Has there been a bigger example of "You think you do, but you don't!" in tabletop gaming than The Old World?
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Has there been a bigger example of "You think you do, but you don't!" in tabletop gaming than The Old World?
I don't see the problem. I can now buy the models of my childhood dreams without paying 4x the price on Ebay. Also, classic was the last time I enjoyed gaming, all the guys returned for a couple of months and it felt like I was in High School again. Shame about the release schedule being to slow for the new ADD climate.
>I can now buy the models of my childhood dreams without paying 4x the price on Ebay.
my brother, each single metal knight is £9 on MTO
Better than $40.
And a pint is £6. We're not living in 2006 anymore.
>And a pint is £6
the state of city-dwellers.
Ok?
They were going for like £40 on ebay before, so I don't really see what you're whinging aout there.
>$15 for a character model rather that $40 for a plastic tactical rock marine captain in 40K
Yeah, sounds like a discount
pretty much this. I get access to all the TK i want to use for whatever game they fit in. I've got 40 foot skeletons, 32 archers, 40 tomb guard, 3 chariots and 8 cavalry, which pretty much fills in what i was missing from my previously collected stuff. got a sweet TK on bone dragon and a nice-looking priest out of the big box too. I'm satisfied.
You sigmarxism trannies cannot shut up for even a single day about this fricking shitty GW trash, you homosexuals are the only consoomer-brained morons worshipful of israelites enough that they'd actually do free marketing psyops for their "brand". Normal /tg/ users DO NOT PLAY WITH YOUR $200 FIGURINES, they play RPGs with their friends that they pirated the books for, costing nobody anything more than a couple pennies in electricity and internet bandwidth. You're the defective dying breed of humans who were unable to adapt to israeli capitalism, you're the same self absorbed golems as the boomerisraelite generation, fricking worthless hivemind TV people and obligate consumers of anything and everything that is even half heartedly marketed at you. Unplug or have a nice day you demented little freak.
impressively mentally ill post
i like my expensive pretty models. 3D printing is the way of the future though. once it's easier for more people to download a car you'll see GW stop caring about model sales and implode.
>"SIGMARXIST SIGMARXIST"
>"F-fricking corporations...fricking capitalism!"
moronic poorgays are hilarious
Absolutely deranged ramblings. Think before you post anon.
10/10 schizopost; big fan of the rapid oscillation between "capitalism is good" and "capitalism is bad" every sentence
No part of that post endorsed capitalism even a little bit, though..?
BASED, dont mind the paypiggies basedjacks getting mad
I wonder what's the correlation between warhammer consooming and onlyfans consooming... it is probably sky high
>they hated him because he spoke the truth
That’s some tasty frickin’ bait
>he hasn't taken the israeliteess pill
pretty cringe anon.
Nice boobies, tho.
They'll have you cut your dick, while they enlarge their boobs. So they can better T-pose at you.
I kneel before the asshurt. Not even I can be this butthurt.
Im not a siggy piggy, ima square base/jawed chad-- but your post is mega cringe and screams POOR gay
holy mackerel
Keyed
It's going to take a while to bite since everyone is pissing themselves about models still, but ultimately it is just WHFB again, and the novelty will wear off. Because WHFB wasn't great as a game. It might be less objectively shit than GW's current output (well, disregarding 8th edition, that really was fricking dire), but it's not significantly less shit overall, it's just bad in different ways.
And this edition of it is like someone at the studio just packaged up their house rules and called it good. Yeah, they identified obvious massive fricking problems from 8th edition and didn't do them, threw in a few good ideas, but also threw in bad ideas and studiously avoided opportunities to make the game less of a clunky piece of ancient garbage.
The game is the same old shitshow, and once people actually get to the point of trying to play the thing with the same old problems that have not (and simply can't because this shit is nailed to a hastily thrown-together design from the early fricking '80s) been fixed by rearranging a few elements and tweaking a few numbers, we're going to see a whole lot of buyer's remorse/people trying to justify falling for this crap.
>but also threw in bad ideas and studiously avoided opportunities to make the game less of a clunky piece of ancient garbage.
Like what? It basically seems like a more "modern" version of 6e, which is great imo.
It's not modern at all, if anything it's looting quite a bit from 3rd edition in the initiative based combat order, removing save modifiers from strength, reintroducing push-back results in combat and such. But it's stuff like every time instead of just having a clean set amount of something mechanically, it's having to track additional dice rolls and numbers that all adds up. Like Initiative bonus for charging; not a bad idea, but initiative bonus based on how far they moved - pointless extra clunk to track. Armour bane as a special rule being slapped on tons of weapons so that an additional save modifier randomly turning up, often on top an existing modifier is just another thing to slow down resolving attacks. It doesn't seem like much but it all adds up.
It's complexity for the sake of being complex, throwing in 'cool details' on a game already overloaded with detail due to the spells and unit abilities and weapon/armour interactions and magic items and war machines all resolving and breaking in ways and so on. They could have taken the good ideas and just streamlined it a little bit in places, there's no need to go full moronic with the cutting out detail like the one page rules stuff after all, but at least a bit of a tidy up would have gone a very long way to making the game work like people would rather remember it playing like.
The main complaints I've seen so far:
> Dragon-mounted characters are playing a completely different game. Their resilience is at a point where they can't realistically be killed short of another dragon or horrendous misplay, and the VP rules mean they are a net-gain every time.
> Wonky FOC rules leaves the game very vulnerable to spamming certain units. Notable outliers include Demigryphs, Gyrocopters and Wizard Lords.
> FBiGO coupled with a reduction in fighting models means that combats are far grinder than before with chain-pushes being the most likely outcome.
> Orcs are still costed as though they have I2/Animosity which results in silly shit like an armoured, shielded, Arrer Boy being cheaper than an Empire Archer or a Boar Boy somehow being 19pts with 3A, a 3+ save and Counter-charge.
> The Legacy lists are full of holes that will never get fixed. Wizards who can't cast because they have armour, lack of key rules like Magic Attacks or Multiple Wounds, Skaven unit limits being insanely restrictive, or the Slann no longer functional with Temple Guard.
It's not necessarily worse than any previous editions but it's also not the best. It's just another flawed edition riding particularly high on nostalgia.
>> Dragon-mounted characters are playing a completely different game. Their resilience is at a point where they can't realistically be killed short of another dragon or horrendous misplay, and the VP rules mean they are a net-gain every time.
This is more army dependent and how shit is played too. Cause a Bret lord can get extremely easy access to monster slayer along with extreme likelihood of charging first, while other armies like Dwarfs are going to struggle to kill Dragon Lords short of just spamming boltthrowers. Which btw is one thing that you should add to that list, artillery price points are all over the place. Why in the frick would a Dwarf list ever take a great cannon when bolt throwers are more reliable, don't misfire, and get more reliable damage with runes while still costing less than a naked cannon?
That said TOW, especially compared to 8th or 7th for that matter, feels like a strong, great edition with a lot more complexity than the last two sorties of rules by GW, and vastly superior to alternative fantasy wargames on the market of similar scale/battle types. My main issue is that Level 4 wizards are too important and we're back in the same trap where you need a level 4 wizard in your list as an auto-take tax unless you want to spend all match getting hexed to death.
Yes, the trap of "need level 4" is pretty bad. I think level 1s and 2s could have gone with no casting bonus, level 3s +1, level 4s +2. But it is a huge improvement over 8th, and I'd much rather play this over ASOIAF or Conquest. It would be in the conversation of being as good or better then Warhammer Armies Projects, if the pdf armies didn't have all sorts of issues.
Imma be honest with you, as long as I can pick wargear and choose between options that needs to be converted I'm happy
You sound mad
Is your ADD brain not like more then one page of rules anon?
That’s fine there’s this game called “candyland” and it’s much more your speed
splicing memes together in paint isn't going to do anything to allay the accusations of being mad
The limitations on unit movement actually increases the complexity of the game, not to mention the complexity added from relative position and facing mattering. Age of Shitmar is more about unit choice and buff synergies than actual tactical play.
Also your meme is just extremely low effort.
>unit choice and buff synergies
And this is why I can't get into it and why I am iver 40k
Like wise. 40k and AoS is just about who gets their wombo combo off first.
Shits fricking boring.
>not being able to move makes it deeper honest
Limitations can indeed provide depth, anon.
Positioning matters hugely in AoS, and claiming otherwise just shows a lack of understanding of the game system. The movement phase is easily the most important part of the game and all the combos and synergies in the world won't matter if you put your models in places where they can't use them, which is a thing that absolutely happens.
Limitations can provide depth, but that doesn't happen in tow, it's the classic mile wide inch deep problem. Your points about aos movement being most important are spot on, because the depth comes from what you use the movement for not how you do it.
Basic charge, counter charge, planning where the enemy will go, has always been a huge part of WFB. Two mediocre units will beat a superior unit, as long as you position and counter charge right. TOW has plenty of tactical depth, especially compares to GW's other games like 40k.
>slow stuff in the middle
>fast stuff on the sides
>both walk straight forwards
>first player charges
>second player charges in the side
>second player wins
>that took 3 hours
Solved ur game bro
No /tg/ game has ever been “solved” btw.
>first player holds back their center line instead of walking forwards
unsolved it for you bro
>upset that almost every battle in history has looked like someone shutting a door
Emulating history is the quickest way to not have fun.
Harsh but fair, unfortunately most people writing fantasy rules aren't wargaming's best and brightest though and the competition, at least that I'm aware off, isn't spectacular. If only there was a system written by somebody that keeps tabs on innovation in historicals and also has a desire to write immersive fantasy rules rather than just stealing mechanical gimmicks for the sake of it.
WFB also does some things well too, at least in 6th I feel doctrine between different armies is adequately represented, far more than can be said for a lot of other fantasy systems, also people love to tinker with their characters particularly but also unit upgrades, even though its at times minimally consequential.
>far more than can be said for a lot of other fantasy systems
There's definitely a lot worse out there, even just within other editions of WHFB.
It could have been far worse, and clearly they got someone who gave a frick to work on it at least. But for all TOW's attempts to try and make things a bit better, it just adds an amount of crap bits into the mix that simply didn't need to be there, if someone had taken a few minutes to go over and just ask if the change actually fix or improves things rather than just feels like a cool idea. Or when it comes to some of the stuff
lists, just some playtesting and proof-reading should have caught things.
Though lack of proof-reading also seems to be an industry-wide problem right now though as there's some real shite making it into print from a lot of companies that should know better out there.
>the novelty will wear off. Because WHFB wasn't great as a game.
What? None of the fricking major GW releases were "great games".
I enjoyed Fantasy an awful fricking lot and don't care about Age of Shitmar. Hoping this new release means I can get to play the style of game I actually fricking care about again.
People like you are the fricking worst in this hobby.
imo TWWH is going to bring a HUGE number of secondaries in. It brought me in, for context.
I won't make any claims on who it'll bring around since I've been out of the hobby for so long, but certainly some older players will wanna play. That's all I want, folks who wanna play this instead of AoS. All my local buddies still have their fantasy armies so maybe we can get together again and play.
Big part of why so many of us left the hobby is because GW did shit that pushed us out. Fantasy might not be some kind of moneymaker but it's one thing that kept us actually playing and buying.
And none of you could play WHFB until GE gave you permission to do so? Despite having all your fantasy armies and an apparent desire to do so? Explain that to me
NTA but as someone who's was playing maybe a game a month since they stopped supporting fantasy it wasn't about having GWs permission.
With ToW it's an excuse to being people back and get new people in. Having something to look forward to with content updates or rules changes really does make a difference in the community.
>Has there been a bigger example of "You think you do, but you don't!" in tabletop gaming than The Old World?
Yes? The homosexuals that clamored for WH40k to "advance muh plot", only for it to birth nu41k.
Warhammer Fantasy really dodged a bullet and got a relatively clean break by comparison when they established End Times/Age of Smegmar as a de facto different setting altogether, but now as they go back to "The Old World" they will no doubt do their best to make it as shit as possible.
AoS
ToW is performing well.
>AoS
But that's not true at all. Nobody asked for Age of Smegmar and no-one wanted Age of Smegmar. Paypigs and consoomers supported it anyway, of course, but that's beside the point, it was only after the fact.
have a nice day, slopgay.
Kek, those AoS-bait threads back in November and December absolutely mindbroke this homosexual. I'm guessing it's the same troony who called that Ushoran display case collectible "rad"
The what?
You are one sad, strange little man.
Stop projecting troony!
I'm not the one spamming gay console war bullshit but-plastic-toy-soldiers on a Bhutanese carpet making forum
>has deranged fantasies about some AOS boogeyman out to get him because some anon in some distant thread committed the unbearable sin of liking a model you don't like
Yeah bud, I'm sure it isn't you
deluded schizo homosexual, go cry in your containment general
GW put out the old world and is putting its mainline products AOS, 40k and even HH on the back burner in order to get out all the orders for this fricking thing.
This is the biggest case of "You cant see the forest through the trees" The popularity of Fantasy is fricking insane, GW has been having massive amounts of shipping and production issues over the last few years and have barely been able to keep up with restocks. Legion Imperialas is suffering from getting stocked, and now TOW is a disaster of a launch so much so that they have stopped orders of restocks in NA to get their shit together.
GW did not NOT know they were having these issues in their production and shipping lines. The fact GW knew this, and willingly put out The Old world is evident that the popularity and profitability of the old world is so great its worth putting their mainline products on hold for restock.
I am enjoying these death throes of smegmarites.
It's not too late to man up and admit that you bet on the wrong horse, and have been chewing on a shit sandwich for the past 8 years.
The thing is, AoS is not really a "bad game" its just a bad fricking setting/story.
It works great as a skrimish game. Sucks ass as a army fighting game.
The story is fine, stop listening to these asshurt morons who don't even know anything about it.
Don't make us post the maps again, anon...
then just prove my point by posting 1st ed material, which you gathered second hand because you're a moronic secondary who can't form his own opinion.
don't make me post the shark rider again anon
I was gonna give TOW a try but then they decided not to give my favorite metal model (Verminlord) rules
Verminlords don't exist yet. Please understand.
They didn't need to set the game during a time period when all of the interesting armies weren't active
Without making any judgment on the quality of the game or models, I don't understand how anyone is even considering getting into this or any other GW game with the current prices. You have to be at least somewhat insane to pay more than $60 for three(3) miniatures.
That's why sane people are just printing armies. I just printed something like 90 miniatures for 30€
In my experience it's more like $1 for every man-sized miniature in 28mm
Are you including the time you spend arranging your build plate and cleaning and curing or something in that price? Because a liter bottle of resin is like $20~$30 and will print at least like a hundred 28mm dudes
I think it's foolish to only factor in the cost of resin, and besides not all resin is created equally. Electricity, alcohol and other supplies aren't free. Nor are failed prints, which don't happen often but do happen. What I don't factor in is the cost of purchasing the equipment or the files, for obvious reasons.
That's true but I still feel you can do a lot better than $1 per mini once you're all set up unless you are talking about large lads like space marines
Oh I'm sure I could if I was purposely printing for volume or opted for cheaper resin, but I haven't quite reached the point of trying to minmax the dimensions of my build plate yet.
Most of what I print happens to be a few characters or a squad instead of an entire platoon, which I think is more what the average hobbyist aims for.
>electricity
Printers draw little to no electricity, it's around 30w most of the time, 60w when it flashes the uv. The alcohol can be recycled with little waste and last forever in the first place.
Absolute nonsense, you're doing something very badly wrong then
bought the tomb king starter box for 230 usd. seems like good value to me. yah the models are old and ugly, but they are easy to paint, and now i get to focus on getting the fun modern sculpts like tomb guard and snake surfers to fill out the force. if you actually build paint and play w your minis, the value is very very good. also, i have a shit job and its very affordable. do neets hangout on /tg?
I bought all my minis second hand or at sales. I got 2 genestealer cult combat patrols for half price that way. And a bunch of Ogre stuff cheap as chips.
You just need to be a smart shopper. And its not like they're video games or something. These things are gonna be with me for ages.
They upped the price already on some models. The Tomb Guard went from 60 to 80USD on their webstore.
wait really?
Yes. I bought two units at launch and went to check to see if they restocked anything only to find that they were still sold out and their price increased.
just checked the US store it is back in stock but it is $80 which is a lot for 20 plastic miniatures from over a decade ago
They're just trying to frick Mantic. It's not more complicated than that.
Yeah good luck with that lol
Mantic as "budget GW" is old information
They have a big playerbase and their own IP now
I still don't understand why anyone would even look at this when you can 3D print a Warmaster army and have a better game in a better scale that's easier to get newcomers up and running.
>why anyone would even look at this when you can 3D print a Warmaster army
Because wargames not in 28mm scale are not worthy of being played. 28mm heroic is and always will be the only scale that matters, that looks good, and is usable on the tabletop. Anything else is lying to itself. People simply don't play games in 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 1/72, or whatever gay scale some failed company is trying to get you to adopt. If it's not in 28mm, it's not a viable wargame. Period.
tryhard b8
cope
Play TOW
Don't play it
Play Sigmar
Don't play it
Just don't tell me why I have to because all the other options suck without explaining what you love about your game. People always want to know if they gacked the right horse and it's boring, what matters is that you don't keep changing horses mid journey. See it through, this hobby is a lot of work.
I like how Brettonians are almost exclusively bow-wielding ladyknights and flamboyant twinks now. Take THAT, misogyny!
who the flamboyant twink in the book?
I like it because it filters insufferable schizoids out of the hobby
Replacing them by gullible trannies
better than schizoids
as a troon its weird to see someone having that position and not just posting an ACK! gif in agreement.
also yea, I think the bretonnian ladies are really cool and I want to paint one on a pegasus just to have.
You're talking to another troon.
Nobody else finds troons preferable to anything.
See; twitter poll indicating parents would rather have their children babysat by *actual Nazis*
Troons are terminally online, and cluster in spaces that foster anonymity, because being identifiable is cryptonite.
Troons also cluster in places that are high in moronation, autism and fetishism, because that is basically all a troon does.
So what you just described looks like Ganker and the troon traits you put out are that which alot of anons have.
And that's why I basically only come here to laugh at MTGgays and use the warez thread.
I haven't been a regular since well before the /qst/ split.
The moderation here is a little too gay, and a little too moronic.
I'd tell you the webforum I went to, but it would literally autofilter my post.
Which is probably for the best, because it's cosy, based and moves far slower.
It is however, not /tg/ related, and I have yet to find a place to be an obstinate and interminable bigot WHILST playing with little plastic men.
Which is strangely heartening, but leaves me with only my IRL gaming group to bounce ideas off.
Oh well, at least they're real.
moronic, but real.
>that foster anonymity,
well duh, Ganker has always been for homosexuals, why do you think we literally can ourselves oldgay, newbie, necrongay, elfgay etc etc
>because being identifiable is cryptonite.
well, I have a boyfriend (whom I am painting our bretonnians with we make one army at a time together) and have a decent social media presence with real life name attached, real life friends, job etc
this isn't politics, no need to get political. I'm happy you have people to game with and enjoy your company. that's what important and wholesome. also I'm not autistic, a fetishist, and only a little moronic (i buy full price gw products sometimes). the important thing about this board is we thin our paints, lick our brushes and get a nice fine point on that sucker.
Idk about YOUR lgs but mine had maybe 30 people order TOW products in the first week. If 1/6 paint their models that's still the seed of a real community over time.
I think there's even hope they do more rules updates for the "not supported" factions. Id love to see some classic skaven models remastered with current GW quality. I can personally attest to the potential as the bretonnian lord on Pegasus kit was great.
Post the goods
Poll sounds hilarious, link me
Jesus take the wheel
Noting is better than literal genetic deadends
please point me to the bretonnian twink models
Meh, BL has always had shithead authors writing stories that had the thinest of thin coats of WHFB on them.
*COUGH* Genevieve *COUGH*
>Yeah when troons transition
kek.
How do you morons have this same argument day after day after day...
TOW should've been 15mm. No one but absolute whales are spending thousands on blocks of 20+ models.
>spending thousands on blocks of 20+ models.
are you paying in rupees?
Don't worry, you can go run the numbers and tell me how much it costs to buy ridiculous ancient skeleton models in army boxes to fill out a list. I'm sure it wont cost an embarrassing amount compared to 15mm.
Are the rules perfect? No. But I challenge you to find a single fantasy rank and flank game that’s better.
why are the others worse?
I can't speak to Kings of War, which is a direct WFB clone, but ASOIAF is the poster child of a really gamey, trap card esque system bolted on to your rank and flank game, which dominates the system. Conquest isn't bad at all, though shooting got tuned up too much last ed change, idk if they've patched it by now. It tries to simplify WFB to be more "modern", but idk if the game really benefits from it. Also, the models are some of the worst to assemble you'll ever deal with(shit parts labeling, parts for one dude spread over multiple sprues), earlier sculpts are mediocre, moving models is very fiddly, and good luck finding a community. But hey, prices aside the company that makes the game is super community friendly. Hasn't helped them enough.
I'm not worried about it, TOW exceeding expectations has been a good thing.
Note they are still putting out LOTR minis too. Get the board game thingy, your fave humans, elves and orcs and you have minis to use for many games. Bit smaller tho.
Played a game finally. My collection of beastmen is valid and works. My buddy can play his wood elves and not have it split. The game is same but less likely to have a slann nuke a purple sun of xerxes into half my army. My buddy finally got tomb kings so that's next.
I really don't care wtf you sigtards say or secondaries complain about or pointless conjecture of shit i cant control nor care about, we got at least an update to models that haven't seen the light of day for years and a working game system. Idgaf the long term, but I bought the book and plan on getting a jabberslythe since my army is finally back in better form than the end of WHFB and can play with freinds. Simple as
Is the game that bad? Should I look at a different game instead?
Play 6th edition
It's fine.
The indexes are good because we get shit like the new free Deldar detachment. If they print anything in white dwarf they can reprint them there for ease of access.
Wrong thread
Has there ever been a bigger example of you being mad over a thing's existence?
explain what you think OP was mad about and how they expressed being mad over it
who is mad
I've taken one look at the vampire counts army list, thought "wow this is shit"
I'm glad I threw my vampire in the trash years ago
>I'm glad I threw my vampire in the trash years ago
I refuse to believe anyone who actually bought and painted minis did this.
They were a bunch of models that havent seen the tabletop since 2015, and that I couldn't sell. I moved house 7 times since then, trying to find space in each house for several large boxes of models that never get used and won't sell is too much of a hassle
I'm getting close to doing the same with my warmachine models as well. Since those haven't been played since 2018, but those are at least somewhat selling
nta but no idea why you wouldn't simply lower prices or give them away to some kid that that's otherwise struggling to afford it
honestly this, putting them cheap on eBay could have made some broke as college kid happy or at least had a grog take them in
What are you? A charity?
Because I'm not spending money to give them away. My final offer was $100 for the lot, but pickup only.
The other issue was, it was vampire counts, but there was only a handful of official vampire counts models in the army. Which was the lord on zombie dragon and a handful of dogs.
There were a ton of mantic zombies and skeletons.
And everything else was another faction's units but undead-ifyed
Crypt horrors were orges zombies. Grave guard were empire greatswords with ghoul heads. Blood knights were helf blooddragons.
Which was nice for the flavour of being a necromancer and interesting to assemble a bunch of different factions models.
Terrible for resale though.
Especially in that post 2015 time of "the world blew up"
I like Warhammer Fantasy. Simple as.
now thats a cool picture.
As long as they bring back the classic, real Goblin kits and not the half baked moon clan or whatever from AoS I'm going to be really happy.