Spy is only the worst class in the game in 6v6 meta and pre-deadringer.
In every other version of the game it was either Heavy or Pyro depending on what the weapon balance was at that time.
Take a look at any prolander game. That's a 7v7 format using highlander rules where teams have to make actual decisions on what two classes to bench at all times.
Of the four classes that do get benched (heavy, pyro, engie, spy) heavy gets benched the least.
this is the ultimate redpill for spy. Even when you're doing "good" with him, it's of intrinsic actual worth to your team. a scout or sniper is almost always better except for a surprise play that immediately invalidates the use of the class after you get make it if the team has half a brain.
>spy >scout sneaks up on medic and forces a pop, can still run away and survive if they aren't greedy
No when you think about it sniper really does ruin the perfect balance of TF2.
He's the only class in the game where not having a medic gf renders him crippled
He's too fat and slow to get around the strict damage radius of his gun, if enemies are outside it there is simply nothing you can do
Enemy soldiers and demos will tear your butthole to shreds from beyond the minigun's effective range
If good spies and snipers are on the server then you simply aren't allowed to play the game
Even if you do everything right, which is 90% the rest of the team babysitting you up to the point as opposed to anything you personally did, you're still pretty much just W+M1ing (but slow and fat) while larping as a mobile sentry gun
I hear you but in a general pub game they are still more effective than spies.
Actual good spies are so rare that its likely every spy on your team (usually 3-4) is dead weight.
So what you mean is you don't like the teamwork aspect of playing heavy? i have never tried heavy but i think i understand why you don't like him. thanks for sharing anon!
Soldier was also crippled without a pocket medic pre-unlocks since he didn't have shit like the gunboats or conch regen to make rocket jumping basically free.
Games balance in general was unironically better back then.
>Games balance in general was unironically better back the
This. The Demo / Soilder update was when shit really lost the plot. (also i think thats around the time they added cosmetic hat shit and the shift around milking the game over gameplay balance and updates became more of a thing.)
People shit on Soldier for being OP but stock Soldier is legitimately well balanced, it's just all of the unlocks he's gotten over the years have made him moronicly mobile and tanky at basically no cost.
Shotgun is pretty damn underrated. In competitive its not that useful since he's relegated to being a flanker but in pubs the shotgun is mandatory since nobody but you is going to kill the entire enemy team
People shit on Soldier for being OP but stock Soldier is legitimately well balanced, it's just all of the unlocks he's gotten over the years have made him moronicly mobile and tanky at basically no cost.
>high damage in an aoe >low damage at range >potential for self damage >mobility at a cost >slowest twoshot out of the main attack classes >slow reloads on all weapons
he had pretty clearly defined strengths and weaknesses back then, and now that everyone equips gunboats they're even more clearly defined and watching them fumble the moment they need to reload is funny
Reloading is for pussies >Jump in while loading Beggar's Bazooka >Obliterate the enemy medic with four rockets at once >Accept my fate while taunting, knowing that I've already won
>Heavy is essential for players who can't aim and tap out at anything beyond walking slowly forward and letting your team break the enemy front while you pick off bombers and morons who get wienery
Heavy is slow because he is a defense class. He is made to be spun up and kill people who walk into him, not to push objectives. The fact you can reliably do that anyway, as long as your team isn't moronic, is good game design. The fact you can't reliably do that if you run around on your own and your team is butt fricking the resupply locker is also good game design.
>He's the only class in the game where not having a medic gf renders him crippled
not necessarily, heavy can do very well on his own as long as he's not running around in big open spaces too much >He's too fat and slow to get around the strict damage radius of his gun, if enemies are outside it there is simply nothing you can do
shotgun works for these situations, you can push forward or fall back while dealing some damage >Enemy soldiers and demos will tear your butthole to shreds from beyond the minigun's effective range
again avoid open spaces, the ideal way to play is to jump at a corner minigun spinning and shred anybody that might be unlucky enough to meet you there >If good spies and snipers are on the server then you simply aren't allowed to play the game
Spies, nah. Snipers? Absolutely, although a good sniper can effectively control the whole game anyways so that's a moot point >Even if you do everything right, which is 90% the rest of the team babysitting you up to the point as opposed to anything you personally did, you're still pretty much just W+M1ing (but slow and fat) while larping as a mobile sentry gun
not true, again the optimal way to play is to be as mobile as possible and avoid blindly crawling through the map while holding M2 or M1. Utilize corners and tight spaces.
Big open spaces are the cryptonite for Heavy mains, most everything else can be played around.
Heavy is the one class that's actually significantly stronger with random crits off since now the class whose entire point is to be a damage sponge doesn't get picked off by one rocket or sticky.
>Heavy is the one class that's actually significantly stronger with random crits off
Nah, I think Spy benefits more. He's only got two weapons that can get random crits and both of them are revolvers, which have some of the least impactful random crits of any gun. To make it worse, his other two revolvers have the gimmicks of critting on command at the expense of no random crits. Most importantly though, the whole gimmick of his kit is getting within melee range for an instant kill, but his knife can't random crit or one-shot people if he misses the back, whereas every other class barring Scout has an above-average chance to instakill his ass with their melees from any direction.
You know there's a pretty fricked up dynamic when Sniper, the class he's supposed to counter and is supposed to be weak at close range, regularly instakills the class built around a melee weapon with his own melee weapon.
morons voted for a Pyro update instead of a Heavy update. The only problem with the class is that the only viable weapons are stock minigun/tomislav, banana and FoS/GRU. There are no fun alternate playstyles or interesting mechanics.
>There are no fun alternate playstyles or interesting mechanics.
That's just because you just admitted to metaslaving. Try switching things up once in a while, Natascha and Huo Long Heater are both fun weapons.
Neither of those really significantly alter your playstyle.
Natascha is functionally identical to the minigun except now you will have scouts and demoknights screaming at you in chat. Huo Long Heater is a joke weapon.
No you're right, Heavy desperately needs an update. I'm just having a lot more fun with him after trying different weapons even though they aren't that different
lol heavy is so strong that competitive players literally piss and shit their pants about him reaching the frontlines at the same time as the other classes because he'd just rape them all
That's not why comp players hate heavy. It's because heavy slows down the game. You have to make a concerted effort to take him down, which means both teams end up playing more defensively.
Heavy's main purpose is to be the frontline. A good heavy positions himself to draw fire so his teammates takes less, while being able to retreat in case he has no backup.
> It's because heavy slows down the game.
yeah this is a nice cope > You have to make a concerted effort to take him down,
which means they'd get raped otherwise
>It's because heavy slows down the game
Have you ever seen a 6s match? Even with their "perfect meta" half the matches are stalemates waiting for a Medic to push with uber. Comp players just don't want to change their decade old meta because it would mean needing to adapt to something new that they aren't so good at
Here is what would happen if you let Heavy get to mid easily, higher level players with better coordination would easily destroy him with focus fire and lower level players with worse coordination would be fricked by it and both teams would end up doing it. So now when the low skill players try to move up the ladder they suddenly realize they learned the game of 6s wrong because the high level players play it differently. Basically Heavy is a skillgate class in pubs but also in 6s and would just make it harder for new players to improve their game.
It's more slow down as in player movement. The thing about heavy is he shuts down how much you can move around in games. Certain dive strats flat out don't work because any plan that involves getting close to a heavy is a bad plan.
>Noooo I can't do the same exact rollout every time to get to mid and bomb their med! >Now I have to turn on my brain and adapt to the situation! >But muh stale meta!
It's like a kid complaining about playing UNO because he always played a certain way and all his friends want to play by the official rules
If the kid's idea of playing UNO is a more fun one then he's probably got a point.
>Noooo I can't do the same exact rollout every time to get to mid and bomb their med!
Strawman, part of the reason high movement is fun is that it can be very dynamic and unpredictable. >Now I have to turn on my brain and adapt to the situation!
They do. And they realise it isn't as fun. >But muh stale meta!
If it's kept them interested this whole time then it can't be that stale.
Compgays are homosexuals for many other reasons but trying to criticise them for finding movement in a shooter fun is fricking moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If it's kept them interested this whole time then it can't be that stale
it hasnt, comp tf2 has done nothing but bleed players
2 years ago
Anonymous
Couldn't that be said for TF2 in general?
2 years ago
Anonymous
literally no
2 years ago
Anonymous
Judging by the amount of community content made the game seems to be a shadow of its former self.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it can't be that stale
It most certainly is, comp players like it stale like this because there's no counter-play or subversion of expectations, you know what to expect and can therefore perform better since you know the map and what the other team is running and trying to do >Play only 5cp (and occasionally koth) >Play only 4/9 classes >Play said classes in a strict team composition (2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demo, 1 Medic) >Many weapon bans are ridiculous, some are justified, I'll admit, but many other just boggle my mind (like how they recently banned the Detonator)
It's always the same team, on the same map, using the same weapons, doing the same thing, nothing really differs
2 years ago
Anonymous
That is largely just them finding something that they find more fun than any other way to play though. You wouldn't criticise chess players for playing with the same pieces in the same set-up over and over.
Now granted, I actually do agree that having less than half the classes in the game makes it less interesting. Problem is it's debateable how much of that is their fault and how much of that is the balance's fault. We literally don't have a competitive format which enables class variety without literally forcing it through class limits. In any case the one thing I won't blame them for is not wanting heavy in the game.
If that was true he would be run more often on KOTH maps in 6s, they just don't like playing against him because its boring to have to focus fire him over and over.
Honest Question:
Minigun or Tomislav? They're very similar yet pretty different. I use stock out of habit but started using Tomislav and I'm starting to see results with it, is it placebo?
original tomislav was broken as frick and got nerfed pretty quickly, but even the nerfed version is pretty much a straight upgrade from default minigun
only place where minigun is better is heavy VS heavy
>minigun
battering ram, good for straight offense or straight defense >tomislav
allows you to be more mobile and do things that isnt "hold M1 and advance on objective"
Tomislav is better except in 3 situations >Heavy vs Heavy >Taking down a wrangled sentry >Pushing with an uber into choke
I'd also argue Minigun is a little better on defense since enemies are closing the gap for you in most cases.
I like tomislav for when I feel like playing "frick off from the team and try ambush or lock down alternate routes" loadout.
Normal minigun for typical objective-centric heavy play.
Heavy will rock your shit up and down the block if he can aim at a very basic level and he's got his minigun spun up. He's a sentry and a bulwark, not a frontal assault class. People expect him to be as versatile as a Soldier when he's not and he's not intended to be. I don't get it.
I did have ~1350 hours on a previous account but it got VAC banned because I left Cheat Engine open like a dumbass a couple times. Sucks, too, I bought TF2 the hard way and had the proof-of-purchase hat.
>it got VAC banned because I left Cheat Engine open like a dumbass a couple times
sure anon, sure
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah, legit. I was trying to get infinite or max souls in Onimusha 3 and apparently Cheat Engine being open at all in a Source game trips a VAC warning.
2 years ago
Anonymous
VAC warnings aren't bans. Left Cheat Engine open many times while playing CSGO and the only thing that happened was a message on the screen saying VAC was blocked or something like that. Only had to close it and sometimes reset my PC. You might get a VAC ban only if Cheat Engine is attached to the game process.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I got banned after doing it two or three times. VAC's behavior with Cheat Engine is apparently inconsistent and Valve's stated behavior (that it will only trip if you're hooked to the process) doesn't apply.
Even if sniper didn't exist heavy is no issue at all. Demo and soldier can fly on command and engage and disengage at any time. They both can use indirect fire to shit on heavy. Direct hit soldier makes this even easier.
Heavy is dogshit. Gets fricked by even the gimmick backstab class.
Demo and Soldier also sacrifice health to fly around (Demo moreso) and it's way less a clear contest if Heavy can aim at all. I do agree Heavy's probably fricked if Soldier has Direct Hit. >Gets fricked by even the gimmick backstab class.
No shit, he has a big back and his weapon requires he stay basically stationary. Heavy's supposed to be a vulnerable target because he's hard to kill in a frontal assault.
This. Smart heavies know not to engage demos and soldiers who can weave in and out of a corner to take potshots at him. What most players don't realize is that you don't have to actively be dealing damage or be getting kills to provide value to the team. Heavy is enough of a threat that the enemy team has back off to deal with him, meaning he passively gives your team pushing power.
Heavy is bad because he's weak to specialists and to other power classes. Compgays hate him because if he can get to the point WITH a medic WITH kritz he CAN grind the pace of a 6s match to a halt. Compgays hate switching classes or anything that hurts the 2 soldier 2 scout medic+demo meta. This leaves heavy only viable with a pocket in pubs where there is no coordination but even then medic+demo is way worse just because of the mobility demo has.
If this was true Heavy wouldn't be a problem at all in 6s as soldier and demo is literally what half of both teams consist of.
Indirect fire assumes heavy can't just jump corners. Direct hit obviously doesn't make indirect fire easier (hint is in the name) and is subject to falloff. Which is a big part of counter play against heavy, your best bet is attacking him at distances where your damage output is throttled so it can become tedious given his large health pool.
Heavy's counter by spy completely assumes the heavy's medic isn't communicating with him via mic.
>Chase spy as a scout up some stairs that go around a corner >wait at the bottom 1 second and watch them round the corner >without fail every single time they jump back around to try a stab on me >but I'm at the bottom of the stairs and just shoot their ass dead
I always wonder what goes through their minds as they notice I'm still at the bottom of the stairs as they sail down to their dooms in a double tap of 100 + 70 scattergun damage
i always do this but >keep looking at them while they try to figure out where i went >the finally find me and look at me >schadenfreude and wait for them to kill themselves
works 90% of the time, and in the 10% where they backstab you while laughing, it's still worth it
And then there's me >Do this >See Spy land right in front of me >Scout_paincrticialdeath01.wav >Somehow he managed to backstab me despite being right in front of me
first of all, use the shotgun
second, don't push alone - this doesn't mean wait for a medic
camp a juncture until it's time to push
enemies that escape by surfing are gone
do not engage at a distance
pre shooting, even at nothing (preferably at a doorway you know the enemy wants to pour out of), is a great idea - longer you've been revved, more damage you do. Frick ammo you might die anyway
always. ALWAYS move CLOSER to the enemy when shooting. your damage only goes UP the closer you are and killing is better than deterring but you take what you get and give back what you get
every few paces, look behind you
crouching while you move n shoot is also okay
They should revert the damage rampup nerf. Literally no reason for it to exist besides scouts and spies crying.
As the other anon says ramp-up is the thing that causes heavy to completely shred at close range.
I know you're talking about the thing that reduces heavies damage output when he initially starts spinning, not sure what to call it instead, build-up maybe?
The reason why it was put into the game was valve realised how bullshit they made the spin-time on heavies gun. You could bump into a heavy around a corner and you'd be fricked because he could begin firing at you too quickly, especially with the tomislav.
Honestly? Valve probably would have just reverted the spin-time, but they couldn't really do that because they already went full moron and added a weapon in the game that couldn't conceivably have a particularly long spin-time. So this damage build-up was their compromise on that. They could have just reverted the spin-time on stock and added the build-up on only the tomislav but I guess they felt one change was easier.
>hate sniper with a passion >try to backstab the death machine heavy medic combo >the heavy player is on constant hogh alert and the rest of my team are too busy dying to distract him or his team >realize the borefest that is sniper is the only solution to delete the heavy
Honestly Medic is basically an undistractable opponent if he's being played well. Since the medigun doesn't ever require you to look in any direction to heal. So as long as he's with the heavy, and he's voice communicating, your chances of getting a backstab on the heavy in a competant game are extremely slim.
>Honestly Medic is basically an undistractable opponent if he's being played well. Since the medigun doesn't ever require you to look in any direction to heal
>So as long as he's with the heavy, and he's voice communicating, your chances of getting a backstab on the heavy in a competant game are extremely slim.
Like most popular games, you can't make the machine guns as powerful as real machine guns or there is no reason to use anything else. Over powered shot guns and pistols are everywhere in Pleb fight. Big guns have to be nerfed to Hell and back to keep from being game breaking as do light infantry machine guns, which are everywhere in real life warfare.
Minigun cuts people to ribbons point blank and a good Heavy + Medic combo can solo the entire enemy team. You're either standing still/spinning up the minigun too often or have 0 situational awareness of snipers & spies.
That's the thing though. Playing heavy without a medic is like playing sniper without being at range. You're not playing to the classes strengths at all so it's a poor judgment of his abilities. >but it's not fair that you should need to have another player like that
Yeah it's almost as if he's a really badly designed class.
>it's bad design to have a class that does best with teamwork >in team fortress 2
Heavy also does well with a good dispenser or other heavy so that they can trade lunches or a scout throwing milk or a spy killing those distracted by his massive gun
Demo if he's competent, Heavy if Demo is not competent. Heavy tends to be better for sentry nests if he's in a capable position because he doesn't have to stop and reload.
The problem is he doesn't have a consistently fun game mechanic. Every class has at least one thing that gives you a solid dopamine hit and makes you feel like a badass when you do it. Some obvious ones are Snipers getting headshots or Spies getting backstabs. But there are also less obvious ones like Engineers who get their sentry in just the right place to surprise the enemy and spawn camp them or Scouts who enjoy running rings around people and getting meat shots. Heavy doesn't have that. Mowing down people with the minigun is fun for like the first 10 hours you play the game and then it is boring. Heavy needs something that both requires skill to pull off and is satisfying and rewarding when you do it right. It's hard to think of a good mechanic for him but that's what we need.
>Heavy needs something that both requires skill to pull off and is satisfying and rewarding when you do it right.
The obvious answer to this has always been melee. I think it's a shame that they decided to give Demo the dedicated kit for melee gameplay when you already had two very fun and distinct playstyles with the Demo at that time. Something like that would have been for the Heavy, since it would offer up an actual alternative playstyle for the first time.
Heavy can be entertaining if you understand how the other classes move and operate. Being able to dodge soldier rockets and keep them in your sights instills the fear and they'll start panic spamming; same can be applied to demoman. It's hilarious when Scouts think they can bob and weave when you're familiar with the tactic and make all their effort worthless. Mileage with Heavy goes a lot farther if you're wise to the strategies and movement patterns of the other 8 (yes even mirror matches).
>defining ability is spamming melee M1 on a stationary object for sixty seconds so it evolves into a 200 HP stationary object >said stationary object is worse at tracking enemies than most pub players >literally every class can counter said stationary object by strafing around it or jumping on its head (which is trivial, it's stationary) >if stationary object isnt constantly being hit in the face with a wrench it will either instantly lose a fight to 7/9 classes or be brought to single digit HP >this is ignoring the litany of hard counters said stationary object is subject to >class himself is worthless and uninteresting to the point where his only options for personal weaponry are 2 secondaries used by other classes >dispensers and teleporters may as well be objects you buy at spawn in exchange for scoreboard points >only becomes viable when you shove six of him into a single room (but then what class wouldnt be?) >or if you equip him with nothing but sidegrades that transform him into an AOE tumor nobody enjoys fighting >closely associated with a youtuber who molests children over discord
You know a class when his hardest counter is SPY of all things
>defining ability is spamming melee M1 on a stationary object for sixty seconds so it evolves into a 200 HP stationary object >said stationary object is worse at tracking enemies than most pub players >literally every class can counter said stationary object by strafing around it or jumping on its head (which is trivial, it's stationary) >if stationary object isnt constantly being hit in the face with a wrench it will either instantly lose a fight to 7/9 classes or be brought to single digit HP >this is ignoring the litany of hard counters said stationary object is subject to >class himself is worthless and uninteresting to the point where his only options for personal weaponry are 2 secondaries used by other classes >dispensers and teleporters may as well be objects you buy at spawn in exchange for scoreboard points >only becomes viable when you shove six of him into a single room (but then what class wouldnt be?) >or if you equip him with nothing but sidegrades that transform him into an AOE tumor nobody enjoys fighting >closely associated with a youtuber who molests children over discord
You know a class when his hardest counter is SPY of all things
Engie is a teamwork class. Your sentry protects your team which can fall back to Sentry's line of sight, making the battle 1v2 they can't win. Dispenser heals everyone and gives them ammo, allowing them to be on frontline longer.
It feels like you are trying to play Engie like Soldier or Demo. Or Torbjörn from OW.
Oh shit, I wasn't totally paying attention.
Yeah Cankle strain probably is a creep. Especially with his whole "everyone's favorite uncle" and calling his fanbase his "nieces and nephews"
Yeah, I fricking hate most TF2 YouTubers. Bearded is my favorite, but only because I'm a dumbass that thinks loud = funny. Joey and LazyPurple aren't too bad either.
I used to like SoundSmith, but then he got super fricking whiny and called a bunch of weapons crutches which was pathetic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I used to like SoundSmith, but then he got super fricking whiny and called a bunch of weapons crutches which was pathetic.
wait, what?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ever seen his weapon/hat stereotype videos? He whines about weapons that he can't play against because they're "crutches" and require no skill. Best examples are the Dead Ringer and Loch 'n Load.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I never had problems with the Loch 'n Load
2 years ago
Anonymous
The claim is the marginally faster projectile "aims itself" and the downside of missing doing FRICKING NOTHING either doesn't exist or is somehow an upside to having a rollers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Honestly the way the current TF2 community is using LazyPurple especially given how he's mentioned he's mentally unstable and riddled with anxiety and self loathing is fricking creepy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, I don't frick with it. I feel for him though, it sucks they're using him like that.
I never had problems with the Loch 'n Load
Exactly. There's nothing wrong with the weapons, it's just a skill issue and he's being a baby.
2 years ago
Anonymous
qrd?
haven't given a shit about "da tee eff tu community" since 2015
2 years ago
Anonymous
Take your pick, either his twitter or his videos.
LazyPurple has been on and on about seeing a therapist and being diagnosed with adhd, anxiety etc. you know, pillhead shit.
So he's probably on a ton of meds, and as of late Cankle Strain has been parading him around events and shit banking on oldgay cred since Lazy started playing in like 2011.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>started playing in like 2011
Those of us who've been playing since release really are a minority at this point aren't they?
2 years ago
Anonymous
at this point pretty much yes
i'm willing to bet that half of the current player base joined the game in 2016 or later
already seeing people nostalgic for fricking jungle inferno due to it being "their first major update"
give it enough time and we'll see half of the playerbase consist of people who have only played post 2017 zombie tf2
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, pretty much. Though forgive me for assuming because historically this has been the case, that if you're about to start pretending every update ever after launch was shit, that you're merely pretending as the case it was with those morons that used to run a All Stock Weapons server that got so rectally fissured about people pointing out they either deleted their duty badges or had 2014-2015 join dates that they split off to make a special snowflake clone of tf2.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've been seeing a good number of Primeval Warriors/Grizzled Veterans in-game these past few weeks but yes the majority of the playerbase are post-F2P players
t. 2009 lategay
2 years ago
Anonymous
are you sure those are even real old players?
there's a black market where people sell accounts with early badges, cheater's laments, tuxes, retired achievement promo items like the black rose, etc
i've heard of plenty of newbies buying cheater's lament accounts quite a lot in the past few years.
If they wanted to be really accurate when they advertised competitive mode they should have made the picture a fight between 2 teams of 2 soldiers, 2 demos, a scout, and a medic
I hope you're not earnestly defending the competitive mode. Comp is one of the biggest cancers killing TF2. TF2 was made with a high skill ceiling but still meant to be played casually in community servers
High skill ceiling + unrestricted 12v12 = roaming deathballs of 6 medics and 6 demos. Class and weapon restrictions evolved specifically because the game is broken as frick when you get good. TF2 is balanced around the playerbase being stupid and uncoordinated
>12v12 >fun
Yeah, sure is fun having one of the game's classes be completely unusable due to all of the fricking spam that's happening
I never played 6v6 or highlander but that shit certainly seems more fricking fun than 24 player servers
>cp_orange_x3 >All crits: on >Instant respawns: on >Infinite round time: on >Unlimited caps: on >16v16: on >Micspam and sprays: unrestricted
Oh yeah, time to game
>use direct hit rocket to airblast jump >while in the air reflect fully charged huntsman arrow to headshot speedjumping soldier >land behind heavy medic, puff n sting the medic, airblast heavy off cliff
>not the highest skill ceiling >b-but muh w+m1 meme video from 2007 >le c-tap mastering so difficult, much skill XD >point and click on heads monkey island style >oooohh running close to someone and epic meatshotting him in the back takes so much skill muh double jump >b-but muh aim muh meatshots XD >muh 6s
sorry homeboys, pyro has one of the highest skill ceilings. if not THE highest. that's why comp players rarely play him, he's too risky because he's so difficult to play
any rocket/sticky jump or airshot demo and soldier can do, the pyro can do as well. with stricter timing and only when the enemy allows it, meaning you have to react faster than when you can jump at will my dudes. all scout can do is pressing spacebar twice and spamming AD with his epic null-canceling script. that's all there is to scout movement. no rocket jumps, no pogo, no headshots, nothing. even fricking engineer offers more movement options with sentry jumps.
scout mains are almost as bad as soldier mains, get your head out of your asses. play some unreal tournament or quake and realize that your 'skill' is negligible, worthless scout mains. snipergays are even worse, he has no movement abilities at all.
medic, demo and pyro are the only respectable classes.
Unironically airblast used to take more skill.
Old airblast >had to aim at the small moving projectile with a limited cone, however projectile reflects were autoaimed to nearby enemies.
vs New airblast >have a huge box so timing or aiming for projectiles isn't even an issue, but now have to manually aim reflects.
Is that why everyone is airblasting now? I thought it just got popular thanks to streamers or youtubers or something. I didn't realize that they made pulling it off completely braindead. I'm way less impressed with a bunch of the pyros I was playing against last night.
Ah, so it's not my imagination. I took a break and my trick to shoot rockets at the wall/ceiling was getting more reflects that went towards me and not the floor. Now it's just a "No" button instead of a parry and I guess it's fine since I probably shouldn't be able to facefrick a "counter" class.
Ganker is trying so hard to force this Soldier is brain dead meme, It's not gonna work. Rocket jumping and mastery of air shots give him a very high ceiling. You can tell the difference between a soldier randomly shooting rockets at a payload and one that rocket jumps into the front lines and murders everything in his sights.
>You can tell the difference between a soldier randomly shooting rockets at a payload and one that rocket jumps into the front lines and murders everything in his sights.
One got close to aim at the floor?
homie just jump and use your movement. Scrub soldiers will whiff their rockets. The good soldier will bait out your jump and air shot you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jumping doesn't counter shooting at the floor lmao. Half your reason to airshot is when you get someone in the air with the rocket. What you don't seem to grasp though is soldier isn't the only fricking class that has projectile attacks and that hit people mid-air.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jumping forces a Soldierto have to airshot you unless you are in a cramped low ceiling area, you can easily surf a rocket. In fact him shooting at the feet even once forces him to have to airshot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah the airshot comes from sending people into the air with rockets as I said. You're acting like soldier is the only class that can airshot people.
I feel like engie and spy should have the highest skill floors. They're basically the only two classes more "complex"than shoot other guy or hold m1. Or for medic/demo, m1 and m2.
absolutely incredible no one yet has pointed out the unskilled line for demoman is way too fricking short.
people really don't want their secondary spam taken away and for selfish reasons
is there anything more pathetic than a soldier main? not only does he shit damage like there's no tomorrow, no, he also gets the biggest hitboxes in the game. and as if that wasn't enough, there's splash damage. oh wow yes you're so skilled with your splash damage and high damage when the enemy is grouped up.
crit rockets are basically an instakill on any of the the classes that actually take some skill. why make it harder for the people that are already challenging themselves? seriously, soldier is THE fricking newb class. you couldn't make tf2 any easier if you've tried. at least the demos pipes have an arc, so it takes a bit of skill to hit them. and pipes don't fricking explode the second they hit a wall or some other shit.
hurr durr shoot in straight line aim at feet and splash + GIANT hitboxes take care of the rest for you. and then you get the best movement in the game and 200HP ON TOP OF THE CAKE.
how is this even fair? he has the most unlocks too, so he can be played by any drooling moron no matter the play style. faster rockets? ok. self healing ability? gotcha. le epic XD troll weapons? say no more. soldier is for you you fricking pathetic dullard newb shit.
it's like the entire game was designed around this nooblord of a class. he can do any objective without any issues whatsoever. how bad do you even have to be to main such a stupid beginner class? but what REALLY grinds my gears is how soldier mains actually think they're skilled because they hit a lucky airshot
can we all agree that weapons should be skill based, not luck based?
i.e. projectile based weapons need to be fricking removed from the game.
no, you can't 'predict' the enemies movement, you can not see the fricking future. you're not a schizo, are you?
by using projectiles you are basically saying 'i can't point my crosshair directly on a moving target and click it, so i just shoot at random places, hoping for a lucky hit'. it's ridiculous.
>b-but i'm topfragging as soldier x*~~ i'm so skilled haha
no, you are not 'skilled', you are a pathetic projectile spamming troglodyte. you're just very lucky, literally any newb could topfrag lobbies with projectiles. it has nothing to do with skilled usage of the weapons, good muscle memory or great reaction times, it is literally just a guessing game.
i'd suggest you'd play the lottery and get rich if you're that lucky. just don't come complaining when you get wrecked by actually skilled hitscan engies or snipers.
the only reason projectiles are still in this game is valve's 'no kid left behind' mentality. they have to have some weapons for the bad players to feel good about themselves, so even the bad players (mostly soldier and demo mains) get to win from time to time and continue playing/buying hats.
>inb4 I CAN SEE DA FUTURE I SWEAR :DD
prove your 'prediction skillz' and upload a 5 minute video where you do not miss a single rocket/pipe. i can almost guarantee you that your accuracy will hover around 50%, rather than 100%
Imagine getting crushed by Soldier and Demo so hard you seethe about it on basket weaving forum. You posted a pyro are you too stupid to use airblast to beat a soldier and demo in 90% of encounters?
Gotta love the fact that the weapon that was pushed as being "soldier-like" because it allegedly was about making ballsy last-ditch efforts to get a kill ended up being used for running away like a coward. Are we sure soldier isn't french?
>pyro airblasts me out of flamethrower range and doesn't follow up with anything
Is there an unironic reason why people do this shit? Half of the time I would be dead if they didn't do this
from what i've seen i think it's that they're hoping afterburn will just kill you - they try knocking you down low enough to just let the fire take care of you without actually realizing they haven't knocked you down far enough and that afterburn is not good enough to let them just frick off when you're at mid-health. there's also just the 'at least it chucks you off a point' reason
if you're playing pyro also or they're doing it out of nowhere though i have no fricking clue
heavy's good, all classes are, surprisingly enough.
It's just that his gameplay is excruciatingly linear.
Spy is undoubtedly the weaker one, but still balanced, as in he has no outright broken weapon (be it for OP or underpowered).
Ok anons, this is my skill tier list that I've based on optimal play, so cool shit that sketchek can do doesnt change the fact that pyro is the easiest class in the game.
His movement is too advanced to be near pyro and your not playing soldier optimally if you're firing 40 damage rockets at the floor, much better to be hitting directs. He's not super difficult, I dont think any of the TF2 classes are, but hes significantly more difficult than Pyro at an optimal level.
Move Scout up a tier, Engineer down a tier and swap Heavy with Pyro. Nothing Heavy or Engineer do is as difficult as basic Flare Gun shots or reflecting projectiles.
The teamwork and positioning Engineer and Heavy require to be played effectively is more difficult than aiming one of the fastest projectiles in the game, and reflecting projectiles is easy as shit.
I don't know man, Engineer "positioning" is basically solved and Pyro has a lot of the same positioning restrictions that Heavy does. Even if landing flares and reflecting projectiles aren't the hardest things in the world I think it's still much harder to do consistently and a big jump up in difficulty from building something that literally aims for you or having basic tracking with a gun that fires in a pretty generous cone.
Also I don't think it's a good idea to factor the things your teammates are doing into a metric for individual class skill, 'cause otherwise Demo should be at rock bottom in D tier since kritz stickies are legit braindead.
>The teamwork and positioning Engineer and Heavy require to be played effectively is more difficult than aiming one of the fastest projectiles in the game
Lol no. The positioning a Scout or a Spy have to learn to not instantly die is 100x harder than heavy's. Why do heavy mains always say they're the only class in the game that needs to know positioning? This is obvious bullshit.
Pyro main who hasn't played inawhile. Does this thing still demolish everything or have they nerfed it yet? Seriously, not only is this the best Pyro flamethrower, it's the best one by FAR.
They nerfed it in Blue Moon >That's bad...
But they later fixed the bugs with the projectile! >That's good!
But you still flash-bang yourself when firing it >That's bad...
But there's visual mods that fix it! >That's good!
But there's no visual indication where the center of the projectile is for the bonus damage and firing speed >That's bad...
6v6 cp5 is all about getting to the mid point and sniper has no way to boost himself
it's a good class to switch into but bad at the start of the round
Some maps take a while to get to mid, and running Sniper out on something like Granary (absolutely terrible idea btw), Sunshine, and Metalworks is almost like fighting 5v6. Snakewater mid has terrible sightlines. Badlands mid has really funky geometry and it's super easy for Soldiers to jump anyone they want no matter where they are. Gully is okay because spawn's close so you aren't horribly late to mid, and Process has great sightlines which makes cheeky Sniper mids worthwhile now and then, but forces team's to play slow/defensive.
Most maps where full-time Sniper is a viable choice are KOTH/Attack-Defense maps. Most 5CPs that were Sniper-friendly were dropped out of rotation (Warmfront) or rejected after testing (Foundary).
That tier list is likely subject to rollouts. Sniper would probably be tier 2 if it's assumed the fight is close to spawn and Heavy would probably be in that tier was well if it's also assumed there's a medic available.
In addition to what the other anons said about sniper being slow, when 6v6 is fast paced, any lackluster sniper play is heavily punishing.
watch something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2gcnxQej3c
and you can see how poor sniper play in 6v6 is detrimental compared to a lackluster scout, soldier or demoman.
TF2 is dead, it's time to move on to the superior multiplayer Valve shooter >Fully mod supported with a large amount to choose from >Consistent playerbase that isn't filled with bots >No israelite cosmetics, if you want to change the appearance of someone you download a mod, no transactions required >A well programmed game director ensures that almost every game you play is different than the last, promoting replayability >even if you get bored of playing the same campaign maps all the time, there are plenty of great custom maps to choose from >has one of the most advanced gore systems in a vidya >Versus still makes homosexuals and shitters seethe to this day
I can never truly get away from the game. even if I fume at pubs 99% of the time I bother playing them
I don't understand how sniper isn't tier 0 at the highest level. He has no counters other then sniper himself.
in 6v6 sniper isn't super strong because he can't get to mid fast with the rest of the team. he's good during stalematey parts of the game like pushing/defending last, but if you run sniper fulltime you're basically 5v6 in the initial midfight when it'd be much better to have the presence of a scout or soldier.
>frick around on 10x Randomizer server >Fists of Steel make you completely immune to ranged damage >fist 6 people before someone just melees me
why aren't there more goofy servers like this
>Have mouse 2 shoot like it normal does, except it doesn't apply any knockback
There, now there's even combo potential (mouse for maximum damage, then mouse 1 to push them away if they didn't die)
I think it's kind of funny. I seem to recall that when I began playing TF2 in 2009, the Force-A-Nature was one of the most complained about weapons on the Steam Forums.
Pro tip, the role of the heavy is defense.
Your job is to be the Team Dad and escort your idiot children to the neighborhood swimming pool.
Gunning down enemy dads and their children
Are things finally starting to look up? I don't want to get too hopeful but if Valve really does clean up all the bots, maybe it'd spark renewed interest in the game from outsiders who only hear about the ruckus tf2 players make. Maybe it'd actually compel Valve to work on TF-related things again, maybe not an update but something better.
>Being decapitated by a sword removes all cosmetics from the ragdoll >Being decapitated by the Hitman's Heatmaker doesn't do that, even though it should be the same form of "decapitation" in that all it does is shrink your head really tiny and throw a head gib
it's literally impossible to make the stock usable over anything else in any situation
the bloodsausage is fine the way it is
the overdose is a really dumb weapon and the only way to make it useful would be to rework it into something else, like a syringe gun you shoot at teammates or something
Pyro is arguably worse and Spy is definitely worse. Heavy's biggest issue is just that he's boring, most of his unlocks either suck ass or don't change his playstyle enough to mix things up.
its spy
You can at least have fun as spy without being chained to a pocket medic and pyro
spy isnt the games mascot
He meant Spy is the worst class in the game
Spy is only the worst class in the game in 6v6 meta and pre-deadringer.
In every other version of the game it was either Heavy or Pyro depending on what the weapon balance was at that time.
Take a look at any prolander game. That's a 7v7 format using highlander rules where teams have to make actual decisions on what two classes to bench at all times.
Of the four classes that do get benched (heavy, pyro, engie, spy) heavy gets benched the least.
Spy is one of the best classes in pubs. I top frag every game once I figure out which enemies posses lesser brainpower
you "top frag" because every backstab is 2 points and you pick on players that aren't actually doing anything lmfao
this is the ultimate redpill for spy. Even when you're doing "good" with him, it's of intrinsic actual worth to your team. a scout or sniper is almost always better except for a surprise play that immediately invalidates the use of the class after you get make it if the team has half a brain.
Spy and Sniper both get welfare points so they don't always look completely worthless on the scoreboard
that is.. good i think? i'm glad you're enjoying the game. either way i'm proud of you anon
>spy is good when you're playing against morons
nice argument lol
hey moron, if you are preforming well on spy you'd have 1.5x the frags and doms if you were playing soldier instead.
Doesn't matter, Spy is more fun than Soldier and Demo
t. can't explosive jump
Mobility is better than being tanky in a game with a lot of damage flying around.
Sniper existing in that game.
>Noooo my 450 HP walking ball of close range damage isn't allowed to have non-ubercharge counters!
>spy
>scout sneaks up on medic and forces a pop, can still run away and survive if they aren't greedy
No when you think about it sniper really does ruin the perfect balance of TF2.
I didn't say that, if anything it's the only reason sniper is tolerable in TF2, without him heavy would be stupidly strong
Demo is already more than capable of countering Heavy.
I will frick you up with stock shotgun demoBlack person
*sticky spams you from a mile away*
nothing personnel kid
Not if the heavy has a medic and plays smart. TF2 deathballs like Overwatch with a heavy/medic demo at it's core without Sniper.
i don't really think there is "the absolute worst class" in tf2. how do you find heavy the worst op?
He's the only class in the game where not having a medic gf renders him crippled
He's too fat and slow to get around the strict damage radius of his gun, if enemies are outside it there is simply nothing you can do
Enemy soldiers and demos will tear your butthole to shreds from beyond the minigun's effective range
If good spies and snipers are on the server then you simply aren't allowed to play the game
Even if you do everything right, which is 90% the rest of the team babysitting you up to the point as opposed to anything you personally did, you're still pretty much just W+M1ing (but slow and fat) while larping as a mobile sentry gun
I hear you but in a general pub game they are still more effective than spies.
Actual good spies are so rare that its likely every spy on your team (usually 3-4) is dead weight.
Heavies role is to sit on a point and be an annoying blockade for the enemy team.
If you are pushing with Heavy then he is always going to be shit.
>Heavy's role is to be an engineer but even more boring and with less fun weapons
So what you mean is you don't like the teamwork aspect of playing heavy? i have never tried heavy but i think i understand why you don't like him. thanks for sharing anon!
Soldier was also crippled without a pocket medic pre-unlocks since he didn't have shit like the gunboats or conch regen to make rocket jumping basically free.
Games balance in general was unironically better back then.
Soldier can at least rocket jump to health packs, heavy is just fricked without a medic
Banana
which renders him immobile and vulnerable to attack
>Games balance in general was unironically better back the
This. The Demo / Soilder update was when shit really lost the plot. (also i think thats around the time they added cosmetic hat shit and the shift around milking the game over gameplay balance and updates became more of a thing.)
People shit on Soldier for being OP but stock Soldier is legitimately well balanced, it's just all of the unlocks he's gotten over the years have made him moronicly mobile and tanky at basically no cost.
Shotgun is pretty damn underrated. In competitive its not that useful since he's relegated to being a flanker but in pubs the shotgun is mandatory since nobody but you is going to kill the entire enemy team
I run stock Soldier and there's nothing crippled about him, even compared to the ridiculous frickfest that is weapon balance at this point.
>high damage in an aoe
>low damage at range
>potential for self damage
>mobility at a cost
>slowest twoshot out of the main attack classes
>slow reloads on all weapons
he had pretty clearly defined strengths and weaknesses back then, and now that everyone equips gunboats they're even more clearly defined and watching them fumble the moment they need to reload is funny
Reloading is for pussies
>Jump in while loading Beggar's Bazooka
>Obliterate the enemy medic with four rockets at once
>Accept my fate while taunting, knowing that I've already won
>now that everyone equips gunboats
Conch is too strong man. Gunboats support a different style of gameplay, but it is undeniable that a banner buff on your team is absurdly strong.
Conch is better when you don't have a Medic but an overhealed Gunboats Soldier is moronicly strong
>Conch is better when you don't have a Medic but an overhealed Gunboats Soldier is moronicly strong
But I like popping my speed boost with uber.
Sounds like a skill issue to me, anon. I main Heavy and pubstomp on my own. What loadout do you run? I use the Tomislav, banana, and GRU.
you play like a fricking moron. heavy is essential for filtering out normies who play tf2 like cod.
get gud homosexual
>Heavy is essential for players who can't aim and tap out at anything beyond walking slowly forward and letting your team break the enemy front while you pick off bombers and morons who get wienery
Heavy is slow because he is a defense class. He is made to be spun up and kill people who walk into him, not to push objectives. The fact you can reliably do that anyway, as long as your team isn't moronic, is good game design. The fact you can't reliably do that if you run around on your own and your team is butt fricking the resupply locker is also good game design.
So nerf the demo and soldier.
>nerf the fun classes to make the lame, boring class less shit
no
>He's the only class in the game where not having a medic gf renders him crippled
not necessarily, heavy can do very well on his own as long as he's not running around in big open spaces too much
>He's too fat and slow to get around the strict damage radius of his gun, if enemies are outside it there is simply nothing you can do
shotgun works for these situations, you can push forward or fall back while dealing some damage
>Enemy soldiers and demos will tear your butthole to shreds from beyond the minigun's effective range
again avoid open spaces, the ideal way to play is to jump at a corner minigun spinning and shred anybody that might be unlucky enough to meet you there
>If good spies and snipers are on the server then you simply aren't allowed to play the game
Spies, nah. Snipers? Absolutely, although a good sniper can effectively control the whole game anyways so that's a moot point
>Even if you do everything right, which is 90% the rest of the team babysitting you up to the point as opposed to anything you personally did, you're still pretty much just W+M1ing (but slow and fat) while larping as a mobile sentry gun
not true, again the optimal way to play is to be as mobile as possible and avoid blindly crawling through the map while holding M2 or M1. Utilize corners and tight spaces.
Big open spaces are the cryptonite for Heavy mains, most everything else can be played around.
Heavy is god tier on A/D and Payload where the majority of the community is outside of CTF trash
I'm pretty sure Heavy has always gotten the short end of the stick, I don't even think people used him in QWTF and TFC.
Heavy is the one class that's actually significantly stronger with random crits off since now the class whose entire point is to be a damage sponge doesn't get picked off by one rocket or sticky.
>Heavy is the one class that's actually significantly stronger with random crits off
Nah, I think Spy benefits more. He's only got two weapons that can get random crits and both of them are revolvers, which have some of the least impactful random crits of any gun. To make it worse, his other two revolvers have the gimmicks of critting on command at the expense of no random crits. Most importantly though, the whole gimmick of his kit is getting within melee range for an instant kill, but his knife can't random crit or one-shot people if he misses the back, whereas every other class barring Scout has an above-average chance to instakill his ass with their melees from any direction.
You know there's a pretty fricked up dynamic when Sniper, the class he's supposed to counter and is supposed to be weak at close range, regularly instakills the class built around a melee weapon with his own melee weapon.
morons voted for a Pyro update instead of a Heavy update. The only problem with the class is that the only viable weapons are stock minigun/tomislav, banana and FoS/GRU. There are no fun alternate playstyles or interesting mechanics.
>There are no fun alternate playstyles or interesting mechanics.
That's just because you just admitted to metaslaving. Try switching things up once in a while, Natascha and Huo Long Heater are both fun weapons.
Neither of those really significantly alter your playstyle.
Natascha is functionally identical to the minigun except now you will have scouts and demoknights screaming at you in chat. Huo Long Heater is a joke weapon.
No you're right, Heavy desperately needs an update. I'm just having a lot more fun with him after trying different weapons even though they aren't that different
>There are no fun alternate playstyles or interesting mechanics.
Fat scout is pretty fun. Ambush Heavy with the KGB can also lead to some crazy shit.
>no fun
I dictate who has fun and who has no fun.
lol heavy is so strong that competitive players literally piss and shit their pants about him reaching the frontlines at the same time as the other classes because he'd just rape them all
That's not why comp players hate heavy. It's because heavy slows down the game. You have to make a concerted effort to take him down, which means both teams end up playing more defensively.
Heavy's main purpose is to be the frontline. A good heavy positions himself to draw fire so his teammates takes less, while being able to retreat in case he has no backup.
> It's because heavy slows down the game.
yeah this is a nice cope
> You have to make a concerted effort to take him down,
which means they'd get raped otherwise
>It's because heavy slows down the game
Have you ever seen a 6s match? Even with their "perfect meta" half the matches are stalemates waiting for a Medic to push with uber. Comp players just don't want to change their decade old meta because it would mean needing to adapt to something new that they aren't so good at
Here is what would happen if you let Heavy get to mid easily, higher level players with better coordination would easily destroy him with focus fire and lower level players with worse coordination would be fricked by it and both teams would end up doing it. So now when the low skill players try to move up the ladder they suddenly realize they learned the game of 6s wrong because the high level players play it differently. Basically Heavy is a skillgate class in pubs but also in 6s and would just make it harder for new players to improve their game.
It's more slow down as in player movement. The thing about heavy is he shuts down how much you can move around in games. Certain dive strats flat out don't work because any plan that involves getting close to a heavy is a bad plan.
>Noooo I can't do the same exact rollout every time to get to mid and bomb their med!
>Now I have to turn on my brain and adapt to the situation!
>But muh stale meta!
It's like a kid complaining about playing UNO because he always played a certain way and all his friends want to play by the official rules
If the kid's idea of playing UNO is a more fun one then he's probably got a point.
>Noooo I can't do the same exact rollout every time to get to mid and bomb their med!
Strawman, part of the reason high movement is fun is that it can be very dynamic and unpredictable.
>Now I have to turn on my brain and adapt to the situation!
They do. And they realise it isn't as fun.
>But muh stale meta!
If it's kept them interested this whole time then it can't be that stale.
Compgays are homosexuals for many other reasons but trying to criticise them for finding movement in a shooter fun is fricking moronic.
>If it's kept them interested this whole time then it can't be that stale
it hasnt, comp tf2 has done nothing but bleed players
Couldn't that be said for TF2 in general?
literally no
Judging by the amount of community content made the game seems to be a shadow of its former self.
>it can't be that stale
It most certainly is, comp players like it stale like this because there's no counter-play or subversion of expectations, you know what to expect and can therefore perform better since you know the map and what the other team is running and trying to do
>Play only 5cp (and occasionally koth)
>Play only 4/9 classes
>Play said classes in a strict team composition (2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demo, 1 Medic)
>Many weapon bans are ridiculous, some are justified, I'll admit, but many other just boggle my mind (like how they recently banned the Detonator)
It's always the same team, on the same map, using the same weapons, doing the same thing, nothing really differs
That is largely just them finding something that they find more fun than any other way to play though. You wouldn't criticise chess players for playing with the same pieces in the same set-up over and over.
Now granted, I actually do agree that having less than half the classes in the game makes it less interesting. Problem is it's debateable how much of that is their fault and how much of that is the balance's fault. We literally don't have a competitive format which enables class variety without literally forcing it through class limits. In any case the one thing I won't blame them for is not wanting heavy in the game.
The original comp format only used four classes and heavy wasn't among them.
If that was true he would be run more often on KOTH maps in 6s, they just don't like playing against him because its boring to have to focus fire him over and over.
They don't play him because they banned all his good unlocks
Honest Question:
Minigun or Tomislav? They're very similar yet pretty different. I use stock out of habit but started using Tomislav and I'm starting to see results with it, is it placebo?
No tomislav is a straight upgrade from stock and I wonder why nobody seems to care
Minigun is more powerful, Tomislav is generally more useful though. However you will win a fight against a Tomislav heavy as a Minigun heavy.
Tomislav is a straight upgrade outside of rare situations like fighting a heavy at point blank range
>heavy vs heavy at close range
>rare
yes
Tomislav, it's basically an upgrade (unless something has changed about it since this video was posted).
Tomislav because thats my name
original tomislav was broken as frick and got nerfed pretty quickly, but even the nerfed version is pretty much a straight upgrade from default minigun
only place where minigun is better is heavy VS heavy
Tomislav is great for around the corner ambushes
tomislav is more versitile
minigun is better at pushing through chokes
>minigun
battering ram, good for straight offense or straight defense
>tomislav
allows you to be more mobile and do things that isnt "hold M1 and advance on objective"
Tomislav is better except in 3 situations
>Heavy vs Heavy
>Taking down a wrangled sentry
>Pushing with an uber into choke
I'd also argue Minigun is a little better on defense since enemies are closing the gap for you in most cases.
tomi for when you have no medic
Iron Curtain because it's cool and exclusive now
Use the Natasha
It's so busted, banned from comp
Guaranteed to make lime scouts seethe
I like tomislav for when I feel like playing "frick off from the team and try ambush or lock down alternate routes" loadout.
Normal minigun for typical objective-centric heavy play.
But honestly, the tomislav is good for either.
Tomislav is more useful against everyone else besides another heavy using the minigum.
The Brass Beast.
Idk, I use the chinese minigun because it makes fire and sounds great
Heavy will rock your shit up and down the block if he can aim at a very basic level and he's got his minigun spun up. He's a sentry and a bulwark, not a frontal assault class. People expect him to be as versatile as a Soldier when he's not and he's not intended to be. I don't get it.
Because roleplaying as a lvl2 sentry is boring
Works on my machine.
>causes steamrolls on pubs
>got his rollout fricked to keep him out of competitive
>"heavy is worst class I swear"
Every time.
Never said it didn't work. Said it was boring. Did you reply to the wrong post?
Looks like forty hours of boredom to me.
Yes, it does.
>those hours
fricking weak, don't post again until you reach 2k hours minimum
I did have ~1350 hours on a previous account but it got VAC banned because I left Cheat Engine open like a dumbass a couple times. Sucks, too, I bought TF2 the hard way and had the proof-of-purchase hat.
>it got VAC banned because I left Cheat Engine open like a dumbass a couple times
sure anon, sure
Nah, legit. I was trying to get infinite or max souls in Onimusha 3 and apparently Cheat Engine being open at all in a Source game trips a VAC warning.
VAC warnings aren't bans. Left Cheat Engine open many times while playing CSGO and the only thing that happened was a message on the screen saying VAC was blocked or something like that. Only had to close it and sometimes reset my PC. You might get a VAC ban only if Cheat Engine is attached to the game process.
I got banned after doing it two or three times. VAC's behavior with Cheat Engine is apparently inconsistent and Valve's stated behavior (that it will only trip if you're hooked to the process) doesn't apply.
Even if sniper didn't exist heavy is no issue at all. Demo and soldier can fly on command and engage and disengage at any time. They both can use indirect fire to shit on heavy. Direct hit soldier makes this even easier.
Heavy is dogshit. Gets fricked by even the gimmick backstab class.
Demo and Soldier also sacrifice health to fly around (Demo moreso) and it's way less a clear contest if Heavy can aim at all. I do agree Heavy's probably fricked if Soldier has Direct Hit.
>Gets fricked by even the gimmick backstab class.
No shit, he has a big back and his weapon requires he stay basically stationary. Heavy's supposed to be a vulnerable target because he's hard to kill in a frontal assault.
This. Smart heavies know not to engage demos and soldiers who can weave in and out of a corner to take potshots at him. What most players don't realize is that you don't have to actively be dealing damage or be getting kills to provide value to the team. Heavy is enough of a threat that the enemy team has back off to deal with him, meaning he passively gives your team pushing power.
Heavy is bad because he's weak to specialists and to other power classes. Compgays hate him because if he can get to the point WITH a medic WITH kritz he CAN grind the pace of a 6s match to a halt. Compgays hate switching classes or anything that hurts the 2 soldier 2 scout medic+demo meta. This leaves heavy only viable with a pocket in pubs where there is no coordination but even then medic+demo is way worse just because of the mobility demo has.
If this was true Heavy wouldn't be a problem at all in 6s as soldier and demo is literally what half of both teams consist of.
Indirect fire assumes heavy can't just jump corners. Direct hit obviously doesn't make indirect fire easier (hint is in the name) and is subject to falloff. Which is a big part of counter play against heavy, your best bet is attacking him at distances where your damage output is throttled so it can become tedious given his large health pool.
Heavy's counter by spy completely assumes the heavy's medic isn't communicating with him via mic.
They should revert the damage rampup nerf. Literally no reason for it to exist besides scouts and spies crying.
>Chase spy as a scout up some stairs that go around a corner
>wait at the bottom 1 second and watch them round the corner
>without fail every single time they jump back around to try a stab on me
>but I'm at the bottom of the stairs and just shoot their ass dead
I always wonder what goes through their minds as they notice I'm still at the bottom of the stairs as they sail down to their dooms in a double tap of 100 + 70 scattergun damage
i always do this but
>keep looking at them while they try to figure out where i went
>the finally find me and look at me
>schadenfreude and wait for them to kill themselves
works 90% of the time, and in the 10% where they backstab you while laughing, it's still worth it
And then there's me
>Do this
>See Spy land right in front of me
>Scout_paincrticialdeath01.wav
>Somehow he managed to backstab me despite being right in front of me
>spy says "how was that a backstab?" in chat before you can
I think you're just bad at heavy, since I pretty much never get a medic and easily topscore. Just use him for ambush and don't pick 5v1 fights
that's not the pyro sry
You are just shit in the game. Git gud!
>tfw strange gunslinger engie
first of all, use the shotgun
second, don't push alone - this doesn't mean wait for a medic
camp a juncture until it's time to push
enemies that escape by surfing are gone
do not engage at a distance
pre shooting, even at nothing (preferably at a doorway you know the enemy wants to pour out of), is a great idea - longer you've been revved, more damage you do. Frick ammo you might die anyway
always. ALWAYS move CLOSER to the enemy when shooting. your damage only goes UP the closer you are and killing is better than deterring but you take what you get and give back what you get
every few paces, look behind you
crouching while you move n shoot is also okay
why does his minigun have damage ramp-up? it makes him completely fricking worthless 99% of the time
ramp-up is the damage increase when you get close to things, fall-off is the damage decrease when you get far from things
As the other anon says ramp-up is the thing that causes heavy to completely shred at close range.
I know you're talking about the thing that reduces heavies damage output when he initially starts spinning, not sure what to call it instead, build-up maybe?
The reason why it was put into the game was valve realised how bullshit they made the spin-time on heavies gun. You could bump into a heavy around a corner and you'd be fricked because he could begin firing at you too quickly, especially with the tomislav.
Honestly? Valve probably would have just reverted the spin-time, but they couldn't really do that because they already went full moron and added a weapon in the game that couldn't conceivably have a particularly long spin-time. So this damage build-up was their compromise on that. They could have just reverted the spin-time on stock and added the build-up on only the tomislav but I guess they felt one change was easier.
>hate sniper with a passion
>try to backstab the death machine heavy medic combo
>the heavy player is on constant hogh alert and the rest of my team are too busy dying to distract him or his team
>realize the borefest that is sniper is the only solution to delete the heavy
But everyone being distracted is the perfect time for spy
Anon was saying no one was able to distract them.
Honestly Medic is basically an undistractable opponent if he's being played well. Since the medigun doesn't ever require you to look in any direction to heal. So as long as he's with the heavy, and he's voice communicating, your chances of getting a backstab on the heavy in a competant game are extremely slim.
That's why you backstab the medic
>Honestly Medic is basically an undistractable opponent if he's being played well. Since the medigun doesn't ever require you to look in any direction to heal
That's why you backstab the heavy.
>So as long as he's with the heavy, and he's voice communicating, your chances of getting a backstab on the heavy in a competant game are extremely slim.
That's why you backstab the sniper
Shoot the medic with the diamond back or ambassador.
Like most popular games, you can't make the machine guns as powerful as real machine guns or there is no reason to use anything else. Over powered shot guns and pistols are everywhere in Pleb fight. Big guns have to be nerfed to Hell and back to keep from being game breaking as do light infantry machine guns, which are everywhere in real life warfare.
What the frick are you talking about OP?
Minigun cuts people to ribbons point blank and a good Heavy + Medic combo can solo the entire enemy team. You're either standing still/spinning up the minigun too often or have 0 situational awareness of snipers & spies.
With a Medic he's good. Alone he is are very easy for most classes to pick off.
That's the thing though. Playing heavy without a medic is like playing sniper without being at range. You're not playing to the classes strengths at all so it's a poor judgment of his abilities.
>but it's not fair that you should need to have another player like that
Yeah it's almost as if he's a really badly designed class.
>it's bad design to have a class that does best with teamwork
>in team fortress 2
Heavy also does well with a good dispenser or other heavy so that they can trade lunches or a scout throwing milk or a spy killing those distracted by his massive gun
By your logic 2fort is the best map because it has the most fortresses.
put dispenser here
Poots entry here
<----------------------
Now that there is a fine piece of work.
Get on point, stoopid.
Who is better to give critz to: Heavy, or Demo?
Demo if he's competent, Heavy if Demo is not competent. Heavy tends to be better for sentry nests if he's in a capable position because he doesn't have to stop and reload.
If demo can aim pills, I'd kritz demo.
widowmaker engie
overwatch would later repeat this
They copied us again bros it's not fair
he had his time to shine with the pre-nerf tomislav
The problem is he doesn't have a consistently fun game mechanic. Every class has at least one thing that gives you a solid dopamine hit and makes you feel like a badass when you do it. Some obvious ones are Snipers getting headshots or Spies getting backstabs. But there are also less obvious ones like Engineers who get their sentry in just the right place to surprise the enemy and spawn camp them or Scouts who enjoy running rings around people and getting meat shots. Heavy doesn't have that. Mowing down people with the minigun is fun for like the first 10 hours you play the game and then it is boring. Heavy needs something that both requires skill to pull off and is satisfying and rewarding when you do it right. It's hard to think of a good mechanic for him but that's what we need.
>Heavy needs something that both requires skill to pull off and is satisfying and rewarding when you do it right.
The obvious answer to this has always been melee. I think it's a shame that they decided to give Demo the dedicated kit for melee gameplay when you already had two very fun and distinct playstyles with the Demo at that time. Something like that would have been for the Heavy, since it would offer up an actual alternative playstyle for the first time.
most dopamine I get playing heavy is killing scouts, soldiers and demos who think they caught me off-guard with the shotgun.
>450 HP heavyknight
No thank you
Heavy can be entertaining if you understand how the other classes move and operate. Being able to dodge soldier rockets and keep them in your sights instills the fear and they'll start panic spamming; same can be applied to demoman. It's hilarious when Scouts think they can bob and weave when you're familiar with the tactic and make all their effort worthless. Mileage with Heavy goes a lot farther if you're wise to the strategies and movement patterns of the other 8 (yes even mirror matches).
>defining ability is spamming melee M1 on a stationary object for sixty seconds so it evolves into a 200 HP stationary object
>said stationary object is worse at tracking enemies than most pub players
>literally every class can counter said stationary object by strafing around it or jumping on its head (which is trivial, it's stationary)
>if stationary object isnt constantly being hit in the face with a wrench it will either instantly lose a fight to 7/9 classes or be brought to single digit HP
>this is ignoring the litany of hard counters said stationary object is subject to
>class himself is worthless and uninteresting to the point where his only options for personal weaponry are 2 secondaries used by other classes
>dispensers and teleporters may as well be objects you buy at spawn in exchange for scoreboard points
>only becomes viable when you shove six of him into a single room (but then what class wouldnt be?)
>or if you equip him with nothing but sidegrades that transform him into an AOE tumor nobody enjoys fighting
>closely associated with a youtuber who molests children over discord
You know a class when his hardest counter is SPY of all things
For me, it's the Direct Hit, the best engie salt miner in the game.
Got a fricking chuckle out of me lmao
>this class is so weak and garbage
>but I cannot deal with it
?
Engie is a teamwork class. Your sentry protects your team which can fall back to Sentry's line of sight, making the battle 1v2 they can't win. Dispenser heals everyone and gives them ammo, allowing them to be on frontline longer.
It feels like you are trying to play Engie like Soldier or Demo. Or Torbjörn from OW.
>closely associated with a youtuber who molests children over discord
Post any kind of evidence right now.
If they're talking about big joey, maybe.
If they're talking about Zesty, it's probably french trannies still mad at him.
I think he's implying Uncle Dane. Frick Uncle Dane by the way.
Oh shit, I wasn't totally paying attention.
Yeah Cankle strain probably is a creep. Especially with his whole "everyone's favorite uncle" and calling his fanbase his "nieces and nephews"
Yeah, I fricking hate most TF2 YouTubers. Bearded is my favorite, but only because I'm a dumbass that thinks loud = funny. Joey and LazyPurple aren't too bad either.
I used to like SoundSmith, but then he got super fricking whiny and called a bunch of weapons crutches which was pathetic.
>I used to like SoundSmith, but then he got super fricking whiny and called a bunch of weapons crutches which was pathetic.
wait, what?
Ever seen his weapon/hat stereotype videos? He whines about weapons that he can't play against because they're "crutches" and require no skill. Best examples are the Dead Ringer and Loch 'n Load.
I never had problems with the Loch 'n Load
The claim is the marginally faster projectile "aims itself" and the downside of missing doing FRICKING NOTHING either doesn't exist or is somehow an upside to having a rollers.
Honestly the way the current TF2 community is using LazyPurple especially given how he's mentioned he's mentally unstable and riddled with anxiety and self loathing is fricking creepy.
Yeah, I don't frick with it. I feel for him though, it sucks they're using him like that.
Exactly. There's nothing wrong with the weapons, it's just a skill issue and he's being a baby.
qrd?
haven't given a shit about "da tee eff tu community" since 2015
Take your pick, either his twitter or his videos.
LazyPurple has been on and on about seeing a therapist and being diagnosed with adhd, anxiety etc. you know, pillhead shit.
So he's probably on a ton of meds, and as of late Cankle Strain has been parading him around events and shit banking on oldgay cred since Lazy started playing in like 2011.
>started playing in like 2011
Those of us who've been playing since release really are a minority at this point aren't they?
at this point pretty much yes
i'm willing to bet that half of the current player base joined the game in 2016 or later
already seeing people nostalgic for fricking jungle inferno due to it being "their first major update"
give it enough time and we'll see half of the playerbase consist of people who have only played post 2017 zombie tf2
Yeah, pretty much. Though forgive me for assuming because historically this has been the case, that if you're about to start pretending every update ever after launch was shit, that you're merely pretending as the case it was with those morons that used to run a All Stock Weapons server that got so rectally fissured about people pointing out they either deleted their duty badges or had 2014-2015 join dates that they split off to make a special snowflake clone of tf2.
I've been seeing a good number of Primeval Warriors/Grizzled Veterans in-game these past few weeks but yes the majority of the playerbase are post-F2P players
t. 2009 lategay
are you sure those are even real old players?
there's a black market where people sell accounts with early badges, cheater's laments, tuxes, retired achievement promo items like the black rose, etc
i've heard of plenty of newbies buying cheater's lament accounts quite a lot in the past few years.
If they wanted to be really accurate when they advertised competitive mode they should have made the picture a fight between 2 teams of 2 soldiers, 2 demos, a scout, and a medic
Anyone have the pic like this but with a cake analogy?
>Burger that's way too tall to eat
>Vs burger that can actually fit inside your mouth
6s chads win again
I hope you're not earnestly defending the competitive mode. Comp is one of the biggest cancers killing TF2. TF2 was made with a high skill ceiling but still meant to be played casually in community servers
High skill ceiling + unrestricted 12v12 = roaming deathballs of 6 medics and 6 demos. Class and weapon restrictions evolved specifically because the game is broken as frick when you get good. TF2 is balanced around the playerbase being stupid and uncoordinated
>12v12
>fun
Yeah, sure is fun having one of the game's classes be completely unusable due to all of the fricking spam that's happening
I never played 6v6 or highlander but that shit certainly seems more fricking fun than 24 player servers
>12v12
>not 16v16
>cp_orange_x3
>All crits: on
>Instant respawns: on
>Infinite round time: on
>Unlimited caps: on
>16v16: on
>Micspam and sprays: unrestricted
Oh yeah, time to game
>orange
>not mario kart on 2fort2furious
are you referring to only payload, specifically? lol
Heavy is unironically the class which requires the highest iq to play
lolol no
>spy not being the highest skill ceiling wise
>pyro higher then soldier, barley under scout
who the frick made this list
>Spy
>High skill ceiling
Waiting for the enemy combo to get careless or distracted isn't a skill
>use direct hit rocket to airblast jump
>while in the air reflect fully charged huntsman arrow to headshot speedjumping soldier
>land behind heavy medic, puff n sting the medic, airblast heavy off cliff
>not the highest skill ceiling
>b-but muh w+m1 meme video from 2007
>le c-tap mastering so difficult, much skill XD
>point and click on heads monkey island style
>oooohh running close to someone and epic meatshotting him in the back takes so much skill muh double jump
>b-but muh aim muh meatshots XD
>muh 6s
sorry homeboys, pyro has one of the highest skill ceilings. if not THE highest. that's why comp players rarely play him, he's too risky because he's so difficult to play
any rocket/sticky jump or airshot demo and soldier can do, the pyro can do as well. with stricter timing and only when the enemy allows it, meaning you have to react faster than when you can jump at will my dudes. all scout can do is pressing spacebar twice and spamming AD with his epic null-canceling script. that's all there is to scout movement. no rocket jumps, no pogo, no headshots, nothing. even fricking engineer offers more movement options with sentry jumps.
scout mains are almost as bad as soldier mains, get your head out of your asses. play some unreal tournament or quake and realize that your 'skill' is negligible, worthless scout mains. snipergays are even worse, he has no movement abilities at all.
medic, demo and pyro are the only respectable classes.
Unironically airblast used to take more skill.
Old airblast
>had to aim at the small moving projectile with a limited cone, however projectile reflects were autoaimed to nearby enemies.
vs New airblast
>have a huge box so timing or aiming for projectiles isn't even an issue, but now have to manually aim reflects.
It's so bizarre when you are looking down at a pyro in a 10 foot deep trench and they air blast straight and you get knocked back.
Is that why everyone is airblasting now? I thought it just got popular thanks to streamers or youtubers or something. I didn't realize that they made pulling it off completely braindead. I'm way less impressed with a bunch of the pyros I was playing against last night.
Have a shot at doing it yourself some time.
Ah, so it's not my imagination. I took a break and my trick to shoot rockets at the wall/ceiling was getting more reflects that went towards me and not the floor. Now it's just a "No" button instead of a parry and I guess it's fine since I probably shouldn't be able to facefrick a "counter" class.
>medic and scout having that high a ceiling
>Heavy and Engie's being so low
>Pyro
>Skill
Nice joke.
Dragon's fury
>scout's skill ceiling
>jump around like a spastic moron and don't miss your shots
truly the hardest class to master
>jump around like a spastic moron and don't miss your shots
>truly the hardest class to master
This but unironically
This is the only accurate skill level chart. Old as frick and still holds true today. Anything else is biased cope.
>classes i kill the most over classes that kill me the most
This list is almost just based on health lol.
It's not a bad metric. Having less health means you have to do more to survive.
Ganker is trying so hard to force this Soldier is brain dead meme, It's not gonna work. Rocket jumping and mastery of air shots give him a very high ceiling. You can tell the difference between a soldier randomly shooting rockets at a payload and one that rocket jumps into the front lines and murders everything in his sights.
>You can tell the difference between a soldier randomly shooting rockets at a payload and one that rocket jumps into the front lines and murders everything in his sights.
One got close to aim at the floor?
homie just jump and use your movement. Scrub soldiers will whiff their rockets. The good soldier will bait out your jump and air shot you.
Jumping doesn't counter shooting at the floor lmao. Half your reason to airshot is when you get someone in the air with the rocket. What you don't seem to grasp though is soldier isn't the only fricking class that has projectile attacks and that hit people mid-air.
Jumping forces a Soldierto have to airshot you unless you are in a cramped low ceiling area, you can easily surf a rocket. In fact him shooting at the feet even once forces him to have to airshot.
Yeah the airshot comes from sending people into the air with rockets as I said. You're acting like soldier is the only class that can airshot people.
Soldier should be higher than Pyro
I feel like engie and spy should have the highest skill floors. They're basically the only two classes more "complex"than shoot other guy or hold m1. Or for medic/demo, m1 and m2.
absolutely incredible no one yet has pointed out the unskilled line for demoman is way too fricking short.
people really don't want their secondary spam taken away and for selfish reasons
Skill isn't the same as IQ.
>heavy
>worst
homie what
is there anything more pathetic than a soldier main? not only does he shit damage like there's no tomorrow, no, he also gets the biggest hitboxes in the game. and as if that wasn't enough, there's splash damage. oh wow yes you're so skilled with your splash damage and high damage when the enemy is grouped up.
crit rockets are basically an instakill on any of the the classes that actually take some skill. why make it harder for the people that are already challenging themselves? seriously, soldier is THE fricking newb class. you couldn't make tf2 any easier if you've tried. at least the demos pipes have an arc, so it takes a bit of skill to hit them. and pipes don't fricking explode the second they hit a wall or some other shit.
hurr durr shoot in straight line aim at feet and splash + GIANT hitboxes take care of the rest for you. and then you get the best movement in the game and 200HP ON TOP OF THE CAKE.
how is this even fair? he has the most unlocks too, so he can be played by any drooling moron no matter the play style. faster rockets? ok. self healing ability? gotcha. le epic XD troll weapons? say no more. soldier is for you you fricking pathetic dullard newb shit.
it's like the entire game was designed around this nooblord of a class. he can do any objective without any issues whatsoever. how bad do you even have to be to main such a stupid beginner class? but what REALLY grinds my gears is how soldier mains actually think they're skilled because they hit a lucky airshot
can we all agree that weapons should be skill based, not luck based?
i.e. projectile based weapons need to be fricking removed from the game.
no, you can't 'predict' the enemies movement, you can not see the fricking future. you're not a schizo, are you?
by using projectiles you are basically saying 'i can't point my crosshair directly on a moving target and click it, so i just shoot at random places, hoping for a lucky hit'. it's ridiculous.
>b-but i'm topfragging as soldier x*~~ i'm so skilled haha
no, you are not 'skilled', you are a pathetic projectile spamming troglodyte. you're just very lucky, literally any newb could topfrag lobbies with projectiles. it has nothing to do with skilled usage of the weapons, good muscle memory or great reaction times, it is literally just a guessing game.
i'd suggest you'd play the lottery and get rich if you're that lucky. just don't come complaining when you get wrecked by actually skilled hitscan engies or snipers.
the only reason projectiles are still in this game is valve's 'no kid left behind' mentality. they have to have some weapons for the bad players to feel good about themselves, so even the bad players (mostly soldier and demo mains) get to win from time to time and continue playing/buying hats.
>inb4 I CAN SEE DA FUTURE I SWEAR :DD
prove your 'prediction skillz' and upload a 5 minute video where you do not miss a single rocket/pipe. i can almost guarantee you that your accuracy will hover around 50%, rather than 100%
Imagine getting crushed by Soldier and Demo so hard you seethe about it on basket weaving forum. You posted a pyro are you too stupid to use airblast to beat a soldier and demo in 90% of encounters?
But pyros best secondaries are all projectiles.
Soldier > Medic > Demoman > Heavy > Engineer > Pyro > Scout > Sniper > Spy
Any questions?
What are are you measuring? I mean Spy's probably is that small.
Objectivly best classes/usefulness in a game if played right
>medic that low
>sniper that low
>heavy that high
>soldier that high
>scout that low
>best class in the game is a disabled PoC
Chudbros...
>objectively the best soldier weapon in the game
>randomly one-shots a Heavy while running at 300mph
I fricking miss it so much
Old Equalizer was so fricking fun
Would the new Equalizer be better if the damage gained from lower health was monstrously higher? I think that could be fun
old equalizer was stupidly busted, i don't know how and why they didn't nerf it like one week after release
Gotta love the fact that the weapon that was pushed as being "soldier-like" because it allegedly was about making ballsy last-ditch efforts to get a kill ended up being used for running away like a coward. Are we sure soldier isn't french?
>not using it to one-shot an unaware Heavy because of the ridiculous damage ramp-up
>2022
>sv_pure is still forced in valve servers
>sprays are still disabled in valve servers
shit game
shit company
Why are Ganker‘s opinion on tf2 balance so bad, are most players sub 1k hours or something
>pyro airblasts me out of flamethrower range and doesn't follow up with anything
Is there an unironic reason why people do this shit? Half of the time I would be dead if they didn't do this
I've always seen that as "I don't want to look like a WM+1 so i'll randomly airblast sometimes"
from what i've seen i think it's that they're hoping afterburn will just kill you - they try knocking you down low enough to just let the fire take care of you without actually realizing they haven't knocked you down far enough and that afterburn is not good enough to let them just frick off when you're at mid-health. there's also just the 'at least it chucks you off a point' reason
if you're playing pyro also or they're doing it out of nowhere though i have no fricking clue
heavy's good, all classes are, surprisingly enough.
It's just that his gameplay is excruciatingly linear.
Spy is undoubtedly the weaker one, but still balanced, as in he has no outright broken weapon (be it for OP or underpowered).
Ok anons, this is my skill tier list that I've based on optimal play, so cool shit that sketchek can do doesnt change the fact that pyro is the easiest class in the game.
>soldier anywhere near that high just for shooting feet
he is on par with pyro, bait-kun.
His movement is too advanced to be near pyro and your not playing soldier optimally if you're firing 40 damage rockets at the floor, much better to be hitting directs. He's not super difficult, I dont think any of the TF2 classes are, but hes significantly more difficult than Pyro at an optimal level.
Move Scout up a tier, Engineer down a tier and swap Heavy with Pyro. Nothing Heavy or Engineer do is as difficult as basic Flare Gun shots or reflecting projectiles.
The teamwork and positioning Engineer and Heavy require to be played effectively is more difficult than aiming one of the fastest projectiles in the game, and reflecting projectiles is easy as shit.
How is positioning hard lmao.
>teamwork
You mean from other players.
I don't know man, Engineer "positioning" is basically solved and Pyro has a lot of the same positioning restrictions that Heavy does. Even if landing flares and reflecting projectiles aren't the hardest things in the world I think it's still much harder to do consistently and a big jump up in difficulty from building something that literally aims for you or having basic tracking with a gun that fires in a pretty generous cone.
Also I don't think it's a good idea to factor the things your teammates are doing into a metric for individual class skill, 'cause otherwise Demo should be at rock bottom in D tier since kritz stickies are legit braindead.
>The teamwork and positioning Engineer and Heavy require to be played effectively is more difficult than aiming one of the fastest projectiles in the game
Lol no. The positioning a Scout or a Spy have to learn to not instantly die is 100x harder than heavy's. Why do heavy mains always say they're the only class in the game that needs to know positioning? This is obvious bullshit.
I really like the tomislav and shotguns.
It's time to post your favorite "bad" weapons, I demand you!
They're bad as a melee weapon since almost any random crit means you get one-shot, but it's the only way I can get people to melee me back
eureka effect
Shortstop or Baby Face Blaster
>3000 hours since 2012
>negative kd on all classes
I fricking suck at this game
Does this count like MvM? Mine seem too high
I'm not sure, I can't find any info about it online. But you'd think that the average would be even higher if it did count MvM
damn bros i'm actually really good?
>Demoman with lowest k/d ratio
how
I don't like playing demoman
Why not
he's annoying to arc aim
mine is glitched, it says I have an average of 105 kills as spy but the most kills in one life for spy is 15
Pyro main who hasn't played inawhile. Does this thing still demolish everything or have they nerfed it yet? Seriously, not only is this the best Pyro flamethrower, it's the best one by FAR.
still fricks
Bueno
They nerfed it in Blue Moon
>That's bad...
But they later fixed the bugs with the projectile!
>That's good!
But you still flash-bang yourself when firing it
>That's bad...
But there's visual mods that fix it!
>That's good!
But there's no visual indication where the center of the projectile is for the bonus damage and firing speed
>That's bad...
overpowered
>medic
>soldier
>sniper
almost overpowered
>demoman
>scout
balanced
>engineer (only because the wrangler exists)
underpowered
>pyro
>heavy
lol
>spy
Demo is the most OP class in the game except sniper
Accurate, but I'd move heavy up a notch.
You're literally a hair from the actual tier list compgays cite:
>Tier 1
Medic
>Tier 2
Scout, Demo, Soldier
>Tier 3
Sniper
>Tier 4
Heavy
>Tier 5
Engineer
>Tier 6
Pyro, Spy
I don't understand how sniper isn't tier 0 at the highest level. He has no counters other then sniper himself.
Sniper is countered by the relative playercount in a given server, you can't prove me wrong about this.
sniper and medic are tier 0 in highlander, they're basically the only classes that matter
6v6 cp5 is all about getting to the mid point and sniper has no way to boost himself
it's a good class to switch into but bad at the start of the round
Some maps take a while to get to mid, and running Sniper out on something like Granary (absolutely terrible idea btw), Sunshine, and Metalworks is almost like fighting 5v6. Snakewater mid has terrible sightlines. Badlands mid has really funky geometry and it's super easy for Soldiers to jump anyone they want no matter where they are. Gully is okay because spawn's close so you aren't horribly late to mid, and Process has great sightlines which makes cheeky Sniper mids worthwhile now and then, but forces team's to play slow/defensive.
Most maps where full-time Sniper is a viable choice are KOTH/Attack-Defense maps. Most 5CPs that were Sniper-friendly were dropped out of rotation (Warmfront) or rejected after testing (Foundary).
That tier list is likely subject to rollouts. Sniper would probably be tier 2 if it's assumed the fight is close to spawn and Heavy would probably be in that tier was well if it's also assumed there's a medic available.
In addition to what the other anons said about sniper being slow, when 6v6 is fast paced, any lackluster sniper play is heavily punishing.
watch something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2gcnxQej3c
and you can see how poor sniper play in 6v6 is detrimental compared to a lackluster scout, soldier or demoman.
6v6 is a special custom game mode, not the actual game
Listen. If you play only payload all the time you're going to think spies and scouts can't kill him, too
The only reason you'd kill a sniper as a scout is if he was a bad sniper
TF2 is dead, it's time to move on to the superior multiplayer Valve shooter
>Fully mod supported with a large amount to choose from
>Consistent playerbase that isn't filled with bots
>No israelite cosmetics, if you want to change the appearance of someone you download a mod, no transactions required
>A well programmed game director ensures that almost every game you play is different than the last, promoting replayability
>even if you get bored of playing the same campaign maps all the time, there are plenty of great custom maps to choose from
>has one of the most advanced gore systems in a vidya
>Versus still makes homosexuals and shitters seethe to this day
Fine I'll stop posting and go play some TF2 right now instead.
>One is a PvE or 4v4
>The other is a 6v6, 9v9, 12v12 or 16v16 class based shooter
>Comparing them
I will never understand this copypasta
>comparing them
You literally just did.
Sorry, I only play L4D during the fall & winter.
airblast is a half assed mechanic that would go on to curse pyro from ever getting rebalanced properly in the future
change my mind
Ok so how would he be balanced if airblast didn't exist, and who else would be there to make soldiers and demos cry?
post hours
I've started playing again recently for no good reason
10k
my only regret is not playing more custom servers
There's nothing like it. Even when my group plays other stuff, we have it in rotation.
I can never truly get away from the game. even if I fume at pubs 99% of the time I bother playing them
in 6v6 sniper isn't super strong because he can't get to mid fast with the rest of the team. he's good during stalematey parts of the game like pushing/defending last, but if you run sniper fulltime you're basically 5v6 in the initial midfight when it'd be much better to have the presence of a scout or soldier.
That's not the sniper.
>frick around on 10x Randomizer server
>Fists of Steel make you completely immune to ranged damage
>fist 6 people before someone just melees me
why aren't there more goofy servers like this
i miss how many more fun custom maps we had years ago. prop hunt was my shit
I miss how you used to blow me free of charge. $5 is way too much.
good to see the community is just as homosexual as it was when i stopped playing
>The only server running ctf_facing_worlds is a dead 5v5 sniper server
This video is literally the deepest humor in all vidya-related writing. Change my mind.
It took me a full decade to notice the Tzu/zoo joke
Shit, dude. Looks like you really, REALLY need these.
>Son, who said that?
meet the spy is funnier
how do you make this gun not shit?
make the knockback happen only on the second hit
>Have mouse 2 shoot like it normal does, except it doesn't apply any knockback
There, now there's even combo potential (mouse for maximum damage, then mouse 1 to push them away if they didn't die)
I think it's kind of funny. I seem to recall that when I began playing TF2 in 2009, the Force-A-Nature was one of the most complained about weapons on the Steam Forums.
It was a nightmare in Arena mode.
Use the Crit-a-Cola
Revert the airblast nerf so that it functions correctly instead of putting anything you shoot with it into blast strafe
>You are on your way to PL_Hightower
How do you respond?
Pro tip, the role of the heavy is defense.
Your job is to be the Team Dad and escort your idiot children to the neighborhood swimming pool.
Gunning down enemy dads and their children
Are things finally starting to look up? I don't want to get too hopeful but if Valve really does clean up all the bots, maybe it'd spark renewed interest in the game from outsiders who only hear about the ruckus tf2 players make. Maybe it'd actually compel Valve to work on TF-related things again, maybe not an update but something better.
>class on the box has the highest skill requirement to play
checks out
frick it i'm going on turbine and going heavy just for fricking lulz
should i use tomislav?
Airblast + reserve shooter is the lowest IQ tactic in the game
Walking directly into a blind corner and crying that a pyro is there is lower IQ
Or worse back when that actually was a thing
RUNNING DIRECTLY ACROSS AN OPEN SPACE TO THE DEGREASER PYRO AND THEN GETTING MAD THAT YOU DIE
put dispenser here
>Being decapitated by a sword removes all cosmetics from the ragdoll
>Being decapitated by the Hitman's Heatmaker doesn't do that, even though it should be the same form of "decapitation" in that all it does is shrink your head really tiny and throw a head gib
how would you make the syringe guns an appealing alternative to the crossbow? Besides just removing the crossbow.
Convince morons that the crossbow meme is in fact a meme and mow down entire servers with the blutsauger and syringe gun.
it's literally impossible to make the stock usable over anything else in any situation
the bloodsausage is fine the way it is
the overdose is a really dumb weapon and the only way to make it useful would be to rework it into something else, like a syringe gun you shoot at teammates or something
I think passive reload would help a lot. They'd still need something more, but having to reload manually sucks ass.
Give them the Needler explosion from Halo.
>Medic with the needler
madman
mad milk syringes
They already are.
Pyro is arguably worse and Spy is definitely worse. Heavy's biggest issue is just that he's boring, most of his unlocks either suck ass or don't change his playstyle enough to mix things up.
not enough speed
It’s the only class that isn’t preferred by homosexuals and transgenders
just do the little hop spin up move around corners so you're not so obvious. if you're heavying in obvious sniper spots then thats on you.
All you need is tracking and map sense whom you can do fine without a medic. Why is Ganker filled with moronic aimlets?
If the other team has competent snipers that "map sense" means just leaving the server
Post men of obesity.