>Players in some countries did not like Fallout and Cain's later games because there was no right way to play them, they frequently wanted to know what they were supposed to do and how they were supposed to rescue Tandi. Cain does not elaborate on the specific countries. There was no right way to rescue Tandi, if you even wanted to save her, apparently that angered some players.
Do you believe Cain's story? Which countries would it be? I would like to say Japan, but I cannot imagine more than a handful of players buying a game like Fallout in Japan.
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Cain's gay
>no right to way to play them
what a load of horse shit, players figured out quickly what works and what doesn't when it came to character builds and story progression
also what fricking freedom ? Fallout 1 is fairly linear
For example, you could rescue fricking tandi in a bunch of ways you avatarposting slav c**t
99% certain he said it was Japan in some video. It's only logical, due to them having their JRPGs where you just play through the narratives.
>Do you believe Cain's story?
Yes, in as much as someone told him that this was the case. Do I actually believe that all or even most of the people in specific countries would just all have the same feelings about a specific piece of game design? No, that's obvious bullshit.
>Which countries would it be?
Presumably somewhere in northern or western Europe, given that the person reporting this to Cain would probably have learned this on an English-language forum. Fallout 1 was originally only released (officially) in North America and Europe, as far as I know and find online. I don't think anyone in Japan would've played it until many years later after F3/NV/4 came out there. Japan has always had a weird relationship with American-produced works that feature nuclear weapons anyway. I can't imagine there was a big market for Fallout 1 or 2.
>99% certain he said it was Japan in some video.
He doesn't seem to specify a country anywhere in the video, but this links to the specific part that OP is mentioning. Video link with timestamp (5 minutes in):fall
Ah yes. freedom. In a game where you quite literally have limited amount of time to play before the game ends because you took too long.
Youre missing the point
>having an end goal limits your freedom in methods of getting to such goal
Wow, all these games praised for their freedom are actually slave games? Deus Ex, Bloodlines, Arcanum... oh right if it's not timed the it doesn't count.
>I spent over 100 days traveling around in the desert looking for the Nuka Cola Truck because I'm a israelite and the mental image of all those bottle caps just laying there in the dirt gave me emotional damage.
It's literally the only way I can imagine someone actually running out of time in Fallout 1.
Imagine someone trusting the water merchants because 9/11 hadn’t happened yet and then getting their vault culturally enriched
You know, that's weird, because the original Dragon Warrior is indecipherable without a guide.
yeah japs hate freedom. They literally comment on open world rpgs "so this is one of those games where i can do what ever i like"
They aren't used to it but there is a growing fandom for western pc games over there.
who gives a frick
>hating freedom
Good goyim, let the chosen ones do all the decisions for you!
Does anyone understand this post?
Sure. It's a top-down image of 2013 Audi TT RS Coupe (1, footnote). The driver's seat, with steering column, is labeled "Wrpg" as in "Western Role Playing Game". The front passenger's seat is labeled "Jrpg" as in "Japanese Role Playing Game". The directional movement and acceleration of the car is controlled by using the pedals and steering wheel accessible by sitting in the driver's seat. The image compares Western Role Playing Games to being in the driver's seat of a car, likely because the poster wants to imply that Western Role Playing Games allow the player a greater degree of control over the pacing and direction of a video game's narrative or action, especially when compared to Japanese Role Playing Games.
The text of the post contains a greentext quote:
>hating freedom
which is not contained in the OP linked directly above the quote. Thus, the poster is likely intending the greentext as a shortened paraphrasing of the OP text. It is most likely deliberately reductive, to boost readership through conciseness and also possibly anger and bait replies from those considering the paraphrase inaccurate.
Below the greentext, the poster addresses readers (plural) as "goyim", a modern Hebrew and Yiddish term used by israeli people for a non-israeli people. By using "Good goyim," they are intending their post to be read as if spoken by a modern israeli person to non-Jews. Following that, their use of the term "chosen ones" is likely meant to be understood as "Jews" that would "do all the decisions for you!" This is most likely meant as an implication, not necessarily about role playing video games but perhaps society at large, that israelites control the actions of others. The poster's communicates this way likely due to their conspiratorial belief in a secret israeli cabal ruling society (including the video game industry).
(1) Note the spoiler on the rear. Page 32: https://media.audiusa.com/assets/documents/original/1387-news-2013-audi-tt-tts-ttrs-media-kit.pdf
Does anyone understand this post?
I do.
LIAR! LIAR!! LIAR!!!
bad bot
>(1) Note the spoiler on the rear. Page 32:
Can you tag this next time? Wtf bro.
Based
Based on what?
Warpigs drivers seat jarpigs passenger seat
How did anybody get tripped up by this? God this board is full of mouth dribbling morons and I'm sad because the chances are you're all not underageb& and can vote/drive legally.
Kek, the worst guy I know when it came to hating freedom in games was israeli. But he hated having it for himself, he wanted everything as railroaded as possible, even in tabletop RPGs, and he got really pissy when anyone had any creative ideas that might move activities off the most direct path, while just wanting to grind, grind, grind himself.
But he didn't grind in real life, he was a NEET who had given up on every career path and hobby for being too hard, but angrily insisted on extremely naive ideas about everything despite all evidence.
>ITS DA JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZ!!!!
Dear moron,
If it were Da Joos, why is it just one Joo who does it primarily to himself? What sort of conspiracy is one guy conspiring to keep himself in a cage because he's scared of life?
>If it were Da Joos, why is it just one Joo who does it primarily to himself?
I suggest you read the Old Testament cover to cover for a very detailed answer to this question.
I read it as a kid, but clearly I missed the interpretation you're thinking of.
There's no such thing as a WRPG.
Japanese cars have the steering wheel on the right.
Based
saar please do not be making the fun of the commonwealth manufacturing saar
Now I understand why JRPGs are so much better. Frick I hate driving.
Elaborate
No.
He hates that you have to be 16 to drive.
Who's he?
Damn, so you sayin' this "Dragon Quest" is a better game than Morrowind? Maybe I pick this JRPG up
This one hit too close to home...
why do his thumbnails all look like soijaks
Tim read your comment and it hurt him. He deleted his video and reuploaded it without the "o nions face".
It's funny how /vrpg/ seethes at Tim Cain because he's gay, but he objectively knows more about RPGs than 99% of you.
Most vermin just think that an RPG is whatever the hivemind tells them an RPG is (i.e. even point and click adventures with minimal RPG elements like Disco Elysium).
i don't think it's because he's gay, it's because he made outer worlds.
Outer Worlds may be shit but it's still better than Outer Wilds
really? i haven't played it, but i've consistently heard that outer wilds is good.
Ignore him. Chuddies hate it because the aliens are nonbinary.
everything is binary, it either is or isn't.
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Cain is going to wade into the minefield.
Has always viewed an RPG as a continuum. Especially lately when games are coming out that people say have RPG Mechanics (They never really define what those RPG mechanics are.)
Think of it as a checklist of game features. The more of them you have, the more Cain considers you an RPG. List has an order, but Cain will only give the order when he is done.
First one is, he can make his own character, including naming it. Very important, character creation choices should matter. They shouldn't be super limited, but they should be reflected on in the game. Your class, race, gender, attributes, skills, something in the game should be checking those. Gender could be as basic as changing if people refer to he or she, gender was a bigger deal in some of Cain's games but he thought it was ok as long as it balanced. Some people didn't like that. A lot of games put a lot of effort into character appearance, but if the game doesn't mention that Cain doesn't find it very important. Games of his that did have a lot of appearance features had that because someone else on the team pushed for them.
Once you are playing the character, Cain wants the player character to have a lot of choices on how to make. High level, how you decide to do combat/stealth/dialogue or have companions, or low level (What does your character does moment to moment., do you insult people or try to be nice.)
Third thing is that the story is reacting to your character selection (To a certain degree, doesn't want stuff you decided at the start to dictate too much about the rest) and action in the games.
Fourth thing is nonlinear story. Prefers to do things in the order he wants to do them, go where he wants to go, do what he wants to do. Repeats her prefers player driven story vs. story driven game. Story driven game is a narrative designer dictating to you what happens, doesn't like it. Wants the player to activate the narrative as they come across it.
Fifth, multiple endings. Cain expects different endings, dramatically different endings, ones with his companions and what happened to them.
Leading into story gating and area gating. Wants that based on character choices, not designer choices. Let's say you have a dungeon and you don't want the player going in there right away. Cain is fine with you implementing a key or passphrase the player needs to enter. He is even fine with you not spawning in the npc the player needs to get the key/passphrase from until a certain point in the game or they are in a very hard to find place. What he doesn't like is if the door hard coded to never open until Act III. Cain has played games recently that he liked where he tried to step onto a continuation of the map and it tells him he can't go there yet because of his level or story act. Would be annoying if he went a door and it said you had to be level 10 before walking in. That is the developer slapping you, wants the restrictions embedded in the story.
Similarly, prefers for perks that have preqeqs be on a skill being a certain level or other perks purchased. Dislikes them being level gated. Is OK with them being gated into tiers and you have to buy a certain number of tier 1 perks to get tier 2 perks, which effectively guarantees some perks can't be taken until a certain level. Again, developer imposing on the player instead of the player choosing. This may sound narrow, but think of it as the player seeing choices they making opening up other options vs. developer dictate.
Wants the world to be big enough to support exploration and player choice, as well as adventures that aren't the main story.
That is Cain's checklist. Have all of those, you are an RPG. Take them off one by one, you become a little less of an RPG. Notice the order Cain went in, Systems -----> Story ----->Setting, the opposite of how he tells you to design games. But this is how game's present themselves most often. You are thrust into character creation, then you start playing and learn what kind of story they are being thrust into. Then as you play the game and begin to discover the setting. You may have heard a game blurb of the setting, but now you walk through it and discover it.
Many people disagree on what an RPG is. Some of it is down to how many things on Cain's checklist the game has. Some people say if it misses one it isn't an RPG, some people are fine with some of them being gone but others being gone are red lines. Some people treat it like Cain does, the more of them you have the more of an RPG you are, and vice versa. Some people weight them differently, maybe choices mattering is very important but making your own character isn't that important to them.
You could call them Hard RPGs, Soft RPGs, hardcore RPGs, casual RPGs, Cain considers it all a continuum. Cain doesn't think you should get too hung up on it, the continuum is rarely as set in stone as you think, references and links his D&D Koan. Making a hard line in the sand for RPGs is doomed to fail.
>Is OK with them being gated into tiers and you have to buy a certain number of tier 1 perks to get tier 2 perks
i hate this shit. buying stuff you don't want to get to what you do is awful.
I can fully believe there are players out there who dislike having multiple options to proceed. Especially considering most games have always been designed around "get from a to b" with occasionally "deal with c".
Even critically acclaimed games do this. Like legit tell me where in Half-life you actively have a choice in how to proceed.
Must be a country where there is lockstep conformity, and people's lives are railroaded from cradle to grave.
So, Japan.
But there are lots of JRPGs with freedom, they're just not popular in the west.
How do you know they're even popular in Japan?
My Japanese girlfriend told me
Inflatables don't talk.
You don't even have to go to games with tangible freedom to see this effect. I remember when Witcher 1 came out and Bioware's Social Network forum was still around. Some people genuinely did not like the game because there was no obvious "correct way" to play it in terms of choices and consequences. Regardless of the games in question these people don't actually get what RPGs are intrinsically about.
>obvious "correct way" to play it in terms of choices and consequences.
>people don't actually get what RPGs are intrinsically about.
Think of it as minmaxing the story, and then it's as much roleplaying as minmaxing with mechanics is.
Legitimately, I don't understand why more people don't think this way. Dragon Quest is one of the most freeform JRPG series there is, but the west doesn't seem to think of it this way for whatever reason, and people instead treat it like it's the most generic JRPG ever, when it only seems that way because it isn't story focused like most of the others.
Today is the first day of spring, son
i get frustrated with myself when i play a game that has many lootables. i spend more time checking every desk drawer or locker or backpack than actually playing the game. i lose the story. i dont pay attention to dialogue. i get lost a lot. all because i spent 30 minutes organizing my inventory so i can fit in another couple stimpacks or some shit
Holy shit bg3 was painful for this reason. At this point I’d rather a dungeon just have a single chest with some hand placed unique loot and some gold so I can buy what I want in town. I never want to see RNG loot ever again.
>Japan
I'm sure they played a semi-obscure (especially since he's talking about F1 specifically) PC-only Western RPG over in fricking Japan when they didn't even play BG1-2, or even fricking KotOR. Did it even release in Japan officially to begin with? Cause I highly fricking doubt that. In fact you have to be a fricking zoomie to even consider Japan in this case at all.
>Players in some countries did not like Fallout and Cain's later games because there was no right way to play them
That's not true, there was exactly ONE right way to play Fallout 1 and it's an Agility build
Nice try, I finished the game with dumped agility easily.
I had to restart my first FO1 playthrough because my Agility was only above average, not maxed. Never finished FO2 because the gameplay sucks even with minmaxing.
>when underage children raised on Bethesda turds try "them old ass games that came out before the oldie legend RPG that is Fallout 3"
the dude's not wrong tho
the action point economy is fricking ass
even tim cain points this out when talking about converting gurps systems into a crpg the dude made a program to test builts against each other to win an argument about how agility character are always going to ass blast strength character bc they attack more often, and he just didn't bother trying to fix that when making fallout
Fallout 1 was the only Fallout game in which power armour actually felt great.
The first time I saw a super mutant in the Necropolis, I saved and shoot it and it killed me in one shot of its laser rifle.
By the end, with full power armour and gatling laser, I cruised through the Cathedral and just killed everybody lmao.
I loved the BoS.
"Freedom" and "player choice" are illusions.
There will never be a game that gives you true freedom where your actions impact the world other than some planned events.
I'd rather play a linear game that feels really, really good than a sandbox full of event triggers and millions of lines voice acting that takes half the budget
>"Freedom" and "player choice" are illusions.
"Freedom" and "player choice" are even more of an illusion in 99.9% of tabletop RPG games.
I can't even imagine what it must be like to be someone who developed RPGs in the early 90s. Those people have PEAK respect from me. After 00s, programming became piss easy. And before the 90s, you didn't have to do your own engines to do comparatively hyper complex 2D graphics. Like I am a stackoverflow trash tier programmer and I cannot even imagine how I would start programming a 2D isometric view game, much less an RPG - the most complex genre of all time. Tim Cain's word is like Jesus's word to me.
>Tim Cain's word is like Jesus's word to me.
Then there are people like David W. Bradley, a music student, who wrote, designed, and programmed Wizardry 7. Talk about a virtuoso.
Fallout is mid