighthearted and silly) 4 was nothing like 3, 5 was nothing like 4, 6 was nothing like 5, and so on and so forth.
7 gave us a cyberpunk city, far beyond the mecha from 6, 8 gave us it's whacked out worlds and everything beyond that's gone all over the place. Can you say Final Fantasy is about the story? No, the first 3 games barely had one. Was it about the exploration? Half the series doesn't have that?
Saying "It's Final Fantasy only in aesthetics" is no different to saying SOVL/SOULLESS, it's just meaningless. And the fact that it's been attributed to every FF game I can remember since 7 sells that point.
>7 gave us a cyberpunk city, far beyond the mecha from 6, 8 gave us it's whacked out worlds and everything beyond that's gone all over the place.
Goddamn this really puts into perspective on how fricking boring 16's setting is.
Look, I know It changes every installment. But there is a lot of common ground sagres by games from ff1 to ffx.
And even ff12 and ff13, though really different, still kept being rpgs
FFXV and especially FFXVI gave up on being RPGs at all.
Id be lying to myself if I said I thought that a change in setting or the inclusion or removal of ATB bars are as drastic a change as the ones that more modern FFs have been through
>FFXV and especially FFXVI gave up on being RPGs at all.
Like 4? And 6? And 8?
The last time Final Fantasy seriously tried to be an RPG was 2, and the reception to it's Elder Scroll style levelling was negative enough that they never tried it again. Even if you define "being an RPG" strictly in terms of a progression system, 16 has more of one than half the franchise.
>it's Elder Scroll style levelling was negative enough that they never tried it again
Yeah, that's why SaGa 1, AKA Final Fantasy Legends was the first million seller for Square despite having the same exact system on top of other systems, right? Because the reception was supposedly so negative.
They never tried it again because they didn't have any designer intelligent enough to do something like that again and because once Kawazu left there was nobody left who cared about the GAME part of the games.
>SaGa 1,
literally who franchise for incels
I know ZERO IRL people that played SaGA, not even limiting myself to SAGA 1 here.
>Even if you define "being an RPG" strictly in terms of a progression system, 16 has more of one than half the franchise.
RPGs are defined by their simulation layer(s) between the player and the game, and the mechanics that shape and form said simulation (making these mechanics the RPG mechanics).
Crudely put.
If the player character dodges an attack, based on the player character's stats and parameters versus the stats and parameters of the attack. Then that's designed as an RPG.
On the flip side. If it's the actual player that dodges an attack, based on player skill and experience, instead of the player character's stats and parameters. Then that's not designed as an RPG.
And yes games can blur the lines and don't hard commit to 100% being an RPG or 100% being an action game. Action RPGs notably are defined by the mix of the two.
But the above genuinely is what defines RPGs of the medium. And any action game elements are concessions made against RPG design.
RPGs and action games are fundamentally opposed. You can mix them, sure, but design elements of one does make the game less of the other. You cannot get around that.
And that genuinely is it. You can have an RPG without any narrative whatsoever. Without even any character progression. And it'd still be an RPG. Likewise you can have a game without any RPG simulation whatsoever, but still have the game shock full of narrative choices, branching paths, and wild character progression options and possibilities. But none of that would ever and could never make it an RPG if it's player instead of the player character that does all the game actions.
FF16 genuinely barely has any RPG to it whatsoever. The only real effect the player character has that isn't controlled by the player, is the scope and magnitude of the damage numbers. You can learn a wide range of abilities, but the use and results of those abilities are ultimately all up to the player, not the player character. It's not an RPG.
By your definition most CRPGs don't count as RPGs.
Correct. They're Interactive Fiction with battle systems. Only Japan makes RPGs, and good games period.
>They're Interactive Fiction with battle systems
Exactly what most JRPGs are. WRPGs are more gameplay focused
>By your definition most CRPGs don't count as RPGs.
What? That's insane. By my definition almost all of them count.
What do you mean? From Baldur's Gate to Fallout. To modern stuff like Divinity Original Sin or Pathfinder. The RPG mechanics are a very distinct layer simulating almost everything the characters do.
When you shoot an arrow at an enemy in Baldur's Gate, who determines the likelihood of said arrow hitting the enemy?
The skill of the player to aim shots, or the skill of the player character to aim shots?
It's the latter.
>RPGs are defined by their simulation layer(s) between the player and the game, and the mechanics that shape and form said simulation (making these mechanics the RPG mechanics).
I can already tell this is some great bait post. RPG has no definition at all, it is a literal buzzword.
I know you are not dumb, anon.
There is a clear difference when It comes to the changes in earlier games and to the changes in FFXV and FFXVI
The other reply went a lot further with the argument and I agree 100% with him, but that wasnt even necessary.
If you see no difference in the changes to gameplay when comparing the latest release with the earlier ones, you are being dishonest
The Final Fantasy branded is pretty much:
>crystals
>summons
>spell names
>monsters
Pretty much everything else is malleable.
If you have to watch some morons 5 hour retrospective on the series to get the opinion that "the FF series is always changing" then you are actually, functionally moronic.
I cannot believe that this place has become legitimately infested with idiots like OP that cannot come to an opinion or conclusion on their own and need someone else to tell it to them.
Anyone that is remotely a fan of the FF series knows that the games are drastically different with every single new entry into the mainline series. The departure from 1 to 2 is insane, the departure from 2 to 3 is insane, from 3 to 4, etc etc. The only time the departure isn't massive is between 6 and 7 which are functionally very similar to one another, but that shit is kicked right out of the window when 8 shows up, and continues until we're at 16.
>bad game is actually good because the series has had bad games before
lmao ok
remind me again how TLJ is the best star wars?
What exactly is the point of posts like this? Do you expect anyone to take you seriously, or give any weight at all to an opinion that's given in such ridiculously bad faith?
The argument presented is that 3 introduced auto-targetting, and thus was the point in the series where you had to actually stop paying attention to the combat and could just mash attack to get through 90% of the fights in the game. He argues that while auto-targetting is a huge quality of life improvement, adding it also shifted the direction of the series and subsequent games.
Similarly, 3 took the massive and labyrinthine dungeons in the first two games and streamlined them down to far smaller, simpler and more approachable ones. Honestly, he's right, 3 only gets "hard" at all in the Crystal Tower. And yes to it being on the NES version, he played through all the series on their original hardware/versions.
No Final Fantasy game is “hard”, not even the NES ones.
And yet, 3 is the game that made the dungeons smaller and simpler and the combat more mindless.
2's dungeons are awful and 1's were just okay. 3 took everything that 1 did and expanded upon it so I can't see how it casualized anything. The casualization started at 7.
>The casualization started at 7.
3 turned 90% of the combat encounters to just mash attack mindlessly to get through it. And 6 reduced the difficulty even lower than 4. You can't possibly argue that 7 is where the games started getting more casual.
>3 turned 90% of the combat encounters
6 and 7 did that. 3 still had a reasonable difficulty in its encounters.
>You can't possibly argue that 7 is where the games started getting more casual.
It did. For example 7 simplified equipment down to just two slots, weapon and armor
>The casualization started at 7.
Spoken by someone who has never played a single FF game before or including VII
I-V are mostly consistent mechanically and aesthetically. VII changed everything
IV and VII are closer mechanically than V and VII.
VII isn't close to any of those. Its closest to VI since materia is ripped straight from Espers
X is impossible without a guide. I missed magus sisters and LITERALLY softlocked on the boss you have to beat in a minute.
>3 took the massive and labyrinthine dungeons in the first two games and streamlined them down to far smaller, simpler and more approachable ones
the only massive dungeons in FF1 are Mirage Tower + Flying Fortress and Chaos Shrine. and I wouldn't call either of them "labyrinthine". I like FF1 but the dungeons really aren't that big. it just uses the following to make its dungeons feel bigger
>frequent random encounters
>low amount of healing items (99 potions don't last forever)
>gimmicks to make it take longer (have to leave Earth Cavern to get a key, holes in Ice Cavern & Sunken Shrine, teleporters in Citadel)
"massive and labyrinthine dungeons" is really just an FF2 feature.
> Final Fantasy 3 was a massive casualisation of the series
moronic and wrong, stopped reading there
Is not the fact that 16 changed whats wrong, nobody would care if 16 was a better game, thats the real issue. Everything about 16 is a depressing slog. There is not even that magical whim that most other FF worlds have, and for what, another shitty magic bad plot.
Meh they can improve just like rebirth is improving 7r
This. XVII will be CBU3's redemption. Trust the plan.
>XVII will be CBU3's redemption.
Why give CBU3 a second chance when their MMO is on the collapse and XVI couldn't even save SE from the financial blunders of the past 10 years?
That's just PS5 fault and the mmo is already 10 years old with a very outdated design
>Everything about 16 is a depressing slog. There is not even that magical whim that most other FF worlds have
This is why I would not touch 16 with a ten-foot pole. I despise 'very medieval' settings (I don't know the proper term for this) where everything looks dark, no machinery from at least Industrial Revolution age and nearly all characters have British accents (I live in the UK btw). While a lot of FFs have medieval themes, they're balanced by colours, some weirdness and technology (Flying Fortress, Tower of Babel etc) which stops them from being some generic medieval tripe.
It’s noticeably more dark and serious than most other entries sure, but there’s characters who lighten up the tone at times. And I feel like a lot of people ignore how crazy shit gets. ffs, ifrit does a rider kick. The tone isn’t one-note.
Your first mistake was believing that people on Ganker played the game
You clearly don't know anything about the game. FF16 has ruins of a high-tech fallen civilisation everywhere around, even the characters' main base is built from it, and rogue machinery is one of the most common enemy types.
I said I wouldn't touch the game and I had little interest in digging more info so I wouldn't know.
I'm talking more about the world itself rather than the characters or story. I don't hate Clive and the other characters from what little I know. I just don't like most Western medieval fantasy worlds like Witcher 3, I know it's a shallow thing to dislike.
Fair. Not every setting works for everyone.
The point is more that rather than indulging in such a dark and grim setting, it follows a group of heroes on a story that's largely hopeful, heroic and optimistic. It's not all sunshine and roses, things aren't easy for them, but they're aiming to fix things and improve the world- rather than something like Witcher or GoT which is more about just changing who's in charge of this crapsack world.
You're probably thinking of Western dark fantasy. 16 very much isn't like that- from his design and the leading man in this kind'a story, you'd probably expect Clive to be a brooding, stoic and serious kind'a character. But he's not, he's earnest, he's emotive and he's good natured. Much closer to pt2 Cloud than Squall, basically.
Your entire party falls along the same lines, with Jill being a ride-or-die BFF/Lover package.
The storyline is optimistic and hopeful, and it never devolves into misery-porn or grimdark nonsense. Really, the only thing you'd really say where it overindulges is with the Branded stuff getting hammered in again and again.
>Everything about 16 is a depressing slog
I had an entirely different experience.
The game has a healthy length, and the fact that it's dark fantasy makes it a ton more appealing to me. The set pieces are all spectacular.
They did go overboard with spamming you with side quest notifications (it breaks immersion, frankly), but only the most ADHD types of gamers would be legitimately annoyed by those. You can ignore them and only do the quests given by the characters you care about, or barrel through the main story.
They should've just copypasted GoW's formula for the side content (fewer side quests with more substance, puzzles, gear and abilities scattered on the map) and the game would've been a solid 9-10.
This is a pretentious breakdown but I feel it does a good job of explaining how much Final Fantasy tries to reinvent itself with every game.
He breaks it down in a far more insane way, which amused me. Pic related
Kitase and/or Ito is the genius of this fallen franchise.
"Different Director each game" are the incompetent frauds who milk dumb fanboys who will play any game with "Final Fantasy" on its cover. And then argue there's no difference.
This is pretty good.
The only thing this is missing is
Crisis Core > TYPE-0 > Final Fantasy XV
What exactly about XVI is "experimental"?
Seems generic as all frick to me.
it's experimental in the context of the series, being the most radical departure of gameplay from the other, even 15
How many times have you seen a character action game invading an RPG series. XVI is that.
?si=8pan0-i2tkhLZ5mD
I loved this insane visual too though
>suddenly, ivalice
got a chuckle out of me, can’t lie.
>9 is a dead end and closest to the centerline that FF1 is on
damn, pretty on the money
How is it insane? The image just describes each game's inheritance of sci-fi or fantasy story elements. Magitek on the left, magic on the right
would be nice you
added that to the chart so I knew what it was talking about.
Nah, it's talking about everything from design philosophy to the style of game to everything in between. Like 1 birthed 2 and 3. 2 is serious and has a clear narrative, 3 isn't and has a very light plotline. 2's focussed on the story while 3's focused on the adventure and combat.
So 2 leads into 6, which has a similar philosophy, while 3 leads into 4 and 5 which have much lighter stories and are more mechanically focused.
XII should have a connection to XI
there's no possible way they made XII an offline MMO without taking a ton of inspiration from the actual MMO
>there's no possible way they made XII an offline MMO without taking a ton of inspiration from the actual MMO
They did take inspiration from it.
>hunts are basically just Notorious Monsters
>EXP chains
>zone lines are ripped right from XI
that's what I'm saying
The guy is an extreme MMOgay, he probably can't even see all the MMOshit in 12 because it's like water to a fish.
Bait thread aside, how was 3 a massive casualisation? Compared to 2, yes, but 2 itself is completely different from 1 and I don't remember 3 being noticeably easier than 1. Then again it's been years. Also I hope this guy is going by the NES versions if he's doing this otherwise replying to this was an even bigger waste of time.
No one cares bout 2 and 3 so you will never have an answer hehe
Dungeons became easier (crystal tower aside), and it was the first entry with automatic targeting, making it also the first game where you can get through a lot of encounters by pressing attack with little else in the way of inputs.
3 is far more mechanically complex than 2. In 2 you can just give everyone swords, shields and cure and you'll have no trouble except a few gimmick bosses.
The game gets harder the more complex/"meta" you try to play it.
>Compared to 2, yes
Imagine answering your own question 3 words after the initial question was redacted. You're THIS low IQ
I just want a honest to god new FFT, but Nu-square is all devil may cry clones now.
Play triangle strategy.
I did play 2 hours of it, and after 2 hours of the most "Bad country is bad because they are evil, we are good country because we are good" plot, and ONE singular battle, i just turned it off.
Eh, I would say it gets better but I'm very easily led so what do I know. But at least it doesn't drop the political stuff to intriduce demons like FFT.
>But at least it doesn't drop the political stuff to intriduce demons like FFT.
Damn, i loved the demons, i was willing to sit thru an absolute snooze fest of a plot or even no plot at all, but jesus christ i won't sit thru 2 hours of it for every single combat.
What the other anon said, genuinely play triangle strategy. It’s better than FFT.
>better than FFT
gr8 b8 m8 I r8 it 8/8
>better maps
>each unit is actually unique (no generics)
>no “suddenly evil church/god” to sour “muh politically deep narrative”
>better characters overall (ramza and delita are the only characters worth a damn)
>Actual strategy that doesn’t devolve into breaking the game in half and creating an army of juggernauts
>much more difficult
It’s genuinely the better SRPG. I swear most of the praise for tactics comes from the fact it released in the PS1 era so people have shitloads of nostalgia and can’t take the goggles off for one second.
>better maps
I'm pretty sure every TRPG has garbage maps, and I've played even niche TRPGs like Ragnarok Tactics and Banner of the Maid, but you be you if you've enjoyed them.
>each unit is actually unique (no generics)
Trashing on generics is a garbage taste no matter the TRPG
>no “suddenly evil church/god” to sour “muh politically deep narrative”
>suddenly
>SUDDENLY
Did you even play the game or did you skip every goddamn plot scene? The "evil church" appears as early as Chapter 2 (aka right when flashback chapter ends, and Chapter 1 had frickall politics because the previous king didn't even die yet and The Lion War hasn't even started) and Delita straight out tells you that church is fricked after the meeting at waterfall (which you later experience hands-on with Draclau)
>better characters overall (ramza and delita are the only characters worth a damn)
>(ramza and delita are the only characters worth a damn)
Oh okay, ou were baiting after all, shame on me.
>Actual strategy that doesn’t devolve into breaking the game in half and creating an army of juggernauts
Every single TRPG is easy and you're lying to yourself there. At least FFT is actualy fun due to variety of jobs / ability combinations and playthroughs you can do (which is why it has so many challenge runs designed by fans themselves)
>likes generics
>likes class changing/job system
And that’s where we’re completely different. I can’t imagine having fun with a bunch of faceless dudes. And while messing with a class/job system is fun for a bit, it doesn’t take long to find the one that breaks the game. And by the time your halfway through, shit gets old.
If everybody is unique, then nobody is.
>Hates the job system
Absolute heretic
I like the job system in FFV. I just can’t vibe with it in tactical rpgs.
I don't want to derail this thread, but I found TS to be an enormous disappointment. It's a game that should have been great, wanted to be great, and instead just shot itself in the foot with every piece of it.
The story was unsatisfying with how the geopolitics resolved, and how it clearly just had one route planned out that it split off from the ending to give you a bunch of pointless knife-twist bad-ends unless you got the "Benedict Route 2.0". Nevermind how utterly aggravating it was to just watch your enemies stand up after every fight and just waltz off.
The gameplay was unsatisfying with how levels had been abstracted to the point of being absolutely meaningless. You cannot ever be ahead of the curve, so levels are only *ever* a bad thing. You're either on par or you're behind. There's no sense of progression since everything's scaled to you, and because your enemies always just walk away after every battle you never feel like your army is growing more powerful- the random bandits you scattered in the first map come back later on as practically demigods, chewing through elite knights with ease.
It was a 7/10 game that should have been a 9/10
I thought the fricked up endings (besides benedict’s) lent themselves well to the chosen characters change in conviction. Frederica’s completely and utter moralegay demeanour for the roselle could only have led to bad things for wolfort and norzelia. And roland’s observations of different freedoms blends with his habitual attempts at martydom to make the fricked up decision to give it all to hyzante in a heavy utilitarian decision. Damning the few to save the many, what’s he’s done the entire game.
Going back to your complaints about leveling. It’s weird, I agree, but it helps make every unit worth using. The devs took a toolbox approach to designing units. Take Jens for example. He’s sorta unassuming, but on a map with lots of verticality, the choice to use him is always there. Even if he’s levels behind the rest of the party. It’s not something I’ve personally seen a lot in other SRPGs but I didn’t hate it either.
Benedict's ending seems similar to the true ending at first glance but its still a negative ending overall because he never truly implemented checks and balances to the Aesfrosti culture which means that we get what happened to people like Frederica and the archer guy but on a wider scale.
>triangle strategy better than FFT.
lol
lmao even
This
tho its not a high bar, fft is fueled by nostaligachuds
Its worth a playthrough, but better than FFT? Nah.
I imagine you're looking for a cool job system. if that's the case, play Fell Seal; it blows Triangle Strategy out of the water in that regard
I'm going to be sincere with you, i've eyeballed fell seal for a while, but i can't bring myself to play it, i think the sprites and animation of it are stiff and wack
But it's most likely personal bias and it's just a good game
The single best SRPG in existence is Banner of Maid. Without question. Fantastic setting, fun cast of characters, wonderful pixel graphics, fun map design, the superior Faction Based turn system rather than Speed Based so it's not a slog, a perfect implementation of what FE:Fates tried to do with durability, etc etc.
But the best thing about it for sure is the amazing unit balance that shifts and changes throughout the gameplay. At first you get the impression that Skirmishers are the best, and then quickly you find that Light Cavalry is taking over, then suddenly Heavy Cavalry are unstoppable, which means you need your Skirmishers back and then by lategame the Line Infantry rise ascendant like never before. It's wonderful.
Story isn't great and the ending is weak, but everything else is perfect.
>Banner of Maid.
This should've been a gacha.
FE isn't FFT anon
>but Nu-square is all devil may cry clones now
Kino
>try to get into SoP
>restarted multiple times, have like 30 hours into the game right now
>just cant get into the combat at all and everyting is so complicated
sucks because the gameplay looks fire but its such a chore to actually play it
>>All huge betrayals of everything Final Fantasy was built on
Is it really betrayal when even the first two games are radically different from each other despite being the only ones made by the same team?
The series never created an identity for itself, it was never an IP treated with actual care, for a specific audience, when you look at the game it's hard to say they even tried to build up things because all of them suffer from the same exact issues and they never tried to fix any of them, or build upon its systems in any meaningful way, it took them 12 entries (11 technically if the first MMO counts) to move away from random encounters when even something as low budget as Tales of managed to do that sooner.
It's hard to say it has actual fans even because the vast majority of FF "fans" out there only really like a select couple of games, for obvious reasons, and shit on everything else including other games series, this whole debacle is completely pointless.
don't care 16 was still mediocre as an action game, action rpg, jrpg, whatever the frick label you want to throw on it
Im through ff1- ff4 after years + ff7,8,9,12
They are quite similar
Don't care, FFXI still killed the franchise.
If you spent 6 hours watching this whole thing and you haven't played all the Final Fantasy games then you should have a nice day.
XVI is still the 3rd worst mainline with XIII and XV trailing behind.
I think its pretty good that FF changes itself up with each entry. I only really like 7 but its still good they dont just do the same thing every time.
Skipped to the vids conclusion and the dude argues the same thing. In a medium where we’re slowly inching towards remakes/remaster bloat and copying for the sake of copying, it’s nice to have a series say frick it and reinvent itself every entry. It keeps things fresh.
There's a difference between an RPG, an action RPG, and a straight-up action game. Actually, revise that, a movie with some action sequences.
Luckily, FF16 is doing pretty poorly in terms of profit and zoomers will just have to keep crying about it.
?????? All FFs are movie games, the focus has always been on the characters, story and narrative with tons of dialogue.
>the focus has always been on the characters, story and narrative with tons of dialogue.
>Anon hasn't played a single FF before 6
lol
lmao
He's not wrong, the gameplay on FF has always been pathetic, only the first two games kinda tried and those are barely representative of the series, FF5 is the only other exception
>He's not wrong
>Final Fantasy 1 is focussed on it's story and characters
>Final Fantasy 3 has a narrative with tons of dialogue
>Final Fantasy 5 is a moviegame
he's technically right. FF1 had a strong story emphasis for its time. FF3 has lots of dialogue between party members and tries to give the feel of "four bros out on a fun adventure" that future games also strove for. FF5 is very cinematic with more action setpieces, character motifs, and other stylistic choices that enhance the presentation of the story, whereas previous entries were far more limited in that regard.
>FF1 had a strong story emphasis for its time.
Very debatable
>FF3 has lots of dialogue between party members
It absolutely does not, at least not in the NES version. You're thinking of the DS remake.
>FF5 is very cinematic with more action setpieces, character motifs, and other stylistic choices that enhance the presentation of the story, whereas previous entries were far more limited in that regard.
FF4 had a FAR BIGGER focus on literally all of that.
>Very debatable
What games had a comparable story?
>It absolutely does not, at least not in the NES version.
It does, certainly in comparison to previous games. FF1 doesn't have any characterization for the party, FF2 had some characterization that was typically limited to conversations with npcs to advance the story, FF3 had your party chat among themselves regularly. They don't have definitive characterizations like the DS, but they do have dialogue that contributes to the 'party of friends' feel.
>FF4 had a FAR BIGGER focus on literally all of that.
It has a larger story scope and more characters, but has a more flat presentation. 5 has more inventive use of character motif, cutting between scenes, and other techniques that are primarily used by films. Playing 4 is like watching a play, playing 5 is like watching a film.
That still doesn't make them movie games
Not by modern standards, but they absolutely were inspired by movies.
FF5 is the bastard child of Slayers and a saturday morning cartoon, plot-wise.
FF1 was advertised and marketed heavily on its party building and customization. With the sell of the game being the large world that you'd explore using that party.
That it had a narrative beyond that gave it bonus points. But the above was what was praised and repeated in all magazines and official promotions.
who are you quoting? he never called 5 a moviegame
ATB is a piece of shit.
There's a reason not a single game developer since the 90s has used such an atrocious system. FF7 changed the world, and yet not one game dev tried to copy its combat system. Why do you think that is?
Protip: its because nobody liked it
>Unable to read
>Personagay
yep, checks out
I played all FFs before 6, but only finished 1, 4 and 5.
Barry lost
if a final fantasy game doesnt have a party of at least 3 and blue text boxes, then its not good. simple as
And yet 4-9, aka the ATB games, are considered the franchises golden age (and X is in there as well). This is what people are talking about when they say they played far more similarly back then. It had nothing to do with the amount of cutscenes
It’s also because those are the only games they played. God knows they didn’t play 1. And 2 and 3 didn’t come out in the west so they couldn’t even see pre-ATB FF, or FF when it gave a shit about dungeons and difficulty. Or how 2 and 3 are complete opposites in tone.
Most players of 4-9 use 'Wait' and not 'Active' combat options.
The story segments of FF6 are still fairly short and the journey between them is as long as in the previous games. Whoever claims FF6 started "cutscenes" is simply wrong.
>2023
>Autismos are still making 5 hour video essays and complex flowcharts trying to explain why their Final Fantasy game is better than the other entries
>Completely forgetting that FF has been a dead franchise since X and more people play the MMOs nowadays than have ever touched your precious console games from the 90's
Honestly why do you care anymore? You're not going to get your childhood experience back.
>Autismos are still making 5 hour video essays and complex flowcharts trying to explain why their Final Fantasy game is better than the other entries
Actually the video is the exact opposite of that. And the "Complex flowchart" is practically a joke that's only in the FF4 section used to explain how he sees the series direction.
>Honestly why do you care anymore? You're not going to get your childhood experience back.
Literally in the conclusion. Linked in the thread. The very first post of the thread.
Why do you have such strong opinions about a video you haven't even watched? Are you like this when talking about videogames, do you come in and post obnoxiously strong opinions about games you haven't played?
>you’re not getting your childhood back
That’s the point.
The core problem with the franchise isn't how many cutscenes or RPG elements or how younique the game is every time. The core problem is that after Sakaguchi left the soul left with him, Everything after him has just been a horrible attempt to recapture the magic but they just can't do it
i stopped reading at 3 was a casualization, americans besides the 1% of true gamers didn't even know 3 existed until about 5 years ago. they thought 6 WAS 3.
So? What's that got to do with the design philosophy?
3 streamlined the dungeons of 1 and 2 down to very simple locations. It's introduced auto-targetting letting you just mash attack through encounters. It massively simplified both the story and party setups from 2. And it's an easier game until the end of the Crystal Tower.
The FF6 part of the video is the part with the charts, I don't think it's really intended as a serious analysis, but the explanation for the flowchart is at this timestamp: https://youtu.be/cMduvZhatYY?si=fes3aC740Hz6g8k7&t=6542
>So? What's that got to do with the design philosophy?
that you're implying you're familiar with the series enough to call 3 a casualization when FF is already a casualization of SaGa.
>change is always good
the copiest of copes
The Last Jedi has ruined so many zoomers.
Are any of the pre FF7 games worth playing today?
1 4 5 6.
3 is ok
do not play NES 2.
All the pre FF7 games are worth playing today. The whole franchise up to X is worth playing today. Stop after that one. X is like RE4: A really great game that unfortunately ushers in the age of decline. We're still in the age of decline
Yes. All of them.
Yes. All 6 are worth checking out. And if anyone says “ignore II” tell them to frick off.
Final Fantasy V and VI definitely are. The Pixel Remasters on Steam are good.
Talking only about the original versions, I don't know about the remakes and remasters
1: Okay, but you have to appreciate what it was for the time
2: Okay, but you have to appreciate what it was for the time, and ignore everything everyone tells you about "How to play it". If you spend hours hitting yourself to get more HP you'll get fustrated and you'll make the latter points much harder.
3: Meh.
4: Eh. Good, but you have to appreciate the storytelling of the time. Lots of death fakeouts, but the scene with Tellah will make you love 5's Galuf even more. Those two scenes are a perfect, perfect juxtaposition.
5: Amazing
6: Amazing
If you have an interest in the franchise and the genre, yes.
no they didn't. if you weren't a massive moron, you'd notice they all follow certain patterns and plot points.
also
>wasting time watching a 5 hours youtube video made by some 16 defender
LMAO
>wasting time watching a 5 hours youtube video made by some 16 defender
Lmao this guys opinion is worth way more than yours because he breaks down EVERY FF game.
He even lists positives about FF15. But ultimately calls it unfinished
>He had positives and negatives to say about every FF game
>Except 13
>13 seemed like he struggled to say anything good about it
It really do be like that
And he played the original versions, so he can judge the design intentions and context at the time. Which is nice, because way, way too many people who try do a retrospective on FF games go "Oh I can't play an old NES game, I need to play the remaster" and then start talking about how "Three smartly moved away from the DnD inspired Spell Slot system of 1 that everyone hated."
Gets a bit funny for 9 when one of his bigger complaints is the loading times though.
It’s crazy cause I would be able to understand all the hype with 9 if I didn’t feel like I was fighting the game every damn encounter. It’s legitimately the hardest entry to pick up solely because of that, even on 2x speed.
>OP actually listened another moron talk for five hours and a half about Final Fantasy
I don't know which one is a bigger homosexual, if you OP or the moron who made the video
Reminder that ATB games are turnbased. And that anyone that argues otherwise is insane.
I dont get FF10 story. Was it time travel?
No but I half took his mentions of time travel as the "vague about plot" bit because that's initially what it appears to be and the reveal of what's really up is even more ridiculous.
Been a long time since I played so don't remember exactly, but Tidus and his Zanarkand were the same as Yuna's aeons and were being summoned by some petrified guys on that snow covered mountain. Tidus' Zanarkand is literally out in the middle of the ocean off the coast of Spira if I recall right. There was no time travel stuff in that game.
major spoilers do not view
im fricking serious this is your last warning
spoiler follows
Auron died on his pilgrimage with Jecht, he was dead the ENTIRE TIME. Yuna summoned Tidus, who didn't really exist? im not super clear on this bit.
>One of the simplest plots in the series
>FFtards still don’t get it
Lol
I only get 7
I think people get stuck on the whole 1000 years into the future thing at the start, and struggle to figure out how time travel fits into the story at all.
No. But most everyone thinks there was time-travel involved, which is a pretty clear example of how FFX's story was messy and mostly fell apart in the second half.
The long and short of it is that Sin sucked Tidus out of fake-Zanakand and spat him about 1,000 km over to where Wakka finds him.
How did nobody ever come across the fake place with a boat
Because
>Technology is practically outlawed, only the Al Bhed even indulge in it, everyone else is basically the pacific island level of medieval
>Sin is patrolling around fake-Zanakand, mindlessly protecting it and keeping anyone who did get close away. The only reason Tidus got sucked up was because of Jhect.
>I dont get FF10 story. Was it time travel?
It's animu-tier trash that changes the plot to suit the writer's "wouldn't it be cool if..." desires.
>time/dimension traveling superbeast wrecks shit
>sportsball star gets summoned to another time/place
>he's a summoned beast, like Ifrit or Shiva
>but also not
>because summoner girl was destined to summon him
>but she can't summon correctly yet
>and the beast is the star's dad
>but also not
>and the beast is just a physical representation of a concept
>but also real AND not real
>and the dad's friend know's what's up
>for some reason
>maybe they fought together in a war
>maybe that war was same shit the son is doing
>and everything might be a dream
>but a real dream
>or MAYBE the place sportsball star comes from is a dream
>there's also another bad guy who is 99% pointless
>because demon-whale-dad not edgelord enough
>worst minigame in FF intermission
>turns out nothing matters
>because it's all cyclical (oR Is iT?!?!)
>and who/whatever can just be resummoned after death/banishment
summoner girl was destined to summon him
U wot? You didn't even play it
Most of 10’s detractors never played the game, they just listened to that pussy whipped cuck that tried to murder his dog
>because summoner girl was destined to summon him
>U wot? You didn't even play it
niglet, you can't even greentext without fricking it up, of course you missed that plot point
Yuna never intended on sacrificing Tidus for the final aeon so what you said was plain false
>Yuna never intended
that naive b***h didn't know wtf was going on most of the time, you have to know what's going on in the first place before you can intended to do a damn thing
I didn't intend to enter this thread with having you suck my dick like a tsundere twink, but here we are...
>didn't know wtf was going on most of the time,
Yeah, you defintely didn't play the game. Yuna knew everything except for the truth behind the pilgrimage and Yevon
>yuna knew everything except the main plot points
literally moronic
No amount of stretching your grade school narrative comprehension will make your desire for 10 having a cohesive story come true.
You claimed Yuna was destined to summon Tidus as a final aeon when that was never even considered once by the characters. She and her whole party always understood that it would be Wakka, Lulu or Kimahri who would be summoned, not Tidus.
>10 having a cohesive story come true.
Its one of the most coherent in the series. You haven't pointed out any real plot holes or errors in writing
you don't have the intelligence to make this conversation worth continuing
At this point I feel like I'm telling a kid with down syndrome that the peanut butter and canned spinach they've smushed between their hands doesn't count as a sandwich, much less a good one.
You are utterely clueless and now you doubled down on your moronation. Next time, actually play the game.
>Uw ur ubberwe cwuwess an ow uw dubbo dow un ur tardayshun. Neh tye, axshuawe pway da gam.
Thanks for proving my point
>Thans fo pwovin muh pwoin
I love X.
But one thing about the writing bothers me. Why did Tidus never find out the truth behind the final summoning, even though Braska was known to be dead?
>Why did
Anything that happens in FFX does so because it's convenient in that moment. It's an extremely disjointed story.
>Why did Tidus never find out the truth behind the final summoning
This was explained in the story. Because no one was comfortable with breaking the truth to him.
Compared to what exactly?
>Compared to what exactly?
Any story that can maintain a cohesive plot and theme for longer than a cutscene.
What was so disjointed about plot? Its just typical FF
>What was so disjointed about plot?
Every plot point exists practically independently of those that came before or after it.
>this is happening
>now that is happening
>now we're here
>now we're there
and so on... with no input from the player or relevance to what's going on in the story. Just one bullshit scene after another for the sake of whatever was in the writer's daydreams.
There are rail shooters that jump from location-to-location that maintain plots with more sense.
On its BEST argument, FFXs story exists as a thematic device to meta-troll the viewer about the lack of importance of the lives of imaginary characters.
Any examples of this? Because other FF games did what you said but much worse
>Any examples of this?
The entire game. Did I not just say that?
>Because other FF games did what you said but much worse
Then you give pre-10 examples (feel free to omit 8, that was almost as bad).
Vidya writing has always been trash-tier. X was just the most egregious of the FF bunch.
>Did I not just say that?
You didn't list any specific plot points. Saying the whole game is vague
>Then you give pre-10 examples
I'll talk about 7
>If Shinra knows that AVALANCHE is going to blow up the sector 5 reactor and set up a trap, why didn't they just disarm the bomb? You could claim that they just want to paint them as terrorists but its completely redundant since they were going to frame them for the destruction of sector 7.
>Why didn't Shinra just capture Aerith the entire time? They know where she lives.
>The cross dressing scene is ridiculous. How is a muscular man (with a huge sword no less) able to sneak inside? I'd overlook it if it was just a comedic scene but no, it is actually important for the story and moves the plot forward.
>Why did Shinra take out an entire section of their city just to kill 6 people who in no way were a major threat to them AND tried to frame them for the attack as if they could have survived? Blatant cartoon villain behavior.
>Why is the promised land such a big deal for Shinra? They are a massive, wealthy and powerful megacorporation that owns the world already. Mako energy is endless for them and they are pursuing a legend? And even if they wanted to find it, why don't they just do so? They have the technology and resources but the writing acts as if the world is uncharted.
>Why does the party fight their way through Shinra HQ only to then surrender in the elevator just because Rude got in?
>Why does Sephiroth open Cloud's jail cell? He had no reason not to kill him or his friends.
>Almost everything about Cait Sith is nonsense. The party visits Golden Saucer and Cloud meets a fortune telling cat that sits on top of a mog. Said cat then proceeds to force himself to join the party and they just accept him, no questions asked.
>Why doesn't Tifa get mako poisoning when she fell in with cloud?
It's been a long while, but most or all of those are explained.
>Shinra wanted AVALANCHE as scapegoats because they wanted to drop the plate, because they wanted to get rid of some of the slum districts and it was a convenient way to do it. Details are a bit hazy, but you learn this when you're sneaking around their HQ
>Tseng was protecting her
>Aerith is just that good. Cloud isn't hugely muscular anyway, he's juiced up on MAKO.
>See above, they wanted the slums gone and wanted a scapegoat, AVALANCHE was convenient for both
>Mako energy isn't endless
>They were surrounded and subdued, literal gun to their head situation
>Cait Sith immediately blackmails them so they can't ditch him. They don't accept him at all
>Don't remember if this was discussed, but keep in mind that Mako poisoning is the stylised/western version of it. You're meant to understand that it's essentially like being a Junkie. When Cloud was strung out and losing himself, the people accusing him of being Mako Poisoning were essentially assuming he was just desperate for another shot. So it's a bit different with Tifa in the lifestream
Half of your plot points rely on the assumption that Shinra was a monolithic, omnipotent entity and not a disjointed conglomerate, that didn't even know what its other branches were up to even when operating in the same building. Greed and hubris, both themes that are central to the story and explored at length, of those that operate under the Shinra umbrella easily explain those issues.
Most of the rest of your problems with the story are because you don't understand that it's about rectifying science and magic.
There is no magic in FF7, only scientific advancements that don't impede life - to the point that those advancements are synonymous with life. They are beyond the understanding of most characters' understanding, so they are "magic."
>Cait Sith
Operates as a double-agent. It's not nonsense, it's just not explained very well. It's a Trojan horse that backfires.
>Golden Saucer
A monument to hubris and greed. A golden calf in the middle of the desert. Everything that they're fighting against but presented as a sparkly dream of unlimited possibilities.
>Why doesn't Tifa get mako poisoning
The planet's energy is more-or-less a sentient hivemind of original forces and the external forces of the Ancients (aliens that progressed science into natural order but let it slip). The effects of mako are only realized through external manipulation (like Shinra science stuff) or if the hivemind energy is trying to do something.
Cloud is the representation of the "natural" order of energy and Sephiroth is the "crude science brute force" form of energy.
The planet's ancient protection system was blatantly a group of mechanized giants, for frick's sake. That kind of shit doesn't grow from trees. Some sentient fricks (the Ancients) MADE those things to be harmonized with nature.
I really don't think I understand your complaints. were you frustrated that Sin warped you to the ruins where you met Riku and then warped you somewhere else soon after?
I can only assume that aspects of the game annoyed you early on, and so you refused to engage with the rest of the game.
FF16 was fun. It has potential to improve
8 is the most kino FF game.
?t=10
>e-celeb
WHO CARES
He's certainly no celebrity
Comfy channel for the discerning anon though
>All huge betrayals of everything Final Fantasy was built on
>fan thinks he should be the one that decides whats best.
many such cases
FF6 WoR in T-Edition is what FF should've been
>ESL accent and lisp
I find all the stories in every ff game except 7 really weird and hard to follow. 7 is fairly easy to understand in comparison to stuff like 8 and 10.
3 4 or 5 homies in a line bring crystals or ORBs to save the world and you fight god at the end.
6 is just star wars with extra steps.
>1-5
Very simple straightforward plots, can't possibly fail to understand them
>6
Slightly more complciated, might miss some details, still very straightforward
>7
The actual narrative is very simple and honest. However, the details of why this and that happened, and all the background stuff gets very complicated and convoluted, you can argue back and forth about whether Sephiroph is even Sephiroph or just JENOVA and the game doesn't help itself by spending the first half with this massive red-herring that Cloud might be a clone.
>8
Convoluted nonsense. Probably the worst plot in all the games I've played.
>9
Straightforward but ruined by Beatrix
>X
Straightforward, honest and simple... then gets messy, convoluted and stupid. Strangely, actually doesn't have Time Travel in it, even though everyone thinks it does.
>11-13
Didn't play
>14
Great plot, solid, straightforward with lots of details, room for interpretations and long-form character arcs that develop both the cast and the setting. Easily the strongest overall plot in all the games I've played.
the "schizo" stuff in 7 is even worse now that remake happened. is OG seph - jenova because we beat him already in OG going to stop HIMSELF?
>Final Fantasy Has Always Changed Itself
>He completely changed my mind
Holy Shit, a FF Fan discovers this franchise changes itself every fricking game and it hasn't been turn based in 13 years.
what's with the revisionism? ATB has always been considered a subgenre of turn based until recent shitposting. Also, with the amount of rereleases, remakes, and mobile ports, turn based FF never stopped being relevant
>always been considered a subgenre
if you meant "4 homies in a row", then that would actually be accurate.
>ATB in games like 7 where it pauses while you're in the menu'
Turn based for sure
>ATB in games like 4 where it never pauses
Action based
That is toggleable in both games.
It's just funny, because the narrative hear was fricking months and months of threads about how 16 is betraying the series by being action based, and not having strict party members, and not following the FF7R style formulae etc
The video's not just about that though, that's just the takeaway I got from the conclusion, which I enjoyed.
The fact it's different doesn't suddenly make it a good game
Stranger of paradise, an actual action game with actual action combat didn't need to have as much RPG in it as it does
type 0 is part of crystal whatever FF13 series. its a prequel.
>its a prequel.
No, it is just set in the same cosmology. Orience is a separate universe from Gran Pulse, but has the same gods. KH Armor guy works for Lindzei, Bayonetta-mama works for Pulse. The two sisters work for Etro.
huh, well that does make sense, but I thought they were way more connected than that, like type 0 was pulse before it became not inhabited.
Outside of cramming 1-7 into a single block, it's a decent chart.
>12 once again wrongly skipping 14 1.0 because ivalicegays don't want to admit they were involved with a bad game.
Didn't make the chart but I'll update it.
>It's just funny, because the narrative hear was fricking months and months of threads about how 16 is betraying the series by being action based, and not having strict party members, and not following the FF7R style formulae etc
Basically this, most detractors haven't played most of the games to know that FF isn't like soulsborne where the gameplay is mostly the same. Series is constantly changing itself for better or worse and it's been doing that shit ever since it's gotten a sequel. To complain about "change" is kinda stupid. Though them changing the plot of FFVII Remake is moronic.
>The casualization started at 7
What the frick are you talking about.
>NeverKnowsBest
finally a good thread
I enjoy most Final Fantasy games and even the ones I don't like, I'm glad they exist because at the very least the franchise hasn't remained stagnant.
It could be like any other franchise where every single new numbered release is a carbon copy of the previous one and I think you'd have a lot less people caring about it as a whole.
I wish more franchises took risks with actually innovating from release to release.
Would you prefer they stop making new games and just make sequels to random only FF games like 6 or 8 or whatever?
I want to see 4 5 and 6 in FULL hd. but don't get frickn time ghost on me again just make the games in HD.
Sure.
I just want the games to stop taking 10 years so they can try different things and figure out what works. They need one AT LEAST every 3 years.
this, 7 years between mainline FFs is ridiculous
i know this isn't exclusively an FF problem but they really need to dial these dev times down, sadly the industry is heading in the direction of 10% more realistic pubes for double the dev time for the foreseeable future
if you want to reduce dev times they need, uncensored, AI and I don't mean chatgpt I mean functional artificial intelligence that can code and make models.
no FF needs to look better than XIII
I want to say you're wrong but graphics actually did peak on ps3. (mgs4, 1080p not upscaled) new gens actually downgraded to 720p 30fps stable and very very few games making use of better particles, and basically none using nanite yet.
this is the correct take. they need to give us more mid budget FFs.
if you get it on PC there are a bunch of mods for it. I'm not sure if they have any good graphical mods though.
My dream for Final Fantasy would be to take a budget like they did for FF16, and split it amongst 3 games. FF7R is kind of the blueprint I'd be looking for, but that game also has an insanely bloated budget.
I just like how SE tries to change every FF game from entry to entry, but they never work to fix or evolve on what they did right / wrong with the previous entry.
I'd love for them to have instead made a more mid-budget FF16, then come out with FF16-2 and FF16: Cid's Journey or some shit. And split the game up by improving upon each iteration.
Instead, we got what we got with FF16 and then it'll take another 8 years or whatever for FF17 which may or may not take what people liked / didn't like about 16. They just don't give themselves the time to perfect their own systems that they like to introduce. It's so bizarre.
>I'd love for them to have instead made a more mid-budget FF16, then come out with FF16-2 and FF16: Cid's Journey or some shit.
I think that's basically what they were trying to do with the 13 trilogy. doesn't seem like they were happy with the results.
It's tough because it heavily relies on the parent game being a success. FF13 was pretty decisive so if you weren't already on board with it then you aren't playing the sequels.
Isn't the trilogy them trying to survive the XIV 1.0 fiasco?
Honestly?
It'd be better if they dropped the FF namesake, at least for awhile.
The series has been trash for over 20 years. Know how it's been trash? Because the arguments over the quality of games haven't been whether or not they're good, but whether or not they shit.
There are a lot of people on this board who weren't even alive the last time a decent FF game was originally released.
Just because a band released one good album (or single) doesn't mean you have to keep trying to pretend their new stuff is good.
FF12, 14 and 16 are all great. A game's measure of quality is not whether it appeals to you personally.
>FF12 is great
you are in the minority
>FF14 is great
so great it needed a complete remake to not be an absolute joke, and the remake is pure troonycore
>FF16
zoomer fotm take
and let's not forget that they've been pimping out the FF name to every mobile shovelware company with a dollar
I read the opinions of games I dont play: the post
>coomer woomer zoomer poomer troony
Could you be less tangibly underaged?
mad zoomer is mad
inb4
>i'm over 18
>defintely not a zoomer
zoomzoom
frick off with shitty remaster/remakes/sequels. if anything, a well produced anime of say ff6 with no CGI (will never happen) would be fine
>frick off with shitty remaster/remakes/sequels
i specifically said no time ghosts. make a GOOD remake.
if you don't want the snes games in glorious 3d that sounds like a you problem and you've been jaded by the bad remakes.
there has never been a good remake of any game, especially from square
>glorious 3d
kys
peace walker HD is good.
>have a nice day
no.
>especially from square
Frick you, Trials of Mana remake is fantastic and fixed most of issues original had
>but muh 2D sprites!
Fair, but it's a worthy trade for fixing bugged stats (AGI and LCK), making 3rd classes available much earlier (and being able to use them beyond last two dungeons of the game), making combat more interesting that just "spam items you bought from Black Market and trade blows with every boss", making majority of classes actually viable (thanks to Expert / No Future difficulties) and even adding postgame content with 4th classes
>but muh multiplayer!
EN version of Trials never came out in 90s and at best you were playing it alone using ZSNES, you never played it on real SNES console like you did with Secret of Mana
trials of mana remake was fricking garbage
Every SaGa remake btfo's the original game and that's a Square series
I want them to improve upon what works and what doesn't. 7 Rebirth looks great because it's improving upon what 7 Remake did first. FF games sometimes feels like tech demos or beta versions because they don't improve their gameplay systems between games, rather they change it. For example XVI feels unfinished to me in terms of combat, but if they make an X16-2 they have the chance to improve and iterate it. But it most likely won't happen given the ending unless DLCs are coming with Cyberpunk style 2.0 patches that massively changes the mechanics even in the base game.
I wouldn't want FF17 to be a DMC clone like 16 but I also don't want them to trash the mechanics of 16 in a single game when it has very obvious fixes that can make the gameplay 10 times more enjoyable.
This is what Ganker ultimately wants. They don't want another Final Fantasy. They just want to watch the whole industry burn because they are depressed incels.
Imagine getting angry because a game is released without:
- Season Pass
- Day 1 DLC
- Endless pre-planned DLCs
Ganker doesn't care about celebrating complete games made for gamers by gamers. Ganker just wants to watch the next Tortanic.
>wtf why don't you want the same repackaged shit of what you already bought
???
This is unironically what Nostalgia gays want. FF7 fans also aren't Final Fantasy fans, they are fans of Final Fantasy 7 and shit on anything that isn't FF7 but will choke on any dry log of shit that's rammed down their throat as long as it has a FF7 wrapping.
The most recent example of FF7 gays eating shit like there's no tomorrow is the Mobile Gacha game SE released that's a re-release of the game but filled with Gacha mechanics. It's making SE so much money it's unreal.
also you should give 12 and 13 a chance.
I understand why most people avoid 12 though, zodiac locked classes is balls.
get the pc version and mod that out, like PAL, but without the random chests.
>NeverKnowsBest
ACCURATE NAME
He talks like a gay and his takes on FF7Remake and Cyberjunk were awful. Talks like a gay too!
>his takes on FF7Remake and Cyberjunk were awful
>thinks Nomura is a lunatic and that the new story doesn’t really hold up on its own merits due to being as subtle as a brick flying through a window, but thinks a lot of the FFVII parts are great and not all the new stuff is terrible. He also respects the willingness to do something risky and is on board for the wild ride
>thinks Cyberpunk was pretty mediocre as an RPG but called out everyone acting like it was somehow less of an RPG than Witcher 3 which is abjectly false
Sounds based to me
If you can't tell Nojima's writing after games like FF8 then I don't know what to say anon.
>his takes on FF7Remake and Cyberjunk were awful.
he said they were good? what a homosexual
>his takes on FF7Remake
Its a great game, COPE.
Time Jannies never catched on. The game sold trillions.
>ACCURATE NAME
a wise man once said you can only know what you don't know
>X was the last turn based Final Fantasy…
Bros…
How is it that I was able to play 7 and understood the main plot fine but when I played 8, 10 and 13 I couldn't? Did they change writers? I didnt play 9.
Nomura stopped being a writer after 7. So it was just kitase and nojima.
8 is basically just pretending to have a story
DNP 9
10 I thought was pretty easy to understand
DNP 13
A lot of 8s story is told via codex entries in the school computer you can access. Most of which are Selphies diary entries.
There's also a lot of indirect context that you miss if you don't talk to a bunch of random NPCs.
If all you do is just blitz through the story without doing much else you only get like 60% of it, but if you talk to most of the NPCs around the major story points, and read all the codex shit, the story makes a lot more sense.
10 is incredibly straight forward until the Tidus twist is revealed that he's (essentially) just another Aeon, but even then it's mostly just a straightforward pilgrims journey
13 is also incredibly straight forward, they just use a handful of proper nounts like FalCie and LaCie and Caccoon and Pulse and what not without explaining them until later, but again if you read the codex entries into all of that the story is incredibly easy to understand.
Completely homosexual mentality that fails to recognize the actual shifts that people miss
>b-but the entries had changes in between each other
Holy frick you couldn't be more moronic even if you tried. This series is done
I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.
Acting like the "Command System" in 3, 7, X and 12 are in any way similar enough to justify acting as if 13 and 15 were some kind of jumping off point is a hundred times more disingenuous. And there's a lot more to a series identity than that, anyway.
Even if you don't wanna watch him go over the parts he loved and was frustrated with each entry, you should listen to the conclusion which explains the point being raised in this thread.
>you are in the minority
Literally critically acclaimed everywhere. I'm guessing your opinion is 100% based on Ganker threads, but even here nobody rates 12 lower than the upper quartile.
>so great it needed a complete remake to not be an absolute joke, and the remake is pure troonycore
Buzzword salad.
>zoomer fotm take
More buzzwords.
Great post.
>critically acclaimed
zoomer take. nobody but you niglets cares about ratings/sales figures/viewership. use your brain for something other than worrying whether or not the majority likes the same thing as you.
>buzzword
"buzzword" is a buzzword, moron. one zoomergays weren't even aware of until a month ago
FF5 was the single most stagnant game in the series
FF15 was the worst mainline entry. Yes, worse than 2, which actually introduced a ton of iconic elements.
Up until 15 it always had a command system. "It always changed" isn't a good argument when it comes to gameplay and is outright disingenuous, yet people still make it thinking it's a gotcha
Final Fantasy is different from each and every entry, but one thing that is consistent is the party system and the cast roles.
XV at least tried with this element, but what they forget that it also need to be an interesting characters that lift up the story.
Every single Final Fantasy adhere to this element, except for 16.
A single player action games that is too centered around the main character and this, at least for me, is not Final Fantasy game.
But I am nobody, and so does OP. Which is why he used a youtuber to make his point; appeal to authority.
Thus I will also do the same;
Japan hate it, they don't buy it. The game is selling like shit and thus it is shit.
Japanese FF fanbase > gaijin youtubers
>be an interesting characters that lift up the story.
>Every single Final Fantasy adhere to this element,
1 and 3 didn't even give the characters names lmao
>they forget that it also need to be an interesting characters that lift up the story.
Noct and his friends are interesting characters. I've seen plenty of 15 haters agree.
nocts game is a fricking terrible grind of drive to place and do thing, but the party are ok, teleporting to your sword is cool and its a good fishing game...
>Final Fantasy 4 removed all it's RPG elements
That's exactly why I despised it, literally all it has going for it is its artwork. The game itself is the singlemost linear piece of shit I have ever had the displeasure of playing.
FF always have a core theme that you and a party is out on an adventure.
As the story goes on, you learn more about your team members and bond with them more.
In FF16, there's nothing about team and nothing about bonding with them.
The hell with all that of that.
3 is one of the hardest ones tho... series is shit
Reminder that the only bad final fantasy is 2.
Every other game is decent at worst.
>Reminder that the only bad final fantasy is 2.
2 isn't even bad. It's just a SaGa game.
It's bad because
>encounter rates are ramped to 11
>Dungeons are utter shit on top of it
>revolving door 4th party member to a ridiculous degree
>leveling mechanics are moronic
The last one it isn't even that the idea of strengthening something via use is bad, but the way it was implemented was fricking dumb.
Well the video maker is moronic then. Especially with the generic hate of 13.
>Especially with the generic hate of 13.
He doesn't hate any of the games, he tries his best to point out the good parts of 13 and where he did enjoy himself, he just didn't have as much good stuff to say about it than the others.
His ultimate conclusion is that all the games are flawed, but they're all still really fun, and that he resents the way people talk about the games as if each new iteration is a betrayal of the games that they enjoyed in their childhood.
The only thing that is SaGa about it outside of the D&D references is the growth system, and it's the worst implementation of that formula
>first implementation of new idea is rough
wow no shit?
Thing is SaGa's not really about the growth system, as eccentric as that might be, if you think that's all there is to that series you clearly don't know anything about it
Funny enough he goes in to bat, hard for 2.
Seems the games he liked the least are 13, 15 and 1
Tornado Emperor and guest party members dying every dungeon is kino.
then why is it always about cringe weeb characters, cringe anime, crystals, and dumb birds, no choices?
Seems to me that FF as a brand is going to die in the next decade as zoomers don't care about it. Only boomers do and they will lose interest in gaming as they get older. My zoomer brothers only care about Crisis Core and Dissidia as they played them on PSP. They dont care about any other FF stuff.
Kind'a my thinking, but with less buzzwords.
Ultimately, FF became a household name with 7, and it got that from the amazing visuals and the marketing campaign focused entirely around the cut-scenes. X managed a pretty similar feat with lesser but similar results, but after that, they're in a tough position.
7 set FF on the path of wowing audiences with spectacle, but there's simply no path forwards for that anymore, not in the way 7 did. Which means it has to be about the story, or the gameplay, or something else. And with them mixing and matching it up each game, in every regard towards tone, setting, characters and genre, you've always got people that like some games, hate others, and thus no big core audience slathering for every single release.
>7 set FF on the path of wowing audiences with spectacle, but there's simply no path forwards for that anymore
What in the FRICK are you talking about? 16 is devisive but the one thing that basically everyone agress upon with 16 is that the spectacle is completely unrivaled in the industry.
But is that spectacle anywhere near as impressive as 7's was coming from 6 and the SNES era? Or is it just good?
Literally somewhere between 90%-100% of the marketing for 7 was on the cutscenes, that opening cinematic and the spectacle of those cutscenes catapulted FF into being a legendary series.
16 can't possibly match that, because the visuals and the fights aren't leaps and bounds ahead of what else is available or what the 15 was doing. They're ahead of it, but not to the same degree.
>16 can't possibly match that, because the visuals and the fights aren't leaps and bounds ahead of what else is available
Completely irrelevant and now you're changing the argument just to 'win' it. Last (you) you'll get from me.
That was, actually, the exact same argument I made in the first post.
Again, we're comparing
16 vs Contemporaries
7 vs Contemporaries
And 15 wasn't a world behind with fights like the Leviathan anyway.
Leviathan's "fight" was basic b***h tier compared to what happened in 16.
Are you crazy? Its pretty much agreed that its incredibly difficult for any future game to portray summons as impressively as 16 did. Clive literally rider kicked Titan in half and we had the Bahamut fight straight up being a /m/ anime in video game form.
Yes.
The titan/bahamut fights are legitimately two of the biggest spectacles I've seen in the last decade+ of video games.
How do you misunderstand the plot of X?
>A girl goes on a pilgrimage with the intent of killing herself in the end to save the world but she doesn't do it because she finds out that it was all a centuries old trick
I have to admit I'm surprised it's only five and a half hours long.
Ada dlc?
No, that wouldn't surprise me at all.
He probably glosses over half the games.
What would you do if you wanted to make younger people play FF? What gameplay would you make the game have?
I see games like persona 5 meet with whopping success and it occurs to me that the bog-standard turn-based formula still has an audience. It's not my thing but FF clearly didn't need to change to action combat to sell.
Just let ff be its own thing, it doesnt need to sell cod numbers
obviously but squeenx simply won't have anything less
>it doesnt need to sell cod numbers
Tell that to executives at SE. I do agree with you though.
I think JRPGs in general should exist as niche franchises. Think shit like Octopath. Not a huge bloated budget, but still put decent talent and a decent amount of money into the game. I enjoyed FF16 but I'm getting really tired of these games with 150+ million dollar budgets that take 5-8 years to develop. You just don't need that amount of bloat. Turn FF into a smaller more focused franchise where you pump out games every 2-3 years or something.
I understand that FF has now made a name for itself as being this cinematic experience so I highly doubt they'll ever move away from that, but the JRPG market just isn't what these executives want. JRPGs aren't going to sit and sell 20 million copies like a Zelda. It just isn't going to happen.
The demographic for games was so vastly different when shit like FF6 and FF7 were selling huge numbers compared to other stuff at the time. You just don't have that anymore. Yes, I know Pokemon is technically a JRPG that still sells huge numbers but that's the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of JRPG franchises aren't huge sellers and usually tend to do a million or so copies or less. But if your budget isn't fricking insane, then those numbers can still be good which is the frustrating thing to me.
P5 isn't popular because of the gameplay. Its popular despite its combat due to other factors present like the aesthetics, school simulator and narrative.
Don't bother.
They're the same people that say FF16 would have sold like BG3 if they kept the turned based combat, blissfully (or intentionally) unaware that games liie BG3 and P5 sell in spite of being turn based, not because of.
If that's the case then no one was playing FF for the combat and it still stands to reason that there was no need to change to action combat.
>P5 isn't popular because of the gameplay. Its popular despite its combat
I think more normalgays are comfortable with turn based combat than you think.
it just needs to be done well, and P5 does that.
If you gave them the option to take P5 and substitute the combat with some generic action combat, the average person would gladly exchange it in a heartbeat.
Wasn't everyone there when Yunalesca explained the truth behind the final summoning? Especially when at that point it was obvious that Tidus was her closest companion in the journey.
Every single normie that loves P5 prefaces their review with "Now, I usually hate JRPGs, but..." so I don't know if it's a good strategy to hang your hat on people loving turn based combat.
p5 is popular because of the social stuff AND the turn based combat system that was essentially pokemon before pokemon (og smts)
>younger people
>playing a JRPG
I dunno, make it a gacha or a battle royale? The only popular JRPG franchises with younger people is normie shit like Persona.
So maybe a Final Fantasy set in a japanese high school?
I'm just saying. Most of FF fans are like around 35-45 so you cant keep relying on them. You need to target younger people.
Nah, just do like capcom and remain multiplatform, find an easy engine and put games cheap in a year
Thats different. Resident Evil has much more mainstream appeal than FF.
I'd say go with the old Square approach. rapid fire new stories and titles until one of them stick.
You say that the oldgays are unreliable, but the young fricks are even more uncertain.
I'm not saying old gamers are unreliable. I'm just saying they are likely going to lose interest in games the older they get. Gaming is a young person thing. People in their 50s are not going to be playing games as much as a teenager or someone in their 20s.
Oldgays aren't losing interest because they are getting old, it's because the new games aren't even close to the game they played and catched their eyes, appealing to newer audiences ostracises the old audiences.
And i wouldn't bet on trying to catch the newer audiences as their attention spans are on an ever decreasing hill.
Solution to this problem is a clear distinction on the series branch, get a branch for the oldgays, a branch for experimental, and a branch for the newbies
But SE is way too overbloated to do that
>muh old
i only like insanely fast arena shooters but i prefer slow atb jrpgs over spammy action rpg garbage. explain
Are you zoomer?
no, an oldgay
>I only like insanely fast arena shooters
>I prefer slow atb jrpgs
You contradicted yourself already anon, if you prefer anything that isn't the fast arena shooters, then you don't only like them.
>What would you do if you wanted to make younger people play FF?
Character customization
Dating sim elements
Open world
Either turn based or soulslike gameplay
Dont forget nudity
Let's all agree FFXIV is the worst FF entry bar none.
If you mean 1.0, it's a contender.
Otherwise, frick off.
XIV ARR HW SB SHB EW IS THE WORST FF GAME EVER. FRICKING GARBAGE
So did anyone really care about 16? It seemed like it was way less of a deal than 15 and 13.
It was a much better game than 15 and 13 but such a departure from RPGs that it's in a weird place.
What's the consensus on the pixel remaster for 6? I've never played the game but I'm curious. The PR definitely has a lot of QOL improvements, bug fixes, and so on. I do appreciate some of the improved graphics, such as being able to see the city in the opening cutscene, and the flowing water particle effects on the raft battle.
But otherwise it overall looks fairly ugly, especially the sprites. The screen also stutters, which I didn't notice until someone pointed it out in a video and now I can't unsee it. I also don't like how they added more healing spots than in the original, making the game easier. Though I've heard the battle difficulty is harder so maybe that balances it out.
You can mod the sprites and UI on PC. That's the only place I'd bother with playing the pixel remaster. It's still insanely overpriced for what it is though. The entire collection should've been 40 bucks at most.
What if I play it on Switch?
And yeah the price is bullshit.
If you can get past the shitty sprites. I couldn't which is why I avoided getting it on Switch.
>What's the consensus on the pixel remaster for 6?
The definitive edition for me. Without question.
>The screen also stutters, which I didn't notice until someone pointed it out in a video and now I can't unsee it.
I had that with 5, I don't remember how I fixed it but there was some framerate issue or something.
Checking google, apparently its: "I fixed it by going into the NVIDIA Control Panel and enabling Triple Buffering + VSync."
I play on Switch though, so I can't fix the stuttering
I'm confused. That would mean they aren't definitive then.
>That would mean they aren't definitive then.
The purist way where you play the original games on the original hardware on the original patch is and always will be the definivite ways to play a game.
But that doesn't change the fact that the PRs are stil lthe best way to play those games.
>1 on PS1 with the ridiculous load times and horrible RPG-Maker sprites is the best version of 1
lmao
The definitive way to play FF 1-6 is modded PR on a Steam Deck in your bed for a couple hours before you fall asleep every night.
pr looks like dogshit for 6. it's like they want to make sure every iteration of 6 is worse than the original
You've got multiple options for sprites. Or do you mean the general overworld? Because there's mods for that too.
https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy6pixelremaster/mods/10
https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy6pixelremaster/mods/15
https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy6pixelremaster/mods/44
Commends like this annoy me so much. Ganker assumes everyone can mod it but a lot of people play on Switch and Ps4.
If you bought the PR on consoles, that's your own fault.
>open 6 with crt shader
>play the game
pass on buying/pirating/modding shit yet again when the original still mogs everything else and you don't have to buy it yet again
why bother modding shit when u can run retroarch and get a better experience in 2 minutes without some homosexual account
retroarch is trash.
still better than troony nexus and having to decide on sprites when you have perfectly fine ones already on the original
It's pretty clear you hold strong opinions over unrelated things than actually caring about the differences of the original final fantasy games and the pixel remasters.
the differences aren't worth it
it's simple as that and none of the ports are genuinely better than the original
none of them are objectively better in every way
they didn't even bother to do real HD sprites
5 is.
There's absolutely no reason to emulate 5 over the PR. The fact it's got a proper translation alone makes the PR the definitive version.
Not him, but the GBA version has the same translation as the PR.
5 GBA version has those fricking godawful character portraits. YMMV but I cannot stand them and refuse to have them in my game.
>open any emulator for snes
>have reshade auto apply crt-royale
doesn't matter
What I don't get is why they slowed things down so much in 6 PR.
The magitek in the opening credits moves so much slower in the snow and covers much less ground.
The scenes where they ride chocobos, despite having a run animation, moves at a rate of walking.
The minecart ride is slower and feels like a theme park ride as opposed to a fast chase type of scene.
I don't understand why they did this.
OG FF6 was too fast for zoomers
You'd think it would be the opposite. With so much ADHD these days, Tiktok and other bullshit, you would think they need some hyper, fast-paced looking game. Yet they slowed it down. It makes no sense.
>What I don't get is why they slowed things down so much in 6 PR.
because they weren't the original direction and Yoshinori Kitase "supervising" 30 years later when he's close to his death bed doesn't mean shit. enough remakes, enough remasters. just enough.
>because they weren't the original direction
That doesn't explain anything. Why not just... match the speed of the original? Why slow it down? It was such a random decision.
>that doesn't explain anything
literally directed to appear more cinematic and because they don't know what they are doing, it looks worse. not hard to understand
>ridiculous load times
That was the ports of 4, 5 and 6
>That was the ports of 5 and 6
ftfy. 4 is fine (except for saving your game)
And also 1 and 2.
I owned and played all of those. Anthonlogy, Chronicles, Origins. They all had abysmal load times. Sure, 1 and 2 were shorter than 4-6+CT, but the fact that they had load times at all is a disservice.
Buddy, you have no idea.
>that they had load times at all is a disservice.
This is the PS1 we are talking about. All JRPGs on the system had loading times
>All JRPGs on the system had loading times
Sure, but not all JRPGs on the system were ports of older games on older generations of hardware that previously had no load times and are now plagued with them everytime you do anything.
There's a sizable difference.
Origins wasn't a simple port, it was pretty much a remake
Looks like the PR versions of 4 and 6 do that on all versions, Switch and PS, so the PC is the only one that can fix them.
>What's the consensus on the pixel remaster
Unless you're playing on the original hardware (or emulating the original versions of the game) the PRs are above and beyond the best versions of 1-6 you can currently play.
Don't listen to the autistic dipshits that complain because the pixels have slightly different colors. The translations are the closest to the original script, the QOL feature are unmatched, the ease of use and uniformity between all the releases can't be understated enough.
1 is best on PS1
>The translations are the closest to the original script
This was the big one for me. FF5 especially, which was always hamstrung by no official translation.
It's good and you can mod the shit out of it
i'd have been interested in 16 if I had any interest in purchasing a PS5 (I don't)
Basically me. I'll get it on PC.
honestly my big problem with final fantasy always reinventing the wheel is that they have this concept for a battle system that is used once and never again
even the ones that were pretty messy had ideas that could be used better, but are never used again
hell they could even try using those mechanics on other games if all they want is to keep doing final fantasy as a ideas pushed series
>honestly my big problem with final fantasy always reinventing the wheel is that they have this concept for a battle system that is used once and never again
He makes that exact point. 5 is a perfect example, where they had this system in 3, then perfected it in 5 with a Job System that's become so beloved it's practically iconic and has been used in a whole raft of spin offs.
Meanwhile, we're constantly re-inventing the wheel that from 8->X they iterated on a whole bunch of different, but worse, versions of the Limit Break system before finally just ending back with 7's superior one in X.
8's limit break was completely insane
How did 9's work
You have a trance bar that is slowly filled and once filled you automatically go into trance mode which does a number of things for each different character, modifying (or outright changing) some of their skills and increasing their magic/physical dmaage output.
If you could pick when you trigger the Trance mode it would be fantastic, but because it's just goes off whenever the bar is full, you end up blowing it in random battles just before a boss over and over again.
>7s LB
>Good
>Better than 8s
>Actually implying 10s LB system is good
How about no?
shut up mindlessly contrarian homosexual
>No counterargument, so regurgitates a few buzzwords
7's was fantastic. 8's required sitting at low HP and were gimmicky at best. X lets you just choose what you prefer.
>7 replaces attack with LB
No, it was not.
FF7 isn't a game where you should be just mashing Attack normally, Anon. And if it's such a big deal to save your LB you can skip turn
Thank you for proving you have not played 7
Best limit break is 16's(because it's basically devil trigger)
>Final Fantasy 3 was a massive casualisation of the series
Black person FF1 was fast forward: the game
Is 16 performance fixed yet? I haven't got a PS5 yet but might get one this week as there's a bundle in EU now for 500 Euro and I'll just sell the bundled game and buy 16 instead.
Use quality mode for 16 if you intend to buy it on PS5. Quality gives 30 fps roaming and exploration but battles are always locked to 60 fps. Performance mode is worse because of 45 fps exploration and looks blurry. Or wait for PC release.
>Quality gives 30 fps roaming and exploration but battles are always locked to 60 fps.
Thats interesting. Seems like a reasonable way to do it. As combat would be the only part where you would really need 60fps.
Yeah, DF actually looked it up:
?si=bFAy1jPgmdOqKWTj&t=1280
Sorry I was wrong, 60 fps battles are exclusive to performance mode. No idea if they patched it to quality mode though.
>Final Fantasy: We want the Game of Thrones audience
ok that didn't go totally great.
What audience should they go for next?
Incel audience
Soulsborne
Vagrant Story remake when
As discussed in the video: 16 isn't like GoT at all, except maybe in the world map design.
It never indulges itself in grimdark nonsense, it's a dark fantasy world, but centred around a heroic cast and following an optimistic story. It's 100% a Final Fantasy narrative, not a western fantasy one.
And yet FFWNG.
Has anyone noticed that the PR games use the same assets across games? I've noticed that the pirate sprite is identical in 2 and 5 (maybe in other games too but I haven't noticed). People are also saying that the spell effects in 1-5 are all the same. And the world map of every game looks identical too.
Are there other examples of this, and why the hell would they do it? Makes it feel much more cheap.
>Are there other examples of this
I assume the White Mage & Black Mage NPC sprites are identical between 1 through 4
It was pretty sure since Square bought Enix that FF was always about innovation/changes while their "small" ip DQ was always about traditionalism.
Final Fantasy 1 through 12 are masterworks all, you can't go wrong.
16 is a good game, the reason it didn't sell is because the FF brand has been in freefall since FFX.
16 is a shit game for morons who should frick off and play the last of us 2 or whatever other moviegame for morons is released that week
FF9 is more of a movie game than FF16 is and most of you idiots think FF9 is the best game in the series.
enjoying slop already makes you subhuman
but going out of your way to try and defend slop with dishonesty and false equivalences is the work of truly fricked up mutants
How are the pixel remasters for a new player to the series
best music and scenery, which are the best parts of those games. lots of bugfixes, QoL upgrades, and easier difficulty, but nobody is playing these games for the basic gameplay/difficulty anyway. biggest issue is the font, but that can be fixed easily by renaming two folders. there's some censorship, localization issues, and other horseshit but nothing major and unless you're playing the original releases in Jap you're not getting the 'true experience' anyway so unless you're willing to go that route the PRs are probably your best bet.
>that can be fixed easily by renaming two folders
I'm playing on Switch though. would you still recommend it then?
IIRC Switch has an alternate font that's pretty decent.
652147902
X haters really aren't bringing their best
16 being just 1 guy with no party was a mistake.
Maybe you should play the game before you make dumb posts like this.
I dont have a PS5 yet. I'll get one for 7 Rebirth and try 16 then.
Temp party members who you dont even control dont count.
Time for the real debate, anons.
Ted Woolsey or Tom Slattery translation?
Woolsey was always good and I'll die on this hill
His only flaws were SS working him like a slave Black person, and being forced to follow NOA censor rules
And still was an RPG in every change (spin off aside)
final fantasy has always sucked
a video game franchise for people who hate video games
but enough about Call of Duty
call of duty is the american final fantasy
FF16 is tonally a massive change from previous games but it does it well nevertheless so I have no issues with that - playing it atm and while I have a few gripes (Clive is not translated well to English, too many inconsequential loot, boring sidequests, inconsistent pacing), I'd still say its overall a great game because the story and setting are great, the graphics are top of its class, the combat is fun, and the characters are well rounded.
>FF16 is tonally a massive change from previous games
It's tonally identical to FF15.
I wouldn't say its tonally heavily derived from previous games. I see some similarity with FFT esp with the "heroes viewed as villains" angle. When I say tone, its more of the vibe of the game - ie: FF16 takes itself a lot more seriously, there is a lot less humor and some scenes are just depressing - this isnt necessarily bad though, and I think they pull it off well in most cases (in my playthrough so far only the brothel scene stands out as funny, and its very lowkey)
Also, I started learning Japanese seriously a few months ago and oh boy it is true that sometimes English translations are essentially just parodies of the Japanese original script. Clive is a lot more stoic and man-of-few-words in the original.
>Clive is a lot more stoic and man-of-few-words in the original.
>in the original
The English translation is "the original" for FF16 you actual clown. So much so that they were quite literally figuing out the dialog and tone with Ben Starr while he was recording.
why would the dialogue of a japanese game be originally in english? forgive me for assuming a japanese game with japanese writers wrote a japanese script with japanese dialogue.
Because the JP player base is a fraction of the WW player base that speaks English.
They unironically recommended that nips play 16 in English too.
Pretty much swapped the EN and JP localization around this time, it's insane how much better acted and more coherent the EN script is.
>Jap franchise/company decides to design product to fundamentally appeal to westerners
>immediately turns to shit
every time, why don't they learn? it's Capcom all over again. you can have all the western influences on your game that you want, but as soon as you change the beating heart to be ENG instead of JP, it corrupts the entirety.
turns to shit
the frick have you been for the last 20years of FF releases?
You do know capcom is the most successful ot has ever been right
I'm not talking about modern Capcom, I'm talking about Inafune-inspired DmC era Capcom. Modern era Capcom is weak but nothing compared to how shit things were back then.
Modern Capcom is possibly even more western influenced than when Inafune was farming out Capcom IPs to actual western studios.
They're on the right path.
You need to aim at Ghost of Tsushima and God of War tier products for Sony, not Ubisoft remake number 23846534258638457.
Capcom games never had Jap dubs until very recently moron. RE4's original language is English for example.
>but as soon as you change the beating heart to be ENG instead of JP,
Well I guess RE and DMC were always shit since day considering they never had JP vas for years and ENG only dialog
Tell me you've never played a FF game before in your life.
>unironic weeb post
Oh frick off
Japanese stories are moronic 95% of the time, no matter the medium
frick.. ill try english voices but if its not too far away in quality ill retain japanese since its good practice..
>if its not too far away in quality
EN completely mogs JP in this case
>ill retain japanese since its good practice..
The game was literally written in english and then localized into JP. You're only doing yourself and the game a disservice by playing it in JP when you clearly speak english.
JP is an afterthought to the point that they don't even have JP lip sync.
English VA for FF16 for Clive, Cid, Gav and a few other characters are far superior.
However if you play in Japanese you will get some extra lines for a couple of the characters that aren't in the English voiced version of the game.
SE makes some really strange decisions sometimes.
>Tonally a massive change from previous games
The game makes no effort to hide that its plot is heavily derived from previous games. Especially FFT.
>5 hours
I linked the conclusion because that's the relevant part of the thread. The rest is just him talking about each of the games, their context and mechanics, and explaining why he likes them and where he thinks they fell short.
what is better between ff4/5 on gba and ff4/5 pixel remaster
besides extra content
The GBA versions were always shit, only tendies defended them
>whats better between [these two versions]
Pixel Remaster.
Doesn't matter what game you're talking about, or what other versions you're comparing them to.
>Still shilling
>or what other versions you're comparing them to.
so pr is even better than snes originals?
half the mechanics in the originals are busted, so yes.
Oh. I'll buy all the pixel remasters right away sir ty
PR is better in every single sense, except some garbage extra content.
FFgays are the lowest IQ fanbase on Ganker
>download a bunch of 7th heaven mods for FF7
>end up feeling like the original graphics / art is better
Weird. I lasted like an hour before I just swapped back. The only thing I thought was a bit better was the battle sprites.
>installing tons of shitty mods with no clear direction was a mistake
yes
this is exactly why modding is gay
there's almost never a time when I'm truly happy with what I just did
it's always the same story it's either ugly as frick ai upscales or some very ugly artistically shitty textures or the same textures but slightly more sharper
FF mods has almost always been shitty, the only good ones are usually the ones that at least try to make the game harder or closer to the original console versions
Yeah. New Threat is cool. There's a few FF randomizers that are neat too, but I'm not sure if those are considered mods instead of just romhacks.
>FF4
http://ff4fe.com/
>FF5
https://www.bigbridge.studio/careerday/
>FF6
https://www.ff6wc.com/
Randomisers are a weird intermediary, kinda being a new game while also being a mod of the original.
Ganker approved ecelebs:
>matthewmathosis
>neverknowsbest
>shamus young
>mrbtongue
not Ganker approved celebs:
>crowbcat
>joseph anderson
>generally anybody with 300k+ subscribers
anyone else i should add to the list?
your mum
Ganker approved ecelebs:
>matthewmathosis
>neverknowsbest
>shamus young
>mrbtongue
>your mum
not Ganker approved celebs:
>crowbcat
>joseph anderson
>generally anybody with 300k+ subscribers
>not Ganker approved celebs:
>crowbcat
You hate him because he was right about RE4 demake.
Ganker hates him because he turned out to be another slave to the public opinion, revising his old statements constantly
>revising his old statements constantly
literally didn't happen.
>B-BUT HE CHANGED THE VIDEO TITLE
as a joke. I'm sorry you're humour-impaired.
he removed his starfield comment when people started hating on the game
Only matt is good
Neverknowsbest for giving legitimate criticism on Elden Ring during the height of it's popularity showed he doesn't give a shit about clout chasing, the easy thing would have been to suck off the game and it's fanbase, he didn't do that and you know what? He was completely right about everything he said about the game.
watch his outer worlds critique, it was a similar case with that game for me. everybody kept dickriding the game just to say "haha take that bethesda!" ignoring what a lukewarm game it itself was
You're missing Resonant Arc and Retrograde Amnesia.
Its nuts how expensive the pixel remaster is lol. Its like 75 Euro. Mad for such basic remasters of 30 years old games.
only because square enix has braindead fanboys
if this were any other company besides nintendo
it would be a 30$ package
>it's f-f-fine it's shit just install mods to fix it
nostalgia gays are doomed to buy the 10+ iterations of the same game until it will once and for all be the best version, which will never actually happen but corporations will be happy that the fan(atic)s are so moronic
The best versions of most of the games are still on PS1. The people who buy PR are simply people who enjoy consumption for the purposes of identification.
>I bought PR
>I am a FF fan
etc.
You're not wrong but Pixel Remaster seems to have some good things about it.
>SNES versions have good visuals and sound, but a shitty translation
>GBA versions have a good translation with shitty visuals and sound
>Pixel Remaster has good visuals, sound, and translation + bug fixes... at the expense of slightly worse sprites and slight stuttering
So I guess that's good in a way.
>Pixel Remaster has good visuals
lmao lol
name a version of the game that looks better without filters and other emulator shit.
ff6 snes, you know, the original
By visuals I mean it has (mostly) proper colors, good resolution, and so on. I already acknowledged that the sprites were worse.
The FF6 opening looks great, for example. You can actually see Narshe in the background.
if I don't care about extra content, how are the gba versions of 4 and 5? am I better off buying pixel remaster?
>if I don't care about extra content
then go for the PR.
he cant explain shit, he enjoy talk much. what did you expect when you made this thread? for people to be amazed or something? If someone made a 5 hours video, good, but people always expect read a long text file with pictures
At least music is always good in FF. Thats the 1 consistent element.
this is gonna sound slightly stupid but XVI's soundtrack is almost underrated. People give the dominant themes respect which is good, but a lot of the area themes and cutscene themes went under the radar. Either way, its easily the best OST this year
> And ER absolute demolishes that style
So, the guy is basically saying that ER betrayed the Souls fans, but it's okay if FF did it?
Ok
Are you moronic? Souls wasn't developed by Square Enix.
From Software literally hates innovation, the complete opposite of Square Enix.
>i-it's okay when square enix does it
Ok
No? OP's dude literally shat on every single FF game.
Nah
How so?
He certainly has some agenda to push, it's not working sorry
the "I shit on every game I play" agenda? He spent like 2 hours shitting on troonyfinder
Not working sorry
What?
Hello? Do you speak Human?
>i-it's okay when square enix does it
You should hear yourself talk. What's next on the agenda
XVI's soundtrack is the worst ever for a FF game. Masayoshi Soken has shown himself to be a great composer but XVI is his weakest work ever. Individual tracks like Find the Flame and To Sail Forbidden Seas are awesome, but the soundtrack as a whole is super one dimensional and most of the songs sound the same. Definitely no way the soundtrack is better than Baldur's Gate 3 soundtrack.
?si=Og4SlvVThg4s7fK-
?si=28Z_FHWIMmSRbuoV
>Definitely no way the soundtrack is better than Baldur's Gate 3 soundtrack.
baaaaaait
NTA BG3 OST is easily one of, if not the nost covered vidya music this year, it's pretty much a
shoe in for music of the year candidate
There are literally 2 songs anyone ever talks about when it comes to BG3, the character creator song where the singer goes DOWN DOWN, DOWN DOWN, DOWN DOWN DOWN BY THE RIVER, and the fight in Rapheals house where the voice actor himself starts singing a song about how you fricked up now that you're fighting him in his domain.
Every other bit of song is just ambient nothing. You're out of your fricking mind if yout think BG3 is even in the RUNNING for best soundtrack of hte year, let alone winning.
Screencapped btw
troony gate sisters are in for a rude awakening.
Outside of your little bubble, no one cares about ff16 songs, I doubt the normies have ever heard let alone know an ff16 song title
?si=xz20nE2mPtluIwH9
?si=9U0xdW_t83rlN5iE
>screen capping posts just to pull a gotcha 2+ months later in threads where you will have a zero % chance of ever knowing if I'm in them or not
lmao whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
You are out of your mind if you think the soundtrack for BG3 is better than FF16.
2, 3, 8, 10-2, 12, 13, 13-2, LR13, 15 all have forgettable soundtracks that I cannot remember more than 2-3 tracks per game, meanwhile half of the FF16 soundtrack has been ripping through my brain the last 3 months and shows no signs of stopping anytime soon.
2's is one of the best in the series though.
12's soundtrack is sleep-inducing.
>one-dimensional
?si=maL4_WIXGlQbjHG_
?si=pduyj-Gf9Gp2EZW3
?si=GfOm8swlUAqn_Rtb
?si=_aBqTOjn2ag71-BQ
?si=rhiL1SsNKyX26Yuy
I haven't played XIV but you can expect the soundtrack for XVI to follow a theme a little more closely because its not a continuous story that builds upon itself with new expansions and content. I also heavily disagree with that baldur's gate 3 music opinion. I already thought that JRPGs have been dancing circles around Western rpgs and crpgs for a long time now, and its no different here.
also spoiler for the thumbnail on the last link. my bad.
>I haven't played XIV
XIVs soundtrack is legitimately one of the best gaming soundtracks of all time. It's staggering how many 10/10 songs each expansion has, especially when they're used in context.
Someone make new bread quick.
These are awful
I only played 7, 8, 10, 13, Crisis Core and 7 Remake. And I didn't finish 10. I stopped at the boss fight against the goofy hair guy.
Are we sure this guy is not a troony?
never mind, now im sure he's a legit troony or a homosexual
The guy sounds like he's too far up in his ass, he even passive aggressively called elden ring overrated, without making any reasonable arguments, his whole video basically said popular is bad, me hates
>his whole video basically said popular is bad, me hates
No, it didn't.
It said, "There was a very specific style of gameplay in the previous Dark Souls games that myself and many other people enjoyed, and that seemed to be celebrated. And ER absolute demolishes that style, and expects you to just switch up. Most people can and have- I didn't want to. Playing like they wanted me too wasn't fun, and trying to play like I did want to was absolutely un-enjoyable."
You can argue the merits of his take back and forth, but he obviously has no issue with a game being popular when he fricking loved the original Dark Souls 1. You're being ridiculous.
how do you come up with this cope after you say that FF should be DMC-slop? kek. MMO-troons are fricking moronic
You're moronic
>Are we
>we
You can't conjure an an opinion for yourself, you need the reinforcement of group think? Weak minded homosexual.
My favorite part of the video is when he introduces FFX and goes
>ATB....IS DEAD LOL GET FRICKED SHITTY ASS COMBAT MECHANIC
And stops being le ebin serious analysis for 1 second just to utterly shit on ATB, the worst combat system ever made since Real Time With Pause was invented.
>onions-facing over some e-celeb video
>seething over ATB
kek
bump
>the worst combat system ever made since Real Time With Pause was invented.
I will admit that's a great meme image. It doesn't reflect RTWP gameplay tho, but it's funny.
Why do some people so desperately try to argue that ATB somehow isn't turnbased?
I always just enable wait mode in ATB anyway so I always found the argument to be silly.
It is turnbased though?
Yeah. But every time you claim that it is, some moron(s) will insist otherwise.
>5 hours and 39 minutes
????? Can AI just summarize videos yet?
I linked the conclusion, gentle Anon. That's the only part that's relevant to this thread. The rest is him going through the series, talking about each game, why he likes them and where frustrated him.
I will not open your video Jeff Lebowsky
Is there a non-moron retrospective on the Final Fantasy series?
No, because the only people who ever make these videos are always bitter homosexuals looking for views
The one in the OP.
>The one in the OP.
No
.
>Collecting all Blue Mage spells in FF5
I definitely should've been grabbing these as I went instead of waiting until the 3rd world to do this.
Be sure to do the cool thing and use self destruct on omniscient.
>playing through pixel remaster
>they include a bestiary
>oh that's pretty neat
>it can only be accessed by quitting the game and going to the main menu
um...squareenix? huh?
There's a 2nd way to access, under config from options. Bit of a weird place to put it (why not the map screen?) but yeah
Also not my pic, just stole it from a video
Depends on the game. I just finished FF4 PR, and I'm almost certain that the bestiary is only accessible from the main menu.
Hah, yeah I wouldn't be surprised about the lack of consistency
>Black folk actually watching the linked video
if this is (You), then simply go back
>not even an eceleb
>just some random literal who
>not even fact
>just some opinion
And why should I care about this random literal who opinion again?
I thought the Pixel Remaster games were supposed to bethe easiest versions and you level up much faster? I'm finding it much harder than the GBA versions which were pretty easy.
Which is a good thing I think. But is this the actual difficulty as intended? I know the PR games are technically full remakes so it makes me wonder how the battles were programmed.
Its all over the place IIRC, FF4 is easier others were made harder etc etc
I forgot to mention that I'm currently playing 4 and I'm finding it much harder than GBA. I've gotten my shit kicked in on a few bosses that were a breeze in GBA.
Regardless, why is the difficulty so inconsistent across games? Were the originals like that?
>Were the originals like that?
Nah they did change a bunch of the stats from the original games and such, mainly to give them some kind of difficulty, its most apparent with the first 3 FFs
They fixed a lot of the bugs and some of the QoL features like quick save makes certain parts of the various games easier, like Crystal Tower in FF3, where it's a long-ass dungeon with dangerous enemies and no save points whatsoever. FF4's NTSC SNES version had notably lower difficulty than the JP version, but the Pixel Remaster is more in line with the JP SNES version in terms of difficulty (aside from having the EXP requirements cut in half, but that's more anti-grind than changing boss mechanics).
But what about the GBA version of FF4? That's the one I'm comparing it to, and the GBA version is much easier than PR.
>Be me, huge FF Fan
>Will never fricking play XIV, it's an MMO and it doesn't count.
>After playing XVI decide to play XIV because I want to see why XIV is so revered.
>It starts off really slow and shit, no one is likeable, the villains are generic and it has a predictable plot
>This close to uninstalling but decided to play it for the FF Fan service and I had nothing to play
>Get to the second expansion and everything jumps in quality.
>As the story continues, the main party becomes likeable, the world building is insane and you get to travel all over the world. You get into the political ravels of a Dragoon society fighting a thousand year war, start a rebellion, go to the east and become a Samurai, go to Ivalice and visit Damalsca, become the warrior of darkness, reunite with old friends, Nier shit, learn what is really going on with Hydaelyn and the Ascians, resulting in knowing the past and eventually going to space to do crazy shit.
I'm shilling FFXIV for any FF Fan that is on the fence on XIV and hasn't given it a shot. It's really fricking good. The game could be played 90% on single player, the only thing that holds it back is a A Realm Reborn.
>I'm shilling FFXIV for any FF Fan that is on the fence on XIV and hasn't given it a shot. It's really fricking good.
You can be the biggest Final Fantasy fan on the planet. But if you don't like MMOs then you're unlikely to like XIV.
On the flipside you can loathe Final Fantasy and have a negative opinion/experience with every single Final Fantasy game aside from XIV. And still enjoy XIV if you love MMOs.
>But if you don't like MMOs then you're unlikely to like XIV.
However FFXI is different. Everyone loves that game because it's the best game of all time.
Believe that if you will.
>the only thing that holds it back is a A Realm Reborn.
and SB
And about half of ShB
And ESPECIALLY EW.
>>Be me, huge FF Fan
this doesn't mean anything.
>mmo-troons desperately making and shilling youtube videos
>for the shittiest FF of all time
holy fricking KEK
>is the same genre for 10+ entries straight
>"final fantasy never had an identity"
(You)
mmo-sisters...why didn't they support our mmo-man?