Roll 3d6 versus skill? Subtract the range penalty from your skill? Is addition and subtraction too hard for you?
Is tabletop in general too much math for you?
How does doing that improve the experience in any way? Roll single dice to surpass number difficulty is more than enough and gets the same results with less steps.
If you're so ambivalent to mechanics that the simplest thing that oracles a narrative answer is fine for you, that's cool, but it means no amount of explaining is going to make you "get" it.
The best I can do is to say that some people see the rules as a language of expression, and "minimal" rules are the equivalent of trying to discuss the game concepts in feral grunts.
Right, so it should be the same difficulty to shoot someone 3 yards away who takes up 1/5th of your FOV and to shoot someone 15 yards away who takes up 1/25th of your FOV? What about if they're on horseback and moving? What if YOU'RE on horseback and moving? Because in the type of system you're talking about, they'd all be the same.
>Buh GM can just decide all the difficulties
Then why am I playing a game? The GM is there to arbitrate, not freestyle fricking everything. >Le 50 splats for basic rules
have a nice day.
7 months ago
Anonymous
> Then why am I playing a game? The GM is there to arbitrate, not freestyle fricking everything.
Indeed. What game are you playing a why? A game of calculating that a chance of success must be higher for exactly 3%+5%+2% by RAW rules in a specific situation with certain conditions? In such a game you would need to roll a fricking dice on every sneeze multiple times, so players would at least notice that these adjustments somehow matter. > have a nice day
Please tell me how these little 3.5-like adjustments work for social scenes, crafting, travel? Do I have I to refer to a certain book maybe? And how granular these adjustments are and how they stack considering we are actually rolling 3d6?
Just a reminder that GURPS is a system where by the RAW rules slashing damage more effective against plate armor than any other type.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Reduction to absurdity isn't a great rhetorical tool, so I'm not going to engage with it. >Granularity of adjustments
They're not especially, that's why the adjustments in question do matter, you've answered your own question there? Nor are they, in most situations, hard to remember or calculate. >Do I have to refer to a certain book
No, base set covers most things, unless you want the additional detail for a subsystem. Actually, it's funny, people b***h about 'muh 50 splats,' and then gurps oldgays b***h that 4e's core set is frontloaded and they miss having the rules all in the different splats. >How does it apply to (other things than combat)
However it does? I don't want to avoid this question but you're asking me to recite the fricking rulebook to you, and do you think I have the time? Just go read it and come back and argue from a place of knowing what the frick you're even talking about, christ.
>RAW slashing damage is most effective against plate
This is somewhat innacurate in a few ways, but not entirely wrong. The assumptions the game makes about 'swing damage,' are completely moronic, and its DR scheme is one place where lacking granularity results in some nonsensical outcomes. As the damage multiplier for types by its nature must represent penetration, and Steve is obsessed with full d6's for everything, yes, it means a random peasant can AoA strong and swing a shortsword through plate armor on a good roll, and yes, it's fricking moronic.
My table has long worked on refactoring the damage/DR system for this very reason. Because it does kind of fricking suck.
I'll be honest, I'm more defending the core concept of crunchy/simulationist games at all here, more than GURPS. I'm houseruled so far from core gurps I can't in good conscience recommend it to people, they won't get the experience I'm having anyway.
7 months ago
Anonymous
> I'll be honest, I'm more defending the core concept of crunchy/simulationist games at all here, more than GURPS.
There is nothing wrong with crunch/sim games, but defending GURPS is like defending the 5e. The reputation of these games is a meme and for a reason.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Well, the meme has just not been my actual experience with it.
But as I say, I fully admit at this point 'my experience with gurps,' is like some 5e kids experience with 5e after he's homebrewed over half of it.
But I still feel the bones of it, rolls, basic modifiers, general flow of combat systems, are defensible. Everything beyond that is discardable. But yes, the meme is such that a small part of the motivation for rewriting all my houserules into a revised book is so I can stop saying I play gurps.
>50 splats
size/range/movement modifiers are pretty common in the core rules for most games. Unless you're playing a system where you only roll with le disadvantage.
Steve Jackson didn't write any of those books, he barely even played them. He was off doing something to get his name into Epstein's little black book instead of the creation of GURPS4
>homebrew
Not gurps.
Trajectory and dropoff rules are in the actual books, gamelet.
>I can customize my system just like I customize my body
The ultimate troony system
anon, how would you simplify gurps, keep the 3d6 roll under skill system while maintaining a level of crunch? simpler than the light rules, even. >i wouldnt
dont reply, then >another system
if it has 3d6 roll under, im interested
Start with Lite, and remove skills, derived abilities, advantages, disadvantages, etc, that you don't need. That's 90% of GURPS campaign-building right there.
Wasn't a fan. Savage Worlds for pulpy action stuff, Genesys for crunchier and more flexible outcomes, GURPS is more akin to 3e with an excessive amount of unneeded bullshit. If you like it, run with it, I just have other stuff I prefer.
That said, it's got a freaky moronic amount of splats so you don't have to flesh out shit for the system to run whatever you want.
kinda hits the nail on the head. Full warning, this is coming from a guy who considers GURPS on the lighter end of his usual games, but the autism of GURPS is all in the setup. If 0e is a framework that the DM has to expand upon as situations arise, GURPS is a toolbox that the GM picks and chooses from to build the game. The most famous of these is "realistic gunfighting", drawn from the non-supernatural rules of Base Set and the Tactical Shooting splat, but the same process can be used to produce just about anything. As the designers themselves advocate, GURPS will get you about 80% as far as a setting-specific game, but without the hassle of >buying
and learning a new system. Consequently, GURPS is at its best when a table wants to do a lot of different styles of game, but doesn't have the autism to keep a dozen different systems in their heads at all times. Perhaps a good comparison is the FFG 40k games, which use the same base mechanics in each version, yet produce dramatically different game feels because of their specific tuning.
Once GURPS is actually in motion, it plays surprisingly cleanly, mostly thanks to that unified 3d6 system, the catch is just getting there. It really does need a GM with the right kind of autism to set it all up, but once he's done that, the players can be provided with a list of available options that greatly streamlines the information overload.
Wasn't a fan. Savage Worlds for pulpy action stuff, Genesys for crunchier and more flexible outcomes, GURPS is more akin to 3e with an excessive amount of unneeded bullshit. If you like it, run with it, I just have other stuff I prefer.
That said, it's got a freaky moronic amount of splats so you don't have to flesh out shit for the system to run whatever you want.
GURPS isn't really gatekept. It's a pretty bullshit system. It CAN do pretty much anything, but that doesn't mean it is fun to play or well made. Savage Worlds is pretty shit in a lot of ways, but it is a helluva lot easier to teach and learn PLUS is more fun to actually play mechanically for the bulk of players. Genesys is easier to build stuff for than GURPS and also mechanically more fun to play. GURPS is an incredibly dated system but offers none of the positives of older systems with its autistic design philosophy.
It's "gatekept" in the same way jenkum usage is gatekept. Yeah, anybody can inhale their shit gases to get high, but most just flat out aren't going to do so while the doodoo breathers feel superior about their shit lined lungs.
GURPS is easy to teach. Relevant rules for most games could be distilled to 5-10 pages. For players. It's GM who is going to suffer in preparation stages.
I have taught GURPS to a lot of people, including total newcomers to the hobby. I have only ever struggled when faced with people who refuse to read in general, or people from other TTRPGs whose expectations the system breaks. Neither of those problems are unique to GURPS; I have faced them when teaching Fate as well. In fact, the "I don't want to read" motherfrickers are less capable of building a good Fate aspect than they are at choosing advantages and skills from a list.
Also, being an older "outdated" system is a fricking selling point. The modern trend in TTRPGs toward collective storytelling is poison. What if I'm not a theater kid? What if I don't want to play act in a sub-par soap opera with a fantasy backdrop? What then? Is the hobby just not for me? Frick off.
>GURPS is easy to teach
Not compared to other generic systems.
3D6 and simple mathematical operations seems easier to teach than the theology of critical success/failure or correctly memorizing the tables of THAC0.
>memorizing tables of THAC0
First off, pic is not THAC0. THAC0 is a shorthand for those tables that is statistically not identical.
Second, those tables come on the DM screen for a reason. Absolutely no one is expected to memorize that, much less the players who by rights shouldn't even ever see it.
>3d6 is easier than "did you roll a 4 or higher?"
No. >But there are modifiers too
In both systems, so it doesn't help your case of GURPS being easier.
Fundamentally, GURPS is a bloated prostitute of a crunch system with more splats than common sense. It functions, it does have what you need to work, however, if you are trying to make something work with just a CRB, GURPS is a trash generic system because of the Herculean amount of work on the GM side to make something quasi-decent compared to MOST other universal systems.
>It's GM who is going to suffer in preparation stages.
Maybe early on. It's easy to prep for once you know what you're doing, but the game sure isn't going to teach you especially well.
[...] >GURPS is easy to teach
Not compared to other generic systems.
Eh, I dunno. I can get new people up in a matter of minutes really, It's hard to imagine much else being that much easier.
I have taught GURPS to a lot of people, including total newcomers to the hobby. I have only ever struggled when faced with people who refuse to read in general, or people from other TTRPGs whose expectations the system breaks. Neither of those problems are unique to GURPS; I have faced them when teaching Fate as well. In fact, the "I don't want to read" motherfrickers are less capable of building a good Fate aspect than they are at choosing advantages and skills from a list.
Also, being an older "outdated" system is a fricking selling point. The modern trend in TTRPGs toward collective storytelling is poison. What if I'm not a theater kid? What if I don't want to play act in a sub-par soap opera with a fantasy backdrop? What then? Is the hobby just not for me? Frick off.
I didn't even try GURPS until I had wasted way too many hours on SW and (the star wars version of) Genesys.
Is GURPS too clunky? Yes. Does it require too much tedious cross-referencing, especially for newbies? Yes. Is the organization of the mechanics for 4e good? No. Could it *REALLY* use a digital version with better organization, in offline app form? 100%. But its from the early 2000s. It is what it is.
Would I ever consider Genesys or SW instead? Not a chance. Only way I'd play Genesys again is if someone in my best-friend-gaming-group *really* wanted to run it. SW on the other hand - I'd pass on that campaign even with them. Those games were easy, but their mechanics made the gameplay bad. Give me GURPS' more world- sim type mechanics instead, any day.
GURPS is the C++ of TTRPGS. >Been around since 1985 >Tons of available features, though anyone with a brain uses only a subset >Gives you the power to have a nice day in the foot >Extremely slow and clumsy in the hands of the inexperienced >Once you know what you're doing, it's the best thing available for games
The main difference is that some people actually like GURPS.
I really appreciated that last line. I didn't disagree with any if your other claims, but the whole way down I was thinking "But I like GURPS, and hate working in C++". So good on you. I only know one dev who likes c++. Lol
Those who dont get GURPS have poor reading comprehension, attention spans, or are, in simpler terms, fricking moronic.
Gurps is not hard, rules you do not like NEED NOT BE USED. You dont like the extra steps of shooting a bow? Don't. Don't give a shit about bleeding or wounds or stunning? Dont use it. It is that simple.
>But it takes more time to get into!
Not really.
Start with making a character
You dont pick a character off a shelf, and you dont go shopping for abilities either. So throw that shit out the window, think about what person you want to play THEN go make that character. This isnt le dnd multiclassing powergaming which is essentially just fricking Yu-Gi-Oh as a ttrpg. "If this then that" type of gaming is boring and convoluted.
After you make a character THEN you may go read the game master section and decide what rules YOU want to DEAL with.
It is fricking easy, and if you cant figure it out.. then im sorry but that means youre an idiot and should probably seek some sort of grade school level education first
Do you also go to the hardware store and buy every tool they have regardless of whether tou have a need for it? "Only the parts you need". Ignore the stuff that's not relevant to the game you want to run. This is not adventurers league where you are expected to use absolutely everything hasbro shits out, its a toolshed of tools for most games you might want to run.
Basic Roleplaying is a reasonable alternative. Or the upthread storygames if you enjoy aspects and metacurrency.
>It's a series of tools
No shit. It's also a functional system that is as engaging as cold toast. GURPS works, but GURPS is not fun nor engaging to run, build stuff with, or play.
What kind of game do you want to run?
Hooking dynamite at hookers from space? Savage Worlds
Trying to convince hookers from space to give you a discount? Fate.
Successfully talking the hookers from space into giving you a discount THEN blasting them with dynamite to get your money back anyway? Genesys
Doing that while catching AIDS? PbtA
Savage Worlds.
The system itself was originally made for a skirmish game set in the Deadlands universe, but it evolved into a generic system. It is known for incredibly swingy combat because of the exploding dice mechanic, but if you go into knowing that, the combat itself is incredibly fast by TTRPG standards. It is very much geared toward kick in a door and tommy gun the frickers kind of play style though and falls apart of you want to do toned down stuff.
What if you don't enjoy metacurrency as a game mechanic and want a character that mechanically interacts with a consistent world in meaningful ways you can make plans around and have an about as much if an idea what your odds of success are as in real life? Thats a good list of some of the games I've enjoyed the least in the past 15 years though. - I did like the edge of the empire mechanic where everyone had baggage and die rolls determined if they would come up though. That was a fun requirement for player characters.
Yeah. Theres a reason I liked it when I read it, I was wondering if he might have some recommendation I havent tried / read.
I do want to try HARN though, and Rolemaster is pretty fun, but neither of those are trying to be universal systems. I also liked BRP and Mythras alright, though they're not so suited for weird abilities, whereas GURPS has powers.
The first brand new TTRPG thing that's really grabbed my attention is Menyr, and it's a user-extensible VTT that handles like a videogame. Kindof like a modern day NWN. Hopefully the actual release is as good as the videos look.
>What if you don't like meta-currency
I have never understood why people don't like using a meta-currency but will stack a shit ton of modifiers on something to achieve a result and act like that isn't just as much of a metagaming result.
Bennies are nothing more than a resource to be managed like money, ammo, ki points, spell slots, power points, etc. >Making characters that react in a mechanically consistent world
Savage Worlds is pretty consistent. Shit doesn't stop being swingy and a TN of 4 outside of melee combat is the norm. >Odds of success in real life
Oh. Yeah, no. SW is complete dog shit for realism. If you want real life stories and such, run away from SW like your head is on fire. SW is where undead cowboys slam back booze to keep their innards pickled while using a Gatling pistol to shoot a train robbing ghost so hard they materialize physical organs to spray on the other ghosts causing them to run away. SW is what you play if you want to sew werewolf claws onto your wrists to replace your hands so you disembowel street thugs in Victorian England. It is not about anything even remotely dealing with slow, methodical realism and if that's what you want, it is absolutely a terrible fit.
>I have never understood why people don't like using a meta-currency but will stack a shit ton of modifiers on something to achieve a result and act like that isn't just as much of a metagaming result.
I like making plans to achieve my goals within a consistent virtual world and knowing success isn't a given, but that good planning will make it likely. And bad planning will make you far more likely to fail. I find that fun. The planning is one of the more fun parts, as is seeing the plans progress within that shared virtual environment.
>Bennies are nothing more than a resource to be managed like money, ammo, ki points, spell slots, power points, etc.
I also don't enjoy non-simulationist resources like "rages per day". Ammo is fine. It's a plausible thing that both I as the player, and my character, in-character, can both make plans to achieve our goals with. And I want my plan and my character's plan to line up because I enjoy thinking that through in-character.
>Oh. Yeah, no. SW is complete dog shit for realism.
I don't want 'realism' as in 'stories that mimic mundane reality' - I want the game heavily involving planning-in-character using in-character-information to achieve in-character-goals, like I can plan in real-life, using real-life-information.
Which is an experience I don't get from metacurrency-centric-games or storygames. The thing I find fun has been removed.
Doesnt have to be GURPS though. Some BRP derivatives can be alright for that kind of gameplay so long as it's one of the ones with more fleshed out task difficulty benchmarks the players can meaningfully internalize and grok to plan with, and not one of the 'I dunno the GM will just make up the difficulty modifiers on the fly no guidelines for you get fricked".
The most fun part of shadowrun is casing the joint and planning a heist.
Maybe some day videogames will be able to deliver a similar experience to what I like from TTRPGs, but for now, the NPCs are just too stupid.
>What if you don't like meta-currency
I have never understood why people don't like using a meta-currency but will stack a shit ton of modifiers on something to achieve a result and act like that isn't just as much of a metagaming result.
Bennies are nothing more than a resource to be managed like money, ammo, ki points, spell slots, power points, etc. >Making characters that react in a mechanically consistent world
Savage Worlds is pretty consistent. Shit doesn't stop being swingy and a TN of 4 outside of melee combat is the norm. >Odds of success in real life
Oh. Yeah, no. SW is complete dog shit for realism. If you want real life stories and such, run away from SW like your head is on fire. SW is where undead cowboys slam back booze to keep their innards pickled while using a Gatling pistol to shoot a train robbing ghost so hard they materialize physical organs to spray on the other ghosts causing them to run away. SW is what you play if you want to sew werewolf claws onto your wrists to replace your hands so you disembowel street thugs in Victorian England. It is not about anything even remotely dealing with slow, methodical realism and if that's what you want, it is absolutely a terrible fit.
Playing out those plans and adapting to unexpected complications is fun too of course. Testing your planning skills to see if the plan was good. Watching it pay off if it was, and struggling or failing if it wasn't.
In storygames and games with a lot of metacurrency dependency, the quality of your plan doesnt matter, or if it does, is all just out-of-character resource management.
Open ended puzzle videogames like portal are the next closest thing, but they fall apart when you interact with other people because the other people are very stupid bots. Maybe I'd like Eve Online? It might be the next best thing in videogame form.
But FATE and Savage Worlds didnt scratch my RPG itch. FFG Star Wars (Genesys) sort of did okay, but the force point metacurrency was a big negative. I havent played the non-starwars version of Genesys.
Ah (Gurps, gurps, gurps)
Ah
Do you like my game? (My game, my game)
Guess you're ready, 'cause I'm waiting for you
It's gonna be so exciting
Got this feeling really deep in my soul
Let's get in, I wanna run
Come along, get it on
Gonna take my dice, gonna sit in
Gonna shill along 'til I get you
'Cause I'm crazy, hot and ready
But you'll like it
I wanna run for you
Shall I go now?
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
Tonight I'll fly
And be your game master
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It'll be so Lite as a flash
And it will not be HERO
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna run it in a flash
Tonight we'll fight
To be the winners
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
And you'll seethe big show
Don't be lazy, 'cause I'm gming for you
It's like a hot sensation
Got this powers solat that is taking me out
Yes, I've got a template for you
Ready, now, ready, go
Gonna run my game, gonna sit in
Gonna shill along 'til I get you
'Cause I'm crazy, hot and ready
But you'll like it
I wanna run it for you
Shall I go now?
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
Tonight I'll fly
And be your game master
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It'll be so Lite as a flash
And It wont be HERO
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna run it in a flash
Tonight we'll fight
To be the winners
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
And you'll seethe big show
[Guitar Solo]
[Bridge]
Gonna run my game
Do you like my game?
'Cause I'm crazy, hot and ready
But you'll like it
I wanna run it for you, shall we go now?
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
Tonight I'll fly
And be your game master
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It'll be so Lite as a flash
And It wont be HERO
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna run it in a flash
Tonight we'll fight
To be the winners
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
And you'll seethe big show
[Outro]
Gurps, gurps, gurps
Yeah, yeah (Yeah)
Gurps, gurps, gurps
And you'll seethe big show
Ah
I missed that it's death happened. Mix of coming to /tg/ less often, and nobody there talking about anything but new releases (or pitching a fit whenever people discussed their campaigns or blogger / forum homebrew). There was almost never any actual interesting discussion going on there. I think the last interesting diacussion I had was with eggplant about why he built aomething in a particular way, discussing one of his homebrew blog posts. But that was probably some time in 2021.
That's one guy, who does that on purpose out of spite (probably the same one who constantly tries to force edition wars). Eggplant just moved to his own youtube channel since there is a much bigger audience there, don't know about the others, Balthazar occasionally posts. /gurpsgen/ is and will always be a FAQ central for new players/GMs.
Even if its one guy, he was pretty successful in making the thread a boring place with basically nothing but 'hey what book is this in again?'
Definitely not one guy, because I am complicit in this, but there were others upset about bloggers, attention prostitute namegays, tripgays, and trannies.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ehh. Bloggers made fun homebrew, and Eggplant makes better material than Rice. But, when you make the thread bland and slow, it dies.
Did anyone tried to make a game with GURPS?
Like, create classes and all level powerups and shit?
Hiding the granular point accounting from new prospective players etc.
> inb4 why not use another system tho?
doing the hard way for the fun of it
besides, everything will be balanced, i guess
I hide the granular point accounting from players by just not using it. A simulationist generic system doesn't really need gamey chargen rules, as it turns out.
Try to spend at least x on this stuff and Y on this stuff. You get this stuff automatically. Aim for a ballpark around this total. But mostly just build what you want to play, exact point accounting isnt required. Just dont build superman in our daredevil campaign.
GURPS was intended to be the system for the original Fallout, but Steve Jackson pulled out at the last second when he saw how grimdark the game was, so the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system was something they Black personrigged at the last second
GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSsnnnnniiiiiiffffffffffff...oh yes my dear....sssnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff....quite generic indeed...is that....dare I say....sssssssnniff...realism I smell?......sniff sniff....hmmm...yes...quite so my darling....sniff....quite heroic realism yes very much so .....ssssssssssssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiffffff....ah yes...and also....a hint of....sniff....cinematic universal my dear....sniff...but of yes...this will do nicely....sniff.....please my dear....another if you please....nice a big now....GGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRPPPPPPSSS Oh yes...very good!....very generic and universal my dear....hmmmmm...is that a Pyramid issue I see on the rim?...hmmmm.....let me.....let me just have a little taste before the sniff my darling.......hmmmmm....hmm..yes....that is a delicate bit of magazine my dear....ah yes....let me guess...another TFT kickstarter?....oh quite right I am....aren't I?....ok....time for sniff.....sssssnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff.....hmmm...hhhmmmmm I see...yes....yes indeed as well DFRPG......hmmm....that lack of editorial staff is quite noticeable....yes.....blogposts I take it my dear?.....hmmmmm....yes quite.....GUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSS Oh I was not expecting that…that little gust my dear….you caught me off guard…yes…so generic it was though…hmmmm…let me taste this little one…just one small sniff…..sniff…ah….ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffffff…and yet…so strong…yes…the flavor….sniff sniff…hmmm….is that….sniff….hmmm….I can almost taste it my dear…..yes….just…sniff….a little whiff more if you please…..ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffff…ah yes I have it now….yes quite….hhhhmmmm…delectable my dear…..quite exquisite yes…..I dare say…sniff….the most generic and universal one yet my dear….ssssnnnnniiiifffffffffffffffffffffff….yes….?
Ah yes rolemaster, truly REAL simulationism >player: "Hey GM i want to try a called shot to the neck" >GM *farts, piss and shits himself while desperately trying to find the appropriate table (which doesn't exist, there's no table for licalised hits)*
Enter the real simulationist mudcore chad system (picrel).
Ah yes, more math just to pretend i'm using a bow.
>homebrew
Not gurps.
Roll 3d6 versus skill? Subtract the range penalty from your skill? Is addition and subtraction too hard for you?
Is tabletop in general too much math for you?
How does doing that improve the experience in any way? Roll single dice to surpass number difficulty is more than enough and gets the same results with less steps.
>gets the same results with less steps
It doesn't, and the modifiers are applied to "roll single die to surpass target number" resolutions as well.
If you're so ambivalent to mechanics that the simplest thing that oracles a narrative answer is fine for you, that's cool, but it means no amount of explaining is going to make you "get" it.
The best I can do is to say that some people see the rules as a language of expression, and "minimal" rules are the equivalent of trying to discuss the game concepts in feral grunts.
Autism.
Right, so it should be the same difficulty to shoot someone 3 yards away who takes up 1/5th of your FOV and to shoot someone 15 yards away who takes up 1/25th of your FOV? What about if they're on horseback and moving? What if YOU'RE on horseback and moving? Because in the type of system you're talking about, they'd all be the same.
Are you moronic? GM just adjust difficulty if necessary. He doesn't need 50 splat books to do that.
>Buh GM can just decide all the difficulties
Then why am I playing a game? The GM is there to arbitrate, not freestyle fricking everything.
>Le 50 splats for basic rules
have a nice day.
> Then why am I playing a game? The GM is there to arbitrate, not freestyle fricking everything.
Indeed. What game are you playing a why? A game of calculating that a chance of success must be higher for exactly 3%+5%+2% by RAW rules in a specific situation with certain conditions? In such a game you would need to roll a fricking dice on every sneeze multiple times, so players would at least notice that these adjustments somehow matter.
> have a nice day
Please tell me how these little 3.5-like adjustments work for social scenes, crafting, travel? Do I have I to refer to a certain book maybe? And how granular these adjustments are and how they stack considering we are actually rolling 3d6?
Just a reminder that GURPS is a system where by the RAW rules slashing damage more effective against plate armor than any other type.
Reduction to absurdity isn't a great rhetorical tool, so I'm not going to engage with it.
>Granularity of adjustments
They're not especially, that's why the adjustments in question do matter, you've answered your own question there? Nor are they, in most situations, hard to remember or calculate.
>Do I have to refer to a certain book
No, base set covers most things, unless you want the additional detail for a subsystem. Actually, it's funny, people b***h about 'muh 50 splats,' and then gurps oldgays b***h that 4e's core set is frontloaded and they miss having the rules all in the different splats.
>How does it apply to (other things than combat)
However it does? I don't want to avoid this question but you're asking me to recite the fricking rulebook to you, and do you think I have the time? Just go read it and come back and argue from a place of knowing what the frick you're even talking about, christ.
>RAW slashing damage is most effective against plate
This is somewhat innacurate in a few ways, but not entirely wrong. The assumptions the game makes about 'swing damage,' are completely moronic, and its DR scheme is one place where lacking granularity results in some nonsensical outcomes. As the damage multiplier for types by its nature must represent penetration, and Steve is obsessed with full d6's for everything, yes, it means a random peasant can AoA strong and swing a shortsword through plate armor on a good roll, and yes, it's fricking moronic.
My table has long worked on refactoring the damage/DR system for this very reason. Because it does kind of fricking suck.
I'll be honest, I'm more defending the core concept of crunchy/simulationist games at all here, more than GURPS. I'm houseruled so far from core gurps I can't in good conscience recommend it to people, they won't get the experience I'm having anyway.
> I'll be honest, I'm more defending the core concept of crunchy/simulationist games at all here, more than GURPS.
There is nothing wrong with crunch/sim games, but defending GURPS is like defending the 5e. The reputation of these games is a meme and for a reason.
Well, the meme has just not been my actual experience with it.
But as I say, I fully admit at this point 'my experience with gurps,' is like some 5e kids experience with 5e after he's homebrewed over half of it.
But I still feel the bones of it, rolls, basic modifiers, general flow of combat systems, are defensible. Everything beyond that is discardable. But yes, the meme is such that a small part of the motivation for rewriting all my houserules into a revised book is so I can stop saying I play gurps.
>50 splats
size/range/movement modifiers are pretty common in the core rules for most games. Unless you're playing a system where you only roll with le disadvantage.
Vehicles?
>my autismo couldn't finish a single system
>steve jackson releases dozens of autismo books covering all kinds of specific gametypes
It's not fair
Steve Jackson didn't write any of those books, he barely even played them. He was off doing something to get his name into Epstein's little black book instead of the creation of GURPS4
Trajectory and dropoff rules are in the actual books, gamelet.
D&Done deflection post.
My beloved.
What's the book on Asparagus like? Is it worth it?
GURPS: Aspargus Fantasy neverever
>I can customize my system just like I customize my body
The ultimate troony system
anon, how would you simplify gurps, keep the 3d6 roll under skill system while maintaining a level of crunch? simpler than the light rules, even.
>i wouldnt
dont reply, then
>another system
if it has 3d6 roll under, im interested
Light is not crunchy. Your task is thus impossible. I propose killing yourself now.
GURPS Ultra-Lite exist anon
Nothing is impossible for gurps
I like how the blurb explaining that RPG, PC, GM, 3d6 and npcs *won't* be explained is big enough to have easily explained these terms.
Excellent infographic design
Start with Lite, and remove skills, derived abilities, advantages, disadvantages, etc, that you don't need. That's 90% of GURPS campaign-building right there.
kinda hits the nail on the head. Full warning, this is coming from a guy who considers GURPS on the lighter end of his usual games, but the autism of GURPS is all in the setup. If 0e is a framework that the DM has to expand upon as situations arise, GURPS is a toolbox that the GM picks and chooses from to build the game. The most famous of these is "realistic gunfighting", drawn from the non-supernatural rules of Base Set and the Tactical Shooting splat, but the same process can be used to produce just about anything. As the designers themselves advocate, GURPS will get you about 80% as far as a setting-specific game, but without the hassle of
>buying
and learning a new system. Consequently, GURPS is at its best when a table wants to do a lot of different styles of game, but doesn't have the autism to keep a dozen different systems in their heads at all times. Perhaps a good comparison is the FFG 40k games, which use the same base mechanics in each version, yet produce dramatically different game feels because of their specific tuning.
Once GURPS is actually in motion, it plays surprisingly cleanly, mostly thanks to that unified 3d6 system, the catch is just getting there. It really does need a GM with the right kind of autism to set it all up, but once he's done that, the players can be provided with a list of available options that greatly streamlines the information overload.
Anyway, yeah, thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Wasn't a fan. Savage Worlds for pulpy action stuff, Genesys for crunchier and more flexible outcomes, GURPS is more akin to 3e with an excessive amount of unneeded bullshit. If you like it, run with it, I just have other stuff I prefer.
That said, it's got a freaky moronic amount of splats so you don't have to flesh out shit for the system to run whatever you want.
>GURPS Motherfrickers
I'm not familiar with that splatbook, what's in it?
Has a few one-shot campaigns set in ancient greece while also having detailed rules regarding genetic defects resulting from incest
GURPS GURPS GURPS GURPS GURPS
Nobody cares
I LOVE GURPS!!! I WOULD GIVE MY LIFE FOR GURPS!!!!!!!!!!!
>Japanese people get the R and L confused
>System is now called GULPS
self filtering
GURPS isn't really gatekept. It's a pretty bullshit system. It CAN do pretty much anything, but that doesn't mean it is fun to play or well made. Savage Worlds is pretty shit in a lot of ways, but it is a helluva lot easier to teach and learn PLUS is more fun to actually play mechanically for the bulk of players. Genesys is easier to build stuff for than GURPS and also mechanically more fun to play. GURPS is an incredibly dated system but offers none of the positives of older systems with its autistic design philosophy.
It's "gatekept" in the same way jenkum usage is gatekept. Yeah, anybody can inhale their shit gases to get high, but most just flat out aren't going to do so while the doodoo breathers feel superior about their shit lined lungs.
>tids copypasta outside grognards.txt
lul
GURPS is easy to teach. Relevant rules for most games could be distilled to 5-10 pages. For players. It's GM who is going to suffer in preparation stages.
>Suffer
Yeah, but in that autistic obsessive blissful way though 🙂
>GURPS is easy to teach
Not compared to other generic systems.
3D6 and simple mathematical operations seems easier to teach than the theology of critical success/failure or correctly memorizing the tables of THAC0.
>memorizing tables of THAC0
First off, pic is not THAC0. THAC0 is a shorthand for those tables that is statistically not identical.
Second, those tables come on the DM screen for a reason. Absolutely no one is expected to memorize that, much less the players who by rights shouldn't even ever see it.
>3d6 is easier than "did you roll a 4 or higher?"
No.
>But there are modifiers too
In both systems, so it doesn't help your case of GURPS being easier.
Fundamentally, GURPS is a bloated prostitute of a crunch system with more splats than common sense. It functions, it does have what you need to work, however, if you are trying to make something work with just a CRB, GURPS is a trash generic system because of the Herculean amount of work on the GM side to make something quasi-decent compared to MOST other universal systems.
>seems easier to teach than the theology of critical success/failure or correctly memorizing the tables of THAC0.
evidently not.
>It's GM who is going to suffer in preparation stages.
Maybe early on. It's easy to prep for once you know what you're doing, but the game sure isn't going to teach you especially well.
Eh, I dunno. I can get new people up in a matter of minutes really, It's hard to imagine much else being that much easier.
I have taught GURPS to a lot of people, including total newcomers to the hobby. I have only ever struggled when faced with people who refuse to read in general, or people from other TTRPGs whose expectations the system breaks. Neither of those problems are unique to GURPS; I have faced them when teaching Fate as well. In fact, the "I don't want to read" motherfrickers are less capable of building a good Fate aspect than they are at choosing advantages and skills from a list.
Also, being an older "outdated" system is a fricking selling point. The modern trend in TTRPGs toward collective storytelling is poison. What if I'm not a theater kid? What if I don't want to play act in a sub-par soap opera with a fantasy backdrop? What then? Is the hobby just not for me? Frick off.
gatekeepers are fat
Makes it easier to keep a gate closed.
this is unironically why one bouncer is usually fat, just to block the door
I didn't even try GURPS until I had wasted way too many hours on SW and (the star wars version of) Genesys.
Is GURPS too clunky? Yes. Does it require too much tedious cross-referencing, especially for newbies? Yes. Is the organization of the mechanics for 4e good? No. Could it *REALLY* use a digital version with better organization, in offline app form? 100%. But its from the early 2000s. It is what it is.
Would I ever consider Genesys or SW instead? Not a chance. Only way I'd play Genesys again is if someone in my best-friend-gaming-group *really* wanted to run it. SW on the other hand - I'd pass on that campaign even with them. Those games were easy, but their mechanics made the gameplay bad. Give me GURPS' more world- sim type mechanics instead, any day.
gatekeepers are fat
2E is great & has the superior version of the sourcebooks.
Wouldn't touch anything published from 3E, let alone the abomination that is 4E and onward.
My goal is to one day become leader of my country and enact GURPS as official test to determine if noncitizens be treated as human or no....
I appreciate how you don't specify if the non-humans are those who can or can't wrap their head around GURPS.
GURPS is the C++ of TTRPGS.
>Been around since 1985
>Tons of available features, though anyone with a brain uses only a subset
>Gives you the power to have a nice day in the foot
>Extremely slow and clumsy in the hands of the inexperienced
>Once you know what you're doing, it's the best thing available for games
The main difference is that some people actually like GURPS.
I really appreciated that last line. I didn't disagree with any if your other claims, but the whole way down I was thinking "But I like GURPS, and hate working in C++". So good on you. I only know one dev who likes c++. Lol
>gurps thread
>no gurps frog
For shame
Those who dont get GURPS have poor reading comprehension, attention spans, or are, in simpler terms, fricking moronic.
Gurps is not hard, rules you do not like NEED NOT BE USED. You dont like the extra steps of shooting a bow? Don't. Don't give a shit about bleeding or wounds or stunning? Dont use it. It is that simple.
>But it takes more time to get into!
Not really.
Start with making a character
You dont pick a character off a shelf, and you dont go shopping for abilities either. So throw that shit out the window, think about what person you want to play THEN go make that character. This isnt le dnd multiclassing powergaming which is essentially just fricking Yu-Gi-Oh as a ttrpg. "If this then that" type of gaming is boring and convoluted.
After you make a character THEN you may go read the game master section and decide what rules YOU want to DEAL with.
It is fricking easy, and if you cant figure it out.. then im sorry but that means youre an idiot and should probably seek some sort of grade school level education first
So you mean to get the most out of GURPS, I just gotta ignore the rules presented? That's not a good selling point.
Do you also go to the hardware store and buy every tool they have regardless of whether tou have a need for it? "Only the parts you need". Ignore the stuff that's not relevant to the game you want to run. This is not adventurers league where you are expected to use absolutely everything hasbro shits out, its a toolshed of tools for most games you might want to run.
Basic Roleplaying is a reasonable alternative. Or the upthread storygames if you enjoy aspects and metacurrency.
>It's a series of tools
No shit. It's also a functional system that is as engaging as cold toast. GURPS works, but GURPS is not fun nor engaging to run, build stuff with, or play.
So what's the better system then?
What kind of game do you want to run?
Hooking dynamite at hookers from space? Savage Worlds
Trying to convince hookers from space to give you a discount? Fate.
Successfully talking the hookers from space into giving you a discount THEN blasting them with dynamite to get your money back anyway? Genesys
Doing that while catching AIDS? PbtA
I'm looking for a game that can replicate a team based shooter
SW for speed, but not realistic combat for shit.
Chaosium's generic system if you want something more grounded.
>SW
Does that stand for star wars?
Savage Worlds.
The system itself was originally made for a skirmish game set in the Deadlands universe, but it evolved into a generic system. It is known for incredibly swingy combat because of the exploding dice mechanic, but if you go into knowing that, the combat itself is incredibly fast by TTRPG standards. It is very much geared toward kick in a door and tommy gun the frickers kind of play style though and falls apart of you want to do toned down stuff.
What if you don't enjoy metacurrency as a game mechanic and want a character that mechanically interacts with a consistent world in meaningful ways you can make plans around and have an about as much if an idea what your odds of success are as in real life?
Thats a good list of some of the games I've enjoyed the least in the past 15 years though. - I did like the edge of the empire mechanic where everyone had baggage and die rolls determined if they would come up though. That was a fun requirement for player characters.
Gurps
Yeah. Theres a reason I liked it when I read it, I was wondering if he might have some recommendation I havent tried / read.
I do want to try HARN though, and Rolemaster is pretty fun, but neither of those are trying to be universal systems. I also liked BRP and Mythras alright, though they're not so suited for weird abilities, whereas GURPS has powers.
The first brand new TTRPG thing that's really grabbed my attention is Menyr, and it's a user-extensible VTT that handles like a videogame. Kindof like a modern day NWN. Hopefully the actual release is as good as the videos look.
>What if you don't like meta-currency
I have never understood why people don't like using a meta-currency but will stack a shit ton of modifiers on something to achieve a result and act like that isn't just as much of a metagaming result.
Bennies are nothing more than a resource to be managed like money, ammo, ki points, spell slots, power points, etc.
>Making characters that react in a mechanically consistent world
Savage Worlds is pretty consistent. Shit doesn't stop being swingy and a TN of 4 outside of melee combat is the norm.
>Odds of success in real life
Oh. Yeah, no. SW is complete dog shit for realism. If you want real life stories and such, run away from SW like your head is on fire. SW is where undead cowboys slam back booze to keep their innards pickled while using a Gatling pistol to shoot a train robbing ghost so hard they materialize physical organs to spray on the other ghosts causing them to run away. SW is what you play if you want to sew werewolf claws onto your wrists to replace your hands so you disembowel street thugs in Victorian England. It is not about anything even remotely dealing with slow, methodical realism and if that's what you want, it is absolutely a terrible fit.
>I have never understood why people don't like using a meta-currency but will stack a shit ton of modifiers on something to achieve a result and act like that isn't just as much of a metagaming result.
I like making plans to achieve my goals within a consistent virtual world and knowing success isn't a given, but that good planning will make it likely. And bad planning will make you far more likely to fail. I find that fun. The planning is one of the more fun parts, as is seeing the plans progress within that shared virtual environment.
>Bennies are nothing more than a resource to be managed like money, ammo, ki points, spell slots, power points, etc.
I also don't enjoy non-simulationist resources like "rages per day". Ammo is fine. It's a plausible thing that both I as the player, and my character, in-character, can both make plans to achieve our goals with. And I want my plan and my character's plan to line up because I enjoy thinking that through in-character.
>Oh. Yeah, no. SW is complete dog shit for realism.
I don't want 'realism' as in 'stories that mimic mundane reality' - I want the game heavily involving planning-in-character using in-character-information to achieve in-character-goals, like I can plan in real-life, using real-life-information.
Which is an experience I don't get from metacurrency-centric-games or storygames. The thing I find fun has been removed.
Doesnt have to be GURPS though. Some BRP derivatives can be alright for that kind of gameplay so long as it's one of the ones with more fleshed out task difficulty benchmarks the players can meaningfully internalize and grok to plan with, and not one of the 'I dunno the GM will just make up the difficulty modifiers on the fly no guidelines for you get fricked".
The most fun part of shadowrun is casing the joint and planning a heist.
Maybe some day videogames will be able to deliver a similar experience to what I like from TTRPGs, but for now, the NPCs are just too stupid.
Playing out those plans and adapting to unexpected complications is fun too of course. Testing your planning skills to see if the plan was good. Watching it pay off if it was, and struggling or failing if it wasn't.
In storygames and games with a lot of metacurrency dependency, the quality of your plan doesnt matter, or if it does, is all just out-of-character resource management.
Open ended puzzle videogames like portal are the next closest thing, but they fall apart when you interact with other people because the other people are very stupid bots. Maybe I'd like Eve Online? It might be the next best thing in videogame form.
But FATE and Savage Worlds didnt scratch my RPG itch. FFG Star Wars (Genesys) sort of did okay, but the force point metacurrency was a big negative. I havent played the non-starwars version of Genesys.
gurps gurps gurps
Ah (Gurps, gurps, gurps)
Ah
Do you like my game? (My game, my game)
Guess you're ready, 'cause I'm waiting for you
It's gonna be so exciting
Got this feeling really deep in my soul
Let's get in, I wanna run
Come along, get it on
Gonna take my dice, gonna sit in
Gonna shill along 'til I get you
'Cause I'm crazy, hot and ready
But you'll like it
I wanna run for you
Shall I go now?
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
Tonight I'll fly
And be your game master
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It'll be so Lite as a flash
And it will not be HERO
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna run it in a flash
Tonight we'll fight
To be the winners
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
And you'll seethe big show
Don't be lazy, 'cause I'm gming for you
It's like a hot sensation
Got this powers solat that is taking me out
Yes, I've got a template for you
Ready, now, ready, go
Gonna run my game, gonna sit in
Gonna shill along 'til I get you
'Cause I'm crazy, hot and ready
But you'll like it
I wanna run it for you
Shall I go now?
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
Tonight I'll fly
And be your game master
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It'll be so Lite as a flash
And It wont be HERO
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna run it in a flash
Tonight we'll fight
To be the winners
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
And you'll seethe big show
[Guitar Solo]
[Bridge]
Gonna run my game
Do you like my game?
'Cause I'm crazy, hot and ready
But you'll like it
I wanna run it for you, shall we go now?
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
Tonight I'll fly
And be your game master
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It'll be so Lite as a flash
And It wont be HERO
Gurps, gurps, gurps
I'm gonna run it in a flash
Tonight we'll fight
To be the winners
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I'm gonna shill on /tg/ gurps
And you'll seethe big show
[Outro]
Gurps, gurps, gurps
Yeah, yeah (Yeah)
Gurps, gurps, gurps
And you'll seethe big show
Ah
GURPS!
So did GURPSGEN die?
It did, but it was cancerous anyway, so good riddance
I was wondering with this thread.
I missed that it's death happened. Mix of coming to /tg/ less often, and nobody there talking about anything but new releases (or pitching a fit whenever people discussed their campaigns or blogger / forum homebrew). There was almost never any actual interesting discussion going on there. I think the last interesting diacussion I had was with eggplant about why he built aomething in a particular way, discussing one of his homebrew blog posts. But that was probably some time in 2021.
Oh well. Thanks for confirming.
That's one guy, who does that on purpose out of spite (probably the same one who constantly tries to force edition wars). Eggplant just moved to his own youtube channel since there is a much bigger audience there, don't know about the others, Balthazar occasionally posts. /gurpsgen/ is and will always be a FAQ central for new players/GMs.
t. Eggplant
Even if its one guy, he was pretty successful in making the thread a boring place with basically nothing but 'hey what book is this in again?'
Definitely not one guy, because I am complicit in this, but there were others upset about bloggers, attention prostitute namegays, tripgays, and trannies.
Ehh. Bloggers made fun homebrew, and Eggplant makes better material than Rice. But, when you make the thread bland and slow, it dies.
Did anyone tried to make a game with GURPS?
Like, create classes and all level powerups and shit?
Hiding the granular point accounting from new prospective players etc.
> inb4 why not use another system tho?
doing the hard way for the fun of it
besides, everything will be balanced, i guess
I hide the granular point accounting from players by just not using it. A simulationist generic system doesn't really need gamey chargen rules, as it turns out.
I use it, but only like, as a ballpark.
Try to spend at least x on this stuff and Y on this stuff. You get this stuff automatically. Aim for a ballpark around this total. But mostly just build what you want to play, exact point accounting isnt required. Just dont build superman in our daredevil campaign.
GURPS was intended to be the system for the original Fallout, but Steve Jackson pulled out at the last second when he saw how grimdark the game was, so the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system was something they Black personrigged at the last second
That was debunked already, GURPS was full of gory shit. Interplay just dropped because they didn't felt like owning SJG royalties for life.
>sorry chud, that's been le deboonked!
GURPS really satisfies my Autism with all the specific details and information
It's good for that. I like the many detailed skill modifier examples.
GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSsnnnnniiiiiiffffffffffff...oh yes my dear....sssnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff....quite generic indeed...is that....dare I say....sssssssnniff...realism I smell?......sniff sniff....hmmm...yes...quite so my darling....sniff....quite heroic realism yes very much so .....ssssssssssssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiffffff....ah yes...and also....a hint of....sniff....cinematic universal my dear....sniff...but of yes...this will do nicely....sniff.....please my dear....another if you please....nice a big now....GGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRPPPPPPSSS Oh yes...very good!....very generic and universal my dear....hmmmmm...is that a Pyramid issue I see on the rim?...hmmmm.....let me.....let me just have a little taste before the sniff my darling.......hmmmmm....hmm..yes....that is a delicate bit of magazine my dear....ah yes....let me guess...another TFT kickstarter?....oh quite right I am....aren't I?....ok....time for sniff.....sssssnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff.....hmmm...hhhmmmmm I see...yes....yes indeed as well DFRPG......hmmm....that lack of editorial staff is quite noticeable....yes.....blogposts I take it my dear?.....hmmmmm....yes quite.....GUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSS Oh I was not expecting that…that little gust my dear….you caught me off guard…yes…so generic it was though…hmmmm…let me taste this little one…just one small sniff…..sniff…ah….ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffffff…and yet…so strong…yes…the flavor….sniff sniff…hmmm….is that….sniff….hmmm….I can almost taste it my dear…..yes….just…sniff….a little whiff more if you please…..ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffff…ah yes I have it now….yes quite….hhhhmmmm…delectable my dear…..quite exquisite yes…..I dare say…sniff….the most generic and universal one yet my dear….ssssnnnnniiiifffffffffffffffffffffff….yes….?
>GURPS this, GURPS that
I will stick to true king of sim combat
Ah yes rolemaster, truly REAL simulationism
>player: "Hey GM i want to try a called shot to the neck"
>GM *farts, piss and shits himself while desperately trying to find the appropriate table (which doesn't exist, there's no table for licalised hits)*
Enter the real simulationist mudcore chad system (picrel).