>Here's your pokémon's learnset, bro!
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>Here's your pokmon's learnset, bro!
>Here's your pokémon's learnset, bro!
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Slash was great in Gen 1
there's only 3 damaging bug moves in gen 1. what did you expect?
To make a Bug type learn a Bug type move
leech life, pinmissile and twin needle. don't like it? gtfo
>Not learning a STAB Bug move
Cringe
without looking it up, this is Scyther isn't it?
It says it in the pic sweetie
Bug type wasn't supposed to be a STAB type in Gen 1.
>NOOOOO WHY DOESN'T SCYTHER, A POKEMON WITHOUT SHARP SMALL POINTY PROJECTILES TO LEARN PIN MISSILE, ALSO NOT LEARN SHITTY ASS LEECH LIFE OR STEAL BEEDRILL'S SIGNATURE MOVE!?!?!?
Gamefreak literally shitting in your mouth
Says the shit slurper who happily devours nu-GameFreak's slop.
>N-no U r eatin shieet
Smartest genwunner
>That's why movesets suck
Except there's a fair share of chosen posterboys like Kadabra/Alakazam, lapras (literally given to you for free), dugtrio etc. It's not some deep game design choice, it's devs playing favourites.
>Oh, you chose sandshrew over diglett?
>Your taste sucks lol
>NOOOOOOOO WHY IS GOLEM BETTER THAN SLIME IN DQ5??? THIS IS SHIT GAME DESIGN!!!!!!!
>NOOOOOOO WHY CAN'T I CARRY JACK FROST TO THE FINAL BOSS!?!?!? THIS IS SHIT GAME DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>NOOOOOOO WHY CAN'T I CARRY JACK FROST TO THE FINAL BOSS
You can. Pass on null/drain/repel fire and some useful skills and you're all set
That only works in Persona re-releases or SMTs that have farmable stat boosters. Demons typically either don't level up at all or their experience curves make it eventually impossible for them to keep up with the enemies after a certain point.
Except that Sandslash is obviously outclassed by Dugtrio that can be found at basically the same time.
Or compare Lapras, which is handed to you at mid game, to Dewgong, which can only be found in an optional dungeon later on.
Or hell, compare Gravler to Onix, despite Gravler being available earlier.
TMs exist buddy, originally you weren't supposed to have unlimited resources for teambuilding, it was a more traditional JRPG where resource management actually matters.
You probably couldn't tell because you're an ADHD ZoomZoom.
>overlevels your starter
nice resource management
Ummm sorry but LITERALLY NO ONE ever overlevelled their starter zoom zoom
Yeah high risk, high reward. Giving all your resources to your starter. Eventually you run out of PP during the E4 and will have to train your shitmons or catch the legendary birds.
>Kantogays be like ayo this moveset is fire
It's almost like the Sandshrew line was meant to peak at evolving and be replaced later by a better Pokemon or something. Weird concept after you were introduced to it by Butterfree and Beedrill prior, right?
Why are you pretending that Pokemon is a hardcore RPG, instead of one that shills you sticking with your monsters to the end as much as us possible?
And that it isn't a franchise where 'mercenary' trainers are shamed?
They obviously intended for players to switch up their teams as the progressed. Hence why they introduce stronger mons like Tauros much later. The game is just easy enough that you can get away with never changing. Using your over levelled starter and nothing else is the easiest and most efficient way of playing, but that's definitely not what they intended.
>And that it isn't a franchise where 'mercenary' trainers are shamed?
That's not the same as changing your team over time. Even Ash did that plenty of times.
Yeah, it's a shame that there's no other ways of teaching your Pokemon moves...
>spending your one-per-save Earthquake TM on a shitmon like Sandslash
You are the one who wants to use Sandslash, moron.
Yes, for a brief little while until I find a better Pokemon to replace it.
Sandslash peaks the moment it evolves and doesn't improve without TMs, meanwhile you can find Dugtrio just a town later who not only has the exact same ideal moves as Sandslash, but ALSO learns Dig and Earthquake naturally.
Yes, its base attack is just a bit worse than Sandslash, but the speed stat (which compliments Slash into being "basically guaranteed crits" territory and allows you to outspeed a vast margin of the roster) is extremely worth it.
Yeah but Dugtrio looks like shit, so I'll keep Sandslash
Have fun with your three sausages
He got a coverage move, that's more than you can say for 90% of the original 151
>sword dance + slash
Dumbass
>sword dance + slash
that's a bad combination since slash has an increased critical hit ratio and criticals ignore any stat changes, even the positive ones
Zoomers do not understand game design
Gen 1 put a lot of emphasis on TMs being important. That's why movesets suck. It made the game more difficult. You can't have a game that hands you everything and also has any difficulty.
gen 1 is the third easiest games in the series behind gens 2 and 6
if the npcs had good movesets then we could get something like Stadium
You don't need more because the game is easy
If you do need more try buying some tms
Sandshrew/slash is actually a really good mon to use in-game precisely because it gets Slash at level 17, which is a guaranteed crit with Sandslash's speed. Plus you get it really early in Mt. Moon. Then you can Dig (same BP as Earthquake in gen 1) as soon as you reach Cerulean, then teach it Swords Dance/Rock Slide/Earthquake later if you feel like it. Slash at level 17 in gen 1 hard carries this mon.
This thread is pretty much
>The Bug type shouldn’t learn a Buh move because I’m too autistic to give a reason
sword dance + slash = win game
mmm, slash, my favorite
>genwunners realizing kanto was never good
No, it's that Kanto had a fundamentally different design philosophy from the rest of the franchise that was much more in line with proper JRPGs, exhibiting traits that were familiar for those who played Megami Tensei or Dragon Quest 5 prior.
Both of those games had their share of novelty monsters or shitters you were meant to replace once you found better options, with DQ5 and Pokemon in particular having overlap in the "those scarce few monsters that can be used effectively through the entire game" sense.
That's also why their movesets all suck ass, they're meant to encourage the use of TMs in that thinking sense of "do I use this now on a Pokemon I'm likely to replace, or endure until I find a much better Pokemon later in the game?" where both answers were valid because the game wasn't about sweaty competitive autists, it was a fricking JRPG campaign.
yeah but that mentality sucks ass for game design
If you're being serious I'll bite. It's not that it sucks for game design, but it sucks for Pokemon in particular. The mechanic treats Pokemon like equipment rather than partners, which goes against the game's own messaging. It works in SMT because demons are portrayed as fickle tools that will just as likely betray you as you would them. But Pokemon are meant to be companions, so abandoning them for being early game shitmons seems cruel.
>It works in SMT because demons are portrayed as fickle tools
Kek you literally ask demons for their consent in SMT games, compare that to shrinking mindwipe prison balls.
Pokemon ARE equipment, every single mechanic in the game tells you that other than a few ocassional "pokemon are frens" noc
But that's why its so bizarre. You converse with demons, but since the franchise's inceptions, even including the series it was inspired by, they're genuinely terrible schemers with a select few being worthy companions. Meanwhile Pokemon are these creatures that you have to forcefully capture through combat and make them fight for sport, but the themes are more about friendship and comradery.
This is why the tabletop roleplaying game Cute And Fuzzy Seizure Monsters exists.
I think it's more apparent in Pokemon because in stuff like SMT the Demons actually are in a way glorified equipment for your actual character/party. Part of what made Pokemon so novel at the time was that the monster were your actual party members. You didn't equip pikachu to your trainer so you could use thunderbolt or give yourself resist flying, you sent out Pikachu himself with his own HP and stats and everything. This made it way harder for people to treat their team as interchangeable/disposable pieces of equipment like in SMT.
I implore that zoomers go and actually play rby.
You're approaching moveset design after years of power-creep conditioned your expectations.
I was like this, I had the exact same questions, but when I actually played it I found that in the actual environment of gen 1 MOST learnsets make sense in terms of balance for the single-player.
Are there problems? Yes, multiple moves just actively serve no purpose or are bugged out of their purpose, but it's rare for that to ruin a 'mon. Hell, I think Scyther is the best example of a 'mon that gets hurt by bugged moves, but even it gets to be useful in practice.
>Hyper Beam
>strong due to a bug
Out of everything in gen I, Hyper Beam not recharging upon knock out was almost certainly not a bug. Just a move they nerfed in following gens. If it was then it would have been fixed in Stadium like the actually bugged moves.
>MOST learnsets make sense in terms of balance for the single-player.
i don't think this is a good defense when plenty of pokemon more common and obtainable earlier than Scyther get better movepools than Wing Attack and Normal type moves
>Double Team
kek, you can buy the TM at Celadon. learning this move via level up is hardly a niche
>Mimic
every pokemon learns this in gen 1, how does this make Scyther exceptional?
>Agility
a frick ton of pokemon learn it via level up
>Hyper Beam
pretty much any fully evolved mon learns it so how does this make Scyther exceptional? Scyther is not the only pokemon in the game with a good physical attack stat so there are plenty of better alternatives that are easier to obtain. Gyarados, Aerodactyl and Snorlax in particular all get it via level up and they are also all static encounters unlike Scyther. getting the Hyper Beam TM is a fricking hassle in gen 1
even from a single player standpoint, Scyther is shit and not very nicheful
>and Normal type moves
Normal is the best type in gen 1
Ghost is extremely uncommon, rock has really common weaknesses, nothing else resists it. Having a high attack stat and strong neutral-damage moves is great in gen 1. Scyther is a perfectly valid option for this and has the niche of effectively ignoring defense boosting moves.
>kek, you can buy the TM at Celadon. learning this move via level up is hardly a niche
It's still convenient to not have to spend money on that.
>every pokemon learns this in gen 1, how does this make Scyther exceptional?
It doesn't, I pointed it out mostly because I assume most people don't know how mimic behaves in gen 1.
>a frick ton of pokemon learn it via level up
Really? I thought it was decently uncommon. Guess not. Still helps it though.
>[hyper beam] how does this make Scyther exceptional?
I never tried to claim Scyther was exceptional. I was just against the idea that it's useless. If you like scyther, you can make it work.
Not every pokemon needs to be the very best at what it does, you can just have a cool bug that's obtained through unique mechanics and works reasonably well. It'd be nice if there were something Scyther were amazing at, which is why it's cool they made Scizor in the sequel.
>It doesn't
>I never tried to claim Scyther was exceptional
alright then, my apologies for misinterpreting the arguments
>It's still convenient to not have to spend money on that
i suppose, but the TM is still pretty cheap
>Really? I thought it was decently uncommon
Beedrill, Pidgeot, Fearow, Raichu, Arcanine, Rpaidash, Farfecth'd, Dodrio, Hitmonchan, Seadra, Seaking, Jolteon, Porygon, Aerodactyl, the legendary bird trio and Dragonite also get it
>Not every pokemon needs to be the very best at what it does
i'm not going to speak against this idea but Scyther in particular does not live up to a pokemon that has a 4% encounter rate in a zone where you are forced to catch pokemon at full health. Chansey and Tauros are slightly more rare and are obtainable in the same zone but they actual feel like they live up to 1% encounter rates. idk if the Gastly family is fair to compare to Scyther but seeing how Gastly and its evolutions are the only Normal immune pokemon in the game while also having access to some good Special Attacks, you would think they would be much harder to obtain than something that can only attack with Normal moves and Wing Attack. being one of the fastes Slash users in the game is indeed a good thing in gen 1 but i don't think that warrants a 4% encounter rate in the safari zone
Yeah I pretty much agree with that.
Surprised you never brought up the pokemon that does Scyther's bit objectively better and is available way earlier:
i was tempted to say that but last time i checked persian only has 70 Attack so even if it gets STAB it might not always that hard
Scyther is exclusive to Red and Persian is exclusive to Blue btw
I forgot about that, pretty funny detail.
Yeah if you multiply that 70 attack by 1.5 for STAB you get 105 which is very slightly lower than scyther's 110.
Looking into this more there are some reasons someone might prefer Scyther over Persian, like ground immunity and swords dance. They're not actually that far apart in speed or damage (when you factor in STAB).
It's you who cut of his dick and shoves charizard shaped dildos into his wound
Just FRICK already, I can smell the repressed sexual tension from here.
>It's you who bought SwoShie and ScaVio day one, fat ugly homosexual hehe
>NOOO STOP PROJECTING I'M NOT A FILTHY troony WHO SHOVES CHARIZARD IN HIS AXE WOUND
Whatever you say, filthy troony whi shoves charizard in his axe wound
Damn that’s bad, I wish the game gave me something like items that I can use to teach my mons better moves
too bad they are single use TMs so inevitable some of your 6 mons will need to use shitty moves because you used the good ones on someone else
Not if you have a diverse team
>Gen 1
Mistake
>gen 1
>agility
>sword dance
absolutely broken beyond belief
>dies in one turn
what now?
>yeah bro the phys/spec split was such a mistake
I look like that and say that.
So many pokemon are literally useless before physical special split and its so sad. Always frustrates me when returning to gen1-3.
metal claw might be the most unsatisfying move in the entire game
to be fair Sneasel gets Shadow Ball which is pretty much the same thing as using a Dark type move. It's only the Ice STAB that's a big loss
it's also worth noting that despite being a dark-type move (and overall not very good), Beat Up uses the party's attack stats and not spatk
I love how you can respond to every criticism by claiming the person never playedd the game
>b-but if you sequence break you can catch 30 level seel that also learns ice beam 18 levels later than gift lapras and has lower bst total! You haven't played the game!!
Cool
>You get surf after defeating Koga, one of two gym leaders that you can do as you fifth... and usually the one that people do as fifth.
Sabrina is the fifth gym leader. You would know it if you actually played the game
I usually battle Koga 5th
>>"sequence break"
>Proceeds to describe sequence break trying to make it sound like it's not a sequence break
What did he mean by this
>Implying doing gyms out of order is sequence break
It doesn't matter that I can win with anything, I just HAVE to use stab moves, okay?