God the more I play lancer the more I just dislike.
I REALLY, REALLY wanna like it. The lores pretty interesting, the mechs have interesting abilities, but frick the game just feels like such a slog. All the enemies just have counters to all of your cool abilities, everything takes way too long.
It feels like the worst parts of every RPG (combat that feels like spreadsheet work) and just bases the whole game around it.
Steal what you like and run it in another system. Frick it, do it in Savage Worlds.
>Frick it, do it in Savage Worlds.
Terrible idea, the vehicle rules are shit and terrible for mechs. It's only good gimmick is low bookkeeping combat and that doesn't apply to the vehicle rules. The system in general is bad: unbalanced skill list, loads of useless perks, exploding dice with multi die damage rolls makes them disproportionately more likely to give some ridiculous damage number. And so on.
>ERM AKSHUALY THAT GAME IS LE UNBALANCED!
Don't care. SW is rad and you're a pussy.
While that anon was useless, I do have to agree that vehicles are a weak point in the sw system.
Maybe somebody's found a workaround, but I suppose the only real way to do mechs in that system would just be to stat them up as characters.
Which, let's face it, isn't all that different from how Lancer works anyways. At least this way, combat would be faster.
>but I suppose the only real way to do mechs in that system would just be to stat them up as characters.
>Which, let's face it, isn't all that different from how Lancer works anyways. At least this way, combat would be faster.
lmao my thoughts exactly
Imagine complaining about a system not having vehicle rules in a fricking LANCER thread.
Cope. Savage Worlds has zero unique attributes besides its combat system which isn't even that unique. The 3.5 DnD style feat trees are moronic. The weapon rules are offensively bad and based on fuddlore and urban legends. Spears are shit which is unrealistic, katanas are literally Nippon steel folded 1000 times, Ak47s deal more damage than .308 chambered rifles because "LE AK47 IS LE HEAVY RIFLE" stupid meme bullshit. The chase rules are embarrassingly bad for such a promising concept. The skill list prices gambling the same as fighting....LMAO. And combats against anything but mook hordes are circlejerks of dealing 12 damage to a 13 Toughness monster until someone rolls 38 damage and obliterates it. Oh, and Wild Attacking is busted.
Don’t forget shotguns.
Didn't read because I don't respect you or your opinions.
All Savage Spergs who still are angry about a game they played 10 years ago need to state which edition they're talking about when they bring up specific gripes.
>katanas are literally Nippon steel folded 1000 times
It's Str+d6+1 in the latest "Adventure Edition" not Str+d6+2 with AP 2
>The chase rules are embarrassingly bad for such a promising concept.
Since the chase rules completely change from edition to edition nobody can be sure what you're talking about.
>Wild Attacking is busted
+2 to hit and damage, character becomes Vulnerable (attackers have a +2 bonus to hit) until the end of their next turn. Is this what was busted? Because it has changed from the old ass edition.
>The 3.5 DnD style feat trees are moronic.
This is still true. The method of determining prerequisites for Edges is "we made it up"
>need to state which edition they're
People still gripe about 3.5 DnD even though it came out 20 years ago. SWADE has its own issues like the god awful bandages of "default skills" or whatever the hell, minor fixes, but the overall game is still heavily flawed and now they added Conditions for even more boost, which DIRECTLY WORKS AGAINST THEIR "UP DOWN OR OFF THE TABLE" DESIGN ETHOS!!!!!
Savage Worlds is a nice mix of rules-lite but still giving enough options to keep things interesting. And their settings are fricking insane like Rippers.
>All the enemies just have counters to all of your cool abilities
On paper it sounds like that would make it more interesting, isn't that the case? Do you just want some punching bags?
>On paper it sounds like that would make it more interesting, isn't that the case?
No. No, it doesn't. Are you moronic? If some enemies had counters to x ability, and some to y ability, then it would be fun, you can try different things on different enemies. But if they all can counter your cool stuff, what is the point of having cool stuff?
>But if they all can counter your cool stuff, what is the point of having cool stuff?
That's the thing, they can't. Not all of them anyway. Part of the game is figuring which enemies will be vulnerable to your cool stuff and which will resist. You also want to keep shaking things up so the DM doesn't get tired of your shenanigans.
Just out of curiousity, which combo did you use and how did the DM counter it?
>But if they all can counter your cool stuff, what is the point of having cool stuff?
Designers take note. This is the perfect example of when NOT to listen to players.
>yet another lancer discord troony thread created talking mildly bad against it so the same discord trannies can reply and generate engagement
This is like the 300th thread they make the same way here. They probably do the same on other places like reddit, salvia and shit.
INB4 culture war false flagging or wall of texts talking about random mechanics out of the blue.
So what's the winning move here? We won't ever be able to discuss a whole system because some degenerate has a chance to participate in the thread? With that reasoning we wouldn't be able to discuss anything at all ever.
kek you were spot on
and to think I doubted you
No man I just want to talk about encounters
Yes, anon. You're being gangstalked.
no one has ever been more right than this dude lmfao
Abby himself may be watching this very thread, and (still) seething at this very post.
I remember when he used to appear in every other lancer thread to randomly get upset at people and project his mental illnesses
Lmao what a fricking loser
Troons are so vile jesus fricking christ
Ever fricking Lancer thread goes this way and it's so fricking common that there's little doubt in my mind that this post is correct and it's homosexuals and trannies from the lancer discord doing this on purpose because they think they can really make lancer more popular by starting mild arguments that the system is less than great... until the dedicated lancergays show up and TOTALLY DESTROY THE HATERS WITH FACTS AND LOGIC (but really just accusations that your GM is bad or that you didn't read the book closely enough to find the magic rule that makes the game not fricking suck) and then everyone is supposed to clap and say "maybe I WILL try Lancer after all!"
Yeah bro, the snowflakes in the Lancer Discord that toss bans like rain and wouod burst into flame at the mere sight of the gamer word are totally coming here.
You're not fitting in or convincing anyone like you think you are.
sorry that poster fits in, I declare it
The problem is that most of these complaints come from a complete lack of understanding the game or irrelevant shit like the art. Take for example
Who thinks heat somehow game mechs extra actions. and that Heat is the only game resource. Or
who complains about the art. Who cares about the art? Is this a comic book?
Or
Who actually thinks Union is Actually Communist. (it's a hybrid economy with the government giving you a bare minimum food, water, and shelter to survive if you don't have it)
I hope you are getting paid to spam here, cause no sane person would do this shit for free
>Who thinks heat somehow game mechs extra actions.
Yeah sure it doesn't allow full on "actions" in the sense of extra turns in either Lancer or BT, but you get the idea moron. Look me in the fricking eye and tell me that Heat isn't in there because Battletech.
>and that Heat is the only game resource
Never said that. Nor is heat my "only" complaint with the system. It's just an example. Every fricking mechanic is like that.
>Then again, it also has nothing to do with mecha and is purely personal scale.
This is another huge problem with the setting which I briefly touched upon but didn't really want to go into. It's not really a "mecha setting" in the sense that the mecha - while important - are not really what the setting or scenario are "about".
It's more about fricking 3d printer star trek matter replicators. It's very obvious that most (all?) of the writers didn't really wanna write a mecha setting and that the mecha are an after thought. You can feel it in your fricking BONES while reading it.
Same way it genuinely feels like there was a guy on the team who wanted to write cyberpunk and a guy on the team who wanted to write star trek, and that one guy got booted from the office but snuck in as much of his stuff as he wanted before fricking off.
I feel like _someone_ on the team was impassioned about mecha. But him and the setting guys didn't talk much.
damn this dude is seething, he's writing an essay about how pissed he is that the game has heat
It's called a review, I'm trying to provide something helpful to people who have not played the game and are genuinely on the fence about it. There's so much shitposting in these threads that it can genuinely be hard to parse actual criticisms or the validity of it, so I'm trying to lay out my thoughts on the game as clearly and idiot-proof as I can.
And again, Heat is just an example. What I said about it could have easily applied to say, the Overwatch system. I probably could have written just as much comparing how Lancer handles enemy reaction systems to Infinity and how much shallower it is. But Heat is a funnier example because it's a sacred cow ripped off from another game.
Are you asking in terms of gameplay mechanics or setting?
>It's called a review
Your "review" is incoherent anger at bizarre shit like "its not battletech but when it does take mechanics from battletech that's bad".
>>>it shits on the entire idea of mecha as a concept
damn, this dude's more melodramatic than a theater kid
>Your "review" is incoherent anger at bizarre shit like "its not battletech but when it does take mechanics from battletech that's bad".
Literally not what I said. I said that the mechanics are shallow and not flavorful. Heat was just an example.
If you're going to strawman at least make it convincing so it doesn't seem like your an ESL who can't fricking read.
Another more succinct way of putting it would be
"The game suffers for being a 4e successor, but a game about piloting giant machines should have more distinct core mechanics than what you can feasibly achieve appending gimmicks to a 4e clone."
Look at Tokyo Nova's vehicle rules for homebrew ideas. It pretty much perfectly does what you described.
What type of fricking moron would make a game like 4e on purpose lol
All the rule sets you listed have rules that are both dull and don't work, though.
Anon, are you actually gonna sit here and tell me you've played Princess Wing, a game that was translated like last year and was only widely known to Japanese TTRPG enthusiasts? Stop lying, please. This is almost as bad as the other anon trying to derail it into Battletech.
Story / Setting wise? Something where Giant Robots are integral plot devices which drive the plot or setting.
It's fairly open. This genre is 50+ years old and any genre mashup or wrinkle on it you can think of has been done. Fantasy swords and sorcerer mecha, economics lesson mecha, horror mecha, super hero mecha, mil-sci mecha, etc. etc.
I think a key thing to distinguish a "mecha game" or a "mecha setting" from one that just has mecha IN IT, would be how key they are to the plot, the development of the setting, etc. for example Tokyo Nova has vehicle rules an entire class of mecha options which are actually really fricking fun to use and quite elegant. However Tokyo Nova is not a mecha ttrpg or a mecha setting, because the giant robots are not the main attraction, simply put. On-foot combat has far more attention put onto it in both mechanics and fluff and the games character options focus just as much on hackers, hitmen, thugs, vampires, mutants, psychics, cyborgs, etc. as they do on mecha pilots who are just one option out of many.
Is Lancer a mecha setting? I guuueeesss?? Maybe? Depends on what paragraph of the book you're currently on.
Regardless you can tell it wouldn't be if the writers weren't mandated to do so. The book is very poorly written with awful prose and layout, so it's hard to make concrete arguments by citing page and source number, but the mecha are incorporated into a setting in a way that feels very shoe-horned. People in these threads constantly argue about lines that talk about them being humanoid "for morale" or about the more important battles fought with lightyear spanning artillery, and various other headscratchers. Personally I'm not going to give myself brain damage trying to parse it all (I don't think the writers even did) because again, the book is a fricking mess and it feels like in between all the technobabble and bureaucratic jargon there are constant contradictions and plotholes.
Point is, I don't think Lancer is a GOOD mecha setting because I don't think the writers gave a shit about the robots and just wanted to write about how fricking awesome 3d printers are.
Ok, lancergay, what is "dull" and "doesn't work" about Nechronica's system? Surely you've played it if you're saying that.
Your "critique" of his review reads like a 15 year old on a Steam review comments section, angry that someone provided legitimate criticisms of his favorite game.
Why are you so intent on defending Lancer? The game is legitimately terribly in design - it's an RNG-heavy mess, where even attempting to gain advantage leads to layering more RNG on top of the RNG, and a piss-poor customization structure that doesn't even come close to Battletech. The fact they use a d20 instead of a 3d6 system makes it all even worse - the range is too wide and they include shitty bounded accuracy. Your pilot's skill has little to no effect on success. If I wanted to play a gambling simulator I'd take a weekend in Vegas.
I don't even want to touch the lore because the mechanics are so poor that the setting doesn't even warrant a glance.
Your criticisms are superficial and clearly bait to prolong this thread.
If this same thread appears after it archives, it will be reported as spam.
>legitimate criticisms of game mechanics are superficial
>I'm going to report you!
Why are you so assblasted over this lame ttrpg and its shitty mechanics? Is it because the criticisms provided in this thread are true? Are you the developer of this game? What vested interest do you have in defending Lancer? Grow up or provide reasoned counterpoints instead of just threatening to report.
>HE'S SHITTING ON MY FAVORITE GAME
>I'M TELLING
Fricking pathetic.
See? This is what I'm talking about here
There are a small number of people in these threads (like this guy
) who are like, actual human beings, but like 90% of the people (like you) who defend this game are obviously shills who just say "nuh uh" and try to strawman or derail from ANY criticism. You literally cannot say anything REMOTELY negative about this game without getting called a chud, or a smoothbrain, or "you don't really understand the rules" or whatever. When you get that fricking defensive about a game it's obvious your a fricking shill who just wants to drown out anybody pointing out that the game isn't "THE BEST MECH GAME EVER".
And that's why these frickin' threads always turn into shitstorms! You Lancergays are WAY TO FRICKING FUN TO TROLL. You're a bunch of joyless douchebaggy fricks who make your favorite game that you're trying to promote more and more hated because you just. can't. shut. the. frick. up.
>What vested interest do you have in defending Lancer?
Awhile ago in a discord server for a completely unrelated TTRPG, someone who had lurked the official Lancer Discord told me that the people in that server make it an iniative to "ally" other ttrpg communities. With that in mind, I have no fricking doubt that most of these rabid shills are from the games community, desperately trying to promote their mediocre game.
>someone who had lurked the official Lancer Discord told me that the people in that server make it an iniative to "ally" other ttrpg communities
This hobby is in a sad state, especially with all these pathetically fragile egos around. Why can't these folks understand that if you create something and put it out to the public you must fully expect there will be those who dislike it. When those who dislike it provide valid criticisms you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and go "WAAAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU MY CREATION IS PERFECT WAAAH REPORT REPORT". I imagine Dicksword servers make it even worse since you can just surround yourself with sycophants and ass-kissers.
We will happily accept Lancer's flaws when you actually name them. As it is, you're complaining about nothing burgers and getting factual information wrong. We are merely correcting your mistakes.
>we
>actually name the flaws
>nothing burgers
Selective reading is an interesting mental debilitation. Try scrolling up and starting over, your reading comprehension needs work.
I did. Most of the time it's just subjective opinions on how a mech game is supposed to be played or what a setting is supposed to be. Other times it's factually wrong claims about the game setting or gameplay. There was this one complaint about the game being slow but when other posters said that wasn't their experience and someone posted a video of a turn lasting only 5 minutes he threw a fit.
So by all means, name the flaws but don't expect others to bow down to your hot takes. This is Ganker, people come here to argue.
You're awfully fixated on burgers for a communist.
>JANNY HELP SOMEONE IS POSTING THE TRUTH
lol israelite
What do you consider mecha. Simple question. Answer it however you think best.
Sorry israelite not gonna engage your pilpul
I'm gonna pilpul your mom, honky
>What do you consider mecha.
Golf
Thanks for the review, don't be bothered with seething discord gender specials.
>There's so much shitposting in these threads that it can genuinely be hard to parse actual criticisms or the validity of it
This is the side effect of everyone who, in good faith, shares their sincere opinions about Lancer's fault getting drowned out by discord trannies going
>UHHH YOU'RE ALL JUST SEETHING BECAUSE YOU'RE A CHUD????
So people got tired of this about 50 threads ago and now just sling shit, because if the other side isn't even going to read what you say without making up an imaginary argument to debunk instead, why should we waste any time engaging them on a topic that they demand ends with "Lancer is the best RPG and you can't say anything is wrong with it."
>discord trannies
I have a very hard time believing anyone who can say this phrase unprompted could be giving a sincere opinion.
Sounds like something a discord troony would say.
Okay cool, kid.
What do you consider mecha?
Lancer always feels to me like it wants to be a video game but is made by people without the skills to do it, so instead they "settled" for a tabletop roleplaying game. They should do a kickstarter or something, Owlcat Games and Baldur's Gate prove build-autism gamers are still a major force, and that's 90% of the reason anyone has ever played Lancer.
OP you can use the lore and setting for ANY game, and can remake interesting weapons/abilities in other systems, why not just play a different mecha game? One that is designed to run the type of game you're interested in?
>All the enemies just have counters to all of your cool abilities
That's on your GM.
With COMPCON, it's already practically a video. They should honestly just combine it with some visual novel engine, cobble together a simple map system, build a dimwit behavior engine to control enemies ala Pacman, and release it as a barebones game for $10.
It looks like they’re already headed that way to some extent. Someone’s already making a Fire Emblem-esque fangame for Lancer.
Sounds great, hopefully then it can frick off to >>>Ganker instead so we don't have to fricking deal with it here.
>Someone’s already making a Fire Emblem-esque fangame for Lancer.
Front Mission is like 40 years old, has cooler designs and a better setting.
Front Mission died in the 90's, no one remembers that beyond crusty grogs.
4 and 5 came out in the early to mid 2000s and were pretty good, you know.
>FM 4 and 5
>good
Trolling is supposed to be subtle, anon.
This just proves to me that a D&D 4e game would have done well.
4e sucked ass, this majora's mask shit where kids pretend it was secretly good is moronic. It was reviled for a reason.
welcome to Ganker, this contrarianism crap is mostly why things went to utter unredeemable shit
Hell, welcome to /traditional gaming/ in general, where the supposed "fans" spend way, way more time arguing and being contrarian to each other over their games of make-believe instead of actually playing the games they claim they love so much.
We're allowed to have a conversation ya Black person, can't play every second of the day.
Dont pretnd this board isnt 90% worthless complaining and 10% generals
I refuse to call anything worthless that is being enjoyed by people doing it. Heroin and Lancer are both gay and moronic but I wouldn't call them worthless.
that's a moronic distinction, might as well say shits not worthless as a game because some people enjoy eating, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
No, I'm saying let us have fun talking online about how Lancer sucks just like we let you have fun pretending online to be a woman
>Starts babbling about trannies
lmao and this is supposed to help your case?
Lmao I took a stab in the dark and someone with a voice changer started complaining, peak lancer
No you couldn't hold an argument and started with the generic troony screeching, it wasn't even a difficult one.
>if you respond you're a troony
frick me this place is just Ganker now
That's what happens when hiroshimoot didn't nuke /misc/tards and election tourists off the site like the cancer they are.
>If i remove the place where they go they will magically disappear
Peak moronation.
Over the long haul yes, they cannot congregate freely, now begone /misc/ gay
First doesn't work like that you simple-minded goon, second rpgnet and appropriate subreddit are pol-free due to overmoderation, you can frick off there if you cannot stand the company instead of wanting to overhaul this place in image of those aforementioned places.
No Ill stay here to make fun of you gay lol, also real good job giving nay actual arguments on how I'm wrong, no insults arent arguments no matter how much you're /misc/ rotten brain thinks they are.
So you're here just for the sake of controversy and related dopamine kicks, glad you showed your colors
Nope, unless you're of the same kind as the moron above places that already align to your vision exist so don't waste anymore time here and frick off over there.
you make the argument to remove /misc/all the stronger honestly, if only to witness the apocalyptic ass pain it would produce
Of course it works, why do you think you morons aren't allowed to speak your insane babble elsewhere? Because you cancerous morons can't get a foothold. With no den to roost, you shit for brains scatter. /misc/ should not only be nuked, every poster since 2016 years should be range banned. It'd certainly help the overall site quality.
>Of course it works
And why do you think there's a "problem" here then moron? Precisely because fricking mongoloids like you at some point decided to go scorched earth on people from other holes making this then only large enough place where to congregate. Juste nuke /misc/ and you'll get another board become /misc/ in no time, start rangebanning like a spastic everywhere? You'll get raids from discord or whatever other online sawage until this place becomes a barren wasteland like rpgnet and reddit. So save yourself some time a go kys over there. moron.
If you're gonna act like that then no
4E was the best D&D ever was.
Nope. Stripping all of the soul out of D&D was not a solution to D&D being a pretty poor game. 4e was just bad AND soulless as frick.
>Stripping all of the soul out of D&D was not a solution to D&D being a pretty poor game.
I agree but we're not discussing 5th edition, please try to stay on topic.
You're a gay, both 4e and majora's mask were top tier
4E was terrible because of the Daily and Encounter powers. So many of them were just tiny variations on the same thing that it was a pain in the ass to keep track of and slowed things down as you needed to search your character sheet to make comparisons.
So Lancer did away with them. Now you have the Limited, Reload, and Heat mechanics.
AEDU was fine.
For players, maybe, but DMs hated it. Far too much to remember. Personally, I thought it felt lame. So I only get one lightning bolt per encounter? What's the point of being a wizard?
No they didn't.
Every time I played 4E my DMs complained about it.
Your DMs were moronic. AEDU was so much easier to keep track of than casters in 3.X and you could easily have multiple flavors of them.
That's more of a DnD problem in general. The spell lists have gotten so long that it takes ages to flip through them. Even 5E has this problem.
There's still time to make one, WotC sure hasn't yet.
hit the fricking nail on the head in the first line
ive considered using the setting for a campaign of Only War
This is doubly true since Abbadon/Tom is prone towards grabbing whatever ruleset is popular with indie RPG crowds and plopping his latest "wouldn't this be cool?" idea into it. Which is why so many of his games are built on PBTA or FITD. I'm surprised Magnagothica wasn't some "Belong outside belonging" pile of shit, given his track record.
Are there any good Mecha RPGs out there that aren't stupidly crunchy? I know Lancer, I know MechWarrior, and both are painful amounts of combat crunch and not super fun for more casual crowds. Preferably something like Nechronica level of crunch, which is heavily front loaded on chargen and lighter on the actual gameplay aspect
Battle Century G. Dude is even making a newer less crunchy edition called Battle Century S.
It’s basically SRW the RPG.
He said good rpgs anon.
You’re right, I shouldn’t have recommended “the best” when he only wanted “good.”
Here’s your (you).
I wasn't as impressed with Battle Century S as I was BCG. I know it's still a WIP, but I felt like there's less options in S. Also I prefer the way weapons work in G.
I've played Lancer once and it takes the worst parts of 5e and turns it to an 11. It's just a wargame pretending to be an RPG.
>The lores pretty interesting
Shit taste detected
Played a short campaign up to LL3, took almost 3 months I think? This was my takeaway as well. The most fun part of the game is building mechs out of the session for players and setting up fights as the GM. When it's time to actually play the game is unbearably slow. I had four PC's and we would routinely go 30 to 45 minutes between player turns even after we had begun to grasp the rules. Here's why it is hard to avoid long turns: (1) players have a bunch of options for what they can do individually, (2) the players can choose initiative order as they go through the turn meaning plans need to be discussed and renegotiated because (3) enemy turns can dramatically shift the battle meaning previous plans must be discarded. Then add on top of this the godforsaken D20 roll to hit mechanic from D&D. Works fine in B/X but not here. Consistently my players waited 30+ minutes for their turn, would spend a move action to stand up from prone or something and then fire and miss. Have fun waiting another 30 minutes for a chance to contribute to a fight that lasts maybe 4-6 turns total. A single unlucky turn will often cost you 20% of your actions for the entire battle and a lot of wasted gaming time.
One other thing is the OP is right about enemy design. Many Lancer enemies stun you, knock you prone, disable your weapons, or in some other way mess with you. On the one hand this is good because nothing but damage is boring. On the other hand losing your entire turn (or just your best option) feels bad when you get 4-6 turns total per battle and the turns take as long as they do.
The last thing that killed it for me is linearity. As GM if you want an interesting battle you need an enemy team composition, a battle map with a good bit of cover and height variation, and a sitrep with an alternate win condition than "kill em all." This makes it hard to give agency to the players out of the mech because as GM I have a prepared fight we need to get to. You can't freestyle.
?si=C3KeqMa7g2lIKxYh
Typically you spend about 5-10 minutes per turn. It seems like there's something wrong with your group.
We can play other RPG combats no issue, but with Lancer it would be one combat that lasted for over an hour and a half. I play pretty complex board games with this same group and we don't have issues. I think what slowed us down so much was a couple of my players like to optimize and so every turn they would want to figure out who should go next and how their plan should change. Hour+ long combats are certainly not abnormal reading posts from the community. See the post below, every example with a time listed is over one hour for a combat and several list two hours or more. I don't doubt if you have a crew of players who know the rules intimately, know each other's mechs well, know their preferred strategy as a team versus a variety of threats, and they know what the enemies can do you can get through a combat a lot faster, but that is a big ask.
I was probably exaggerating a bit with 30-45 minutes in between turns though one time I know for a fact it was at least 30. 20 minutes may be a more accurate average but that is still way too long.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LancerRPG/comments/q4yc3d/how_long_is_the_average_combat_scene_at_your_table/
I GM for a three person group. Our sessions usually last four hours. On average, during a session we are able to finish a single ~turn combat encounter, handle repairs etc and do progress the story of the mission a bit.
It is frustratingly slow. So much so, we've pretty much given up on a large scope story and just do "merc contract of the week" types of missions.
I don't think it is rules problem, at least in the way that rolls and action resolution aren't taking most of the time, but rather decisions and planning.
We also use custom setting, so this alleviates most of my frustrations
What in the actual frick are you mongoloids doing wrong here. I run a group of fresh off 5e 3months game experience morons and even they get a whole combat done in about an hour.
From what they've said, they're trying to optimize turn order and turn actions, which requires discussion and planning within the group, and particularly it has to be done both before and after enemies move because plans have to be adjusted in response to enemy actions. These groups would seriously benefit from the GM banning out-of-character chatter during combat and imposing a two sentence limit per turn on each character. Without them constantly arguing amongst themselves to come up with a perfect plan each turn, combat would flow much faster for them.
My group does the same, and turns still don't take more than a minute or two and an entire combat is over in about an hour. I guess the shitposters really are brainless, but what can you expect of /misc/tards?
>Guy comes in and politely shares legit experience of playing the game
>Is completely polite, not shitposting or bringing up politics. Just shares how it went and a minor criticism based on experience, which his group didn't have in other games. This is also a common complaint that several other people have brought up
>LMAO BRAINLESS IDIOT, /misc/TARD. THE GAME IS THE FASTEST EVER, moron.
And you guys wonder why nobody likes this game and why every single attempt at a thread turns into a shitshow.
Also before this garbo thread dies, let's get something straight:
Lancer is not a fast game
Listen you frickin' moronic shills. Just because YOU can run a round in 5 minutes, does not mean it's not a slow, clunky, fiddly game.
Almost ANY FRICKING GAME, can run around in 5 minutes if the pc's know it back and forth enough, they're autistic enough, etc. You could run the most autistic frickin' overloaded gurps wargame bullshit in that same amount of time if everyone is autistic and into it.
That doesn't change the fact that your game objectively has a frickton of resources, overhead, and book-keeping to keep track of, as well as a laundry list of options and potential actions to perform per turn that have little reason to exist beyond giving new players decision paralysis.
I've played tons of smooth, fast, systems. Lancer is not one of them. It is not designed like one of them. And you do not get to say "well MY GROUP resolves combat in 1 hour!" as if that anecdote means shit when there are a mountain of people complaining that the game feels slow and fiddly. I had the same experience as the guy you're responding to and the list of people he linked to making the same complaint, and like him my group has played games with intricate timing and action economy systems with complex resolutions.
This is again, just another issue of why the shills for this game are so intolerable and drive away the very people they're trying to sell to. It's not like "combat takes a long time to run" is nessecarily even that bad. Tons of great games have combat that takes forever. Battletech probably takes just as long to run. But no, you fricks can't admit anything that might seem negative about the game might be valid, gotta try and discredit that anon as a moron! Heaven forbid a potential customer could be viewing the thread and might reconsider his purchase!
Frick off.
>Lancer has a lot to keep track of
Try using COMP/CON. It'll take a mission or three to understand how the app works, but once you get the hang of it, managing your pilot and mech is a breeze. It's so easy even the worst moron with choice paralysis should eventually come to understand that all they need to do is spam their mech's assault rifle for that sweet guaranteed (reliable) damage and stay within cover.
Other than that, avoid advanced starts. I know most people want to jump right into playing with super hackerman mechs with crazy abilities but that's a terrible way to learn how the game works. You wouldn't, after all, try to learn a regular game by playing a 10th level wizard. Start low, give your mech something with reliable damage, and gradually amp up.
Any game that's better played with an app should just be a videogame, and this is a common problem with mechs. Battletech is straight up a better game when played in a simulator.
>Try using COMP/CON
Saying "you need an external program to run it at a decent rate because the dev didn't know that he wasn't making a vidya" isn't a very good argument for "it's actually the fastest, simplest, smoothest game evar". I could run Battle Century G or Tokyo Nova or any number of other games way faster than Comp/Con Lancer WITHOUT an external program handling half the busywork for me.
The irony is also that Lancergays will talk shit about Battletech being autistic when Battletech also has a similar program (Megamek) that cuts down on its autism in a similar way.
>Other than that, avoid advanced starts. I know most people want to jump right into playing with super hackerman mechs with crazy abilities
Likewise it's baffling that people will claim that Lancer is a simple system and you're a smooth brain if you take a while to run it, when the game itself feels the need to tutorialize players by forcing everyone to play a boring generic grunt mech at LL0 before even unlocking the ability to have a different mech. Clearly the developers thought the game was a bit complicated and overwhelming for newcomers when they decided to drastically limit newcomers customization and prevent them from using the very robots the game advertises itself for.
Again, whether any of this is even an objective flaw is arguable, but you cannot tell me that this is a simple, smooth, fast system given all the 'tism it objectively has and that it's own fanbase uses an external program to automate a chunk of it rather than just pen and paper. If you think Lancer is so fast, you have never played an actual fast / lite / smooth TTRPG.
Just decided turn order alone is a massive pain in the ass, because enemy actions can change who you want to go next. It's a silly initiative system that takes too long to accomplish something simple - determining what should be a linear turn order.
>LL3
>bunch of options
opinion discarded, play LL6 or don't bother
I won't play this game because the developers straight up announced on their Twitter that they are literally Communists and the game is about being from a Communist "utopia".
>he doesn’t pirate the game off of the file thread and run it as a campaign to dismantle the union
>Not running it but from the PoV of a bunch of normies who have to put down the foaming at the mouth bigender polytwink hoards.
>Turns out they're all clones with implanted memories, the first memory being 'You're a gay communist' and the 2nd memory being 'You're a communist gay!'
This post right here is why it's impossible to talk about these games with the schizos on this board, then they'll probably defend MYFAROG in another thread
>then they'll probably defend MYFAROG in another thread
Nah, I know about the author of Myfarog and how insane he is. So, I won't play Myfarog either.
Made by literal Twitter communists.
>https://twitter.com/lancer_rpg/status/1123682868557955073
To quote:
>Solidarity to all workers out there on #MayDay, and a reminder that #LancerRPG is a fun lil' robot game set in a communist utopia that wants you to fight to keep it that way.
>Lancer and the politics of the people who write it are linked, and given the day, we feel it's appropriate to make note of that. We'll get back to our game about big robots tomorrow (the leftist game about commie robots fighting against fascists)
>Lancer and the politics of the people who write it are linked
damn, badass, I will now buy their game
>damn, badass, I will now buy their game
>communist participating in capitalistic pig corporatist economy system by giving money to anybody selling anything when all private property should be abolished, comrade, for the good of the public working peoples
>pirating it is piss-easy
Nice try, comrade.
>implying the USSR did not have private goods and money
damn the libertarians ITT don't know anything about commies but mald about them anyway
>We'll get back to our game about big robots tomorrow
No they won’t, they’ve all but completely abandoned it.
Given the sheer number of people Communism has killed, you really have to wonder what woke, latte-sipping California liberals see in it
They would literally be the first ones rushed to the gulags.
Post your favourite encounters you've run/fought against
>Favorite combat encounter
Grunt Aces (I like how they take more than 1 shot to kill), a Rainmaker, and Pyros attacking a company's giant alien tree orchard. Most of the cover came from the giant trees, and they were getting blasted to bits, so the battlefield was sort of dynamic enough to make it fun. I followed the mission up with the surviving alien trees "hatching" into monstrosities that the players had to herd. Whole thing was a lot of fun.
How big was the map? Every time I deploy pyros the players run circles around them
>How big was the map?
20 x 40 and later refined to 30 x 40
>Pyros
The base cataphract has this ability called impale that lets them charge and carry adjacent units several spaces. I found that pairing slow units like pyros with grunt cataphracts was a fun way to keep players on their toes. It's probably not fully rule legal but the visual was great.
What do you think of this? Holdout mission, with a bombard and a breacher ship containing a squad and a Goliath.
>but frick the game just feels like such a slog. All the enemies just have counters to all of your cool abilities, everything takes way too long
This sounds like a GM/encounter design problem. Just because they CAN put those enemies together that way doesn't mean they have to.
It's like if a GM gives every enemy three (extra) uses of Counterspell in D&D just because there's spellcasters. It's not interesting, it doesn't add an extra obstacle to outmaneuver, it's just boring and feels bad.
Either the fights are a complete stomp, or it just feels like a slog as we march our way through it.
Honestly, thats sort of the only way that game can actually balance itself.
The game has really solid encounter guidelines, your GM must be moronic.
Lol doubt it, denounce the talmud and maybe I'll listen to you
>The game has really solid encounter guidelines
The entire Lancer community disagrees with you.
Bullshit.
>It's Liberal it must be bad.
>It's Liberal it must be bad.
Yes. I'm glad you agree.
Look, if you don't like the game you can hide the thread and move on. The only plausible reason for you to be here is because the idea of a liberal game being successful terrifies you and you need to lash out so as to not lose your conservative safe space.
I am playing the game currently with my friends but the incredibly obnoxious left wing bullshit thats intrinsic to the lore constantly being pushed in my face is incredibly annoying and immersion breaking. If you don't understand why this is an issue then it's safe to say you're the cancer killing tabletop gaming, and the kind of people that were gatekept from this hobby as recently as 10 years ago.
sounds like a you problem, big dog
half my squad is racist truckers
>I am playing the game currently with my friends but the incredibly obnoxious left wing bullshit thats intrinsic to the lore constantly being pushed in my face is incredibly annoying and immersion breaking.
What parts? Because honestly Lancer can be pretty conservative depending on how you play it.
Times change, but they changed long before you remember. Shit already happened in the transition between 2e and 3.0, thats when the cultural shift began with RPG's, you're decades too late, and you're also a nobody who has no influence on culture at large because you'renot the corporationmaking these decisions. So you seethe here because you're an impotent frickstick who lost probably before they were even born.
Accept reality or shut the frick up, at this point. Facts don't care about your feelings.
The pendulum is starting to swing back in the real world. It'll take a while but it'll hit TTRPGs as well when the rainbow haired millennials that threw the genre into its current pitfall get bored and move on. Sure it was always "left wing" to a degree, but it had never reached the levels of moronation that we're at now, where WotC goes and does shit like what
mentions and some Caligaygians make a mech RPG about how communism created a real utopia and basically capitalism bad. I can deal with that as an idea, but how Lancer frames that idea makes it feel like it was written by two sheltered people who have never left their home state, let alone country.
>people who have never left their home state, let alone country
The funny part is that Tom has previously lived abroad and presently lives in Georgia.
>basically capitalism bad
Capitalism is bad. Ever hear of the Gilded Age? Roosevelt's New Deal? The rights we gained due to Unions? Unchecked capitalism leads to the rich trampling the rights of everyone else and ending social mobility. The talented poor can never rise while the incompetent rich get a free ride. Automation brings everything to a head where the rich no longer need the poor to do all the work. Suddenly, 99% of the population has no value and is a liability that is prone to riots and crime.
So it's either a communist utopia where almost all the work is automated and people are free to pursue their passions or a feudal dystopia masquerading as a corporatocracy.
The same can be applied to communism or any form of government for that matter
If you leave the group in power unchecked they'll trample those who aren't
>a mech RPG about how communism created a real utopia and basically capitalism bad.
My man Union is a failed state twice over, with thirdcomm basically being a series of flimsy compromises that constantly betrays its guiding principles in the name of keeping the galaxy in a state of relative stability and its own existence continuing.
That describes every functioning government that has ever existed past a century.
Actually, Reagan was the pendulum swinging conservative. Now we're swinging back to 1950s policies.
Never said Communism was good either. The problem is that with Automation it's either Cyberpunk or Lancer and while Cyberpunk is fun it's not somewhere you want to live.
>ugly
Picrel.
It has not. Siren's Song came out 4 months ago. Trolls like to claim it's abandoned to drive off interest.
I'd rather live in CP than Lancer tbqh famalam
It's very weird how we're only *now* getting tons of "attractive" Lancer art. Like it's been years since this game was released and everything fans and official artists made were drab flabby hijab-wearing weirdos, but since 2023 we've been getting consistently attractive women *and* men. We could do with more slab-jawed hunks, but it's a good development.
The game got some success so Massif can hire more artists. Abbadon is a hell of a productive artist but he doesn't do "pretty".
>not wanting to frick cute hologram head girl or Pyramid Head pope
Your bloodline is weak, your dick is small and feminine, and your hips are made for breeding.
i have been using this site since 2008 and this is by FAR the gayest post I have ever seen on it congratulations.
is it possible for you to go 5 seconds without thinking about your epic fox news culture war?
>It's Liberal it must be bad
Correct
For my next campaign the players will march south to the coast and enact a scorched earth policy on all enemy infrastructure.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/filename/uo872mp9tc181.jpg/
Your attempt at astroturfing your reddit memes is very transparent
>Participates in multiple threads
>Astroturfing.
Aww, you think you're important.
It's not liberal. It's Marxist. American Neo-Marxists have just always hidden behind he label of liberalism because there used to be a time they were correctly regarded as dangerous totalitarians. It'd be nice if chuds were politically literate enough to understand that distinction. But alas.
That said, I've been looking at systems to play, and shit like this rubs me the wrong way. I don't want to slog through propaganda and babby tier political theory. I don't give a shit about someone's speshul setting unless it's directly relevant for the rules. The fact alone that RPG designers seem to think their micro-fiction means anything at all is annoying. I have my own brain, I can make up my own stories. What I need is rules, and I would like them without having to excise them from a political screed as my very first fricking action as a GM. Plus, reading people's moronic takes just puts me in a bad mood overall, which I don't need while preparing a game.
>It's not liberal. It's Marxist. American Neo-Marxists have just always hidden behind he label of liberalism because there used to be a time they were correctly regarded as dangerous totalitarians. It'd be nice if chuds were politically literate enough to understand that distinction. But alas.
It's not Marxist. It's a reasonable view of how to run your society when almost all the work is automated and it's actively counterproductive to force people to work.
>What I need is rules, and I would like them without having to excise them from a political screed as my very first fricking action as a GM. Plus, reading people's moronic takes just puts me in a bad mood overall, which I don't need while preparing a game.
So...don't. Just go to the Table of Content and pick the pages you need to run the game. In fact, the rulebook layout works in your favor. You've got a mere 2 pages of lore before getting right into the rules and only the rules for about 300 pages.
What's the problem?
END THIRDCOM, FOURTHCOM NOW, END SPACE COMMUNISM!
>The lores pretty interesting
lol
>click draw
>draw a wiener and balls
>email it to the creators
>get swatted for microaggressions
My lancer saga writes itself
Yeah, the setting has some leftoid stuff in it but at least they don't shy away from stuff like slavery and genocide, unlike Paizo and WotC that have reconned their lore to fit "modern standards".
>the setting has some leftoid
>some
Lol
Lmao
you pic isn't lore tho, just the now obligatory virtue signaling
If you hate communism, (understandable) then pirate the books, run the game you wanna run, and make Union fumbling commie homosexuals (even more than they are canonically) and create better reasons why you have liscences levels in the lore for your version. Whether the developers seethe over this or not doesn't matter because you can have fun and ignore their shit politics and shit lore.
Can we move on from this pointless discussion now?
I think you're missing the fact that nobody wants to play because it sucks because commies are soulless morons not because they simply hate commies for being soulless morons.
>it sucks because I said it sucks because I disagree with the people who made it.
Suck dick
Lol stay mad you frickin moron, if you can't tell how and in what ways soulless npc morons can NEVER create anything engaging to human beings I feel bad for you but I am not surprised
I'm a human being and I can engage with it.
>I'm a human being
No you’re not.
how the frick did I solve the captcha?!
>Here's your pilot bro
Grouchy granny is a fun archetype, stop being a weenie.
That's just your average Traveller character.
I have played this game for a quarter of a year and can say it's the most fun I've had all year, partly because I'm playing with friends, and the rules are fairly straight forward.
If this system sucks then what are some good tactical RPGs?
If you don't like badass grandmas you're a gay and not my Black person.
Why would I want to be an uneducated black?
I just don't play troony games and if I wanted to play mechs, it certainly wouldn't be a westerner game. The west doesn't get the genre and lancer is just proof of that.
(you)
What WOULD you play then, anon?
Actually I did it because it's funnier. Everyone calls people homosexuals here, if doesn't mean anything anymore. Using psudo-puritan language is so uncommon these days it's become outrageous, and probably even more actually insulting because of this.
Case in point: you got angry.
>copenseethen: the post
>The lores pretty interesting
>Has no idea what the setting is.
>Heard it was made by liberals and had a panic attack
The setting makes it clear it's a corrupt place that will fall like previous human civilizations, but /tg/ is full of people with fricking milton friedman tier politics and freak out at anything to the left of them
So you admit it's left, then.
I never denied it moron, I just don't reee at it. I've played games by more right wing guys too and I know people will defend any shit made by them too
Ayo, why is a dey posting ledit memes?
What gets me about this game is how ugly everyone is. Everyone is just some shade of racially and gender-ambiguous mystery meat, it's a world full of mongrels. This is even worse because usually mecha has hot woman in skintight jumpsuits or bridge bunnies.
It's a very cringe 'pretending to be anime, but we're SO MUCH better than anime' aesthetic, made more so because you know the writers are the kind of libs who are "I would like anime if it wasn't go misogynistic and so heteronormative."
You know, the kind who think they're 'making a statement' or 'starting a conversation' through censorship (Or questions like "WHAT IF a Gundam protagonist was a homosexual? Think of how much representation that'd be!")
The fact that this game has been near-completely abandoned just makes it even funnier.
Go outside
To be fair, regarding one point and only this one point, “racial mystery meat” makes sense when it’s multiple thousands of years after an apocalypse, a near apocalypse, and probably another apocalypse or two I’m forgetting.
I doubt anyone is going to care about ethnicity and race mixing at that point.
ehh, if we're reaching multi millenia, we're going to be getting to the point where new ethnic groups are going to arise, especially if they are split among multiple planets and solar systems. Yeah, the whites are no longer going to hate the blacks. Instead the saucer-eyes of planet Blackdon are going despise the pale-backs from planet caveworld coming here to steal our work.
About 11 millennia at the very least. That's when the apocalypse known as The Fall happened. Also 1stComm was sending out colony ships full of basically designer babies in order to ensure humanity would never go extinct so there's probably entirely invented ethnic groups.
so what I'm hearing is that we, the players, can come up with entirely NEW forms of racism against new ethnic groups?
Is this a pasta? I remember reading a tirade like this that also started with "mystery meat".
>The fact that this game has been near-completely abandoned just makes it even funnier.
Has it?
this really just sounds like a skill issue with players/GMs not knowing their rules. if you take the time to actually learn what everything does so you dont have to look up every keyword every 5 seconds then it plays lightning fast, and is probably the fastest playing mech RPG out there, i'd even say its faster than D&D since most characters only have a handful of actions or weapons and not an entire half of the book full of spells they have to mull over and reference.
but yeah, if you dont actually remember what the various keywords and effects do, i could see how it could become a referential nightmare.
that said, my group played it with pen and paper, printed character sheets, and miniatures on a table old fashioned style and it was still one of the leanest, fastest RPGs we've played.
>my group played it with pen and paper, printed character sheets, and miniatures on a table old fashioned style and it was still one of the leanest, fastest RPGs we've played.
Frick off, Miguel. And take Tom with you.
No seriously. Check out Interpoint some time. Turns are about 5-10 minutes. If you know you're shit you can reduce that down to 3-5 minutes.
if you know your shit in lancer turns are maybe 30 seconds to a minute.
its a very fast game, like not even fast for a mech game but just generally fast. no handfuls of dice, very few interactions that arent just roll a d20 then roll 1 or 2 d6. the only thing that could really slow it down is if someone needed to take the time to think about a strategy or if someone doesnt know what their various keywords or talents actually do.
or futzing with that somewhat clunky compcon app. we had one guy using compcon from his phone while we were playing at the table and it seemed like the in combat version of compcon was constantly giving him trouble when it came to marking abilities as used, marking status effects, tracking heat, etc. it seemed like he was fighting with the app every 5 minutes. i dont know how much of that was the app and how much was user error, but for those of us using pencil and paper it was noticably faster to just skip the app for anything except mech building
i will say, one big area we found the game lacking though, which as i understand it was by design but i dont think its a good design, was the almost entire lack of rules for out of mech combat/gameplay and RP. there's basically just a handful of "make up whatever skills you want or take these suggested ones we dont give a frick" to handle the RP and like 3 melee weapons, 3 ranged weapons, and a couple space suits for out of mech gear, but pilots out of mechs are so fragile and mechanically non fleshed out that its most of the time not even worth the trouble of playing out. the RP and out of mech failings really made it feel like half a system, and we played it for the better part of a year, so we gave it an honest try
>no RP rules
>in a ttrpg
its perfect for /tg/
>its perfect for /tg/
Its why its so popular, its just a wargame pretending to be a RPG
So what's your favorite frame?
Genghis. Luv me overcharge. Luv me cones. Love me armor. Simple as.
I'm surprised Genghis isn't more popular on Ganker. It practically screams Warcrimes and Genocide with it's TBK munitions.
Also, Second Committee Did Nothing Wrong.
The desperate bumpgayging is really annoying. There's a reason the generals for this died.
To me it's really fascinating. We've had the exactly the same thread with the same posts and posters for years now.
>#solidarity to all the coons here on #georgefloydday
Based. This is what it's about, I won't support any game with nonwhite characters in them
It's incredibly pathetic that these bougie israelite keyboard commies can't write an organic feeling ethnic character to save their lives.
White savior complex, which is highly fricking ironic because that the very thing they continuously rail about.
Reminds me of that Twitter “artist” who made a guide about drawing black people and it basically boiled down to “make them ugly” and it only got praised by other white “artists” while blacks were all like “what the actual frick?”
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Kek they always project man, it's crazy. Frick 'em, too bad they fricked up.
None of these are issues with the actual game at all...
The core problem with Lancer's gameplay is that all the "mech-ish" mechanics are gimmicks extraneously tacked on to a generic 4e successor. Abby's mech designs are often criticized for looking like guys in suits rather than actual robots, but it's also true of the gameplay: the mecha elements feel like a paintjob of homebrew over a standard system.
It's not impossible to make mecha action feel mechanically unique. Compare: FFG Star Wars has fun star fighter rules that make piloting feel distinct from on-foot combat. Battletech (more autistic) and Nechronica (less autistic) both have ingenious part based character construction, damage, and ability systems which hammer in that you're not playing flesh and blood humans. Mekton Zeta has you connecting and armoring servo units to determine robot form and function.
But forging a flavorful system requires creativity and building from the ground up. Lancer's designers didn't do that and they aren't creative. Just look at how it rips off BT's "heat" mechanic: abstractly identical to BT's version, allowing extra actions in exchange for gaining heat which can force a dangerous table roll...but Battletech's heat management was deep and flavorful because it was elegantly woven into the entire game, from mech construction and damage to hit location and shooting systems. Lancer on the other hand clumsily tacks it on as a single janky resource divorced from everything else and so abstract that you could just as easily refluff it as "strain" in a fantasy game.
Every mechanic in Lancer is like this. I swear there wasn't a single one I thought was interesting enough to even be worth ripping off for a mecha homebrew. It's so fricking GENERIC and BORING. You don't get anything out of this game that you couldn't get by making your own mecha splat in Savage Worlds or GURPS or Genesys. Hell, you'd probably get a more refined game with actual out-of-combat rules and that doesn't expect you to use a program to automate a chunk of combat.
As for the setting, I'm not going to talk about it as much because it doesn't matter nearly as much. If the gameplay wasn't mediocre it'd be easy enough to refluff, but the gameplay is mediocre so the setting is just one more hinderance to having fun. I'm also not going to talk about politics at all either because regardless of where you stand on the political alignment chart relative to it, Lancer's setting is objectively poorly written and I'm not going to give its defenders the chance to derail criticisms into political shitposting.
The main problem with the setting is that fundamentally it wants to be a sincerely optimistic Star Trek style post-scarcity utopian science fiction, but on the other hand it ALSO wants to be edgy cyberpunk filled with evil megacorp arms-manufacturers ruling everything. It doesn't take an autistic genre purist to understand that these ideas are logically incompatible and the books commitment to trying to have its utopian cake and dystopically eat it too results in a flood of WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS trying to drown out your common sense in hopes that you miss all the flagrant contradictions and plot holes.
There's more complaints that could be said like how the actual fricking big robots are incorporated into the setting, what the frick pc's are actually supposed to do, the lack of actual stakes or things to give a frick with, numerous shit that just feels tossed in. But I don't feel like thinking about this garbo writing any more than I have to. Trying to parse the book feels like a fever dream (and not the good kind of fever dream like a Takahashi anime final arc).
It's honestly the worst professional published "pay money for it" settings I've ever seen in a ttrpg. It sucks as a mecha setting, a ttrpg setting, and there's nothing worth salvaging from it that you couldn't get better by just writing your own setting.
The funny thing is, the "crapsack world" portion of the setting works the best. The actual vidya in the Lancer setting, Citizen Sleeper, is really competent at showing how scummy and awful it can be to live in the hypercapitalist portion of the setting and how you can struggle endlessly to achieve a sorta okay life and outcomes for the people you care about. Then again, it also has nothing to do with mecha and is purely personal scale.
It's weird how the psycho internet commies somehow manage to make great cutthroat capitalism simulators. They have to know that there's frick all for player characters to even do in their dream utopia.
>The actual vidya in the Lancer setting, Citizen Sleeper,
is this your headcanon, because that's an original setting that doesn't have much to do with LANCER to begin with
Dude, it mentions Lancers and the Union specifically.
Pure headcanon.
Forgot to quote you on
Anyway putting my central complaint with the game another way:
Imagine you browse /tg/ for 5e homebrew, and you pick up a fricking...oh I don't know, frickin' Bloodborne splat for frickin' D&D. It has a whole bunch of gimmicky shit to represent quickstepping around or transforming weapons, but no matter how innocently passionate the dev is about bloodborne, at the end of the day it's 5e homebrew: it's gimmicky abstract shit layered atop system that was complete without it and you probably wouldn't even know it's meant to represent what it does if not for the fluff.
That's the mecha elements in Lancer. Nothing is particularly flavorful. Nothing really makes you feel like your character is piloting something or that your mechs are truly inorganic entities. There are ATTEMPTS, but those attempts are like that Bloodborne fansplat above: too shallow, too abstract, too clunky and you wouldn't know the difference if they were renamed or fluffed to something else.
If you're going to play something that generic, you're better off playing Battle Century G. I have no interest in running / playing that one since a lot of the same complaints I have about Lancer apply to that system, but at the very least it's a slightly less unwieldy system with less overhead, and knows what it wants to be. Also OUT OF COMBAT SHIT DOKO.
But neither game can hold a candle design wise to stuff like Infinity, Battletech, Princess Wing, Nechronica, hell even Star Wars FFG. Those are games which have actually unique, flavorful mechanics woven into the core of their systems, and you can't even pluck them out to steal them because they're attached to everything else in the game. Try to rip off Nechronica's part system and you immediately run into the problem of it being intimately designed around its hit location system, and its attack checks, and everything else in the game. Same with Infinity and its Reaction system, or Princess Wings armor part system.
What if I want easy to understand rules for piloting small scale fantasy mechs that are meant to work like giant suits of armor for my pathfinder 2e game?
>abstractly identical to BT's version, allowing extra actions in exchange for gaining heat which can force a dangerous table rol
So you don't understand Battletech Or Lancer. .
You know what: I'll give it to you that I phrased that weird. Last time I played Battletech was like...3-5 monthes ago (campaign been on hold) and last time I played Lancer was over a year and a half ago. I've played both, but I can understand calling Heat "extra actions" in BT is odd: I know it's more like you simply choose how many weapons mounted on your mech to fire and each one (depending on the weapon type) gives some heat, so calling it "extra actions" or even "extra attacks" are a bit odd if you know the system.
However I'm trying to make an idiot proof two sentence long description of a mechanic so frick you for nitpicking. The actual fricking rulebook even uses the term "Actions" when describing how Overcharge works. Frick you you stupid nitpicking dishonest frick.
Anyway my overall point remains the same: Both games use Heat to mediate the number of attacks performed as well as other options, but Lancer's version is far more abstract and shallow.
TLDR
>creators suck
>fans suck
>art sucks
>fluff sucks
>mechanics suck (dnd is bad and so are you for liking it)
>out of mech rules are non existent (what little is there makes FATE look like GURPS)
>feeling of piloting a mech is non existent
>it shits on the entire idea of mecha as a concept
Lancer might appeal to you if you fall into these categories
>you hate mecha
>you think dnd has the best combat system ever
>you don't mind improving every out of mech action
TLDR: a game by and for people that hate mecha
>>you hate mecha
>>you think dnd has the best combat system ever
>>you don't mind improving every out of mech action
having played the game, my group has changed nothing out of mech
Not that anon but how lite the out-of-combat stuff is is a real sore spot for me. I feel like if you don't have decent on-foot rules for both adventuring and combat, then mechs lose their sense of "empowerment" and "scale" and just contribute to the feeling of mechs just being rpg dudes.
Granted I can understand it not being a big deal if the system works for you overall but for me it's pretty lame overall.
Thats fair enough, my tabletop group leans more into roleplaying and everything so what the book has works for us.
STOP DISLIKING WHAT I LIKE!
like christ I'm looking at the Mechwarrior rules and I gotta roll for every hit's location and armor? christ, what is this, 1970?
Battletech's rpg books are quite infamous, I think it's more accurate to compare Battletech the core wargame to Lancer. Which is funny because Lancer is basically a wargame with how lite the out-of-combat rules are, and the players of both mostly use external programs to deal with the games autism (most people play Battletech these days with Megamek I think, it's probably not as necessary if you don't use advanced rules though. I don't think the core system is THAT convoluted if you put aside optional stuff like weather and WIND DIRECTION).
Also as I alluded in my original post, I think Nechronica is actually an even better point of comparison than Battletech. It's a JTTRPG with very in-depth, crunchy combat, and relatively lite out of combat rules. Like Battletech it has an excellent part based character construction system that's brilliantly tied into the hit rolls, the action economy and timing system, damage system, etc. which does a great job of flavorfully making you feel like you're NOT playing as a normal flesh and blood human. But at the same time it's far less autistic and more pick up and play than Battletech: You can learn the basics just jumping into a single session of combat, that's how intuitive it is despite how "different" the action economy and mechanics are.
Of course, it's also NOT a mecha game and refluffing it to one is heretical, but that hasn't stopped people from joking about how similar the mechanics are to BT on an abstract level.
Anyway that's the kind of standard I'm holding a mecha game too. You're not playing as people, and you're not even playing as robots. You're playing as people piloting big robots. That's very "different" and it should have a "different" system to represent that properly. If you just throw a 4e successor at me with some gimmicks on top I'm going to think that's a bit lame. I think BCG is a bit lame, and that's a far more charismatic and earnest game than Lancer is.
You know what anon, I don't 100% agree with everything you've said, but you've made some really valid arguments here. As someone who's playing a lancer campaign atm, and having an okay time, it's just that: kinda okay. It's fun, because I'm playing with friends and our GM is good and I've done some fun character bits, but I constantly bonk up against the edges of its system and its inability to make me feel like a guy in a big mech. It really hit home when one of our group took a load of damage and lost a bunch of structure over a few turns. What in another system would have been a classic mech moment of losing an arm or a weapon being blown away instead just felt like someone toggling off an ability. This is coming from a guy who quite likes the artstyle and really has no particular bee in my bonnet about the political leanings.
I admit I was hoping that seething "western games can't do mecha" anon to really explode at the mention of BT, the bait obviously wasn't big enough
See anon, I can respect that. If you're playing the game because it's the best option for you or you don't mind the things that activate my 'tism that much, that's understandable.
What really trashpanda fascinates me is guys like this guy:
>Imagine seething so hard about one game on /tg/ you make dozens of shitpost threads
Is this your new "bit" shill? "Every single thread about the game has been made by one guy! Every single person who doesn't like the game is the same guy!"
Once again, remember that everyone can see the fricking poster numbers. You're just outing yourself as a total secondary shill with this one.
I find Lancer fascinating because of how buttblasted this one /tg/ schizo is about it. He's been making and then shitting up threads with himself and only himself for literal years at this point. I know basically nothing about this game except for what I see in the containment threads this moron makes for himself. It's like a zoo.
As someone who hates the game, I can tell you I know another dude who also likes trolling and talking shit about the game in these threads and people who defend the game. It's definitely not just me.
Are you sure it's just one guy, and not a whole bunch of different Anons who gave it a shot hoping it would scratch an itch for mecha then decided the game was actual dogshit?
>Thread says 104 posters
It's almost like shills are new to Ganker and can't read the little number in the corner of the thread.
>i-it's just one guy! i-its gotta be! T-Tom wouldn't fail us like this!
The final cope of the lancertroony, lul
>Someone doesn't know that everyone can see the poster count.
I'm convinced at this point that Lancergays don't play other games, don't watch, read, play, or know any mecha, or even know how Ganker works.
>don't play other games
You can really see this in how the hardcore shills who desperately want to promote the game in these threads respond to any kind of in-depth criticisms of the system. They can't really respond despite wanting to because they don't know half the games it's being compared to or contrasted with, so you get these really seething strawmen and bizarre attempts to derail and change the subject.
You can also catch them lying about watching shows or playing other games too. The guy here who claimed "every game you mentioned is boring and broken!" when one of the games is Japanese and translated only recently and the number of English gm's who've run it is in the single digit range. Or the guy in the previous thread who claimed to be a big fan of Dunbine but (assuming it was the same anon) didn't know how much fanservice there is in it.
Really hope the mods just completely ban discussion of the game and start deleting threads on sight. It's really deserved at this point.
Don't forget the guy who tried to claim Seed was the template for all Gundam and when pressed admitted he hadn't even watched Seed, much less anything else.
Imagine seething so hard about one game on /tg/ you make dozens of shitpost threads about it to try and get it banned, but it still doesn't. Imagine how much of a sad homosexual you'd have to be.
Also imagine what's going to happen to the other mecha thread here once again when the shitposting homosexual gets bored here.
Once again, lancergays can't even say what their game does better than other systems. Opting instead to call critique shitposting.
>p-please engage with the shitposting
Nah, seethe moar.
Would you excpet an answer of it not doing anything better than other systems, but what it's doing is stuff that works and continues to work with in the system?
I guess? It's why I generally give Lancer a 5/10 when the awful setting and general unlikableness of its creators and fanbase isn't factored in. It's playable I guess and the mechanics aren't total dogshit if boring and generic. But if I'm going to play a generic 5/10 game I'd rather play something less autistic and with less overhead. Battle Century G is just as generic as Lancer but it's not so stuffed with gimmicks that you need Comp/Con to run it or level 0 to tutorialize players by making players all play the same mech.
Some people have complained about late-game balance and other factors ruining the experience. I never got that far with Lancer. I generally care more about having interesting/fun mechanics than perfect game balance.
Took me a moment to be sure of what you meant, but no, that's missing the point. I'd like to know what makes Lancer worth playing over other mecha systems (or systems you could hack into mecha). If I've never given Lancer a go but have played other systems, why should I pick it up? Most of those other systems also do stuff that works.
You are correct, like all parasites lancer trash are clearly just here to oy vey and kvetch when they can't shapeshift into fa/tg/uys just by typing a few assblasted reddit posts
One thing I want to point out that I've noticed, but contrary to this anon
most of the guys shitting on the game (myself, and the guy who just posted) are actually saging the thread when they respond, so that it doesn't get bumped or kept alive.
The guys keeping this thread alive are entirely the shills going "NUH UH" from page 9.
I've been thinking of Homebrewing Lancer, since I hate the setting itself but some of the combat rules look kinda easy to understand, though I'm very inexperienced in TTRPG's. I thought of trying out Cthulhutech but the combat didn't seem that fun. I also did take a look at apocalypses frame and it is pretty easy to grasp but I dunno if it has enough long term stuff to do. I really don't like a lot of the mecha designs in Lancer, and in a homebrew I'd probably just use different images instead. I'm looking for a more Front Mission mixed with Cthulhutech like setting. Military Mecha shit and eldritch horrors.
Try Battle Century G. It's a bit generic, like Lancer, but I think it's less convoluted and has less overhead and autism than Lancer.
Putting aside all the stuff that's argued with Lancer and assuming you don't give a shit, a few big problems with Lancer you might consider are:
>Barely any out of combat rules. They're so lite it might as well be free-form. It's basically a war game.
>A lotta autism. Lancer kind of expects you to play with that external program to automate a chunk of character creation and combat.
I'd also recommend not starting at "level one" or whatever it calls it again. Playing a mecha game and being stuck with 1 generic grunt suit is hella lame. It's a design desicion that seems to be only there because they new the mechanics were a bit autistic and it's hard to jump in, so the game has a "tutorial" of forcing you to play a simpler mech before you can unlock any actual choices.
Could the attempts to make this the new general be any sadder? It reminds me of the Solo Leveling threads on Ganker, the desperate attempts to create an organic conversation.
Alright guys what's our hypothetical christmasland mecha homebrew. Let's not pretend anyone is actually going to make it, go balls to the walls with your impossible suggestions.
Why would I suggest anything in this shitshow of a thread?
Why the FRICK would a post scarcity society with 3d-printing matter replicators need ARMS MANUFACTURERS?
>Heh, moron. You clearly know nothing about the setting [smug face]. The book clearly explains how [300 pages of borderline gibberish purple prose technobabble and bureaucratic space neologisms]
GREAT setting.
In setting justifications are perfectly reasonable if they make sense anon.
For example, Mindjammer has:
>The 3D printers are pretty slow when doing complicated shit and while you can make a gun with one of them? You couldn't arm an army. So mass manufacturing still exists for things that are needed in vast quantity or over a certain size. Not many people have a 3D printer that can print a tank.
Remember, if you ignore in-setting explanations you're falling into Thermian territory.
And only fricking homosexuals live in Thermian territory.
>In setting justifications are perfectly reasonable if they make sense anon.
Naruhodo, so just totally not like Lancer's, then?
>Nono, it makes perfect sense! Here's [unreadable page of star trek technobabble and beauacratic space history wank]. If you don't accept that, you're a realism gay!
Damn, I guess I have no choice...I wouldn't want to be [CRINGE REDDIT BUZZWORD] after all...
To give a more serious response:
>The 3D printers are pretty slow when doing complicated shit and while you can make a gun with one of them? You couldn't arm an army. So mass manufacturing still exists for things that are needed in vast quantity or over a certain size. Not many people have a 3D printer that can print a tank.
I am not familiar with Mindjammer so I cannot comment on how moronic this may or may not be in the greater context of its plot or setting, but this is an okay explanation for why your governing body in a post-scarcity star trek ass setting commissions production facilities for mass producing certain things...BUT it's still a fricking moronic justification for having competing !not-cyberpunk megacorps that act as "arms manufacturers" in the traditional sense. You are literally not manufacturing arms, you are manufacturing printers and then flipping a switch. At most you might have "designers" who compete to come up with ideas for cutting edge arms and then sell their schematics to the generic production facilities, but that is far from what Lancer is going for which is trying to be star trek and cyberpunk at the same time.
This is not realism gayging either. Not arguing about the realism of 3d printers. This is just basic common sense about the concept of having magic technology that can zap whatever you need into existence such that SCARCITY ITSELF is "solved".
Don't get confused. The post scarcity isn't a thing by the presence of printers. The post scarcity is a thing because of the automated Union/Communist-Utopia bullshit. You're still feeding raw material of some sort into the printer to run it, it's just assumed you always have the means available because like money, the game skips tracking it. It's suggested in the book as alternate campaign ideas that the party could lose the means to print because of plot or lack of resources and need to hoof in on foot, jerry-rig frankenmechs or bargain with locals etc.
>The post scarcity isn't a thing by the presence of printers. The post scarcity is a thing because of the automated Union/Communist-Utopia bullshit.
This just makes it even more confused: we're post scarcity, but NOT because of the sci-fi idea that makes the idea of total resource abundance feasible...but because...because we just are okay! MAGIC !! Human just pulled itself up by the bootstrap and declared "scarcity don't real" and that was all it took. Great, awesome. I love it.
But wait, then what's even the POINT of the frickin' printers anyway on a meta level? There's a famous fricking quote from Hayao Miyazaki talking about how he thinks its fricking lame when the protaganist of a mecha show doesn't build or tinker with their own mech, so why even do the stupid lame ass 3d printer bullshit (lmao you got a LOICENSE FOR DAT MECH GOV'NA??) if they don't actually fricking matter? Why not just scrap the idea entirely and say that the arms manufacturers...actually manufacture arms? Wow.
But then why have arms manufacturing if you're making commie utopian Star Trek sim? It's almost like the setting is a confused mess because the three writers couldn't decide if they wanted to make Star Trek or Cyberpunk, and ended up with a confused jumble of both that does neither well.
>But then why have arms manufacturing if you're making commie utopian Star Trek sim?
Or I mean, why have evil edgy MEGACORP arms manufacturers in commie utopian star trek? As the guys who make the shit that empowers you no less.
Because if there were no pointlessly evil bad guys who are bad because they go against the commie utopia, the only potential villain you're left with is the totalitarian commie government that has a vice-like grip around all the core worlds and which is somehow without any major faults or problems that would necessitate a rag-tag band of mech-piloting rebels to do anything about the suspiciously perfect state of things in that one specific part of the universe.
You're supposed to fight space banana republic Hitlers or somethin because there's not a whole lot of room for any conflict otherwise. Logically you should get shitstomped instantly when going against any major player.
Oh, and space travel will probably take at least 80 years or something so there's a decent chance any conflict you were flying to might get resolved before you even get there.
I'm pretty sure there is FTL Travel but it's limited to only a select few ships
Oh yeah, and I forgot this!
Why the frick does the book even make the time to ramble about some ships not having FTL? What's the POINT!?
As a friend pointed out, the moment you have people traveling lightyears with non-relativistc travel, you essentially have no setting: your setting will be gone and replaced by a completely different but related one that the gm will have to create the moment you arrive and it's now centuries in the future and everything the book just spent ten bajillion pages rambling about with pretentious wordy-ass pseudo history book writing like pic related will be fricking gone.
Why!? What was the point of that!? They literally just throw shit in. And not even cool shit! Shit that will have no impact on players or gm's and barely even fits into their own setting. GAH
Ships don't have FTL drives. There are no FTL drives. There are blinkgates. You can go from any blinkgate to any other blinkgate in a blink of an eye. The problem is that you have to have a blinkgate at your destination. Some star systems don't have blinkgates yet so it might take a few years to travel nearlight from the nearest blinkgate to the place that needs help. To get around this Union uses GALSIM to position their Lancer teams proactively.
> Some star systems don't have blinkgates yet so it might take a few years to travel
>a few years to travel
It's been a while but I'm pretty sure it's not stated to be "a few years"
Not really. There's quite a few problems with the game beyond the setting. As said earlier, the ultimate problem is it's just a 4e clone with a bunch of gimmicks tacked on that make it somewhat cumbersome to play.
It's a 4e hack that steals some of SotDL's action economy, but it's definitely more 4e than SotDL.
> it's just subjective opinions on how a mech game is supposed to be
I think a mech game should be "more than just a 4e clone"
> There was this one complaint about the game being slow but when other posters said that wasn't their experience and someone posted a video of a turn lasting only 5 minutes he threw a fit.
Nice spin, but people have been saying this game takes a long time to run combats for ages. In this very thread at least 3 people have brought up how it does, and someone linked a reddit thread talking about the same issue.
Yes, any game can be run in 5 minutes. That doesn't mean the game isn't cumbersome or generally slow.
>Other times it's factually wrong claims about the game setting or gameplay.
Arguing with you shills is funny but eventually gets exhausting because you could post a page long essay on one of the games core mechanics, and then you'll respond "YOU JUST HATE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE /misc/" and then pretend you were answered. There's like 10 different complaints about the games core gameplay in this thread which haven't gotten a response besides you gays just calling the person a moron or saying "nuh uh" rather than just admit the game you came here to shill isn't perfect..
> There was this one complaint about the game being slow but when other posters said that wasn't their experience and someone posted a video of a turn lasting only 5 minutes he threw a fit.
Also given how you guys are generally a bunch of lying homosexuals (multiple bullshit has been caught in this thread and the previous one), I'd be willing to bet that didn't actually happen or didn't go down the way you're describing it. But I don't feel like combing tbharchive for garbo lancer threads just to see how hard you're coping.
Here is the fit
And here is the video
lmao
That wasn't HIM throwing a fit.
That was ME getting pissed at your stupid argument.
Quote his original post and I'll show you I'm not him either.
nvm I'll do it for you
As you can see, no (you). I wasn't the guy who said it took a while. I was getting mad because you made the stupid, bullshit, sophistry argument to shut him down when he and an entire thread of people he linked to had this problem with the game. And then you called him a moron on top of it.
homosexual.
How embarassing! You've outed yourself. We gave 5 differing opinions to yours and you created a 5 paragraph essay on how mad that made you. Rather than look into each post, you instead declared that any opinion other than yours was bullshit and that everyone else was a liar.
It's like you can't stand to have people disagree with you.
Did you read which responses those were? Those weren't all responses from "you guys". Some of them were literally the guy who initially posted about the game explaining that, no, his players aren't brain damaged morons and he's run complex games before.
Stumbling on a game like Lancer is a bit of an indicator otherwise.
Do you think they're using Comp/Con?
>It's been a while but I'm pretty sure it's not stated to be "a few years"
Lancer has nearlight travel so the trip from Earth to Alpha Centauri would be about 12 years.
>I think a mech game should be "more than just a 4e clone"
It is. Bare minimum it's a Battletech/4E hybrid due to the Heat mechanic but Battletech doesn't have Tech attacks.
>Nice spin, but people have been saying this game takes a long time to run combats for ages. In this very thread at least 3 people have brought up how it does, and someone linked a reddit thread talking about the same issue.
The problem is that people have been saying it's smooth and fast for just as long. Who do we believe? Well,
posted a vid with turns lasting about 5 minutes.
>Arguing with you shills is funny but eventually gets exhausting because you could post a page long essay on one of the games core mechanics, and then you'll respond "YOU JUST HATE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE /misc/" and then pretend you were answered. There's like 10 different complaints about the games core gameplay in this thread which haven't gotten a response besides you gays just calling the person a moron or saying "nuh uh" rather than just admit the game you came here to shill isn't perfect..
I mean, it's not an unwarranted claim after
>It is. Bare minimum it's a Battletech/4E hybrid due to the Heat mechanic but Battletech doesn't have Tech attacks.
No it's absolutely not.
The action economy, turn system, hit locations and damage/part system, directional facing, etc. is NOTHING like Battletech. It's a 4e clone with a bunch of abstract gimmicks and resources appended on to make it seem "mech-ish" but are ultimately shallow because all they really are is a bunch of 4e homebrew
If you actually think the game is anything like Battletech because it appends a resource called "heat" onto it, you are even more clueless regarding TTRPG's and the medium as a whole then I thought.
>posted a vid with turns lasting about 5 minutes.
Again, so?
The most yoked up overloaded GURPS wargame could run rounds in 5 minutes if you have everyone specifically autist. Posting a dude playing the game fast doesn't invalidate that.
>Who do we believe?
lmao
How about the people who genuinely wanted to like the game, but found it a little slow? Do you think they're all LYING to try and sack your precious little game?
>The action economy, turn system, hit locations and damage/part system, directional facing, etc. is NOTHING like Battletech. It's a 4e clone with a bunch of abstract gimmicks and resources
Then by your own admission it's more than a 4E clone.
>How about the people who genuinely wanted to like the game, but found it a little slow? Do you think they're all LYING to try and sack your precious little game?
>No, Your LYING. I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR PROOF
I don't have to lie. All I asked was who do we believe? The one with proof or the one without?
Logically, you know the video is proof but you also committed to Lancer being slow. Your emotions are conflicting with your logic and that's causing an uncomfortable cognitive dissonance.
You should take a break. It's not healthy to get this worked up about a game and there will be other Lancer threads.
>Then by your own admission it's more than a 4E clone.
A 4e clone with some secondary gimmicks layered over the core system is still a 4e clone.
Let's give an example: suppose I take Nechronica, add in several new mechanics, maybe take out one of them (let's say the madness mechanic), refluff the parts and add new ones.
Is that still a Nechronica clone? Yes. It still has the feng shui action clock. It still has the same timing system. It still plays exactly the same and is built off the same template and base.
Now let's say I build a game from scratch. Instead of a feng shui action clock, I use an action system mixing Infinity's action tokens with Paladium's use of actions for extra attacks and dodges. Suppose I use a completely different die (let's say 3d6), and devise a completely different hit system.
That's not a Nechronica clone.
> The one with proof or the one without?
It's not proof.
If I show you a video of me rushing through a turn in 5 minutes for Battletech, does that mean Battletech isn't an autistic game with a shit ton to keep track of that generally takes a long ass time to run?
Or maybe it means that any game can be run fast if you're autistic enough? If someone sayd a vidya is slow, does posting a speedrunner clipping through floors at mach 9 invalidate that?
I know Lancer is slow because I played it, and it ran slow. I also know because you can objectively tell its slow just by looking at the mechanics, how many resources it has, how many numbers it has to keep track of for players, enemies, terrain, blalh blah, how many ineractions it has, how many reactions it has, etc. etc.
It's got a lot going on. And that makes a game slow to run in many cases. That's not even nessicarily a bad thing, Battletech is slow, and Battletech is fun. But it is slow.
And again I'm sure you can run it fast, but that doesn't mean it's not a fiddly game with lots of resources and overhead.
>Do you think they're all LYING
No, I think they're moronic and incompetent.
Okay I found the excerpt I was thinking of
>might take a few years
>a future [...] without the familiar comforts of friends and family, not to mention THE STATS, CULTURES, AND ENVIRONMENTS THEY HAVE COME TO KNOw
Again, why is this in the setting? Why is this just thrown in?
The moment you add time dilation shit like this to the setting, you have no setting. If you use this, you are literally asking the GM to toss out the setting and make a new one related to it. What's the fricking point.
Frick forgot the screencap.
>Logically you should get shitstomped instantly when going against any major player.
This is a really awful phrase to hear in a fricking mecha game. A game about piloting giant godmachines, and you aren't expected to make meaningful change.
>Because if there were no pointlessly evil bad guys who are bad because they go against the commie utopia
But even THAT makes no sense because commie utopia works with the evil megacorps! Except when they don't!
Man why does it have to be so fricking convoluted. If they wanted commie utopia vs evil facists why not just say "okay so you're star trek dudes and you go to explore other places and you end up invaded by evil facist rubber forehead aliens or a splinter group of humanity that got lost in space." Boom, easy. Simple.
Instead we have hundreds of fricking pages of confused bullshit about space beauacracy, 3d printer technobabble which somehow has little influence on the setting, a bunch of factions that have no reason to be factions or have the relationships that they do, etc. None of which matters to players or makes any fricking sense if you take the time to parse it all.
Seriously, WHY!? Why couldn't they just write something straightforward instead of this convoluted wank? Oh I know why: they wanted to make a cyberpunk game then someone decided it should be star trek, then they reminded them it also had to be cyberpunk with giant robots, so they just threw a bunch of shit at the wall and glued the cracks together with WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS.
The official stance is that even if you accomplish something meaningful it was all a simulation anyway so it don't matter in the end.
Also
>You're still feeding raw material of some sort into the printer to run it
This STILL fails to explain why you need specialized "arms manufacturers" to produce robots when the extent of "manufacturing" would be dumping raw resources into large scale versions of a common and wide spread technology.
FRICK I know I'm responding and samegayging so many times to the same post but the more I think about this the more fricked it gets.
>But wait, then what's even the POINT of the frickin' printers anyway on a meta level?
>it's just assumed you always have the means available
Now I know someone is going to say the point of 3d printers is so that you can swap mechs at any time, but if "it's just assumed you always have the means available" then why even bother with THAT? Why not just assume you always have some some way of getting ahold of them? Again what is even the point of the stupid fricking magic matter printers? It 's such an inherently lame idea that trivializes the coolness of robot engineers and adds so much convoluted nonsense to the setting and then you tell me it's not even being used for the one integral concept that it'd actually make sense being used for.
GAAAAAAAAAAH the more I think about this stupid setting the more my head hurts. What the frick bizzaro design process lead to this clusterfrick
> What the frick bizzaro design process lead to this clusterfrick
"I sure do like big cool robots"
"Worldbuilding? Of course we did! We have a factions that are big megacorporations, we have a forward thinking utopia the players can work for, we can have it so the players are able to make as many mechs as we need, since this society is post scarcity."
"... What? What do you mean 'that invalidates the megacorps'? Dude they're SEPARATE factions! what do you think i'm a fricking idiot?"
oh and if forgot to add:
> Eh? Logistics? oh who gives a shit about that. Plus it limits player creativity, its lame. we won't include that. In fact we'll make sure the printers i mention are the explanation for why we're avoiding it. God i feel smart!
>"I sure do like big cool robots"
I don't think anyone involved with Lancer ever once uttered this phrase.
>Dude they're SEPARATE factions!
They're not though. The megacoros apparently work for the post-scarcity commietopia and this makes sense because...IT JUST DOES, OKAY??!
I remember one time being told that the writers had never watched any mecha anime and deliberately did not watch any for research or inspiration when writing the setting, because they thought that would make them more unique and original (it didn't).
You'd be correct. Even fricking Gen:Lock is more mecha than Lancer
Actually, you'll get penalized if you use the Printers too much. It was actually a feature in No Room For A Wallflower.
That's what repair points and reserves are for. If you're creative you can get spare repair points or even extra tools from Reserves.
It's an imperfect utopia. Only the core worlds are post-scarcity and only for their needs, not their wants.
I see reading is hard for you. No worries, I shall explain anything you don't understand.
>had to add a whole ass expansion to create currency and consequences
L M A O
What a joke of a game and a setting
Actually, these concepts were introduced in the Core rulebook but weren't expanded on until Long Rim. I believe they wanted to keep it short so that the book wasn't overwhelming to the literacy-disadvantaged.
>concepts
>but not mechanics
>you know, what you need to run a GAME
L M A O
What a joke of a game and a setting
if the game is bad, then I like a bad game. I do however have fun playing the bad game, and I believe that is what matters.
The lore is fricking terrible I'm not sure how you can read it and think it's good.
As an anon who criticized Lancer closer to the top of the thread for slow combats, let me say that 95% of the lore complaints in this thread are built off of reading the text in the worst possible framing, and some include outright fabrications or mistakes. I don't even like the lore, but it is doing part of its job here by triggering people so hard that they write up a novel every Lancer thread about how much they hate the commies. Union isn't supposed to be portrayed as 100% in the right, it's barely subtext. Union is explicitly compromising on its moral ideals in order to hold onto power, and is not the incoherent leftist wet dream people are portraying it as in this thread. The Lancer setting is one that is perhaps a few steps away from utopia but is also dangerously close to falling backwards into Second Committee style corpo-fascism. Almost like they designed the setting to have conflict so your robots could get out there and fight baddies.
> let me say that 95% of the lore complaints in this thread are built off of reading the text in the worst possible framing, and some include outright fabrications or mistakes.
Have you considered that that's because the setting is far more convoluted and autistic then it needs to be, the book is overly long, and the writing and prose in general is shit (partly because of the incredibly poorly handled "in-universe historical text" writing style)?
Or maybe it's because the book actually contradicts itself and has numerous plot holes that are papered over by WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS?
>about how much they hate the commies
The last few posts do not even bring up politics as a complaint, just that the basic premise is convoluted nonsense full of crap it doesn't need and could be written in a far more economical way.
>The Lancer setting is one [whole lotta fellating of MUH UTOPIA without addressing any of the basic complaints about shit not making sense or being moronic]
Shill confirmed. I'm sure you're not the poster you're claiming to be either.
>Almost like they designed the setting to have conflict so your robots could get out there and fight baddies.
And it fricking fails at that. Hard.
>Or maybe it's because the book actually contradicts itself and has numerous plot holes that are papered over by WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS?
In other words, you found something that looks like a contradiction and you won't accept any other answer? If you're going to act stupid then we are going to treat you like you're stupid.
>we
Who? Your discord friends? Way to yourself.
I know it's comforting to think that only one other person has seen your shame but you have to remember that Ganker is a public site and this thread is a public thread. Your behavior is on public display.
>Ad hominem instead of addressing the points brought up in the entire thread about Lancer's flaws
What a surprise.
No,no. I just thought I'd be courteous to a young child. It wasn't even an Ad Hominem like
Being called out for using plural pronouns that indicate there's more than person 'defending' this game isn't ad hominem.
All in all this thread, like many others about Lancer, goes to show that the developers and their fans can't take valid criticism. The responses are either attacks against the person providing said criticism (which is a child's response) or responses that boil down to complete 'no, name some actual flaws'.
You made a mechanically inept game, as pointed out by the numerous posters in this thread. I'd suggest trying again in the future, but it seems you don't have the capacity to accept valid critiques, so I'm sure whatever else you put out will be just as poorly conceived. Thankfully, I don't have to be subjected to this terrible system since my group played two sessions of it and dropped it due to its glaring problems.
>my group played two sessions of it and dropped it due to its glaring problems.
My group ran it in a custom sci-fantasy setting (dunbine / escaflowne ish). Our first session of combat was an absolutely MISERABLE slog. Second session was better after we'd learned the ropes and got past the newbie traps, but wasn't particularly fun. By the third session we were just kinda done with it though and never bothered to finish the big climactic boss fight.
We liked our setting and characters though so we're probably gonna run it in another system some day. Probably Genesys since FFG vehicle rules are great.
I think the thing that really gets me about the experience though is that we didn't even really come away with any inspiration or ideas we'd like to steal for the game for our own homebrew.
Like the whole reason I even agreed to play the game was because - while I didn't like the sound of its core mechanics - I thought maybe there might be some interesting mech-ish mechanics that might inspire my own games. But nope. There's literally nothing even worth stealing. It's just really generic and autistic tactical war game that doesn't really feel like a mech game.
I have a weekly online group that rotates through various game systems so we aren't always playing Pathfinder. The guy who suggested Lancer liked the concept of BattleTech, but found it mechanically overwhelming and thought this was simpler. It is, in a technical sense, but many of the options are pointless or near useless, like lock-on. That and the initiative is just silly and wastes time.
He was really disappointed, but we discuss all of the games we play in detail and specify the problems. The RNG and the initiative mechanics were the two biggest factors as to why we quit.
>pointless or near useless, like lock-on. That and the initiative is just silly and wastes time.
Oh yeah this is another huge newbie killer problem with the game.
The game has such an autistic laundry list of options you can choose. Scanning, lock on, grappling, two different types of attacks, many more. We had a little cheat sheet, but it still gave everyone decision paralyses on the first session and made the game "feel" more complicated and overwhelming then it was. Eventually we got over it and just knew how to spam the one optimal option every time, but it's still not exactly good game design. Compare how Tokyo Nova makes "blockading" enemies in your melee range automatic, or how Princess Wing makes collision attacks automatic as well when an effect would cause you to occupy an enemies grid location. Lot of Lancer's options could be trimmed or combined or made context sensitive.
Ironically despite how overwhelming it was, I didn't have this problem at all with Battletech in Megamek. The games tactics are thoughtful but actually fairly intuitive and the ramifications of actions are immediately obvious.
I think you hit the nail on the head with it "feeling" more complicated than it actually is, but still not being fast. "Lock on" could be renamed "Aim" or "Assist" or "Bonus" and be instantly more obviously a +1 modifier to the average person, for example. A large chunk of the tactical actions just feel bolted on for most mech builds. Over the last 3 sessions I've played in my mates campaign I don't think I've ever used anything other than Barrage, Boost, Skirmish and maaaybe one or two lock ons. What's the point in all these options if they're not interesting. SOTDL, which Lancer's combat is based off, makes the 4 or 5 different flavours of "hit guy" all actually do slightly different things that are better in different situations.
Yeah, exactly. It's not very refined or elegant, especially if you compare it to something like Infinity. I think a lot of these problems are ultimately a result of it being more or less built off other games rather than starting from scratch with specific goals. Things just don't feel woven together organically and so all these options feel gimmicky and extraneous.
>looks like a contradiction and you won't accept any other answer?
I think if someone discovers what they consider to be a plot hole or an illogical contradiction in a story, they are free to judge whether whatever handwave is provided actually solves the problem, is logical, or just sufficiently entertaining enough to be a valid excuse.
Just saying "there's an answer, you gotta accept it!" makes you sound like a reddit basedboy. The quality of the writing is what's in question, and if the "answer" is even stupider then the question, then I don't see any reason to not say the writing is shit.
>If you're going to act stupid then we are going to treat you like you're stupid.
>IF YOU DUN LIKE THE 3D PRINTER GAME UR STOOOOPID
Again, and you guys WONDER why nobody likes this game, nobody likes your fanbase, and every one of these threads turns into a shitshow.
Maybe you could try not being a douchebag?
>I think if someone discovers what they consider to be a plot hole or an illogical contradiction in a story, they are free to judge whether whatever handwave is provided actually solves the problem, is logical, or just sufficiently entertaining enough to be a valid excuse.
Which would be the case if you actually found one.
>Just saying "there's an answer, you gotta accept it!" makes you sound like a reddit basedboy.
It's more "Here is the answer, will you accept it or not?"
>Again, and you guys WONDER why nobody likes this game, nobody likes your fanbase, and every one of these threads turns into a shitshow.
No, You don't like the game and You don't like the fanbase. Which raises the question of why you are still here.
If you were a rational adult and simply didn't like the game you'd just hide the thread and move on. You have not. This either means you are so overwhelmed with irrational hatred that the mere presence of a Lancer thread on Ganker drives you to post or you have no life and must troll.
>It's more "Here is the answer, will you accept it or not?"
Okay, let's go motherfricker.
Why are there 3d printers in general? I mean that on a meta level. What do they genuinely ADD to the setting?
On one hand, it's been stated that - unlike Star Trek - they don't actually cause the "post-scarcity" element of the setting. One would expect them to be the justification for such a wild dream of sudden resource abundance and independence. But apparently no.
So why add them to the setting then, when part of the goal of the setting is to have cyberpunk influences with a bunch of evil megacorps that all have their own mecha styles and aesthetics? By making all the mechs 3d printed rather than BUILT by hand, you have essentially killed any reason for their to be artisanal arms manufacturers. Instead you have a bunch of glorified garbage men feeding scrap to an array of giant 3d printers to produce mechs. And now you have to write hundreds of pages to justify how this works.
Again, why? Why not cut the fat. Why not make the setting more simple and intuitive. Why not ditch the fricking printers and have the arms manufacturers...actually manufacture arms?
What does ADD. What benefit is this for GM's and Players creating a scenario? It's also been stated that money and access to the printers is not tracked for players, so you can't say that it's purely for convenience of printing a mech whenever.
What is THE FRICKING POINT of this lame fricking concept that only convolutes the setting and removes the coolness of dudes building big robots?
>Why are there 3d printers in general? I mean that on a meta level. What do they genuinely ADD to the setting?
Because it wouldn't be possible to make some mechs. Some frames break the rules of physics. Some are impossible things using technology that can destroy worlds. Some can not be comprehended by mortal minds at all. Trying to answer how you get these things to a player causes a lot of plotholes and contradictions so instead they just automate the process. The 3D printer has no idea how any of the mechs work and doesn't need to know. it just follows the instructions and ignores how they don't make sense.
>Because it wouldn't be possible to make some mechs. Some frames break the rules of physics. Some are impossible things using technology that can destroy worlds. Some can not be comprehended by mortal minds at all.
Do you know how many mech series have robots that fit that description, but are not made with fricking 3d printers? Do you know how much crazy shit there is in Super Robot Wars OG's, none of which relies on "3d printers" to handwave?
And do you know how moronic that is?
"normal humans can't build this non-euclidan cthulhu mech that breaks the laws of physics, but a 3d printer (which obeys the laws of physics) can : ) "
See this is what I mean. You gave an explanation. It was both moronic, and UNCOOL. In fact it was so lame you actually just LOWERED my opinion of the game even further than if you just ignored me.
>Trying to answer how you get these things to a player causes a lot of plotholes
Or you could actual world building and come up with cool reasons for these mechs to exist, factions for the players to belong to, etc.
Instead you opt for a worldbuilding explanation that instead breaks the basic logic of the setting and requires lots of plotholes and contradictions and 300 pages of technobabble to explain how you have "arms manufacturers" that exist solely to feed 3d printers.
>Do you know how many mech series have robots that fit that description, but are not made with fricking 3d printers? Do you know how much crazy shit there is in Super Robot Wars OG's, none of which relies on "3d printers" to handwave?
Do you WANT a super robot game? Go play a super robot game.
>"normal humans can't build this non-euclidan cthulhu mech that breaks the laws of physics, but a 3d printer (which obeys the laws of physics) can : ) "
Strawman, I said we couldn't comprehend it not that we couldn't build it. A human would ask questions about what they were doing and would either go mad or obtain godly power.
>Do you WANT a super robot game? Go play a super robot game.
homosexual, you JUST fellated how your game has eldritch physics defying mechs that the human mind cannot comprehend.
Bullshit a category as is, you are literally in the same realm as SRW OG's. But OG's actually has fun explanations for units like Cybuster and how they came to be, instead of taking all the magic out of it with 3d printers that only serve to over convolute the basic concept of the setting.
>Strawman, I said we couldn't comprehend it not that we couldn't build it. A human would ask questions about what they were doing and would either go mad or obtain godly power.
Who frickin cares? Have it built by blindfolded order of hermetic monks or some shit! Have it built by aliens or forged by eldritch robots! You have literally chosen the lamest and wonkiest possible explanation for your super robots which still breaks half your setting and nessictated endless convolution.
>homosexual, you JUST fellated how your game has eldritch physics defying mechs that the human mind cannot comprehend.
Still a real robot series. Gundam pulled it off too and everyone agrees it's the origin of the Real Robot Genre.
>You have literally chosen the lamest and wonkiest possible explanation for your super robots which still breaks half your setting and nessictated endless convolution.
How does it break the setting?
>Still a real robot series.
Real Robot vs Super Robot is a bullshit concept that was only invented by SRW. It's decently useful as a shorthand, but in truth most shows that aren't exclusive to the 70's have many elements of both.
>Gundam pulled it off too and everyone agrees
0079 does not have physics defying eldrtich cthulhu mechs that cannot be comprehended by the mortal minds
>How does it break the setting?
I explained that already.
The core problem is that you want to have megacorps arms manufacturers that all have their own cultures and produce unique mechs with different aesthetics.
But this idea falls apart when they are not actually building the mechs in any real sense but just feeding raw scrap material to 3d printers to vomit out mechs.
Now of course you can make an "explanation" for how we still have "arms manufacturers" who LITERALLY do not manufacture arms. But you've made the setting and this basic, simple, easy concept so much more complicated, convoluted, and autistic than if you just said "yeah there are no 3d printers, the manufactuers actually (gasp) build and manufacture it themselves, that's why they're still useful and thriving and kept around"
And why? because you couldn't bullshit an explanation for wanting cthulhu mechs in your "real robot" setting that was more interesting than "lol 3d printers don't go insane".
>Real Robot vs Super Robot is a bullshit concept that was only invented by SRW.
No.
Yes.
It was never a hard line in the sand in Japan. EArly 70's shows were more super hero oriented, and then mil-sci shows became popular. But even the super hero shows started incorporating more "realism" and mil-sci elements, while many mil-sci and "realism" shows started dabbling in fantasy and supernatural elements.
It's borderline meaningless a term, and I'm pretty sure that yes, the exact term was infact invented by SRW in order to distinguish certain types of very thematically clashing units.
>Now of course you can make an "explanation" for how we still have "arms manufacturers" who LITERALLY do not manufacture arms. But you've made the setting and this basic, simple, easy concept so much more complicated, convoluted, and autistic than if you just said "yeah there are no 3d printers, the manufactuers actually (gasp) build and manufacture it themselves, that's why they're still useful and thriving and kept around"
First off, they sell licenses, not actual guns. Do you think it makes sense to ship guns knowing it'll take years to get there? They could create a factory to build the machines to build the guns before the shipment full of guns ever arrives!
Second, 3D printers are rare and in high demand. Due to copy degradation you can't use a 3D printer to make a 3D printer. Every time you get a new mech you're bumping something off the print queue. It could be a nuclear reactor or a mobile surgical suite or a server farm. In Long Rim you need to barter for access to one and in NRFAW you'll hinder the colony's development if you go back for more mechs.
>First off, they sell licenses
Yes, that makes perfect sense! The ARMS MANUFACTURERS do not MANUFACTURE anything...they don't sell arms...they sell...liscenses?
Okay yes, they're basically the space dmv. Perhaps now you're starting to understand why people find the setting so lame and painfully uncool.
>Do you think it makes sense to ship guns knowing it'll take years to get there?
We just had a post saying how you have blinkgates that transport shit instantly.
>Second, 3D printers are rare and in high demand.
Literally why? Is this some 40k shit where nobody is allowed to make more of them because it's lost technology?
Again, on a meta level why not just simplify everything and say you're spooky scary eldritch mechs were uncovered from spooky scary eldritch ruins on an alien planet or made by a society of blind esoteric monks or forged by scary spooky ai robot men instead of doing this 3d printer shit and then having to figure out all these further justifications for not making the 3d printers OP or invalidating things like "arms manufacturers" when you coulda just gone for a simpler, cooler, and more parsimonious setting mechanic?
>Second, 3D printers are rare and in high demand
So you're saying that in your post scarcity setting, a vital tool is...scarce? ¬‿¬
>homosexual, you JUST fellated how your game has eldritch physics defying mechs that the human mind cannot comprehend.
>Still a real robot series. Gundam pulled it off too and everyone agrees it's the origin of the Real Robot Genre.
This is just as funny as the guy who thought Seed was the template for all Gundam. There is time travel in one Gundam series that came out in the 2010's. Otherwise even G-Gundam, the "campy super robot wuxia themed kung fu gundam alternate universe" did not have reality warping mechs.
>but it is doing part of its job here
It's rather telling to admit the game's lore exists solely to "trigger the chuds" rather than be fun, engaging, or even just halfway coherent. If you consider your game's job to look like a festering pile of shit of shit to anyone even so much as slightly right of Mao, then mission accomplished I guess. No wonder the game was a pump'n'dump scam failure.
The game can't even agree on whatever the frick it wants to be
They haven't even finished the first campaign for this trainwreck, and they never will.
No, the game knows what it wants to be. The devs are just being courteous in giving you wiggle room if you don't like what Union stands for. You're free to run a game as mercenaries or Corpostate soldiers.
Are you saying that Capitalism hasn't also killed people? More to the point, what about Union is Communist? It still has money (manna) and still has corporations (IPSN, Harrison Armory, Smith -Shimano Corp, etc.). The only thing communist about it is that people have a constitutional right to food, water, and shelter no matter how poor they are.
>the game knows what it wants to be
Yeah, a scam and a flop
Would Lancer be a better game if you just chucked the lore into the trash bin and started from scratch?
It'd still be a shitty hack of SotDL, so no not really
Depends on your political leanings and how good you are at worldbuilding.
What’s a good mech RPG system other than Lancer? Not too interested in battletech from the aesthetic standpoint as I’m more of a fan of a mixture of fast mechs that can fly and sturdy tanky mechs to pilot.
I'm not reading all this but it's funny how all the lancertrannies can do is screech NO U when confronted with their shitpile of a game.
You mean like how
called someone a liar out of pure frustration?
You guys have lied countless times in these threads. The last one had multiple dudes lying about shows they haven't watched and caught in the lie later. This very thread had a guy claim that "every system you listed is boring!" when he couldn't possible have played one of them considering it's a Japanese game translated last year with the number of gm's who've run it being countable on one finger. It's very known that the shills in this thread just say shit or spin shit.
And they were indeed wrong in this case. The guy who "threw a fit" was not the guy who posted how his group took a long a time to run turns sometimes.
Apparently the developers thought people would "stumble on it" otherwise they wouldn't have needed compcon, and they wouldn't have needed to limit you to choosing one mech at LL0.
>when he couldn't possible have played one of them considering it's a Japanese game translated last year with the number of gm's who've run it being countable on one finger.
Or he could read japanese and pirated a copy.
>You guys have lied countless times in these threads.
When?
>Apparently the developers thought people would "stumble on it" otherwise they wouldn't have needed compcon, and they wouldn't have needed to limit you to choosing one mech at LL0.
So all that and the players are still stumbling?
>Or he could read japanese and pirated a copy.
Look me in the eye and tell me you genuinely believe he did that and wasn't bullshitting.
He also failed to respond when someone else asked him to genuinely explain his criticism with one of the other Japanese games mentioned.
>So all that and the players are still stumbling?
Maybe they aren't stumbling?
Maybe the game - you know like most wargames, which Lancer is - takes a long time to run?
Even Battletech takes like 5 hours to run a game with everyone in Megamek. Sure, you could do turns in 5 minutes if everyone is super autistic and super focused, but that's definitely not how most people are going to run it.
>Maybe the game - you know like most wargames, which Lancer is - takes a long time to run?
Honestly I think this in itself is another reason why people tend to bounce off the game hard. It advertises itself as an rpg (if you read the fine print it calls itself an rpg wargame hybrid or something like that IIRC) and people go in expecting rpg battles and rpg pacing and scenarios, and instead get something closer to a wargame with all the autism that a wargame implies.
Ironically given it's a 4e clone, pretty sure this is also why people bounced off of 4e hard at the time.
>Look me in the eye and tell me you genuinely believe he did that and wasn't bullshitting.
Doesn't matter what you believe, what matters is what you can prove. Can you prove he was lying? Can you prove he didn't know japanese? No. You can believe what you want. I only care about what you can prove.
>Maybe the game - you know like most wargames, which Lancer is - takes a long time to run?
That would have an ounce of truth if not for the videos.
?si=K3CZVhJrfWhsLwoE&t=1365
Interpoint station hosts daily games where we can clearly see the game done quickly and smoothly with a party that often has never played with each other before. In this video we can clearly see that a 6 round game can be done in under an hour and a half. What's more, this video isn't unique.
?si=9zZsFBb1WVS74mZ3
?si=mRLfOW1JGXTZcqt4
?si=zKPnTJT54koH29yN
So can YOU prove me wrong or are YOU the liar?
>first response is LITERALLY a NO U
Lmao I rest my case
Your mech's arm got shot off? Sleep it off with a long rest!
Don't worry, the 4e clone totally has DEEP flavorful mechanics to represent mecha stuff!!
Honestly this post
where adding a generic resource called "heat" onto a game makes it a Battletech hybrid really speaks to the kind of mindset that Lancergays have. These the kind of guys who would see no problem with trying to run Battletech in 5e. Just homebrew a "heat" stat to it 🙂
Mech games should have narrative structures instead of simulation structures. Someone go adapt Legends of the Wulin
>It's a bit like how the Mindflayers and Abboleths add a touch of horror to D&D.
Maybe Lancer should stop trying to be like D&D and more like a mecha rpg.
Honestly, it's more like Cthulhutech than D&D a far as settings go but I doubt you know that game. Combat wise it feels a bit like Heavy Gear despite not having any mechanics in common.
I wouldn’t use Cthulhutech to defend any game, unless it was “isn’t like it at all.”
>Combat wise it feels a bit like Heavy Gear despite not having any mechanics in common.
No, it doesn’t.
It's the mobility, really. Because of how Boost interacts with Overdrive you can triple your movement speed.
Honestly, I can't say it plays like 4E. In 4E you're locked in a class and that class only plays one way with a couple at-will powers and a dozen encounter and daily powers that you almost never use because "I might need it later".
In Lancer, you're always thinking about synergies and combinations. You use Nexus(lights) to build up your Gunslinger dice. You hack an opponent and them make them trigger Overwatch from half the team. You deliberately build up heat so you get an extra 1d6 on your next attack. You let the hacker take his turn first so he can cause the opponent to take Reactor Stress, get Exposed, and thus take double damage from your BFG9000. Everything in this game interacts with everything else and usually in amusing ways.