Anybody can improve Gen 2 with modern romhacking tools that allow for infinite numbers of custom moveset Pokes for every trainer. The space limitation of the GBC cart is the biggest factor in how Gen 2 turned out.
It's also an absolute tragedy to 'fix' Gen 2 by turning it into exactly what Pokemon was from Gen 3 onwards while doing nothing with the slower pace, lower powerleves and more traditional JRPG elements.
NTA but explain to me why anyone gives a shit about trainers getting legendaries in remix romhacks.
Seriously, it's a weirdly consistent b***hing point. Do you people just need to feel fricking special all the time and have the game shower you in feelgood points or what?
Where do you even get started making Gen II romhacks, I have old docs of theorycrafting a gen II overhaul and I bet I could make something at least as good as this literal who. Ideally I'd like to make a 'Tale of Two Wastelands' type mod where you can choose between starting in Kanto or Johto and go back and forth between the regions.
What's stopping me from demaking Gen 3 into Gen 2 and then using Gen 2 assets but with a much larger max filesize for the map and larger pokemon count?
I haven't even watched any of this clown's vids but I know its cringe just by the thumbnail and title.
Gen 2 is a masterpiece of a game.
You don't need to insert your own head cannon about the gym leader teams. You don't need to complain for 15 minutes about 3 hidden easter egg pokemon in the postgame. You just need to shut the frick up.
Old enough to be nostalgia blind and paranoid like genwunners were but not old enough to get shilling from gamefreak or use genwunners' "well they were the first games" excuse to dismiss all criticism, so they just spent a decade in echo chambers after HGSS and came out completely unable to comprehend the idea of johto not being considered perfect
I'm a genwun babby and I never even played Gen 2 as a child, skipped straight to Gen 3.
Gen 2 is the best Pokemon has ever been - CONCEPTUALLY. In practice it has a lot of flaws, but the vast majority of criticisms against it come from hyperzoomies whose main points of criticism are just "it isn't (the first gen I played)" and who don't even attempt to understand what GF was going for or the software limitations that gimped that vision.
Also every single western player is playing a gimped version of Gen 2 off the rip, with nearly all the extra multiplayer/social content removed which again most people who criticize it aren't aware of. ROMhacks like OP's vid just exist to turn the game into Gen 3 and onward's 'raah raah my monster does bigger moves than your monster' - which is fine if you want to play that way, but you really could just play vanilla Gens 3-5 and get the same experience.
>Gen 3 and onward's 'raah raah my monster does bigger moves than your monster'
this is literally gen 2, the game's piss-poor design incentivizes sweeping it with an overleveled starter
No, you just aren't interested in playing the lower power-level, more relaxed JRPG style game that GF was trying to make Gen 2. And a big part of that is because Gen 1 stumbled into a very 'raah raah my monster do big damage' gameplay style which kids quickly defaulted to and GF just ran with it from Gen 3 onwards.
And that's totally fine, like I said Gen 2 succeeds in concept and fails in execution and it's natural for kids and adults who have meta knowledge of the series to default to the dominant strategy. But the way to actually fix Gen 2 would be to figure out how to round out the balancing and pacing so that the JRPG party play design actually worked and wasn't annoying and easily bypassed, instead of just settling into the comfortable rut of linear damage and typing escalation of damn near every other Pokemon title. That would mean probably slaughtering a lot of the Gen 1 sacred cows, which would have alienated all the returning players which is definitely a big part of why Game Freak just didn't do it at the time.
its an objective improving over Gen 1 due to the AI growing braincell
[Embed]
And later gens aren't much better since despite improving the ai, they make it even easier to overoptimize your starter and sweep the whole game.
It sure is easy to dismiss all disagreement when you say everyone who doesn't agree with you is simply thinking wrong. I think I'll give it a try. > In practice it has a lot of flaws, but the vast majority of praise for it comes from hyperzoomies whose main points of defense are just "it is (the first gen I played)" and who don't even attempt to understand how other opinions are legitimate and based on personal experience with the game.
I'm dismissing an extremely overplayed and surface-level line of criticism that many people who weren't even around when Gen 2 released cling onto because it's a popular opinion. In the same post I directly state that Gen 2 has a bunch of other problems that need fixing. I'm going to call bullshit when there's bullshit.
This whole post is just like a huge headcanon some insecure johtoddler made lol
>it's headcanon that Gen 2 was meant to be a lower-stakes party-based JRPG >even though one of the major complaints people have with the game is that nearly all the pokemon have low-power movesets and utility moves
You just sound functionally incapable of understanding game design my guy. The idea that Johto ended up bad on accident even though GF had the most outside help to make it and a much clearer idea of how to develop the game than Gen 1 doesn't add up.
>In the same post I directly state that Gen 2 has a bunch of other problems that need fixing.
what are those problems
9 months ago
Anonymous
Primarily that the slower paced and lower powerlevel progression doesn't end up working at all, for multiple reasons, some of which are just straight out inherited from Gen 1 >Starters are nerfed but are still billed as the most important pokemon you should always be using and be attached to, so you're incentivized to sweep with them instead of building a rotating team >Gyms are still monotype so there's never any reason to experiment with your own team beyond learning one move or catching one poke that sweeps the low-power gymleaders. Whitney is the one gym leader whose gimmick actually works >Pokemon habitats/catching methods are actually communicated even more poorly than in Gen 1, with daynight cycles and random 1%ers or gimmicks like tree headbutting even further disincentivizing exploration and changing up your team unless you're just using a guide >Gen 1 type system is just bad; Gen 2 tries to alleviate this with the new types but that just created new top meta and contributes to the shitmon dilemma Gen 1 and 2 suffer from >nonlinearity is not handled as well as Gen 1 and cannot mesh with what Gen 2 was going for in teambuilding, this is the single biggest contributor to the moronic level curve >space and time constraints make it impossible to give trainers any custom Poke movesets, should have fricking cut all of Kanto and used that space to make custom E4 Pokes with real movesets or something. Or cut all the fricking unown jesus christ >battle system and display didn't meaningfully improve from Gen 1 which makes using some of those more gimmicky utility moves less practical or meaningful, especially for kids >breeding is awfully implemented
These are just off the top of my head.
9 months ago
Anonymous
these are the same problems everyone else has with jgen 2
9 months ago
Anonymous
How can you acknowledge that pretty much every part of the game is a mess and still unironically say "the concept" is more important and makes them ignorable? I think if the entire game has unintended issues due to its design, the people saying it's poorly designed might be on to something.
9 months ago
Anonymous
outside of the starters being nerfed (Johto fans have been begging for them to get buffs but Game Freak doesn't want them to overshadow KANTOOOO), the level curve (Pokmeon games as a whole are unbalanced sandboxes so little time can sweep everything with CHARIZARD), and the locations of new Pokémon not being clear, most of those problem are just par for the course in Pokemon.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>still unironically say "the concept" is more important and makes them ignorable?
I literally have not said that. I'm not prescribing that you must like Gen 2, I'm just pointing out that the vast majority of criticism against it is straight up unintelligible, bad faith, or bandwagoning. That doesn't mean it doesn't have problems or that you or anybody else must respect it for it's purely conceptual qualities.
I do think it means that romhacks made to 'fix' Gen 2 that don't have any fricking clue what the real problems are turn out extremely bland, though.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>I literally have not said that
I'm a genwun babby and I never even played Gen 2 as a child, skipped straight to Gen 3.
Gen 2 is the best Pokemon has ever been - CONCEPTUALLY. In practice it has a lot of flaws, but the vast majority of criticisms against it come from hyperzoomies whose main points of criticism are just "it isn't (the first gen I played)" and who don't even attempt to understand what GF was going for or the software limitations that gimped that vision.
Also every single western player is playing a gimped version of Gen 2 off the rip, with nearly all the extra multiplayer/social content removed which again most people who criticize it aren't aware of. ROMhacks like OP's vid just exist to turn the game into Gen 3 and onward's 'raah raah my monster does bigger moves than your monster' - which is fine if you want to play that way, but you really could just play vanilla Gens 3-5 and get the same experience.
>gen 2 is the best pokemon has ever been - conceptually
Either the concept was good, or the concept caused the game to have tons of problems. It doesn't make sense to say both
9 months ago
Anonymous
The radical change in concept between "frick it make monsters and have them shoot hyper beams" and "let's make a slower team-based game where your monsters have more traditional JRPG style moves", wherein game 2 HAD to import everything mechanical from game 1 at risk of scaring off the existing audience, made game 2 worse than it would otherwise be. The concept was great, but it also caused tons of problems because of the unique situation of Pokemon as opposed to literally any other JRPG franchise, which GF did not have the time and/or technical skill to iron out without also risking audience backlash.
If Gen 2 had been a total overhaul with no reverse compatability like Gen 3 and had fully committed to its design concepts it would be a totally different story.
You arbitrarily choosing that something cannot be good in concept and bad in execution doesn't make that actually true, by the way.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>the concept WAS good, it just didn't work because pokemon wasn't made for it!
If the concept doesn't work as a pokemon game, it is not a good concept for a pokemon game. It might have been good as another series. but GSC are bad Pokemon
9 months ago
Anonymous
What a Pokemon game WAS wasn't hard defined when Gen 2 (which was really Gen 1.5, the idea that Gens would be hard separated with a new set of 150ish Pokes in a new location wasn't even set) released.
GSC are certainly black sheep compared to the pretty clean progression from Gen 1 to Gen 3, then 4 and 5, but there are many classic JRPGs that totally overhauled themselves multiple times in their early entries and each game was independently a banger (classic FFs and DQs particularly).
I hold that if GF had slaughtered its sacred cows from Gen 1 and done a total overhaul into Gen 2's concepts we wouldn't be doing the Pokemon stagnation spiral right now. But it's also true that the material that became Gen 2 could have been totally skipped and we could have gone straight down the Gen 3 route and the franchise would have been just as explosively successful.
9 months ago
Anonymous
What a Pokemon game WAS wasn't hard defined when Gen 2 (which was really Gen 1.5, the idea that Gens would be hard separated with a new set of 150ish Pokes in a new location wasn't even set) released.
GSC are certainly black sheep compared to the pretty clean progression from Gen 1 to Gen 3, then 4 and 5, but there are many classic JRPGs that totally overhauled themselves multiple times in their early entries and each game was independently a banger (classic FFs and DQs particularly).
I hold that if GF had slaughtered its sacred cows from Gen 1 and done a total overhaul into Gen 2's concepts we wouldn't be doing the Pokemon stagnation spiral right now. But it's also true that the material that became Gen 2 could have been totally skipped and we could have gone straight down the Gen 3 route and the franchise would have been just as explosively successful.
GSC was GF experimenting with the pokemon formula. but there's a reason much of its design philosophy didn't carry over into future gens.
hint: it's because it didn't work
9 months ago
Anonymous
Of course. Nobody's pretending that it did work.
9 months ago
Anonymous
gen 2 has a lot of diehard fans who pretend that it did work and it's the rest of the series that's wrong
9 months ago
Anonymous
Most Johto fans think it worked
Some of them are even ITT
Sorry, I meant people in the current discussion. Johto does have weird fanboys but I think a lot of that comes from how big the anti-Johto bandwagon is on top of the usual Pokemon nostalgia goggles and autism.
9 months ago
Anonymous
cart before horse, the anti-johto bandwagon got big because of how overzealous johto fanboys became after pchal made his anti-johto video
9 months ago
Anonymous
Horse before cart. Pchal has an extremely niche and nonstandard way of playing the game, none of his criticisms of Johto are really applicable at least to the degree that he states them and he unarguably has a lot of influence on younger Pokemon players who will just regurgitate his and other streamers' opinions (and when I say younger I don't exclusively mean children).
When you have to hire romhack makers to make you insanely difficult functionally broken versions of the games, which you yourself cannot even begin to play without full documentation and cheats to skip as much of the actual gameplay as possible, nobody should value your opinion outside of that extreme niche.
9 months ago
Anonymous
More like Johtofanboys only became overzealous after people started worshipping a literal who posted a shitpost video where he exaggerated Johtos flaws and flat out lies about some things and those people stared parroting his shitposts and treating it like gospel
Pchal did not start the johto hate. it's been simmering for years, it's only emerging in full force now as a response to how rabid and delusional johto fanboys have become.
(the idea that people only hate johto because of pchal is a large part of said delusions)
9 months ago
Anonymous
>it's only emerging in full force now as a response to how rabid and delusional johto fanboys have become
Anon, the vast vast vast majority of the Pokemon community are not as eternally online as you. It's just the typical influencer feedback loop where someone with an audience says something that sounds right to the normies and that gets signal boosted by others in the community who want to jump in on the hot topic so it becomes the default opinion.
Johto has always caught flak as being the dark sheep of the franchise but for years it was universally accepted that HGSS were the peak of Pokemon despite that and even the term 'Johtoddler' was coined around the same time as 'Unovabort' as a response to Hoenbabbies becoming buttfrustrated.
9 months ago
Anonymous
anon, you're doing the thing that's making people hate you. you're discarding their points by attributing them to a source already deemed untrustworthy. you're poisoning the well.
Pchal did not start the johto hate. johto fans responding to criticism by doubling down and trying to ignore or discredit it is pissing everyone else off.
the same thing happened to genwunners around gen 5's release. they tried to swing their dick around as the unquestioned kings of the franchise, and everyone else had to drill it into their heads that no, gen 1 isn't perfect.
and HGSS are still considered among the better pokemon games.
9 months ago
Anonymous
And you're pretending that discussion about this multi-BILLION dollar industry is entirely, or even mainly, composed of people that have actually been consuming the media since the beginning or close to it. And it just isn't. The majority of people spouting the gen 2 hate have never played it, or did not play it before having the well poisoned themselves by influencers like PChal or people further down the content regurgitation pipeline who don't give a very balanced view of the game. And you can tell this is the case, because the bulk of the criticism against Gen 2 is repetitive talking points divorced of any real context and made with no basic analysis of the decisionmaking of the devs, which the experience of actually PLAYING the game IN DEPTH before forming opinions would dramatically change.
If you want to pretend influencers don't have outsized influence on discussion of popular media, I mean that's your call, but you're not going to get much meaningful conversation from the drones that all have the exact same opinion. >'Gen 2 level curve, pokemon and move distribution are... le BAD' >'Yes, I also agree' >repeat ad infinitum as the series submits to entropy and swirls into the black hole of diminishing quality and effort from which no light can escape
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Pchal has an extremely niche and nonstandard way of playing the game
He talked about the game almost solely in the context of a normal playthrough >none of his criticisms of Johto are really applicable at least to the degree that he states them
He said the pacing sucks, the new Pokemon suck, the story sucks and is bloated with dozens of Rocket fights, Kanto sucks because it's empty and the games are rushed. Are any of those points exaggerated or incorrect? Not really. You can maybe say they don't make Johto as bad as he says it does, but most Johtotards can't even come that close. >When you have to hire romhack makers...
Completely unrelated to whatever's at hand. When you write unhinged schizo rants about how Gamefreak wants to erase Johto, I guess your opinions should also be disregarded with absolute contempt, correct?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>He talked about the game almost solely in the context of a normal playthrough
His idea of what's fun is clearly not aligned with the target audience's, which leads to him massively overstating the problems with the game. The point about him commissioning his own insanely difficult romhacks is to illustrate that nothing in the core gameplay of the mainline Pokemon games is significantly appealing to him anymore and he was already starting down that path when he made the Johto video. His video is essentially the same as an RTS player b***hing about Civilization; he wants to be playing an entirely different genre and probably WOULD if he hadn't damned himself to Pokemon branding to pay his bills. >When you write unhinged schizo rants about how Gamefreak wants to erase Johto
You either can't or don't care to follow reply chains. Good for you.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>His idea of what's fun is clearly not aligned
What part of bad pacing, bad new Pokemon, empty large areas, or repetitive and boring evil team sections sounds remotely fun? For anyone? He even brings up in the video, which I just speedwatched, where other games directly succeed where Johto fails in ways that make them objectively superior. >that nothing in the core gameplay of the mainline Pokemon games is significantly appealing to him
But he also has played through the normal games and also has takes in other media where he praises some of them? What?
Even if that were true, why would that even matter? All of those things he's saying would, again, apply universally, regardless of his personal taste. I have no love for 3D platformers, but I can tell Bubsy 3D is a broken, horrifying mess of a game especially when compared to its contemporaries. >You either can't or don't care to follow reply chains
No, I'm talking about the various schizo rants spammed by you people about how le big bad conspiracy wants to shut you down.
If you don't personally own it, fine. But don't throw stones in that glass house.
9 months ago
Anonymous
> No, I'm talking about the various schizo rants spammed by you people about how le big bad conspiracy wants to shut you down.
You mean that pasta that was someone on Discord admitted to making up to make Johtofans look crazy and only a handful of anons here believed.
Hilariously if Johto is as terrible as you and apparently a large portion of the fanbase who was somehow forced into silence for decades believes, then that actually supports that schizo’s theory of Game Freak hating Johto and it’s fans. Let’s disregard the possibility Gen 2 was designed as a sequel, that gen2 existed before 25 years of powercrept, or even that many of the problems in Gen 2 are also be in other generations. Assuming thr Gen2 is truely the worst, and that all the complaints about Gen2 are true, then the only explanation for there to be such a massive dip in quality for Gen 2 in particular would be intentional sabotage. >Why are ALLLL the new Pokémon locked in the post game? game freak didn’t want new Pokémon to become popular >Why is is everything in Gen2 a “shitmon”? So Genwunners can laugh at >Why are their so many useless babies? Game freak thinks Johtoddlers are dumb babies >why do NONe of the gym leaders use gen2 Pokémon? Because Heracross is weaker than immobile cocoons >Why are all the level up moves and TM’s “garbage”? because Game Freak doesn’t have want Gen2 Pokémon to have nice thing >Why is team Rocket the Villian again? Game Freak doesn’t think johto is good enough to have anything other than KANTOO’s sloppy second >Why is Kanto in the game instead of Johto being a super region? Because Game Freak hates the Kansai region and doesn’t think that it can stand on its own >Why is EVERYONE low level? Becsue Kansai are allegedly all dumb hicks who don’t know how to battle >Why are the johto starters shitmons? To make KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO’s starters look better.
>RSE told Johtogays to frick themselves
holy based
Holy Cringe
9 months ago
Anonymous
you forgot a > buddy, i think that was a mistake 🙂
Gen2's music, themes and world is peak kino.
But it's gameplay? Level scaling? The handling of Johto mons? The gyms and elite four?
Trash
this. i also like the battle tower concept in crystal, but it wasn't executed very well either
9 months ago
Anonymous
> Are any of those points exaggerated or incorrect? Not really.
Yes they are, they're either subjective or apply to most Pokemon games, if the argument is Johto is so terrible that it's "the worst" then those are shit arguements >the pacing sucks
meaning "some parts of the game are easier than others". so every game ever. >new Pokemon all SUCK
Most Pokemon "sucked" back then, not just Gen2's. Only a handful of choices are the most optional, there are very few Gen 2 Pokemon that are truly terrible and most gens have those, its just that only Gen 2's shitmons are trotted out like a freakshow and weaponized as strawmen to devalue the entire of the Gen 2 roster >story sucks
I never had a problem with the story >your start your journey to help Elm/Oak complete the pokedex >meanwhile you also decide to compete in the league >on your journey you encounter Team Rocket, who's committing random mayhem because their leader fricked off after getting BTFO by Red >you stop their every scheme >eventually they try to call Giovonni because they realize they're lost without him, but you stop them and they give up
its a bit low stakes and I understand its not to everyone's taste it, but it doesn't suck just because there's no world ending epic climax and the only gen to do that right was Gen 3.
DP, XY, and SwSh all have far worse story as not only do they make no sense but they waste your time by forcing you to listen to inane rambles by a lunatic pretending to be deep >Kanto sucks because its empty
Frick off, the game is about Johto why should Kanto be an obligation rather than a bonus, by that logic RSE told Johtogays to frick themselves. Frick, SwSh explicitly promised 18 gyms then hid behind "lore" to gyp us out of 10 of them. >and the games are rushed
no, his piece of shit video was rushed
you just did it again. you keep attributing criticism to some eceleb and their legions of fans who don't know any better because you can't handle the idea that your favorite gen is flawed.
>you keep attributing criticism to some eceleb and their legions of fans who don't know any better
because they don't.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>RSE told Johtogays to frick themselves
holy based
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Johto is so terrible that it's "the worst"
Johto being the worst mainline actually tells that the series has a quite high standard no?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>because they don't.
they do, you're just coping because you can't handle the idea that your favorite gen is flawed
9 months ago
Anonymous
More like Johtofanboys only became overzealous after people started worshipping a literal who posted a shitpost video where he exaggerated Johtos flaws and flat out lies about some things and those people stared parroting his shitposts and treating it like gospel
9 months ago
Anonymous
Most Johto fans think it worked
Some of them are even ITT
9 months ago
Anonymous
More like the concept was bogged down due to begin forced to be pokemon. Had they actually when full into the concept the series as a whole would be better
What a Pokemon game WAS wasn't hard defined when Gen 2 (which was really Gen 1.5, the idea that Gens would be hard separated with a new set of 150ish Pokes in a new location wasn't even set) released.
GSC are certainly black sheep compared to the pretty clean progression from Gen 1 to Gen 3, then 4 and 5, but there are many classic JRPGs that totally overhauled themselves multiple times in their early entries and each game was independently a banger (classic FFs and DQs particularly).
I hold that if GF had slaughtered its sacred cows from Gen 1 and done a total overhaul into Gen 2's concepts we wouldn't be doing the Pokemon stagnation spiral right now. But it's also true that the material that became Gen 2 could have been totally skipped and we could have gone straight down the Gen 3 route and the franchise would have been just as explosively successful.
>ut it's also true that the material that became Gen 2 could have been totally skipped and we could have gone straight down the Gen 3 route and the franchise would have been just as explosively successful.
i guess, but you could say the same thing about any gen that isn't GENWUN and that's only because Gen 1 had the privelege of setting the rules.
9 months ago
Anonymous
nta but it pretty much all the problem seem to be from Game Freak wanting to change things up but being insistent on it still bein compatible with Gen 1, and being too afraid of Gen 2 overshadow Gen 1. And the few new problems in Gen 2 continue on to later in these series.
>Starters are nerfed
Game Freak clearly didn't respect the Johto starters. They isn't want them to overshadow their precious GenWun. >nonlinearity is not handled as well as Gen 1 and cannot mesh with what Gen 2 was going for in teambuilding, this is the single biggest contributor to the moronic level curve
It wasn't really handled well in Gen 1 either, they just had the level spike in Gym leaders earlier than Gen 2 does. The only reason it isn't as notable is because the Gen 1 moveset and AI are even more pathetic than Gen 2 so levels legit doesn't matter. >>Gyms are still monotype
This is an bigger problem than the Gym's "West Kanto symdrome", Jasmine getting a Lantern or even Cursola would be far more interesting things than her getting a Skamory. > cut all the fricking unown jesus christ
. Give Unown a powered up swarming form, and give the single stage sitters evolutions. Cut out most of the idiotic baby Pokemon, Only Togepi makes sense
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Cut out most of the idiotic baby Pokemon, Only Togepi makes sense
togepi, tyrogue, elekid, magby, and smoochum can stay. they have purpose (or at least they would if you could find them in the wild) the rest can go
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Gen 2's problems come from my deep set terminally online conspiracy that GF wanted their own follow-up product not to sell as well as the product it is a direct continuation of
See this is what I mean when I said earlier that the majority of people aren't capable of meaningfully criticizing Gen 2 because they just have no idea of the development atmosphere surrounding Gen 2, where GF did and didn't frick up, and what they were ultimately trying to accomplish. Comments like that and "cut out the baby pokemon because they don't make sense" even though the game is about building out the setting and lowering the power curve come across as you screaming "give me Gen 3". Hell, the entire reason the Unown exist as fricking filler is because there were no other new Pokemon to add; Gen 2 was directly intended as Kanto v1.5
Is he actually talking about the issues with the elite 4 and what measurements game freak could have taken to make the experience more enjoyable/challenging or is just the moron that baited people with "how to fix Johto pokemon" and just goes on and on about his stupid rom hack instead of actually talking about the issues of the mons
He's just saying he can romhack in custom pokes with whatever movesets he wants and come up with 'engaging' headcanon justifications for any picks he likes, and then pulling a classic "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!?" over Gamefreak not being able to do the same 25 years ago.
And yes, he is (painfully) shilling his own romhack
I can do a stupid rom hack too if I wanted, anybody can, what a moron.
I'm down for an 8 hour video all about gen 2 development and game freak lack of foresight and small mistakes and the likes, but I have no patience for some random moron with 20 years of hindsight doing a stupid rom hack. "Look at me I'm better than the company that made the game"
>Better AI
Gen 2 actually has hugely improved AI over Gen 1, its just that most trainers don't use the more oddball AI patterns or can't get any use out of them because their teams are so weak and battles are over so quickly.
What would (You) change to make Pokemon Crystal great, Anon?
>start the player out much weaker, probably with baby-level Pokemon since they fell into the story by accident >bring breeding to the forefront by eliminating IVs and making eggs hatch faster. Make eggs get experience from fights as though they had EXP share and at a certain EXP value it hatches, no step count. Communicate egg moves and other breeding perks IN THE GAME >make the game more linear and cut Kanto to expand Johto (or in a perfect world have a full Kanto with its own story beats and progression) >emphasize using trainer encounters to update the pokedex to find rare Pokemon instead of random shit like 1% encounters and headbutt rng >themed but not monotype gymleaders that evolve from decent gimmicks to knockdown dragout 6v6s IN JOHTO >make dealing with the legendaries story events so you have more reason to revisit prior areas, to make up for scrapping the nonlinearity. For example, you have to go deal with Lugia after beating Clair and that's how you get a pokemon with Waterfall to enter Kanto, etc. >put the E4 after Kanto if possible to even out the level curve towards Red >add more timecalendar events for even more exploration value
proper locations for evo stones
put smoochum, elekid, and magby in the wild
cut pichu, cleffa, and igglybuff
replace them with ambipom, yanmega, and either honchkrow or mismagius. probably mismagius.
add more janine give morty a misdreavus
and adjust levels so the game flows more smoothly. pryce is fine as is, but chuck should be buffed. and jasmine needs a better team.
>Gym leader rematches >Better Pokemon distribution
Adjust the encounter and used mechanics like headbutt trees and swarms >better Team Composition
Expanded the move sets of mobs like Xatu >Adjusted the Level Curve a bit
I think that’s it
Realistically the only thing I'd change is just have the trainers ready to rematch you whenever like in ORAS instead of waiting for them to call you and that's it
the Stadium 2 teams do the thing where the gyms are themed but not truly monotype and that's verboten to people still sucking off GameFreak in AD 2023 Some of those teams genuinely are just nonsense though
[...]
Pchal did not start the johto hate. it's been simmering for years, it's only emerging in full force now as a response to how rabid and delusional johto fanboys have become.
(the idea that people only hate johto because of pchal is a large part of said delusions)
No one denies that Johto had haters. every game had some haters even the Untouchable Gen 1 who had that privilege of defining what a Pokemon game even is had haters. Its just that back then, the people who hated gen 2 back then were people who played the game but didn't like them. For the most part GSC were loved release and a good portion of the fans considered them an upgrade over RBY. They were aware of Gen2's flaws, but consider the games merit's to be strong enough. Ironically HGSS as what made people start looking at more of GSC's flaws simply because HGSS just did everything so much better.
Only around Pchals video did the idea of Gen 2 being "the worst" start becoming wide spread, and most Johto haters weren't just people with understandly different tastes, but nu-fans who know nothing about Johto but only shit on it to to parrot memes. and because Johto is the region that's gone the longest without a new game its easy for nu-fans to be gaslit about it.
anon, you're doing the thing that's making people hate you. you're discarding their points by attributing them to a source already deemed untrustworthy. you're poisoning the well.
Pchal did not start the johto hate. johto fans responding to criticism by doubling down and trying to ignore or discredit it is pissing everyone else off.
the same thing happened to genwunners around gen 5's release. they tried to swing their dick around as the unquestioned kings of the franchise, and everyone else had to drill it into their heads that no, gen 1 isn't perfect.
and HGSS are still considered among the better pokemon games.
>HGSS are still considered among the better pokemon games.
nope, even HGSS is getting hate now. Joe threw them under the bus to defend how shit BDSP where and like clockwork nu-fans are parroting his stupidity saying. Watch, in a few years some troll will say Whitney's ace was Clefable in HGSS and nu-fans will fall for it
you just did it again. you keep attributing criticism to some eceleb and their legions of fans who don't know any better because you can't handle the idea that your favorite gen is flawed.
Anon that's not (Me). Common Gankerner inability to conceive of more than one person disagreeing with them. >your favorite gen
My favorite gen is gen 3 because I'm a third version chad
really these poketubes with their "fixing shit" already have me sick, it looks like they never played pokemon on a gameboy without internet access or guides
The level curve is a nonexistent issue that is only parroted by idiots who didn’t play the games or can’t even be assed to do some research. The entire idea that level curve is an issue gets thrown out the window when you realize that the e4 was designed for you to be around 10 levels below its highest leveled trainer when you first get to it. These same morons also never played gen 1 since its “level curve” is way worse than gen 2 if what these idiots are referring to is wild pokemon. If its trainers then their idiocy is even worse cause the trainers in gen 1 are massively underleveled when compared to gen 2. Despite all this you will still end up several levels below the champion in both gens and its even more jarring in gen 1 while in gen 2 it just naturally progresses into kanto.
Frick off. Gen 2 is the best.
if you don't think gen 2 has major problems you're moronic every gen has issues
>every gen has issues
correct
>gen 2 has major problems
incorrect
>Gen Z, Millennials and Boomers are now genders
It doesn't. Gen 2 is objectively the closest Pokémon has ever come to perfection.
Give us some arguments besides old = good, new = bad, mate.
Old = good
New = bad
Simple as.
>praising old while posting nugen green chikorita
disgusting
So Terra's hair in FF6 is green or yellow?
as single game, Gen2 was the best Gen, but as overall, Gen3 is the best.
Simple as.
Gen2's music, themes and world is peak kino.
But it's gameplay? Level scaling? The handling of Johto mons? The gyms and elite four?
Trash
johto is a good region stuck in a bad game
Yeah, it alright.
Anybody can improve Gen 2 with modern romhacking tools that allow for infinite numbers of custom moveset Pokes for every trainer. The space limitation of the GBC cart is the biggest factor in how Gen 2 turned out.
It's also an absolute tragedy to 'fix' Gen 2 by turning it into exactly what Pokemon was from Gen 3 onwards while doing nothing with the slower pace, lower powerleves and more traditional JRPG elements.
10/10 comment. Glad to see there's still intelligent people on /vp/.
>gives lance a legendary
frick off
he has 3 pseudos
Not an official distinction, who gives a shit.
NTA but explain to me why anyone gives a shit about trainers getting legendaries in remix romhacks.
Seriously, it's a weirdly consistent b***hing point. Do you people just need to feel fricking special all the time and have the game shower you in feelgood points or what?
Where do you even get started making Gen II romhacks, I have old docs of theorycrafting a gen II overhaul and I bet I could make something at least as good as this literal who. Ideally I'd like to make a 'Tale of Two Wastelands' type mod where you can choose between starting in Kanto or Johto and go back and forth between the regions.
Go find the Crystal decomp on Github
The bottlenecks to Gen 2 romhacks are the hard 255 Pokemons and moves cap. Most QoA have been done
What's stopping me from demaking Gen 3 into Gen 2 and then using Gen 2 assets but with a much larger max filesize for the map and larger pokemon count?
Yourself
You're right, I'm literally drafting the design doc tonight and am downloading the Emerald decomp as we speak. Cheers.
I haven't even watched any of this clown's vids but I know its cringe just by the thumbnail and title.
Gen 2 is a masterpiece of a game.
You don't need to insert your own head cannon about the gym leader teams. You don't need to complain for 15 minutes about 3 hidden easter egg pokemon in the postgame. You just need to shut the frick up.
Damm you guys are worse than any other fan boy of a generation
You're the one shilling your shitty romhack on a turbovirgin friend simulator 24 hours a day
You think if I were him I'll promote my video on Ganker lmfao take your meds
what is it about johtoddlers that makes them so insufferably insane?
Old enough to be nostalgia blind and paranoid like genwunners were but not old enough to get shilling from gamefreak or use genwunners' "well they were the first games" excuse to dismiss all criticism, so they just spent a decade in echo chambers after HGSS and came out completely unable to comprehend the idea of johto not being considered perfect
I'm a genwun babby and I never even played Gen 2 as a child, skipped straight to Gen 3.
Gen 2 is the best Pokemon has ever been - CONCEPTUALLY. In practice it has a lot of flaws, but the vast majority of criticisms against it come from hyperzoomies whose main points of criticism are just "it isn't (the first gen I played)" and who don't even attempt to understand what GF was going for or the software limitations that gimped that vision.
Also every single western player is playing a gimped version of Gen 2 off the rip, with nearly all the extra multiplayer/social content removed which again most people who criticize it aren't aware of. ROMhacks like OP's vid just exist to turn the game into Gen 3 and onward's 'raah raah my monster does bigger moves than your monster' - which is fine if you want to play that way, but you really could just play vanilla Gens 3-5 and get the same experience.
>Gen 3 and onward's 'raah raah my monster does bigger moves than your monster'
this is literally gen 2, the game's piss-poor design incentivizes sweeping it with an overleveled starter
Sssshhhh...
Let them stay in their delusions Anon
Let them think that sweeping a trainer with two level 15 shit mons per day is peak soulful gameplay
No, you just aren't interested in playing the lower power-level, more relaxed JRPG style game that GF was trying to make Gen 2. And a big part of that is because Gen 1 stumbled into a very 'raah raah my monster do big damage' gameplay style which kids quickly defaulted to and GF just ran with it from Gen 3 onwards.
And that's totally fine, like I said Gen 2 succeeds in concept and fails in execution and it's natural for kids and adults who have meta knowledge of the series to default to the dominant strategy. But the way to actually fix Gen 2 would be to figure out how to round out the balancing and pacing so that the JRPG party play design actually worked and wasn't annoying and easily bypassed, instead of just settling into the comfortable rut of linear damage and typing escalation of damn near every other Pokemon title. That would mean probably slaughtering a lot of the Gen 1 sacred cows, which would have alienated all the returning players which is definitely a big part of why Game Freak just didn't do it at the time.
This whole post is just like a huge headcanon some insecure johtoddler made lol
>the game's piss-poor design incentivizes sweeping it with an overleveled starter
you mean literally every game in the fricking series?
johto is where it's the worst
its an objective improving over Gen 1 due to the AI growing braincell
[Embed]
And later gens aren't much better since despite improving the ai, they make it even easier to overoptimize your starter and sweep the whole game.
It sure is easy to dismiss all disagreement when you say everyone who doesn't agree with you is simply thinking wrong. I think I'll give it a try.
> In practice it has a lot of flaws, but the vast majority of praise for it comes from hyperzoomies whose main points of defense are just "it is (the first gen I played)" and who don't even attempt to understand how other opinions are legitimate and based on personal experience with the game.
I'm dismissing an extremely overplayed and surface-level line of criticism that many people who weren't even around when Gen 2 released cling onto because it's a popular opinion. In the same post I directly state that Gen 2 has a bunch of other problems that need fixing. I'm going to call bullshit when there's bullshit.
>it's headcanon that Gen 2 was meant to be a lower-stakes party-based JRPG
>even though one of the major complaints people have with the game is that nearly all the pokemon have low-power movesets and utility moves
You just sound functionally incapable of understanding game design my guy. The idea that Johto ended up bad on accident even though GF had the most outside help to make it and a much clearer idea of how to develop the game than Gen 1 doesn't add up.
>In the same post I directly state that Gen 2 has a bunch of other problems that need fixing.
what are those problems
Primarily that the slower paced and lower powerlevel progression doesn't end up working at all, for multiple reasons, some of which are just straight out inherited from Gen 1
>Starters are nerfed but are still billed as the most important pokemon you should always be using and be attached to, so you're incentivized to sweep with them instead of building a rotating team
>Gyms are still monotype so there's never any reason to experiment with your own team beyond learning one move or catching one poke that sweeps the low-power gymleaders. Whitney is the one gym leader whose gimmick actually works
>Pokemon habitats/catching methods are actually communicated even more poorly than in Gen 1, with daynight cycles and random 1%ers or gimmicks like tree headbutting even further disincentivizing exploration and changing up your team unless you're just using a guide
>Gen 1 type system is just bad; Gen 2 tries to alleviate this with the new types but that just created new top meta and contributes to the shitmon dilemma Gen 1 and 2 suffer from
>nonlinearity is not handled as well as Gen 1 and cannot mesh with what Gen 2 was going for in teambuilding, this is the single biggest contributor to the moronic level curve
>space and time constraints make it impossible to give trainers any custom Poke movesets, should have fricking cut all of Kanto and used that space to make custom E4 Pokes with real movesets or something. Or cut all the fricking unown jesus christ
>battle system and display didn't meaningfully improve from Gen 1 which makes using some of those more gimmicky utility moves less practical or meaningful, especially for kids
>breeding is awfully implemented
These are just off the top of my head.
these are the same problems everyone else has with jgen 2
How can you acknowledge that pretty much every part of the game is a mess and still unironically say "the concept" is more important and makes them ignorable? I think if the entire game has unintended issues due to its design, the people saying it's poorly designed might be on to something.
outside of the starters being nerfed (Johto fans have been begging for them to get buffs but Game Freak doesn't want them to overshadow KANTOOOO), the level curve (Pokmeon games as a whole are unbalanced sandboxes so little time can sweep everything with CHARIZARD), and the locations of new Pokémon not being clear, most of those problem are just par for the course in Pokemon.
>still unironically say "the concept" is more important and makes them ignorable?
I literally have not said that. I'm not prescribing that you must like Gen 2, I'm just pointing out that the vast majority of criticism against it is straight up unintelligible, bad faith, or bandwagoning. That doesn't mean it doesn't have problems or that you or anybody else must respect it for it's purely conceptual qualities.
I do think it means that romhacks made to 'fix' Gen 2 that don't have any fricking clue what the real problems are turn out extremely bland, though.
>I literally have not said that
>gen 2 is the best pokemon has ever been - conceptually
Either the concept was good, or the concept caused the game to have tons of problems. It doesn't make sense to say both
The radical change in concept between "frick it make monsters and have them shoot hyper beams" and "let's make a slower team-based game where your monsters have more traditional JRPG style moves", wherein game 2 HAD to import everything mechanical from game 1 at risk of scaring off the existing audience, made game 2 worse than it would otherwise be. The concept was great, but it also caused tons of problems because of the unique situation of Pokemon as opposed to literally any other JRPG franchise, which GF did not have the time and/or technical skill to iron out without also risking audience backlash.
If Gen 2 had been a total overhaul with no reverse compatability like Gen 3 and had fully committed to its design concepts it would be a totally different story.
You arbitrarily choosing that something cannot be good in concept and bad in execution doesn't make that actually true, by the way.
>the concept WAS good, it just didn't work because pokemon wasn't made for it!
If the concept doesn't work as a pokemon game, it is not a good concept for a pokemon game. It might have been good as another series. but GSC are bad Pokemon
What a Pokemon game WAS wasn't hard defined when Gen 2 (which was really Gen 1.5, the idea that Gens would be hard separated with a new set of 150ish Pokes in a new location wasn't even set) released.
GSC are certainly black sheep compared to the pretty clean progression from Gen 1 to Gen 3, then 4 and 5, but there are many classic JRPGs that totally overhauled themselves multiple times in their early entries and each game was independently a banger (classic FFs and DQs particularly).
I hold that if GF had slaughtered its sacred cows from Gen 1 and done a total overhaul into Gen 2's concepts we wouldn't be doing the Pokemon stagnation spiral right now. But it's also true that the material that became Gen 2 could have been totally skipped and we could have gone straight down the Gen 3 route and the franchise would have been just as explosively successful.
GSC was GF experimenting with the pokemon formula. but there's a reason much of its design philosophy didn't carry over into future gens.
hint: it's because it didn't work
Of course. Nobody's pretending that it did work.
gen 2 has a lot of diehard fans who pretend that it did work and it's the rest of the series that's wrong
Sorry, I meant people in the current discussion. Johto does have weird fanboys but I think a lot of that comes from how big the anti-Johto bandwagon is on top of the usual Pokemon nostalgia goggles and autism.
cart before horse, the anti-johto bandwagon got big because of how overzealous johto fanboys became after pchal made his anti-johto video
Horse before cart. Pchal has an extremely niche and nonstandard way of playing the game, none of his criticisms of Johto are really applicable at least to the degree that he states them and he unarguably has a lot of influence on younger Pokemon players who will just regurgitate his and other streamers' opinions (and when I say younger I don't exclusively mean children).
When you have to hire romhack makers to make you insanely difficult functionally broken versions of the games, which you yourself cannot even begin to play without full documentation and cheats to skip as much of the actual gameplay as possible, nobody should value your opinion outside of that extreme niche.
Pchal did not start the johto hate. it's been simmering for years, it's only emerging in full force now as a response to how rabid and delusional johto fanboys have become.
(the idea that people only hate johto because of pchal is a large part of said delusions)
>it's only emerging in full force now as a response to how rabid and delusional johto fanboys have become
Anon, the vast vast vast majority of the Pokemon community are not as eternally online as you. It's just the typical influencer feedback loop where someone with an audience says something that sounds right to the normies and that gets signal boosted by others in the community who want to jump in on the hot topic so it becomes the default opinion.
Johto has always caught flak as being the dark sheep of the franchise but for years it was universally accepted that HGSS were the peak of Pokemon despite that and even the term 'Johtoddler' was coined around the same time as 'Unovabort' as a response to Hoenbabbies becoming buttfrustrated.
anon, you're doing the thing that's making people hate you. you're discarding their points by attributing them to a source already deemed untrustworthy. you're poisoning the well.
Pchal did not start the johto hate. johto fans responding to criticism by doubling down and trying to ignore or discredit it is pissing everyone else off.
the same thing happened to genwunners around gen 5's release. they tried to swing their dick around as the unquestioned kings of the franchise, and everyone else had to drill it into their heads that no, gen 1 isn't perfect.
and HGSS are still considered among the better pokemon games.
And you're pretending that discussion about this multi-BILLION dollar industry is entirely, or even mainly, composed of people that have actually been consuming the media since the beginning or close to it. And it just isn't. The majority of people spouting the gen 2 hate have never played it, or did not play it before having the well poisoned themselves by influencers like PChal or people further down the content regurgitation pipeline who don't give a very balanced view of the game. And you can tell this is the case, because the bulk of the criticism against Gen 2 is repetitive talking points divorced of any real context and made with no basic analysis of the decisionmaking of the devs, which the experience of actually PLAYING the game IN DEPTH before forming opinions would dramatically change.
If you want to pretend influencers don't have outsized influence on discussion of popular media, I mean that's your call, but you're not going to get much meaningful conversation from the drones that all have the exact same opinion.
>'Gen 2 level curve, pokemon and move distribution are... le BAD'
>'Yes, I also agree'
>repeat ad infinitum as the series submits to entropy and swirls into the black hole of diminishing quality and effort from which no light can escape
>Pchal has an extremely niche and nonstandard way of playing the game
He talked about the game almost solely in the context of a normal playthrough
>none of his criticisms of Johto are really applicable at least to the degree that he states them
He said the pacing sucks, the new Pokemon suck, the story sucks and is bloated with dozens of Rocket fights, Kanto sucks because it's empty and the games are rushed. Are any of those points exaggerated or incorrect? Not really. You can maybe say they don't make Johto as bad as he says it does, but most Johtotards can't even come that close.
>When you have to hire romhack makers...
Completely unrelated to whatever's at hand. When you write unhinged schizo rants about how Gamefreak wants to erase Johto, I guess your opinions should also be disregarded with absolute contempt, correct?
>He talked about the game almost solely in the context of a normal playthrough
His idea of what's fun is clearly not aligned with the target audience's, which leads to him massively overstating the problems with the game. The point about him commissioning his own insanely difficult romhacks is to illustrate that nothing in the core gameplay of the mainline Pokemon games is significantly appealing to him anymore and he was already starting down that path when he made the Johto video. His video is essentially the same as an RTS player b***hing about Civilization; he wants to be playing an entirely different genre and probably WOULD if he hadn't damned himself to Pokemon branding to pay his bills.
>When you write unhinged schizo rants about how Gamefreak wants to erase Johto
You either can't or don't care to follow reply chains. Good for you.
>His idea of what's fun is clearly not aligned
What part of bad pacing, bad new Pokemon, empty large areas, or repetitive and boring evil team sections sounds remotely fun? For anyone? He even brings up in the video, which I just speedwatched, where other games directly succeed where Johto fails in ways that make them objectively superior.
>that nothing in the core gameplay of the mainline Pokemon games is significantly appealing to him
But he also has played through the normal games and also has takes in other media where he praises some of them? What?
Even if that were true, why would that even matter? All of those things he's saying would, again, apply universally, regardless of his personal taste. I have no love for 3D platformers, but I can tell Bubsy 3D is a broken, horrifying mess of a game especially when compared to its contemporaries.
>You either can't or don't care to follow reply chains
No, I'm talking about the various schizo rants spammed by you people about how le big bad conspiracy wants to shut you down.
If you don't personally own it, fine. But don't throw stones in that glass house.
> No, I'm talking about the various schizo rants spammed by you people about how le big bad conspiracy wants to shut you down.
You mean that pasta that was someone on Discord admitted to making up to make Johtofans look crazy and only a handful of anons here believed.
Hilariously if Johto is as terrible as you and apparently a large portion of the fanbase who was somehow forced into silence for decades believes, then that actually supports that schizo’s theory of Game Freak hating Johto and it’s fans. Let’s disregard the possibility Gen 2 was designed as a sequel, that gen2 existed before 25 years of powercrept, or even that many of the problems in Gen 2 are also be in other generations. Assuming thr Gen2 is truely the worst, and that all the complaints about Gen2 are true, then the only explanation for there to be such a massive dip in quality for Gen 2 in particular would be intentional sabotage.
>Why are ALLLL the new Pokémon locked in the post game? game freak didn’t want new Pokémon to become popular
>Why is is everything in Gen2 a “shitmon”? So Genwunners can laugh at
>Why are their so many useless babies? Game freak thinks Johtoddlers are dumb babies
>why do NONe of the gym leaders use gen2 Pokémon? Because Heracross is weaker than immobile cocoons
>Why are all the level up moves and TM’s “garbage”? because Game Freak doesn’t have want Gen2 Pokémon to have nice thing
>Why is team Rocket the Villian again? Game Freak doesn’t think johto is good enough to have anything other than KANTOO’s sloppy second
>Why is Kanto in the game instead of Johto being a super region? Because Game Freak hates the Kansai region and doesn’t think that it can stand on its own
>Why is EVERYONE low level? Becsue Kansai are allegedly all dumb hicks who don’t know how to battle
>Why are the johto starters shitmons? To make KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO’s starters look better.
Holy Cringe
you forgot a > buddy, i think that was a mistake 🙂
this. i also like the battle tower concept in crystal, but it wasn't executed very well either
> Are any of those points exaggerated or incorrect? Not really.
Yes they are, they're either subjective or apply to most Pokemon games, if the argument is Johto is so terrible that it's "the worst" then those are shit arguements
>the pacing sucks
meaning "some parts of the game are easier than others". so every game ever.
>new Pokemon all SUCK
Most Pokemon "sucked" back then, not just Gen2's. Only a handful of choices are the most optional, there are very few Gen 2 Pokemon that are truly terrible and most gens have those, its just that only Gen 2's shitmons are trotted out like a freakshow and weaponized as strawmen to devalue the entire of the Gen 2 roster
>story sucks
I never had a problem with the story
>your start your journey to help Elm/Oak complete the pokedex
>meanwhile you also decide to compete in the league
>on your journey you encounter Team Rocket, who's committing random mayhem because their leader fricked off after getting BTFO by Red
>you stop their every scheme
>eventually they try to call Giovonni because they realize they're lost without him, but you stop them and they give up
its a bit low stakes and I understand its not to everyone's taste it, but it doesn't suck just because there's no world ending epic climax and the only gen to do that right was Gen 3.
DP, XY, and SwSh all have far worse story as not only do they make no sense but they waste your time by forcing you to listen to inane rambles by a lunatic pretending to be deep
>Kanto sucks because its empty
Frick off, the game is about Johto why should Kanto be an obligation rather than a bonus, by that logic RSE told Johtogays to frick themselves. Frick, SwSh explicitly promised 18 gyms then hid behind "lore" to gyp us out of 10 of them.
>and the games are rushed
no, his piece of shit video was rushed
>you keep attributing criticism to some eceleb and their legions of fans who don't know any better
because they don't.
>RSE told Johtogays to frick themselves
holy based
>Johto is so terrible that it's "the worst"
Johto being the worst mainline actually tells that the series has a quite high standard no?
>because they don't.
they do, you're just coping because you can't handle the idea that your favorite gen is flawed
More like Johtofanboys only became overzealous after people started worshipping a literal who posted a shitpost video where he exaggerated Johtos flaws and flat out lies about some things and those people stared parroting his shitposts and treating it like gospel
Most Johto fans think it worked
Some of them are even ITT
More like the concept was bogged down due to begin forced to be pokemon. Had they actually when full into the concept the series as a whole would be better
>ut it's also true that the material that became Gen 2 could have been totally skipped and we could have gone straight down the Gen 3 route and the franchise would have been just as explosively successful.
i guess, but you could say the same thing about any gen that isn't GENWUN and that's only because Gen 1 had the privelege of setting the rules.
nta but it pretty much all the problem seem to be from Game Freak wanting to change things up but being insistent on it still bein compatible with Gen 1, and being too afraid of Gen 2 overshadow Gen 1. And the few new problems in Gen 2 continue on to later in these series.
>Starters are nerfed
Game Freak clearly didn't respect the Johto starters. They isn't want them to overshadow their precious GenWun.
>nonlinearity is not handled as well as Gen 1 and cannot mesh with what Gen 2 was going for in teambuilding, this is the single biggest contributor to the moronic level curve
It wasn't really handled well in Gen 1 either, they just had the level spike in Gym leaders earlier than Gen 2 does. The only reason it isn't as notable is because the Gen 1 moveset and AI are even more pathetic than Gen 2 so levels legit doesn't matter.
>>Gyms are still monotype
This is an bigger problem than the Gym's "West Kanto symdrome", Jasmine getting a Lantern or even Cursola would be far more interesting things than her getting a Skamory.
> cut all the fricking unown jesus christ
. Give Unown a powered up swarming form, and give the single stage sitters evolutions. Cut out most of the idiotic baby Pokemon, Only Togepi makes sense
>Cut out most of the idiotic baby Pokemon, Only Togepi makes sense
togepi, tyrogue, elekid, magby, and smoochum can stay. they have purpose (or at least they would if you could find them in the wild) the rest can go
>Gen 2's problems come from my deep set terminally online conspiracy that GF wanted their own follow-up product not to sell as well as the product it is a direct continuation of
See this is what I mean when I said earlier that the majority of people aren't capable of meaningfully criticizing Gen 2 because they just have no idea of the development atmosphere surrounding Gen 2, where GF did and didn't frick up, and what they were ultimately trying to accomplish. Comments like that and "cut out the baby pokemon because they don't make sense" even though the game is about building out the setting and lowering the power curve come across as you screaming "give me Gen 3". Hell, the entire reason the Unown exist as fricking filler is because there were no other new Pokemon to add; Gen 2 was directly intended as Kanto v1.5
The only issue Johto has is that all the wild Pokemon are so low level
>75
>calling any else insufferably insane
lol
lmao even
corviknight lost
Why bother when Polished Crystal already exists
I'm going to play crystal. I haven't played it in ages. What starter should I choose?
Theres no fixing gen 2.
its an objective over Gen 1 due to the AI growing braincell
And later gens aren't much better since despite improving the ai, they make it even easier to overoptimize your starter and sweep the whole game.
Another schizo thinks hes inside the developers head 20 years ago. Yawn.
>IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY BULLSHIT CRITICISMS YOU'RE A BLIND FANBOY
every thread with these children.
Is he actually talking about the issues with the elite 4 and what measurements game freak could have taken to make the experience more enjoyable/challenging or is just the moron that baited people with "how to fix Johto pokemon" and just goes on and on about his stupid rom hack instead of actually talking about the issues of the mons
He's just saying he can romhack in custom pokes with whatever movesets he wants and come up with 'engaging' headcanon justifications for any picks he likes, and then pulling a classic "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!?" over Gamefreak not being able to do the same 25 years ago.
And yes, he is (painfully) shilling his own romhack
I can do a stupid rom hack too if I wanted, anybody can, what a moron.
I'm down for an 8 hour video all about gen 2 development and game freak lack of foresight and small mistakes and the likes, but I have no patience for some random moron with 20 years of hindsight doing a stupid rom hack. "Look at me I'm better than the company that made the game"
>IF YOU CRITICIZE MY FAVORITE GAME YOU'RE A DUMB ZOOMER
every thread with these children.
What would (You) change to make Pokemon Crystal great, Anon?
Gyms / E4 don't use monotype teams
Better AI
WIld Pokemon are higher level
That's literally it
I mean shit, you could do that for every game ngl
We are not talking about every game. Why do Johtoddlers always deflect to other games?
Sorry Anon that Anon replying to you isn't me
>Better AI
Gen 2 actually has hugely improved AI over Gen 1, its just that most trainers don't use the more oddball AI patterns or can't get any use out of them because their teams are so weak and battles are over so quickly.
>start the player out much weaker, probably with baby-level Pokemon since they fell into the story by accident
>bring breeding to the forefront by eliminating IVs and making eggs hatch faster. Make eggs get experience from fights as though they had EXP share and at a certain EXP value it hatches, no step count. Communicate egg moves and other breeding perks IN THE GAME
>make the game more linear and cut Kanto to expand Johto (or in a perfect world have a full Kanto with its own story beats and progression)
>emphasize using trainer encounters to update the pokedex to find rare Pokemon instead of random shit like 1% encounters and headbutt rng
>themed but not monotype gymleaders that evolve from decent gimmicks to knockdown dragout 6v6s IN JOHTO
>make dealing with the legendaries story events so you have more reason to revisit prior areas, to make up for scrapping the nonlinearity. For example, you have to go deal with Lugia after beating Clair and that's how you get a pokemon with Waterfall to enter Kanto, etc.
>put the E4 after Kanto if possible to even out the level curve towards Red
>add more timecalendar events for even more exploration value
proper locations for evo stones
put smoochum, elekid, and magby in the wild
cut pichu, cleffa, and igglybuff
replace them with ambipom, yanmega, and either honchkrow or mismagius. probably mismagius.
add more janine
give morty a misdreavus
and adjust levels so the game flows more smoothly. pryce is fine as is, but chuck should be buffed. and jasmine needs a better team.
>Gym leader rematches
>Better Pokemon distribution
Adjust the encounter and used mechanics like headbutt trees and swarms
>better Team Composition
Expanded the move sets of mobs like Xatu
>Adjusted the Level Curve a bit
I think that’s it
Realistically the only thing I'd change is just have the trainers ready to rematch you whenever like in ORAS instead of waiting for them to call you and that's it
Make the Kanto postgame except for Mt.Silver playable before the Elite Four. Also make the Elite Four stronger than every Gym Leader except for Blue.
Surprised no "Fixing Johto's Gym Leaders, E4, Champion" videos don't look at their teams from Stadium 2.
the Stadium 2 teams do the thing where the gyms are themed but not truly monotype and that's verboten to people still sucking off GameFreak in AD 2023
Some of those teams genuinely are just nonsense though
>Stadium actually respects players
No one denies that Johto had haters. every game had some haters even the Untouchable Gen 1 who had that privilege of defining what a Pokemon game even is had haters. Its just that back then, the people who hated gen 2 back then were people who played the game but didn't like them. For the most part GSC were loved release and a good portion of the fans considered them an upgrade over RBY. They were aware of Gen2's flaws, but consider the games merit's to be strong enough. Ironically HGSS as what made people start looking at more of GSC's flaws simply because HGSS just did everything so much better.
Only around Pchals video did the idea of Gen 2 being "the worst" start becoming wide spread, and most Johto haters weren't just people with understandly different tastes, but nu-fans who know nothing about Johto but only shit on it to to parrot memes. and because Johto is the region that's gone the longest without a new game its easy for nu-fans to be gaslit about it.
>HGSS are still considered among the better pokemon games.
nope, even HGSS is getting hate now. Joe threw them under the bus to defend how shit BDSP where and like clockwork nu-fans are parroting his stupidity saying. Watch, in a few years some troll will say Whitney's ace was Clefable in HGSS and nu-fans will fall for it
you just did it again. you keep attributing criticism to some eceleb and their legions of fans who don't know any better because you can't handle the idea that your favorite gen is flawed.
Anon that's not (Me). Common Gankerner inability to conceive of more than one person disagreeing with them.
>your favorite gen
My favorite gen is gen 3 because I'm a third version chad
>Anon that's not (Me).
well you're doing the same shit so the point still stands
really these poketubes with their "fixing shit" already have me sick, it looks like they never played pokemon on a gameboy without internet access or guides
P.S: sex with candyevie
I stopped watching as soon as he mention Tyranitar. Absolute pleb.
The level curve is a nonexistent issue that is only parroted by idiots who didn’t play the games or can’t even be assed to do some research. The entire idea that level curve is an issue gets thrown out the window when you realize that the e4 was designed for you to be around 10 levels below its highest leveled trainer when you first get to it. These same morons also never played gen 1 since its “level curve” is way worse than gen 2 if what these idiots are referring to is wild pokemon. If its trainers then their idiocy is even worse cause the trainers in gen 1 are massively underleveled when compared to gen 2. Despite all this you will still end up several levels below the champion in both gens and its even more jarring in gen 1 while in gen 2 it just naturally progresses into kanto.