Disagree, game is the right length. But it's true that having the double jump way earlier and giving out a couple more upgradea would have helped it. It's kinda stupid how out of the way everything after the ground pound is.
https://i.imgur.com/nr2IEM8.jpg
Playing it for the first time and liking it so far. What do you think of it?
It's stupid how a game made by 3 people plus maybe a few dozens of small task helper, is far better than many games made by 800 people and thousands of other task helpers.
It's not that ridiculous when you realize that the more people you add to a development team, the more lethargic it becomes. More time and resource are spend on management/organization (more meetings, etc), more effort roping a bunch of people to all follow the same vision, and so on.
I think most of the best games in vidya history were made by small to medium sized teams. The larger the team the more diminishing the returns, until you hit a point where it becomes inefficient.
This is the biggest most underrated reason why modern AAA is the way it is IMO. Budgets are too big, teams are too big, and the dev cycles are too long. We used to get more games that were leaner but more creative. Now almost every AAA game is a behemoth with a diluted vision that has to pander to everyone possible in order to break even.
I don't like it, but I understand why other people do. The map system and the stupid fricking corpserunning that games like this tack-on are moronic. It just makes me want to play Castlevania, or Metroid, or DS1
Best world and interconnection in the genre.
Best route variety and non-linearity in the genre.
Its best bossfights are the most dynamic and mobile in the genre (Other than Ori where youre super mobile and the boss is a stiff moron)
Extremely vast and complex lore, yet super concise and coherent plot that can be easily understood
its 100% one of the peaks of the genre. many of its best qualities have yet to be matched by any newer game.
>Playing it for the first time and liking it so far. What do you think of it?
It's very good, not much else to say. I think the boss rush DLC is a bit ass though.
The map is cumbersome and the world is unironically too big for how slow and limited your movement options are. Fast travel is a bandaid fix and even then some paths are just blocked off later in the game because frick you I guess
>world is unironically too big for how slow and limited you are
anon.. you can go from the abyss to the top of the crystal peak by walking within like, 6 minutes. 10 minutes tops if youre a beginner player that doesnt know the paths very well >then some paths are just blocked off later in the game because frick you I guess
this literally only applies to the first area of the game, when it gets infected
it takes 1 minute to walk around it
>anon.. you can go from the abyss to the top of the crystal peak by walking within like, 6 minutes
Yeah and it's not fun. You're just spam dashing everywhere and it's boring as shit, the crystal heart dash is borderline useless and isn't satisfying to use at all. >it takes 1 minute to walk around it
Refer to the first point. Removing a convenient path for no reason is bad design and doesn't make the game more enjoyable in any way.
These aren't game breakers and HK is still fine but for such a huge part of them game it really drags it down and makes every instance of backtracking a chore
>for no reason
Just because you don't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Excessive backtracking can get boring, especially when going through early areas that no longer feel challenging. Changing things up can help prevent stagnation and makes the world feel more dynamic.
I actually can't fathom why they did it. If it's because of your reasoning then they, like you, are fricking idiots.
Do you know what a good metroidvania does in that situation? It doesn't block off a path and make you take an inconvenient detour, it allows you to use your new upgrades to take a shortcut.
Making something more tedious doesn't make a game less boring
Loved it but near the end it became the dark souls "you died" meme and it started spamming obnoxious quests and endless , repetitive, cancerous platforming sections just for the sake of it.
The boss rush dlc was really tryhard too, not a fan of it.
Hopefully they won't overdo it with Silksong... of it ever releases.
I enjoyed it.
Some people claim to be terribly bothered by the fact that the player occasionally needs to pass through areas that they've already been to - despite that almost every zone can be traversed in two or three minutes. They also kept complaining that they were consistently getting lost and walking in circles.
They're transparently bait, but I find it very amusing to imagine the kind of person that would genuinely have those problems trying to navigate everyday situations.
Pretty good, got fricked at times for not using the markers the game sells you for cheap, remember to buy and use your markers, OP, they make everything so much easier.
I just replayed it. It is a masterpiece. The way everything is weaved together is nothing short of amazing. Hopefully Silksong will live up to Hollowknight but the latter may be lightning in a bottle.
>start a lonely, mysterious metroidvania clearly about the player's journey of discovery >immediately go on the internet to pointlessly look for opinions and spoilers
Are you fricking moronic? If you're liking it then close your god damn browser. I hate zoomers.
I really liked it. I played it during 2020 Covid and beat everything, including the DLCs and the super-duper boss rush for the secret ending.
I have not yet replayed the game
I've been watching a streamer play it and it's wild how much stuff I take for granted
Doesn't matter how big of a "remember this for later" message something gives, as soon as it's off the screen it's gone from his memory. He went the first twenty hours without buying the bench pins, and even after buying them he'll be a room away from a bench and skip it and die shortly after. He'll stare at the map for a minute trying to figure out where to go, ignore all the open holes, and go back to the same 1-2 places he's been fixated on all game even though nothing has changed at them.
He's really good at the combat too so it's not like he's "bad" at the game, he just makes it way more long and tedious than it needs to be by playing on vibes with his brain turned off.
Oh and I guess I should post my conclusion.
Game is obviously fricking amazing, but I can kinda get now why some people aren't fans. They're the type who want to just smoke weed and play games while in Hollow Knight you have to be a lot more methodical, form a mental map, be objective oriented, etc. if you want to progress at a decent pace.
One of the best games of all time. Beating all bosses on radiant in godhome was probably my single greatest gaming achievements. Radiant markoth is such a b***h.
I think it's a great game with tight controls and rewarding exploration. I was only bothered by the seemingly aimless beginning part of the game before you're given your main objective and how the story is basically just dark souls.
Yeah, I loved the game but it took me like three attempts to get past the first few hours. The first area is easily the weakest imo. You're just bouncing back and forth trying to find the one path that isn't a dead end. But when you find the first major power-up or two the whole world starts to feel like it's opening up.
A friend convinced me to get it. It was nice but the map was confusing at and as a result I burned out before finishing. Trying to pick it up again after some time is a nightmare so I restarted…then dropped it midway again. I think it’s overhyped.
good to hear you like the game anon
now you can join us by ruining every discussion of metroidvania on this board
make sure to remind them that the genre is actually called "hollowvania" and that every other franchise is dead since we are actually getting another game, silksong!
Memes aside Hollow Knight has had more influence on the genre than Metroid, at this point.
I'd say of Super Metroid, SotN, and Hollow Knight, Super Metroid is the least influential despite being the oldest and most innovational. It's mainly because of the sheer number of indie metroidvanias that only exist because of Hollow Knight, but a lot of metroidvanias also love to copy SotN because of its melee combat and RPG elements. There's more shameless SotN and Hollow Knight clones than there are Super Metroid clones. Probably because Super Metroid is the most complex mechanically so it's the hardest to recreate.
Silksong?
absolute kino
probably the best indie game I've ever played. But it has an annoying fanbase so it deserves the hate it gets
Good game but overstays its welcome. Needed to either have more upgrades or be half as long.
Disagree, game is the right length. But it's true that having the double jump way earlier and giving out a couple more upgradea would have helped it. It's kinda stupid how out of the way everything after the ground pound is.
It's stupid how a game made by 3 people plus maybe a few dozens of small task helper, is far better than many games made by 800 people and thousands of other task helpers.
It's not that ridiculous when you realize that the more people you add to a development team, the more lethargic it becomes. More time and resource are spend on management/organization (more meetings, etc), more effort roping a bunch of people to all follow the same vision, and so on.
I think most of the best games in vidya history were made by small to medium sized teams. The larger the team the more diminishing the returns, until you hit a point where it becomes inefficient.
This is the biggest most underrated reason why modern AAA is the way it is IMO. Budgets are too big, teams are too big, and the dev cycles are too long. We used to get more games that were leaner but more creative. Now almost every AAA game is a behemoth with a diluted vision that has to pander to everyone possible in order to break even.
Pretty incredible game. I got called a shill for posting it in 2017. Glad you're having fun OP
Good shit, but it's long so if you have autism and you have to complete everything you are in for a ride.
Map system is moronic and the game is too long.
It alright
masterpiece
I don't like it, but I understand why other people do. The map system and the stupid fricking corpserunning that games like this tack-on are moronic. It just makes me want to play Castlevania, or Metroid, or DS1
Best world and interconnection in the genre.
Best route variety and non-linearity in the genre.
Its best bossfights are the most dynamic and mobile in the genre (Other than Ori where youre super mobile and the boss is a stiff moron)
Extremely vast and complex lore, yet super concise and coherent plot that can be easily understood
its 100% one of the peaks of the genre. many of its best qualities have yet to be matched by any newer game.
>Playing it for the first time and liking it so far. What do you think of it?
It's very good, not much else to say. I think the boss rush DLC is a bit ass though.
The map is cumbersome and the world is unironically too big for how slow and limited your movement options are. Fast travel is a bandaid fix and even then some paths are just blocked off later in the game because frick you I guess
>world is unironically too big for how slow and limited you are
anon.. you can go from the abyss to the top of the crystal peak by walking within like, 6 minutes. 10 minutes tops if youre a beginner player that doesnt know the paths very well
>then some paths are just blocked off later in the game because frick you I guess
this literally only applies to the first area of the game, when it gets infected
it takes 1 minute to walk around it
>anon.. you can go from the abyss to the top of the crystal peak by walking within like, 6 minutes
Yeah and it's not fun. You're just spam dashing everywhere and it's boring as shit, the crystal heart dash is borderline useless and isn't satisfying to use at all.
>it takes 1 minute to walk around it
Refer to the first point. Removing a convenient path for no reason is bad design and doesn't make the game more enjoyable in any way.
These aren't game breakers and HK is still fine but for such a huge part of them game it really drags it down and makes every instance of backtracking a chore
>for no reason
Just because you don't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Excessive backtracking can get boring, especially when going through early areas that no longer feel challenging. Changing things up can help prevent stagnation and makes the world feel more dynamic.
I actually can't fathom why they did it. If it's because of your reasoning then they, like you, are fricking idiots.
Do you know what a good metroidvania does in that situation? It doesn't block off a path and make you take an inconvenient detour, it allows you to use your new upgrades to take a shortcut.
Making something more tedious doesn't make a game less boring
I like it, but the fact that you only have one weapon made me like Bloodstained and Ender Lilies more.
Super Metroid is better
Loved it but near the end it became the dark souls "you died" meme and it started spamming obnoxious quests and endless , repetitive, cancerous platforming sections just for the sake of it.
The boss rush dlc was really tryhard too, not a fan of it.
Hopefully they won't overdo it with Silksong... of it ever releases.
One of the greatest games of all time. Enjoy fren
it's alright
there ain't much to talk about honestly
I wanna ejaculated on hornets glossy black chitin
I get the hands off approach to story, but eh, not a fan. I like everything else about, been making up ideas in my head for a game like it.
It's kino.
The world-bulding is the best part of the game
I enjoyed it.
Some people claim to be terribly bothered by the fact that the player occasionally needs to pass through areas that they've already been to - despite that almost every zone can be traversed in two or three minutes. They also kept complaining that they were consistently getting lost and walking in circles.
They're transparently bait, but I find it very amusing to imagine the kind of person that would genuinely have those problems trying to navigate everyday situations.
I didn't like this game at first and hated it, then I gave it a second ago and now it's one of my favorite games.
flash game for zoomers that don't know any better , the movement is awful
dashmaster + quickdash + sharp shadow for the ultimate nothin' personnel experience
>it's the best in the genre
Not only is it king of the genre, but it's contender for GOAT
I hated the movement. Jumps that dont carry momentum just feel awful to me.
personal top 3 game
Pretty good, got fricked at times for not using the markers the game sells you for cheap, remember to buy and use your markers, OP, they make everything so much easier.
I just replayed it. It is a masterpiece. The way everything is weaved together is nothing short of amazing. Hopefully Silksong will live up to Hollowknight but the latter may be lightning in a bottle.
>pic couldn't be more unrelated
Genuinely has one of the worst beginnings of any game I've played. So unbelievably boring.
>start a lonely, mysterious metroidvania clearly about the player's journey of discovery
>immediately go on the internet to pointlessly look for opinions and spoilers
Are you fricking moronic? If you're liking it then close your god damn browser. I hate zoomers.
Starts slow and not fun, but becomes excellent after a while. Couldn't put it down once it finally clicked for me.
I really liked it. I played it during 2020 Covid and beat everything, including the DLCs and the super-duper boss rush for the secret ending.
I have not yet replayed the game
I've been watching a streamer play it and it's wild how much stuff I take for granted
Doesn't matter how big of a "remember this for later" message something gives, as soon as it's off the screen it's gone from his memory. He went the first twenty hours without buying the bench pins, and even after buying them he'll be a room away from a bench and skip it and die shortly after. He'll stare at the map for a minute trying to figure out where to go, ignore all the open holes, and go back to the same 1-2 places he's been fixated on all game even though nothing has changed at them.
He's really good at the combat too so it's not like he's "bad" at the game, he just makes it way more long and tedious than it needs to be by playing on vibes with his brain turned off.
Oh and I guess I should post my conclusion.
Game is obviously fricking amazing, but I can kinda get now why some people aren't fans. They're the type who want to just smoke weed and play games while in Hollow Knight you have to be a lot more methodical, form a mental map, be objective oriented, etc. if you want to progress at a decent pace.
One of the best games of all time. Beating all bosses on radiant in godhome was probably my single greatest gaming achievements. Radiant markoth is such a b***h.
I think it's a great game with tight controls and rewarding exploration. I was only bothered by the seemingly aimless beginning part of the game before you're given your main objective and how the story is basically just dark souls.
Yeah, I loved the game but it took me like three attempts to get past the first few hours. The first area is easily the weakest imo. You're just bouncing back and forth trying to find the one path that isn't a dead end. But when you find the first major power-up or two the whole world starts to feel like it's opening up.
A friend convinced me to get it. It was nice but the map was confusing at and as a result I burned out before finishing. Trying to pick it up again after some time is a nightmare so I restarted…then dropped it midway again. I think it’s overhyped.
good to hear you like the game anon
now you can join us by ruining every discussion of metroidvania on this board
make sure to remind them that the genre is actually called "hollowvania" and that every other franchise is dead since we are actually getting another game, silksong!
Memes aside Hollow Knight has had more influence on the genre than Metroid, at this point.
I'd say of Super Metroid, SotN, and Hollow Knight, Super Metroid is the least influential despite being the oldest and most innovational. It's mainly because of the sheer number of indie metroidvanias that only exist because of Hollow Knight, but a lot of metroidvanias also love to copy SotN because of its melee combat and RPG elements. There's more shameless SotN and Hollow Knight clones than there are Super Metroid clones. Probably because Super Metroid is the most complex mechanically so it's the hardest to recreate.
My only major complaint is that Silksong doesn't have a release date yet
Also the optional final boss rush was bullshit