He is 100% right that he should have been left to die. The emperor should have known a primach that damaged by dark tech needed to be put down.
He is 100% right that he should have been left to die.
He is 100% right that he should have been left to die. The emperor should have known a primach that damaged by dark tech needed to be put down.
It is implied that making a primarch is something more unique than rare so the reluctance of bigE to let one of his most prized creations dying without any practical use is understable
But that sort of calculated sociopathic thinking is why Angron is a giant angry demon trying to kick over the emperor's every last sandcastle.
Congratulations, you figured out why the horus heresy happened at all
Are we so fricking deep in BL bullshit that we can't even remember the fundamental bits of the lore any more? The Emperor couldn't even make himself evaporate Horus until the latter proved himself beyond any hope whatsoever by gleefully frying a pair of blood angels right in front of daddy. Gee I wonder why such a guy didn't euthanize a primarch before the heresy had even started.
its always been fundamental lore that Angron knew he was broken, currupted by dark technology and unsalvageable and should have died with his men and that the emperor kept him as a tool anyway telegraphing the inevitable betrayal.
Eh, Index Astartes era fluff (I.E. the stuff that really started to define the Legions in detail) has the split with the Emperor be more about martial pride and honor than the damage done by the Nails. Angron hates the Emperor because he forced him to abandon his comrades, living or dying was immaterial to him compared to keeping his promise.
He did. Twice.
Some homosexual youtuber recently made a video on the missing primarchs and the guy from GW that first created them said something very interesting in the comment section:
In his mind, they were supposed to be forgotten and wiped out not as punishment but as forgiveness, so , unlike the unforgiven traitor legions, they fricked up somehow but were redeemed, and as reward all memory of them was erased.
My reading of that statement was that, since falling to chaos generally has an element of volition, the 2nd and 11th were corrupted through no failing of their own. Therefore while the traitor primarchs are vilified the lost primarchs had their shame erased and their sons folded into the Ultras.
Yeah and now you know the lore reason behind the lost legions beyond just being vehicles for self-insertion by autistic neets who play tabletop games. The homosexual emperor sacrificed those two in his in-the-closet deal with the primordial soup entities in the homosexual chaos rift. Frick the emperor. All my homies HATE the emperor.
>My sons, I absolve you. Be at peace, and know that your sins are wiped clean.
>hey malcador u wanna pimp ur chair out lmao
>we can't even remember the fundamental bits of the lore any more?
>frying a pair of blood angels
Tell us more about how we dont know fundamental bits of lore
Prior to the cancer that is nu40k, it was always implied that the tragedy was that the Emperor loved his sons. You fricking mongoloids are beyond redemption.
HH was a mistake
BL should pay for what they did
I'd say HH in its current form was a mistake. Original shorter run, which you can see from breakneck pace earlier novels have, would've probably had less room to frick things up in detail.
With how things are now, I can't see how the finale won't be a huge mess.
The flanderisation of the Legions also gets to me... I once in Deathwatch rpg game played a Raven Guard who was the sniper support bro, however the resident That Guy kept bleating that it was wrong I wasn't doing a Lightning Clawed melee guy and kept IC and OOC calling my guy a coward for being like that.
Like RG never used stealth tactics or Seeker/Recon squads and instead just ran at the enemy with twin LCs like insane WEs.
Yeah. I think a 10-ish novel series (which is HUGE by most standards) would have been more than sufficient. If they wanted to be really obsessive, 20ish novels (one heavily featuring each legion, plus two about the grand finale) would have been excessive, but guaranteed everyone in the fanbase got to see their favorites. Sixty One novels at 400+ pages a pop is crazy for describing what is ultimately a single conflict. But I guess the fans just loved that marine vs marine, EPIC REVEAL, CRAZY TWISTS action, so here we are.
To be fair, it's a galaxy wide conflict that occurs over a period of a decade. I imagine that without the Perpetuals you could trim some fat, but the Horus Heresy is almost a setting unto itself. It's fertile ground for exploring things that are much harder or impossible to in 40k due to the passage of time and Imperial decay. For example, the Unification Wars have little to no relevance in 40k.
More books have been written about Napoleon than days since he has died.The length of a book series is not the problem for a galaxy spanning civil war, merely the quality of writing from the writers involved.
Don’t worry it’s GW, in 10 years they’ll bin it and start again
except he had no problem erasing two of them, homosexual
stop rationalising garbage writing
And he had every right to turn on The Emperor. The Emperor from the very first meeting revealed that he missed the point and wasn't worthy of being followed and used Angron just like the slavers did.
By leaving the rebels fighting for their freedom to die and brushing them off as just another group of people fighting against tyranny, pointless in the grander scale, The Emperor revealed to Angron in a microcosm that The Emperor had lost touch with humanity if he ever had it and his vision for humanity wasn't worth following.
Out of all the betrayals Angrons is 100% justified, telegraphed and honestly probably in the right. Angron would have even been a better leader of the empire. Him or Sangy.
This but also Mortarion.
Mortarion and Angron being left alive is canon proof that Big E is an idiot.
>This but also Mortarion.
Nah, Mortarion has an actual asinine reason for hating the Emperor. Angron I at least understand because he left his mates to die where there was a chance, but Mortarion is mad because... Emperor saved his life when he was 100% guaranteed to die because he had already failed?
I'm pretty sure Morty was glad to just die and he couldn't even have that.
It's his hatred of weakness and being as such himself.
He was the weaker one to lose, though being saved and having to live with someone else saved him from someone who is stronger than him weighed on him. Emps essentially immasculated him and likely in his mind the only way to stop his self-hatred for his weakness then is to prove to himself he has grown stronger than Emps and take him down to even the score.
Not justifying the thought process, though that is essentially why he hated Emps.
Not saying it's not asinine but it was very much predictable.
Even regular people get like that and Primarchs have basically the whole Eldar thing of stronger everything (including emotions) going on.
He also found out about the golden throne which added fuel to his hatred towards the emps which made him think that empy was a hypocrite for using psyker tech while also hunting down and killing psykers or something along those lines.
He also hated the Emperor for showing up on Barbarus and stealing the spotlight from him.
The Emperor's betrayal of Angron goes back to at least the World Eaters Index Astartes article, you can't blame the Horus Heresy books for everything. The 40k fanbase has become love the game it loves and/or hates. The people who have been around for a while have forgotten what was written and the people who are new have no desire to learn.
I'm not seeing how that person's view of the Raven Guard is the fault of the Horus Heresy rather than the old Shrike model and perhaps GW's tendency to show off Raven Guard in art dual wielding lighting claws. Probably the whole bird allusion.
Morty had daddy issues from his necro adoptive father, he also hated tyrants and wanted humans to be free, but with an end justifices the means philosophy.
Good luck, Morty is tough as nails even if he's broken in both mind and body
>Good luck, Morty is tough as nails even if he's broken in both mind and body
Big E would've found a way. Can't be so tough if he never freed himself.
He's immortal now as a daemon, lol just respawning
...follow the fricking conversation.
The point being discussed here is that Angron and Mortarion were both broken failures that Mr. I DO WHAT I MUST I AM SO EDGY MUH SACRIFICES FOR THE GREATER GOOD I HAVE NO ATTACHMENTS I MUST KILL should've just put down like roadkill when he found them.
No they did great work killing xenos and mutts during the great crusade, killing them after would make more sense. Why destroy a broken blade that can still cut
Because that broken blade was breaking all the other blades he was in charge of and eventually started murdering the wrong people?
Dont move the goal post, I didnt speak of Horus
Stupid homosexual. Angron was in charge of the world eaters and started maiming and killing them.
Angron was broken failure, but not Mortarion he had conqured the majority of Barbarus expect the last stronghold of his necromander daddy.
This is the setting where a 1 in 1000 success rate for transhuman elevation is considered decent.
> Angron would have even been a better leader of the empire.
Without the Nails, sure.
With them though, he'd have died around 007-008, let alone the brain damage and enforced behavioural & social difficulties inflicted upon him.
I mean, there's 20 of these buttholes. Every time he finds one he needs to make a big song and dance about it? "Ooooh my lost son, now that we have been reunited, I am truly whole again, blah blah blah." Screw that, get on the shuttle frick-o, no one cares about your dumb gladiator bullshit.
It's like a kid who wants to tell you ALL ABOUT his Minecraft game. It just doesn't matter AT ALL. You can take it once or twice, but after a dozen or so times, shut the frick up and put your fricking shoes on.
I mean, you pay for it in therapists eventually. Or: you don't!
His dumb gladiator bullshit was what made him human. E not acknowledging that basically made him no better than a Man of Iron.
What is the fricking point of fighting for humanity if by the time you're done humans are no longer human?
Just make android slaves and be done with it.
I mean, marines, and primarchs are literally just tools to big E, I don't think that's subtle at all
It wasn't just that he didn't care. It was that everyone Angron had ever formed a bond with, loved, cared about, was left to die because the Emperor was too lazy to order a Lance strike or two that would probably have earned him Angron's loyalty and respect.
I honestly don't think he'd have forced the Butcher Nails on his men if he hadn't lost his slave rebel friends.
>Him or Sangy
had he not had the nails beaten into his skull, I agree. You get snippets of the person he could've been in some of the novels, and he seemed to be someone who valued brotherhood dearly. With the nails in him, though, he was not much of a leader overall.
>The Emperor can see the future
>He obviously knew the heresy would happen and that he would be put on the golden throne
>He needed this to happen so that he could become a god from absorbing the worship of the whole Imperium
>He knew all the primarch's natures as they are just aspects of himself
>He had pledged certain primarchs to the chaos gods as part of his pact with them
>By doing this he was only using the chaos gods to further his own ends in the long run, the fear of them would strengthen his worship
>He had to choose which would stay loyal and which would turn. Lorgar would never have turned without brutalising and humiliating him, Angron would have been the most loyal if he had saved his army
This is the only possible explanation
>monster rehab
ayo
>AnGRONK
>He obviously knew the heresy would happen and that he would be put on the golden throne
He didn't tho. Interpreting visions of the future is tricky as frick. Eldar Farseers get fricked on regular basis, Horus had seen a grim future as well - and he had realized it's true and lie at the same time immediately.
In fact, many W40k stories revolve around simple cycle:
1. A sees B
2. A does C to prevent B.
3. C causes B
happened quite a few times.
So it's entirely possible that:
- Emprah seen daemon prince Angron and thought that leaving him to die on gladiator planet will turn him into one
- Emprah seen Lorgar going Chaos mode but thought that preventing Lorgar from building huge-ass temples will change that
etc.
you get the idea
Angron was by far the worst primarch and couldn't even subdue his own planet
it was really just shitty circumstances he found himself in. also, dark age of technology stuff.
I think further proof that Angron is in the right is Kharn is probably the sanest of the champions of chaos in 40k and almost likeable if it wasn't for his killyness
In all honesty, the World Eaters were dragged down by Angron and when the latter fricked off to the feral world for 2 years, Kharn was not just silly enough to go find Angron and get him back (after Angron had been demanding his Apothecarian put Nails in his Legionnaires that killed all they did it to, plus Angron was decimating the Legion for not making planets comply within 31 hours) though when Surlak told Kharn he figured out how to implant the Nails non-fatally, Kharn volunteered for that shit as the first one to undergo it.
Kharn was pretty likeable, though he was hardly sane.
The Prince of Blood short story is so fricking depressing. Even after being transformed into a Daemon, he’s once again trapped in the bowls of the ship, perhaps even less lucid than he was before and making everyone’s lives even worse than they were before.
The World Eaters mutilated themselves to be more like him and gain his acceptance and even after all that, their debasement to try and please a “father” who didn’t want them, he’s turned into something even further away from something they can relate to. I read Kharn installing his kill counter as a surrender to nihilism, that the only thing that could now matter to Angron was how many deaths he caused.
Angron’s my favourite Primarch and I think it would have been better for literally everyone if the Emperor had left him to die in the mountains.
And its not like Angron is at fault for any of it, he has chunks of he brain cut out and replaced with dark magic technology that is slowly re-writing his neurostructure. He literally is slowly being lobotomized into a barely sentient thing that's only biological drive is to kill.
He needed to be put down.
>The World Eaters mutilated themselves
Angron novel has him order the mutilating actually, they didn’t want to.
Then when it was finalised to not insta-kill them, Kharn volunteered to go first.
I’ve often wondered how things would have turned out if the Emperor had teleported all of Angron’s soldiers up to his ship, or intervened and covered it up as a mutual massacre. Angron would still be fricked from the Nails, but would he still side with Horus? Would he demand the legion replicate the Nails, or would he be content that his real family was still with him?
With Nu-fluff he was probably damned to break from the nails no matter what, it might have been different with a more supportive emperor but his brain is mush. The old fluff who knows
Oh yeah, he’s doomed to have his brain annihilated either way, I just wonder if the other gladiators had been saved it wouldn’t have led to the WE getting pulled down with him.
>Oh yeah, he’s doomed to have his brain annihilated either way, I just wonder if the other gladiators had been saved it wouldn’t have led to the WE getting pulled down with him.
Probably, the Butchers nails were probably resentment and the intentional destroying of the emperors tools
The whole Idea was dumb, lets give lobotomized butthole who hates my guts a massive army and leave him unattended.
Angron didn’t want to be saved. Dying beside his fellow slaves is just a convenient excuse. It was suicide by cop.
It's been over ten years and we still have multiple threads a day about the primarchs being written incoherently.
Because The Emperor was acutely aware that a Primarch rebellion was going to happen likely led by Hours on account of being Warmaster, and so intentionally distanced himself from the more unstable ones so that when they time came Horus would be left with a bunch of mentality unstable frickers to run his war.
Horus himself said so in I think it was slaves to Darkness the Perterrabo was the only one actually putting in the work and that most of his success was because of the momentum for Istvan and the chaos gods bending the warp to aid him in logistics.
Angron was little more than an unstable weapon that could win a fight but not lead to the standards you needed to win the Heresy
I think Big E just didn't know which Primarchs would turn traitors. For example, I always thought Khan was on his shitlist so he didn't get much love and ended up being an outsider.
That's because the Laughing God Swapped Fulgrim and Kahn's homeworlds during transit and in some supernatural sense changed fate to swap their sides in the Heresy.
Also he didn't trust Guillman because of his personal empire building inclinations which did technically come true with the imperium secundus.
But your right he was never truly sure on who would rebel but he manipulated things to create likely outcomes.
Really he set it up almost perfectly and the thing that fricked him over was magnus breaking the webway if not for that causing a two front war by risking Terra the Heresy would have been over much quicker.
Guilliman and Khan were both predicted to turn traitor.
Robutian Heresy is an amusing idea.
He wouldn't have failed tho
I also like how with Girlyman it's less of an almost supernatural I AM THE ALPHA PREDATOR nature the way Lion does it, but rather much more understandable fact that blue boy simply had a normal life that fleshed him out into a sensible person. He has things to live for and strive for enough that he realistically has a close to zero chance of falling to Chaos.
Just goes to show how much proper upbringing can achieve
it helps that he wasn't a huge emperor dickrider as well. He looked more towards what big E represented than the actual man himself. Which is what holds dorn back from being just as good imo since he went full mental breakdown after the heresy
Girlyman could easily fall to Chaos by preying on his self-image as the sensible one. He already had a mini-empire running smoothly, so it'd only be logical he should run the Imperium as whole.
Girlyman is just an inferior Horus, change my mind
I don't think so. Horus didn't exactly have a mirror Primarch of his own. For Guilliman it was Lorgar.
Wouldn't that be Lion? I mean, if he wasn't Autist Supreme.
I think Lion is Emps foil, he is basically his mini-me
>Lorgar
Nah, it’s Pert. Both are raised in a Rome-Greek civilization. Both are good with numbers and logistics. Both have some anger issues.The difference is that Guilliman is not an autist
I thought Horus’s mirror primarch is Sang?
No Horus wasn't a psyker mutt
>Sang is a Nurglite
No its fricking moronic.
>Horus himself said so in I think it was slaves to Darkness the Perterrabo was the only one actually putting in the work and that most of his success was because of the momentum for Istvan and the chaos gods bending the warp to aid him in logistics.
it's both comical and tragic that petulant perturabo of all the traitor primarchs ended up being the workhorse for the heresy. just goes to show how wasted he was.
By that same notion it's not hard to imagine that had Horus been successful Perty would have wound up resenting him and the other Primarchs because he's a miserable, autistic c**t who can't be happy because he's too busy making himself miserable.
Exactly. Perturabo can't let go of his martyr complex. He would rather hold onto a grudge than be happy. (And I think that is realistic. There are actual people like that.)
Very probable. Then again, Horus might have actually recognized his talents and made a big deal about it. Essentially, getting Perturable that universal recognition he wanted. Parading Dorn's head on a pike would've also helped.
Probably would have chilled him out for a while at least. And if the vision Alpharius/Omegon received was accurate Horus was going to wipe out humanity pretty soon after he won. So it probably would have kept him on side at least through that.
>"Hey Pert, you wanna kill everyone."
>"Yes. Yes I do."
Perty's issue mainly stems from he doesn't feel he gets the respect he deserves and isn't listened to.
However he also has no qualms to silently take thankless soul-crushing jobs (most of his work on the Crusade was this and whilst he feels unthanked for it, he still did it without question) and doesn't open up to people (perhaps due to that he does have an ego and feels too above others to do so) so they even could listen to him and his thoughts and feelings.
The point of his Martyr Complex in Hammer of Olympia is a fair one to claim given what we know of him, though also I don't think he's intentionally that vindictive - he clearly does have an inferioty complex and he certainly does have a temper and mood-swings, though I don't think he purposefully uses the former as an excuse to lash out with the latter - he shows regret over things he's done and honour to others a few times in the novels. Though him losing control when he lashes out is his big issue, which adds to his suffering due to regrets piling up and becomes this horrible cycle he is stuck in. Having Dorn around as the prized son and having (in Perterabo's POV) little to no issues rankles him most and with his temper added in, his lashing out is more over that than full vindictiveness, imo.
Something I noticed that gets overlooked is that Dorn and Perty have the same basic character flaws. A Perturabo without his massive personal issues is basically Dorn, so a lot of Perty's antipathy towards Dorn can be interpreted as displaced self-loathing.
Dorn has a temper, yes - see how he reacted to Garro accusing Horus turning after Istvaan III happened.
I don't think Dorn has an inferioity or martyr complex, though he can be self-deprecating & for one supposedly as stoic as he (wherein like Perterabo he is introverted and very subdued in normal socialising), he does get shaken a few times - he is afraid of why Horus turned, as he's scared the answer will make sense to him.
I do agree with you, I think it gets to Pert that Dorn gets all the praise whilst he is treated like the red-haired step-child.
Really, things landed up as they did mainly as Dorn was the noted siege defense bro, whilst Pert was the attrition siege attacker. If their roles were reversed, they could have been on opposite sides of the Heresy.
What really adds fuel to the fire is a combo of Pert's ego and Dorn's brutal honesty in saying infront of Pert that Dorn's fortress work would outlast against Pert sieging them. Dorn didn't really need to say that and he's usually quiet, so perhaps Dorn has a little ego too himself.
Dorn also got to style gold.
Or how utterly screwed Horus got with his pick of primarchs. When Perturabo is the functional one of the bunch you know you f*cked up somewhere along the road.
To be fair Horus didn't exactly have premium primarchs, they were doing mostly whatever the frick they wanted and its a miracle Horus was able to tard wrangle them to Terra, what with Angron being barely able to form a coherent thought, Mortarion being bitter little shit, Magnus and Fulgrim doing whatever the frick they wanted and Kurze being a literal schizo only ones who would follow his orders were Perty and Lorgar, and Lorgar was for the most part away annoying Girlyman
Lorgar was more interested in spreading the good word and supplanting Horus as "chosen of Chaos" more than actually going along with any plans. Which was a shame because Word Bearers were top class unto themselves.
the whole lorgar-horus thing made no sense and came off as them scrambling to come up with a reason for the heresy to fail
>oh snit we made these guys too cool, now what
>uhhhhhhhh they frick everything up for literally no reason lol idk
which is the BL modus operandi for the entire excuse for a storyline, but still
Part of that is Chaos amplifying all their worst traits, before and after they officially fell. You could just as easiliy have had Roboute nagging constantly that Horus isn't Black Crusading correctly and slowing the advance, Dorn going all in on BDSM excess, Jaghtai doing whatever it is Alpharius contributed but with bikes, Ferrus being obedient but also cutting away absolutely everything organic in pursuit of Getting Huge (could even reverse Angron it, with the ordinary Legionaries persuading him to go all in on the cybernetics), and so on. Vulkan would probably be one of the "competent, but nothing special" equivalents.
Emperor and Malcador having to defend with psychos, second stringers and malcontents who hate each other would also be very funny. Especially if Erebus is still an evil little shit, but roundly ignored this go-around.
Man that would be a complete mess, now both sides are forced to tard wrangle to make a coherent front
That is so much better
Don't bad mouth Mortarion, he was at Horus side on places like Molech or following Horus orders, you clearly haven't read much lore about the heresy.
was it ever confirmed what was the real deal with morty and nurgle? was it truly a bad to "save" his legion, did he sell out for power, was it set up by horus to get morty in with chaos, etc?
Warhawk did a cringingly hamfisted recontextualization of The Buried Dagger that seems to suggest that Mortarion more or less intentionally allowed his legion to get corrupted so they'd have a chance to be dominant in the warp-realspace fusion that was going to happen if Horus won.
which is absolute bullshit and totally out of character
Not really, he dabbed with sorcery after Prospero, the best way to beat the warp is to use the warp. It makes his a hypocrite yes, but it's set up in the BL lore.
Mortarion basically became his adoptive necro father after taking the nurgle pill, even remaking Barbarus 2,0 as a plague planet in the warp
It seemed like an odd retcon but sort of made sense with Mortarions journey to becoming a warp monster himself. He took one finger in warp magic and then went full moron.
Actually, Perturabo was annoying Roboute, Lorgar was the one who tried to betray him and Mortarion was the only reliable one.
>Magnus
>Fulgrim
>Aren’t premium primarchs
Common now
In all honesty that anon just repeated what was said in an earlier post and just added edge to it.
See here
before the Heresy they were top tier, but their fall to chaos (especially in their case tricked into it) pretty much made them deadweights for most of the war since they became more focuse on excess in Fulgrims case, or discovering shit for Magnus, sure they did do the occasional shit especially with Fulgrim killing Ferus and taking part in the massacre, but overall by the time of the siege they contributed little
what's wrong with Perturabo?
Follow the reply chain and he is discussed at length, anon.
Pertuabo was so moronic that he outright knew Fulgrim was going to betray him and still followed him the Angel Exterminatus trap. He wasn't a workhorse, he was an easy dupe, and deserve no praise for being so comically easy to manipulate.
I'm surprised everyone hadn't already realized Fulgrim was thoroughly fricked in the head by that point.
horus himself said he ended up being a master of monsters, and he didn't manage to get a single primarch he actually wanted on his side
Mortarion and Perturabo were the only reliable traitor primarchs Horus had, the others were busy with their own schemes and ends.
Mortarion also put work in and would generally always be there to follow Horus' orders - however Horus' issue was all the deranged ones went to his side; mainly in Angron & Curze, though he also was stuck with Fulgrim the melodramatic primadonna, Lorgar had his own agenda and Alpharius/Omegon could not be relied on either.
Magnus was never intended, as Horus wanted to kill him off via death by Russ & he only joined up at the Siege.
>be some backwater world in Ultramar
>somehow have dark age tech that not even the Emperor and the greatest minds in the Imperium could figure out how to extract from a primarch
>so potent that it never apparently crossed his mind to recall the big red one to attempt to pull op pysker frickery along with Big M and Big E on angron while the nails are digged out
>or shove his sons soul ass in a soul stone and clone a new physical body
They really should have thought out the HH more
It's what happens when your plot outline is written 30 years before your story.
Magnus likely couldn't have done much, Angron's cortex was mulched and parts straight up missing.
It is also heavily implied that Primarchs are unique and whilst there are examples of clones (Ferrus, later post-Heresy there is Horus himself), you have to question that as Emps had the Primarch dna when they got jettisoned originally across 20 different planets to make the first Legionnaire Astartes, why didn't he clone them with the dna he clearly had?
The HH novels present the Primarchs are heavily implied to have been able to have been made due to Warp shenanigans atop of genetech, so this also implies a clone would be somehow lesser than the actual Primarch in some manner or Emps would have done it himself before.
Also Malcador could have had Ferrus cloned and returned to the Hands after his death if it was a thing they could have done - or hell, how about the two Lost & Damned unnamed Primarchs?
Why not all the Loyalist Primarchs as they fell and went awol post-Heresy?
Weren't there Horus clones running around after the Heresy and Abaddon hunted them all down because they were not really primarch powered.
The unique part of the Primarch's was in their souls. Their bodies ought to have been replicable with some effort.
Fair.
Then you have to question if they could have sleeved his removed soul into a clone body then.
Yeah Eldar have spirit stones as mentioned, though I don't think the Eldar would want to share waystones given they are what stops Slaanesh munching on their souls when dead.
Makes you wonder how fricked the two lost primarchs must have been if Angron wasn't considered a lost cause.
while I agree I think it's really funny that Angron is the angry guy who can only really feel angry and serves the angry god
the biggest "were you even trying" of all time
Mr Iron Hands, who has iron hands and leads the iron hands is a damn close second though
MY PRIMARCHS NAME IS FERRUS MANUS.
THAT MEANS IRON HAND.
FERRUS MANUS HAS IRON HANDS.
FERRUS MANUS' LEGION IS CALLED THE IRON HANDS.
THEY ALL HAVE IRON HANDS.
The emperor knew. He also knew he needed violent psychos to conquer the galaxy. He also knew he needed some of the primarchs and legions to rebel so he could have most of them thunder warrior each other when he was done with them.
In the late 90’s when GW expanded on chapter/primarch lore it started out okay, but by the end they had run out of ideas “never more” “this was me was sneaky” ect
A competent writer could of fixed it, but GW skimped and hired absolute shit so BL only made the problems worse
Better to ignore all lore/fluff outside 2nd Ed and make up your own
Angron is just the fricking worst. Any other Primark that landed on Nuceria would have escaped or gained a position of power long before they reached the age at which Angron had the nails put into his head. He accomplished nothing and was literally going to be killed by nobodies on a backwater planet before the Emperor saved him and then, then he gets retcon plot wanked to be the bestest invinciblest fighter in ever because of the tard rage somehow makes you a good fighter trope. He couldn't beat a shitty nobody militia but is somehow a real threat? And before he gets demon powers Frick off GW. Literally the only good thing about Angron is when he gets owned by basic b***h strategies like Perty just shooting him from a distance.
>Perty just shooting him from a distance.
Sauce? That's hilarious
BL book SLaves to Darkness
As good as the system is because it's old 40k, HH should have stayed a mystery and a myth. All the primarchs are fricking gay.
best take
HH books sell the best
Primarch minis sell the best
cope troony
So does fricking McDonald’s and Kpop what’s your point
>emperor could've fought with him
>could've fought with him and his entire legion behind them
>didn't
Angron had his uses, he would be used a demolition tool, that's why the Emperor kept him around. Eventually he would be phased out when degeneration became fatal, his geneseed would remain, the world eaters would eventually be remade without the practice of self lobomization.
>betrayal
The Emperor didn't had on account of a empire wide rebellion fueled by god level alien inteligences that would raise Angron to the status of daemon prince. Without HH, his final frenzy would be just another legion suppression at most.
Speaking of Angron...
That's a big daemon primarch...
Not really.
Somebody doesn’t skip wing day.
So he's about the same size as Mortarion. Magnus is a huge chonk, but he's supposed to be, because he's Magnus. If anything, Angron standing up straight would be taller than Manletarion with his feet on the ground.
The frick? Magnus is huge.
For you
How big are those nu-Cadians?
Why didn't he just jump into a star if he wanted to die so fricking badly?
...yeah.
Seriously, even in a Khorne free multiverse the guy would be a fricking time bomb.
Horus Heresy was stupid from the beginning because they made it recognizably warhammer, which makes the entire 10k year timespan after that feel nonsensical if basically nothing changed.
Might just be me, but I feel like at least the first five books portray things somewhat differently.
The Heresy should have been more like the age of strife - IE the whole galaxy is being shredded and will never be recoverable. The BL have made it feel like a lads road trip to Terra.
A million traitor marines still doesn't feel like a huge, galaxy threatening force because the scales have been all over the place. Even the Black Books, which I personally love, were having this issue the further they got along the timeline.
How many fricking 40k threads do we need? Are the 3 fricking generals not enough?
Are you seriously telling me The Emperor could not figure out how to get the nails out of Angron?
dark age of technology stuff, apparently. also he COULD have done it, but it would've killed angron.
So what if he did? Resurrection is pretty easy for psychic beings on his level.
Name one time the emperor ever resurrected anyone
Angron’s brain was 20% nails by volume. He grew up thinking with the nails, as in, using the nails to think. Not only would removing them have killed him, the Angron that was was essentially the child of the Angron that could have been and the nails.
Any clone made without the nails wouldn’t have been Angron, the soul would have rejected it if it can even be transferred that way.
He could get them out, but he couldn't do it without killing him, he explicitly admitted this. Magnus thought he himself could "get them out" and wondered why the Emperor didn't if he could, but Magnus didn't realise that it wasn't the getting out that was the issue.
If he hated living so much, why didn't he just kill himself? Or refuse to work for the Emperor and get killed as a result? I don't really have much sympathy for him when he says how much he hates tyrants then goes off and works for one for seemingly no reason.
A lot of content with Angron seemingly has him death seeking actually.
Also he didn't willingly go with Emps, Emps forcefully took him away from his Bolivian Ending on Nuceria. Angron was not happy and starting killing in the hopes some big bastard would step up and put him out of his misery - except Angron was a Primarch.
No idea why he didn't just an hero himself, mind. I'd guess it's not as honourable as going down fighting.
Some have the head-canon the reason why he went dirtside on Istvaan III to kill his own dudes was to give them a proper warrior's death rather than just getting fumigated.
>He is 100% right that he should have been left to die
Here's what big E should've done, alright? He warps himself right into the thick of the fighting, side by side with Angron and his friends, bringing the Warhounds and the Custodes with him. Combined, Angron and the Emperor's forces turn the tide, and big E makes the planet burn for what they did to Angron, and eventually puts him in charge. His Legion, who fought side by side with him, would've been far more readily accepted by Angron, as well as the Emperor. Even then he can still fall to Chaos later, as Emps tries and fails to find a way to remove or dampen the effects of the Butcher's Nails, leading Angron to get more and more insane over time, and eventually he thinks the Emperor isn't even trying, and is just using his suffering for his own gain.
Also, burning an entire planet all for the sake of a primarch sounds grimdark and metal as frick.
Trips of truth.
Though also we can't have that as a main theme of the HH is that it's a tragedy, so stupid frickups that could have been avoided need to happen so there's a plot for the tragedy.
Emps helping Angron would be hated. Angron didn't want help. He didn't want to be saved. He didn't want a Legion. He wanted to die beside his fellow rebels. All that saving him would do is create another Mortarion, raging that the Emperor solved his problem for him when he couldn't.
He literally had a shitfit he was never helped.
"You kept that mule Kor Phaeron. Russ kept his kin-friends. The Lion kept Luther. Humans - brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker. Angron the Betrayer."
he makes a valid point. emperor inexcusably went full moron with angron. or was he that terrified his world had more dark age tech?
Yes, because he is angry at the Emperor for not letting him die with them. If he'd been helped he also would have been angry. Angron was trying to die from when he rebelled, when the Emperor saved him, and all through the Crusade, up until Lorgar daemoned him and then he could never die no matter how much he tried.
He's an example where no option is a good answer, and nothing would have fixed it. He should have been put down or put on ice.
>angron always wanted to die
Him fricking off not long after joining the crusade in order to go out and get killed by something until Kharn found him
>angron wanted to die after his gladiator friends died and he was teleported by the emporer so that means he always wanted to die
Are you pretending to be a moron or are you just that fricking stupid?
You know, it’s kinda weird that Khorne is the strongest chaos god instead of the blue bird. He got the strongest traitor primarch, the strongest greater demon servant, and he strongest traitor legion…
>it’s kinda weird that Khorne is the strongest chaos god
Not really. I mean, the game's tagline is literally "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war".
Depends how you define 'strength'. Tabletop, sure. But then the god of blood and war should really kick arse in a wargame (and similarly, the god of refusing to die is a solid #2).
Tzeentch - along with Slaanesh - is more of a ... civilised god, or perhaps more appropriately more ego than id. A long term, insidious danger to a society rather than the barbarian horde at the gates, hence why classic WFRP scenarios tended to use Tzeentchian or Slaaneshi cults.
So what do Nurgle cults do then? Being neckbeards?
It's pure opinion but the way I see the gods is:
Khorne - first out of the gate, "nature red in tooth and claw", simple mindless aggression, eat or be eaten
Nurgle - next up, a vague awareness of self and ending, conscious of the idea of death? I dunno, I admit it's woolly but I feel that he and Khorne are 'basic' emotions, iyswim?
Tzeentch - awareness of changing the environmy, making plans
Slaanesh - recognising desires not solely related to survival and indulging.
You could see it as an evolution of sentience/sapience, or even of a civilisation, but it's how I rationalise it. S & T may not be as brutal to face on the battlefield, but you get back home to find that they've taken home away from you.
As for specifically Nurgle cults, you may be on to something with neckbeards and, well, the stereotype of this place when it's got a moan going. The first Nurgle story in LatD was ultimately all about a GUO being bored, pissed off that nearby halflings were having a perfectly happy time and deciding to introduce them to the joys of Depression. Contrary c**ts choosing to bring everyone down rather than improve themselves. And for what it's worth, I completely recognise myself there at times.
Interesting, thanks anon.
Better to take a genetic sample then toss Angron into Stasis until plans are complete. Grow a CloBlackn for the meantime.
The man at already lost two sons by then. Would you be able to tell him to just give up a third?
I'd tell him not to openly antagonize the deranged lunatic and then put him in charge of a gigantic army with no oversight