>go to make dungeon for my group to explore
>there are 5 of them and 3 of them have pets
>all of the pets are large sized
>they also summon shit
>on the rare occasion we have a dungeon, they complain the rooms are too small
>even though it's a 60x40 foot room which is already incredibly large for underground
>draw out a few rooms which I wanted to have 4 monsters in so that it's actually a challenge
>realize there will be no room for all of the conbatants and some people will have to wait outside
>meaning my gf probably won't get to participate again and she will be more dejected by the game
I'm so fricking sick of pets and pet classes. Why do they all have to become huge sized? What fricking idiot made modern DnD with a battlemat and minis premise and decided "yes the best way to advance animal companions is to make them grow to huge size and take up more space than the rest of the party combined."
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Run an hexcrawl instead.
This is a repeat thread, this exact thing has been posted like 5 times. Corriander
Hexcrawls contain dungeons. The issue is still there.
Pathfinder has dozens of options for large pets even for non pet classes. And 5e still let's you shapeshift, polymorph, etc into Large sized shit and also have those as companions later on. Yeah obviously not at 1st level but some of us play beyond 1st level.
>scientiest puzzled when caverns, tunnels and other underground constructions magically become bigger if you draw hexagons on the floor
what D&D class actually gets a large pet, drake ranger? certainly nothing core, seems fake and gay to me
For the price of one suit of plate armor, you can buy seven elephants and still have 100gp left over.
Make all the ceilings so low that large sized creatures cannot even enter.
>I'm so fricking sick of pets and pet classes.
then ban pets and pet classes. Why are half of /tg/ threads shit that can be fixed in a fricking second?
Because freakshit players get pissy when you ban their shit and they demand you make larger dungeons instead.
b8
Why are you playing with people who freak out so easily in the first place?
Why are you a dogshit DM and hate adapting in a game you yourself agreed to run?
Huh. My group has always considered difficulty navigating indoor or underground spaces one of the key balancing factors around animal companions and mounted characters. Of course you're not going to be able to bring your horse-sized wolf into a goblin warren.
>Of course you're not going to be able to bring your horse-sized wolf into a goblin warren.
So their entire character is invalidated.
But the game presents that as an option. Therefore it is of utmost importance.
And if the GM doesn't warp the world to accommodate, he is "punishing" your character.
>So their entire character is invalidated.
No, one aspect of their character is invalidated. If your entire character is completely dependent on access to their animal companion to contribute to the game then you've fricked up when building your character.
>If your entire character is completely dependent on access to their animal companion to contribute to the game then you've fricked up when building your character.
More like the devs fricked up by building the class.
Yes, the attacking character is 'invalidated', you gormless crayon eating frickwit. That's why defenses like narrow corridors, castle walls, gates and moats are used by defenders to protect themselfves with, so they give the defender a better chance. If you are the DM try to see your hastily scribbled dungeon from the point of view of the npcs using it and have them take advantage of choke ways and defences. FFS, some of you gamers today have brains the size of peas.
Very correct post.
For all their kvetching about character agency and narrative and shit, newbies don't seem at all interested in treating the game world like a real place.
Yes I know how to do that but the players get pissed when I do that and complain and literally on the verge of taking a grumpy dumpy if they can't use their tricks in every battle.
And as for my gf, she isn't like that, but I'd feel bad for her to miss out on that when she's so new to the game. I feel bad for her not the others. The others will just get pissed and it'll be annoying.
Well, if your friends are whiny c**ts, then your only options are to convince them to play something that doesn't put them completely in videogame brain mode, get new friends, or just completely throw out whatever it is you're trying to do and make them nice big raid boss arenas everywhere.
yes, thats what defenders what try and do, because combat is from both parties perspective generally about how to cheat as much as possible.
Heres the issue with your massive brain takes, combat is also generally not very fun in real life.
When a character which is mechanically reliant around doing something suddenly cant do it, it just means they dont get to meaningfully participate in the game.
Its not that the goblin tunnels being too small for any medium sized creature is impossible, its that at that point you may as well ask everyone but the dwarf to stay home that week or go sit on the couch eating crisps and watching television.
Likewise your totally cool wizard proofed dungeon lined with anti-magic may well be entirely sensible in universe, of course the evil artificer cult doesent want mages doing anything to them, but thats not going to be any consolation when the wizard finds out he contributes as much scrolling twitter as he does trying to participate in the game (which is by the way what youre going to end up with, because unless theyre REALLY good players and REALLY narratively engaged (which they arent, because youre running dungeon crawls) theyre going to find that since they cant do anything they have no reason to pay attention and subsequently find something else to do).
If your players keep playing pet classes because thats what they enjoy, you should probably try and make encounters which accommodate and work with that instead of trying to go against it, because the goal is for them to have fun. HOWEVER, if you have some very specific ideas of what you want to do and pet classes keep fricking it up and YOU arent having fun? Talk to your players, explain the situation, and then find a solution that lets you do the ebin 5x5 square rooms you want. Because once again, the goal is for people to enjoy themselves and everything else is just a mechanism for getting there.
Animal companions growing to Large size, let alone Huge, is a big (no pun intended) problem, and should be treated as such. Once something is categorized as Large, there should be many, many places where they can't go, and if they are Huge, they are pretty much impossible to bring indoors anywhere, outside of things like the "outdoors" of a dwarven hold or the canyon/burrow of a dragon.
You did this to yourself.
>players have pets & summons that are too big to fit in dungeons
>they can't be brought into dungeons
>players experience the consequences of their own actions
Waiter! Waiter!!
This thread is cold, and there's a dead fly in it. Bring me another!
I am glad to not have this problem over in gurpsland.
People insisting on bringing giant shit into small passages is stymied immediately by two simple words. "okay, how?"
Not just how do they fit, but how do they do things. Okay, your pet takes up the entire passage and the enemies at the end shoot at it. Oh you want to roll to defend? How? How do you dodge, you can't move. As a matter of fact, the other guys get +4 to hit because you physically cannot evade the attack. If it can't stand up right it can enjoy scooting along at the crouched or crawling movement rates and accomplishing nothing, too.
It wants to swing its big dumb claws at that guy in the doorway? Okay, how does it 'swing' when the walls are in the way? You can have forced-telegraphed grabs because the method of your attack is too obvious and can like it.
In a game where the mechanics actually represent things in the fiction, you're not entitled to the benefit of mechanics that make no fricking sense in context, and you can enjoy the repercussions of that.
Common GURPS W
>As a matter of fact, the other guys get +4 to hit because you physically cannot evade the attack.
Is that an actual gurps rule?
Anyway GURPS is based and I have run it before but I can't get my group to play it cause they'd rather play Savage Worlds instead.
>Is that an actual gurps rule?
I can't seem to find it, and several years in I don't remember 100% where the ruling actually came from. The table notes are the result of three GMs and several invested players scouring basically every splat, and I've committed zero neurons to remembering which ones shit came from.
The table ruling, in any case, amounts to 'to hit numbers represent some assumption of movement in combat, so total immobility grants +4 as per targeting an area or telegraphic attack, within reason.' You don't get +4 to hit say, a rope at 200y just because it's not moving. But you do if your target takes up almost all of an area you couldn't reasonably miss, or if you're paralyzed at close range similar to the 'free' +4 telegraphic against non-defending actors in melee.
You don't get this if your specific target is mobile though; If a, say a drake, is taking up an entire hallway and you want to shoot it in the head, but it's head is whipping around on its long ass neck, it can still roll to dodge because its target extremity is still mobile. Either way, you're going to hit its body if you miss because the projectile still has to go somewhere.
The verbal rulings encyclopedia could probably be an actual encyclopedia at this point. Especially with how out of control grappling combat can get.
As for what your players want to play; gurps can be a tough sell. I mostly get people onboard if I can demonstrate the combat being especially interesting, or the ways in which the game properly run is intuitive and flexible enough to let them do basically whatever with at least a reasonable degree of internal logic.
Most editions that allowed big pets in dnd also have rules for all those things if a bit hard to find. The issue is the Nogames non-DM's imaginary players are hypothetical entitled little shits who won't continue (not) playing with him if he doesn't make dungeons so big that they never have to deal with these penalties.
>go to make dungeon for my characters to explore
>there are 3 of them and none of them have pets, because I didn't make pets a gameplay mechanic
>nobody summons shit, either, because summoning isn't a gameplay mechanic
>playable characters are the smallest category of size, squares are measured 10×10 instead of 5×5 allowing 4 per space, space is somewhat abstracted; rooms are never too small
>can have as many dungeons as I want
>game is built around challenging effective skill use & movement instead of overloading the action economy
>there is always room for all combatants, nobody has to wait outside
>don't have to worry about morons getting huffy or dejected
I'm so glad I don't have to deal with shitty systems like D&D and its imitators. What fricking idiot looks at one of those and decides "yes the best way to spend my time is on something made by morons for morons"?
Adapt or die is the name of the game.
Always has been.
So either you adapt the encounters to account for the PCs. Or for the PCs to adapt to your campaign. Either path will work.
this guy b***hing about the npc henchmen, god only knows how he’d cope with a sci-fi campaign with spaceships, jetpacks, ground vehicles, all manner of exotic ranged weapons, teleporters, etc…
Wojack posters are subhuman.
>greek fire and other explosives suddenly become super cost efficient for enemies
People make dumb restrictions all the time at character creation. Can't you just tell your players flat out
>Look, it's not that I care about if you want pets. It just bogs down gameplay and makes it a slog packing everyone on the map like sardines
>It would either have to be theater of the mind or just far fewer summons
Maybe even offer them free items instead. Items don't take up space on the map and it entices them to cooperate
In my 12 years in the hobby I've never been in a Dungeon or fought a Dragon
Nor should you. Dungeons are an outdated paradigm.
t. someone who was there where dungeons were the paradigm
Roll to see if the pets+summons accidentally crush their masters in such a space. That would be funny.
Why did you allow them in the first place then?
I don't say this often, but have you tried not playing DnD?
>have animal enter first
>tell player to roll a d6
>if they get 5 or lower they run face first into large animal butt.
>OP has a fat girlfriend
>Makes a thinly veiled /tg/ thread about her not being able to fit certain places cause he has a feeding and humiliation kink
OP, how do you DM when your fat gf is using your face as a seat?
Why don't the characters with pets that can't fit in the narrow corridors just leave and go on some other quest where their pets have room, if they're unwilling to temporarily part with them? It's their choice what they want to do, if they don't like the dungeon because it doesn't fit their playstyle and tactical specializations then they can always choose to not explore it.
The opposite is a massive problem too
>DM makes hallways horribly gigantic for no reason, meaning that when we enter combat both sides have to dash at eachother the first round in order to even get within 60 feet of eachother
>Player strategy requires a lot of room.
>Player decides to adventure in confined space.
>Fricking DM ruins my strategy
If you use the dungeon exploration procedures from 1E D&D it takes 10 minutes to explore 60-120 feet of Dungeon carefully.
Now they can't constantly have summons out.
Anyways 3.5+ is a negotiation between players and a DM as to why their character sheet obsoletes gameplay aspects.