Have you forgiven WOTC for ruining D&D?
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Have you forgiven WOTC for ruining D&D?
Have you forgiven WOTC for ruining D&D?
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Tip Your Landlord Shirt $21.68 |
yes. ultimately, more people getting into D&D is a good thing. because that means more people who leave D&D to play/develop/experiment with newer, exciting games, while the tentpole of D&D can stay as a quarantine zone for the plebs.
D&D was always filled with identity-politics losers. WotC succeeding in making it way more popular, thus cementing is as a containment game; yes, there are now even more midwits playing D&D, by sheer mass, but that means there are also more tail-end-of-the-bell-curve creative and fun people playing ttrpgs in general. it's good for everyone.
I understand the sentiment you're offering, but at the same time, I can't help but hear
>people giving themselves radiation poisoning is great because it will lead to more people researching nuclear energy!
WotC didn't make D&D more popular. Everyone else did it for them, and because so many external interests have invested in D&D's success, they have only really pushed for more people to stay with D&D.
>WotC didn't make D&D more popular. Everyone else did it for them
This. 3.5 was niche even when it was THE game, 4e was DoA and 5e would be a sunk ship without the surprise explosive popularity of Critical Role and to a lesser extent Stranger Things. Quarantine also probably had some knock-on effects as it had for most media. Point being, it isn't WOTC's doing.
Hell, even fans of 5e will tell you it has exactly 1 official adventure module widely considered "good" and Kenny Crawford is a known moron with RAW essentially becoming a meme in the 5e internet space.
>that means there are also more tail-end-of-the-bell-curve creative and fun people playing ttrpgs in general.
So where are they? I used to find games everywhere, but now there's nothing.
>D&D is more inclusive than ever. They made a niche hobby into a worldwide phenomenon.
And that's a bad thing.
>exactly 1 official adventure module widely considered "good"
The fact that people are now playing official adventure modules is definitive proof of how moronic the playerbase has become.
And that's a bad thing!
>So where are they? I used to find games everywhere, but now there's nothing.
>
>/tg/ will hate this fact #
>>D&D is more inclusive than ever. They made a niche hobby into a worldwide phenomenon.
>And that's a bad thing.
Surely it is not possible these things are related right?
Maybe that sounded coherent in your mind, but out here it is not.
>more games available than ever
>anon somehow can't find a game
is pretty funny when you consider the obvious..
I'm not being refused entry to games, moron. There are no games.
You’re just making shit up at this point, D&D is bordering normalgay-tier at this point and it’s easier to find a game than ever
>The fact that people are now playing official adventure modules is definitive proof of how moronic the playerbase has become
Honestly I would put the blame for that one on Paizo over WotC.
>The fact that people are now playing official adventure modules is definitive proof of how moronic the playerbase has become.
but I liked Red Hand of Doom...
>more people getting into D&D is a good thing
source, my ass!
I love 3.5. It mogs the shit out of 4e and 5e
>I love 3.5.
Fricking gross
It mogs the shit out of 4e and 5e
Well, that's true.
Me too.
It is definitely a better game than 5e if you are the kind that likes to have content to sink your teeth in.
I'd like to play 4e one of these days to form an actual informed opinion.
At face value, the standardization and homogenization of the power system is not something I enjoy, but it isn't necessarily a deal breaker.
I just wish the Adventurer's League crowd wasn't such a gaggle of consoomers. I offered to run a One-Shot while the DM was on vacation the next week and got told "that edition is more of a niche thing."
Black person, it's D&D! It's all niche! We're all weirdo nerds here! You are not a fricking normie!
>You are not a fricking normie!
I have a couple of normie friends that do play DND. Mostly as a social activity together with their nerd friends, but still.
I think playing D&D 5e specifically is not an indicator of normiedom anymore.
Other TRPGs, for sure.
I'm a lucky frick for having met and befriended my 5e group and one of the dudes inviting me to a 3.5e table.
Shit man, 3.5e is really cool, really.
The DM also fricking loves that he can use every player option as is to customize or create wholly new enemies and creatures, since both PCs, enemy NPCs, monsters, whatever, all use the same rules.
It does help that these guys have been playing for nearly 20 years together, so these guys know exactly the kind of game they are playing, and the DM knows exactly what kinds of encounters to make to surprise and challenge the players as well as encounters to make us feel awesome.
Having my fight-y Cleric participate in a story telling contest and have both my creativity as a player as well as my character's mechanics was real neat.
Thank you for reading my blog.
D&D 3.5 is the worst edition, with the exception of every other edition of D&D that's out there. Those were worse.
only on the basis that everything else i like has been ruined far worse so D&D doesn't seem nearly as bad by comparison
feels bad to be a warhammergay
i think D&D's had it worse than warhammer personally but that's kinda splitting hairs
DnD and all other RPGs are protected by them not being centrally controlled beyond the printing of new books.
Even with new books, it's not like the game design can show up at your house or club to stop you from doing things how you want.
no shot, WOTC at least pretends to like the baying hogs that make up their consumer base. GW has been flipping their consumers the bird for like 15 years now
D&D is more inclusive than ever. They made a niche hobby into a worldwide phenomenon.
>/tg/ will hate this fact
Why would I want more people interested in the things I am interested in, ever?
Why do you want toilet paper when you take a shit? it's a rhetorical question because you're full of shit.
The more people that are interested in the same thing I am, the more likely I'm going to run into idiots because there are simply more chances to run into idiots. I will enjoy what I like in private.
I will tell people about what I like unprovoked.
no one is forcing you to interact with other d&d players anon
He is forced to interact with other D&D players because he keeps getting kicked from tables for being insufferable, even among archetypes of insufferableness like "my sexuality is my identity" RPers and weeaboos
I'm pretty sure AD&D already ran around the world twice over by the time WotC got involved.
I don't even dislike 3.x but no, the player-centric content model coupled with the OGL have been a disaster for the whole hobby from which it will never recover. Even during the 90s ttrpg crisis there was more diversity in adopted games, past 2004 and everything flipped, you have to be lucky to find a group that isn't playing some iteration of d&d or !d&d exclusively, the hobby is essentially dead in this regard.
>the hobby is essentially dead in this regard.
It's because D&D is the better system than 95% of alternate games. autists will claim it's 'mediocre', not understanding that not being particularly complex OR simple is a good thing.
Look at all the fricking garbage tumblr-tier powered by the apocalypse shit and the absolute collapse of anything else in the space.
There's a reason the #1 is DnD and the #2 is Pathfinder.
>There's a reason the #1 is DnD and the #2 is Pathfinder.
Marketing.
>Muh console war bullshit
No you homosexual, i was talking about game diversity that the ogl seriously impaired having smaller editors using the d20 system to clout chase the biggest company. Design philosophy or even quality has nothing to do with it and if you think that pbta/fitd crap are somewhat representative of that lost diversity you're even a massive Black person mongoloid on top of being a poofta.
D&D's problems are older than the bullshit WotC introduced. Saying they "ruined" D&D implies it was ever good in the first place. It's always been a thoroughly mediocre RPG.
Lore is worse. System is objectively better, for any version of WotC D&D. The solution is run the old TSR lore with the system you like.
I think it comes down to what you enjoy about the games' designs.
TSR D&D was better for a gear based fantasy crawl
But WotC makes you feel like you're street level heroes becoming bigger heroes through all of the random abilities and bigger numbers, a bit like Diablo or some shit.
Why are you blaming WotC and 3.5e? Most of that crap was already in AD&D 2e.
Yes, but they still need to earn forgiveness for ruining MTG.
Take the fricking Pick Up Sword feat if you want to pick up swords, it's not fricking hard.
If you want to talk to goblins just tell the DM you want to use a talk action. If it's not a free talk action available to all classes you may need to have the appropriate feat such as Haggle or Intimidate.
i asked the DM to swap my breathing feat with the talking to goblins feat (because realistically i don't need both at the same time) and then my character fricking died
>get natty 20 on random breathing check
>i inhale all the air in the room
>the rest of the party dies
This is an obvious criticism of Track, and I don't think it's valid. There are more valid ones, like Preform (Oratory) and Diplomacy being essentially the same thing. You could even argue Bluff is Diplomacy. Spot vs Search, etc.
>Have you forgiven WOTC for ruining D&D?
No, and never will.
I won't be happy until WotC and Hasbro go down in flames.
>natty 20 natty 20 that means i hit them so hard they explode
WotC hasn't had a natural 20 mean anything other than what it did for any TSR edition. People thinking that natural 20 = superhuman success aren't thinking that because of anything WotC did.
I am almost certain natural 20s were not in 0e, 1e, or any iteration of BX.
Cursory google search says it started with 2e AD&D, as an Optional Rule.
>No matter what number a character needs to hit, a roll of 20 is always considered a hit and a roll of 1 is always a miss, unless the DM rules otherwise. Under most circumstances, a natural 20 hits and a natural 1 misses, regardless of any modifiers applied to the die roll.
>Thus, even if a character's chance to hit a monster is 23 and the character has a -3 penalty applied to the die roll, he might be able to score a hit—but only if the die roll is a 20 before any modifiers are applied. Likewise, a character able to hit a monster on a 3 or better, waving a sword +4, could still miss if a 1 is rolled on the die.
That sounds about like how it works in any of the WotC editions. I think 3e allowed it for saves and 4th let you do double damage.
Confirms once again that the Big Divide started when Gygax left TSR, not when WotC bought the rights.
Well, that's Natural 20s as an official rule, it was used as a houserule in tables across the country as far back as 1975, though the only evidence I can offer for that is the fact Gygax felt the need to write an article on the subject (actually, about House Rules in general and people dishing on D&D's system) in Dragon Magazine #16, some three years later. I will point out, in the same article he also goes after the concept of "weapon expertise", and Spell Points.
>in the same article he also goes after the concept of "weapon expertise", and Spell Points
Based.
Not to mention 2econtradicted many of Gary's points by welcoming snowflake characters (Drizzt), guns (pic rel), and mechanical creatures (modrons weren't mechanical at all).
>WotC hasn't had a natural 20 mean anything other than what it did for any TSR edition.
Wrong. There's no "natural 20", let alone critical hits, in:
- OD&D
- Holmes
- Gygax's AD&D
- Moldvay/Cook's B/X
To this day, people think the rules have loopholes. They do not, you're just a fricking butthole.
WotC turned D&D into a card game in book form, where people are supposed to have special rules interactions and the system itself is meant to be a referee that supersedes the authority of the DM... Even though the text explicitly states otherwise. The writing style of it all encourages exploiting the rules.
OSR's been fricked for years in ways you clearly haven't even noticed. They tried the ol' "Atheism+" tactic of starting their own OSR with SWORD DREAM and when that flopped, they all crawled back to the OSR corpse they had already hollowed out and pretended it was always theirs to ruin.
You're making too much correlation. There's a difference between the general oldschool crowd that leaned liberal after, you know, the christcucks tried to destroy tabletop at the tail end of the satanic panic, and the leftists that tried to pull off Sword Dream which flopped because the former could tell they were just palette swaps of their christcuck menace.
It is certainly true they fell victim briefly to bad faith actors insisting if they just pandered a bit to diversity the diverse would feel more welcome, but they're also the ones getting hardline and pushing out the wokester content uncompromisingly, while amusingly the christcucks now trying to graft themselves to the hobby (to steal your line, "pretended it was always theirs") are slipping into last decade's leftism and doing more to preserve the enemy or at least shut down attempts to shut them down.
Reminder that after the OGL fiasco the trash are flooding out into the rest of the tabletop field.
OSRs are already browning and girlbossing their art. Rules will follow shortly.
Most OSR systems suck and there is so many interesting applications of using rope
GLOG is cool tho, I dig it
The (mostly late) 3.5 still mogs most ttrpgs when it comes to interesting class design and subsistems. Binders, Incarnum classes, Fiend of Possession, so on
>still seething about 3e a quarter of a century later
It's time to move on.
If you want to keep playing AD&D you can just do that, you aren't the only one.
>Proverbs 14:9 Fools make fun of guilt, but the godly acknowledge it and seek reconciliation.
>1. Psalm 51:3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
>Genesis 50:17-18 ‘Say to Joseph, “Please forgive the transgression of your brothers and their sin, because they did evil to you.” And now, please forgive the transgression of the servants of the God of your father.”
All old testament btw.
I really like the Big Picture of 3.5, but it's certainly rough around the edges. The big issue, as I see it, is that the spell system and the feat system work completely differently. 4e's approach of "make everything powers" isn't the fix I want. I like how The Tomes does it, where combat feats scale by base attack bonus and there are no prerequisite trees. That way, maybe fighters can also grow quadratically.
So, this is an obvious bait thread, but I think it is worthwhile to make sure you know that saying it's no different than it was in any TSR edition is factually incorrect, and that most people who play OSR games dislike AD&D 2e, which was created in part to cut Gary Gygax out of royalties. There are also a number of amateurish mistakes in the core 2e books (the reaction chart is backwards, meaning higher levels of charisma bonus actually make NPCs and monsters more likely to want to attack you, ffs), and a lot of missing subsystems, advice, and other material cut from the DMG.
Personally, I started on 2e, so I have a certain nostalgia for it, but it is very far from being the same games are AD&D 1e, let alone the various versions of Basic or the LBB set.
I fricked up my grammar there.
>but it is very far from being the same games are AD&D 1e, let alone the various versions of Basic or the LBB set.
should read
>but it is very far from being the game as AD&D 1e, let alone various versions of Basic and the LBB set.
Also note that I am not this guy
>AD&D 2e, which was created in part to cut Gary Gygax out of royalties.
Please stop these calumnious lies. AD&D 2nd edition was Gary's idea. Planning started in 1984 when Gary had just returned and was making things his way again. He asked Frank Mentzer to write it, mostly alone, to make a consistent game, with input by Gary and maybe two others but Frank in charge. Frank could even edit Gary's writing when Gary was, to put it mildly, very precious about his own writing. Frank's sets were consistent, not "writing by committee" which is where rules have gone nowadays, including the 2nd edition that was actually published.
Before the fricktards come along and say Frank ruined Basic and especially the Expert set, he wrote BECMI by himself with Gary's approval because Gary trusted him. It became the biggest selling RPG product to date. Popular doesn't necessarily equal good but opinions that "B/X is the only true edition" are not the gold standard either. If you like B/X that's great. I'm only dismissive of the fricktards who think it's god's final and supreme gift to role playing games.
When Gary was kicked out of TSR, Frank left too so instead of being a tidying up 2e was a revamp. TSR went ahead with AD&D 2 because AD&D 1 was a mess--thanks largely to Gary. AD&D 2 might have become a mess later on but that's beside the point, the point is why it was written in the first place.
No one has to put Gary on a pedestal and say he was hard done by missing out on 2nd ed royalties, if indeed he did. He apparently had missed out others as he wasn't a great businessman and didn't take his royalties from TSR when he was there. Gary fought tooth and nail with Dave to cut down Dave's royalties but Dave fought back. Dave eventually earned royalties from MMII even though he had left before it was written. There's no doubt that AD&D 2nd, an obvious rewriting of AD&D, even more than MMII compared to MM, would earned Gary royalties if he had needed to challenge.
I am the guy who made this and its hilarious it still gets reposted post covid
Yes.
But I haven't forgiven them for making people think that D&D is the only TTRPG in existence.
The proliferation of the "5e is a newbie-friendly system!" meme is one of the most evil fricking things perpetrated against the TTRPG hobby.
the minimum knowledge needed to know how to play 5e is "declare a thing, DM tells you whether it's possible. If it is, roll a d20", everything else is strictly 'QOL' in that it speeds up gameplay
That extends to every fricking RPG, minus the d20 part, you gormless subhuman.
imagine thinking this proves your point and not mine
>5e is easy to learn because someone else can just play the game for you!
In what way does this make 5e any more newbie friendly than any other RPG in existence? Which proves the point that it's just a meme and not built on any of 5e's inherent qualities or design decisions. It's just a thing morons like you keep saying and thinking is a meaningful statement when what you're describing isn't newbie friendly. It's handholding, and it's led to countless 5e players who can't run the game themselves and barely know any rules after years of playing.
I wish there existed a half decent fantasy campaign RPG written with expectation that 2/3 of the players and DM are morons with no TTRPG experience whatsoever.
But there doesn't, and 5e is the closest thing to the system that doesn't break when you look the wrong way at it.
The second surest way to make your system playerbase nonexistent is to cater primarily to hardcore RPG fans. Just below trying to cater to social justice obsessed lefties.
WotC didn't touch D&D, it made DND, very different beast. If anyone is ruining D&D it's the people who play it wrong, i.e. too different to the way I play, but they're only ruining it for themselves. D&D is just fine where I am thanks.
you will be using the dog wheelchair bigot
They've made a character class called "dog wheelchair bigot"? I'm not surprised, it's become even worse than I thought.
u sound mad
I haven't forgiven whoever made Wojacks a thing.
It was a Krautchan user named Wojak. Which sounds Polish.
I can't believe anything anybody online b***hes about anymore.
If you don't like a thing, don't engage with it.
I find it very hard to believe a curmudgeon like OP and others that hold similar opinions are actually having to put up with the nonces they b***h about when such attitudes would clearly and easily point to others that this is not a person worth engaging with.
>bitches online about people b***hing about things online
>can't believe his own b***hing
I shouldn't have engaged with this post.
Touché. I'm still learning.
>If you don't like a thing, don't engage with it.
That doesn't fix anything though? And ceding ground to people ruining your hobby is not a good idea. See the video games industry as prime example.
>That doesn't fix anything though? And ceding ground to people ruining your hobby is not a good idea. See the video games industry as prime example.
Damn, can't believe video games are ruined. I guess I can't play Helldivers today.
People compared 4E to WoW but 3.5 had people calling their characters "builds".
The OGL also ruined gaming in the 00's. You'd go to a game store and see wildly antithematic 3E conversions for everything from Call of Cthulhu to 7th Sea.
It was also the beginning of the DnD only homosexuals. In the 90's there was a sense you'd eventually move on to other games. If you were competitive and didn't like the social element of DnD you jumped over to Magic cards. When you went off to college you were probably playing Vampire and Shadowrun(or at least a smarter DnD setting like Birthright or Planescape).
I’m convinced that 3.5 is only so popular because you can easily search for all the pdfs on google and have all the rules for free in seconds. In highschool we would play because the rules were free. Had lots of fun and fond memories of dnd with the boys. We played 5e but by that time everyone had basically stopped giving a frick about rpgs.
The economy sucked a little less and people still had disposable income, also. Half the people in my gaming group during the height of 3.5 worked in book stores so we were getting them for cheaper anyways.
>know spell
>can’t use scroll that’s the same spell because class restriction
>be any class
>hands and head explode when picking up a forbidden weapon
>be “good” alignment
>indiscriminately genocide thousands because that’s what good guys do
>want to equip armor
>no
>want to wear robe
>no
Too many needless limitations and rules lawyering.
What? 3e/3.5 gave more liberty than ever.
>hands and head explode when picking up a forbidden weapon
-4 to hit, actually, unless your religion forbids
>be “good” alignment
>indiscriminately genocide thousands because that’s what good guys do
Sounds like a you problem.
>want to equip armor
Spell failure %, armor check penalty
>3e/3.5 gave more liberty than ever.
You can't even make a Fighter in it who is good at a non-crafting profession skill. Or who can hear well.
>Or who can hear well.
They couldn't even pick "Detect Noise" in 2e, at least. High Listen checks should probable be reserved for extraordinary situations, like someone using Move Silently.
That image is fricking dogshit and explains nothing about how 3.pf ruined DnD. It was the level of nonsensical combos combined with ridiculous math that made the game a shit show. Just stacking assloads of damage into feats and features until you had players dealing 350 damage a round, enough to actually chop through a tree trunk in six seconds, then making the game an autohit fest, and homosexuals who think that's actually a good thing because their kids cannot escape the martial caster dichotomy. They don't realize that all those abilities should be shut down. 5e has the same issue with mega damage. Fights like last 2 rounds. Which is better than 3.pf where it's like one round due to either save or die bullshit or else oneshotting monsters with power attack or kineiticist blast or a buffed animal companions full attack. It's just ridiculous. How does anyone find that immersive or fun? DnD 3.5 can be fun if you aren't redpilled on it yet but once it happens it's over.
You know what you need to do.
Yeah but I played 4e for a year and a half and it was even worse in terms of freakshit.
Only good thing was AC ascending with level.
It's actually gotten pretty funny in the Pathfinder game I'm in. Our group has ballooned out to seven players, and the power of the monsters has escalated dramatically to compensate. Our group only has one full caster and no Cleric/Oracle, so the fights have become an insanely brutal game of rocket tag where all but the tankiest PCs can be two shot. It's a miracle nobody has died yet.
>how is fast, lethal combat immersive
I wonder.
Funny thing
3E was pretty much made by the old staff of TSR when they were folded into WoTC.
That’s why 3E is full of weird exceptions for classes, niche feats and they playtested it like AD&D.
WoTC started their Christmas layoffs later and by the time we have 3.5E, the new team is there to tweak the system around the meta the original designers never thought of, like how Save vs Suck is easier when you get to pick your spells and get more of them.
It's also why 3e's Fighter is SUPREMELY broken with options allowing them to spit out frick tons of damage.
I wonder if it was the advent of the online forums or just adding so many more choosable parts which shifted 3E towards 3.5E’s meta.
The tragedy is that all the bad things that happened in WotC D&D happened because the people buying the books actively wanted them.
You cannot convince me all the fricking non-rules in 5e are not because WotC was terrified of grognards getting mad at them for telling new DMs what to do.
>You decide when a random encounter happens, or you roll. Consider checking for a random encounter once every hour, once every 4 to 8 hours, or once during the day and once during a long rest-whatever makes the most sense based on how active the area is.
"It could be this way, or it could be that way. It's up to you, the DM, to decide! The power is yours! No, I won't give you any advice on which you should pick!" Reading 5e's DMG hits you with this over and over again, and it's absolutely just to evade complaints. No magic item costs are the same deal, remove all the rules so the DM can do whatever he wants, who cares if it makes DMing a nigh-impossible job for a new player.
>RPG's start with DM/GM's just making shit up on the fly
>Most DM/GM's are idiots
>WotC introduces a clear ruleset that fleshes things out more for brainlets and helps provide structure, spreading DnD like wildfire
>2024: THIS IS THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED
you're not talking about 5e having clear rulesets are you
>WotC introduces a clear ruleset that fleshes things out more for brainlets and helps provide structure, spreading DnD like wildfire
Previous editions of D&D had modules and campaign books also. They didn't have tumblr and twitch streamers promoting the game, though, which despite 5e's total lack of meaningful content promoted the game to brainlets by telling them "you don't need to learn the game. Just run Curse of Strahd by reading straight from the book"
Why would I forgive them? Ruining D&D is one of the best things that WOTC ever did.
D&D players are insufferable, and I'm glad they are suffering.
>Check out the DnD groups around me
>All boot licking ex-military douchebag weirdo nerds with 0 social skills
>STOMP MY FLAG ILL STOMP YOUR ASS!
>Check out the other groups
>Normal/Average to nerdy people
>Just want to have fun, make friends, play games
I learned quick DnD is for shitters.
nobody normal likes your "anarchist" ass
It was already ruined with AD&D