So my friends are saying that Ishmael is not real. It is all part of Moby Dick hallucinations experienced by Venom. "Ishmael" and "Ahab" are both protagonists of moby dick, a story about revenge. Everything that Ishmael did was actually done by Ahab. BiBo was never in the hospital.
For me, Ishmael is absolutely real, he was BiBo and yes, BiBo was at the hospital. In fact he had been at the hospital for a long time, watching over Venom.
Who is in the right here?
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Cringe
Gay child
>Facts do not exi-BANG BANG BANG!
>HELP ME IVE BEEN SHOT (statement of fact)
You weren't shot, there's no camera around.
You can't prove you exist. Therefore, it's an interpretation of an event that may or may not be reality.
Dubito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum.
He threw the shit at Quiet.
He literally says
>We gave her a light, she took the short way down
He starts with I and corrects himself to We, because Venom did it.
>He starts with I and corrects himself to We, because Venom did it.
He changes to we because they both are Big Boss.
>He starts with I and corrects himself to We
Why would a hallucination misspeak and correct itself
????? Do you think hallucinations are infallible or what? What the frick is this post, have you ever had a dream anon
They say that all of Ishmael's actions were real but were actually done by Ahab. Like in Fight Club.
The only reason I won't call that moronic is because that is indeed Moby Dick's plot, and the parallels between both stories are undeniable.
>that is indeed Moby Dick's plot,
You've never read moby dick.
lol no.
The only real similarity between Moby Dick Ishmael and BB Ishmael is that they kick off the story then sort of fade into the background. In the book Ishmael spends a few chapters talking about getting used to life on a boat after leaving his job as a teacher, then after that you don’t really hear from him anymore til the end besides a weird interlude where he talks about kneading whale sperm with the boys to keep it from congealing. I guess you could call Moby Dick and MGS both vaguely homoerotic.
... you really don't see the similarity? Literally read your own post and think of how big boss relates to the story of mgsv
>Game literally spells out that you're right at the end
>Your friends, somewhy, thinks it's all one big elaborate reference to Moby Dick and Ishmael is schizophrenic and possibly just a character in Big Boss' head
Never heard of a more moronic headcannon, maybe there's a FNAF one from 2017 that ties up tho
Is it so insane that the story is a moby dick reference? If the fact that Ishmael and Ahab are the names of the protagonists of moby dick, how about the literal WHALE that Mantis summons?
you are wrong
doctor house?????!!!!
captcha xr4 msg almost
Get out of there Isaac, that's not your game!
>literally has Medics GZ face
>but covered in bandages so Venom doesn't lose his mind
>Mantis does the same thing in MGS1
>Those statues were modeled after Mantis' real face. Mantis despises the sight of his own face. If he suddenly sees his own disfigured face staring at him, it might break his concentration.
Looks like the Medic from Ground Zeroes.
>dies
>comes back out of nowhere to save Venom
That guy isn't Ishmael, it's just a random patient with the same facewraps.
We've all played the hospital mission 1000 times, after the first run everyone is looking for Ishmael in that scene and everyone notices the fake-and-swap.
The design docs specifically use Ishmael's model twice in the hallway, have the one in front clearly and obviously gunned down and then the body disappeared instantly. You might have an argument for it just being another patient who looked like Ishmael if it wasn't literally the same model, and if they didn't make the corpse disappear.
That makes no sense because if Ishmael was real then Venom didn't do anything. And why would he risk revealing that Venom is his body double? It actually makes no sense for Big Boss to be anywhere near Venom.
When it zooms in on his butt crack someone say “Oh my lord!” and I always chuckle.
That's the real Big Boss. Ocelot saves him from the wreck before Venom wakes up, gives hims a fake ID, and throws him on a motorcycle. Next, Ocelot self-hypnotizes himself, then saves Venom. Somehow, Venom doesn't regain consciousness while this is going on, nor does he die from blood loss.
It's moronic, convoluted, and unnecessary. Another day in a war without end.
MGSV never happened it was just Venom's dying fever dream
There is an epilouge confirming all of this. Why did you make this thread?
The point of MGSV's story is that it can be taken either way. You can take it at its face value and that all that doppelganger Diamond Dogs shit actually happened, or you can view it as a schizo fever dream where Big Boss creates "Venom Snake" in his head to absolve himself of guilt, while the "real" Big Boss gets to drive off into the sunrise. It's impossible to know either way because Venom Snake is an unreliable narrator and makes up shit like Paz being alive completely, tapes and everything
>There are no facts, only interpreations.
Open World Storytelling.
La Creativdad
the problem is this is extremely boring and I just don't care
another adhd zoomer filtered by real creatividad kino
>creatividad kino
Typo prvoves you are wrong and Kojima is a hack
Exactly, being vague and doing the it's all in your head or maybe not is the absolute bottom of the barrel story telling. It's why it's the story in every barging bin direct to dvd trash that no one watches, because it was played out and uninteresting 30 years ago.
guilt of what?
The truth will be revealed when we return to Camp Omega.
How are you still alive?
Was that post crash scene in the game? I don't remember it...
>not the original tripcode
nice try
There is no mystery in MGS V, everything happens at face value. A medic is turned into Big Boss by Zero, Big Boss and Ocelot use Venom Snake to make Big Boss leave the hospital and not been chased by Cipher, the Medic discovers that he is Big Boss' double until the end of the game, end of story.
There's no ruse, there's no conspiracy, Kojima made a game worse than the original trilogy and (debatable) worse than MGS4.
Mgs4 will always be the worst. Kojima lost the plot after 3, and while V’s story is total shit he at least does the courtesy of not forcing you to give a shit and instead lets you have fun playing the game.
>(debatable) worse than MGS4
Absolutely not, MGS4 is genuinely terrible.
MGSV is narratively frustrating/underwhelming and occasionally monotonous. Which isn't good. But nothing can outdo every MGS4 cutscene being 40 minutes of exposition dumps and unneeded callbacks to "wrap up the plot" by making it way worse, with levels that are all fricking hallways.
Only thing that MGS4 has over V is memorable bossfights, which were gimmicks but still a fun time.
MGS4 is also pretty much the sole reason people to this day keep running the joke about Kojima making movies, rather than games, into the ground.
found the mgs thread, take my sad story:
>wage away all day on bday
>come home and waste some time on the pc
>play a few side ops on mgsv
>motherfricker, another fricking motherbase cutscene
>HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOSS
nice
Actually this thread was your surprise party
Happy birthday anon
tanks friendos
also got to see Christmas eva figurines (and many others) in real life on this day
(SORRY I had to take bad sneaky pic)
>mikuru and tessa
fine taste fren
There were ALOT in this house. Not like melonpan levels but still it was awesome. Some way cooler ones but I could only really sneak one photo so I went for eva.
Were you breaking and entering or something?
Happy birthday anon
>huey is in the birthday cutscene
heh
I still turn on mgsV for my birthday.
happy birthday anon
I booted up MGSV just for this cutscene on my birthday this year.
Happy belated BIRTHDAY
SOVL, happy bday anon
>yes bro everything that you see is totally real
>nevermind that the protag is a brain damaged schizo that hallucinates
Why discuss a game without finishing it? it's clearly kojimbo "clever" way of explaining why solid kill big boss twice, and maybe also make mgs4 ending less mind numbingly incoherent.
aww i thought this was a Sanitarium thread
See
what am I supposed to see?
The post I quoted.
what does that have to do with sanitarium?
Oh, I see, you're new. Damn, I wish I was as new as you. Once you amass as much knowledge as me, well, let's just say things can become quite disheartening.
holy shit, that Ganker pass icon really is a badge for schizophrenia
Black person there's an entire cutscene that blatantly shows Ishmael leaving Venom and being set up with a bike to flee courtesy of Ocelot. It even shows how Big Boss doesn't have shrapnel in his head.l like the brainwashed body double Venom.
You need to be fricking blind and moronic to reject what is very famously the canon ending proving Big Boss was Ishmael and fled while you made a lot of noise with Diamond Dogs.
Your friend is clinically moronic and you really should not spend any more time with them. He's gunna get you killed being this non-functional.
>Trusting a cutscene with fricking OCELOT in it Freudianly dangling everything Venom and the player wishes they had right in front of them
Durr hurr I bet you think you're really fricking smart don't you?
Funniest thing is that the mission is literally called the TRUTH
In a game where everyone lies to you and you cannot even trust yourself.
>truth mission
>it's not the truth
many such cases
Look, if none of that shit actually happened how do any of the events of MG1/2 take place
It happened but Big Boss being there was Venom's hallucination, that's all
Snake thought Big Boss was dead but he in fact was not and came back later. This didn’t need a whole fricking game to explain, nor the sissy hypno body double.
The question that literally no one asked. “The first two metal gear games were from the era when no one gave a shit about story, and a resurrecting villain is a trope in all sorts of other media” was more than good enough
They had decent stories, especially MG2.
MG1 is pretty simplistic with pretty arbitrary puzzle encounters, forced alerts and the silly per-room codec system - but they still keep calling back to it.
>being set up with a bike to flee courtesy of Ocelot
Which is a stupid fricking ending. Ocelot didn't give him a helmet to hide his face, and the bike isn't gonna do jack shit to help him get off Cyprus anyway.
Also Ocelot straight up time travels, if you look at the timing of when he helps Venom to escape and board the ship, and when he meets up with Big Boss.
that's just bad writing, not the creativedad's genius
For context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Man_factor
mgsv is too schizokino for its own good
No, the tsuchinoko was in 3
They placed a lot of faith in that random medic's ability to be Big Boss.
He did a pretty damn good job of it, too. Raised a lot of cash and a private army, did a fricktonne of perfect stealth ops, makes Boss seem like a bit of a b***h for camping out in some deadend hospital for a decade.
No but you see, medic has S++ stats in everything. Like every other soldier in your team by endgame.
it's 2014 again?
>Nuclear trailer comes out
>People immediately figure out you’re not playing as Big Boss
>but they get put in the same schizo category as “Quiet is Chico, “I am a woman so I cannot rape, I am quiet so I cannot betray my friends””
>game launches and it turns out they were right all along
>the massive meltdown threads
That was a fun launch week
>anything weird happens in MGS2
>errrm you see it's a simulation
>anything weird happens in MGSV
>it's all real just forget that Venom is a schizo
MGO3 was part of the story and was the real Big Boss running around battlefields doing his thing.
MGO3 should've added the real Big Boss as another playable character with infinite ammo Patriot.
Ganker users aren't your friends.
Doesn't Ishmael have two working eyes?
no beard either
He's also using the Medic model under the bandages.
>BiBo
have a nice day
say BB like a normal person you zoomer abortion
>Early on, Ishmael injects Snake with dioxin which many fans noted to have appeared out of thin air. The drug dioxin is also not even effective in Big Boss's situation (being that it merely increases the heart rate). The drug has seemingly no effect on Snake, giving further evidence that it was not there at all and that Big Boss imagined the whole scenario in order to give himself a boost of confidence.
7 years of med school and he can't even give himself the right imaginary treatment. On top of missing the bomb in Paz's vag, medic was always kind of a shitty medic, way better at being Big Boss, arguably more than Big Boss himself.
>he missed a second GIANT fricking Bomb in her vegana which any brain dead medic would be able to tell is in there just by looking at them
Medic should’ve never been allowed to join Outer Heaven
Wtf does it mean
bibo died on that helicopter 9 years ago
can someone please post the meme of the mgsv schizo caramel but its the scene in true detective where rust is in the storage unit
>can hallucinate tapes
check
>can hallucinate dead people
check
>can hallucinate a room that doesn't exist
check
>can hallucinate his appearance change
check
>can hallucinate Kaz and Ocelot
check
but hallucinating some guy with bandages is too far
>108 pieces of shrapnel
>In Japan, at the end of the year, a bell is chimed 108 times in Buddhist temples to finish the old year and welcome the new one. Each ring represents one of 108 earthly temptations (Bonnō) a person must overcome to achieve nirvana.
I kneel
>creates the Buddhism-type philosophy just for a video game
le creative dad.....
Ishmael was real but he wasn't Big Boss. He was just some dude, he gets out of dodge and you never see him again
Actually both Ishmael is real but is not Big Boss, he's another patient made to think he's Big Boss.
That doesn't even make sense
sure looks like those fire ants played you like a damn fiddle.
I can't believe Kojima snuck a snuke up Paz's snizz.
>Start a new save a few days before my birthday
>Play up to Backup, Back down
>Haven't extracted Huey yet
>Birthday rolls around
>Head back to Mother Base
>Huey's at the party
If BB isn't really there with Venom during the opening hospital scene then I think that would be included in the big reveal of the Truth prologue re-tread mission. No reason to miss out on making an even juicier Fight Club-esque twist.
>that would be included in the big reveal of the Truth
The truth isn't the truth, it makes no sense timeline wise. The truth shifts the times so that only 2 days passed between the surgery and Venom escaping
MGSV was a mistake
The true question is how could Ishmael even save Venom? Big Boss was in a coma all this time too. When Venom wakes up he can't fully stand up and do shit on his own because it's been too long, even with the massages on his muscles and shit. Did Big Boss wake up before Venom, or around the same time? He seemed strong and healthy enough to lead Venom to safety so that means he HAD to wake up earlier, then pose as the patient next to him to protect him during the assassination. How long was Big Boss waiting there until Venom was assassinated to save him? Days? Months? Just weird how that one part is never brought up.
>captcha - HAX20V
It was brought up actually, Boss woke up first
>It's a non-smoking ward
why do people call him autistic again
While the game play is fun, it becomes repetitive and with a moronic story, it’s difficult to stay invested.
game was too deep for the plebs
I came here to say sexo paz
I love schizo kino
Schino, if you will. Or maybe kizo
>This is not a Sanitarium thread
Gentlemen, roll back, this thread is a waste of breath
Actually anon the twist was that nothing in the intro was a hallucination. BiBo was just bandaged up, the big flaming Volgin thing was just Volgin's actual corpse, that was puppetted by baby Mantis because the corpse had Volgin's lingering anger towards BiBo for killing him.
Also the giant flaming whale was never some red herring to a Moby Dick analogy, it was an actual giant flaming whale that Mantis picked up out of the ocean and threw at the helicopter.
See Kojima is too smart for some sort of metaphorical hallucinatory trip for an intro.
Anon it was Venom who controlled Mantis and summoned the whale because he was brainwashed with Moby Dick references. This is literally mentioned in a tape. Venom controls Mantis at several points in the game. This further reinforces that Ishmael is just another machination from Venom's mind.
Did your friend actually beat the game? Did you? It tells you pretty flat out that Ishmael is BiBo.
you see Big Boss meet up with Ocelot right after the hospital incident. this isn't seen through the perspective of venom, so there is no reason to think it's some kind of illusion like the paz stuff
The problem is that this happens from the perspective of the player, and Venom IS (you), remember?
MGSV is a mess
Did Big Boss even change his face and if he did, did he just change it back? Can you do that perfectly and infinitely in the MGS universe? And if he did change it, how did he simply create his own army from nothing? He was walking around as a literallywho in Africa, how can you just build a nation like that, wtf is all this crap
Also the act of builng his own nation would draw the world's attention way before it gets anywhere
ambiguity is up there as a central theme of MGSV OP
prefacing the entire game is the quote 'there are no facts, only interpretations'
so the answer to your question, whether it was real or a hallucination, is yes
It's kind of lazy though. Just writing a story that doesn't add up but "on purpose" doesn't really make it better
The story does add up. It just sucks and feels like a half-assed attempt at putting plot points together in a period of the canon that's both crucial and shrouded in mystery only toppled by MGS4.
Almost like Kojima realized he sucked at writing but actually used this to show a fragmented and broken man's psyche scurrying to justify itself and all the awful shit he goes on to do. Which is so good I don't blame anyone for not buying it, but everything about V from the artificial atmosphere and heavyhanded references to the subtle constant fourth wall breaks at least points to it.
on one hand, yes you could consider the ambiguities (the fact there is room for multiple interpretations for most of the game's events) as objective plot holes. but considering that even when MGS4 painstakingly layed everything out and many people still didn't accept it, you can see why kojima explored that dissonance between the player's experience/expectations and his story. since MGS1 and 2 end by saying do you own thing, don't obsess over the details respectively but people went the other way and put the text on a pedestal instead of understanding that subtext. after he was demanded to explain everything objectively and people didn't accept it, he went the other way with it and got a bit of his own revenge against us in the end
on the other hand the way we can all see MGSV a little differently is unironically what makes games art in the first place. leaving enough clues and pieces that we can all form that legendary boss the whole saga has been referencing all along
frick, this was a reply to
not myself
MGS4 overdid it with the explanations because it ruined mysteries that didn't need explanations and he even did it again in V. Just let the Skulls be mysterious, I almost shat myself when they first hunted me because I didn't know what the frick they are. Leave hints maybe but don't just use nanomachines 0.5 to explain every little detail and fricking up The End in the process too
Skulls are not mysterious, they are parasites
Well yes that was the needless explanation that ruined the mystery
WOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The Moby Dick references aren't hallucinations and don't end at the hospital
Big Boss was not risking his life at the hospital, Venom passed the test
That would mean Kojima is capable of not spelling out and over explaining a plot device, which would have been a first (and last) for him.
kojimadrones really are the worst homosexuals on the board
what about anons who post on a thread without contributing to the topic?
i've never played mgs so is the entire story just some schizo shit or is there supernatural stuff goin on
>or is there supernatural stuff goin on
Nanomachines
There are supernatural elements in Metal Gear. Sometimes they're handwaved with some flimsy science-fiction plot device, sometimes they aren't.
straight up super powers, some retconned into either nanomachines or their analogue version of parasites. also the gameplay is better than any "flagship playstation game" of the last 20 years so play it dumb zoomie
This thread was fascinating to read as someone with 0 knowledge or experience with these games. I think I got more enjoyment out of reading all the posts here than I would actually playing the game.
It’s fun to let your imagination run wild sometimes.
Nice
Reminder:
>MGS1, MGS2, MGS3
>Writer: Tomokazu Fukushima
>MGS4, MGSPW, MGSV
>No Tomokazu Fukushima
It's really hard to say, because everything that we see happening in the game is "told" and seen through the eyes of an unreliable narrator.
the game bookends with "present day" at the mirror. sometimes there are guns there, sometimes medical supplies, sometimes sheets, sometimes an MSX computer. venom is hallucinating during this time by seeing different reflections in the mirror and the unusually fast passing of time.
meanwhile the rest of the game is in the "past", being recalled by memory after venom plays the tape labelled "from the man who sold the world". so the entire game, including the "truth" tapes, and especially the paz tapes, are all recalled from memory by a hallucinating man with brain damage. don't get me started on the tapes themselves, which we know exist in a state of reality and unreality. if paz tapes are not real, then what makes the truth tapes with zero or skull face any more real? skull face, quiet, ishmael, they all may or may not exist.
I personally like the interpretation that Venom was put through all of MGSV while under deep hypnosis as the "VR doesn't exist yet" method of VR training a doppleganger Big Boss. It's a neat idea (while almost definitely not meant to be the truth), but the game having an unreliable narrator makes a little bit of room for it to exist. It's definitely not a case of GENIUS KOJUMBO, but it does facilitate Venom having a more mysterious origin baked into the story.
I remember people talking about this.
The theory is that Big Boss with the bandages only really shows up once Ahab was outside, when he ran over Volgin with the Ambulance.
Its because when Ishmael was hit with a knife, Ahabs vision reacted as if he was the one hit. Not only that, when Ishmael was stabbed, he didnt bleed. Also, Quiet never noticed Ishmael despite there being no way for him to attack her without her noticing. It is also strange how despite being physically capable of CQC, Ishmael, assumed to be Big Boss, never did any, and instead fought Quiet by lunging at her and throwing random items. Its assumed that before Quiet was able to fire her gun, Psycho Mantis connected with Ahab and started attacking her with telekinesis. The connection with Psycho Mantis included hallucinating the image of Ishmael to be his guide.
The theory is further backed by how Ishmael had no impact on his environment. And if he did, it was when he acted together with Ahab. Ishmael also disappears and reappears with no logical reason as to how. There is also the moment where he was given Digoxin, a heart failure medication, to stimulate his body. There was nothing shown that indicated any heart problems on Ahab, only brain problems by the massive metal shard on his head.
All in all, there are small inconsistencies and possible proof that could mean that alot of what happened in the hospital was hallucinated. Even with such evidence, there isnt anything concrete that shows that theyre hallucinations.
Even if there isnt any concrete proof, the game itself shows that the hallucination theory could be valid. Ahab hallucinated the whole Paz scenario, including the audio recordings. Volgin was able to manifest a horse while Psycho Mantis was connected with him, and Ahab was able to manifest a whale while He and Volgin were simultaneously connected to Psycho Mantis. Manfesting a tutorial guide isnt something beyond his capabilities.
Did your friends not play the game? It’s blatantly spelled out in the final mission it was Big Boss