Because Finchinator is not a single bit different from the average person who becomes a Smogon devotee.
Please let that sink in. Every Smogonite is exactly like this. The organization exists and always has for this exact kind of person with this exact mentality and thought process. This is what it's for and this is how they are down to the core.
The problem with Smogon is the refusal to make balance changes themselves to be "cart accurate". This is despite the fact that they have freeze clause, sleep clause, and also allow event Pokemon despite how unrealistic it would be to get shit like Wish Chansey without hacking.
i've been deving a spreadsheet about how i'd buff every mon using vanilla mechanics only, doubles focused. anyone wanna look and make suggestions? it's a big fricking mess right now though
>smoshit banned ogerpon and bloodmoon ursaluna, two perfectly fine pokemon that can easily be countered >smoshit wants to ban even more
I HATE SMOGON
I HATE SMOGON
I HATE SMOGON
>Higher effective attack than Zacian-C with higher BP moves >Balanced
Not even VGCuck agree with you. Wolfie thinks Ogerpon is damn broken.
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 271-321 (67 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery >There are homies in Ganker that defend Pokemon stronger than Zacian without Truant or Hoopa-U tier flaws being OU.
Lol lmao.
And yet Smogon lets Kingambit run around!
Curious! It's as if Smogon are playing favorites and they happen to love Kingambit and hate the ogre!
It's fascinating how transparently and blatantly Smogon is letting favoritism play a role in what they ban and don't ban!
Kingambit is on the radar for being banned, moron.
>+1 ogre >ogrepon is terad
Nice comparison moron
The only reason why you wouldn't Tera Ogerpon Fire immediately is so you can use Mold Breaker against Flash Fire users on the opponent's team if they have them. Even if you don't Tera, Ogerpon still has an effective 154 Atk stat thanks to the masks providing a universal x1.2 boost to all attacks.
If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
This. The amount of cope Smogon has surrounding Tera is hilarious.
Finch is saying he wants to ban tera because it blocks the "reliable switch in" meta and is basically having a shitfit because they can't Dynamax it this gen.
>If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
Which is best used on something with pre-nerf Intrepid Sword.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
The only Pokemon with a maybe more valuable tera is Kingambit, and Kingambit is just a wincon in the back anyways. If you Tera Ogerpon and remove the threats that would cause Kingambit to Tera, you don't have to save Tera for Kingambit.
Tera Ogerpon really isn't the magical catch-all you think it is. We literally saw an example of it not being able to Tera due to the matchup against the opponent earlier today in Sacramento grands-it's extra breaking power wasn't worth giving up the defensive utility of another mon's Tera. Stop acting like a Pokemon being a Tera hog (or otherwise reliant on Tera to get the absolute most of it) isn't a detriment.
8 months ago
Anonymous
We don't give a shit about fanfic format. We're talking about real Pokemon (6v6 singles).
>If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
The only Pokemon with a maybe more valuable tera is Kingambit, and Kingambit is just a wincon in the back anyways. If you Tera Ogerpon and remove the threats that would cause Kingambit to Tera, you don't have to save Tera for Kingambit.
>I don't think any one ban solves it and I'm frustrated by that >I don't rly think we did anything wrong either
It's almost like Tera is the biggest offender to these YOU DUMB FRICKING SMOGBlack person. Ban the offending gimmick and I promise you a lot of these issues goes away overnight.
Also not sure where he's going with Gliscor. It's almost as if Gamefreak made a Pokemon that makes Hazard counterplay nonexistent and forces you to play moronic goose chases with mandatory boots on most item slots. Gliscor is a symptom to the problem, not an actual problem. You want Spikes Gliscor to be dealt with? Ban Ghold instead. It's really that easy.
I don't understand why he doesn't mind kingambit at all.
Kingambit is essential to the meta game has plenty of counterplay. Get better at playing the fanfic meta you spoonfeeders.
>It's almost like Tera is the biggest offender to these YOU DUMB FRICKING SMOGBlack person. Ban the offending gimmick and I promise you a lot of these issues goes away overnight.
you don't want to play gen 9 pokémon
>you don't want to play a terrible OU meta game infested with poor banning decisions and overall reluctantly to address actual issues. >Implying not playing Gen 9 is a bad thing
Yeah I rather play some tolerable metagames instead. Not the autism you huff all day, thank you very much.
Except the difference between Finch and your average SmogBlack person is that majority of them aren't as autistically stunned as Finch is. Do you honestly think he "didnt do anything wrong" when there's absolutely things going wrong right now?
Like are we not going to address Ghold? Are we still pretending Tera is healthy for the meta? I think it's absolutely baffling that Finch thinks Ghold is ok, but moans at the prospect of shit like Gliscor and Kingambit, two reasonably fine Pokemons, with the former being moreso a side effect to Ghold's warping of the meta game like I mentioned.
And many of these issues are due in part of Tera. He specifically points out Tera Poison Manaphy and Roaring Moon, not realizing the irony of what he's saying.
Anyways yes, most of us are smogBlack folk or larping to be against the fanfic meta but at least we realize how fricking bad this is getting. Gen 5 OU being preferred by some of the homosexuals in this thread speaks volumes of what's going on.
8 months ago
Anonymous
don't care didn't read
8 months ago
Anonymous
Tera survived two fricking votes, I'm surprised they still haven't at least changed it to Tera types on preview though
8 months ago
Anonymous
>the difference between Finch and your average SmogBlack person is that majority of them aren't as autistically stunned as Finch is
not even remotely true >Do you honestly think he "didnt do anything wrong" when there's absolutely things going wrong right now?
I think he did nothing any other smogongay in his position wouldn't do, barring the fact he's a israelite >Are we still pretending Tera is healthy for the meta?
being anti-generational gimmick is one of the surest signs of a smogongay >Anyways yes, most of us are smogBlack folk
glad you're not pretending or deluded about it >Gen 5 OU being preferred by some of the homosexuals in this thread
nobody's actually said that
8 months ago
Anonymous
>being anti-generational gimmick is one of the surest signs of a smogongay
Most of them are shit though. Generational gimmicks are the worst thing to happen to the competitive side of the series. Tera is no exception. The only thing we can both slightly agree on is that it's that Tera isn't as bad as Dyanmax was. But that's a low bar to reach. All it does is appeal to ADHD story only zoomers who want a reason to consume the latest game. It adds an extra layer to the game that is very unfun to deal with. Especially with stuff like how Z moves and Gen 5 gems were implemented (Though I wouldn't say Gen 5 gems are a regional gimmick, but they sorta function in the same territory anyways). >nobody's actually said that
>We don't want a repeat of Gen 5 OU after all.
i really really do
>I think he did nothing any other smogongay in his position wouldn't do, barring the fact he's a israelite
He has a terrible way to go about bans rn. And I think he's too much of a pussy to actually shape up the meta game, or at things settle down with meta adaptations before quick banning. He's a weak council leader and that is what is making OU rot to hell right now.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Most of them are shit though
wrong
only one was: Z-Moves >Generational gimmicks are the worst thing to happen to the competitive side of the series.
absolutely false
it was the introduction of Stealth Rock and its widespread distribution
even the existence / distribution of Toxic was worse than generational gimmicks >Tera is no exception
it is
there's nothing wrong whatsoever with Terastalization >The only thing we can both slightly agree on is that it's that Tera isn't as bad as Dyanmax was.
I think Dynamax was based, mechanically. Tera is rather dull. >All it does is appeal to ADHD
you sound like a stallgay >It adds an extra layer to the game that is very unfun to deal with
you really are just a smogongay, that wants the game to be as limited and predictable as possible and spergs when he gets caught off-guard or outplayed because of something you failed to account for in the builder >Gen 5 gems were implemented
there was nothing wrong with Gems
they're fairer than Z-Moves >
>We don't want a repeat of Gen 5 OU after all.
i really really do
you have no clue what he even meant
8 months ago
Anonymous
I'm pretty sure even VGC players hated Dynamax, they even started playing VGC without Dynamax, Spikemuth Cup, cause the meta was boring
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Spikemuth Cup
https://www.serebii.net/swordshield/onlinecompetitions/spikemuthcup.shtml
says it was a Singles format
so not VGC
8 months ago
Anonymous
That looks like an individual event, look up Spikemuth Cup on youtube, it was a format that was VGC without legendaries and Dyna, similar to how Little Cup is pokémon but with Level 5 mons that aren't evolved.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>without legendaries
literally all you need to fix all competitive pokemon formats overnight, not a single other change necessary
8 months ago
Anonymous
deranged
8 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah I'm sure getting rid of Articuno and Regirock is really gonna fix all the metas lol
8 months ago
Anonymous
as a consequence of everything else being prohibited, absolutely
8 months ago
Anonymous
So like in your diseased schizo brain does banning heatran somehow lower the power level of Pokemon like Blood Moon?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Legendaries already warp the tier around their presence such that you have to spread your team thin to account for them. With all of them gone, powerful non-legendary threats become easier to manage, not because of missing counterplay or whatever, but because you can now build your team in such a way to devote more resources to dealing with those kinds of threats, whereas before you maybe couldn't afford to run it else risk losing to the more common legendary threats.
As to the direct answer to your question, nobody can say how people will adapt to a current meta even 2 weeks from now, let alone in a hypothetical one like this
8 months ago
Anonymous
The best Pokemon currently in OU aren't even legendaries.
8 months ago
Anonymous
they banned 10 of them from OU already
8 months ago
Anonymous
Exactly my point.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It's an arbitrary distinction. You can achieve a similar effect by banning just the Paradoxes. Or just Pokemon past a certain BST. Or every Fairy or Steel type.
It would just turn OU into a bigger clown meta than it already is.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>the Paradoxes
those are minor legendaries >It's an arbitrary distinction
no it isn't
legendaries are designed to be significantly stronger than most other mons
8 months ago
Anonymous
Such mental gymnastics to justify your moronic and highly arbitrary position. The in-game battle facilities don't even restrict legendaries beyond mythicals and the Pokemon that are purposefully statted to be exceptionally ahead of the pack. Has there even been a vgc rule set where ALL legends were banned? Do you get mad when you see npcs use legendaries in the battle facilities? (This last question is purely rhetorical, I can tell you don't actually play the games at anything beyond a casual level)
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Has there even been a vgc rule set where ALL legends were banned?
SV series 1 banned paradoxes and the treasures so it was effectively the no-legends meta.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>MUH SHITMON LEGENDARIES
Who cares? They're worthy sacrifices.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>shitmons
you'd have to define shitmons and contextualize in which generations
Gen 1 and 3 Articuno and Gen 3 Regirock aren't shitmons
8 months ago
Anonymous
>wrong
only one was: Z-Moves.
You are objectively wrong. >it was the introduction of Stealth Rock and its widespread distribution
even the existence / distribution of Toxic was worse than generational gimmicks.
I've ignored hazards because I think they're fine and aren't as bad as actual big generational gimmicks 6 and up. Don't know why you included those in as if I have a problem with pebbles. Nobody denys Toxic being on everything was a good thing either and equally should be addressed (which they thankfully did). >I think Dynamax was based, mechanically. Tera is rather dull.
Dynamax is garbage. Complaining about smoggies being against Tera yet praises Dynamax in the same breathe is being a massive hypocritical mongoloid. I'm sure spamming Max Airstream on a Charizard with Fly is so interestingly mechanically. Fricking GEEEEGGGG >there's nothing wrong whatsoever with Terastalization.
Judging by some of the bans so far that would've never happened in the first place, there's clearly something wrong. >you really are just a smogongay, that wants the game to be as limited and predictable as possible and spergs when he gets caught off-guard or outplayed because of something you failed to account for in the builder
The game is already diverse as is. Tera completely makes certain matchups unwinnable. Oh it's my fault for not account for 10+ types Volcarona can have pre-ban. How am I supposed to play around that besides relying on the surprise factor myself? It's counterintuitive to the tempo of the game.
Casualgay who likes dynamaxing is enough to not take you seriously anymore.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>You are objectively wrong.
nah >I've ignored hazards
then you missed how many mons had their viability tank because of Stealth Rock >Don't know why you included those in as if I have a problem with pebbles.
it had nothing to do with what you think, but your flippance toward it speaks volumes about your credibility >Complaining about smoggies being against Tera yet praises Dynamax in the same breathe
use your brain
being pro-generational gimmick, even and especially for the one I dislike (Z-moves), is consistent >I'm sure spamming Max Airstream on a Charizard with Fly is so interestingly mechanically
if that's what you'd want to do, you could do that
you had a lot of options >Judging by some of the bans so far that would've never happened in the first place
or maybe smogon just doesn't know anything about balance or adapting >The game is already diverse as is.
no it isn't, especially in the past several months >Tera completely makes certain matchups unwinnable
wrong and even if it was true, it means you built poorly, a you problem and skill issue >Oh it's my fault for not account for 10+ types Volcarona can have pre-ban
yes >How am I supposed to play around that besides relying on the surprise factor myself?
use your brain
I know that's hard as a smoggie but it's not impossible >Casualgay who likes dynamaxing >ban-happy smogongay calling anyone else a casual
8 months ago
Anonymous
Besides Regieleki, what Pokemon 100% would still be OU without Tera?
8 months ago
Anonymous
I don't buy the idea that most of OU's problems would be solved if they banned Tera. Most of the stuff they banned would still be outrageous even without it. >Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle are an example of perfect stats, types and moves for the job, they barely even need to run coverage to sweep a team. >Annihilape is basically the same and can virtually 6-0 entire team archetypes with Rage Punch and Drain Punch. >Espathra is a snowballing win con that even without Tera is basically only countered by Kingambit by virtue of its type. >Palafin is basically a cover legend with a trade off that doesn't hold it back at all. As if switching once is problem, especially on something with Flip Turn. >Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao's abilities make them glass cannons that put things like Deoxys-Attack to shame with good offensive types to boot. Chi-Yu in particular, like above examples, barely even needs coverage and even Chien-Pao gets by with just Sacred Sword >Baxcalibur is more debatable, but it's undoubtedly one of the best abusers of snow and veil, it sweeps, it wallbreaks, it can't be burned and its reasonably bulky to tank even supereffective hits, and it doesn't need Tera for any of that >Bloodmoon bypasses just about every weakness regular Ursaluna has. It doesn't need to burn itself, it has near perfect coverage with its ability and it can KO offensive threats with priority even without STAB. Blissey wasn't even a counter, it only stops the all out attacking sets. >Urshifu was fricking buffed this gen with Swords Dance, and Rapid Strike even got the new item that prevents contact damage. Both forms basically lost any major weakness they had
That leaves us with what, Regieleki and Volcarona?
(1/2)
you literally don't even know that blissey is the only counter. you never had the chance to find out. golem drops 2 tiers in gen 1, 20 years after the game comes out, but every strong pokémon today has to be b& a week after its introduced cause wah
Yeah, its almost like like GF is designing items and pokemon around doubles format and thats why singles is not working well as a 100% competitive mode or something.
Randoms on cart probably aren't very keen on running the best of the best mons they can run. You'd be lucky to come across someone with a team with thought put into it on cart due to how massive the pool of players is.
They need to admit that they're the problem. Meleetards eventually accepted that they will never ever be happy with anything that isn't Fox vs Falco on Final Destination, they stopped complaining about every new game and simply accepted playing their 20 year old game forever, and everyone ended up happier and more satisfied that way.
>Meleetards eventually accepted that they will never ever be happy with anything that isn't Fox vs Falco on Final Destination
t. Doesn't follow the game
yeah, I don't see what the problem in going back is. gen 4 is my favourite meta, personally, so I just go play that with friends when I get the itch.
I think it's honestly great how the gen 1 and 2 meta has developed in the last decade because of people actually playing them and accepting what they are.
>I think it's honestly great how the gen 1 and 2 meta has developed in the last decade because of people actually playing them and accepting what they are.
their OU's also, to my knowledge, have received zero meddling bans
Because the idea of what's considered bannable became something rare to something common. At this point the way Smogon wants to play the game does not match the game itself. The idea of perfect counters or Switch in is not in the mind of GF when they make new Pokémon.
in gen V the biggest thing people had a problem with was "why don't you just ban speedboost blaziken instead of banning blaziken entirely"
it's gone rapidly downhill starting with SM
Finch just needs to step back a lot. It's obvious that there are too few people representing too small slices of the meta. They should rotate out the "council members" more often.
Also the cringe as frick naming of them as a council and their attitudes should change too. Way too up their own asses.
Because Knock Off hurts like a b***h. >+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 226-267 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even the most physically defensive set from Corv eats absolute shit to Roaring Moon. At even just +1, Corv has a roughly 50% chance of dying to Knock Off into Tera Acrobatics.
>At even just +1, Corv has a roughly 50% chance of dying to Knock Off into Tera Acrobatics.
I looked at the calculations myself and that isn't true
you're probably assuming Stealth Rock is up
it can use Roost, and even Iron Defense
I see what you're saying, but it's still a check that can work as far as I am seeing
>smoshit banned ogerpon and bloodmoon ursaluna, two perfectly fine pokemon that can easily be countered >smoshit wants to ban even more
I HATE SMOGON
I HATE SMOGON
I HATE SMOGON
To vote on a ban you need to be good at the game and get a high ELO + win rate. You've gotta win something in the order of 15 - 20 games in a row with room for 1 loss.
You can't just let Flutter Mane run around because it keeps Iron Bundle and Palafin in check, and you can't keep those two around just because they keep nuke-fish in check, and you can't keep that around because it keeps Chien-Pao in check, and on and on. It's Game Freak's fault for making a generation so imbalanced.
And before you say they actually did balance anything, VGC is getting run over by Ogerpon and Flutter Mane. It's worse in no-ban land.
I agree they added a bunch of crazy op mons this gen but maybe we should have accepted this as the new power level for ou instead of this cycle of banning broken mons and then banning the broken mons they checked over and over. Banning tera might also help.
>You can't just let Flutter Mane run around because it keeps Iron Bundle and Palafin in check, and you can't keep those two around just because they keep nuke-fish in check, and you can't keep that around because it keeps Chien-Pao in check, and on and on
And why not exactly?
That doesn't sound nearly as bad as the current state of things- arbitrarily banning things until the meta looks like what a homosexual and his circlejerk wants it to look like.
The bans aren't arbitrary, and are in fact a good thing. You can still used the banned Pokemon in tiers more befitting their power level. If there needs to be 20+ bans before OU is in a good state, then that is fine. We don't want a repeat of Gen 5 OU after all.
Gen 5 OU is more unpopular than ever before even after all the bans that have already taken place, including gems, statpassing, arena trap, weather ability combinations, sleep, and so on
>tera x is problem >ban x >tera y is problem >ban y >tera r m g are problems >maybe ban them
I DUNNO MAYBE BAN TERA???????
as much as i like smogon this is getting fricking ridiculous now. tera just needs to go if it's still causing problems.
it's only going to get worse in dlc2 when more mons return and whatever broken legendaries they also add.
Nothing he said is wrong. I just don't think his targets are necessarily the right ones. Gholdengo and Kingambit are more pressing, then Roaring Moon follows up with #3. Realistically, those 3 + the following should all be banned in this order: >Iron Valiant >Walking Wake >Iron Moth >Ogerpon-W
If the meta is still shit after that, look into banning or limiting Tera and unbanning everything except for Chi-Yu, Palafin, Chien-Pao, and Ursaluna-BM.
Honestly,if tera gets banned most of those are not even a problem anymore, probably only ursaluna,espathra,flutter mane,palafin,bax and maybe bundle will stay ubers
Espathra is 100% only banworthy because of Tera. It's only got Psychic and Fairy type moves to attack with meaning Steel types hard counter to the thing if it can't Terastallize. It's also easier to clip its wings when it can't just change its type to get a free turn.
Banning Tera might just be the correct solution to fixing the meta. A lot of those Pokemon would solve current issues if they could just be allowed back into OU. The only remaining issue is Good as Gold completely warping the entire meta even if Gholdengo isn't used in a match. HDB are far and away the best item in the game right now because hazards are so over powered.
Yes, but the #1 Pokemon in the tier is Kingambit. Removing the Pokemon in the back is kind of difficult. You're basically playing a 5v5 with a weaker wincon than their wincon. Gholdengo is also an incredibly common Pokemon that can check non-Tera Espathra.
And Dynamax would be balanced if there was no HP bonus and Max Airstream capped at 80 power. But that's not how the game is set up.
But it does make me wonder if Tera is as contentious in lower tiers. Because a ban from OU means a ban from everything else.
It's pretty contentious in UU, but Gen 9 UU is full on stronger than Gen 8 OU. It's got Heatran, Skeledirge, Basculegion, Garganacl, Iron Treads, Iron Hands, Meowscarada, Ogerpon, Scrotom-Wash, Scizor, Tornadus-T, Weavile, Zapdos-G, and Volcanion. Throw in Tera and it becomes a huge problem.
RU and NU don't seem to have it as bad. Tera is a pretty good presence in NU AFAIK. UU and OU are definitely suffering from Tera being legal.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>It's pretty contentious in UU,
Is it? I'm not being facetious when I say that I haven't seen a whole lot of b***hing about it outside of a scant few examples, and I play the tier a whole lot myself
8 months ago
Anonymous
I've heard a lot of complaining about certain Pokemon with Tera (Heatran, Garganacl, Skeledirge). Perhaps that's more to do with OU giving UU its sloppy seconds, but there are some absurd Tera abusers in the tier.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Do you see any of the starters moving up from UU? I heard that they banned Quaquaval just because of knock-off and then brought it back down. It's hard to tell since, I noticed a shit ton of grass types dropping down in UU and Skeledirge being a beast in Uber yet is trash in OU. Do you think any of them have a chance to escape UU?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Meow is still really viable in OU since it can run at least 3 good sets
>But it does make me wonder if Tera is as contentious in lower tiers
As someone who plays a lot of UU I can say that the spiciest discourse got about it was people being sick of Tera Poison/Ghost Wo-Chien sitting on the entire tier a few months back, but it fell off pretty hard as the powerlevel started to increase. In more recent times Garganacl is causing controversy with it, but that's largely because it's, y'know, Garganacl.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I can't believe Garchomp, Ceruledge and Kommo-o got banned before Garganacl.
8 months ago
Anonymous
UU council are unironic stallgays
8 months ago
Anonymous
Don't remind me. Gen 7 UU made me play OU for the first time since Gen 5.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>offensive mons got banned before defensive mons by smogon
unbelievable
unheard of
historic moment
Smogon has banned a defensive mon from a tier for the first time since Mega-Sableye
8 months ago
Anonymous
defensive pokemon get banned in lower tiers all the time
8 months ago
Anonymous
nobody cares about lower tiers only OU and Ubers matters
8 months ago
Anonymous
A lot of people care about UU because of the insane power creep over the years
8 months ago
Anonymous
reminder that lily was responsible for that thing not getting banned the first time because they made 3 straight novels worth of posts about how its not actually broken and uu players are just dogshit only to end up voting to quick ban it the very next round
Screens ARE very good for it, but screens are good for tons of offensive threats like Roaring Moon or Iron Moth. I don't think Espathra is especially egregious with screens particularly because it can't harm Steel types and 2 of the best Pokemon in the format are Steel types.
>Screens ARE very good
Shame. Looks like we're gonna have to ban them.
8 months ago
Anonymous
They're only part of the problem with Gen 9. Really, it might just be easier to accept that Gen 9 is always going to be a shitshow on par with Gen 2 or Gen 5 and just let it rip. Just unban everything that isn't a box legendary (unban Zamazenta-C too) and let the tier go to hell in a handbasket. Maybe Gen 10 can be salvaged. Landorus-T will drop to UU and Gen 9 UU can just be the real format everyone plays.
8 months ago
Anonymous
The fact that Lando-T being in UU by the time the next DLC drops really is the sign of the end times for OU
8 months ago
Anonymous
Pic related is UU in DLC2 if Smogon decides to unban all of the moronic shit like Flutter Mane. Genesect might hold onto OU status, and Zygarde, Kyurem-B, and Lando-I will be solid mid-tier OU Pokemon. Kingambit will still be the #1 Pokemon in OU, and the format will be a game of rocket tag where no one has any fun.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Genesect might hold onto OU status
Probably not if tera sticks around, but it might be okay if not. It lost its setup and priority moves, and Download isn't very reliable.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Genesect has like a 90% chance to drop out of OU if Tera is allowed and Iron Bundle, Chi-Yu, Flutter Mane, Palafin, Espathra, Regieleki, and Annihilape come back.
8 months ago
Anonymous
At that point, the OU council should unironically consider allowing Mewtwo and Palkia into OU. They might actually be balanced.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Would Tera Lugia be too good for OU? That thing has been terrible for multiple gens now because of its typing and lack of offensive pressure, but has never been suspect tested.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It would tera poison calm mind and there would be no way of dealing with it
8 months ago
Anonymous
This is probably a bit more accurate. Only things from this I don't think would drop to UU at that point are Urshifu, Regieleki, and Volcarona.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I miss Melmetal
8 months ago
Anonymous
>on par with Gen 2
Gen 2 is a fine metagame as long as you're willing to use Snorlax. Gen 5 is definitely an apt comparison, though.
8 months ago
Anonymous
They unironically should be banned, or at least Aurora Veil/A-Ninetales. Being able to set up dual screens in a single turn on a fast Pokemon is ridiculous and helps facilitate these setup sweepers that can run away with games just as much as tera does.
Kingambit, Volcarona, Manaphy, Annihilape, all of Ogerpon would be way more manageable without Tera. Magearna, Urshifu, Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Palafin and Blood Moon are the only true broken shit that would remain broken regardless.
I keep saying this, there is no way of fixing this without another tier between OU and Ubers, you will keep banning shit and shit will keep taking its place ad infinitum
Ban the ogers and gargnacl is cancer again
Ban roaring moon? iron valiant is now even more cancer
there is no scape
Someone on Smogon already made a UUbers tier. It's not as great as you'd expect. Zacian dominates the tier, Magearna works as the generic bulky pivot, and Arceus is doing what it always does but with shittier plates.
To vote on a ban you need to be good at the game and get a high ELO + win rate. You've gotta win something in the order of 15 - 20 games in a row with room for 1 loss.
the thing is, gamefreak does not care at all for singles for the past 3 gens. Things like iron moth, iron valiant, kingambit, the ogers are not meant to played in singles, they are meant to used in doubles where things like follow me, friend guard, and doubling targeting are a thing
What is with this meme of Game Freak designing for anything? Stronger Pokemon are more manageable in doubles because you can target it with 2 Pokemon at a time. And even then, shit gets out of hand and you have >50% use rates on several Pokemon as seen by this weekend.
There is no conscious thought put into game design by Game Freak. It's all happenstance.
>Are smoggies actually good at pvp if they need all these bans and house rules to function?
Literally no.
This is also a Verlisify proposition by the way. He calls them casuals every time he makes a video about them.
>Verlisify
Does he even compete in vgc anymore? Has he ever made it out of round 1 of a Smogon tournament?
Gold should be considered for a ban just because of the defog interaction imo. Shame cuz I think he's a cool and versatile pokemon but it's clearly the defining feature of the meta game RN but oh well. UU is the real meta rn anyway
>Does he even compete in vgc anymore?
No, he basically thinks it sucks. He only plays Battle Spot Singles but he claims the game is dead in the west and it's just Japanese players. >Has he ever made it out of round 1 of a Smogon tournament?
I don't know if he's ever played in a Smoggie "tour"; I know I haven't, as I despise them. I only did room tournaments, of which I've won plenty, including over 20 and 30 men brackets.
Him not competing in official smogon tournaments means nothing when 90% of people don't and largely give little fricks about Smogon.
>I don't know if he's ever played in a Smoggie "tour"; I know I haven't, as I despise them. I only did room tournaments, of which I've won plenty, including over 20 and 30 men brackets. >Source: my ass >Him not competing in official smogon tournaments means nothing when 90% of people don't and largely give little fricks about Smogon
Yet a good chunk of this board is obsessed with seething about a "fanfic meta" that they could never succeed in lol
??? and? meta shifted, pokemon became viable, change is bad?
Nta but no one wants to frick around with having to bring a super specific pick for one Pokemon that's otherwise useless. Everytime this happens we go back to the "marshadow isn't broken just run this overly specific counter that does nothing against anything else" shit
>Nta but no one wants to frick around with having to bring a super specific pick for one Pokemon that's otherwise useless
how about if we gave it more than 5 minutes before we see if a pokémon is truly ubers worthy for once. literally there are still changes happening in gen 1 every now and again but in completely fresh modern gens we ban everything that looks funny.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Most bans in modern gens have been suspect tests. Even bans that didn't need to be suspect tests because everyone knew they were broken (eg: Ursaluna-BM with a 91% ban vote)
8 months ago
Anonymous
>the people that won in the fanfic meta decided what happened in the fanfic meta
i'm dreaming of a brand new meta. i don't care what happened in this one. it was fricked up from the beginning and everything that happens afterward is fricked up as a result.
quickbans should basically not be a thing. the entire meta should be ubers for a month or two when the gen comes out. you don't need to play """ou"""" the day the game comes out. it's not even ou at that point, it's made up bullshit. then they can slice off the top and work their way down. they're trying to fight powercreep in an asinine way. they desire to cuck everything with a high dps to control powercreep, which contradicts with the normal human impulse not to look like you're banning anything with a pulse. so the whole thing is fricked up, gay, chinese, and moronic.
this goes double in the gen 8 and 9 reality of big gimmicks that make the entire game turn on its head.
8 months ago
Anonymous
That's moronic. There is absolutely room for quickbans. OU can get a million games in a day or two at the start of the generation. There is absolutely enough data to show certain Pokemon are broken, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with banning broken Pokemon.
Most people wouldn't be against banning Mewtwo because they recognize Mewtwo is broken as frick. Then here comes Flutter Mane, which is de facto a better Mewtwo (it even cucks Mewtwo in UBERS), and people lose their minds that big mean Omgon 🙁 bans their broken horseshit. There is no reason for that shit to remain in the tier. No one likes playing against it, and it forces everyone who wants to win to use it. This is why bans exist. You can still use all of the banned Pokemon in a tier more befitting their power level.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Fairy/Ghost is a ridiculous STAB combination, and the only other Pokemon with that combo needs to rely on garbage physical attacks. Not to mention its Fire coverage.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Well yeah, that's pretty obvious. It has an absurd type, fantastic stats, a perfect move pool, and an amazing ability.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Just to be a pedant, its movepool is not quite perfect. If it had Focus Blast or Aura Sphere it would be.
8 months ago
Anonymous
There's Tera for that.
8 months ago
Anonymous
ban them slowly. let the meta settle for five seconds. you don't need to play "ou" on day 1. >i NEED to quickban mewtwo i NEED to i NEED to i NEED to ban things wah
literally why. yeah nobody will be surprised when it goes ubers but quickbans, and many bans in general, are now just an excuse to boot shit that changes anything at all about how the meta works.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>you don't need to play "ou" on day 1.
That's a completely asinine argument. Yeah, I don't need to play OU ever. I don't need to play Pokemon ever. No shit this is for leisure and not a job.
>literally why
Because it's fricking Mewtwo. Should we also have let Koraidon and Miraidon in OU at the start of the generation? What would that have solved?
8 months ago
Anonymous
>That's a completely asinine argument. Yeah, I don't need to play OU ever. I don't need to play Pokemon ever. No shit this is for leisure and not a job.
you've lost the plot on this one not gonna spell it out
>Because it's fricking Mewtwo
it will go to ubers and no one will be surprised. > Should we also have let Koraidon and Miraidon in OU at the start of the generation?
yes >What would that have solved?
autismos would have fewer tools to shape the meta to their moronic desires and things would level out naturally
8 months ago
Anonymous
>you've lost the plot on this one not gonna spell it out
No, your argument is just THAT moronic.
>it will go to ubers and no one will be surprised.
Exactly, and no one should be surprised when a Pokemon around Mewtwo's power level gets banned as well. I don't know why anyone is shocked when a Pokemon that outclasses Mewtwo in its own tier is too strong for OU.
>yes
Dumbest poster ITT
>autismos would have fewer tools to shape the meta to their moronic desires and things would level out naturally
There is no "desired" end goal. The council and the playerbase just wants broken Pokemon gone. If there needs to be dozens of bans before OU is in a good shape, so be it. That's Game Freak's fault not Smogon's.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>No, your argument is just THAT moronic.
no you didnt understand it fundamentally
>There is no "desired" end goal
yeah it's morons flailing about. they have tools they don't know how to use >The council
yuck! >and the playerbase
if youre playing at this point youre autistic too >broken Pokemon
*offensive pokémon
>If there needs to be dozens of bans before OU is in a good shape, so be it. That's Game Freak's fault not Smogon's.
it would literally be better if this gen's UU was last gen's OU than whatever the frick is going on now
8 months ago
Anonymous
>no you didnt understand it fundamentally
Wrong. Your fundamental argument is just that bad. "Well, you don't HAVE to ride the rollercoaster day one so you shouldn't care if people of a certain height get decapitated if they ride". Same fricking argument.
>yeah it's morons flailing about. they have tools they don't know how to use
This is also not an argument. Rather than "tools", you've given them fricking rocket launchers.
>*offensive pokémon
There aren't any broken defensive Pokemon this generation. Stall is dead.
>it would literally be better if this gen's UU was last gen's OU than whatever the frick is going on now
No it wouldn't.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Wrong. Your fundamental argument is just that bad. "Well, you don't HAVE to ride the rollercoaster day one so you shouldn't care if people of a certain height get decapitated if they ride". Same fricking argument.
that's not my argument so no
>This is also not an argument. Rather than "tools", you've given them fricking rocket launchers.
no? >There aren't any broken defensive Pokemon this generation. Stall is dead.
there was never a "broken" defensive pokemon because "broken" is de facto code for offensive. >No it wouldn't.
yeah it would
8 months ago
Anonymous
>there was never a "broken" defensive pokemon because "broken" is de facto code for offensive.
well said
all smoggie buzzwords are in fact casual autistic manchild cant
8 months ago
Anonymous
>that's not my argument so no
That IS your argument. Saying "You don't have to play OU on day 1" is the exact same argument.
>no?
Yes. You're giving them absurd tools that are obviously a step above the rest. Ubers exists for a reason. Play that tier instead of shitting up OU.
>there was never a "broken" defensive pokemon because "broken" is de facto code for offensive.
Mega Sableye?
Lugia?
Ho-oh?
Giratina?
Deoxys-D?
It's not Smogon's fault that there are so many more broken offensive Pokemon than defensive ones. Ubers is an incredibly offense-based meta and always has been. Why? Because Game Freak keeps creating broken offensive Pokemon more often than defensive ones.
8 months ago
Anonymous
you're illiterate
8 months ago
Anonymous
moronic strawman pic
8 months ago
Anonymous
Define strawman.
8 months ago
Anonymous
No, it's 100% a legitimate argument not a strawman. /vp/ unironically argues for things like Flutter Mane or Dracovish being legal in OU while arguing for things like Landorus-T or Great Tusk to be banned.
>Has he ever made it out of round 1 of a Smogon tournament?
Die homosexual for thinking this means anything. Nobody with a brain wants to play in fanfic metas like Smogon.
Manaphy isn't a huge problem. 100 speed is slow. The issue is entirely Gholdengo stopping you from getting rid of Sticky Webs. Your Manaphy counter has to have HDB or you have to be able to get rid of hazards in front of Gholdengo. That means either you run Court Change and don't use hazards or screens of your own (a lot of people do this), or you run Mold Breaker Hawlucha.
Gholdengo has to go before more innocent sweepers get banned. Terastallization too.
>On a scale of 1-10, how enjoyable do you find the current metagame?
>On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?
>For the following OU Pokemon, rate how worthy of tiering action you feel these Pokemon or moves are in the current metagame. 1 indicates balanced, 3 indicates potentially banworthy, and 5 indicates banworthy
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Manaphy?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Roaring Moon?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gliscor?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Ogerpon-Wellspring?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Sneasler?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Kingambit?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gholdengo?
>Ban tera after new tera focused turtle legendary releases
kek. but understandable, dlc2 is not that far off now and having to redo all the tiers just before then would be a headache. after dlc2 is out they really should consider banning tera though
Gholdengo warps the entire metagame around it and Finch has it as a 2? A fricking 2?
Also >I think Gliscor is the most evil Pokémon in the tier right now
GEEEEEEEEEG get the frick out of town. What a fricking joke. I can't imagine playing modern OU with Finch stomping around like it's his own personal fiefdom.
>GF keeps releasing ridiculously powercrept mons and dex cutting >surprised there's more centralizing shit than ever that requires more bans to make a skillful meta
Counters existing isn't an argument for keeping a Pokemon in the tier when you HAVE to bring those counters to every single team
Gen 1 and Gen 2 OU are examples of the most shit metas to ever exist
Overcentralizing is a problem only in smogon because of they approach competitive, ie they want all pokemon to be viable.
In VGC, it's unironically a good thing if there are few mons head and shoulder above the rest, since it makes team building easier.
>we dindu nuffin
Oh really? How about the fact that you banned Ogerpon, a pokemon that a lot of people like?
Finchinator, you're a subhuman piece of shit, a disgusting tyrant who ban beloved pokemon and keep hated pokemon around because you play favorites. You want to ban fan favorites like Greninja while keeping hated pokemon like Landorus and Kangambit around.
Frick you Finchinator, frick everything you stand for you self-centered and worthless Garbodor. Someone get this scumbag's ass back to Gaza or Israel where it belongs.
Why do morons like you feel like you have the right to insult our intelligence with horrendous posts such as these? A Pokemon being popular is not an argument as to why it shouldn't be banned from a specific format.
there's already like 6000000 meme formats with ladders on showdown so i don't see why you can't have your No Tera OU fanfic meta listed and let the actual game be the main thing
This. I could kind of understand it when where was like one extreme outlier that needed to go, but they've got crazy trying to turn OU into a fanfic meta and forgotten what the purpose of the tiers is. If there's too much broken shit flying around in OU, then OU needs to be balanced around it. If they want to make "OU, except with the most powerful things gone", that's what UU is for.
You can't balance OU when there's broken shit flying around. Say you let everything in from Flutter Mane to Palafin, OU would turn into a Pokemon version of pre-hand-trap Yu-Gi-Oh where games are won on turn 1
The problem with Smogon is that they don't think like humans. They don't see pokemon as pokemon, they coldly see them as tools. They don't take the fans' feelings into consideration when they want to ban them. Smogon was coldhearted nonhumans when they banned fan favorites like Garchomp and Greninja, and they're still coldhearted nonhumans with how they treat pokemon.
It's not autism to look at virtual creatures are not see them as real. Quite the opposite in fact. It's mostly autists who get super attracted to and defensive of their virtual pets.
Pokemon is about bromons. The tens of millions of people, many many of them normalgays, who play the games and buy into the franchise absolutely do care about their mons like they would pets and friends.
I don't think you've ever interacted with the normalgays who keep Pokemon alive. They don't care about "muh bromons", that's exclusively an autist thing. Sure, they have Pokemon they like more than others, but they just want to play the monster training game and beat it. They almost never engage in repeat playthroughs, play the post game, or play competitively.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Sure, they have Pokemon they like more than others, but they just want to play the monster training game and beat it.
these aren't mutually exclusive at all and your point is pointless
>Make more broken Pokemon in a single generation than ever before >Remove and/or nerf most old Pokemon that could maybe handle them >Throw in a mechanic that the new Pokemon were designed to abuse
>Act shocked when more Pokemon than ever have to be banned to make a format playable
Brilliant
I've played my fair share of different singles and doubles formats and it just really seems like singles as a whole is just not as fun, I don't really understand why people prefer dozens of turns of autistic switching and meticulous repetitive stall to all the possible combos and dynamism brought by the higher lethality of doubles.
Literally don’t play OU. Play literally any other format other than OU. At the very least showdown has the decency of giving you options rather than locking 6v6 singles behind smogons moronic tiering system.
Open Team Sheet solves the problem but Smoggies can't accept it.
>Know what Tera your opponents are running so you can't be caught off guard >Know what moves your opponent has so you know what on your Team has to be preserved to stop the mega threats >EVs still remain a mystery so there's still the aspect of having of having to guess the proper spread or getting punished
We accepted Team Preview, we need to accept Open Team Sheet.
I've come around to Open Team Sheets even as a pre-team preview singles players
Smoggies would never do it however because their tournaments are founded upon cheesing wins by counter-teaming and surprising the opponent with random shit in Best of 2's
>EVs still remain a mystery so there's still the aspect of having of having to guess the proper spread or getting punished
252/252/4 is much more common in singles. Knowing what item is being held easily identifies most spreads.
Also have a nice day for wanting to remove expert belt bluffs.
>Pokemon with a OU level of usage are not allowed to use Tera
The strong Pokemon can remain in OU and the weak Pokemon can hold onto the gimmick that can let them compete. A Pokemon can't remain OU if it relies entirely on Tera since the month it gets OU levels of usage it loses Tera and if it's tiering fluctuates because of it having or not having Tera then it simply added to a Tera Banlist
Take Tera away from Kingambit and it's no longer a problem, but weaker Pokemon shouldn't be punished for strong Pokemon being too good
people gave them too much shit for banning dynamax last gen but they were right to do so then and they would be right to ban tera now. generational gimmicks are bullshit, the only reason megas were somewhat workable is because there were so few of them.
I don't buy the idea that most of OU's problems would be solved if they banned Tera. Most of the stuff they banned would still be outrageous even without it. >Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle are an example of perfect stats, types and moves for the job, they barely even need to run coverage to sweep a team. >Annihilape is basically the same and can virtually 6-0 entire team archetypes with Rage Punch and Drain Punch. >Espathra is a snowballing win con that even without Tera is basically only countered by Kingambit by virtue of its type. >Palafin is basically a cover legend with a trade off that doesn't hold it back at all. As if switching once is problem, especially on something with Flip Turn. >Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao's abilities make them glass cannons that put things like Deoxys-Attack to shame with good offensive types to boot. Chi-Yu in particular, like above examples, barely even needs coverage and even Chien-Pao gets by with just Sacred Sword >Baxcalibur is more debatable, but it's undoubtedly one of the best abusers of snow and veil, it sweeps, it wallbreaks, it can't be burned and its reasonably bulky to tank even supereffective hits, and it doesn't need Tera for any of that >Bloodmoon bypasses just about every weakness regular Ursaluna has. It doesn't need to burn itself, it has near perfect coverage with its ability and it can KO offensive threats with priority even without STAB. Blissey wasn't even a counter, it only stops the all out attacking sets. >Urshifu was fricking buffed this gen with Swords Dance, and Rapid Strike even got the new item that prevents contact damage. Both forms basically lost any major weakness they had
That leaves us with what, Regieleki and Volcarona?
(1/2)
cont.
This isn't even addressing real problems unrelated to Tera, like screen setting becoming so braindead easy that offensive mons can set up with relative impunity (which accounts for several of the mons above being broken). All while hazard stacking is out of control from Gholdengo blocking the common forms of removal, seriously we went from people wanting Boots banned in gen 8 to Spikes Gliscor being the bane of Finch's life.
Shit, keep Tera but ban Gholdengo.
When did they ever do it? They are talking about their own format in their own battle simulator, yet people for some reason feel incredibly offended that smogon formed their own community with some separate rules.
They don't. Smogon is just incredibly popular and has a lot of support on other sites. Videos about Smogon and Smogon formats receive hundreds of thousands to millions of views on YouTube. The fan community mostly just accepted Smogon as official over a decade ago.
Smogon's population is only in the tens of thousands, so these million view videos are not just the entire Smogon forums watching these videos 100+ times.
>They don't. Smogon is just incredibly popular and has a lot of support on other sites. >posts thumbnails of misleading titles implying it's about a general "competitive" scene when it's all actually smogshit
they absolutely do act like their fanfic meta is official
if there was any actual alternative, smogon's """popularity""" would dwindle and fizzle
>posts thumbnails of misleading titles implying it's about a general "competitive" scene when it's all actually smogshit
You Game Freak bootlickers are ridiculous.
Whenever the mons have noteworthy VGC placements, they're also covered in the videos, for example the other day I found out Staraptor actually saw a fair bit of play in Gen 6 VGC
>They don't. Smogon is just incredibly popular and has a lot of support on other sites. >posts thumbnails of misleading titles implying it's about a general "competitive" scene when it's all actually smogshit
they absolutely do act like their fanfic meta is official
if there was any actual alternative, smogon's """popularity""" would dwindle and fizzle
Because the vast majority of people who play Pokemon are only familiar with 6 team singles, because that's how the main game is played.
So when they search for a pokemon's competitive history out of curiosity, they're more likely to be exposed to Smogon's concepts because who the frick would think to wonder about how a good a pokemon is in a doubles format with a limited team?
Smogon ironically looks more official than the official meta. And this is Game Freak's own fault because they have downplaying double battles in the games instead of better introducing people to the formats they're expected to play online with.
I'm ok with how smogon handles things even if I don't share their opinions on every ban and unban. However, finchinator is such a moronic dictator homosexual. Imagine a literal mentally moronic potato with the buttons sending the nukes, that's him. The council is sucking his wiener since he runs the shit with his money probably, and would expel anyone daring to oppose him.
His battling skills? Middling, washed. Plus, in pokemon jeopardy by youtuber Chimpact, he played twice and didn't even score positive half the times, always finishing last. It was a sight to see, the slow moron couldn't guess one right and stayed silent most of the game, too sluggish to buzz in and to answer correctly. At that point I realised that such an individual could not have an IQ higher than 95, and shouldn't be allowed to play such a huge role in the community. He's potato Hitler, but also an inbred somehow
didnt ask
>discord
>posted 8 times in 2 days
Give it a rest, anon.
never
DESTROY SMOGON
SEND SHOWDOWN TO THE GRAVE
BURN IT ALL DOWN
>we need more bans...I just don't know what yet
How the frick does anybody take this person or format seriously?
Because Finchinator is not a single bit different from the average person who becomes a Smogon devotee.
Please let that sink in. Every Smogonite is exactly like this. The organization exists and always has for this exact kind of person with this exact mentality and thought process. This is what it's for and this is how they are down to the core.
>I don't think any one ban solves it and I'm frustrated by that tbh
>I don't rly think we did anything wrong either
I literally laughed out loud
The nose knows what people are saying.
to be fair modern gamefreak can't balance singles for shit so he is correct that what they did or didn't ban had no bearing on how things are now
Game Freak can't balance, period.
The problem with Smogon is the refusal to make balance changes themselves to be "cart accurate". This is despite the fact that they have freeze clause, sleep clause, and also allow event Pokemon despite how unrealistic it would be to get shit like Wish Chansey without hacking.
>and also allow event Pokemon despite how unrealistic it would be to get shit like Wish Chansey without hacking.
Well that's not a thing anymore.
i've been deving a spreadsheet about how i'd buff every mon using vanilla mechanics only, doubles focused. anyone wanna look and make suggestions? it's a big fricking mess right now though
tfd
I wish they'd be as honest as the melee autists are and admit that they want to play skarmbliss like it's 2003 forever.
Chansey was not available in 2003.
They have that, it's called Gen 3 OU. Unlike Gen 9 OU, it's actually good.
>smoshit banned ogerpon and bloodmoon ursaluna, two perfectly fine pokemon that can easily be countered
>smoshit wants to ban even more
I HATE SMOGON
I HATE SMOGON
I HATE SMOGON
Durr, its too offensive, sweaty. Real stall homies repreSENT!!!
>Higher effective attack than Zacian-C with higher BP moves
>Balanced
Not even VGCuck agree with you. Wolfie thinks Ogerpon is damn broken.
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 271-321 (67 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
>There are homies in Ganker that defend Pokemon stronger than Zacian without Truant or Hoopa-U tier flaws being OU.
Lol lmao.
And yet Smogon lets Kingambit run around!
Curious! It's as if Smogon are playing favorites and they happen to love Kingambit and hate the ogre!
It's fascinating how transparently and blatantly Smogon is letting favoritism play a role in what they ban and don't ban!
Kingambit is on the radar for being banned, moron.
The only reason why you wouldn't Tera Ogerpon Fire immediately is so you can use Mold Breaker against Flash Fire users on the opponent's team if they have them. Even if you don't Tera, Ogerpon still has an effective 154 Atk stat thanks to the masks providing a universal x1.2 boost to all attacks.
If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
Finch is saying he wants to ban tera because it blocks the "reliable switch in" meta and is basically having a shitfit because they can't Dynamax it this gen.
>If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
Which is best used on something with pre-nerf Intrepid Sword.
Tera Ogerpon really isn't the magical catch-all you think it is. We literally saw an example of it not being able to Tera due to the matchup against the opponent earlier today in Sacramento grands-it's extra breaking power wasn't worth giving up the defensive utility of another mon's Tera. Stop acting like a Pokemon being a Tera hog (or otherwise reliant on Tera to get the absolute most of it) isn't a detriment.
We don't give a shit about fanfic format. We're talking about real Pokemon (6v6 singles).
>If Ogrepon is terad it means you used a teamwide resource
The only Pokemon with a maybe more valuable tera is Kingambit, and Kingambit is just a wincon in the back anyways. If you Tera Ogerpon and remove the threats that would cause Kingambit to Tera, you don't have to save Tera for Kingambit.
>I don't think any one ban solves it and I'm frustrated by that
>I don't rly think we did anything wrong either
It's almost like Tera is the biggest offender to these YOU DUMB FRICKING SMOGBlack person. Ban the offending gimmick and I promise you a lot of these issues goes away overnight.
Also not sure where he's going with Gliscor. It's almost as if Gamefreak made a Pokemon that makes Hazard counterplay nonexistent and forces you to play moronic goose chases with mandatory boots on most item slots. Gliscor is a symptom to the problem, not an actual problem. You want Spikes Gliscor to be dealt with? Ban Ghold instead. It's really that easy.
Kingambit is essential to the meta game has plenty of counterplay. Get better at playing the fanfic meta you spoonfeeders.
>It's almost like Tera is the biggest offender to these YOU DUMB FRICKING SMOGBlack person. Ban the offending gimmick and I promise you a lot of these issues goes away overnight.
you don't want to play gen 9 pokémon
>you don't want to play gen 9 pokémon
correct, its shit
>you don't want to play a terrible OU meta game infested with poor banning decisions and overall reluctantly to address actual issues.
>Implying not playing Gen 9 is a bad thing
Yeah I rather play some tolerable metagames instead. Not the autism you huff all day, thank you very much.
who are you quoting
>"BAN TERA"
>"smogoBlack person"
you realize you're a smogoBlack person yourself, no?
Except the difference between Finch and your average SmogBlack person is that majority of them aren't as autistically stunned as Finch is. Do you honestly think he "didnt do anything wrong" when there's absolutely things going wrong right now?
Like are we not going to address Ghold? Are we still pretending Tera is healthy for the meta? I think it's absolutely baffling that Finch thinks Ghold is ok, but moans at the prospect of shit like Gliscor and Kingambit, two reasonably fine Pokemons, with the former being moreso a side effect to Ghold's warping of the meta game like I mentioned.
And many of these issues are due in part of Tera. He specifically points out Tera Poison Manaphy and Roaring Moon, not realizing the irony of what he's saying.
Anyways yes, most of us are smogBlack folk or larping to be against the fanfic meta but at least we realize how fricking bad this is getting. Gen 5 OU being preferred by some of the homosexuals in this thread speaks volumes of what's going on.
don't care didn't read
Tera survived two fricking votes, I'm surprised they still haven't at least changed it to Tera types on preview though
>the difference between Finch and your average SmogBlack person is that majority of them aren't as autistically stunned as Finch is
not even remotely true
>Do you honestly think he "didnt do anything wrong" when there's absolutely things going wrong right now?
I think he did nothing any other smogongay in his position wouldn't do, barring the fact he's a israelite
>Are we still pretending Tera is healthy for the meta?
being anti-generational gimmick is one of the surest signs of a smogongay
>Anyways yes, most of us are smogBlack folk
glad you're not pretending or deluded about it
>Gen 5 OU being preferred by some of the homosexuals in this thread
nobody's actually said that
>being anti-generational gimmick is one of the surest signs of a smogongay
Most of them are shit though. Generational gimmicks are the worst thing to happen to the competitive side of the series. Tera is no exception. The only thing we can both slightly agree on is that it's that Tera isn't as bad as Dyanmax was. But that's a low bar to reach. All it does is appeal to ADHD story only zoomers who want a reason to consume the latest game. It adds an extra layer to the game that is very unfun to deal with. Especially with stuff like how Z moves and Gen 5 gems were implemented (Though I wouldn't say Gen 5 gems are a regional gimmick, but they sorta function in the same territory anyways).
>nobody's actually said that
>I think he did nothing any other smogongay in his position wouldn't do, barring the fact he's a israelite
He has a terrible way to go about bans rn. And I think he's too much of a pussy to actually shape up the meta game, or at things settle down with meta adaptations before quick banning. He's a weak council leader and that is what is making OU rot to hell right now.
>Most of them are shit though
wrong
only one was: Z-Moves
>Generational gimmicks are the worst thing to happen to the competitive side of the series.
absolutely false
it was the introduction of Stealth Rock and its widespread distribution
even the existence / distribution of Toxic was worse than generational gimmicks
>Tera is no exception
it is
there's nothing wrong whatsoever with Terastalization
>The only thing we can both slightly agree on is that it's that Tera isn't as bad as Dyanmax was.
I think Dynamax was based, mechanically. Tera is rather dull.
>All it does is appeal to ADHD
you sound like a stallgay
>It adds an extra layer to the game that is very unfun to deal with
you really are just a smogongay, that wants the game to be as limited and predictable as possible and spergs when he gets caught off-guard or outplayed because of something you failed to account for in the builder
>Gen 5 gems were implemented
there was nothing wrong with Gems
they're fairer than Z-Moves
>
i really really do
you have no clue what he even meant
I'm pretty sure even VGC players hated Dynamax, they even started playing VGC without Dynamax, Spikemuth Cup, cause the meta was boring
>Spikemuth Cup
https://www.serebii.net/swordshield/onlinecompetitions/spikemuthcup.shtml
says it was a Singles format
so not VGC
That looks like an individual event, look up Spikemuth Cup on youtube, it was a format that was VGC without legendaries and Dyna, similar to how Little Cup is pokémon but with Level 5 mons that aren't evolved.
>without legendaries
literally all you need to fix all competitive pokemon formats overnight, not a single other change necessary
deranged
Yeah I'm sure getting rid of Articuno and Regirock is really gonna fix all the metas lol
as a consequence of everything else being prohibited, absolutely
So like in your diseased schizo brain does banning heatran somehow lower the power level of Pokemon like Blood Moon?
Legendaries already warp the tier around their presence such that you have to spread your team thin to account for them. With all of them gone, powerful non-legendary threats become easier to manage, not because of missing counterplay or whatever, but because you can now build your team in such a way to devote more resources to dealing with those kinds of threats, whereas before you maybe couldn't afford to run it else risk losing to the more common legendary threats.
As to the direct answer to your question, nobody can say how people will adapt to a current meta even 2 weeks from now, let alone in a hypothetical one like this
The best Pokemon currently in OU aren't even legendaries.
they banned 10 of them from OU already
Exactly my point.
It's an arbitrary distinction. You can achieve a similar effect by banning just the Paradoxes. Or just Pokemon past a certain BST. Or every Fairy or Steel type.
It would just turn OU into a bigger clown meta than it already is.
>the Paradoxes
those are minor legendaries
>It's an arbitrary distinction
no it isn't
legendaries are designed to be significantly stronger than most other mons
Such mental gymnastics to justify your moronic and highly arbitrary position. The in-game battle facilities don't even restrict legendaries beyond mythicals and the Pokemon that are purposefully statted to be exceptionally ahead of the pack. Has there even been a vgc rule set where ALL legends were banned? Do you get mad when you see npcs use legendaries in the battle facilities? (This last question is purely rhetorical, I can tell you don't actually play the games at anything beyond a casual level)
>Has there even been a vgc rule set where ALL legends were banned?
SV series 1 banned paradoxes and the treasures so it was effectively the no-legends meta.
>MUH SHITMON LEGENDARIES
Who cares? They're worthy sacrifices.
>shitmons
you'd have to define shitmons and contextualize in which generations
Gen 1 and 3 Articuno and Gen 3 Regirock aren't shitmons
>wrong
only one was: Z-Moves.
You are objectively wrong.
>it was the introduction of Stealth Rock and its widespread distribution
even the existence / distribution of Toxic was worse than generational gimmicks.
I've ignored hazards because I think they're fine and aren't as bad as actual big generational gimmicks 6 and up. Don't know why you included those in as if I have a problem with pebbles. Nobody denys Toxic being on everything was a good thing either and equally should be addressed (which they thankfully did).
>I think Dynamax was based, mechanically. Tera is rather dull.
Dynamax is garbage. Complaining about smoggies being against Tera yet praises Dynamax in the same breathe is being a massive hypocritical mongoloid. I'm sure spamming Max Airstream on a Charizard with Fly is so interestingly mechanically. Fricking GEEEEGGGG
>there's nothing wrong whatsoever with Terastalization.
Judging by some of the bans so far that would've never happened in the first place, there's clearly something wrong.
>you really are just a smogongay, that wants the game to be as limited and predictable as possible and spergs when he gets caught off-guard or outplayed because of something you failed to account for in the builder
The game is already diverse as is. Tera completely makes certain matchups unwinnable. Oh it's my fault for not account for 10+ types Volcarona can have pre-ban. How am I supposed to play around that besides relying on the surprise factor myself? It's counterintuitive to the tempo of the game.
Casualgay who likes dynamaxing is enough to not take you seriously anymore.
>You are objectively wrong.
nah
>I've ignored hazards
then you missed how many mons had their viability tank because of Stealth Rock
>Don't know why you included those in as if I have a problem with pebbles.
it had nothing to do with what you think, but your flippance toward it speaks volumes about your credibility
>Complaining about smoggies being against Tera yet praises Dynamax in the same breathe
use your brain
being pro-generational gimmick, even and especially for the one I dislike (Z-moves), is consistent
>I'm sure spamming Max Airstream on a Charizard with Fly is so interestingly mechanically
if that's what you'd want to do, you could do that
you had a lot of options
>Judging by some of the bans so far that would've never happened in the first place
or maybe smogon just doesn't know anything about balance or adapting
>The game is already diverse as is.
no it isn't, especially in the past several months
>Tera completely makes certain matchups unwinnable
wrong and even if it was true, it means you built poorly, a you problem and skill issue
>Oh it's my fault for not account for 10+ types Volcarona can have pre-ban
yes
>How am I supposed to play around that besides relying on the surprise factor myself?
use your brain
I know that's hard as a smoggie but it's not impossible
>Casualgay who likes dynamaxing
>ban-happy smogongay calling anyone else a casual
Besides Regieleki, what Pokemon 100% would still be OU without Tera?
>he hates the weather wars
Coal
>+1 ogre
>ogrepon is terad
Nice comparison moron
Ogerpon outdamages Zacian even after tera.
No it doesn't you moronic homosexual. Zacian steel tera in that scenario has a chance to one shot mew
+1 252 Atk Tera Steel Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 362-428 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 370-436 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Blissey was dragged all the way from NU to deal with Bloodmoon
And it wasn't even a true counter, it was a check at best
??? and? meta shifted, pokemon became viable, change is bad?
Blissey is useless otherwise
you literally don't even know that blissey is the only counter. you never had the chance to find out. golem drops 2 tiers in gen 1, 20 years after the game comes out, but every strong pokémon today has to be b& a week after its introduced cause wah
maybe because you're the one in charge of it you dumb Black person israelite zoomer homosexual
step down and take a holiday to gaza
Finchinator should go back to Israel and stay there.
>I don't think any one ban fixes it
Tera
This. The amount of cope Smogon has surrounding Tera is hilarious.
These morons find a new scapegoat for why they lost a game every single month
>waaaaaaaaaaah garchomp isn't ou anymore waaaaaaaaaaah
Keep crying homosexuals.
Don't care what he thinks, but I do agree Gen 9's meta game is pretty ass.
Is UU better rn? I was thinking about maybe getting back into non-randbats, but OU looks painfully unfun
Yeah, its almost like like GF is designing items and pokemon around doubles format and thats why singles is not working well as a 100% competitive mode or something.
Battle Stadium exists.
It's so weird that when I play randoms on-cart, none of this is an issue.
let the smoggies have their fanic candyland meta
Randoms on cart probably aren't very keen on running the best of the best mons they can run. You'd be lucky to come across someone with a team with thought put into it on cart due to how massive the pool of players is.
Black person you can play VGC or what you want on showdown, no one is forcing you to play OU metagames
>BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT
fanfic is such a goddamn joke.
was smogon always this bad and I was just too naive? because it feels like gen 7 broke them
Smogon was always like this, as early as the Garchomp ban in Generation 4.
You also can look at Gen 3 UUBL historically and see the exact same issues, which are all rooted in the essence of a Smoggie.
Smogon, was never, ever good.
They're at their worst this gen.
it just feels like they need to let go and start it all over with some new metrics
They need to admit that they're the problem. Meleetards eventually accepted that they will never ever be happy with anything that isn't Fox vs Falco on Final Destination, they stopped complaining about every new game and simply accepted playing their 20 year old game forever, and everyone ended up happier and more satisfied that way.
>Meleetards eventually accepted that they will never ever be happy with anything that isn't Fox vs Falco on Final Destination
t. Doesn't follow the game
yeah, I don't see what the problem in going back is. gen 4 is my favourite meta, personally, so I just go play that with friends when I get the itch.
I think it's honestly great how the gen 1 and 2 meta has developed in the last decade because of people actually playing them and accepting what they are.
>I think it's honestly great how the gen 1 and 2 meta has developed in the last decade because of people actually playing them and accepting what they are.
their OU's also, to my knowledge, have received zero meddling bans
You don’t play melee and it shows
That's probably for the best.
Seriously playing melee should be a huge red flag for any half decent human.
Because the idea of what's considered bannable became something rare to something common. At this point the way Smogon wants to play the game does not match the game itself. The idea of perfect counters or Switch in is not in the mind of GF when they make new Pokémon.
in gen V the biggest thing people had a problem with was "why don't you just ban speedboost blaziken instead of banning blaziken entirely"
it's gone rapidly downhill starting with SM
>I CANT ADAPT WE NEED TO HECKIN BAN EVERYTHING!!!
meanwhile someone won vgc today using fricking tyranitar and kommo-o without ogerpon
Finch just needs to step back a lot. It's obvious that there are too few people representing too small slices of the meta. They should rotate out the "council members" more often.
Also the cringe as frick naming of them as a council and their attitudes should change too. Way too up their own asses.
>a israelite relinquishing power
when jirachi awakens
Wait Finch is a israelite? That explains everything.
today i will remind them.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-582952
this is who runs your fanfic format, think about it anons.
holy shit
Finch is such a spineless cowardly homosexual
hate against israeli people has got to stop enough is enough
Cool it with the pro-semitic remarks.
Into the rotom-h u go
Maybe when they stop using white phosphorus on civilians we will
Though I mean Finch pretty much is doing that to OU
>that completely unnecessary Roost just because he knew Finch would delay the inevitable with an equally unnecessary Protect like a moron
Jesus frick he's such a shitter. How is he even allowed to have an opinion on the meta?
to be fair he got read like a book on the first 5 turns, what are you supposed to do after that?
make less obvious plays?
getting bodied this bad shouldn't be an option for the top smogon dog
how would you have played that game?
Unironically don't bring a team that gets 1v1'd one of the biggest meta threats of the game so far
since when is kyurem good?
Finch is a pedo
I'm not taking someone who types so femininely seriously
I don't understand why he doesn't mind kingambit at all.
Roaring moon gets sodmized by fairies like iron valiant. Enamorous. And clefable? Not to mention any half decent scarfer can revenge kill it?
Acrobatics tera flying, the only check is unaware dondozo
Forgot dondozo, you can run a meme unaware clefable but cant iron vlaiant just get a speed boost from booster energy and kill it?
>cant iron vlaiant just get a speed boost from booster energy
Yes but Roaring Moon also likely has a Dragon Dance set up.
what's wrong with Corviknight
why not treat it like Gen III Skarmory vs Salamence
Because Knock Off hurts like a b***h.
>+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 226-267 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even the most physically defensive set from Corv eats absolute shit to Roaring Moon. At even just +1, Corv has a roughly 50% chance of dying to Knock Off into Tera Acrobatics.
>At even just +1, Corv has a roughly 50% chance of dying to Knock Off into Tera Acrobatics.
I looked at the calculations myself and that isn't true
you're probably assuming Stealth Rock is up
it can use Roost, and even Iron Defense
I see what you're saying, but it's still a check that can work as far as I am seeing
Corvi is trash in OU, completely owned by Gholdengo. It also doesn't really eat Roaring Moon hits well, especially not +1 Booster Energy Atk Knock.
corvi is shit, you only want to run it in pure stall and even then you invest in spdef to eat moonblasts
Roaring Moon is faster than Iron Valiant and Valiant is OHKO'd by Acrobatics
Just realised RM is faster, i swear valaint was faster because of how much it can frick me over
Just use a scarf meow and you easily deal at least with both moon and ogerpon
>t. 1100 ELO moron who thinks he knows how to play the game because his opponents run Pikachu and Lucario in OU
forgot reply
>fanfic numbers
>Smogon bans a bunch of Pokémon
>Now a Pokémon can't be checked
>"HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?"
You can't just let Flutter Mane run around because it keeps Iron Bundle and Palafin in check, and you can't keep those two around just because they keep nuke-fish in check, and you can't keep that around because it keeps Chien-Pao in check, and on and on. It's Game Freak's fault for making a generation so imbalanced.
And before you say they actually did balance anything, VGC is getting run over by Ogerpon and Flutter Mane. It's worse in no-ban land.
I agree they added a bunch of crazy op mons this gen but maybe we should have accepted this as the new power level for ou instead of this cycle of banning broken mons and then banning the broken mons they checked over and over. Banning tera might also help.
>You can't just let Flutter Mane run around because it keeps Iron Bundle and Palafin in check, and you can't keep those two around just because they keep nuke-fish in check, and you can't keep that around because it keeps Chien-Pao in check, and on and on
And why not exactly?
That doesn't sound nearly as bad as the current state of things- arbitrarily banning things until the meta looks like what a homosexual and his circlejerk wants it to look like.
>And why not exactly?
Because nothing can take hits from any of them.
The bans aren't arbitrary, and are in fact a good thing. You can still used the banned Pokemon in tiers more befitting their power level. If there needs to be 20+ bans before OU is in a good state, then that is fine. We don't want a repeat of Gen 5 OU after all.
Gen 5 OU is more unpopular than ever before even after all the bans that have already taken place, including gems, statpassing, arena trap, weather ability combinations, sleep, and so on
>We don't want a repeat of Gen 5 OU after all.
i really really do
Nothing that got banned checks anything else that got banned. Everything that got the boot is just a beatstick that nothing can take hits from.
>tera x is problem
>ban x
>tera y is problem
>ban y
>tera r m g are problems
>maybe ban them
I DUNNO MAYBE BAN TERA???????
as much as i like smogon this is getting fricking ridiculous now. tera just needs to go if it's still causing problems.
it's only going to get worse in dlc2 when more mons return and whatever broken legendaries they also add.
Nothing he said is wrong. I just don't think his targets are necessarily the right ones. Gholdengo and Kingambit are more pressing, then Roaring Moon follows up with #3. Realistically, those 3 + the following should all be banned in this order:
>Iron Valiant
>Walking Wake
>Iron Moth
>Ogerpon-W
If the meta is still shit after that, look into banning or limiting Tera and unbanning everything except for Chi-Yu, Palafin, Chien-Pao, and Ursaluna-BM.
Honestly,if tera gets banned most of those are not even a problem anymore, probably only ursaluna,espathra,flutter mane,palafin,bax and maybe bundle will stay ubers
Bundle's sole downside is that Hydro Pump has bad accuracy.
Espathra is 100% only banworthy because of Tera. It's only got Psychic and Fairy type moves to attack with meaning Steel types hard counter to the thing if it can't Terastallize. It's also easier to clip its wings when it can't just change its type to get a free turn.
Banning Tera might just be the correct solution to fixing the meta. A lot of those Pokemon would solve current issues if they could just be allowed back into OU. The only remaining issue is Good as Gold completely warping the entire meta even if Gholdengo isn't used in a match. HDB are far and away the best item in the game right now because hazards are so over powered.
Espathra is still going to be dumb without tera. Remove steels and darks first and you win.
Yes, but the #1 Pokemon in the tier is Kingambit. Removing the Pokemon in the back is kind of difficult. You're basically playing a 5v5 with a weaker wincon than their wincon. Gholdengo is also an incredibly common Pokemon that can check non-Tera Espathra.
Tera would be balanced with the same type adaptability boost and if the mon lost its old stabs upon using tera
And Dynamax would be balanced if there was no HP bonus and Max Airstream capped at 80 power. But that's not how the game is set up.
But it does make me wonder if Tera is as contentious in lower tiers. Because a ban from OU means a ban from everything else.
It's pretty contentious in UU, but Gen 9 UU is full on stronger than Gen 8 OU. It's got Heatran, Skeledirge, Basculegion, Garganacl, Iron Treads, Iron Hands, Meowscarada, Ogerpon, Scrotom-Wash, Scizor, Tornadus-T, Weavile, Zapdos-G, and Volcanion. Throw in Tera and it becomes a huge problem.
RU and NU don't seem to have it as bad. Tera is a pretty good presence in NU AFAIK. UU and OU are definitely suffering from Tera being legal.
>It's pretty contentious in UU,
Is it? I'm not being facetious when I say that I haven't seen a whole lot of b***hing about it outside of a scant few examples, and I play the tier a whole lot myself
I've heard a lot of complaining about certain Pokemon with Tera (Heatran, Garganacl, Skeledirge). Perhaps that's more to do with OU giving UU its sloppy seconds, but there are some absurd Tera abusers in the tier.
Do you see any of the starters moving up from UU? I heard that they banned Quaquaval just because of knock-off and then brought it back down. It's hard to tell since, I noticed a shit ton of grass types dropping down in UU and Skeledirge being a beast in Uber yet is trash in OU. Do you think any of them have a chance to escape UU?
Meow is still really viable in OU since it can run at least 3 good sets
>But it does make me wonder if Tera is as contentious in lower tiers
As someone who plays a lot of UU I can say that the spiciest discourse got about it was people being sick of Tera Poison/Ghost Wo-Chien sitting on the entire tier a few months back, but it fell off pretty hard as the powerlevel started to increase. In more recent times Garganacl is causing controversy with it, but that's largely because it's, y'know, Garganacl.
I can't believe Garchomp, Ceruledge and Kommo-o got banned before Garganacl.
UU council are unironic stallgays
Don't remind me. Gen 7 UU made me play OU for the first time since Gen 5.
>offensive mons got banned before defensive mons by smogon
unbelievable
unheard of
Well, Garganacl is banned from UU NOW.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/garganacl-is-banned-from-sv-uu.3729683/
historic moment
Smogon has banned a defensive mon from a tier for the first time since Mega-Sableye
defensive pokemon get banned in lower tiers all the time
nobody cares about lower tiers only OU and Ubers matters
A lot of people care about UU because of the insane power creep over the years
reminder that lily was responsible for that thing not getting banned the first time because they made 3 straight novels worth of posts about how its not actually broken and uu players are just dogshit only to end up voting to quick ban it the very next round
That sounds rather hilarious
with ninetales and veil coming back espathra probably wont return, like bax. it's too fricking broken behind screens.
Screens ARE very good for it, but screens are good for tons of offensive threats like Roaring Moon or Iron Moth. I don't think Espathra is especially egregious with screens particularly because it can't harm Steel types and 2 of the best Pokemon in the format are Steel types.
>Screens ARE very good
Shame. Looks like we're gonna have to ban them.
They're only part of the problem with Gen 9. Really, it might just be easier to accept that Gen 9 is always going to be a shitshow on par with Gen 2 or Gen 5 and just let it rip. Just unban everything that isn't a box legendary (unban Zamazenta-C too) and let the tier go to hell in a handbasket. Maybe Gen 10 can be salvaged. Landorus-T will drop to UU and Gen 9 UU can just be the real format everyone plays.
The fact that Lando-T being in UU by the time the next DLC drops really is the sign of the end times for OU
Pic related is UU in DLC2 if Smogon decides to unban all of the moronic shit like Flutter Mane. Genesect might hold onto OU status, and Zygarde, Kyurem-B, and Lando-I will be solid mid-tier OU Pokemon. Kingambit will still be the #1 Pokemon in OU, and the format will be a game of rocket tag where no one has any fun.
>Genesect might hold onto OU status
Probably not if tera sticks around, but it might be okay if not. It lost its setup and priority moves, and Download isn't very reliable.
Genesect has like a 90% chance to drop out of OU if Tera is allowed and Iron Bundle, Chi-Yu, Flutter Mane, Palafin, Espathra, Regieleki, and Annihilape come back.
At that point, the OU council should unironically consider allowing Mewtwo and Palkia into OU. They might actually be balanced.
Would Tera Lugia be too good for OU? That thing has been terrible for multiple gens now because of its typing and lack of offensive pressure, but has never been suspect tested.
It would tera poison calm mind and there would be no way of dealing with it
This is probably a bit more accurate. Only things from this I don't think would drop to UU at that point are Urshifu, Regieleki, and Volcarona.
I miss Melmetal
>on par with Gen 2
Gen 2 is a fine metagame as long as you're willing to use Snorlax. Gen 5 is definitely an apt comparison, though.
They unironically should be banned, or at least Aurora Veil/A-Ninetales. Being able to set up dual screens in a single turn on a fast Pokemon is ridiculous and helps facilitate these setup sweepers that can run away with games just as much as tera does.
I would just ban Light Clay
>it can't harm Steel types
The only steel mon it can't hurt is Gambit. Stored Power stops caring about type effectiveness after enough turns.
Kingambit, Volcarona, Manaphy, Annihilape, all of Ogerpon would be way more manageable without Tera. Magearna, Urshifu, Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Palafin and Blood Moon are the only true broken shit that would remain broken regardless.
Urshifu-R was on the weaker side in Gen 8. With all the power creep in Gen 9, it'd probably be fine in OU without Tera.
Don't forget Regieleki
Nah, shifu was completly shitting up the tier without even needing to tera.
And regi would obviously drop the second tera god banned
Smogon should finally add more complex bans. Allow Pokémon but ban certain Teras/Moves/Items from being used.
They're a fanfic meta, anyway.
I keep saying this, there is no way of fixing this without another tier between OU and Ubers, you will keep banning shit and shit will keep taking its place ad infinitum
Ban the ogers and gargnacl is cancer again
Ban roaring moon? iron valiant is now even more cancer
there is no scape
Someone on Smogon already made a UUbers tier. It's not as great as you'd expect. Zacian dominates the tier, Magearna works as the generic bulky pivot, and Arceus is doing what it always does but with shittier plates.
Are smoggies actually good at pvp if they need all these bans and house rules to function?
To vote on a ban you need to be good at the game and get a high ELO + win rate. You've gotta win something in the order of 15 - 20 games in a row with room for 1 loss.
the thing is, gamefreak does not care at all for singles for the past 3 gens. Things like iron moth, iron valiant, kingambit, the ogers are not meant to played in singles, they are meant to used in doubles where things like follow me, friend guard, and doubling targeting are a thing
What is with this meme of Game Freak designing for anything? Stronger Pokemon are more manageable in doubles because you can target it with 2 Pokemon at a time. And even then, shit gets out of hand and you have >50% use rates on several Pokemon as seen by this weekend.
There is no conscious thought put into game design by Game Freak. It's all happenstance.
Have they EVER cared for singles?
I retract my statement.
This.
Yes. GameFreak cared about singles in Gen III.
They do care about singles. What they don’t care about is the clown 6v6 format.
6v6 is the main format. Game Freak doesn't balance for any format, and it's time to get their boot out of your mouth.
3v3 is even worse than 6v6. It's pure matchup fishing. You may as well play randbats or 1v1 on Showdown, it's on the same level luck reliance.
>Are smoggies actually good at pvp if they need all these bans and house rules to function?
Literally no.
This is also a Verlisify proposition by the way. He calls them casuals every time he makes a video about them.
>Verlisify
Does he even compete in vgc anymore? Has he ever made it out of round 1 of a Smogon tournament?
Gold should be considered for a ban just because of the defog interaction imo. Shame cuz I think he's a cool and versatile pokemon but it's clearly the defining feature of the meta game RN but oh well. UU is the real meta rn anyway
Even if Verlisify doesn't compete, he's still a superior player than all these VGcucks and Smoggies.
So wait the official rules players and the singles fan community players are both cucks now? Does fricking dogs make you not a cuck?
true
>Does he even compete in vgc anymore?
No, he basically thinks it sucks. He only plays Battle Spot Singles but he claims the game is dead in the west and it's just Japanese players.
>Has he ever made it out of round 1 of a Smogon tournament?
I don't know if he's ever played in a Smoggie "tour"; I know I haven't, as I despise them. I only did room tournaments, of which I've won plenty, including over 20 and 30 men brackets.
Him not competing in official smogon tournaments means nothing when 90% of people don't and largely give little fricks about Smogon.
>I don't know if he's ever played in a Smoggie "tour"; I know I haven't, as I despise them. I only did room tournaments, of which I've won plenty, including over 20 and 30 men brackets.
>Source: my ass
>Him not competing in official smogon tournaments means nothing when 90% of people don't and largely give little fricks about Smogon
Yet a good chunk of this board is obsessed with seething about a "fanfic meta" that they could never succeed in lol
Nta but no one wants to frick around with having to bring a super specific pick for one Pokemon that's otherwise useless. Everytime this happens we go back to the "marshadow isn't broken just run this overly specific counter that does nothing against anything else" shit
>Nta but no one wants to frick around with having to bring a super specific pick for one Pokemon that's otherwise useless
how about if we gave it more than 5 minutes before we see if a pokémon is truly ubers worthy for once. literally there are still changes happening in gen 1 every now and again but in completely fresh modern gens we ban everything that looks funny.
Most bans in modern gens have been suspect tests. Even bans that didn't need to be suspect tests because everyone knew they were broken (eg: Ursaluna-BM with a 91% ban vote)
>the people that won in the fanfic meta decided what happened in the fanfic meta
i'm dreaming of a brand new meta. i don't care what happened in this one. it was fricked up from the beginning and everything that happens afterward is fricked up as a result.
quickbans should basically not be a thing. the entire meta should be ubers for a month or two when the gen comes out. you don't need to play """ou"""" the day the game comes out. it's not even ou at that point, it's made up bullshit. then they can slice off the top and work their way down. they're trying to fight powercreep in an asinine way. they desire to cuck everything with a high dps to control powercreep, which contradicts with the normal human impulse not to look like you're banning anything with a pulse. so the whole thing is fricked up, gay, chinese, and moronic.
this goes double in the gen 8 and 9 reality of big gimmicks that make the entire game turn on its head.
That's moronic. There is absolutely room for quickbans. OU can get a million games in a day or two at the start of the generation. There is absolutely enough data to show certain Pokemon are broken, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with banning broken Pokemon.
Most people wouldn't be against banning Mewtwo because they recognize Mewtwo is broken as frick. Then here comes Flutter Mane, which is de facto a better Mewtwo (it even cucks Mewtwo in UBERS), and people lose their minds that big mean Omgon 🙁 bans their broken horseshit. There is no reason for that shit to remain in the tier. No one likes playing against it, and it forces everyone who wants to win to use it. This is why bans exist. You can still use all of the banned Pokemon in a tier more befitting their power level.
Fairy/Ghost is a ridiculous STAB combination, and the only other Pokemon with that combo needs to rely on garbage physical attacks. Not to mention its Fire coverage.
Well yeah, that's pretty obvious. It has an absurd type, fantastic stats, a perfect move pool, and an amazing ability.
Just to be a pedant, its movepool is not quite perfect. If it had Focus Blast or Aura Sphere it would be.
There's Tera for that.
ban them slowly. let the meta settle for five seconds. you don't need to play "ou" on day 1.
>i NEED to quickban mewtwo i NEED to i NEED to i NEED to ban things wah
literally why. yeah nobody will be surprised when it goes ubers but quickbans, and many bans in general, are now just an excuse to boot shit that changes anything at all about how the meta works.
>you don't need to play "ou" on day 1.
That's a completely asinine argument. Yeah, I don't need to play OU ever. I don't need to play Pokemon ever. No shit this is for leisure and not a job.
>literally why
Because it's fricking Mewtwo. Should we also have let Koraidon and Miraidon in OU at the start of the generation? What would that have solved?
>That's a completely asinine argument. Yeah, I don't need to play OU ever. I don't need to play Pokemon ever. No shit this is for leisure and not a job.
you've lost the plot on this one not gonna spell it out
>Because it's fricking Mewtwo
it will go to ubers and no one will be surprised.
> Should we also have let Koraidon and Miraidon in OU at the start of the generation?
yes
>What would that have solved?
autismos would have fewer tools to shape the meta to their moronic desires and things would level out naturally
>you've lost the plot on this one not gonna spell it out
No, your argument is just THAT moronic.
>it will go to ubers and no one will be surprised.
Exactly, and no one should be surprised when a Pokemon around Mewtwo's power level gets banned as well. I don't know why anyone is shocked when a Pokemon that outclasses Mewtwo in its own tier is too strong for OU.
>yes
Dumbest poster ITT
>autismos would have fewer tools to shape the meta to their moronic desires and things would level out naturally
There is no "desired" end goal. The council and the playerbase just wants broken Pokemon gone. If there needs to be dozens of bans before OU is in a good shape, so be it. That's Game Freak's fault not Smogon's.
>No, your argument is just THAT moronic.
no you didnt understand it fundamentally
>There is no "desired" end goal
yeah it's morons flailing about. they have tools they don't know how to use
>The council
yuck!
>and the playerbase
if youre playing at this point youre autistic too
>broken Pokemon
*offensive pokémon
>If there needs to be dozens of bans before OU is in a good shape, so be it. That's Game Freak's fault not Smogon's.
it would literally be better if this gen's UU was last gen's OU than whatever the frick is going on now
>no you didnt understand it fundamentally
Wrong. Your fundamental argument is just that bad. "Well, you don't HAVE to ride the rollercoaster day one so you shouldn't care if people of a certain height get decapitated if they ride". Same fricking argument.
>yeah it's morons flailing about. they have tools they don't know how to use
This is also not an argument. Rather than "tools", you've given them fricking rocket launchers.
>*offensive pokémon
There aren't any broken defensive Pokemon this generation. Stall is dead.
>it would literally be better if this gen's UU was last gen's OU than whatever the frick is going on now
No it wouldn't.
>Wrong. Your fundamental argument is just that bad. "Well, you don't HAVE to ride the rollercoaster day one so you shouldn't care if people of a certain height get decapitated if they ride". Same fricking argument.
that's not my argument so no
>This is also not an argument. Rather than "tools", you've given them fricking rocket launchers.
no?
>There aren't any broken defensive Pokemon this generation. Stall is dead.
there was never a "broken" defensive pokemon because "broken" is de facto code for offensive.
>No it wouldn't.
yeah it would
>there was never a "broken" defensive pokemon because "broken" is de facto code for offensive.
well said
all smoggie buzzwords are in fact casual autistic manchild cant
>that's not my argument so no
That IS your argument. Saying "You don't have to play OU on day 1" is the exact same argument.
>no?
Yes. You're giving them absurd tools that are obviously a step above the rest. Ubers exists for a reason. Play that tier instead of shitting up OU.
>there was never a "broken" defensive pokemon because "broken" is de facto code for offensive.
Mega Sableye?
Lugia?
Ho-oh?
Giratina?
Deoxys-D?
It's not Smogon's fault that there are so many more broken offensive Pokemon than defensive ones. Ubers is an incredibly offense-based meta and always has been. Why? Because Game Freak keeps creating broken offensive Pokemon more often than defensive ones.
you're illiterate
moronic strawman pic
Define strawman.
No, it's 100% a legitimate argument not a strawman. /vp/ unironically argues for things like Flutter Mane or Dracovish being legal in OU while arguing for things like Landorus-T or Great Tusk to be banned.
So you want me to prove I've won roomtours.
>Has he ever made it out of round 1 of a Smogon tournament?
Die homosexual for thinking this means anything. Nobody with a brain wants to play in fanfic metas like Smogon.
Are you actually good at the game if you need shit like evasion or broken Pokemon to function?
Why can't you play around them?
They're in the game, along with their counterplay.
Based.
They should remove all clauses and let the problem self correct.
Metagame can't get any worse.
Just play AG, dumbass.
I don't enjoy every team having Miraidon, Zacian, and other legendaries, moron.
We can keep OU bans.
back in gen 6 I loved the idea of AG yet hated having to face legend spam teams
it was fun when I was just facing other guys with normal mons
>They should remove all clauses and let the problem self correct.
they can literally do that in old gens to good results
>are you actually good at the game if you play the game and not a fanfic version of it approved by a israelite
>He needs crutches to win games
banning the thing you can't beat is a crutch, yes
Manaphy isn't a huge problem. 100 speed is slow. The issue is entirely Gholdengo stopping you from getting rid of Sticky Webs. Your Manaphy counter has to have HDB or you have to be able to get rid of hazards in front of Gholdengo. That means either you run Court Change and don't use hazards or screens of your own (a lot of people do this), or you run Mold Breaker Hawlucha.
Gholdengo has to go before more innocent sweepers get banned. Terastallization too.
I love golden boy but I think you are correct, gholdengo is the big gatekeeper of offense as long as gholdengo exists we can't have a nice meta
What happened to Ting-Lu? I never see it anymore, but it hasn't fallen to UU yet.
Outclassed by Gliscor but still used on more defensive teams. It helped pushed Garchomp and Clodsire out of OU.
gliscor is just better for spike stacking
I don't know about smogon's history. how do council members get elected?
bros
get this
maybe pokémon fricking sucks ass as competitive game
you aren't allowed to say and be taken seriously this unless you can hit the nail on the head explanatorily
New tiering survey is up
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScxTmgVuJX_kapsW7QQunQai5yPhOS8hkPLnw_yQeZ7jnSDcg/viewform?usp=send_form
>On a scale of 1-10, how enjoyable do you find the current metagame?
>On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?
>For the following OU Pokemon, rate how worthy of tiering action you feel these Pokemon or moves are in the current metagame. 1 indicates balanced, 3 indicates potentially banworthy, and 5 indicates banworthy
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Manaphy?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Roaring Moon?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gliscor?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Ogerpon-Wellspring?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Sneasler?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Kingambit?
>On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gholdengo?
>Zero mention of tera
Why do they keep avoiding it? Come next gen when tera is gone, the tiering with all these mons is going to be completely whack
They’re waiting until after the second dlc
>Ban tera after new tera focused turtle legendary releases
kek. but understandable, dlc2 is not that far off now and having to redo all the tiers just before then would be a headache. after dlc2 is out they really should consider banning tera though
>why do they keep avoiding it
its survived two suspect tests by over 60% DNB votes
Gholdengo warps the entire metagame around it and Finch has it as a 2? A fricking 2?
Also
>I think Gliscor is the most evil Pokémon in the tier right now
GEEEEEEEEEG get the frick out of town. What a fricking joke. I can't imagine playing modern OU with Finch stomping around like it's his own personal fiefdom.
This homosexual is planning to destroy what little stallbreakers we have, Jesus frick
stall is dogshit, it's not 2016 anymore
Boy how wrong you are. Stall is still alive and well and more annoying than ever. If they keep suspecting hard hitters it's gonna get fat worse.
It is no coincidence that stallgays like Finchinator wants to ban every pokemon that counters stall.
>GF keeps releasing ridiculously powercrept mons and dex cutting
>surprised there's more centralizing shit than ever that requires more bans to make a skillful meta
Counters existing isn't an argument for keeping a Pokemon in the tier when you HAVE to bring those counters to every single team
Gen 1 and Gen 2 OU are examples of the most shit metas to ever exist
waaaah i can't believe the first 2 gens with the lowest amount of pokemon and no QoL have shit metas!!!
shut up homosexual
exactly why it shouldn't be happening over 20 years later with a huge roster and a ton of extra layers added
Overcentralizing is a problem only in smogon because of they approach competitive, ie they want all pokemon to be viable.
In VGC, it's unironically a good thing if there are few mons head and shoulder above the rest, since it makes team building easier.
VGC allowing shit like Zacian etc is enough to never consider that format
>Gen 1
>example of the most shit metas to ever exist
completely snd utterly wrong
Oh look, more cutting strong hitters for that healthy stall meta
I wonder how different the meta would be if they just banned Tera from the start.
>I don't think we did anything wrong
HAHAHAHHAAHAHAH
>we dindu nuffin
Oh really? How about the fact that you banned Ogerpon, a pokemon that a lot of people like?
Finchinator, you're a subhuman piece of shit, a disgusting tyrant who ban beloved pokemon and keep hated pokemon around because you play favorites. You want to ban fan favorites like Greninja while keeping hated pokemon like Landorus and Kangambit around.
Frick you Finchinator, frick everything you stand for you self-centered and worthless Garbodor. Someone get this scumbag's ass back to Gaza or Israel where it belongs.
Kingambit just had a vote and passed, moron.
Only the most broken form of Ogerpon was banned, the other three are still allowed
Why do morons like you feel like you have the right to insult our intelligence with horrendous posts such as these? A Pokemon being popular is not an argument as to why it shouldn't be banned from a specific format.
Nearly everything could be fixed by simply banning tera. Half a dozen pokemon could come off the banlist after it's gone.
then you don't want to play gen 9 pokémon.
>hurr if the gimmick doesn't exist it's not a new gen
Yeah, all the new Pokemon and moves don't count.
there's already like 6000000 meme formats with ladders on showdown so i don't see why you can't have your No Tera OU fanfic meta listed and let the actual game be the main thing
It should be illegal to ban any Pokemon for any reason.
This. I could kind of understand it when where was like one extreme outlier that needed to go, but they've got crazy trying to turn OU into a fanfic meta and forgotten what the purpose of the tiers is. If there's too much broken shit flying around in OU, then OU needs to be balanced around it. If they want to make "OU, except with the most powerful things gone", that's what UU is for.
You can't balance OU when there's broken shit flying around. Say you let everything in from Flutter Mane to Palafin, OU would turn into a Pokemon version of pre-hand-trap Yu-Gi-Oh where games are won on turn 1
There is a special place in hell for Finchinator, and it's called having to play against Funbro for all eternity.
The problem with Smogon is that they don't think like humans. They don't see pokemon as pokemon, they coldly see them as tools. They don't take the fans' feelings into consideration when they want to ban them. Smogon was coldhearted nonhumans when they banned fan favorites like Garchomp and Greninja, and they're still coldhearted nonhumans with how they treat pokemon.
Bro, that's just comp. When the genies of healthy meta were running the show, VGC players weren't using them because they were popular either.
It's because of their autism. It's true, however.
Pokemon ARE just lines of code you moron. Not everyone buys into Game Freak slop and wants to massage their Pokemon to raise affection.
sociopathic autism
It's not autism to look at virtual creatures are not see them as real. Quite the opposite in fact. It's mostly autists who get super attracted to and defensive of their virtual pets.
Then I'm proud to be autistic.
Glad we have that settled.
Pokemon is about bromons. The tens of millions of people, many many of them normalgays, who play the games and buy into the franchise absolutely do care about their mons like they would pets and friends.
I don't think you've ever interacted with the normalgays who keep Pokemon alive. They don't care about "muh bromons", that's exclusively an autist thing. Sure, they have Pokemon they like more than others, but they just want to play the monster training game and beat it. They almost never engage in repeat playthroughs, play the post game, or play competitively.
>Sure, they have Pokemon they like more than others, but they just want to play the monster training game and beat it.
these aren't mutually exclusive at all and your point is pointless
The least sociopathic smogongay
>Make more broken Pokemon in a single generation than ever before
>Remove and/or nerf most old Pokemon that could maybe handle them
>Throw in a mechanic that the new Pokemon were designed to abuse
>Act shocked when more Pokemon than ever have to be banned to make a format playable
Brilliant
I've played my fair share of different singles and doubles formats and it just really seems like singles as a whole is just not as fun, I don't really understand why people prefer dozens of turns of autistic switching and meticulous repetitive stall to all the possible combos and dynamism brought by the higher lethality of doubles.
It's more fun than losing turn 1 to a bad matchup.
>"broken" is de facto code for offensi-ACK
>pic unrelated
Literally don’t play OU. Play literally any other format other than OU. At the very least showdown has the decency of giving you options rather than locking 6v6 singles behind smogons moronic tiering system.
Open Team Sheet solves the problem but Smoggies can't accept it.
>Know what Tera your opponents are running so you can't be caught off guard
>Know what moves your opponent has so you know what on your Team has to be preserved to stop the mega threats
>EVs still remain a mystery so there's still the aspect of having of having to guess the proper spread or getting punished
We accepted Team Preview, we need to accept Open Team Sheet.
will never happen
I've come around to Open Team Sheets even as a pre-team preview singles players
Smoggies would never do it however because their tournaments are founded upon cheesing wins by counter-teaming and surprising the opponent with random shit in Best of 2's
>EVs still remain a mystery so there's still the aspect of having of having to guess the proper spread or getting punished
252/252/4 is much more common in singles. Knowing what item is being held easily identifies most spreads.
Also have a nice day for wanting to remove expert belt bluffs.
>Pokemon with a OU level of usage are not allowed to use Tera
The strong Pokemon can remain in OU and the weak Pokemon can hold onto the gimmick that can let them compete. A Pokemon can't remain OU if it relies entirely on Tera since the month it gets OU levels of usage it loses Tera and if it's tiering fluctuates because of it having or not having Tera then it simply added to a Tera Banlist
Take Tera away from Kingambit and it's no longer a problem, but weaker Pokemon shouldn't be punished for strong Pokemon being too good
people gave them too much shit for banning dynamax last gen but they were right to do so then and they would be right to ban tera now. generational gimmicks are bullshit, the only reason megas were somewhat workable is because there were so few of them.
You could also tier Megas separate from their base forms since they were tied to a held item (cept Fug)
that's what i'm saying. for all intents and purposes, a mega could be thought of as a separate pokemon entirely.
Well that and if a Mega was broken, you could just ban that Mega instead of banning the entire gimmick
Banning dynamax was never and will never be justified.
I don't buy the idea that most of OU's problems would be solved if they banned Tera. Most of the stuff they banned would still be outrageous even without it.
>Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle are an example of perfect stats, types and moves for the job, they barely even need to run coverage to sweep a team.
>Annihilape is basically the same and can virtually 6-0 entire team archetypes with Rage Punch and Drain Punch.
>Espathra is a snowballing win con that even without Tera is basically only countered by Kingambit by virtue of its type.
>Palafin is basically a cover legend with a trade off that doesn't hold it back at all. As if switching once is problem, especially on something with Flip Turn.
>Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao's abilities make them glass cannons that put things like Deoxys-Attack to shame with good offensive types to boot. Chi-Yu in particular, like above examples, barely even needs coverage and even Chien-Pao gets by with just Sacred Sword
>Baxcalibur is more debatable, but it's undoubtedly one of the best abusers of snow and veil, it sweeps, it wallbreaks, it can't be burned and its reasonably bulky to tank even supereffective hits, and it doesn't need Tera for any of that
>Bloodmoon bypasses just about every weakness regular Ursaluna has. It doesn't need to burn itself, it has near perfect coverage with its ability and it can KO offensive threats with priority even without STAB. Blissey wasn't even a counter, it only stops the all out attacking sets.
>Urshifu was fricking buffed this gen with Swords Dance, and Rapid Strike even got the new item that prevents contact damage. Both forms basically lost any major weakness they had
That leaves us with what, Regieleki and Volcarona?
(1/2)
cont.
This isn't even addressing real problems unrelated to Tera, like screen setting becoming so braindead easy that offensive mons can set up with relative impunity (which accounts for several of the mons above being broken). All while hazard stacking is out of control from Gholdengo blocking the common forms of removal, seriously we went from people wanting Boots banned in gen 8 to Spikes Gliscor being the bane of Finch's life.
Shit, keep Tera but ban Gholdengo.
I don't think that one anon who claims Annihilape & Espathra would be fine without tera plays the game very much.
First post on this board, but why do Smogon folk act like their fan project is official?
cuz autism
When did they ever do it? They are talking about their own format in their own battle simulator, yet people for some reason feel incredibly offended that smogon formed their own community with some separate rules.
They don't. Smogon is just incredibly popular and has a lot of support on other sites. Videos about Smogon and Smogon formats receive hundreds of thousands to millions of views on YouTube. The fan community mostly just accepted Smogon as official over a decade ago.
Smogon's population is only in the tens of thousands, so these million view videos are not just the entire Smogon forums watching these videos 100+ times.
>They don't. Smogon is just incredibly popular and has a lot of support on other sites.
>posts thumbnails of misleading titles implying it's about a general "competitive" scene when it's all actually smogshit
they absolutely do act like their fanfic meta is official
if there was any actual alternative, smogon's """popularity""" would dwindle and fizzle
>posts thumbnails of misleading titles implying it's about a general "competitive" scene when it's all actually smogshit
You Game Freak bootlickers are ridiculous.
Whenever the mons have noteworthy VGC placements, they're also covered in the videos, for example the other day I found out Staraptor actually saw a fair bit of play in Gen 6 VGC
Because the vast majority of people who play Pokemon are only familiar with 6 team singles, because that's how the main game is played.
So when they search for a pokemon's competitive history out of curiosity, they're more likely to be exposed to Smogon's concepts because who the frick would think to wonder about how a good a pokemon is in a doubles format with a limited team?
Smogon ironically looks more official than the official meta. And this is Game Freak's own fault because they have downplaying double battles in the games instead of better introducing people to the formats they're expected to play online with.
Doubles is a meme format anyways. It's always been a meme format.
Why do mentally ill people like you have so much hate for an online pokemon battle simulator?
>make all new games double battles only
boom smogon is fixed
Smogon already has doubles. Nobody wants to play it.
Thye dont have a choice because they want the cart experience.
Smogon will just make a singles format for that generation whether Game Freak likes it or not. Doubles OU already exists. No one plays it.
Is it always the same autist crying about singles and smogon or its more than one?
>330 posts
>85 IPs
What do you think?
I'm ok with how smogon handles things even if I don't share their opinions on every ban and unban. However, finchinator is such a moronic dictator homosexual. Imagine a literal mentally moronic potato with the buttons sending the nukes, that's him. The council is sucking his wiener since he runs the shit with his money probably, and would expel anyone daring to oppose him.
His battling skills? Middling, washed. Plus, in pokemon jeopardy by youtuber Chimpact, he played twice and didn't even score positive half the times, always finishing last. It was a sight to see, the slow moron couldn't guess one right and stayed silent most of the game, too sluggish to buzz in and to answer correctly. At that point I realised that such an individual could not have an IQ higher than 95, and shouldn't be allowed to play such a huge role in the community. He's potato Hitler, but also an inbred somehow
Kingambit is still a get out of jail free card that rewards bad play