>generic fantasy medieval setting
>dull race selection
>devs couldn't think of a way to engage with the world, so they roadblock you with that stupid gold collection
>nobody acts like a normal human
>npcs boil down to "lol quirky random one liners"
>most companions are either humans or humans-with-pointy-ears
>Imoen
>boring gameplay, most "fun" I had was when I turned it into a walking simulator with shadowdancer
>no real incentive to follow the plot
>the only RP options are: goody-two-shoes, is in it for the money and "I'm an evil bastard but will still follow the plot because the devs couldn't think of how to make evil route"
How is this considered the best CRPG?
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Very weak bait, with very weak arguments.
Some of them are so obvious no one can take you seriously, such as
>devs couldn't think of a way to engage with the world, so they roadblock you with that stupid gold collection
This is literally to drive you to go explore the world, without specifically telling you where to go or what to do.
Making you forced to do a series of quests and visit specific locations all in specific order would not improve things.
It's frankly a really good structure that both forces them to explore to progress, but also completely leaves it up to the player where to go and what to do. Yet all the while their goal is crystal clear.
Fair enough, I would say it's a completely fair argument. But it's not as if the world is anything particularly interesting. While having generic medieval fantasy setting is not a problem in itself, BG2's take on it is rather lukewarm. It's nothing to write home about. After spending some time wandering about, it failed to have any kind of impact on me, making my initial desire to explore fade out.
Almost every quest and npc you meet on your way in the 2nd(and 3rd) chapters feels like a joke(literally). A joke that's not funny, but grating. I can already see the developers pat themselves on the back for being so clever and quirky. This lessened my desire to interact with the world even further.
And of course, the goal. The reason you're expect to keep going from the story perspective. That is, either rescue Imoen or find Irenicus. This is the part that immediately dropped my desire to play further from the start. You spend maybe at best 20 minutes with Imoen before she's gone. 20 minutes of "omg it's so creepy in here" every 5 seconds. Like, I get it Imoen, but shut up. She tries to be all sentimental, but 20 minutes with a character who's main personality trait is her pink hair? Yeah, I feel very compelled to save her.
Then you have Irenicus. Who's supposedly a threat, but for a good chunk of the game he's nowhere. Even when he starts to be actively featured in the story, his presence is still barely felt, even during his own cutscenes. There's even less incentive to care about his existence, with the exception of the possibility of him being a further threat — the only reason I could see someone trying to advance the story.
>But it's not as if the world is anything particularly interesting
Have you even played the game? I could understand if you said this about BG1. Not reading the rest of this drivel.
Care to enlighten me, then?
>This is the part that immediately dropped my desire to play further from the start. You spend maybe at best 20 minutes with Imoen before she's gone.
....Baldur's Gate 2 is a sequel, anon. You're supposed to play 1. Had you done so, you would already have an emotional attachment to Imoen. What you've essentially done here is pick up book 2 of a series, and then complain that you don't care about one of the main characters being put in moral peril, because "they barely had any sceeentime" in that book. Yeah, no shit. The writers didn't expect you to jump in half way through the story
is it possible to defeat the last part of the game without making vast mayority of the side quests?? Last time I tried I was blasted over and over again by those fricking basilisks, and I know they are not the hardest fiends of the final act, but frick they are an ultimate pain in the ass.
I'm running a new adventure for BG1 EE (modded beamdog version) with a cleric in a chaotic good route (I know is pointless but for me is worth to mention since it totally dictates which companions you have to pick up for your quest), any suggestions, is been years since I played,
DnD often has these gimmick monsters that require you to know the tabletop rules.
Because I really have no clue how you are supposed to find out that undead, including summoned skeletons are immune to basilisk attacks.
Teach a mage Protection from Petrification, iirc the dude at High Hedge sells the scrolls.
Also good if you don't have a mage:
>undead of all types
>potion of mirrored eyes
same anon from
, interesting, I forgot about that option, good hint man, thanks
>How is this considered the best CRPG?
timestop
NWN has timestop too
There's already a general going here
BG2 isn't for discussion, it's a moron magnet for off topic shitposting. No one in this thread plays rpgs.
why don't you play rpgs, anon? they're fun.
Imoen hater, opinion disregarded.
True knowers know the best crpgs are either pre-Fallout or post-Pillars of Eternity. The majority of games from the first crpg renaissance are and have always been slop.
Pre fallout crpgs are almost universally trash and you don't even play them. This isn't the codex you're not going to get updoots from your fellow poseurs.
how many even are there? the only ones i've ever heard of are blade of destiny and darkeden
There are quite a few.
like?
Also recommend Albion. If you want to know about more, mobygames is a useful tool to find games with specific styles that you are interested in.
oh, those didn't come to mind because to my mind "crpg" has a specific connotation of an isometric perspective and all that. those you brought up have a more generic rpg look like you'd see in something like final fantasy
Yeah, many people are confused about that because some Interplay/Black Isle fanboy morons in the early 2000s started calling computer rpgs, crpgs, as "classic rpgs" to mean post Fallout games. Shattered Lands is extremely similar to Fallout though, in that you have quests and dialogue trees and freedom of movement, besides the lack of isometric perspective and skills/perks.
>how many even are there
There are hundreds and many are very good.
BG3 is fairly insufferable to from the clips I've seen.
The same person made both threads. Do try to keep up.
Is it better to play the original version or EE? I've seen a lot of anons trash-talking EE, but I've also heard the bad things about EE can be skipped.
I am a moderate purist and so I prefer the originals. However, the only way to get the originals nowadays is to buy the EEs on GOG I believe. It’s possible to mod out most of the offensively stupid fan fiction shit they added (new NPCs) but I believe they also added new magic items and new dialogues for existing characters. I haven’t played them so someone else can provide more details.
Aside from the garbage they added, the EEs are ports of BG1 into the BG2 engine, along with adding some quality of life features. I don’t mind that in principle, and some things (like area looting after a battle) are a welcome change imo. There are some purists that dislike porting bg1 to bg2 engine because it imbalances the game and changes the rules and some mechanics, which they dislike. However, it’s been common for 20+ years for players of the original games to play bg1 in the bg2 engine, so this doesn’t bother me personally.
In summary, if you never played the originals, I think the EEs are fine IF you mod out the garbage shit they added to the game. And don’t play siege of Dragonspear, just import from bg1 straight to bg2.
>but I believe they also added new magic items and new dialogues for existing characters
No, they didn't. Beamdog was explicitly banned from altering pre-existing content.
>only way to get the originals nowadays is to buy
there is another way...
The only way.
A single mod will remove the annoying oc shit from ee. On the other hand you need about 10 mods to bring of up to EE standards. Just get EE and turn on alternate render, classic selection circles and zoom lock, turn off hp bars. Now it looks identical to og. Also you can turn off cosmetic attacks and once you play without them you'll wonder why bioware put that dumb shit in the game to begin with
There is also an issue of EE adding classes and mechanics from BG2 to BG1 which "breaks the game's balance", but let's be honest, people who say those things usually then play BGT/Tutu, which does the exact same thing.
I am also a purist, so I encourage people to play the originals. In these discussions, people always offer the low hanging fruit like the "woke shit extras" that ruin the game, but fail to mention the plethora of "bug fixes" that completely change the game. Stealth is ruined because of the Shadowdancer. Tons of items and play-styles get ruined too. I will concede that some aspects of the EE is more playable (specifically base druid shifts), but so much more is ruined. If your screen is big enough, then you don't really need to worry about the resolution patch, you can just have your GPU run the game in a different resolution. I also really like the lack of power creep in the original BG2:SoA. It makes the game a bit harder, which is needed, by not allowing you to stack insane magical items upon starting the game.
But getting the originals to work is a pain in the ass
I got mine to work with little issue. All I had to do was clear an install shield cache somewhere and it installed and worked perfectly since. Google told me the answer when I searched for it. Not tough at all.
I think it's because
1. People don't like to role play and want to have a story with predetermined characters that is easy to understand. Unfortunately plebs prefer "kill bad guy, collect loot, repeat" much more than interesting stories that make you think. That's why Fallout 3 and 4 sold much better than Fallout 1 and NV, that's why BG2 sold better than Arcanum, that's why BG3 is GOTY.
2. People played it when they were kids and are just biased. These are contrarian homosexuals who hate BG3 and praise BG2 while failing to understand that they are the same thing
Tl:dr people like to eat garbage
>plebs prefer "kill bad guy, collect loot, repeat" much more than interesting stories that make you think
nah, planescape was regarded as one of the best rpgs ever made. this is just one of those theories that seems plausible, but holds no weight. you are simply seeking to understand chaos.
Is that why no one looks up to planescape torment when making an rpg? I guess you can count in DE, but for every DE there are 10 DOS2'es that make twice as much with much less thought and creativity involved.
I can replace BG2 to BG and arcanum with fallout and nothing in what I said would change. If you used your two braincells you would stop and think WHY these games had bigger marketing campaigns.
>GOTY is a meaningless label when so few big RPGs are released
And when they are released they are made by using Bioware formula that I described earlier. If the people weren't yearning for this type of content then we wouldn't get it.
>I can replace BG2 to BG and arcanum with fallout and nothing in what I said would change
That's funny, because nothing I said would change either.
>If you used your two braincells you would stop and think WHY these games had bigger marketing campaigns.
Okay, I'm moronic. Tell me why.
>That's why Fallout 3 and 4 sold much better than Fallout 1 and NV, that's why BG2 sold better than Arcanum, that's why BG3 is GOTY.
This board has some of the stupidest motherfrickers I swear
In every one of these examples, the games that sold more had massively bigger marketing campaigns.
The arcanum example is especially stupid. BG2 was a massive sequel to a popular landmark title in the genre. Arcanum was a much smaller and undercooked game released with little marketing.
people also don't realize how tiny the pc gaming market was when games like baldur's gate were released. it was nothing compared to what it was in 2008, when fallout 3 was released. they also don't realize that fallout 3 was a 360 event, and sold much more for the 360 than pc.
>plebs
>stories in video games
Plebs play video games for story instead of reading books. Video GAME, game being the operative word. It's not a video story.
>Game: *offers an unique opportunity to craft stories that give player agency and freedom that is impossible to replicate in any other form of art*
>60 IQ overgrown loser from codex: "Those are the GAMEEEES!!! They are meant for children and morons like me!!!! If you want stories where you choices matter and you can role play then, I dunno, go read a book or something"
you don't seem very intelligent.
If a moron calls me names then it means that i'm on the right track
true, calling people 60 IQ and losers is like an auto-concession
>using word "concession" unironically
Rethink your life choices
*buys Tendies at a concession stand* “I accept your concession, thank you”
>using the word "unironically" at all
yikes
>>Game: *offers an unique opportunity to craft stories that give player agency and freedom that is impossible to replicate in any other form of art*
Actually CRPG are very bad at this and this is unlikely to ever change as a medium. The CRPGs with the most actual permutations inevitably have to cut other aspects to get this, and end up feeling like a glorified CYOA visual novel (see: age of decadence).
I will reiterate that crafting unique and dynamic experiences is not only not achieved in CRPGs but it is actually a terrible medium for this, for reasons o would hope are obvious to anyone with an IQ over 100 who takes a moment to think about the problems involved. Just as one example, tabletop is markedly superior in this regard.
Ironically the games with the most player agency and freedom are the ones with the LEAST amount of story, with the LEAST amount of defined interactions and relationships. Which ends up producing a sort of LARPers sandbox that is functionally the equivalent of a kid playing with toys and imagining scenarios that aren't actually functionally present.
this
that's why every jrpg ever is 90 of pressing x/a to skip to the next dialog line
at first studios did it to artificially increase play time with almost 0 resources required
but then it turned out it actually sells the game so why bother to make an actually fun game (which is hard) when you can just recycle stories
t. a non-knower but it seems to make sense enough
get the frick out of here story-gay
learn to read books w/o pictures and realize no video game will ever do a better job at telling a story than a book would, you know the one media with a single purpose to do exactly that
what if i want audiovisual storytelling? what if i want interactive audiovisual storytelling?
this is a rehash of every planescape torment thread, guess what dipshit i have blood meridian on my shelf but i don't want to read it (i tried) because prose bores me. it's not a matter of technical difficulty, i majored in philosophy, it's just boring to read. experiences where i actually interact with a world with music, art direction, voice acting, mechanical challenge interacting with the plot, etc. is just more exciting
i also don't understand the appeal of an rpg with a shit story or setting. it's a ROLEplay game, the appeal is playing "pretend" in a fictional world where you take on the role of one of its inhabitants, what's the point if that world is unconvincing and hollow?
>So bring on your clubs and parties, your acrobats and magicians, your daredevils, jet cars, motorcycle helicopters, your sex and heroin, more of everything to do with automatic reflex. If the drama is bad, if the film says nothing, if the play is hollow, sting me with the Theremin, loudly. I'll think I'm responding to the play, when it's only a tactile reaction to vibration. But I don't care. I just like solid entertainment.
>i also don't understand the appeal of an rpg with a shit story or setting.
Because you're moronic, but you made that plenty clear before.
no, i think you need a level of animal stupidity to enjoy that stuff. like
implies
The point of RPGs was never what you think it is.
>learn to read books w/o pictures and realize no video game will ever do a better job at telling a story than a book would
Because people like you won't allow video games to be imaginative or evocative.
god i hope the ludologist asshats don't win, i would almost entirely lose interest in vidya
>a book would, you know the one media with a single purpose to do exactly that
this dude thinks narrative film has no reason to exist
disco elysium mogs your kind
>Unfortunately plebs prefer "kill bad guy, collect loot, repeat" much more than interesting stories that make you think. That's why Fallout 3 and 4 sold much better than Fallout 1 and NV, that's why BG2 sold better than Arcanum, that's why BG3 is GOTY.
This is all really dumb shit. Fallout 3 and 4 were console games made much later and offered to a far larger audience, NV sold well, Arcanum wasn't marketed very much and had no IP and previous game to build on, GOTY is a meaningless label when so few big RPGs are released.
People don't care about Planescape because they want some 'G' in their RPG.
Planescape is an elaborate visual novel. A predecessor to Disco Elysium.
>that's why BG2 sold better than Arcanum
BG2 is a better game and Arcanum is much more combat focused.
>npcs boil down to "lol quirky random one liners"
Kino
>devs couldn't think of a way to engage with the world, so they roadblock you with that stupid gold collection
That is along with Morrowind "frick off till you level up" one of the best CRPG game design decisions. Having progress gated behind gold gives you the reason to explore the world instead of rushing the main quest. Compare to Skyrim, there is a world ending dragon out there and you are the only one able to stop him, how anybody remotely sane would stop his quest to slay Alduin in order to collect 10 bear pelts? Skyrim was chosen because it is free roam game, and design choices being against idea of free roam are especially stupid, but same can be said about mamy games, why care about sidequest X while you urgently have to cure yourself from tadpole/being watcher, chase a god before he shits up reincarnation cycle and so on.
>FR
>generic
sort of the point but thankyou for telling everyone there is literally no reason to actually take you seriously. Im playing it right now and while i have my moderate to severe criticisms of it compared to 1 not a single one of them are any of the non-issues OP shat out
The point was to be as exciting as watching the paint dry?
>getting "excited" by an RPG
>role playing games, the notably slow-burn and cerebral genre should be "exciting"
not doing a good job of making it look like you even want to beat the ADHD allegations
>i am mature because i don't have fun playing games
>i'm not interested means it's not interesting
smgdmfh on god
>generic fantasy
You didn't pay attention.
>One of the main goal of the Harpers is to make sure technological progress is halted, up to and including actively killing off inventors and scientists.
It's a setting of a forced Medieval stasis.
I couldn't force myself to get past the Spellhold. It was a slog.
>below 2 hours long sequence
>a slog
you zoomers really have the attention span of a goldfish
It takes longer the first time around. Shame, because the underdark is the best content in the game.
>ignores arguments for why it's a slog
>"fricking zoomers and attention span"
go take your pills
mad cuz you know I'm right
If I'm playing a story-rich game then I expect said story(and characters) to be at least tolerable to sit through, not the diarrhea that is the first few chapters, which main purpose is to try to engage and immerse the player. I'd rather put my 100+ hours somewhere else.
do it then
pic unrelated
>Decide to play BG1/2
>Bro don't play EE bro, its slop bro
>Neera and Rassad end up being the best companions
>SoD's Irenicus ends up being miles more interesting than BG2 Irenicus
>Neera and Rassad end up being the best companions
>Neera
Ah a man of cultur-
>Rasaad
LMAO
yeah I know what you mean folks, if you understand the rules of DnD and how are these beasts uses their attributes to challange your party it can be almost predictable to defeat, but you know what I mean in terms of challenge without doing hundreds of pointless side quests to get more XP.
>catacombs
not that I'm having problems now, I'm just remembering the old time in that fricking scenario, oh how I hate it, totally unfair and a punch in the balls if you don't prepare enough potions.
> adventurer statues, as a hint, but that may not be obvious for a first playthrough. They're hard if it's your first time fighting them, but again, you can trivialize them with either a low level spell, or a common potion.
yeah I hear you bro, is like that's one of the times I learned how different is BG from games like Diablo, you just can't go full Rambo even you have 2 tanks (as I did my first time) because those frickers will rape your ass in miliseconds, kind of funny. One thing I always hate of the BG Universe is how expensive are the potions in the first half of the game and then they are so cheap but they give so low hp that is like waisting a slot.
For me, the version of the Beamdog BG1 EE (with dragonspear and one if the multiple HQ portrayal mod) is giving me a hole new experience after like...10 years at least, I kind of remind some parts, but man, with the changes in the UI it feels like a new gameplay.
I'm in Nashkel, just beggining the journey, killed that moron hag trying to killed once you just enter to the bar (stupid point from the creators to bring an useless sicario against a complete party, even in an early stage).
Again, playing as a Cleric, not interested in dual, but want to be 50/50 warrior and healer, want to check a good warhammer or so. First time doing that kind of character in a BG game.
>Personally, I generally always explore the whole world map as soon as I'm able to for fun, then I do the Nashkel mines, then the bandit camp, then Cloakwood, then Baldur's Gate and the rest of the story,
That's a pretty good point sir, but my question was almost retorical, is possible to beat the game just going full main quest mode? not like a speedrun which is pretty stupid for these type of games, just wondering what do you think?
Of all the criticisms you could make of BG2 I'm not sure if there not being a sensical evil route really should be one of them. What else would it be besides taking Bhaal's place as the new lord of murder isn't really like being an butthole who still saves the world or whatever.
No, it's not. Other than Dorn, who is absolute shit, both of the new companions in BG1 are quite good.
They only feel like that because all the other companions in BG1 have no dialoge events or personal quests.
by "all the other companions" you surely cant mean all of them in the game in total because unless youve genuinely forgotten them then everyone in this thread knows full well youre talking shit about no personal quests.
You literally recruit most companions by way of them offering their personal quest.
>You literally recruit most companions by way of them offering their personal quest.
>Quayle - No
>Imoen - No
>Xan - No
>Tiax - No
>Alora - No
>Coran - No
>Yeslick - No
>Branwen - No
>Shar-Teel - No
>Viconia - No
>Ajantis - No
>Garrick - No
>Faldorn - No
>Skie - No
Really - "most?" And then you have Xzar, Montaron, Jaheira, and Khalid, who all have the same quest - going to the Nashkel Mines.
>Branwen - No
don't even know what you are talking about
but Branwen arguably does have a quest though
No, no she doesn't.
who turned her to stone and who is one of the required enemies to defeat to progress the plot. I understand why he wrote "arguably" but you dont seem to.
at this point whether youre the person who said it or not is irrelevant- the original point i called out was that "no other companions have personal quests" so now were just moving goalposts
You claimed that "most" companions have personal quests, while in fact it's not even half.
And Branwen doesn't have a quest, she outright knows who turned her to stone, and doesn't press the issue further.
>the original point i called out was that "no other companions have personal quests"
It was actually
>all the other companions in BG1 have no dialoge events or personal quests
Which is half true as none of the party members in BG1 react to anything going on in the world. Nor do they participate in talks. Half wrong only if you count rudimentary shit like kill a wyvern or do main quest as a real companion quest.
>Which is half true as none of the party members in BG1 react to anything going on in the world. Nor do they participate in talks.
There is a small handful of events when they do, but they're often extremely hidden:
>Branwen and Tranzig (the only obvious one)
>Coran and Brielbara (Cuckolded her husband with him, and gave Coran a bastard child. You only find this out if he's in the party.)
>Xzar, Montaron and the Sorcerer Sundries (There's a handful of mages on the third floor performing a magic ritual. They're hostile, unless you have those two with you, in which case it turns out they are their supervisors.)
>Khalid, Jaheira, and the Harpers (They walk up to you in Baldur's Gate for a chat. Special conversations if you have K&J with you).
>Kagain and the Wrecked Caravan (Special dialogue if you talk with the survivor with him in the party).
That's all that I can recall.
frickin swear to god people just say anything about games
I admit, I forgot about that one. But the rest in
and
is on point. I was even generous, since Safana's "quest" doesn't even show up in the Quest Log.
you are an absolute moron
NPC quests in BG1, the few that there are, are barely noticeable.
BG2 party quests involve several scripted events, (often) new areas and valuable rewards. The Beamdog party members from BG1 behave like BG2 NPCs. That makes them stand out unreasonably positively.
A typical BG1 party member is like Viconia. There is at most one scene that introduces them and the rest of the 50+ hours of playtime the party member is like a unit from an RTS. Beamdogshit reacts to the world and events like a character from BG2.
Minsc, Dynaheir, and Edwin all share the same quest.
Kivan has his own.
Kagain as well.
Xzar, Montaron, Jaheira and Khalid all want to go to the Nashkel Mines
Eldoth wants to get to Skie.
And Safana has her treasure hunt.
That's it. So, in reality - Kagain, Safana, Eldoth, Kivan.
I don't usually post in moron threads but you got me. 8/10 bait.
BG2 is the Halo/WoW/Goldeneye/FF7 of its type. Moderately ok game that was the first that these people played in the genre. BG1 is superior in every way except length. D&D has always been best when played at low levels because the dynamics are just superior.
When you start making the villains of your games demons and gods instead of those who work for them, or are trying to become them/destroy them, it starts to suck.
Examine the difference between PoE1 and PoE2 plots for reference.
>BG1 is superior in every way except length.
BG1 is painful to play from a usability standpoint. The engine upgrades alone make BG2 the far superior game.
>How is this considered the best CRPG?
It was the best CRPG from 2000-2023.
Now BG3 has taken its place, no shame in losing to your kin.
>make yourself immune to time stop
>both you and boss enemy uses time stop
>you both fight in suspended time
>time resumes to normal so you have to dodge each others prepped spells
>game lets you create up to 4 duplicate canon fodder versions of yourself to spam spells while the real you prepares a massive one
>can fight like a dungeon boss by hurling fodder summons at enemies while you prepare busted buffs and shields
>your fodder clones can also use your summons creating a mini army on a dime
>summons also can do more than just dps and have their own movesets and spells
No other game lets me pull fun shit like that. And if there is PLEASE fricking tell me
Did BG1 original have the highlight button? I can't remember fully, but I don't think it did.
Now that you mention it, I don’t think it did. It made finding things like the ring of wizardry at the FAI quite challenging. You could use the console to print the X Y coordinates of your mouse cursor and that’s it.
This thread is so bad lmao, what is wrong with biodrones
It reminds me of a bethestard thread.
The series becomes much more pessimistic in nature once you look up the fate of various companions.
>Baldur's Gate
>Ajantis Ilvastarr - Accidentally killed by CHARNAME (Baldur's Gate II)
>Alora - Unknown
>Branwen - Unknown
>Coran - Murdered by the Cult of the Absolute ("Mindbreaker" Comic Series)
>Dynaheir - Murdered by Irenicus (Baldur's Gate II)
>Edwin Odesseiron - Lost his powers, got permanently turned into a woman and a waitress in Waterdeep (Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal)
>Eldoth Kron - Unknown, you find his gravestone in Baldur's Gate (Baldur's Gate III)
>Faldorn - Killed by CHARNAME (Baldur's Gate II)
>Garrick - Unknown
>Imoen - Set up her own Thieves' Guild in Waterdeep
>Jaheira - Alive and Active (Baldur's Gate III)
>Kagain - Unknown
>Khalid - Murdered by Irenicus (Baldur's Gate II)
>Kivan - Unknown
>Minsc - Alive and Active (Baldur's Gate III)
>Montaron - Killed by Harpers (Baldur's Gate II)
>Quayle - Unknown
>Safana - Killed by CHARNAME (Baldur's Gate II)
>Shar-Teel Dosan - Unknown
>Skie Silvershield - Murdered by Irenicus (Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear)
>Tiax - Murdered by Irenicus (Baldur's Gate II)
>Viconia DeVir - Alive and Active (Baldur's Gate III)
>Xan - Unknown
>Xzar - Killed by Harpers (Baldur's Gate II)
>Yeslick Orothiar - Unknown
Is spamming magic missile is the only way to kill greater wolfwere?
No.
Wands of Fire absolutely rape it
I looked up the og BG 1 credits for the first time
>Tiax remixed song plus using iconic voice clips
>the goofy ass developer quotes
>concept art in the background with '90s graphic transitions
>message at the end thanking Gigax
Holy fricking SOVL
Were it not for the Order, the Gods would surely smite OP for his sins
It isn't medieval nor generic.
yeah its impossible to get the originals on modern pc for me because beamdog muddied the water so hard
You can get them from the internet archive for free. I'm sure you could buy the discs on ebay too.
You can switch off the Beamdog content with a single mod. Then you need to change a graphics setting in the menu (outlines, I think) and the games even look like the old ones.
But you still get to keep the QOL improvements and more character options that Beamdog added. Which is good, because those are fine. Honestly, you don't even need the mod. Just stay away from Neera, Dorn, Rasaad and Hexxat. And Siege of Dragonspear.
Not even close. There is no comparison. The difference between the two is vast. It is extremely disingenuous to say all it takes is a mod and you have "the originals".
Such as?
Many of their "fixes" are game changing and truly up for debate on whether or not they were actually bugs. Entire play-styles have been destroyed. Wild Mages no longer get to stack their shields. Equalizer doesn't apply its bonus from the offhand to the main-hand anymore. Druid Werewolf Form lost its stats. They completely changed the stealth system for Shadowdancer, which I think is the most egregious. In the original games there is no cooldown on stealth unless you fail a check. Just initiating stealth doesn't proc the cooldown, you actually have to initiate stealth and fail the check, then the cooldown starts. This means a skilled Ranger, Stalker, Thief or Fighter/Thief type character can initiate stealth, flank an enemy, backstab, walk away to cover and then immediately re-engage stealth. So you can successively chain backstabs with no delay. In the EE, you can't do that unless you're a Shadowdancer or you game the system by micromanaging the CD. You do this by swapping weapons in the quick bar or something, waiting for the CD and then backstabbing and then you've got to keep that timing up through the whole encounter, so good luck using more than one stealth unit. Stealth in the originals is so smooth, it is awesome. Back in the day, solo thief or thief derivative, was one of the most popular playstyles because it was so fricking slick. Solo thief or thief derivative is super lame in the EE. There really are just a frick ton of other examples. They've spent almost a decade changing the game at this point. I will concede that there are some changes that are nice (base druid shifts are better) and I actually do like the LoB difficulty, but none of them are worth the destroyed playstyles that many of us used to love dearly. Even the tab to highlight isn't that important to me. It's immersion breaking to rely on that and it actually helps you appreciate the hand drawn backgrounds to actually search for containers by hand.
I believe there are a few different ways to incorporate some of the things like LoB mode into the originals. I found some stuff awhile ago. Anyway, you could just look through patch notes and find tons of stuff they've changed. I really forget all of them because there are so many. Most of it really boils my blood because this is a single player RPG. "Fixing" some of that shit is literally just turning down he fun meter for no good reason.
Oh yes, they changed Doom stacking and Greater Malison stacking. You used to have multiple ways to reduce enemy saves in an effective way. The thing about it is that as a single player experience, you sre the DM, so if you think it's cheese to stack Doom or Greater Malison, then you can just not do it. The whole point of these games is a D&D simulator. Reducing the PC's ability to modify their experience in game is just stupid. Beamdog making those changes is acting like they are Karen making an "intervention" on the "addicted" players. Fricking stupid.
The dialogues are only in relation to Beamdog's OC donut steals. If you run a vanilla party you won't see any of them, and I'm pretty sure Neera doesn't even have any party banter.
Items aren't that big of a deal either. They added some +1s and +2s to weapon types that didn't have them in BG1 and added a lot of gimmicky items to BG2 where the best item is a robe that has Chaos Shield active while equipped. All the truly broken items are og bioware.
How do I kill Firkraag? Is spamming cloudkill from a distance will work?
Reduce his hit points to zero or below.
The cheesiest way I've found (besides whacking him with the silver sword until a vorpal hit happens) is to blind him. Dragons can't see shit when blind, not even the tiny radius enemies normally get, probably because they're so big.
Cloudkill from out of sight will work.
You can lay a bunch of snares underneath him so when he turns hostile, they trigger and he takes a ton of damage.
A hilarious option is to lower his magic resistance, then his saving throws with doom and greater malison and then turn him into a squirrel with polymorph other. He's not immune to the spell so it's technically possible but he has good saving throws so it might take a few reloads.
Or you could just y'know attack him until he dies. Thrown on some buffs (especially remove fear), get some summons to take some hits and add a bit of extra damage, spread your guys around him so they don't all get hit by the one wing buffet and use your mages to strip his buffs. He's tough but not unbeatable for a party late in SoA.
Unmodded? Greater Malison, doom, feeblemind
if feeblemind lands he will do nothing until he is dead
Why has not a single person explained how killing dragons in BG actually works yet? Do any of this game's fans even know how to play it?
What do you mean, I explained it fully. Reduce HP to zero.
??? are you blind and/or illiterate?
You lower resistance thrice, use malison, use doom, feeble mind. you win
Stack relevant resistances and try to buff the team with at least haste and anything else you like. Keep the big health pots on everyone. This is the time to use 1x/day items like the zerker horn, the spider, the magic missile necklaces, etc. Spread out so his dispel magic, wing buffet and fire breath don't wreck the whole team. Approach with summons, these will absorb his initial attacks, but keep your team spread out and far enough away to avoid the dispel. The dispel will branch off of the area hit, so this means you need lots of space. Use the spell breach to cut through his stoneskin. One or two heavy frontliners are good, but if you can tank him with summons that is better. Each frontliner needs to be at least 90° away from the other (on clock, attackers are at 9 o'clock & 6 o'clock). The archer kit really shines here. Mages can spam magic missile to do damage. Chromatic Orb is also good, and if high enough level, may kill him outright. Keep the cleric back and ready to dispel any disablers. Basically everyone on the team should be way back and attacking from range in some way unless they are optimized for frontline combat. If he knocks your frontline out get ready to run around and kite until you can get your line back up. The last thing you want is to be bunched up. Keep haste pots ready in case he dispels your team. After a good fight, he will go down. You can take him out with magic too, but it is not necessary. Reduce his magic resist with Lower Resistance and dispel his protections and use your save or die spell of choice. If you turn him to stone, you can Stone to Flesh him and then keep repeating that cycle over as an experience farm cheese. Thief traps really shine here even if you don't cheese him outright. Just having your thief place them out if sight near the stairs when the battle starts is good to do between arrows. Assassin poison is brutal against basically everything. Bounty Hunter traps really shine here in all forms.
Cont...
Be ready for his illusions with a dispel invisibility, dispel illusion or true sight or something like it. A lot of people will say that stacking AC doesn't matter, but it is definitely effective. If your frontline is taking too much damage, then put a good shield on them and wear the best armor you can find. For a lot of the game unenchanted full plate with a ring of protection is the best armor combo because you get the saving throw bonuses, but if you know the type of damage (slashing, piercing, crushing) your enemy is doing and you need an edge, then some enchanted armors can be better. A lot of this should be common sense, but I realize it's easy to take all of this for granted as I've been playing the game since it came out. You really don't need anything special to beat him, but you do need to have a few levels under your belt after having left the prologue and you do need some decent gear, but consumables like potions and scrolls can take you very far. If you employ some basic combat strategies like I previously mentioned, then you will kill him.
Is that better?
I forgot to say. The thief laying traps in the back is your failsafe. If the line falls, then he will bum rush your squishies and shred them down quickly, but if you have traps waiting for him, then they might actually kill him when he inevitably gets close enough. If you fight Firkraag while he has Conster too, then you just need to take out Conster first. An Inquisitor here, such as Keldorn, is invaluable. A berserker is as well. Any fighter can whittle a mage down as long as he can last long enough and all illusions are dispelled. Prot from Magic Weapons and the like only last 4 rounds and stoneskins will eventually go down too. Even without Breach. If you have elemental damage on your weapon, then it will proc through stoneskin, but not PfMW, this is how you interrupt casting and this is why assassin poison is so strong. I could go on for days, but it really just comes down to understanding the items, spells and abilities that you have and executing their use in an effective way.
Oh yes, I forgot to say. Normal weapons will damage a mage protected by PfMW. So if a mage like Conster throws that up, then swap to normal weapons (always keep a set of normal weapons in your pack) and shred through the stoneskins until you hit paydirt (blood). Once you make it past the skins, he's probably a dead man walking. Also, there are a few really good mage disablers that a mage or cleric can toss out right away. Power Word: Silence is the best, especially if you have a casting time reduction item equipped. Druids have Dolorous Decay, which has a chance to totally incapacitate them for a decent period of time and I believe it is a casting time of 1. I believe the lower level wizard spells Blind and Deafness are worth a shot sometimes. Clerics have the Silence 15' Radius spell. The longsword Namarra +2 has that spell too, but it's instant cast and I believe it's 3x/day. Ring of the Ram and any of the other instant use damage items can sometimes be worth it to try to lay down some damage before they can get a spell off.
Ugh. Inquisitor Dispel is good to use on disabled teammates too. I forgot to mention the dragon fear. Mages and Clerics, this is where you shine. Mages and Cleric/Mages can keep it in a spell sequencer along in case the initial buff gets dispelled. In fact, this is one of the reasons Cleric/Mage makes a more effective battle support than a pure Cleric. The instant cast cleric spells are super strong in fights against monsters like dragons and demons who can disable you.
I've never understood telling someone exactly how to play a game. Is it just to show off your knowledge?
Anon asked how to kill Firkraag and the other anons didn't really say how you do it the old fashioned way and another anon pointed out that nobody really answered the question. So, I tried to give an in depth answer on how to kill Firkraag using your entire party with measures and counter-measures that would enable just about anyone to pull it off. It just so happens BG2 is a pretty deep game with a lot of options and there is a big difference between optimal strategy/tactics and suboptimal. I wouldn't say I'm trying to show off, no. I wouldn't even consider anything I said particularly stunning. This is all pretty basic shit. I don't know how much any of these newbies know, so you've got to get through the basics if you want to help them out.
I just don't like spoonfeeding people in general. I get it that you were mostly doing it to spite the baiting moron trying to get a rise out of "fans".
Okay, well you'll have to forgive me for spoon-feeding the noobs. I guess I didn't see the sign, lol. I haven't been on these forums for a long time, so I'm probably a little over-eager because I'm excited to think about BG2 again.
You weirdos are all the same. You can't be satisfied with an elf or something like that, you need all your games to have a race selection like this:
>Human
>Sharkgirl
>Jumping cactus
>Marionette
>Fire elemental
>Giant intelligent friendly talking spider
Sounds based, and they all get unique gear and abilities too.
>"wah wah, why do people want to play as fantastical creatures in a fantastical setting?!"
Hobbits, elfs, half orcs, gnome are also fantastical. All of which are in baldurs gate 2
Fantastical my ass, they just slapped a single physical feature onto a human and called it a day. Do you find blacks and asians fantastical, too?
Hell, they don't even bother to try and make their culture skins at least somewhat interesting or developed beyond human's. At best, there's a couple of adjectives and occasional vague handwavy reference to it. If the race could easily be replaced by a human, then what's the point of adding it beyond shitty fluff?
>Boring basic fantasy is when to fancy races
Idiot. The problem with BGs setting is that Faerune is sterile of any kind of real sense of culture, tradition, ideology or vibe outside of "some boomer made his own Camellot mythology to larp as Elminster in".
How do people of Amn look at the world?
How do Baldurians imagine their country to be?
Do Waterdavians have separate traditions from the rest of the coast?
Simple steps for good worldbuilding just don't exist in Faerune. Tyranny's setting for example, which doesn't even have other sentient species other than humans, is way more interesting just due to how it handles culture.
>How do people of Amn look at the world
As a gaggle of broke-ass barbarians perpetually envious of the immense wealth and culture Amnians enjoy.
>How do Baldurians imagine their country to be
The legacy of one of Faerun's great explorers, and a place where men of talent and determination can rise in the world.
>Do Waterdavians have separate traditions from the rest of the coast
Well, for starters, their rulers maintain complete anonymity, save for the Open Lord, who acts as both the public face of the ruling council and as the state's chief diplomat. Perhaps in imitation of this reticence, fashion is very muted compared to other realms. The massive hodge-podge of temples to varying faiths also leads to a large number of officially-recognized holidays.
Tethyrans were a common sight in the Gate long before you learned anything about it, secondary.
It's been referred to as the Gate since the Aughts, frickhead. And tethyrans are explicitly described as dusky-skinned. Try harder for your weak-ass gotcha moment.
>I’ve played tabletop since the 90s and both games since they came out and never once heard this phrase until BG3
Did you?
Here's a native of Trademeet, and a halfling to boot.
I honestly don't understand how people see some kind of african here.
It's like I'm looking at some magical picture.
Anon... that's fricking Tina Turner. They used real-life portraits, and painted them over.
Wow, they butchered her.
Oh wow, that means Viconia has white skin because she was based on Czech erotic model.
>Oh wow, that means Viconia has white skin because she was based on Czech erotic model.
You have hoist him on his own petard. Rekt.
Yeah same. Blew my mind that people saw her this way.
Don't get me wrong, her skin is clearly a little bronzed but I just assumed it was because she spent a good deal of time outside adventuring.
>sfw no romance mod
Maybe it's better this way.
Here's a native to Amn as well, and a member of an ancient noble family.
Here's a man born in the hills slightly east of Baldur's Gate.
Here's a Dwarf from the Mithrill Hall.
He travelled South to learn the ways of the long death and appears to be surrounded by fire.
It's obviously just a tan.
Here's a Gnome, and member of the same clan as Jan Jansen.
Too bad his portrait is Lawrence Fishburn. Oh, you didn't know the NWN portraits are all real life people. Whoops.
Also cute that you're using "Chulthans are the blacks of the setting", when human ethnicities were a 3rd Edition invention.
How many of you play with SCS?
Nope. SCS is a joke. Now if that guy actually released a standalone AI package, then we would be talking. Until then, I'm not wasting my time with that BS.
Its modular. You can literally just install the AI component and nothing else. I think you might be moronic.
You're wrong. Read the Readme again. It clearly changes more than just AI.
It's my favorite mod, I think it makes the game so much more fun.
my brainlet self finally installed SCS for 1 and 2 and I started my run yesterday, will post results
just got up to nashkel mine using the basic party of Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Dynaheir and Branwen. I think in BG2 though I will need to build a proper munchkin party, maybe keeping just imoen.
it hasn't been too bad yet and I already really like that enemies outside of visual range can track you (as opposed to forgetting you exist when you escape visual range). Packs of creatures or especially humanoids, will engage as their full group, rather than waiting to get CQB'd one at a time by a single tanky archer. They also swap targets intelligently, so you can't just lock all their archers onto your tank then take free shots with a bunch of unarmored mages.
I think I included most of the tactical challenges, might have pussied out of tactical durlag's, so we'll see how that goes, I hear bandit camp is one of the first real tests.
I'm not really into the whole "muh metropolitan homosexual devs have dared to do what everyone else is doing in their games" argument, because who the frick cares about BG or FR to begin with, but this is something I've noticed too. These people treat "PoC" as some kind of monolith and basically operate on the one drop rule where a Persian is a Nigerian is an Indian. All darkies.
Pic related are Tabaxi, you cretin. 😀 And this is 1st Edition.
I told you Chulthans as being "the designated Africans" didn't appear until 3rd Edition.
Not him, but he actually is right.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tabaxi_(tribe)
Sure, but that was an error made by the author, who read the name in other sourcebooks, thought that tabaxi were human, and included them in his own book. "Tabaxi" since 1st Edition were a race.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-orc
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-elf
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-ogre
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-drow
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-sea_elf
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-dragon
I think I made my point.
>error made by the author
What author?
>my point
I mean, if there are no originating geographical nations and nations are old as hell, why would skin colour have balanced out at some point over thousands of years of intermixture. Obviously this is just people applying contemporary demographics without thought to world building.
>why would skin colour have balanced out at some point over thousands of years of intermixture.
Sure... such as this man, a native of Icewind Dale. Marvel at his marble skin.
And mind you I specifically show you REALLY FRICKING OLD characters, because you'd label anything 3rd Edition as "pozzed"... even though your sperging about Chult and ethnicities is rooted in 3rd Edition ("Races of Faerun", to be exact).
Are you being purposefully dense? I'm not saying everyone should be white, rather, they should all be tan after thousands of years. Like, you can't have a multiracial society without immigration from mother countries, unless people live within enclaves and don't interbreed. You seem really defensive about this, but it's just poor world building. You have to actually think about why people have different skin tones in the real world.
>Pic related are Tabaxi, you cretin. 😀 >And this is 1st Edition.
>I told you Chulthans as being "the designated Africans" didn't appear until 3rd Edition.
I am away from home and can quote it for you tonight, but the book I posted earlier is 2nd edition, and it explicitly states “the Tabaxi, not to be confused with the cat-man race of the same name, …”
Never mind, another anon posted the excerpt above. Cheers.
And this is 2nd Edition. Also, they're from Maztica, not Chult, genius. 😀
Only there's no not!Africa in the setting. Icewind Dale, a frozen wasteland, is right next to, and on the same equatorial level, as Anauroch, a scorching desert. Humanities origins are being isekaid en masse as slaves by a reptillian empire, hence why nations didn't develop along ethnicities.
Plus, the present day FR is a massive "graveyard of empires", where there have been dozens of continent-spanning empires, so mass migrations have already happened numerous times, including via mass slave trading.
How are there races at all, then? Shouldn't everyone have blended together?
Or how about an entire catalogue of mutt offshoots?
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Creatures_with_the_dragonblood_subtype
Also, not every race can interbreed.
Why black dwarves though...?
That's something that carried over from early FR lore, where Underdark races - drow, duergar etc. - have brown, copper, and black skin. See pic related.
No, I mean black dwarves. Not duergar.
Duergar are bald with white beards.
Off topic I guess but frick I love that 'Forgotten Realms' title. I looks like it smells of old but well kept books telling of adventure and wonder. There's legit something magical about it.
Fun fact: in the very, very old lore, ALL humans on Toril were isekai'd onto the planet from an "Age of Mythology" version of Earth by an ancient reptilian empire (the one from "Neverwinter Nights"). Hence why they're "Forgotten Realms" - because Earth forgot about their existence.
Should I join the Vampires or the Shadow Thieves?
The shadow thieves, vampires content was cut and is objectively worse.
It wasn't exactly "cut", it was butchered due to the fact Bodhi being Irenicus's sister was a last minute addition. After deciding to keep Imoen alive, instead of her being killed by CHARNAME in Spellhold, they now needed another person to take her soul. Hence the retcon. Hence also why they quickly needed to cut out a huge chunk of the vampire guild content, including everything in Act IV.
Also, as someone working at Larian - the next big patches will introduce a new playable race, as well as restored companion content.
>a new playable race
That being..?
Aasimar
>humans but with wings
Wow, that's so kewl.
Hey I also work at Larian! Did Swen try to get you to bang his girlfriend too? Shit is so tedious.
Are you surprised. He's too busy fricking your mom.
Good for her! Sectogenarians don't get much action.
>as well as restored companion content.
Honestly I've been putting off getting BGIII solely based on the amount of cut content I've heard about. Was really hoping for it all to be patched back in or finished off for a 'GotY' Edition, but I've heard they're not planning on releasing anything like that.
Except Rassad actually is an S tier character, easy. In the first game he runs faster than everything else, so he can endlessly kits with slings, and then in the second he gain immune from everything dodge everything monk scaling.
>start a trilogy run
>roll a gnome with quayle's portrait
>get to bg2
>recruit aerie
>remember she can romance gnomes after i picked her up
>start her romance
>take her virginity
>knock her up in tob
>all while looking exactly like her beloved uncle quayle
What amazes me is that the story side quests are far more interesting than the main story
Is it worth modding out the Enhanced Edition stuff?
I'm one of the, apparently, handful of people who actually READ the datamined files, and 90% of the "cut content" posts are complete bullshit.
Let's take a very well-known example - Helia. Just listening to the audio files lets you know she was cut very early on in development, before the first public beta, back when the Origins were also their own narrators when you played as them.
The "Upper City will be fully explorable" is based solely on one poorly worded sentence in one update post.