Not really in the mood to explain it all.
But games at a fundamental level, are an escape from the mundane and average life. Some anons on Ganker are autistic (NPCs) and unable to fathom that there's a richness to imagination that goes beyond what you directly touch, see and experience in everyday things, and that the extraordinary offers vastly more to play with.
It's why boring people watch dramas and telereality shows, and play realistic FPS, GTA or sports games.
>autistic (NPCs)
How can autistics be NPCs when they are literally incompatible with social programming? You're a super nega mega Black person homosexual
Just like realism isnt necessarily fun, going full irrealistic isnt necessarily fun either. Most people were annoyed at having to bhop to compete to the point bunnyhopping was just "required" so it stopped being a fun trick and more like something you just had to learn how to do and everyone around you was doing, at that point just get rid of it.
>it stopped being a fun trick and more like something you just had to learn how to do and everyone around you was doing
like... aiming? like positioning? like managing your team's economy? like learning nade setups?
>aiming? like positioning? like managing your team's economy? like learning nade setups?
All of that makes sense within the context of the game and isn't anywhere near as autistic as bunny hopping.
bhopping is gay and relied entirely on mapping your scroll wheel to jump. You can cope that they did it for realism but the real reason is nobody but hyper autists wanted to do that shit in regular games and it gave them an unfair advantage.
>it stopped being a fun trick and more like something you just had to learn how to do and everyone around you was doing
like... aiming? like positioning? like managing your team's economy? like learning nade setups?
How is doing something that is 100% skillbased and anyone can learn an 'unfair advantage'?
hey moron
you can still bunnyhop in counter strike
right now
yes, even in cs2
they just added a speed cap so you can't cross the entire map in 2 seconds
shut the frick up please
Fun is such a childish concept.
If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form, we as gamers must move past immature expectations like "fun".
Some of the greatest social commentary on the perils of late stage capitalism and the struggles of people of color in a white supremacist world are not exactly "fun" to experience, but they are incredibly important.
A serious art form strives for importance and to say something relevant to the sociopolitical realities of the day.
A game that says nothing of importance is effectively a toy for manchildren. Nobody will see fit to have something like the Festival de Cannes to showcase a bunch of embarrassing toys.
>Some of the greatest social commentary on the perils of late stage capitalism and the struggles of people of color in a white supremacist world
I can't even tell anymore, if that's a bait or we seriously got braindead fricktard here.
Okay. So why can't they be fun?
Again, I've seen plenty of art that's fun and full of deeper meaning. The two don't seem to be mutually exclusive, why do you think they are?
"Fun" in its current form is informed by the values built by a heteropatriarchal white supremacist society. So "fun" simply serves as an excuse to have elements of privilege in what could otherwise be expressions of rebellion against the hegemonic power structures of white supremacy and the patriarchy.
As a plainer example, most hetero cisgendered males would consider the sexual objectification of women "fun", but there are few things more regressive than that sort of "fun", and so when they use the word, they are referring to indulgence in the oppressive tendencies that late stage capitalism has socialized them into. In other words, "fun" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
That doesn't explain why things with deeper meaning can't be fun.
Please answer for question this time.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It does explain it very clearly.
You should read the last sentence more carefully if academic lingo is too advanced for you. I made sure to bring it down to layperson terms that even someone like you would understand.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It didn't.
Why can't you answer the question?
4 months ago
Anonymous
I see that reading is not your forte, so I will copypaste the sentence in question for your convenience: >In other words, "fun" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
Until you respond to this point with an actual argument, I will ignore any further expressions of your philistine nature.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>>In other words, "fun" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
That doesn't mean that things with deeper meaning can't be fun, why would it?
4 months ago
Anonymous
You're quite the dense little bumpkin aren't you?
A tool used by manchildren and incels to attack "deeper meaning" is effectively incompatible with "deeper meaning".
4 months ago
Anonymous
You still haven't answered my question.
It's almost like the two aren't mutually exclusive or something
4 months ago
Anonymous
I guess I was right. Art can be fun.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
4 months ago
Anonymous
Just repeating "answer the question" over and over to an already answered question until you get labelled as an imbecile and ignored doesn't mean you wont the argument.
4 months ago
Anonymous
No, but me being objectively correct means I won.
If I'm not, prove me wrong.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's funny that the only way morons like him can say art isn't fun or that fun can't be art is with incomprehensible and meaningless word salad. People that try to gate-keep art by removing the fun from it are ugly little soulless rodents who should be exterminated. The very first art was fricking cave paintings and you can bet your ass it was fun as frick. Don't ever let anyone tell you art can't be fun, or that something being fun makes it not art.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You can just google the words you don't understand, you know.
I might do you some good to educate yourself for a change.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not investing my time to learn your anti-intellectual doublespeak. Using a bunch of jargon does not make your point any more valid. Games can be both fun and art. You cannot disprove that statement without making up some bullshit and changing existing definitions. Try again.
4 months ago
Anonymous
"Deerper meaning" in its current form is informed by the values built by a heteropatriarchal white supremacist society. So "deeper meaning" simply serves as an excuse to have elements of privilege in what could otherwise be expressions of rebellion against the hegemonic power structures of white supremacy and the patriarchy. >As a plainer example, most hetero cisgendered males would consider the sexual objectification of women "meaningful", but there are few things more regressive than that sort of "meaning", and so when they use the word, they are referring to indulgence in the oppressive tendencies that late stage capitalism has socialized them into. In other words, "deeper meaning" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
>"Fun" in its current form is informed by the values built by a heteropatriarchal white supremacist society.
Ah yes, Mario jumping on Goombas. The white man's dream. Even though Mario is was developed by Nintendo, a Japanese company.
Or take Hollow Knight for example. A game about a bug thing, uh... killing other bug things and saving a kingdom of bug things. Yes, the white man's dream.
Or Sonic the Hedgehog. A hedgehog fighting an oppressive white man who controls an army of robots. White man's dream.
have a nice day, you rancid little parasite. Take your falsehoods and peddle them elsewhere.
There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin. And I'm not going to bother investing the effort to try, because it's plain as day that you're trolling and looking to rope someone in.
Not happening. Kindly frick off and take your un-fun with you.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Ah, ye olde tactic of cramming a short statement so full of utter bullshit it would take hours to debunk all of it.
It never fails.
Fun is good, enjoyable gameplay you moron. Are you saying a game that is enjoyable to play is "anti-progress" and "anti-art" (whatever that means lmfao)
*nods respectfully toward you*
Couldn't have said it better myself. There are so many manchildren stuck in their little ways due to being completely blinded by their white privilege to see the world how it really is.
I thought conservatives were opposed to suicide because it's a sin or something.
Oh but what am I saying, of course conservatives are total hypocrites.
>If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form
Why would I care about that? I'm not a fart sniffer from california. Games should be fun.
This but unironically.
Dear Esther, Gone Home and Firewatch all directly challenged the manbaby notion of what a game is supposed to be and they were all incredibly successful as a result.
Those "boring walking sims" were critically acclaimed and made shittons of money.
They were both critical and commercial successes, so no matter how much the existence of gay people makes you seethe, you have no way to spin those games as failures.
FIFA and NBA games make shit tons of money too, and they're the same game (literally) copy and pasted each year. Monetary success is not a metric of quality. Try again.
>Fun is such a childish concept. >If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form, we as gamers must move past immature expectations like "fun".
Paintings are a childish concept
If games are ever going to betaken seriously as an art form, we as art appreciators must move past immature expectations like "nice to look at"
Something being fun and something being a piece of art are not mutually exclusive you intellectually dishonest little weasel. Take your false dichotomy and shove it up your tight little homosexual ass.
you could still do game shit like fall from ten thousand feet in the air but there was also realism in the type that crashing makes you go through the windshield
In GTA V, if you run long enough you get a heart attack and die. I'm serious.
Can't wait for years and years of the same people who use that one Hitchwiener image spamming this over and over in these types of discussions thinking it makes a point for them!
Games are meant to be fun.
Art is meant to be either beautiful, meaningful, or both.
A game can be art, but if it isn't fun it isn't a good game, it's just good art.
His point was that the game reacting to the player's actions shouldn't be because it's realistic but because it make the world feel more alive for the player. His example is bullet hole decals.
>"...and with God as my witness I swear this to you: I will see Neil Druckmann hunted down like a dog in the streets and swinging from the nearest lamppost before the year is through"
Christ Gaben, take it easy
Even people who say they want realism in games don't actually want 100% realism, what they want is a translation of realism, an abstraction or appropriation that fits video games. For example people say they want realistic and believable open worlds, but nobody is saying they want traveling between 2 in-game cities to take 2 IRL hours of driving on the freeway, even though that's REALISM
Finally someone with a fricking working brain in this thread. This applies to video games too. It ultimately comes down to character writing, which "woke" "leftist" people can't do to save their lives. It's either all Marvel-tier quips, robotic dialogue or thinly disguised rants about real politics, both of which are jarring and break players' immersion.
>believability
Now that's the word my ESL brain can use to argument against those fricking morons who defend everything with "bro there is magic it's not supposed to be realistic".
I feel like realism is mostly effective in open-world games, since a world feeling real can make you really feel connected to it. It's all about finding the balance that works for you.
In all fairness, everyone was ignoring them, so they felt like their services and skills were being under utilized at Valve.
Valve already does a really good job at adding diversity to their games without making it cringe so i completely understand why everyone would choose to ignore them
Is he having fun committing false advertising and fraud?
Valve screwed over the Artifact fanbase by cancelling the Artifact 2.0 beta without even allowing users to invite friends like they said they would in January 2021 and does not deserve your financial support for these gross consumer-unfriendly practices.
New graphics on average is laggy, buggy, jank more times then not and people choose to play games more often then not to get away from the real world so why would they want the game to look like the real world? Older graphics games tend to run silky smooth and are easier to get immersed in.
Still making this thread?
Tell me, OP, have you ever once in your life had a single original thought?
You came from Reddit, didn't you?
Well there's no karma here for recycling. Sorry to disappoint you.
He's right. Realism is a cope for the npcs that have no imagination and are unable to have fun with a world that isn't exactly like real life.
elaborate
Not really in the mood to explain it all.
But games at a fundamental level, are an escape from the mundane and average life. Some anons on Ganker are autistic (NPCs) and unable to fathom that there's a richness to imagination that goes beyond what you directly touch, see and experience in everyday things, and that the extraordinary offers vastly more to play with.
It's why boring people watch dramas and telereality shows, and play realistic FPS, GTA or sports games.
>autistic (NPCs)
How can autistics be NPCs when they are literally incompatible with social programming? You're a super nega mega Black person homosexual
Yea? Then why do realistic games sells more
Minecraft has the most games sold of all time. Try again.
OP btfo. It's also a game not on steam
Hypocrite much? His company removed bhopping from Counter Strike and turned Half Life from a fast paced shooter into a slow, tedious VR game.
Just like realism isnt necessarily fun, going full irrealistic isnt necessarily fun either. Most people were annoyed at having to bhop to compete to the point bunnyhopping was just "required" so it stopped being a fun trick and more like something you just had to learn how to do and everyone around you was doing, at that point just get rid of it.
>it stopped being a fun trick and more like something you just had to learn how to do and everyone around you was doing
like... aiming? like positioning? like managing your team's economy? like learning nade setups?
>aiming? like positioning? like managing your team's economy? like learning nade setups?
All of that makes sense within the context of the game and isn't anywhere near as autistic as bunny hopping.
Yes, except all those were intended from the get go, bunnyhopping was basically a light exploit of the engine and eventually patched up.
bhopping is gay and relied entirely on mapping your scroll wheel to jump. You can cope that they did it for realism but the real reason is nobody but hyper autists wanted to do that shit in regular games and it gave them an unfair advantage.
How is doing something that is 100% skillbased and anyone can learn an 'unfair advantage'?
hey moron
you can still bunnyhop in counter strike
right now
yes, even in cs2
they just added a speed cap so you can't cross the entire map in 2 seconds
shut the frick up please
Fun is such a childish concept.
If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form, we as gamers must move past immature expectations like "fun".
Why? I've seen plenty of art that's fun.
Some of the greatest social commentary on the perils of late stage capitalism and the struggles of people of color in a white supremacist world are not exactly "fun" to experience, but they are incredibly important.
A serious art form strives for importance and to say something relevant to the sociopolitical realities of the day.
A game that says nothing of importance is effectively a toy for manchildren. Nobody will see fit to have something like the Festival de Cannes to showcase a bunch of embarrassing toys.
>Some of the greatest social commentary on the perils of late stage capitalism and the struggles of people of color in a white supremacist world
I can't even tell anymore, if that's a bait or we seriously got braindead fricktard here.
Probably a fricktard who thinks he's baiting by expressing his braindead opinion here instead of his usual site.
Okay. So why can't they be fun?
Again, I've seen plenty of art that's fun and full of deeper meaning. The two don't seem to be mutually exclusive, why do you think they are?
"Fun" in its current form is informed by the values built by a heteropatriarchal white supremacist society. So "fun" simply serves as an excuse to have elements of privilege in what could otherwise be expressions of rebellion against the hegemonic power structures of white supremacy and the patriarchy.
As a plainer example, most hetero cisgendered males would consider the sexual objectification of women "fun", but there are few things more regressive than that sort of "fun", and so when they use the word, they are referring to indulgence in the oppressive tendencies that late stage capitalism has socialized them into. In other words, "fun" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
That doesn't explain why things with deeper meaning can't be fun.
Please answer for question this time.
It does explain it very clearly.
You should read the last sentence more carefully if academic lingo is too advanced for you. I made sure to bring it down to layperson terms that even someone like you would understand.
It didn't.
Why can't you answer the question?
I see that reading is not your forte, so I will copypaste the sentence in question for your convenience:
>In other words, "fun" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
Until you respond to this point with an actual argument, I will ignore any further expressions of your philistine nature.
>>In other words, "fun" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
That doesn't mean that things with deeper meaning can't be fun, why would it?
You're quite the dense little bumpkin aren't you?
A tool used by manchildren and incels to attack "deeper meaning" is effectively incompatible with "deeper meaning".
You still haven't answered my question.
It's almost like the two aren't mutually exclusive or something
I guess I was right. Art can be fun.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Just repeating "answer the question" over and over to an already answered question until you get labelled as an imbecile and ignored doesn't mean you wont the argument.
No, but me being objectively correct means I won.
If I'm not, prove me wrong.
It's funny that the only way morons like him can say art isn't fun or that fun can't be art is with incomprehensible and meaningless word salad. People that try to gate-keep art by removing the fun from it are ugly little soulless rodents who should be exterminated. The very first art was fricking cave paintings and you can bet your ass it was fun as frick. Don't ever let anyone tell you art can't be fun, or that something being fun makes it not art.
You can just google the words you don't understand, you know.
I might do you some good to educate yourself for a change.
I'm not investing my time to learn your anti-intellectual doublespeak. Using a bunch of jargon does not make your point any more valid. Games can be both fun and art. You cannot disprove that statement without making up some bullshit and changing existing definitions. Try again.
"Deerper meaning" in its current form is informed by the values built by a heteropatriarchal white supremacist society. So "deeper meaning" simply serves as an excuse to have elements of privilege in what could otherwise be expressions of rebellion against the hegemonic power structures of white supremacy and the patriarchy.
>As a plainer example, most hetero cisgendered males would consider the sexual objectification of women "meaningful", but there are few things more regressive than that sort of "meaning", and so when they use the word, they are referring to indulgence in the oppressive tendencies that late stage capitalism has socialized them into. In other words, "deeper meaning" is a codeword and a dog whistle for anti-progress and anti-art.
>"Fun" in its current form is informed by the values built by a heteropatriarchal white supremacist society.
Ah yes, Mario jumping on Goombas. The white man's dream. Even though Mario is was developed by Nintendo, a Japanese company.
Or take Hollow Knight for example. A game about a bug thing, uh... killing other bug things and saving a kingdom of bug things. Yes, the white man's dream.
Or Sonic the Hedgehog. A hedgehog fighting an oppressive white man who controls an army of robots. White man's dream.
have a nice day, you rancid little parasite. Take your falsehoods and peddle them elsewhere.
There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin. And I'm not going to bother investing the effort to try, because it's plain as day that you're trolling and looking to rope someone in.
Not happening. Kindly frick off and take your un-fun with you.
Ah, ye olde tactic of cramming a short statement so full of utter bullshit it would take hours to debunk all of it.
It never fails.
Fun is good, enjoyable gameplay you moron. Are you saying a game that is enjoyable to play is "anti-progress" and "anti-art" (whatever that means lmfao)
*nods respectfully toward you*
Couldn't have said it better myself. There are so many manchildren stuck in their little ways due to being completely blinded by their white privilege to see the world how it really is.
theres a grave with your name on it. Hop in...
I thought conservatives were opposed to suicide because it's a sin or something.
Oh but what am I saying, of course conservatives are total hypocrites.
>White supremacist world
>Whites barely have any power
Good one
Games are products (ones with a price tag) first and foremost. Any artistic value that it may contain is secondary.
That depends on who makes it and why.
Or move on with your life and get a better hobby that doesn't involve sitting in a chair and staring at a screen.
>If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form
Why would I care about that? I'm not a fart sniffer from california. Games should be fun.
dumb gorilla
>to be taken seriously
this is how pseudointellectual clowns speak.
Taken seriously by who? Effete morons who'd pay $40 million for a blank piece of canvas.
Dear Esther is peak gaming apparently
This but unironically.
Dear Esther, Gone Home and Firewatch all directly challenged the manbaby notion of what a game is supposed to be and they were all incredibly successful as a result.
Boring walking sims about depression "successful"
Hipsters like em at least. I think that's what he means by "popular".
He didn't say popular. Be said "successful". All of those games were financial successes.
Those "boring walking sims" were critically acclaimed and made shittons of money.
They were both critical and commercial successes, so no matter how much the existence of gay people makes you seethe, you have no way to spin those games as failures.
FIFA and NBA games make shit tons of money too, and they're the same game (literally) copy and pasted each year. Monetary success is not a metric of quality. Try again.
Dear Esther is fun
for games to be art they must be shit?
no one ever told me this btw I had fun playing silent hill 4 despite all it's flaws
This is unironically what women think about games.
And now women are actively trying to remove any fun from games, it's truly over.
>Fun is such a childish concept.
>If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form, we as gamers must move past immature expectations like "fun".
THERE HE IS. GET HIM
Art is immature peepee drawing on a fabric
>art form
videos are not art and never will be
>being good at the game
>unfair advantage
game journalist detected
Paintings are a childish concept
If games are ever going to betaken seriously as an art form, we as art appreciators must move past immature expectations like "nice to look at"
Here's your (You) homosexual
Something being fun and something being a piece of art are not mutually exclusive you intellectually dishonest little weasel. Take your false dichotomy and shove it up your tight little homosexual ass.
this is bait, but I swear someone said it unironically somewhere
Niel Cuckmann, Ken Levine, Casey Hudson... too many buttholes to count. And they all say moronic shit like that.
t, Dr Cuckmann
Greetings Mr. Druckmann
Realism outside of sim games is a pure cancer.
i think movie realism like gta 4 enacted was fun!
you could still do game shit like fall from ten thousand feet in the air but there was also realism in the type that crashing makes you go through the windshield
In GTA V, if you run long enough you get a heart attack and die. I'm serious.
He's just mad at R*.
Most of all my music is playful and fun, but the message, if no explicit one is presented, is "None of you are gods, stop taking life so seriously."
DS2troonies, we fricking won! Validated by the fat democrat cashpig!
Can't wait for years and years of the same people who use that one Hitchwiener image spamming this over and over in these types of discussions thinking it makes a point for them!
Games are meant to be fun.
Art is meant to be either beautiful, meaningful, or both.
A game can be art, but if it isn't fun it isn't a good game, it's just good art.
His point was that the game reacting to the player's actions shouldn't be because it's realistic but because it make the world feel more alive for the player. His example is bullet hole decals.
>Fun is bad cause muh racism
Didn't know Neil Druckmann browsed Ganker
>"...and with God as my witness I swear this to you: I will see Neil Druckmann hunted down like a dog in the streets and swinging from the nearest lamppost before the year is through"
Christ Gaben, take it easy
It's weird that he says that when the only thing that made Half Life 2 memorable was the realistic physics for the time.
>Doesn't have a mechanic where Gordon has to periodically take a shit
ummm....yikes!
If it were up to Gabe alone the game probably would have ended up with that
the headcrab headhumps you into becoming a zombie so I think he was onto something
>pretend that your popular opinion is controversial and fuel it with false flagging shitposts
Even people who say they want realism in games don't actually want 100% realism, what they want is a translation of realism, an abstraction or appropriation that fits video games. For example people say they want realistic and believable open worlds, but nobody is saying they want traveling between 2 in-game cities to take 2 IRL hours of driving on the freeway, even though that's REALISM
Speak for yourself, i would gladly have a carbon copy of real life with save and load features
>Character has to sleep 8 hours a day
>You can't skip it
Sounds like a great game.
Sounds like a Sony 10/10 cinematic exclusive special edition
>hating on the dream/nightmare segments
those are the best part though
I was playing a third person game. I was just watching a dude sleep for 8 hours.
Your fault for not getting the lucid dreaming DLC
He is 100% correct. The best fiction writers in history focused on believability rather then realism. Gabe is very wise.
Finally someone with a fricking working brain in this thread. This applies to video games too. It ultimately comes down to character writing, which "woke" "leftist" people can't do to save their lives. It's either all Marvel-tier quips, robotic dialogue or thinly disguised rants about real politics, both of which are jarring and break players' immersion.
>believability
Now that's the word my ESL brain can use to argument against those fricking morons who defend everything with "bro there is magic it's not supposed to be realistic".
I feel like realism is mostly effective in open-world games, since a world feeling real can make you really feel connected to it. It's all about finding the balance that works for you.
He is making millions of dollars. You are posting on Ganker. Kys Black person.
I screamed at Jamaal Bradley who is lead animator he should feel lonely having no black co-workers but he said he didn't care...
DEI bros... This can't be...
In all fairness, everyone was ignoring them, so they felt like their services and skills were being under utilized at Valve.
Valve already does a really good job at adding diversity to their games without making it cringe so i completely understand why everyone would choose to ignore them
>outdated views
No?
Is he having fun committing false advertising and fraud?
Valve screwed over the Artifact fanbase by cancelling the Artifact 2.0 beta without even allowing users to invite friends like they said they would in January 2021 and does not deserve your financial support for these gross consumer-unfriendly practices.
wtf bros i can't believe heckin wholesome gaben said this...
Thanks gonna watch this interview now
This part is good.
Gaben speaks out against outsourcing Pajeets
?si=1r7EveZ4B5Ztzu7o&t=717
New graphics on average is laggy, buggy, jank more times then not and people choose to play games more often then not to get away from the real world so why would they want the game to look like the real world? Older graphics games tend to run silky smooth and are easier to get immersed in.
"Playing games for fun". My ass. I only play games to make fat, coke nosed suits richer. Get on MY level homosexual.
Truth. It's the entire reason why the Switch has mogged this entire console gen.
t. has been playing Splatoon all morning
Lmao bruv this old boomer is outdated af, future is fortnight and ultra realistic sim
Still making this thread?
Tell me, OP, have you ever once in your life had a single original thought?
You came from Reddit, didn't you?
Well there's no karma here for recycling. Sorry to disappoint you.