>gamers can't handle a simple trolley problem
Why are you guys like this? Joel did a fucked up but understandable thing. You don't have to make up headcanon to justify it.
>gamers can't handle a simple trolley problem
This phonograph "reads" a rock’s rough surface and transforms it into beautiful ambient music pic.twitter.com/PYDzYsWWf8
— Surreal Videos (@SurrealVideos) March 3, 2023
nobody cares, have a nice day
Bait thread. The mere concept of the trolley problem means that there is no right or wrong choice. And just like the trolley problem, the bystander pulled the lever so that he would stand the consequences.
Yes that's what the story was going for, but they floundered it at the end by making the firefly doctors too retarded. That's why people always say Joel was fully justified and the ending could have been stronger
My gf of 9 years said she would unwaveringly let Ellie die and it don’t sit right with me bros
>women are retarded and lack empathy
I wouldn't worry about it too much, anon
>women letting other cuter women die
no surprise here, she's a jealous cunt
She "feels".
She "feels" so she automatically accepts the absurdity of Fireflies creating a cure as inevitable.
Men come pick this apart a dozen ways from the operating room to power dynamics of possessing/distributing a cure.
Woman never thinks of or notices any details about any of this.
They are horribly equipped for rational thinking, judgement and decision making.
You can argue this the other way around. Them cutting her up is a nonzero chance at getting a cure vs a zero chance and the earth remaining a mushroom hellscape, even if it was unlikely the fireflies were equipped to create and distribute it. Joel let his fatherly feelings for Ellie drive him to shoot up a hospital to save her because he still mourned the death of his daughter at the start of the apocalypse. This game is feefee central no matter where you slice it.
Joel starts killing them in droves before even finding the recording that casts doubt onto the idea of actually creating a cure too, and can even miss it entirely so the angle that Joel was wholly and totally rational (lmao) during that bit is just outright wrong
People use the fact that you can get through most of the second game without killing anyone as proof that Ellie doesn't canonically go on a murder rampage to get to Abby, and while it's difficult you can sneak through the entire hospital segment in 1 without killing anyone until the surgeon
2 retcons that though, I shot the doc in the foot with like a handgun or arrow but the game just treats it like everyone stabbed the dude.
What I mean is you can sneak through the whole hospital without killing a single Firefly, and at the end where they've set up the guard position in front of the door to the operating room you can just throw a smoke bomb and sprint through without attacking them. You have to kill the surgeon but the game treats it as though you slaughtered all the Fireflies, when you actually don't have to
I know and I'm saying that if the game already retcons one death you think they aren't going to do the same? Tommy's reaction to hearing the story makes it seem like Joel went in and out guns blazing, and we're explicitly shown that canon Joel chose to do the more violent option to kill the doc.
Right, and my point was that people use the same argument to defend the second game because you don't technically have to kill very many people if you don't want to, and they say that means Ellie only canonically killed Nora, Justin or whatever his name was near the beginning, Owen, and Mel rather than going on the ultraviolent WLF murder spree that most players go on as her
People need to realize that gameplay is very typically not canon to the narrative. Joel canonically murdered his way through that hospital based on TLoU2 and TLoU2 also supports the fact that Ellie murdered her way to Abby because you see a ton of body bags in one scene that are implied to be all the people Ellie killed.
I thought the body bags were from Tommy, he got there before Ellie and Abbey sees those bags early in day 1 if memory serves, way before Ellie could've done too much damage.
Your gf sounds like a pragmatist. Absolutely based.
if she was pragmatic, she would've taken the fireflies incompetence into account
Where did you get a 9 year old gf?
>Refuse to painlessly euthanize someone for the sake of saving all of humanity
>Raiders kill you and rape her to death within the next week
Joel's a selfish idiot.
tits or gtfo
Your gf told me the opposite when I fucked her last night
Women are just children. If you told small children that they were full adults and created a million political and social systems for them to LARP as adults (but never told them it was all a LARP), then children would be running around like miniature versions of adults, oblivious to how silly they look, wearing suits and voting and saying things like we must vote for the lellow candidate, he will ensure we have pasghetti every night. It wouldn't even be fair to them, because children aren't equipped to know the difference between children and adults. They are too immature to know they're immature.
Sup Mohammed
sacrifice a child.... moral correction is needed....!
>get to safety
>need to destress
>anesthesia will still hold for a few hours
Hmmm...
This is now a Pikmin thread
The dillema is pretty much non-existent
Humanity is fucked up when the game is happening, there is no real infrastructure to speak of and everyone is at each other's throats fighting for territory and resources. If we removes the zombies the world would still be fucked up with little chance to recover, humanity just devastating itself futher in many resource wars.
Sacrifacing personal happiness for "common good" in this situation is retarded. World is a fuck, better protect those you care about.
>Humanity is fucked up when the game is happening, there is no real infrastructure to speak of and everyone is at each other's throats fighting for territory and resources. If we removes the zombies the world would still be fucked up with little chance to recover, humanity just devastating itself futher in many resource wars.
None of this even matters because it's not like Joel did a statistical analysis of the viability of a vaccine and weighed the options neutrally, he was a broken, jaded old man who'd seen the absolute worst of humanity and didn't believe the world was capable of or even deserved to be saved. He didn't give a shit about the vaccine, he just wanted Ellie. That's what made the ending so interesting and why people still talk about it
I think everyone with half a brain understands this. It's just that it's so poorly handled that a lot of people just got it backwards. I don't know if it was either incompetence or lack of confidence on their own story, but sprinkling details like the doctor barely being a 20-something med student when the outbreak happenned, or the fireflies treating Joel like a prisoner and outright thinking about murdering him or just leaving him to die unnecessarily push ideas that conflict with the overall idea of the game's ending.
>gamers can’t handle a trolley problem
Maybe if we were given the choice and not just given only one outcome and shown that it was the correct one no matter what.
>dude the vaccine would have saved EVERYONE
>sequel there are barely zombies and no one pays them any attention
>sequel there are barely zombies and no one pays them any attention
huh?
I fucking hated the plot zombies in 2
>literal hundreds of them show up out of nowhere in the middle of a blizzard
>chase the group to the cabin
>one of them throws a molotov over the fence and the massive swarm magically disappears
>an absolutely massive stampede of ramping zombies in the middle of a quiet valley far away from major population centers, in the DEAD MIDDLE of a severe winter that the prologue explicitly establishes has killed most infected in the area off by freezing them to death
huh?
the premise of a vaccine for a fungal infection is retarded, and in the setting it really seems like the zombie- sorry, "infected" are the least of anyone's problems
>mushroom zombies taking over the world
TLOU basically stole from pikmin
It's not about the headcanon. It's about Druckmann failing to figure out the logistics of his story and actually turn it into the proper trolley conundrum that he wanted. The game absolutely loathes itself for being a game, and is hilariously undone at the end by needing a climactic final level where you kill a bunch of dudes. So Joel is knocked out and Ellie is rushed to surgery and then Joel is then directly told what the Fireflies are planning to do.
A competent writer would have the Fireflies hide that information from Joel and treat him nicely while also keeping him away from Ellie to make sure he suspects as little as possible. Then Joel does a little digging or intuitively figures out what is actually going to happen while the Fireflies are still running tests. Maybe have him help defend the Firefly compound from clickers or raiders and he stumbles upon research notes.
Why didn't Joel just rape Abby?
No one on earth is horny enough to rape that thing
He should've did it for the good of mankind
If they really wanted Joel's decision to be "wrong, but understandable", all they had to do was hammer in that the Fireflies would 100% get the cure and use for it good. They didn't.
>78% antivaxxer incels
jesus fucking christ. you people sicken me.
He unironically did nothing wrong back when the game came out and this still rings true now.
>Basically TLOU
>trolley problem
lol fuck no, its a trolly problem if it was a bunch of crackheads with rotting medical equipment and zero medical resources telling you they "might" could save people if only you let them scoop out this 12 y/o girls brains, youd have to be retard to think it was a sound choice
>joel
>absolutely not doctor or surgeon
>figures out cordyceps is in the brain
>doctors and surgeons go through possibly dozens of immune, according to notes and audio logs
>not once thinking to check immune patient's brains
yeahhhh, they wouldve pureed her for nothing
How the fuck would a vaccine for an invasive fungus even work? Vaccines against viruses function by introducing a very weak, deactivated form of a virus into your body so it can very easily fight it off and your immune system develops antibodies, giving it a big advantage if you are infected later since your body can start effectively fighting it immediately. I don't think the human body has any natural counters to a fungus that grows on top of your brain after you inhale a spore or get one into your bloodstream from bodily fluids.
JUST TRUST THE SCIENCE GOYIM!
>Joel did a fucked up but understandable thing.
Bait thread indeed. He did nothing wrong.
What makes the whole question over what to do so fucked is that nobody asks Elly. If the situation was explained honestly to Elly, she may have chosen to sacrifice herself. Just wake her up and explain it to her.
The thing that makes this situation so fucked up is that both options are being decided for her. She's too important to both parties to have her fuck it up for them so they completely deny her any agency in this decision.
>an individual's "agency" matters more than potentially creating a cure for a rampant disease
I'm not even defending the Fireflies retardation here, but your argument is gay
That's not what I'm trying to highlight. What I'm saying is that Joel probably would not allow this to happen even if Elly consented to it.
If that was me i would use this situation to grope her ass a little bit
>terrorist organization
>failed multiple times
Joel did the best choice even if it means someone better can dissect Ellie later.
Oh gamers did handle it, for a while at least, before 2020 arrived, after that it turned into a complete utter shitshow of joelfags making up bullshit headcanons treated like facts because their daddy figure got to met up with the consequences of his actions
You mean 2020 was when a certain garden gnome started forcing his own retarded headcanon on everyone?
You mean killing someone who pulled a knife on him for trying to stop them from killing an unconscious 14 year old girl that they didn't even ask how she felt about the whole thing, who SECRETLY turned out to be the smartest most perfect and pure and altruistic man in the apocalypse who rescues pregnant zebras and has a coin collection and wuvs his daughter so so much and is the only brain surgeon left in the entire world?
the fact they had to change up the scenario and make things cleaner and sanitised the dialogue is proof cuckmanns a retard gay
This, the hospital in 1 is a dingy leaky moldy heap of shit with no sterile equipment or environments right next to a destroyed flooded highway infested with infected, and we're supposed to believe the clowns whose trail of dead idiot bodies we've been coming across over and over the whole game are totally going to develop a miracle cure there
A group's ability to fight people and zombies with guns is not indicative of an individual's ability to do a surgery.
No, but being a veterinarian who cannot open up a patient to look at their brain without expecting to kill them in the process is.
They're trying to do extremely delicate brain surgery in a crumbling ruin surrounded by infected on the only immune person in the world an hour after finding her unconscious and waterlogged in a cave
Eh the hospital being dirty is fine and expected but yeah putting Ellie on the table immediately is just a plot contrivance so we can have the dumb lie being even slightly believable.
As far as I remember opening her up won't kill her, removing the brain fungus would.
>but it grows all over the brain
>...it does...
>opening someone's brain up won't kill them
Are you a fucking retard or something?
Even with all the advantages of modern medicine and a full qualified team inside a modern hospital fully equipped and prepared for that type of procedure it's still a huge risk exposing someone's brain.
So you agree with me that opening someone's head won't necessarily kill them, thank you for agreeing with me. It means alot.
I'm very sure opening someone's skull and exposing their brain in a leaky moldy shitheap with questionably sterile implements won't cause a horrific fatal infection
If you want to get technical and say that the action of opening the brain won't kill them but their death is caused by a germ / bacteria that found itself on the brain due to a mysterious opening then yeah. In other news tsunamis don't kill, it's drowning that does it, therefore tsunamis are safe.
I was only replying because I thought the person I was replying to was ignorant of how dangerous any procedure involving the brain is. Clearly that is not the case and I have no desire to compete to see who is more pedantic.
Have fun arguing with
they seem to be interested.
>removing the brain fungus would.
then why would you fucking remove it? thanks for proving the fireflies are retarded.
>Why would you remove it
To make a cure with it? For someone eager to call things retarded you don't seem to bright yourself there
How would removing the fungus make a cure for the fungus? At best if you want a sample of the fungus (a fungus which is already readily available literally everywhere BTW) for some reason, you can take a small biopsy rather than killing the person.
>explain the mechanics of a vaccine for a fucking fungus
Lmao fuck off its fake made up science nonsense, and I've said numerous times in this thread that the urgency is a plot contrivance to force the conclusion. They didn't do the things that made sense because the things that make sense would ruin the already written conclusion, so they make the fireflies weirdly hasty for no reason and hope the emotion will distract the player from this obvious weirdness, and it worked mostly.
I mean the idea of a fungus spreading so rapidly that it becomes a pandemic that wrecks america basically overnight is retarded to begin with. Part of why I never liked TloU to begin with was such a dumbfuck premise taking itself so deathly seriously.
It's a zombie apocalypse, so it's fine. It's just an excuse for all the drama.
What pisses me off though is that all this has been meme'd to hell and back as something that rises above generic zombie shit and that the infection actually makes sense, and people actually believed it (twice, now).
>It's a zombie apocalypse, so it's fine. It's just an excuse for all the drama.
but the drama is always the most boring shit imaginable. It's literally always just
>hurr durr he we need to survive against these slow-ass zombies
and yet nobody has the common sense to just wear fabric they can't bite through or just fend them off with with long spears or pikes that can fuck them up without letting them get within biting distance.
>hurr durr and there are savage human raiders too!
It's always the same shit
Zombie shit only works with a serious setting if they're fast feral zombies and even then it's still pretty boring. Zombie shit works best with a level of cartoony camp like Resident Evil.
>these slow-ass zombies
Confirmed for never having played TLOU. Stopped reading after that
Idk if you live in America but the literal real C19 pandemic spread like wildfire in the states because so many people thought "it wont happen to me" or shit their pants because they had to do things like wear masks or stay inside. Some people literally went on news TV and said "fuck covid, I'm not cancelling my vacation for covid" and the states were overrun by it pretty quickly. So stuff like video game viruses spreading across the states easily is 100% plausible
>hey we finally have a living specimen with immunity to the fungus
>do we take blood samples and study her antibodies? no!
>do we take a small biopsy of her brain tissue around where the infection stopped? no!
>do we cut a chunk out of her brain so large that it will kill our one and only immune subject? yes!
the fireflies were fucking retards full stop.
I chalk that up to the writers forcing the ending they want, throwing logic out the window for the sake of the conclusion. Ellie cannot be awake while at the hospital, else the lie is exposed, but she needs to be in danger so Joel kills them and lies to cover it up.
That's one of the most annoying things, brain surgery requires weeks or months of extensive testing and preparation under the most ideal circumstances, but the Fireflies just dragged Ellie up to the operating table the second they found her while she still had water in her lungs
>game ends ambiguously
>letting the player decide for themselves who is right and wrong
>many people think Joel was right
>Neil angry about this and the fact he couldn’t make TLOU into a revenge quest and Joel a bad person
>he writes a sequel pushing out all ambiguity and makes Joel the bad guy
>creates Abby an unrealistically hateful revenge obsessed psycho and kid of the doctor Joel killed to save Ellie
>who is also a great guy who loves his daughter and helps animal and is a paragon of virtue
They should have just made the sequel focus on other people in the world. Joel and Ellie’s story had ended in the first game on a hopeful note. Making a sequel that brutally kills one of them and leaves the other a bitter, sad and alone for no reason is just awful.
How new are you in this site? back then there was a actually real debate about whether Joel was the "bad guy", and it's really funny how people think the sequel constantly tries to paint Joel as a monster when in Ellie's side of the story it's the complete opposite
>Original game made it clear the scientists were desperate and crazy, that their methods were sloppy and they were probably going to kill Ellie for nothing
>Sequel makes the scientists out to be saviors of humanity that were cruelly denied the cure by a crazy guy who kills them all
What happened?
The first game was from Joel's perspective and the second was not
More like the second game is from Druck(mann)s perspectice while the first game was not made by him
>le untrustworthy narrator
So in the 2nd game it's from Abby's perspective, a complete psychopath that can only think in absolutes.
Makes sense that her view of the whole operation would be one of a pristine top of the line clinic.
Then we remember this is a post-apocalyptic world.
I'll trust Joel's story.
This gets me the most of anything, the Fireflies were complete fucking punk jokers in the first game. The very first time we see them they're getting their asses fucking handed to them by the Boston military after bombing a checkpoint, then every place we're supposed to meet up with them afterward they're already fucking dead because they're such colossal fuckups that in one instance their entire operation was destroyed by literal chimps
Correct, the fireflies had a deal with Joel for resources which they refused to abide by and just threw him out.
The problem with the trolley problem is that the only sensible human choice is to save the one person you love most and let everyone else die. It's what all good parents would choose, what all good children would choose, what all good siblings would choose, what all good lovers would choose. It really highlights the stark contrasts between what normal people think and what deranged mindbroken liberal progressives think--they believe that you should sacrifice all your personal happiness, and all your family, and all other things you love for some meaningless and arbitrary "greater good" as designated by them. It's why chud kids hate their parents, and it's why liberal parents go schizo and indoctrinate their kids. No individual rights matter to these people, only the globalist anti-white collective matters.
Go outside anon
Have sex chudcel
Why is it always projection with you people.
Time to dilate, xir
>Sacrifice the daughter-figure you grew attached to to retards who want to kill their only immune test subject, and don't even know if they'll be successful in creating a vaccine.
He let them off easy.
>kill their only immune test subject
This part is even more ridiculous. If you have someone COMPLETELY immune to a deadly virus, wouldn't they be way more useful alive rather than dead? She could be sent to highly infected areas, she could be a super nurse, literally anything is better than what they wanted to do.
at the very least they could run several tests on her while she was still alive before killing her
but at least in the first game you find out that she wasn't the first immune person they killed trying to create a cure/vaccine.
That itself entirely justifies his actions
They don't even wait for her to wake up to talk to her about it, they find her out cold with Joel trying to get her breathing again and they just carry her directly up to the operating table
>The "Ellie wasn't the only inmune subject" fag appears
I'm really laughing my ass off at you retards buying shit straight out of r/thelastofus2 like this so easily, where are those recordings may i ask?
its literally said in the first game you fucking welfare moron
They cut it out of the remaster and the remake and I think it was even patched out of the original release a while after it came out, so a lot of people genuinely don't think it's real and it isn't even their fault
Proof now
>I think it was even patched out of the original release a while after it came out,
So I can just play the original without patching it and see that, what? Post it then.
Source joelfag? come on, if you are so sure about it then posted
The problem is super contrived, the only reason there is any conflict at all is because instead of just fucking waiting for Ellie to wake up to inform her on the consequences of getting operated on, they abducted an unconscious girl and immediately went to kill her before even telling her anything. What was even the urgency of getting her on the table?
>life of a friend
vs
>lives of literal whos
Only 4chin haxxors don't get it. The context of the fireflies and the world doesn't matter in the slightest. It's not a dilemma; it's a simple choice for a normally functioning human being.
>A theory,from MatPat(yes, I know), would suggest that Ellie is actually infected but with a strain of the same type of fungus that protects against the zombification fungus
I don't watch MattPat but that's not a theory, the recordings we find in the hospital explicitly mention that Ellie is infected but the fungus isn't affecting her the way it affects everyone else due to some mutation
The vaccine/Ellie stuff is bait. The actual rock-solid justification for Joel killing the Fireflies is because they reneged on their deal to give him much-needed supplies in exchange for safely transporting Ellie to them and basically said he was lucky they didn't shoot him on the spot, essentially saying he wasn't worth their bullets and to go off and die somewhere.
Whatever Joel's actual reasons for attacking them, this alone is enough reason for him to have done so and be morally in the right.
14 year olds can't consent to being killed for medical experimentation, anon, let alone unconscious ones.
Ellie did not consent to getting butchered for a possible cure. If she did say she was ok with it, then yeah you have a debate.
Why would anyone argue that Joel did not do the morally correct thing?
She even asks Joel like an hour earlier what the procedure is going to be like, and he says he doesn't know but they'll probably just take a blood sample or something. Neither of them had any idea she would have to die
the whole situation is retarded because if the fireflies didnt rush her into surgery they could have avoided it if joel got to talk to elley one last time because she would have told him she wanted to do it but joel also could have not been a mentally ill retard and mass murdered everyone for his surrogate daughter who ends up hating him anyway
>because she would have told him she wanted to do
Doesn't mean shit. A 14 year old can't consent to a lot of things and being medically killed is high on the list. They've waited two decades after the world ended, Ellie can hang out with Joel and his bro up north for 4 years till she can make the decision herself.
It wasn't fucked up. Not at all. It was the only morally right thing to do.
For those who doesn't watch or want to watch the series, here's a spoiler:
They remove all the notes and anything about past firefly experiments for the vaccine. They are pushing for vaccine being a real possible option.
My guess is for season 2 in Abby flash back, they will add more lines or change a lot of dialogues to imply that doctor only need Ellie brain because that's the very last ingredient for vaccine.
That's fine and all but assuming that even still they could have actually made a cure they still have no means of distributing or mass production of the cure. Unless the show also makes a point of displaying their capabilities in this regard
As long as they have Ellie still being unconscious the entire time they're still gonna lose hard. The viewing public is gonna be pissed.
>. They are pushing for vaccine being a real possible option.
didnt they originally confirmed in TLoU DLC that Fireflys were idiots?
They retconned it to pretend as if the fireflies weren’t complete dumbasses
You mean the notes that confirm they’d never found another immune subject before and Ellie provided them with the first real possibility of a cure? Those notes?
Whether they had a real chance at a cure or not, it's still stupid of them to think that immediately cutting Ellie up is the way to do it.
dicky
>zombie apocalypse
>free dicky available on every corner
newfag.
dicky would very quickly become a controlled commodity. You'd have to fight off the local warlord first.
Only the strong gets to take stuff for free.
Yeah, that's why I would be there first. Good hunting dicky bros.
Its not headcanon that the fireflies are retarded violent raiders
It would be a trolley problem if , you know, the writing wasn't dogshit. Even the tv show watchers know that the whole dilemma is retarded.
>Save your new daughter from being murdered
>Literally sacrifice her for a vaccine you know is literally impossible to make or mass produce because the fireflies are hopeful retards stuck in the past
That's what it is. It should've been a trolley problem between "saving the world vs muh family" but it wasn't
>joel adopts some random hoe as a replacement daughter
>doesn't train her to become his obedient daughter-wife
>allows her to rub clams with some ugly schnozilla in 2
Joel fucked up big time.
>those budding breasts
hhnnnggggg
>simple
yeah that's just it ain't it
>Have Joel and ellie stay at the Firefly base for about a month.
>Have everyone treat them lovingly and kind.
>Then have them experiment on Ellie.
>Maybe show other people just like Ellie who have some type of cells.
>Have the scientist guy working day and night and talk to Joel and Ellie over the course of the month.
>Have different gameplay things that have Joel help the Fireflies out with bandit camps and setting up supply distributions.
>Have the scientist have a breakthrough and manage to do many trials and cure the disease in some type of person.
>Some bandit or Clicker raid assault the camp and kill the people just like Ellie.
>Scientist dude breaks it that he has the cure, but Ellie will have to die in order to get enough serum. Before he could take some from each person ,but he has to get everything from Ellie, thus killing her. He convinces them and it is completely plausible hat the work Joel did to create supply lines and fix up the base enables them to distribute the cure quickly.
>Ellie agrees to sacrifice herself and tells Joel she will miss him.
>Joel agree halfheartedly
>Scientist tells him to say goodbye and the experiment will start at the crack of dawn.
>Joel goes to bed for a few hours, then awakes, scowling.
>Joel tells a bandit group about the weaknesses of the Firefly group (But away from where ellie is)
>Bandit group assaults the place. Joel uses the distraction to try to kidnap ellie.
>Repeat of the final level, with people asking if Joel led the bandits here and screaming about how he betrayed them.
>Scientist guy begs him not to do this and tries to defend Ellie.
>Joel kills him. In other room is teenaged Abby,
>Joel locks eyes on her and points a gun at her, stonefaced. he decides against it and takes Ellie and drives off.
Joel did the right thing.
But that doesn't matter, TLOU1 was mid and TLOU2 was shit.
If you think TLOU story is good go read a fucking book. The people who say it's the peak of the medium are fucking embarassing.
Except its not really one. Trolley problem assumes there is 100% chance the people on the other tracks will die if you pull the lever. There was no guarantee of a cure, so it wasn't a guarantee that saving Ellie prevented any infections. So its more like a trolley problem where if you pull the lever there's a 50/50 chance everyone escapes and lives anyway
I know this is a bait thread since I'm pretty sure you posted another like it earlier, but it's not convincing trolley problem. They failed to make it seem like the Fireflies were anything but retarded psychos and it only works if you take them to be some kind of authority and want to obey them.
>introduction is a terrorist attack
>everyone thinks they suck
>cant even smuggle a girl they think will save humanity
>every firefly you find is dead
>so many dead fireflies they become collectibles
>find ellie unconscious and immediately prepare for surgery
>dont even do any tests or monitor her, just straight to the table
>excuse is she'll be raped and killed anyway so they may as well kill her now (freak logic)
The intent was for Joel to make a controversial decision and leave on a cold note, with his amorality taking the centre stage, but the way they did it was contrived and dishonest (fireflies find Elie already unconscious, cordyceps in the brain even though it doesn't do that, strong-arming Joel and potentially killing him, etc.). It's not a good story. The components are there but they didn't have the talent. All I could think at that point was "oh, so they're psychos too".
>making a vaccine for a literal fungal infection
only retards side with fireflies
Cordyceps also doesn't grow in the brain or nervous system. They wouldn't need to kill Ellie to take a tissue sample.
>God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him John 3:17
I read it as some twisted fucked up gnomish subversion of Christ's sacrifice. Instead of letting him sacrifice himself for our salvation Cuckman chose to save Christ and condemn humanity.
Let's be real, Marlene is at fault for everything. They could've waited for both Ellie and Joel to wake up before proceeding with the procedure. She was already there, there was no reason to rush it. If she just waited then Joel would have had no choice but to let it go because Ellie would have OK'd it. And ok, she ends up doing this, she could have avoided Joel's murder spree by not being like "okay force him out and shoot him if he resists" the moment he expressed discontent, especially after he's the entire reason Ellie made it over there. The entire final level feels rushed as hell.
Well they did a poor job of that since they made the Fireflies looks so incompetent.
I unironically believe that giving so much power to the fireflies in the form of a vaccine would cause so many conflicts between the remains of humanity in the country that sacrificing Ellie would end up killing more people than a vaccine could possibly save
What are the Fireflies' goals anyway? I get that they're fighting the military government, but do they even state what they want to do when they win?