>first 3 games have min max system for the protagonist
>latter 3 abandon it completely
why?
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>first 3 games have min max system for the protagonist. >latter 3 abandon it completely
>first 3 games have min max system for the protagonist
>latter 3 abandon it completely
why?
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They changed from "You get to choose how the protagonist stats grow" to "You get to choose a persona that changes the stats of the protagonist (and the other party members have fixes personas)". Also, possibly causualization of the series.
Yeah, i can't see much reason besides casualizing the game, shame since that probably means it won't return.
Might not be due to casualization. It's possible they wanted to differentiate between Persona and SMT as much as possible. SMT 5 still has a min max system for the protagonist.
>I DONT LIKE IT THAT MAKES IT CASUAL
Distributing points with impunity is as fricking broken as it gets.
>Casualizing
>IS is the easiest game in the series and it's the PSP version which is even easier
What he's actually b***hing about is that they simplified some systems. morons don't understand the difference between casualizing and simplifying something.
Meant casualizing as in turning something more casual, not necessarily easier, but fair enough, i can see that i expressed myself in a bad way.
Do you have a good example of when something is casualized, but not considered simplified? I can't think of any good examples, genuinely curious.
Damn props for admitting that you expressed yourself in a bad way.
>Do you have a good example of when something is casualized, but not considered simplified?
Persona 4 to Persona 5 maybe? Arguably Persona 5 is several times more complex and has more stuff going on in it than Persona 4 in just about every single way but overall it's a mostly easier ad much more casual game.
What about 5 makes it more complex though with more going on? They're pretty similar at their core. You go into an imaginary world, kill a boss and unlock a character for each world. I guess you could argue the fact that your have to scout out the treasure and come back another day, but that's about the same as breaking the TV world into more then 1 day. Maybe mementos as another way to level in-between main worlds, but I really only did it to finish the quests.
I was talking about gameplay mechanics not story outlines
>possibly causualization of the series.
I love P5r and all but holy frick there are so many goddamn tools and techniques you can exploit to absolutely trivialize any encounter with even half an ass worth of effort.
>Baton passes even more OP in Royal.
>Follow up attacks.
>All out attacks.
>Showtime attacks.
>Technical hits from Nuke/Psych are insane.
>Personas have abilities now.
>Can easily get any persona to 99 stats.
>>Can easily get any persona to 99 stats.
It was never hard to do that in the NuSona games. Tedious? Perhaps.
I completed P3FES a few days ago with like 4 or 5 maxed out Personae. Farming Onyx israeliteels with the x2 item drop rate boost from Naganaki Shrine for a couple of hours is easy, and with favorable RNG you can walk back and forth between spots to respawn enemies quickly to speed things up.
It was shamelessly easier in P4G though, since its shuffle time shows you the cards and their effects straight up and you can keep chaining the "X more!" cards for extra rewards.
In P5 it becomes even easier, using a ability from the first confidant you can just waltz up to weaker enemies and kill them instantaneously (it says there is a chance of insta-kill, but when i played the game, it never actually failed)
have abilities now.
Are you saying personas having abilities was added in P5R, or P3+? Personas have had abilities for a while.
Pretty sure he's talking about traits, which are introduced in P5.
That makes more sense then.
>Personas have had abilities for a while.
No, they didn't. Before P5R they had skills, but not "abilities" as in "unique traits" ala Pokémon.
>possibly causualization
These complains sound really weirdo to me.
I remember both Persona 1 as well 2 Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment being absolute cakewalks.
It sure feels like you guys started with P3 which was hands down the hardest the of the Persona games and now are surprised that both 1&2 were in the same games journalist difficulty as P4 and 5.
In P1 the most annoying part was trying to keep the party on the same level since the experience wasnt split between the party and only the character that killed the enemy got the exp.
And then I vaguely remember grinding for those tarot-cards so you could level up your personas.
That said, good that you found some enjoyment in the older titles, I thought Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment had the best story while p1 had the best music and its fun to play p4 or p5 and truly feel like the games keep refining ideas and concepts from the earlier games or even the character interactions that in its rawest form were all there in p1.
I honestly hope P6 will have more of a grimier tone more similar to the first 3.
>I remember both Persona 1 as well 2 Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment being absolute cakewalks.
They are, yeah. SMT the series in general has a very weird reputation of being hard considering 95% of the series is actually about as easy as the typical FF game.
It's like people heard about 3's hardmode and tricked themselves into believe that was what every SMT game must be like. At least it makes it easy to find fake fans who don't know what they're talking about
Agreed.
>it's casual because you can't brick your save anymore
Only a fricking unironic asperger would think this.
Was P3 hard? The first one I played was P4 Golden, then went back and played P3 FES. I don't remember anything being hard. Maybe annoying since you couldn't control your party members and they'd do stupid shit sometimes.
Hard with RPGs is always somewhat subjective. I don't think it's ever really HARD HARD but if you played P3 on hard mode then early game can be a b***h in certain sections. P4 has the same thing in that regards (Golden actively nerfed Shadow Yukiko and Shadow Kanji) though P3 stays 'harder' longer.
the hardest thing about P3 (imo) is the AI
god knows how many times I'd have one of the frickers use something that'd get nulled or get charmed and heal the enemies
This stops happening if you level green hairs slink
>Was P3 hard?
Not particularly, but it's really the only Persona where death is a possibility against some Tarter Sauce bosses.
The only one I remember being really annoyed by was something that could only get hit with pierce. I ended up relying on Junpei using Torrent Shot and slowly chipping the boss down because I didn't have any other decent source of pierce. That was 14 years ago though.
>I remember both Persona 1 as well 2 Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment being absolute cakewalks.
they are, the problem is that you have to grind cards to get the OP personas but at the end they really don't matter
the only enemy that can give you a headache are the metal copies in 2 and that's because you can't just steam roll them with group spells
P1ISP is a cakewalk, but the other two, along with IS's original PS1 release, do actually put up a fight with several level spikes that forced you to grind (not great design, but at least they're trying).
Yeah you just spam gravity, I think my MC was like lvl 60 and everyone else was super low due to participation deciding exp
>p1 had the best music
Which one?
It is more an abandonment of the philosophical idea behind P1. The idea that we all wear masks, change who we are based on circumstance, and "knowing who you really are" (when you talk to Philomon), these all got scrapped. Now we have a super special main character, and truly one dimensional side characters. Only the main character gets multiple personas, despite being a mute insert character, and everyone with their own personality gets a single persona.
Does is really matter in JRPGs? all it changes is if you pick "attack" or "magic" on the menu.
>Does is really matter in JRPGs?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssss
I'm more mad that they took our guns away
But you get guns back in P5.
but they're not real guns!
They were still in 3, just in a different context, were used by a single character in 4 and then back in 5. They were never 'taken away'
P5 brought them back, as well as negotiations.
Nice airsoft homosexual
Not a RPG. Trash game
Wrong board
Persona 3 decided to link your stats to your Persona. IMO this along with only making your MC able to change their persona was a very smart move for a couple of reasons
One: there's more than 4 or 5 characters in Persona 3-5 and you're supposed to be switching people in and out of your active party as needed instead of just having a static party like the early ones. So by making them 'prebuit' every character has strength and weaknesses to make them useful for certain situations.
Two: If you've played 1 and 2 you'll know that EVERYONE having changeable Personas was more than a little overwhelming. Plus the card system fricking sucks and anyone defending it as good was crap. Sure the skits were nice...the first time you saw them. Not the 50th.
Three: For story reasons they made the MC The Fool which became the starting point and basically capable of getting any persona he wanted. So tying his stats into that gives you a reason to care about your Personas beyond just what skills they have. It was pretty clear by the way it was set-up and stuff like the SL bonuses that their intent was to have you constantly switching your personas about.
>If you've played 1 and 2 you'll know that EVERYONE having changeable Personas was more than a little overwhelming.
Not really, just fuse whatever matches their arcana. Each character has several arcana to chose from, so you nearly always have options.
Not to mention, you ALWAYS end up fusing decent shit that you never fricking use in these games, you'd barely notice.
Well I remember being overwhelmed / mostly ignoring it the few times I tried to engage during a battle in 2. 1 wasn't as bad though for whatever reason.
I still think the collecting cards and shit part fricking sucked and I'm glad it was replaced with little mini-games or whatever. Though I didn't like that 4 Golden just gave you whatever you want even if I get that it just streamlines the whole thing for everyone
I miss all party members being allowed to change personas, this whole special snowflake wildcard MC shit is getting tiring.
>I miss all party members being allowed to change personas
It sucked actually and you ended up ignoring it most of the time because it was needlessly complex and required too much effort put into it when the game was easy enough that you didn't bother.
This kind of system is only good when the stats are balanced, which they're not. If Atlus can make a game where you can't survive without vitality, can't dodge or hit without agility, and couldn't crit/always got crit without luck, then I'd love this system back
bonus points if luck affects item drops
The minmax was technically not the game's doing, it was your own.
>gays claim their game is super duper hard and the series is so casualized now blah blah blah
>Game gets released in a format more people can actually play. Turns out they're just moronic contrarians trying to feel special
>N-no you see they actually NERFED the difficulty. The difficulty in the Japanese only version you have to emulate to play is actually way better h-heh.
Every time.
Shut the frick up idiot
SMT 3 in a nutshell