The gameplay and mechanics are, but he's right that it has bad level design. It doesn't really matter since it isn't a dungeon crawler or anything like that, bag it's true
2 is better than 1 if you're an actiongay.
1 is beter than 2 if you're an RPGgay.
Actiongays outnumber RPGgays so that's how the "consensus" came to be.
They're both great games.
The only people invested in the saga enough to buy another console were people interest in the story, Recoded has a shit skippable story so his gameplay value has little to offer
>BBS that high
The combat mechanics are so much worse in that game. The only reason you'd like it is that you're a teenager that doesn't know any better as I was when it released, but after replaying it I noticed the cracks almost instantly
BBS had a lot of hype behind it because of the secret video. And to this day, it still has some of the best moments in the entire series.
Yeah, the combat mechanics and gameplay are worse, but the graphics are real nice and BBS does a fantastic job of making you look awesome.
The "hate" (more like people aren't overrating it anymore) for BbS is more recent, and many people's opinions of 3 changed with ReMind + passage of time so people now don't view KH3 as the entry that should have saved everything.
The only portion of the fanbase that hate them are the people that like to examine the games from a design perspective. More casual fans love them.
1 and 2 are the favourites among both crowds because they’re the best of both worlds of being well designed AND also having compelling stories and other things that casual KH fans love.
The level design is shit.
But if you play KH2FM+ (on critical) you're in for very well balanced action rpg kino, especially with the frickton metrics of optional content the game has.
1 has atrocious level design so they aren't actually that different.
3 is the first game in the series where they bothered doing something other than hallways.
It really does suck that its just a matter of walking to the other side of a flat area that is too big for no reason, filled with chests that are just there for you to walk to. I had so much more fun going through my KH1 playthrough yesterday and KH2 is only interesting because of crit mode
KH 1's level design was much more focused on exploration than 2's was. 2's design feels like it was created to give you larger and more uncluttered areas to fight in but in doing so it kind of streamlines a lot of the areas. you get to the combat much faster and the pace of going through the worlds is much faster because there's little backtracking and few "which door do I go in" moments. I got the impression that 2 is way more action game than RPG
pros and cons but I prefer 1's level design much more
People like 2’s combat, 1 and 3 are by far better for world design
I feel like it began in DDD, where the worlds simply got too big for their own good. They should have made it denser like in KH1 but instead added flowmotion to help you zip across it, which only trivialized the design further
But that's what I'm saying. They only added flowmotion because they made each zone the size of a walmart. KH1 didn't need it because it was smarter with its space.
>They only added flowmotion because they made each zone the size of a walmart.
that's ass backwards lmao
you don't design the levels before the movement
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If what that anon said is really true, then it explains why Flowmotion completely breaks DDD’s level design to the point that it makes growth abilities useless. That’s the kind of mistake only an amateur level designer would make.
Considering the inconsistent level design quality across the series, I’m convinced that KH1’s great level design was a total fluke (although BBS and 3 had moments of good level design).
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
they just didn't test the game at all. they had the same approach to the combat.
you could learn to block and dodge all this shit, or you could run Curaga Curaga Balloonra Balloonra and just mash one button.
you could go through this big platforming section we designed, or you could spam the wall jump since there's no height limit on it.
kh3 fixed it via the no-brainer solution of 1 wall jump
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It’s actually kind of bizarre how untested DDD is. I remember playing the e-shop demo for DDD when I was 14, and I figured out how broken Balloon was within 5 minutes of playing, so I have no idea how it got past playtesters.
Isn’t playtesting a basic quality control thing? That seems like the kind of mistake some Steam asset flip shovelware would make, not one of the most popular ARPG franchises of all time.
Flowmotion is bandaid design and nomura being obsessed with warping all over the place since getting fricked out of vsXIII.
KH1 with the camera zoomed out for combat so you get a better view of your surroundings would work perfectly fine. For instance Traverse Town has open areas like the districts that are not that much different from many KH2 areas. Yes, ideally cramped areas should not be present with a zoomed out camera, but the issue with KH2's map design is that they completely removed all added texture. Instead of having sections with light platforming, puzzles and hidden collectibles it's just a hallway that connects square arenas with a chest on each corner.
KH2 has much better movement than 1, and Cavern of rememberance in KH2FM+ is what the rest of the game should've been more like.
The thing is they couldn't have the rest of the game be like the Cavern of Rememberance because of how the movement abilities are tied to drive forms that they didn't want to make mandatory to level up to continue the story. That is a flaw in the game, I'm no defender of the movement abilities being tied to drive level.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm fine with abilities being tied to leveling up the forms so you have an actual excuse to use them, but they should have been all like Valor Form (& Limit) in the way of leveling up. The executiuon of it sucked, especially if you didn't like using certain forms. Feltl like a total mindless grind at times. >Wisdom: Successfully use magic against enemies. 1 point or whatever for every enemy. >Master: Simply combine the previous two requirements, or you can even do something like based on reaction commands used.
I think the only one I'd keep the same is Final, and that's only due to the way it's unlocked.
>KH2 has much better movement than 1, and Cavern of rememberance in KH2FM+ is what the rest of the game should've been more like.
Absolutely true.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>>KH2 has much better movement than 1, and Cavern of rememberance in KH2FM+ is what the rest of the game should've been more like
very true but since they somehow couldn't make leveling up the drive forms mandatory we got that flat level design in KH2 and flowmotion as an alternative way of movements. Maybe they thought backtracking is outdated game design by then.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's as easy as leveling up the movement abilities through the story (like in 1) and making the worlds with increasing complexity on the terrain.
It's just a terrible design choice and it either resulted on uninspired locations, or they really didn't think about actually designing levels at all during development and only when making FM+.
I mean the combat is still kino and what hardcore players remember the most about the game (terra fight, roxas battle, and the data org) are very very good. But the rest of the game is worse because of the hallway nature.
On crit (and crit lvl 1) the combat is so engaging so it's less noticeable, but the first version of KH2 sucked. I remember hating the game on release because even on Proud it was triangle to win, maps are hallways, and you had nothing to do after beating the game. 2FM+ saved 2 with its rebalance, new skills and tons of new worthwhile content.
>Carribean >awful
It's the best world in the entire fricking series (barring the lame clips from the movie story). Could have sold me just that world for $20 and I would have been satisfied.
You're right. I feel like the c**ts that try to praise "world design" in games like KH would be better off just looking at concept art drawings, they'd get infinitely more enjoyment that way. Also xonside this, if you like the level design of ANY kh game, besides 2, you are a masochistic moron of the highest order no exceptions.
You're right. I feel like the c**ts that try to praise "world design" in games like KH would be better off just looking at concept art drawings, they'd get infinitely more enjoyment that way. Also xonside this, if you like the level design of ANY kh game, besides 2, you are a masochistic moron of the highest order no exceptions.
"World design" in KH1 is nothing too amazing, but it is still better than KH2.
Traverse Town opens up gradually, Hollow Bastion is twists and turns around, and even though worlds like Wonderland and Deep Jungle can be frustrating and claustrophobic, at least they try having some exploration.
Chests and Trinity points set a baseline of exploration for each world in such a way that they're actually worth revisiting.
KH2 could have had better worlds, its problem is that movement techniques were locked behind optional drive form level ups, so they could not rely on them for world design. Cave of Remembrance (in Final Mix) makes full use of them, and it's arguably much better than any world in KH1, but it's too little too late.
Final Mix also adds the crowns in each world, which adds a little of exploration/revisit value to the worlds, but it's clearly just a bandaid to a problem they realized was there.
KH3's worlds are big empty rooms full of nothing though. Worst of both worlds.
The series focused in what it was good at, the combat. They left behind the clunky platforming of the original. Creating combat arena hallways which made for a better game overall.
Level design is much worse, characters are more annoying, cutscenes are more cringe, and storyline is awful. But the combat is better, and thats 90% of the appeal right there
2 is a pretty mediocre title, not only is the level design the worst in the series but every ten minutes you're having to stop what you're doing and participate in some half baked gimmick.
Why are 2gays always so angry when people point out flaws? Is it because they tied their entire personality to it?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why do 1gays do nothing but point out flaws in other games?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>things that never happen
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Its all over this thread moron.
That is the one point that is universally praised now about 1. Wasn't there for the critic response to KH1 but it's safe to assume that that doesn't matter in the now.
>That is the one point that is universally praised now about 1
Literally no one praises the platforming.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
the platforming is trash in kh1
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>it's all over this thread
Yeah because 2gays became frenzied when someone pointed out that just having hallways are a bad thing. >literally no one praises the platforming
All over this thread are people praising the platforming. 2gays really do live in their own little bubble so they can avoid criticism.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>All over this thread are people praising the platforming
No. All over this thread are 1gays that can't admit that their favorite game has any flaws at all.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
the KH2 Final Mix kiddies like to shit on KH1 because they are unironic chuuni but embarassed about it
2 was often considered to be inferior to 1 until 2FM released in the west and speedrunners made videos creaming themselves over 2’s combat mechanics (which the game rarely encourages you to make full use of btw).
2 has higher highs, but it also has much lower lows. I think people forget how exceptionally mediocre most of KH2 is compared to 1. A good post-game doesn’t redeem the mid game being kind of “meh”.
Critical doesn’t really make the base game that much harder. Regular enemies still don’t hold a candle to just how broken Sora is. Not to mention that Reflect and Magnet nukes everything.
>Critical doesn’t really make the base game that much harder
Oh jesus. That b8.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It really doesn’t. It reducing your max HP and increasing enemy damage doesn’t mean shit when it gives you 30 AP right out the gate, increases your own damage, gives you a magnet spell that can two shot most mobs of you combine it with thunder, and gives you a Reflect spell that gives you an absurd amount of I-frames for a low MP cost. The hard parts of 2FM are the Data Org, CoR and Lingering Will, and none of them were in the vanilla release. The rest of the game is actually baby-tier easy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Regular Crit isn’t that hard considering how many tools they give you to make it easier. Weirdly enough, Proud would be more difficult simply because you’re not given anything to work with outside 120 health over the 90 health you end up with in Critical.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>over the 90 health you end up with in Critical
So you've never played Critical.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It’s either 90 or 60. I can’t be arsed to remember since I just go by how big the picture is. In Crit it stops by necklace. Either way, when you’re given a damage boost, more AP and several abilities to start things with, it’s going to be fairly easy. Also I’m not counting level 1 in this scenario
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Again you've never played Critical.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You never played beginner which is the best difficulty
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I don’t think you have if you truly think it’s anything super difficult
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I never said it was difficult. I said that anon never played it cause he didn't know how much hp you have and says weird shit like >In Crit it stops by necklace
Wtf does that even mean?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
the frick do you think it means moron?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What I think it means is that he's an ESL. Cause otherwise I have no fricking clue.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>muh esl
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The point is he thinks Crit is easier than Proud. So yes he's never played it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Proud mode just doubles the damage you take.
Critical mode does that and also increases the damage you deal along with several other bonuses. HP doesn’t matter. Its very easy to see why people would say Proud is harder, especially early game since you don’t have the abilities Critical starts you off with
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>HP doesn’t matter
Try actually playing Crit and then saying that.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You’re either at full hp or 1 for any difficult fight. That goes for any difficulty besides maybe Beginner. With stuff like Second Chance and Once More, it’s just a matter of not messing up multiple times in a row while in a battle
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Actually crtitical mode is where HP matters even less than normal.
You play the game with the assumption that you take 2 hits without healing and you die because everything after a certain point is a combo attack that will take you from full to 1 hp thanks to second chance/once more
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You don't get second chance and once more until more than halfway through the game (and that's only if you choose the shield), especially due to the reduced XP you gain. If you chose the rod, you fricked lmao until postgame.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>just read the previous posts
It’s extremely obvious what he meant anon
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You gain 3/4ths of the experience in Critical than you do on any other difficulty, which means you are lower leveled.
Being lowered leveled means yo have less stats, and fewer abilities, making the game harder.
"Hitting harder" doesn't matter when enemies hit more than twice as hard than on Proud, especially due to half your health being slashed. There are many opportunities where you can get outright one-tapped whereas that almost never happens on Proud.
I hate this meme of "Proud being harder" all because they look at one thing in critical and assume they're walking gods because of it.
the difference with critical mode is that you use items more often
you still don't need to summon things ever, or care what you have equipped, or make use of any real strategy, or block
i got through it just fine as a kid
>A good post-game doesn’t redeem the mid game being kind of “meh”
NTa but I played 2FM for the first time a couple years ago and had fun the whole way through.
>NTa but I played 2FM for the first time a couple years ago and had fun the whole way through.
Note that 2FM also reworks the order in which you are given abilities and magic in the main game. In the original game, they gave you shit in an order that made almost no sense.
I suspect most anons have gripes from playing KH2 once on Standard on PS2 (Proud is bad), button mashing their way through, and only playing 2FM for the post game at best.
This is a common recited lie. KH2 was considered superior to KH1 upon release. Most people who praise KH2 never touched the Final Mix version/Critical mode.
>because FM was jp only
That didn't stop people from playing it. Frick I played 1FM and 2FM years before they had official releases.
Its called a fan translation patch.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Me when I don't finish reading a post that directly addresses my counterpoint
No it really was. Base KH2 is for babies. There is basically no real challenge and they don't even have the cavern of remembrance. Like seriously dude it has sephirotj that it
nobody actually plays post-game shit except terminally online weirdos. KH2 was preferred by normies to KH1. This "Final Mix Changed Everything" is just wrong. Most people don't touch that stuff. KH2 was liked based off of the normal playthrough.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah because normies wanted easy button mash game we know.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>KH2 was preferred by normies to KH1
This is true. Everyone I know who played KH in real life likes 2 more because it's faster. Both the original growing up and the 2.5 re-release just this year. I don't really agree with them but thems the breaks.
Compare to the other titles sans 1, level design is perfectly fine, even preferable since they lean more into combat sections and shitty box platforms everywhere only deterred from that aspect. >and participate in some half baked gimmick. >combat is a gimmick now
Really the only true negatives in KH2 is the opening Roxas section and the mandatory little mermaid rhythm game.
>Really the only true negatives in KH2 is the opening Roxas section
Talk about being filtered
Anyone who says the Roxas section is bad, I know not to take their opinions seriously as I always know exactly why they dislike it.
I loved and adored it my first time through. On subsequent playthroughs though it's very automated and slow, and I'm usually just skipping everything until I'm Sora again. Forced tutorials suck and the only saving grace is skipping cutscenes turns it into an hour annoyance rather than a 3+ hour one.
the gimmick minigames in 2 are awful. like the cogsworth escort or whatever in beast's castle. the shitty orb managing ones in mulan. the absolutely brutal one against the cars in timeless river. mulan and pride rock are some of the lowest points of the series, awful map design and awful gameplay elements
The two games have their goods and their bads. KH1 had a better magic system, for instance. It rewarded performance instead of evasion. If you ran out of magic and needed a heal, KH1 encouraged you to get in there and land some hits to regain a bar. Risk and reward were better.
The funny thing was KH1 actually had an enemy stat that was "MP returned per hit" or something like that. So it was weighted where being brave and getting in there would often actively reward you versus trying to just attack stragglers.
The level design is the worst thing about KH1. It's really bad. Everything just a tiny corridor. The only good design is Hollow Bastion and maybe Traverse Town.
KH2 generally has bigger levels with more rooms but KH1 has more distinctive platforming and puzzles in each room. In KH2 you get way more enemy hallways
No? Kingdom Hearts always stood out because of how seamlessly the 3D platforming and traversal meshed with the Action combat compared to any other game at the time of release
That is the one point that is universally praised now about 1. Wasn't there for the critic response to KH1 but it's safe to assume that that doesn't matter in the now.
People forget the platforming was criticized which was why the devs doubled down in making 2's worlds flatter. It feels fine when you get used to it, but playing it for the first time it takes awhile to adjust to it for most players. 2's CoR shows that platforming could've worked for the game, especially if they just allowed you to have level 1 of one of the movement abilities as soon as you got the form and not waiting til you hit level 3, but it's likely they didn't want to upset people with it again and just focused on the combat system. 3 really feels like it's trying to be the middle ground but suffers in other areas.
People criticized the camera not working properly on cramped space and the verticality of the level design more than they criticized the actual platforming itself.
KH1 platforming with KH2 controls would've worked wonderfully because Sora weights way less on 2 and handles much more fluidly.
Deep Jungle, Monstro, and Neverland are worse than anything in 2 by a wide margin. Coliseum is a disappointment that should have been just a side mode like 100 acre or 2's atlantica instead of a "world". Halloween and the End are on par with most 2 worlds.
Its hardly some kind of massive step down. And that's just purely from the levels themselves. Comparing things like Kairi's shitty fetch quest vs the struggle tourney or school project, or dolphin sora vs lion sora, aren't very favorable to 1 either. >oh but if you memorize the entire level you can avoid the 50% of deep jungle that's fricking terrible
Yeah real great level design there.
the change was because KH1 worlds were pretty ass especially on repeat playthroughs, the only good one where the level design shined is Hollow Bastion
most people play for the combat so its kind of just whatever
The other thing is 1 is small yes but the level design is genius for it's size. It's a game for kiddos through and through. Stop acting all mature. KH2 is also kiddie bullshit. The data fights just make you feel like a heckin adult cause they are hard.
>play KH2 before KH1 as a kid >hear people b***h about how KH1’s level design is confusing >play KH1 >the level design is completely fine and easy to navigate as long as you have two brain cells and pay attention to the directions npcs give you.
Are action game gays really so fricking moronic that they can’t handle any level design that isn’t just flat combat arenas and corridors chained together?
Genuinely, the only questionable parts of KH1’s level design are the immense amount of backtracking in Deep Jungle and Halloween Town.
The level design was only hard for me when I was 8. It also felt like such a huge game. As an adult I see how small it is but in a good way. The game is like kiddie dark souls I love it.
Tbf, the first DaS and arguably Bloodborne have some elements of KH1 DNA:
>non-linear level design >big focus on exploration and making the player figure things out for themselves >combat is slower paced and more strategic, with a bigger focus on being in a similar weight class to your enemies >hidden secrets that encourage revisiting areas >bigger focus on builds
It’s not a perfect 1:1 of course, but the similarities of them both being Zelda influenced ARPGs are there.
>pay attention to the directions NPCs give you
This is blatantly dishonest because KH1 has a habit of frequently dropping you out of a cutscene with literally no direction, or even a stated goal
>Ariel tells you to follow the Tridents to the palace >Flounder tells you to try using the dolphin >after you met Kerchak, Donald observes that he was looking towards the treehouse for some reason >Geppetto gives you hints on how to navigate Monstro >everyone in Halloween Town gives you directions and instructions every step of the way
Everything else can be determined through common sense (I.e “Maybe I should check this area I haven’t checked yet?”).
>cherrypicked shortlist of the times when KH1 does tell you where to go
OK >“Maybe I should check this area I haven’t checked yet?”
Except that sometimes it's a place you have been to before, i.e. wandering around until you trip over the next cutscene
I don't hate backtracking but it's pretty annoying when you have to backtrack and you don't know where you're supposed to backtrack to
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's not that hard the worst part is the dolphin in Atlantic. Otherwise it's fine
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's not about it being hard, it's about being annoying and potentially wasting the player's time
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No that is just not true sir.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm the one complaining about it so I'm pretty sure I know the reason I'm complaining, actually
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Calm down
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>potentially wasting the player's time
This is a modern criticism that is rooted in the post social media world where infinite distraction is competing for finite human attention. That doesn't apply to old games from before social media because back then people played games to spend their excess time
>skip through cutscenes like a madman >somehow miss the easy direction
I will give people though, Atlantica and Jafar's dungeon give some really shit direction for how big the map is, but the cutscene you get when you solve the puzzle or actually do what they want you to do makes it easier
what made me despise Atlantica above all else is not being able to ride the dolphin when heartless appear, having to guess where to and clear them out became a chore quickly as you had to chase it down
>all of the people in the thread predictably going that KH1 has the better story and levels while KH2 has the better gameplay >when I personally believe that KH1 had the better enemy/mob design by far
Based and same. KH1’s enemies felt perfectly designed around Sora’s capabilities while a lot of KH2’s enemies are an absolute joke until the end/post-game.
>endgame is filled with enemies explicitly designed to take advantage of Sora's lacking mobility and range
>potentially wasting the player's time
This is a modern criticism that is rooted in the post social media world where infinite distraction is competing for finite human attention. That doesn't apply to old games from before social media because back then people played games to spend their excess time
>muh social media
Shut the frick up
You're aware that you only have so much time to be alive, right?
This isn't about "get things done as fast as possible," it's about "not wasting the player's time" and these are VERY different things.
There is no actual reason why a game shouldn't give the player indication of the current goal or destination.
Calm down
Am I coming across as being particularly agitated to you?
is filled with enemies explicitly designed to take advantage of Sora's lacking mobility and range
You have a literal time stop spell, an electric AoE, a homing fireball, and one of the best shotguns in gaming (DEEP FREEZE). Use your damn magic, anon.
>There is no actual reason why a game shouldn't give the player indication of the current goal or destination
You’re one of those peeps who’s only mainly played games from 7th gen to onwards, aren’t you?
Talking about older games, let's use classic point-and-click adventure games to illustrate what I'm talking about.
In something like a Monkey Island, you know what your goal is. The problem is how to reach that goal. And yeah sometimes these games use moon logic to get there, but you at least know what you're trying to do.
That's a very, very different thing from a "where the frick do I go" moment.
One of them is giving the player a direction to go in, but leaving the path obscured. The other is just not telling them anything, causing them to waste time trying to figure out what the goal even is, let alone getting there.
This really shouldn't be the hill you want to die on.
People who say 2 has better combat just think that DMC-esque flashiness alone makes a good combat. Most of the enemies in 2 are an absolute joke aside from the Dancers, Sorcerers and Hot Rods, and then they’re not immune to either Magnet or Reflect cheese.
I find it funny how even something as simple as a Soldier is a genuine threat in early game KH1, whereas in 2, they barely register.
There are some advantages to the way KH1 works, but you are a cartoon character if you're praising it for being harder or less cheesy. Stop is even dumber than Reflect, Gravity is more powerful than Magnet, Aero is so comically overpowered you're basically playing the game wrong if it's not up and you can heal spam easily. The summons are also better in 1, where you just win instantly as soon as you drop one.
And all of that is moot because both games are RPGs for children and they give you more than enough healing spells and items to just button mash through.
People who say 2 has better combat just think that DMC-esque flashiness alone makes a good combat. Most of the enemies in 2 are an absolute joke aside from the Dancers, Sorcerers and Hot Rods, and then they’re not immune to either Magnet or Reflect cheese.
I find it funny how even something as simple as a Soldier is a genuine threat in early game KH1, whereas in 2, they barely register.
>combat
Funny because I think KH1 has by far the better enemy/mob design.
>enemy design
KH2 has better combat design (how Sora controls), but KH1 has better Heartless design and better designed encounters (but Nobodies mog everything in KH1, especially the last three Nobody fights in CoR)
Probably because it’s a rare instance of 2 having a really well designed mob encounter where the enemy type compliment eachother and create a solid challenge. 2 would be admonished if all its claims of being too easy if it had more fights like that.
Sorry anon, but I don’t particularly think that pressing triangle when a Sniper appears to automatically reflect the shots make for an engaging encounter.
The engaging part is when multiple different enemies appear, you are right. Good thing then that KH2FM always has an interesting combination of enemies that harmonize.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Good thing then that KH2FM always has an interesting combination of enemies that harmonize
Lmao no
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It literally does, no clue why you would choose to lie.
real talk, I always felt the Heartless after 1 got too goofy. Like all the one's in KH1 felt like a legit threat at time but from KH2 they're all mooks to facilitate the juggle combat.
I hated KH2 for the longest time because the levels were hallways and the combat was buttom mashing X and ocasional quick time events.
Then I played critical and I finally understood
It’s really not. You just don’t know how effective magic could be. KH1 is also an RPG and a lot of people forget that the RPG portion of the formula isn’t just for influencing what abilities you get, or a soft reminder to check for resistances, or the fact that you actually go into the settings and change the behavioral state of Donald & Goofy for each given situation, lest you fall for bandwagon memes jabbered by poor, unfortunate souls. The MP bar, alongside being a modular mechanic that rewards action and engagement of an enemy (with passive reaction from damage coming later), is a sliding scale that influences the intensity of each spell’s might, which in turn means chillin in the back and just launching fireballs, not to mention how this further enhances a Summon’s power and time allocation. Each of said spells available on the kit also function differently, having a dedicated niche that doesn’t underplay their own strengths or overplay another’s. Fire’s single-shot covers up to a mid-range hori/verti distance while boasting a soft tracking hone, Blizzard’s shotgun blast is an all-rounding tool covering each of the difference between you and an enemy, Thunder’s box AoE and its capabilities to target any enemy, anywhere, makes it the absolute best case for any upcoming threats, Cure and Stop are self-explanatory and become even better when paired with Leaf Bracer (ability that grants invulns for that casting period) and Gravity’s percentage-based damage output optimized to its full power on even numerous bosses, and Aero’s fantastic defense both on the outset and with subsequent upgrades is a mainstay the moment you obtain it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm not reading this wall of text.
Next time, try separating your shit into paragraphs.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>local Ganker user can’t read
I’m aware.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>average anon IQ
>no I won't format my posts just read my ugly shit
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>average anon IQ
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I separate info for ease of reading >get called a redditor >don't do it >get this shit
There's no winning with you homosexuals.
Last playthrough I just stacked Thunder resistance and tried to the back of her head. I managed to tank the lightning and mash x for 8 minutes. Fricking terrible, but the keyblade you get is great lol.
with 2 you have to restrain yourself to avoid completely steamrolling through it. there are so many easy-out options like drive which completely heals you, summons which are just brokenly powerful, mickey with his busted orb attack, and reflect which basically casts an invincible kill-aura. and the only option to really make it challenging is the 1hp level 0 mode which just isn't fun.
1 feels way more grounded. you aren't presented with thousands of easy-out opportunities and fighting bosses feels like actually trading blows, where your supplies are limited and you mana doesn't just magically auto-refill.
1 does have some busted shit like Stop spam, Goofy and Ariel in general, Mushu with Damage storage, Gravity when coupled with a Magic build etc.
Although to KH1’s credit these things require either some set-up or skill to become gamebreaking. In 2, the basic attack button is busted. So much so that BBS ended up nerfing physical attacks into the ground.
wtf were they thinking with chain of memories? >dude just go through all the levels you just went through again except we just deleted the level design
i dont even hate the card shit but making 80% of the game just rehashing kh1 is so insanely dull
2 will forever be below 1 for the homosexual decisive pumpkin being better than everything else that comes after it. oblivion was fricking great in vanilla kh1 (not fm) and it's trash in 2 so much so that it's not even exciting to pick up.
it seems most people think 2 is a 9.9/10 game except for that one little thing. so, anons, what would you change about it? for me: add a spam punishment/cooldown to reaction commands so that you cant just mash triangle
Make magnet and reflect cost more mana. Remove the combo and finisher attributes of those two moves so you can't transition from magnet into a finisher for example. Also make them cost like half your mana.
Give Ultima a special finisher. It's pretty lame in 2FM, giving it a special finisher like a magnet type ability or an active hitbox like in Final Form would make the grind more worth it.
Make every Drive form have a use. Valor is useless and so is Master Form. At least Wisdom can be used to lame a fight, Master is redundant once you get Final Form.
Tying growth abilities to story progression is a great idea from the other anon, but maybe only make it level 1 of the ability and put the other ones behind leveling.
I noticed this too as I wrote it, but the only other way would be to tweak the enemies so they don't get affected by Magnet. But if half the enemies aren't affected by Magnet, it's a lot weaker. I would rather it still be a universal tool, but at least reduce the frequency of usage.
The stuff I listed is bad balancing. The game isn't perfect when 90% of all encounters can be solved in the same manner. If you love the game so much you should be wanting it to be better, anon.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Remakes are cringe bro
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nobody is talking about remakes, are you 12?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Who uckin cares it's been 20 years
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So you are underage ok. You need to learn to read a reply chain before saying some completely irrelevant stuff.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And? People don't seem to mind as its considered the best combat in the series.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And?
There's no and. It's bad balancing, improving the balancing means improving the game. There is zero reason for you to be against improving the game.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
There's a hundred reasons to be against it but I won't be getting into that in this chat.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
99 of those hundred would be you hating to be forced to use one of the other 30 options the game presents you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>improving the balancing means improving the game
No it doesn't.
You just want to nerf things you don't like.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I genuinely think you are too stupid to understand the point.
there's no consequences in kh2. you have endless options to mash through the game. you can cancel into reflect, a fully invincible move much much better than the dodge roll. you have full invincibility on limits. you can cancel into drive which is also fully invincible and recovers all your hp. you can mash RCs as a cancel which are almost all invincible and interrupt the enemy's attack.
but you can't use the dodge roll after an attack. it's completely backwards design. i genuinely don't think they had played any action games before they started working on it.
>Make a better Valor form, e.g. give it a counter and the ability to counterattack from it like Limit form >Make levelling up forms less tedious >Make MP Rage restore MP when hitting enemies like KH1, to reward aggression during MP recharge instead of running like a pussy >Make the rest of the game Cave of Remembrace-tier level and mob fight design
Y'know KH1gays keep saying to use magic
Well I am
And it barely does any damage
I'm LV50 with 7MP on Proud Mode and it takes two Blizzagas to take out a Red Nocturne.
If you actually want magic to be viable, you HAVE to spec entirely into magic. That's the part they're leaving out. If you aren't, then the damage your magic does frankly isn't worth it compared to melee combos, and that MP is better spent on Cure, especially with the enemy damage on Proud.
The damage storage trick only really works on LV1, as well.
>Magic damage scales with your MP bar, anon.
what the frick I never knew that
Does it say so ingame?
t. pretty much only used cure except on special occasions back when I played this
>Does it say so ingame?
Frick no lol. I had to find that out the hard way while farming Pink Agaricus.
I was wondering why my stop only lasted a short while, then I read that the time an enemy is stopped is tied to your MP bar same goes for the damage of all spells.
I believe it technically does, but only in the stats menu. It's like how 2's status menu shows how to level the forms, only if you go into it and highlight your cursor over the form. Both 1 and 2 really liked hiding information from the player which I think there's so much confusion to this day.
Yeah, I know it scales. That's why I mentioned how much MP I have.
This is a normal amount of MP for this point of the game for someone who isn't investing entirely into a magic build.
Basically, you either get good melee damage, or good magic damage. You can't have both
>You can't have both
That is why Ultima exists. It's really the only one that balances both out, and once you have Ultima you automatically have a bunch of MP/Strength boosting accessories too. I really like that about KH1
Get yourself Shiva Belt in Colosseum by using Blizzaga on the Braziers. It'll boost your MP.
>Get yourself Shiva Belt in Colosseum by using Blizzaga on the Braziers.
That gives you a gummi block, I just did it the other day
Or did they really make two stages of reward for Blizzara and Blizzaga?
I always felt that magic wasn't really worth it as soon as you get Divine Rose especially in final mix. you could pump max MP with accessories and Diamond Dust but sliding dash into slapshot is so much fun. I'd rather save the magic for aero/cure/gravity/stop and do mainly physical damage
KH2 was literally MEANT to be easy baby Kingdom Hearts and I am tired of pretending it wasn't. Sure they made it harder in Final Mix at the end of the game but nevertheless it was meant to be easier Kingdom Hearts. As a consequence it is less of a classic than KH1 but still good.
KH1 really was an exceptional JRPG for its time. So much so that its carried the series on it back for over a decade. KH2 cannot compete idc what any gayget says. I was there when KH1 was released. It was something special. KH2 is but a cheap imitation. Don't even get me started on 3.
>play kh1 on proud >starts out kinda tough >eventually get leaf bracer and second chance >game is now easy as frick
I always wondered why they changed the MP system in 2 but now I get it
They made heal more punishing but at the same time you are supposed to use magic a bunch before casting heal and recharging. It works but I also like KH1 system
there's an ebb and flow with how they did it in 2 thanks to the drive gauge and how it fill faster while on mp recharge
you're never truly out of options but you have to vary things up
Is there any mod that tweaks the difficulty of 2? I'd like to play something in-between critical and cutting-your-limbs-off difficult. So some of the stuff mentioned above >Reaction command timing >Reflect nerf >Keyblade rebalancing >Rework drive leveling
>muh level design
Both underwater levels sucked, but I do prefer Ursula in 1. That said both games have linear means of progression in-level, the same shitty gummy segments but arguably done better in 2 without the warp homosexualry. Alice is shit, Halloween town is about as okay in both versions.
But when I think of “better” level design I still think of empty libraries and puzzle rooms in KH1 and trinity limit spots.
I wouldn’t say that’s “better” when it’s a way to mask keeping players from the intended path.
>I wouldn’t say that’s “better” when it’s a way to mask keeping players from the intended path
That’s a perfectly valid way of designing levels, though.
Compared to say, OoT, I’d rather the focus be key abilities with use in combat vs a red-blue-green marker system that’s only there to mark key areas.
Frick, even the spell doors in traverse town make more sense than TL.
>That said both games have linear means of progression in-level
This is flat out untrue. There’s tons of little optional shit in KH1 that you can go through the entire game without knowing.
>it’s a way to mask keeping players from the intended path
At the end of the day, no matter how open ended you make a level, there will always be a degree of going from point A to B. I still prefer it when there’s multiple ways of getting to B and I’m rewarded for thinking outside the box though.
2 doesn’t even have any hidden secrets. The closest is the Orchicalcum+ chest in TWTNW (which I’ll admit is quite clever in its placement).
The problem with this series is a problem that plagues the entire JRPG genre tbh. The go way over the top with combat now. They sneak in a plethora of ways to make the game easy. They just throw too much shit at the wall for the sake of making the game easier and providing what amounts to porn basically. You get too much too soon. I just want a basic well thought out combat system which rewards me for sticking with the game. Kh1 nailed that. But investors come in and say "we gotta go bigger" and it just ends up ruining it.
The experimentation KH does is something I like and dislike. On the one hand it's sad that its not super consistent between titles but its also cool they try different things and there's something about each game I like.
Game-play formula of KH1 is watch a cut-scene and then wonder around in a Maze till you find the exact room that triggers the next story cut-scene all while havin to do awkward platforming.
KH2 realized people dont care about platforming so they toned it down in favor of better combat and levels designed to be more like battle arenas than platforming chalanges. Levels in KH2 are more straightforward.
KH3D finally refined the platforming enough to put it back in to the game and KH3 inherited some of that platforming elements.
You could say that but I think KH2 was just made for kids. They made it easier for the noob kids to enjoy. Now that we all grew up they decided frick it let's make it interesting again.
Yeah they both were for kids but KH2 was meant to be easier. But once you become an adult 1 feels more classic and 2 is good but it was meant to be easy basically.
>in favor of better combat and levels designed to be more like battle arenas than platforming chalanges
When the enemy encounters are lackluster as hell, that doesn’t really help much.
The arenas in KH3 are so fricking bad compared to KH2. The part where you fight multiple-bosses in the same brown rock arena was soul-suckingly lame. The World That Never Was had such cool looking environments for all the fights. Scala Ad Caelum was cool but the floaty aspect just made it shit
yeah KH3 worlds are honestly so fricking bland especially visually like Keyblade graveyard is ass and Scala Ad Caelum is pretty but its no Hollow Bastion or World that Never Was
that had a sort of eeriness to them
For all of the cool options and interactions KH2 has that people like to talk about when it comes to propping up the game, a lot of people forget that a lot of said options are ever hardly utilized by the vast majority due to the game failing to provide challenges that demand more tactical approaches due to either overcentralized tools (RCs) or horrific balance (Reflect).
It just drops summons and limits on you with no explanation of what they're good for and hell, even Drive Forms are barely explained even if you do read through the abilities. Now, I’m all for a game just allowing you to experiment with whatever in order to find good uses (some of my favorite games are like this) but when the enemy/mob design doesn’t incentivize you to take advantage of these aspects, then it feels like wasted potential.
KH2's flow is nice from a game feel perspective but all too often it comes at the expense of depth and meaningful decision-making. A bunch of options are usable in many situations because they're all so damn strong that it doesn't matter that much how you play. The reason you can use lots of tools in KH2 is because the game is not all that difficult. It rarely pushes you to consider your strategies outside of the additional FM content. Hell, some of the most complained-about moments in KH2 are when the game suddenly decides it's *not* time to press X until the enemies die and also doesn't give you a Reaction Command for an easy win, like the Hot Rods. I basically never used Summons or Limits in my Critical playthrough of KH2FM and I still beat it.
>a lot of said options are ever hardly utilized by the vast majority due to the game failing to provide challenges that demand more tactical approaches due to either overcentralized tools or horrific balance
Anon you're just talking about every KH game
I’d argue KH1 does a pretty good job at that since mob encounters can come in a variety of different patterns and enemy archetypes. Large Bodies are a very good example. When you first meet them, you learn that a good way to get past them is by using your magic to bypass the fact that they block attacks from the front. So what does the game do to make it so that they’re not just a cakewalk? Pair them up with other enemy types that they synergize well with. In Olympus Coliseum, for example, they get paired up with elemental rhapsodies that absorb magic of a particular type and these guys are placed right in front of the Large Bodies so you gotta get up close and personal
That's cool. Bet you 90% of players see that encounter and go >Press x on the rhapsodies >jump around the large body and press x some more >cure as needed
Just like they did for every other encounter in 1.
This. Watching casuals play, they think magic outside of cure and aero is ass by the end of the game, and sometimes thunder if you're lucky. The game doesn't encourage their use much outside puzzles, and you can just mash X and be fine.
You say this like every KH doesn't have some dominate strategy that trivializes the majority of mob encounters. Half of 1's combat is not using the terrible last hit of your melee combo and once you get blizzard the game may as well be over. BBS has surge/mine, and 3's quickstep lets you punish anything any enemy or boss does from anywhere in the arena.
Are we really pretending every single room of Monstro or Neverland can't be cleared by just mashing attack?
Oh so wasting time with suboptimal mashing is fine with 1 lets you do it, but bad when 2 lets you do it?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
When mashing is the best option to get you through the majority of encounters in 2, yes. Especially since Reaction Commands exist.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Its not the best option though in most encounters. Yes its strong but so is mashing attack in 1. >Shadows are better dealt using fire since it meaties them coming out of the floor where as they'll often just re-enter the floor if you're mashing >Centaurs will mulch you with the spin if you mash in their face >Samurai and Gamblers can have negative effects on RC >Statues reward you for timing your hits rather than mashing >Mashing against hot rods enrages them
Pirates, dancers, toy boxes, I could go on. The only fights where mashing is optimal tend to be spectacle fights like 1k heartless or early game shitters like knights who also get mulched by mashing attack in 1.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
KH2 has an entire segment when you can just mash X and triangle. Hell, not even just X.
https://x.com/lightning254/status/1791807534677790864?s=46&t=hHMkRZSCKFxMe1Gq_aHQhg
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>we now interrupt KH2 to bring you Dynasty Warriors!
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And it's the best moment in the series. Absolute kino.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah, if you enjoy having keys jingling in front of your face.
Damn. They really got me there, now I'll have to jump and mash attack. Which the game even rewards you for doing against darkballs for parrying the bite.
I was shocked how many that qt dropped me, by the end I had about 5 more then I actually needed while never getting mroe than 87 hits.
Actually had to google if they increased the drop rate for the PC version lol
I think the good level design for 2 really kicks into gear in the second half of the game, I don't think it ever quite approaches the open-endedness of 1 but the cavern, Wtnw, and pirates have some pretty peak areas. Helps that the combat is a massive improvement action-wise over 1
>massive improvement combat-wise
Never got this meme. KH2’s combat felt more like a sidegrade to me than an objective upgrade, when KH1 beating it out when it comes to enemy/mob design and utilization of RPG elements and experimentation.
I feel like people who claim that KH2 is better just because it has flashier combos are fundamentally missing the point considering how they go for different directions in terms of design. In all honesty, I consider KH1’s overall game design to be much stronger than KH2’s.
IMO, KH1 is a masterclass in game design. Not because it excels in any one particular area, but because of how it’s good enough in all of its areas that it ends up creating something far greater than the sum of its parts.
It’s about the closest thing you can get to a perfect game where every aspect of the game just works in harmony with one another.
The game’s elements synergise so well that there’s even perfect ludonarrative harmony between the story and gameplay.
The only reason that Port Royal is well designed is because it’s actually designed around the moonlight gimmick, which is cool as frick. I think the only KH2 world that comes close to KH1 in terms of design is Twilight Town.
Twilight Town is legitimately well designed thanks to it having multiple ways to get to places and the underground tunnels and trains connecting all the areas. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s often put up there with KH1 Hollow Bastion as one of the best worlds in the series.
I will never consider it the same when 2FM came out years later, had like a longer dev cycle than between 1 and 2, and like doubled the game's content.
2 and 2FM are fundamentally different games to me.
This is kind of interesting because KH2FM was modchip-only until the 2010s when the average person's PC became powerful enough to easily emulate PS2. Since every physical EN PS2 copy of KH2 that most people played wasn't Final Mix. It's kind of crazy to think more people played KH2Final Mix than KH2
It's crazy how divisive this game series is. The only reason I can think of is the generation gap between people that played when it first came out and new gays that picked it up like a decade later.
I do think you will be a hater only if you are a new gay. The games were made for kids. The level design IS genius for what it is a little kiddie rpg. But instead you have new gays complaining it's not dark souls. Yeah no shit dark souls is an adult game. KH is still great as an adult if you can appreciate childhood
I played KH1 when it was released. I was in my 20s at the time.
I loved it. I have played every game in the series. KH1 is my least favorite. I fricking hate the camera.
Did you miss where I said I was in my 20s when KH1 first came out? I'm fricking 43 now
I will never consider it the same when 2FM came out years later, had like a longer dev cycle than between 1 and 2, and like doubled the game's content.
2 and 2FM are fundamentally different games to me.
KH1FM exists.
Pro tip homosexual. Whenever anyone says KH1, they mean 1FM.
Whenever anyone says KH2, they mean 2FM.
Stop being autistic little homosexuals.
My issue is that KH1FM added nothing that people who say "KH1 is my favorite" talk about.
People who say "KH2 is my favorite" talk almost exclusively about content added in KH2FM.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I said stop being an autistic homosexual.
DO IT.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why not just admit that KH2 was shit and that you only like KH2FM then?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
see
I said stop being an autistic homosexual.
DO IT.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>thread talking about design differences between KH1 and KH2 >KH1 positive topics are always things that existed in the base game and were unaffected by 1FM >KH2 positive topics are almost (because Twilight Town) always things that did not exist in the base game and were only added in 2FM
All I'm asking you, and other "KH2 fans", to do is acknowledge that KH2FM > KH1 > KH2. Why is it so hard?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
see
I said stop being an autistic homosexual.
DO IT.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ah so it's because you never played these games as they released despite your claims of being some oldgay who played the games as they released in your 20s as a bad way to justify your opinion, meaning you've never actually played KH2 as it existed for years for most fans.
Got it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You are perhaps the only person on Earth autistic enough to care about delineating the vanilla releases from the Final Mixes in 2024
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Personally, I never saw much of a difference between 2FM and 2.
It’s literally just 2, except they haphazardly slapped a band-aid over most of 2’s problems. They’re the same game in the same way that 1 and 1FM are.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
homie, most of the KH2 dick sucking on here COMES from the original. Everything in 2FM is literally an afterthought.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>most of the KH2 dick sucking on here COMES from the original
That is some bullshit and you know it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Every single KH2 fan says some version of "yes, it's just mashy boring fights in big flat rooms for most difficulties, but Critical Mode is a ton of fun and the best KH experience period."
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because once 2FM is out, it's out. It's pointless to look back to the inferior version.
KH2 has the same combat system, and Sephiroth. 2FM adds more Sephiroths.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Okay, but the average KH2 player didn't need to learn any of the more nuanced combat mechanics until 2FM where they got all those Sephiroths and the one difficulty mode that is good, according to them.
I just don't think the statement that all the praised parts of 2 were in the base game is true.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You needed to learn some to beat Sephiroth, which is in 2.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I mean, people love the combat system, which is largely unchanged from the original release.
All FM did was add features and difficulty that pushed players to utilize that system and realize its potential.
KH1 was better before the Final Mix changes and additions. All they did was recolor the heartless to look worse, add a bunch of new shit gimmick enemies, and completely rape the balance of the keyblades.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
This Anon gets it. Secret heartless are not that interesting, forcing them into mandatory Synthesis to get to Ultima Weapon, is also moronic, the recolors to making the dark blue and purple heartless to brownish yellow or bright colors is garbage. It's not worth it for some extra abilities, extra cutscenes, and one optional fight. The best I can say is that you can skip through cutscenes now, and even that's a problem because they forgot to flag certain scenes as skippable.
I never saw the problem people had with KH1 Atlantica. The swinging controls are literally identical to the flying controls, Ariel is literally the best party member in the game, and you have a shitton of magic to make things easier. In fact, Atlantica in general rewards you for using magic as much as possible.
At least in KH2 Altantica’s case, I can see people being let down by the fact that it’s a glorified minigame world and also extremely cringe.
Giant Ursula is actual kino, but regular Ursula’s a bit gimmicky. People who complain about Giant Ursula don’t seem to realise that your party members and various different magic spells are a thing.
>picked Proud mode for my first KH1 playthrough >picked Staff and Shield >dropped Sword >level 52 and still don't have slide dash
WHAT THE FRICK BROS THAT IS NOT ONLY AN ICONIC MOVE IT'S PRACTICALLY A NECESSITY. NO ONE TOLD ME I'D HAVE TO BE END GAME TO GET IT NOW. Thank frick you start KH2 with it from what I remember
KH1 level design sucks ass. 2 isn't better but it recognized the combat was more important and just built a bunch open flat rooms to enjoy that in instead of wasting time and effort on something that isn't really important to the enjoyment of the game. Instead of a lot cramped, repetitive, shitty rooms like KH1. Level design in that game peaks in fricking Traverse town and goes down hill from there.
Yes because they realized people didn't like that shit.
The only people who liked it is Ganker who has the opposite opinion of everyone else in the world.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
There’s plenty of people online who liked KH1’s level design more than 2’s if you actually care to look.
nta but your standards are impossibly high. If KH1 Hollow Bastion isn't level design, then what is?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Do you even look at your own picture? Every place in that picture goes to one other place.
There's no multiple paths to take. Its all one long path to the chapel.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Okay I get it. You seem to think interconnected convoluted maps is the meaning of level design. Also I think don't actually remember playing the game and you saw the numbers 1-13 on the image and took it as being literally linear because it's not a waltz through a bunch of empty hallways like you imply
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No. I've played through hollow bastion like a hundred times, so I KNOW its linear.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>No. I've played through hollow bastion like a hundred times, so I KNOW its linear.
Of course the game will be linear if you speedrun through it and skip everything. But this is turning into a semantics argument where we argue the meaning of linear and open world . Also, you never haven't a game with "level design" yet.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
where is this from? is this a fan made minimap for KH?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>s this a fan made minimap for KH?
yeah. Kind of show how good the level design was that it didn't even need an ingame minimap because most rooms were mnemonically distinct
It's lame as hell. The most fun in that level is the novelty of having to rely on beast to do everything for you at first. Everything after is just walking to the next boss and having to get through the dull shitty puzzles and lift rides to get there.
yeah I remember thinking there were a lot of similarities between KH1 and FFX visually the first time I played it. That Ansem thing really does look like something out of FFX's boss lineup.
1 soul is infinitely higher than 2 and it has a better story.
2 has a better combat system but the worlds suck and you have to play them twice.
One thing I hated about 2 was that you didn't have the time to get immersed in the atmosphere of each world. The levels in 1 were twice as long and you really felt the difference when you moved to a new one.
I often say that the highs of 2 are phenomenally high— Like some of the greatest moments in any JRPG ever level high. The lows however, are pretty fricking low. A lot of the Disney worlds are movie retreads and pointless fluff that don’t even pretend to connect to the larger plot in most cases, and the dialogue becomes extremely cringy in alot of places. There’s also the cutscene direction, which is filled with countless awkward silences and poorly timed gags.
>The levels in 1 were twice as long
Once you know what you're doing, this is simply untrue. The worlds in 1 are actually extremely short. The length primarily comes from how long it takes you to navigate to the correct cutscene triggers.
KHII has full second visits of (almost) every world, with many more characters making the worlds feel properly populated, and you literally spend 2-3 hours (with cutscenes) in one world at the start of the game
>Devs design this elaborate and complex area with multiple hidden secrets and and wacky appearance >have said area literally transform into a boss that you have to fight >once you defeat the boss, the mansion disappears, never to be accessible in the playthrough again >prior to the rereleases, some items in the manor were even permanent missables
I honestly find it wild that devs can put so much effort into an area, only for it to become inaccessible after a while.
kh1 does have a more platformy type of level design, which is nice for that game. however KH2 is still superior. The crown gems you can discover throughout kh2fm are placed well, and there's still a few kissable chests in tight spots. the cavern of remembrance is the only area in the game that pretty much beats anything the first game had in regards to level design. yes the open spaces are big but there is still soul there.
>The crown gems you can discover throughout kh2fm are placed well
Anon, those are more band-aids to try and cover up 2’s lacking level design than anything substantial.
It's not even the fight. It's just Nightmare Before Christmas in general. I never liked claymation. I was disgusted by James and the Giant Peach when I was little.
In the thread? This is like the third one today. We are approaching the end of euro hours which is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.
enemies in KH1 had a clear identity to them
in KH2 they're a bit more squishy but they still have a clear identity to them, only reinforced with reaction commands
in KH3 they're just big piñatas to pop because they're all the same, have ni identities and sora is too mobile to compensate for the floatiness of the combos
They're about even.
1 has higher highs but some levels are just irredeemable. 2 has much more consistent quality.
KH1 has better level design and better writing, but KH2 has a much better combat system and chuunikino.
pretty much this, both games excel in different areas
>chuunikino
This is Nomura's only strong suit, and he's the best at it.
2 is way better than 1. Its not even close.
The gameplay and mechanics are, but he's right that it has bad level design. It doesn't really matter since it isn't a dungeon crawler or anything like that, bag it's true
Define bad level design for me.
It's called gameplay anon, that is the deciding factor for video game enjoyers.
2 is better than 1 if you're an actiongay.
1 is beter than 2 if you're an RPGgay.
Actiongays outnumber RPGgays so that's how the "consensus" came to be.
They're both great games.
This is true
>10% ReCoded
It's over...
The only people invested in the saga enough to buy another console were people interest in the story, Recoded has a shit skippable story so his gameplay value has little to offer
>BBS that high
The combat mechanics are so much worse in that game. The only reason you'd like it is that you're a teenager that doesn't know any better
as I was when it released, but after replaying it I noticed the cracks almost instantly
It was the first portable kh game I played so I thought it was really good
Third
BBS had a lot of hype behind it because of the secret video. And to this day, it still has some of the best moments in the entire series.
Yeah, the combat mechanics and gameplay are worse, but the graphics are real nice and BBS does a fantastic job of making you look awesome.
BBS played so good literally the best game, gameplay wise, in my opinion. Dream Drop Distance and BBB`s gameplay is miles better than the main series.
DDD is more popular than I thought.
It's a really fun game if you play it co-op with a friend. Basically 1 play Sora other play Riku
I thought people hated bbs and 3
You were wrong.
The only place that hates KH3 is Ganker.
You are right, we do.
The "hate" (more like people aren't overrating it anymore) for BbS is more recent, and many people's opinions of 3 changed with ReMind + passage of time so people now don't view KH3 as the entry that should have saved everything.
The only portion of the fanbase that hate them are the people that like to examine the games from a design perspective. More casual fans love them.
1 and 2 are the favourites among both crowds because they’re the best of both worlds of being well designed AND also having compelling stories and other things that casual KH fans love.
How is Days so highly rated? It's such a slog to play, it genuinely has the worst gameplay in the series outside of the mobage shit
The story and soundtrack are really, REALLY good. For casual fans, they value that more than gameplay.
The “story > gameplay” camp of the fanbase is larger than the “gameplay > story” camp, which is what lead to Re:Coded being so criminally underrated.
The level design is shit.
But if you play KH2FM+ (on critical) you're in for very well balanced action rpg kino, especially with the frickton metrics of optional content the game has.
I agree that KH1 has more interesting level design, but it's also a lot more tedious in a few parts like the jungle in tarzan, the whale or atlantica.
1 has atrocious level design so they aren't actually that different.
3 is the first game in the series where they bothered doing something other than hallways.
Very good bait, actually made me pop an artery from the moronation.
It really does suck that its just a matter of walking to the other side of a flat area that is too big for no reason, filled with chests that are just there for you to walk to. I had so much more fun going through my KH1 playthrough yesterday and KH2 is only interesting because of crit mode
KH 1's level design was much more focused on exploration than 2's was. 2's design feels like it was created to give you larger and more uncluttered areas to fight in but in doing so it kind of streamlines a lot of the areas. you get to the combat much faster and the pace of going through the worlds is much faster because there's little backtracking and few "which door do I go in" moments. I got the impression that 2 is way more action game than RPG
pros and cons but I prefer 1's level design much more
People praise 2/FM+ for its combat, which is in fact a significant improvement from 1.
ai post
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KH1 stages feel like dollsets a lot of the time. Like look at alice in wonderlands ""forest""
People like 2’s combat, 1 and 3 are by far better for world design
3 is terrible in its world design
I feel like it began in DDD, where the worlds simply got too big for their own good. They should have made it denser like in KH1 but instead added flowmotion to help you zip across it, which only trivialized the design further
>They should have made it denser like in KH1
God no. Cramped spaces combined with flowmotion would make it impossible to see anything.
Obviously the implication is that flowmotion is absent
But that's what I'm saying. They only added flowmotion because they made each zone the size of a walmart. KH1 didn't need it because it was smarter with its space.
>KH1 didn't need it because it was smarter with its space
Yeah and it was so cramped, the camera would wig out at every opportunity.
>They only added flowmotion because they made each zone the size of a walmart.
that's ass backwards lmao
you don't design the levels before the movement
If what that anon said is really true, then it explains why Flowmotion completely breaks DDD’s level design to the point that it makes growth abilities useless. That’s the kind of mistake only an amateur level designer would make.
Considering the inconsistent level design quality across the series, I’m convinced that KH1’s great level design was a total fluke (although BBS and 3 had moments of good level design).
they just didn't test the game at all. they had the same approach to the combat.
you could learn to block and dodge all this shit, or you could run Curaga Curaga Balloonra Balloonra and just mash one button.
you could go through this big platforming section we designed, or you could spam the wall jump since there's no height limit on it.
kh3 fixed it via the no-brainer solution of 1 wall jump
It’s actually kind of bizarre how untested DDD is. I remember playing the e-shop demo for DDD when I was 14, and I figured out how broken Balloon was within 5 minutes of playing, so I have no idea how it got past playtesters.
Isn’t playtesting a basic quality control thing? That seems like the kind of mistake some Steam asset flip shovelware would make, not one of the most popular ARPG franchises of all time.
Flowmotion is bandaid design and nomura being obsessed with warping all over the place since getting fricked out of vsXIII.
KH1 with the camera zoomed out for combat so you get a better view of your surroundings would work perfectly fine. For instance Traverse Town has open areas like the districts that are not that much different from many KH2 areas. Yes, ideally cramped areas should not be present with a zoomed out camera, but the issue with KH2's map design is that they completely removed all added texture. Instead of having sections with light platforming, puzzles and hidden collectibles it's just a hallway that connects square arenas with a chest on each corner.
KH2 has much better movement than 1, and Cavern of rememberance in KH2FM+ is what the rest of the game should've been more like.
The thing is they couldn't have the rest of the game be like the Cavern of Rememberance because of how the movement abilities are tied to drive forms that they didn't want to make mandatory to level up to continue the story. That is a flaw in the game, I'm no defender of the movement abilities being tied to drive level.
I'm fine with abilities being tied to leveling up the forms so you have an actual excuse to use them, but they should have been all like Valor Form (& Limit) in the way of leveling up. The executiuon of it sucked, especially if you didn't like using certain forms. Feltl like a total mindless grind at times.
>Wisdom: Successfully use magic against enemies. 1 point or whatever for every enemy.
>Master: Simply combine the previous two requirements, or you can even do something like based on reaction commands used.
I think the only one I'd keep the same is Final, and that's only due to the way it's unlocked.
>KH2 has much better movement than 1, and Cavern of rememberance in KH2FM+ is what the rest of the game should've been more like.
Absolutely true.
>>KH2 has much better movement than 1, and Cavern of rememberance in KH2FM+ is what the rest of the game should've been more like
very true but since they somehow couldn't make leveling up the drive forms mandatory we got that flat level design in KH2 and flowmotion as an alternative way of movements. Maybe they thought backtracking is outdated game design by then.
It's as easy as leveling up the movement abilities through the story (like in 1) and making the worlds with increasing complexity on the terrain.
It's just a terrible design choice and it either resulted on uninspired locations, or they really didn't think about actually designing levels at all during development and only when making FM+.
I mean the combat is still kino and what hardcore players remember the most about the game (terra fight, roxas battle, and the data org) are very very good. But the rest of the game is worse because of the hallway nature.
On crit (and crit lvl 1) the combat is so engaging so it's less noticeable, but the first version of KH2 sucked. I remember hating the game on release because even on Proud it was triangle to win, maps are hallways, and you had nothing to do after beating the game. 2FM+ saved 2 with its rebalance, new skills and tons of new worthwhile content.
Toy Box and The Caribbean are kino though
Toy Box and Carribean were both awful. Toy Box especially, fricking hated that Mall so much.
But you can go to this one nondescript corner 100 miles away from the rest of the map to get a shitty chest with a mickey game in it!
Well now you have revealed how much you suck!
>Carribean
>awful
It's the best world in the entire fricking series (barring the lame clips from the movie story). Could have sold me just that world for $20 and I would have been satisfied.
Shit take mushroom boy
>implying zoomers wouldn't get filtered by KH1 within 10 minutes
KH3 is specifically made for morons that get easily wowed by big empty spaces.
World design is a fricking meme and I'm tired of pretending its not.
You're right. I feel like the c**ts that try to praise "world design" in games like KH would be better off just looking at concept art drawings, they'd get infinitely more enjoyment that way. Also xonside this, if you like the level design of ANY kh game, besides 2, you are a masochistic moron of the highest order no exceptions.
"World design" in KH1 is nothing too amazing, but it is still better than KH2.
Traverse Town opens up gradually, Hollow Bastion is twists and turns around, and even though worlds like Wonderland and Deep Jungle can be frustrating and claustrophobic, at least they try having some exploration.
Chests and Trinity points set a baseline of exploration for each world in such a way that they're actually worth revisiting.
KH2 could have had better worlds, its problem is that movement techniques were locked behind optional drive form level ups, so they could not rely on them for world design. Cave of Remembrance (in Final Mix) makes full use of them, and it's arguably much better than any world in KH1, but it's too little too late.
Final Mix also adds the crowns in each world, which adds a little of exploration/revisit value to the worlds, but it's clearly just a bandaid to a problem they realized was there.
KH3's worlds are big empty rooms full of nothing though. Worst of both worlds.
>Combat
Sekiro is better
1 is more soulful. Stakes feel higher and the mood can be somewhat creepy
The series focused in what it was good at, the combat. They left behind the clunky platforming of the original. Creating combat arena hallways which made for a better game overall.
Level design is much worse, characters are more annoying, cutscenes are more cringe, and storyline is awful. But the combat is better, and thats 90% of the appeal right there
2 is a pretty mediocre title, not only is the level design the worst in the series but every ten minutes you're having to stop what you're doing and participate in some half baked gimmick.
Why are KH1gays so insecure they constantly try to belittle 2FM, which is widely agreed upon to be the best game in the series?
It's not my fault that morons latched onto 2 because they couldn't figure out how to use the circle button in any game before or after.
Case in point.
Yes, you're moronic, you made that case already.
Insecure KH1gay detected.
Why are 2gays always so angry when people point out flaws? Is it because they tied their entire personality to it?
Why do 1gays do nothing but point out flaws in other games?
>things that never happen
Its all over this thread moron.
>That is the one point that is universally praised now about 1
Literally no one praises the platforming.
the platforming is trash in kh1
>it's all over this thread
Yeah because 2gays became frenzied when someone pointed out that just having hallways are a bad thing.
>literally no one praises the platforming
All over this thread are people praising the platforming. 2gays really do live in their own little bubble so they can avoid criticism.
>All over this thread are people praising the platforming
No. All over this thread are 1gays that can't admit that their favorite game has any flaws at all.
the KH2 Final Mix kiddies like to shit on KH1 because they are unironic chuuni but embarassed about it
>bringing up KH1 for no reason
>didn't even attempt to rebuke anything he said
Falseflag or schizophrenia
>bringing up KH1 for no reason
No one ever says "Level design" if they are not a KH1gay.
2 was often considered to be inferior to 1 until 2FM released in the west and speedrunners made videos creaming themselves over 2’s combat mechanics (which the game rarely encourages you to make full use of btw).
2 has higher highs, but it also has much lower lows. I think people forget how exceptionally mediocre most of KH2 is compared to 1. A good post-game doesn’t redeem the mid game being kind of “meh”.
>I think people forget how exceptionally mediocre most of KH2 is compared to 1
Because its not true.
>which the game rarely encourages you to make full use of btw
Damn, there really are people that haven't played Critical.
Critical doesn’t really make the base game that much harder. Regular enemies still don’t hold a candle to just how broken Sora is. Not to mention that Reflect and Magnet nukes everything.
Proud mode is genuinely harder.
>Critical doesn’t really make the base game that much harder
Oh jesus. That b8.
It really doesn’t. It reducing your max HP and increasing enemy damage doesn’t mean shit when it gives you 30 AP right out the gate, increases your own damage, gives you a magnet spell that can two shot most mobs of you combine it with thunder, and gives you a Reflect spell that gives you an absurd amount of I-frames for a low MP cost. The hard parts of 2FM are the Data Org, CoR and Lingering Will, and none of them were in the vanilla release. The rest of the game is actually baby-tier easy.
Regular Crit isn’t that hard considering how many tools they give you to make it easier. Weirdly enough, Proud would be more difficult simply because you’re not given anything to work with outside 120 health over the 90 health you end up with in Critical.
>over the 90 health you end up with in Critical
So you've never played Critical.
It’s either 90 or 60. I can’t be arsed to remember since I just go by how big the picture is. In Crit it stops by necklace. Either way, when you’re given a damage boost, more AP and several abilities to start things with, it’s going to be fairly easy. Also I’m not counting level 1 in this scenario
Again you've never played Critical.
You never played beginner which is the best difficulty
I don’t think you have if you truly think it’s anything super difficult
I never said it was difficult. I said that anon never played it cause he didn't know how much hp you have and says weird shit like
>In Crit it stops by necklace
Wtf does that even mean?
the frick do you think it means moron?
What I think it means is that he's an ESL. Cause otherwise I have no fricking clue.
>muh esl
The point is he thinks Crit is easier than Proud. So yes he's never played it.
Proud mode just doubles the damage you take.
Critical mode does that and also increases the damage you deal along with several other bonuses. HP doesn’t matter. Its very easy to see why people would say Proud is harder, especially early game since you don’t have the abilities Critical starts you off with
>HP doesn’t matter
Try actually playing Crit and then saying that.
You’re either at full hp or 1 for any difficult fight. That goes for any difficulty besides maybe Beginner. With stuff like Second Chance and Once More, it’s just a matter of not messing up multiple times in a row while in a battle
Actually crtitical mode is where HP matters even less than normal.
You play the game with the assumption that you take 2 hits without healing and you die because everything after a certain point is a combo attack that will take you from full to 1 hp thanks to second chance/once more
You don't get second chance and once more until more than halfway through the game (and that's only if you choose the shield), especially due to the reduced XP you gain. If you chose the rod, you fricked lmao until postgame.
>just read the previous posts
It’s extremely obvious what he meant anon
You gain 3/4ths of the experience in Critical than you do on any other difficulty, which means you are lower leveled.
Being lowered leveled means yo have less stats, and fewer abilities, making the game harder.
"Hitting harder" doesn't matter when enemies hit more than twice as hard than on Proud, especially due to half your health being slashed. There are many opportunities where you can get outright one-tapped whereas that almost never happens on Proud.
I hate this meme of "Proud being harder" all because they look at one thing in critical and assume they're walking gods because of it.
the difference with critical mode is that you use items more often
you still don't need to summon things ever, or care what you have equipped, or make use of any real strategy, or block
i got through it just fine as a kid
>A good post-game doesn’t redeem the mid game being kind of “meh”
NTa but I played 2FM for the first time a couple years ago and had fun the whole way through.
>NTa but I played 2FM for the first time a couple years ago and had fun the whole way through.
Note that 2FM also reworks the order in which you are given abilities and magic in the main game. In the original game, they gave you shit in an order that made almost no sense.
I know that's why I said 2FM.
I suspect most anons have gripes from playing KH2 once on Standard on PS2 (Proud is bad), button mashing their way through, and only playing 2FM for the post game at best.
This is a common recited lie. KH2 was considered superior to KH1 upon release. Most people who praise KH2 never touched the Final Mix version/Critical mode.
because FM was jp only, it wasn't released in English until 1.5/2.5 on the ps3 (or unless you played cracked translated versions)
>because FM was jp only
That didn't stop people from playing it. Frick I played 1FM and 2FM years before they had official releases.
Its called a fan translation patch.
Me when I don't finish reading a post that directly addresses my counterpoint
>2 was often considered to be inferior to 1 until 2FM released in the west
that is a complete fricking lie
No it really was. Base KH2 is for babies. There is basically no real challenge and they don't even have the cavern of remembrance. Like seriously dude it has sephirotj that it
nobody actually plays post-game shit except terminally online weirdos. KH2 was preferred by normies to KH1. This "Final Mix Changed Everything" is just wrong. Most people don't touch that stuff. KH2 was liked based off of the normal playthrough.
Yeah because normies wanted easy button mash game we know.
>KH2 was preferred by normies to KH1
This is true. Everyone I know who played KH in real life likes 2 more because it's faster. Both the original growing up and the 2.5 re-release just this year. I don't really agree with them but thems the breaks.
>he doesn’t know
>First KH's levels were so complex
dude every world that isnt hallow bastion is like 4 screens long
>long
How about you google what complex means, anon.
kh1s levels are not complex lol that is pure nostalgiatarding
Did you google what it means yet?
This is bull, though
>Agrabah
>Halloween Town
>Deep Jungle
>Traverse Town
>Monstro
Halloween Town is small as frick wtf are you smoking
Small does not mean lacking in complexiry
>exploring Oogie Boogie’s tower
>exploring the different subsets of the town in general
>Agrabah
Why does this world have all of the worst boss fights in it? It honestly amazing how bad they all are.
Not all of them are bad.
>Pot Centipede
A bit annoying, but doable if you’re patient.
>Tiger Head
Worst boss in the entire game and one that wasn’t even necessary, so I’ll give you that.
>Jafar
A legit good boss, especially once you learn how his teleportation pattern works.
>Genie Jafar
Nothing special, but perfectly serviceable.
Reading this post makes me happy to know that nothing ever changes
Compare to the other titles sans 1, level design is perfectly fine, even preferable since they lean more into combat sections and shitty box platforms everywhere only deterred from that aspect.
>and participate in some half baked gimmick.
>combat is a gimmick now
Really the only true negatives in KH2 is the opening Roxas section and the mandatory little mermaid rhythm game.
>Really the only true negatives in KH2 is the opening Roxas section
Talk about being filtered
Anyone who says the Roxas section is bad, I know not to take their opinions seriously as I always know exactly why they dislike it.
because it's a collection of gay minigames and pointless cutscenes in an action game?
I loved and adored it my first time through. On subsequent playthroughs though it's very automated and slow, and I'm usually just skipping everything until I'm Sora again. Forced tutorials suck and the only saving grace is skipping cutscenes turns it into an hour annoyance rather than a 3+ hour one.
>Really the only true negatives in KH2 is the opening Roxas section
Soulless gay holy shit
the gimmick minigames in 2 are awful. like the cogsworth escort or whatever in beast's castle. the shitty orb managing ones in mulan. the absolutely brutal one against the cars in timeless river. mulan and pride rock are some of the lowest points of the series, awful map design and awful gameplay elements
>the absolutely brutal one against the cars in timeless river
Look at this scrub. He doesn't even know the cars are weak to magic.
2 has way better combat, enemies, boss fights
>people
It's internet spergs tbh, they always come up with bizarre rankings
>inb4 gameplay-troon spam
Woops too late
Kys KH3 Tourist
The two games have their goods and their bads. KH1 had a better magic system, for instance. It rewarded performance instead of evasion. If you ran out of magic and needed a heal, KH1 encouraged you to get in there and land some hits to regain a bar. Risk and reward were better.
1s magic system is still the best, I hope they go back and take from it one day.
The funny thing was KH1 actually had an enemy stat that was "MP returned per hit" or something like that. So it was weighted where being brave and getting in there would often actively reward you versus trying to just attack stragglers.
The level design is the worst thing about KH1. It's really bad. Everything just a tiny corridor. The only good design is Hollow Bastion and maybe Traverse Town.
Twilight town was honestly good and hollow Bastion was decent then the Disney worlds are all hallways.
>kh1
>level design
None of the KH games have what I would say is "good" level design, its just a means to an end.
whats the end?
Hitting stuff with your keyblade.
KH2 generally has bigger levels with more rooms but KH1 has more distinctive platforming and puzzles in each room. In KH2 you get way more enemy hallways
>KH1 has more distinctive platforming and puzzles in each room
Something no one liked. The forced platforming in 1 was annoying as hell.
I liked it
No? Kingdom Hearts always stood out because of how seamlessly the 3D platforming and traversal meshed with the Action combat compared to any other game at the time of release
The platforming was very divisive. It's why they changed it when they moved over to KH2.
That is the one point that is universally praised now about 1. Wasn't there for the critic response to KH1 but it's safe to assume that that doesn't matter in the now.
People forget the platforming was criticized which was why the devs doubled down in making 2's worlds flatter. It feels fine when you get used to it, but playing it for the first time it takes awhile to adjust to it for most players. 2's CoR shows that platforming could've worked for the game, especially if they just allowed you to have level 1 of one of the movement abilities as soon as you got the form and not waiting til you hit level 3, but it's likely they didn't want to upset people with it again and just focused on the combat system. 3 really feels like it's trying to be the middle ground but suffers in other areas.
People criticized the camera not working properly on cramped space and the verticality of the level design more than they criticized the actual platforming itself.
KH1 platforming with KH2 controls would've worked wonderfully because Sora weights way less on 2 and handles much more fluidly.
Yeah, nobody likes the tiny maze worlds
Deep Jungle, Monstro, and Neverland are worse than anything in 2 by a wide margin. Coliseum is a disappointment that should have been just a side mode like 100 acre or 2's atlantica instead of a "world". Halloween and the End are on par with most 2 worlds.
Its hardly some kind of massive step down. And that's just purely from the levels themselves. Comparing things like Kairi's shitty fetch quest vs the struggle tourney or school project, or dolphin sora vs lion sora, aren't very favorable to 1 either.
>oh but if you memorize the entire level you can avoid the 50% of deep jungle that's fricking terrible
Yeah real great level design there.
>the end
>on par with most 2 worlds
it's one of the best worlds in the series and heavily mogs almost all the worlds from 2, homosexual
Its literally the exact same type of hallway half the thread is seething over.
the change was because KH1 worlds were pretty ass especially on repeat playthroughs, the only good one where the level design shined is Hollow Bastion
most people play for the combat so its kind of just whatever
No. Wonderland is Kino. Tarzan is kino. Halloween town is kino until you blow up the manor. Frick I could go on
>Wonderland is Kino. Tarzan is kino
Neither of those is kino in any way shape or form.
Halloween Town is nice.
>not liking upside down and sideways room
No. I thought that was a lazy way to give the appearance of more rooms than there really were.
Well you suck big black wiener then
Nice argument.
>go to lab, go to cemetery, go to lab, go to cemetery, go to lab, go to boss and done
It's shit
the other two are ass but Halloween Town style is cool yet the level design is really nothing until you awkwardly climb Boogie I guess
Nothing awkward about that atmosphere and vibes man
Halloween town and Tarzan worlds suck ass, what are you talking about. There's like 4 fricking rooms in all of Halloween Town, it sucks so bad
>level design
KH1 was a platformer RPG
KH2 is an action RPG
The other thing is 1 is small yes but the level design is genius for it's size. It's a game for kiddos through and through. Stop acting all mature. KH2 is also kiddie bullshit. The data fights just make you feel like a heckin adult cause they are hard.
>play KH2 before KH1 as a kid
>hear people b***h about how KH1’s level design is confusing
>play KH1
>the level design is completely fine and easy to navigate as long as you have two brain cells and pay attention to the directions npcs give you.
Are action game gays really so fricking moronic that they can’t handle any level design that isn’t just flat combat arenas and corridors chained together?
Genuinely, the only questionable parts of KH1’s level design are the immense amount of backtracking in Deep Jungle and Halloween Town.
The level design was only hard for me when I was 8. It also felt like such a huge game. As an adult I see how small it is but in a good way. The game is like kiddie dark souls I love it.
>The game is like kiddie dark souls I love it
Tbf, the first DaS and arguably Bloodborne have some elements of KH1 DNA:
>non-linear level design
>big focus on exploration and making the player figure things out for themselves
>combat is slower paced and more strategic, with a bigger focus on being in a similar weight class to your enemies
>hidden secrets that encourage revisiting areas
>bigger focus on builds
It’s not a perfect 1:1 of course, but the similarities of them both being Zelda influenced ARPGs are there.
>pay attention to the directions NPCs give you
This is blatantly dishonest because KH1 has a habit of frequently dropping you out of a cutscene with literally no direction, or even a stated goal
>Ariel tells you to follow the Tridents to the palace
>Flounder tells you to try using the dolphin
>after you met Kerchak, Donald observes that he was looking towards the treehouse for some reason
>Geppetto gives you hints on how to navigate Monstro
>everyone in Halloween Town gives you directions and instructions every step of the way
Everything else can be determined through common sense (I.e “Maybe I should check this area I haven’t checked yet?”).
>cherrypicked shortlist of the times when KH1 does tell you where to go
OK
>“Maybe I should check this area I haven’t checked yet?”
Except that sometimes it's a place you have been to before, i.e. wandering around until you trip over the next cutscene
It's mostly pretty small so backtracking is fine
I don't hate backtracking but it's pretty annoying when you have to backtrack and you don't know where you're supposed to backtrack to
It's not that hard the worst part is the dolphin in Atlantic. Otherwise it's fine
It's not about it being hard, it's about being annoying and potentially wasting the player's time
No that is just not true sir.
I'm the one complaining about it so I'm pretty sure I know the reason I'm complaining, actually
Calm down
>potentially wasting the player's time
This is a modern criticism that is rooted in the post social media world where infinite distraction is competing for finite human attention. That doesn't apply to old games from before social media because back then people played games to spend their excess time
>skip through cutscenes like a madman
>somehow miss the easy direction
I will give people though, Atlantica and Jafar's dungeon give some really shit direction for how big the map is, but the cutscene you get when you solve the puzzle or actually do what they want you to do makes it easier
what made me despise Atlantica above all else is not being able to ride the dolphin when heartless appear, having to guess where to and clear them out became a chore quickly as you had to chase it down
The truth is 2 and 3 are great too. 1 is just the best package.
>all of the people in the thread predictably going that KH1 has the better story and levels while KH2 has the better gameplay
>when I personally believe that KH1 had the better enemy/mob design by far
Based and same. KH1’s enemies felt perfectly designed around Sora’s capabilities while a lot of KH2’s enemies are an absolute joke until the end/post-game.
>>>>>
Wizard is cool, yes.
Wait, you could’ve just done that the entire time???
>aeorora damages it
Ok I'll give it up that's rad
I liked the enemy design more in 1 too. Large Body in 1 is awesome
Oh yeah 1 is actual genius. Everything is in its right place you know? 2 is still great but definitely feels different. Hits different you know
>endgame is filled with enemies explicitly designed to take advantage of Sora's lacking mobility and range
>muh social media
Shut the frick up
You're aware that you only have so much time to be alive, right?
This isn't about "get things done as fast as possible," it's about "not wasting the player's time" and these are VERY different things.
There is no actual reason why a game shouldn't give the player indication of the current goal or destination.
Am I coming across as being particularly agitated to you?
is filled with enemies explicitly designed to take advantage of Sora's lacking mobility and range
You have a literal time stop spell, an electric AoE, a homing fireball, and one of the best shotguns in gaming (DEEP FREEZE). Use your damn magic, anon.
This, not to mention really damn good parry and defensive mechanics.
Plus summons. Mushu can straight up destroy boss fights.
?si=-dpylYTee6HgoCQi
God damn. Is that with EXP Zero?
>There is no actual reason why a game shouldn't give the player indication of the current goal or destination
You’re one of those peeps who’s only mainly played games from 7th gen to onwards, aren’t you?
By actual I mean "reasonable" or "good"
Talking about older games, let's use classic point-and-click adventure games to illustrate what I'm talking about.
In something like a Monkey Island, you know what your goal is. The problem is how to reach that goal. And yeah sometimes these games use moon logic to get there, but you at least know what you're trying to do.
That's a very, very different thing from a "where the frick do I go" moment.
One of them is giving the player a direction to go in, but leaving the path obscured. The other is just not telling them anything, causing them to waste time trying to figure out what the goal even is, let alone getting there.
This really shouldn't be the hill you want to die on.
This is absolutely true.
People who say 2 has better combat just think that DMC-esque flashiness alone makes a good combat. Most of the enemies in 2 are an absolute joke aside from the Dancers, Sorcerers and Hot Rods, and then they’re not immune to either Magnet or Reflect cheese.
I find it funny how even something as simple as a Soldier is a genuine threat in early game KH1, whereas in 2, they barely register.
There are some advantages to the way KH1 works, but you are a cartoon character if you're praising it for being harder or less cheesy. Stop is even dumber than Reflect, Gravity is more powerful than Magnet, Aero is so comically overpowered you're basically playing the game wrong if it's not up and you can heal spam easily. The summons are also better in 1, where you just win instantly as soon as you drop one.
And all of that is moot because both games are RPGs for children and they give you more than enough healing spells and items to just button mash through.
>enemy design
KH2 has better combat design (how Sora controls), but KH1 has better Heartless design and better designed encounters (but Nobodies mog everything in KH1, especially the last three Nobody fights in CoR)
>especially the last three Nobody fights in CoR)
Never really got the hype for this considering Chicken Little mogs them like it’s nothing.
Probably because it’s a rare instance of 2 having a really well designed mob encounter where the enemy type compliment eachother and create a solid challenge. 2 would be admonished if all its claims of being too easy if it had more fights like that.
>Nobodies mog everything in KH1
Not when Reaction Commands exist.
Especially when RC exists.
Sorry anon, but I don’t particularly think that pressing triangle when a Sniper appears to automatically reflect the shots make for an engaging encounter.
The engaging part is when multiple different enemies appear, you are right. Good thing then that KH2FM always has an interesting combination of enemies that harmonize.
>Good thing then that KH2FM always has an interesting combination of enemies that harmonize
Lmao no
It literally does, no clue why you would choose to lie.
real talk, I always felt the Heartless after 1 got too goofy. Like all the one's in KH1 felt like a legit threat at time but from KH2 they're all mooks to facilitate the juggle combat.
I hated KH2 for the longest time because the levels were hallways and the combat was buttom mashing X and ocasional quick time events.
Then I played critical and I finally understood
KH2 fangoyism is the litmus test for how moronic the typical Gankerigger is
>the tasteful arenas from each world in end of the world
>the way the vibes totally change from destati playing in the world
There is no level design until like 15 hours in, everything is
>corridor
>cutscene
KH3 levels rival 1 and in some cases surpass it.
Nope
honestly agreed. I loved weebshitter running up walls. it introduced a lot of interesting ways to expand on the level design
>ignoring the story to go treasure hunting with Jack Sparrow
kino
Why is this fight such fricking horseshit?
I always leave and do Halloween town then come back. Frick this garbage
Bro, just use Stop.
And when I run out of MP?
Use your items or keep attacking her. Anon, it’s not rocket science.
It kind of is rocket science because its a very poorly balanced fight.
It’s really not. You just don’t know how effective magic could be. KH1 is also an RPG and a lot of people forget that the RPG portion of the formula isn’t just for influencing what abilities you get, or a soft reminder to check for resistances, or the fact that you actually go into the settings and change the behavioral state of Donald & Goofy for each given situation, lest you fall for bandwagon memes jabbered by poor, unfortunate souls. The MP bar, alongside being a modular mechanic that rewards action and engagement of an enemy (with passive reaction from damage coming later), is a sliding scale that influences the intensity of each spell’s might, which in turn means chillin in the back and just launching fireballs, not to mention how this further enhances a Summon’s power and time allocation. Each of said spells available on the kit also function differently, having a dedicated niche that doesn’t underplay their own strengths or overplay another’s. Fire’s single-shot covers up to a mid-range hori/verti distance while boasting a soft tracking hone, Blizzard’s shotgun blast is an all-rounding tool covering each of the difference between you and an enemy, Thunder’s box AoE and its capabilities to target any enemy, anywhere, makes it the absolute best case for any upcoming threats, Cure and Stop are self-explanatory and become even better when paired with Leaf Bracer (ability that grants invulns for that casting period) and Gravity’s percentage-based damage output optimized to its full power on even numerous bosses, and Aero’s fantastic defense both on the outset and with subsequent upgrades is a mainstay the moment you obtain it.
I'm not reading this wall of text.
Next time, try separating your shit into paragraphs.
>local Ganker user can’t read
I’m aware.
>no I won't format my posts just read my ugly shit
>average anon IQ
>I separate info for ease of reading
>get called a redditor
>don't do it
>get this shit
There's no winning with you homosexuals.
Aww, poor zoomie.
apparently you can abuse stop in that fight but I always go for the "lock on and pin sora at the nape of her neck and beat the crap out of her"
Last playthrough I just stacked Thunder resistance and tried to the back of her head. I managed to tank the lightning and mash x for 8 minutes. Fricking terrible, but the keyblade you get is great lol.
>he doesn’t know
>waste 3 mp for 3 hits
God imagine casting stop on a giantess and crawling down her throat
kh1s level design is overrated as frick
with 2 you have to restrain yourself to avoid completely steamrolling through it. there are so many easy-out options like drive which completely heals you, summons which are just brokenly powerful, mickey with his busted orb attack, and reflect which basically casts an invincible kill-aura. and the only option to really make it challenging is the 1hp level 0 mode which just isn't fun.
1 feels way more grounded. you aren't presented with thousands of easy-out opportunities and fighting bosses feels like actually trading blows, where your supplies are limited and you mana doesn't just magically auto-refill.
1 does have some busted shit like Stop spam, Goofy and Ariel in general, Mushu with Damage storage, Gravity when coupled with a Magic build etc.
Although to KH1’s credit these things require either some set-up or skill to become gamebreaking. In 2, the basic attack button is busted. So much so that BBS ended up nerfing physical attacks into the ground.
wtf were they thinking with chain of memories?
>dude just go through all the levels you just went through again except we just deleted the level design
i dont even hate the card shit but making 80% of the game just rehashing kh1 is so insanely dull
Wait till you get to the second playthrough lmao
Why the hell would I play this shit twice
Anon, the full story can only be experienced after you play through the Disney worlds again as Riku.
frick that im watching this shit on youtube
That's what I did.
It was originally a GBA game that's why. It was built for 2d side scrolling
>it's a GBA game
Imagine thinking that's an excuse
are you fricking moronic? it was a GBA game
>people get into KH now that it's on Steam
>threads once again devolve into 1gay vs 2gay shitflinging
Hello, fellow /vg/ gay.
It is, despite the level design overall being worse.
Twilight Town>Traverse Town BTW.
2 will forever be below 1 for the homosexual decisive pumpkin being better than everything else that comes after it. oblivion was fricking great in vanilla kh1 (not fm) and it's trash in 2 so much so that it's not even exciting to pick up.
Even Ultima is underwhelming in 2.
it seems most people think 2 is a 9.9/10 game except for that one little thing. so, anons, what would you change about it? for me: add a spam punishment/cooldown to reaction commands so that you cant just mash triangle
Actually give it level design and tie growth abilities to story progression rather than drive forms.
That alone would fix so much.
Make magnet and reflect cost more mana. Remove the combo and finisher attributes of those two moves so you can't transition from magnet into a finisher for example. Also make them cost like half your mana.
Give Ultima a special finisher. It's pretty lame in 2FM, giving it a special finisher like a magnet type ability or an active hitbox like in Final Form would make the grind more worth it.
Make every Drive form have a use. Valor is useless and so is Master Form. At least Wisdom can be used to lame a fight, Master is redundant once you get Final Form.
Tying growth abilities to story progression is a great idea from the other anon, but maybe only make it level 1 of the ability and put the other ones behind leveling.
>NO FUN ALLOWED
>NERF NERF NERF
I noticed this too as I wrote it, but the only other way would be to tweak the enemies so they don't get affected by Magnet. But if half the enemies aren't affected by Magnet, it's a lot weaker. I would rather it still be a universal tool, but at least reduce the frequency of usage.
Or you can just leave the game as it is. Its combat is already perfect.
The stuff I listed is bad balancing. The game isn't perfect when 90% of all encounters can be solved in the same manner. If you love the game so much you should be wanting it to be better, anon.
Remakes are cringe bro
Nobody is talking about remakes, are you 12?
Who uckin cares it's been 20 years
So you are underage ok. You need to learn to read a reply chain before saying some completely irrelevant stuff.
And? People don't seem to mind as its considered the best combat in the series.
>And?
There's no and. It's bad balancing, improving the balancing means improving the game. There is zero reason for you to be against improving the game.
There's a hundred reasons to be against it but I won't be getting into that in this chat.
99 of those hundred would be you hating to be forced to use one of the other 30 options the game presents you.
>improving the balancing means improving the game
No it doesn't.
You just want to nerf things you don't like.
I genuinely think you are too stupid to understand the point.
dodge cancel
there's a million things they need to change but that's the one i would've demanded
It's called consequence, pretty important for a good action game.
there's no consequences in kh2. you have endless options to mash through the game. you can cancel into reflect, a fully invincible move much much better than the dodge roll. you have full invincibility on limits. you can cancel into drive which is also fully invincible and recovers all your hp. you can mash RCs as a cancel which are almost all invincible and interrupt the enemy's attack.
but you can't use the dodge roll after an attack. it's completely backwards design. i genuinely don't think they had played any action games before they started working on it.
>Make a better Valor form, e.g. give it a counter and the ability to counterattack from it like Limit form
>Make levelling up forms less tedious
>Make MP Rage restore MP when hitting enemies like KH1, to reward aggression during MP recharge instead of running like a pussy
>Make the rest of the game Cave of Remembrace-tier level and mob fight design
there are no non-autistic functioning adults who like this series.
Let's be real 2 was DESIGNED to be simpler and for babies. But at least they added super bosses for when you grew up and wanted a little more.
Y'know KH1gays keep saying to use magic
Well I am
And it barely does any damage
I'm LV50 with 7MP on Proud Mode and it takes two Blizzagas to take out a Red Nocturne.
If you actually want magic to be viable, you HAVE to spec entirely into magic. That's the part they're leaving out. If you aren't, then the damage your magic does frankly isn't worth it compared to melee combos, and that MP is better spent on Cure, especially with the enemy damage on Proud.
The damage storage trick only really works on LV1, as well.
Use strike raid then it also uses MP and is basically a STR magic attack
>7MP
Magic damage scales with your MP bar, anon. Stack as many accessories you have and use an MP boosting Keyblade.
>Magic damage scales with your MP bar, anon.
what the frick I never knew that
Does it say so ingame?
t. pretty much only used cure except on special occasions back when I played this
>Does it say so ingame?
Frick no lol. I had to find that out the hard way while farming Pink Agaricus.
I was wondering why my stop only lasted a short while, then I read that the time an enemy is stopped is tied to your MP bar same goes for the damage of all spells.
I believe it technically does, but only in the stats menu. It's like how 2's status menu shows how to level the forms, only if you go into it and highlight your cursor over the form. Both 1 and 2 really liked hiding information from the player which I think there's so much confusion to this day.
Yeah, I know it scales. That's why I mentioned how much MP I have.
This is a normal amount of MP for this point of the game for someone who isn't investing entirely into a magic build.
Basically, you either get good melee damage, or good magic damage. You can't have both
>You can't have both
That is why Ultima exists. It's really the only one that balances both out, and once you have Ultima you automatically have a bunch of MP/Strength boosting accessories too. I really like that about KH1
Get yourself Shiva Belt in Colosseum by using Blizzaga on the Braziers. It'll boost your MP.
>Get yourself Shiva Belt in Colosseum by using Blizzaga on the Braziers.
That gives you a gummi block, I just did it the other day
Or did they really make two stages of reward for Blizzara and Blizzaga?
>Or did they really make two stages of reward for Blizzara and Blizzaga?
hehe go and find out
I always felt that magic wasn't really worth it as soon as you get Divine Rose especially in final mix. you could pump max MP with accessories and Diamond Dust but sliding dash into slapshot is so much fun. I'd rather save the magic for aero/cure/gravity/stop and do mainly physical damage
Combat is better so game is better. It's really that simple. Skip cutscenes for both obviously.
I agree completely, I really don`t get the appeal of KH2.
It was meant to be easier Kingdom Hearts with more story and cutscenes and crazy plotline.
KH2 was literally MEANT to be easy baby Kingdom Hearts and I am tired of pretending it wasn't. Sure they made it harder in Final Mix at the end of the game but nevertheless it was meant to be easier Kingdom Hearts. As a consequence it is less of a classic than KH1 but still good.
KH1 really was an exceptional JRPG for its time. So much so that its carried the series on it back for over a decade. KH2 cannot compete idc what any gayget says. I was there when KH1 was released. It was something special. KH2 is but a cheap imitation. Don't even get me started on 3.
>KH1
>Good level design
>play kh1 on proud
>starts out kinda tough
>eventually get leaf bracer and second chance
>game is now easy as frick
I always wondered why they changed the MP system in 2 but now I get it
They made heal more punishing but at the same time you are supposed to use magic a bunch before casting heal and recharging. It works but I also like KH1 system
Leaf bracer wasn't in the original
Proud mode wasn't in the original either.
there's an ebb and flow with how they did it in 2 thanks to the drive gauge and how it fill faster while on mp recharge
you're never truly out of options but you have to vary things up
Level design: 1>2
Combat: 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1
That's why everyone sucks off KH2FM
As a kid I used to think this but as an adult I realize, no, 1 is in fact all around better.
And you fail to realize you're still a kid.
>combat
Funny because I think KH1 has by far the better enemy/mob design.
We already had this post
And I’ll repeat it as many times as I want to.
2’s combat is insanely overrated.
What’s the point of all those options if there’s never an incentive to use them? Also, most of the boss fights rely too heavily on QTEs and gimmicks.
1’s slower and more methodical combat where the RPG mechanics actually matter is better. It’s an ARPG afterall— Not an action game.
>What’s the point of all those options if there’s never an incentive to use them?
>didn't play on critical/lv1
>Also, most of the boss fights rely too heavily on QTEs and gimmicks
You didn't play the game.
KH1 is the only good entry.
KH3 exists so you are wrong.
Even has the BEST story too.
Is there any mod that tweaks the difficulty of 2? I'd like to play something in-between critical and cutting-your-limbs-off difficult. So some of the stuff mentioned above
>Reaction command timing
>Reflect nerf
>Keyblade rebalancing
>Rework drive leveling
>muh level design
Both underwater levels sucked, but I do prefer Ursula in 1. That said both games have linear means of progression in-level, the same shitty gummy segments but arguably done better in 2 without the warp homosexualry. Alice is shit, Halloween town is about as okay in both versions.
But when I think of “better” level design I still think of empty libraries and puzzle rooms in KH1 and trinity limit spots.
I wouldn’t say that’s “better” when it’s a way to mask keeping players from the intended path.
>I wouldn’t say that’s “better” when it’s a way to mask keeping players from the intended path
That’s a perfectly valid way of designing levels, though.
Compared to say, OoT, I’d rather the focus be key abilities with use in combat vs a red-blue-green marker system that’s only there to mark key areas.
Frick, even the spell doors in traverse town make more sense than TL.
Fine doesn’t mean good, it passes. Though.
>the focus be key abilities with use in combat
Magic in KH1 is used just for that.
Magic isn’t the key focus on all progression checks.
>That said both games have linear means of progression in-level
This is flat out untrue. There’s tons of little optional shit in KH1 that you can go through the entire game without knowing.
Optional =/= progression
What is even the argument, both games have missable super bosses, ultima, Pooh pages etc.
>it’s a way to mask keeping players from the intended path
At the end of the day, no matter how open ended you make a level, there will always be a degree of going from point A to B. I still prefer it when there’s multiple ways of getting to B and I’m rewarded for thinking outside the box though.
2 doesn’t even have any hidden secrets. The closest is the Orchicalcum+ chest in TWTNW (which I’ll admit is quite clever in its placement).
But it’s not that open ended.
Kingdom Hearts 3 has the best story, level design, and gameplay and I am tired of pretending it doesn't.
Nobody said you had to pretend to be a non-moron, moron
The problem with this series is a problem that plagues the entire JRPG genre tbh. The go way over the top with combat now. They sneak in a plethora of ways to make the game easy. They just throw too much shit at the wall for the sake of making the game easier and providing what amounts to porn basically. You get too much too soon. I just want a basic well thought out combat system which rewards me for sticking with the game. Kh1 nailed that. But investors come in and say "we gotta go bigger" and it just ends up ruining it.
The experimentation KH does is something I like and dislike. On the one hand it's sad that its not super consistent between titles but its also cool they try different things and there's something about each game I like.
Crazy that they copied DDD mechanic for mechanic in 3 but then didn't even include a triple triad esque card minigame to have some COM in it as well
>KH1: Boring stale Disney Classic wannabe
>KH2: Boring emo bullshit story with muh good boy sora
>KH3: Riku Replica kino
Game-play formula of KH1 is watch a cut-scene and then wonder around in a Maze till you find the exact room that triggers the next story cut-scene all while havin to do awkward platforming.
KH2 realized people dont care about platforming so they toned it down in favor of better combat and levels designed to be more like battle arenas than platforming chalanges. Levels in KH2 are more straightforward.
KH3D finally refined the platforming enough to put it back in to the game and KH3 inherited some of that platforming elements.
You could say that but I think KH2 was just made for kids. They made it easier for the noob kids to enjoy. Now that we all grew up they decided frick it let's make it interesting again.
>I think KH2 was just made for kids
And KH1 wasn't?
That's fricked up
Yeah they both were for kids but KH2 was meant to be easier. But once you become an adult 1 feels more classic and 2 is good but it was meant to be easy basically.
Have you actually played HK2 on harder difficulties.
KH is borderline devil may cry on proud mode.
And legit harder than DMC on Critical.
None of the people that are bashing KH2 in this thread have ever played it on critical.
>KH1 was totally made for adults
Imagine actually fricking thinking this, holy frick KH1/KH Black folk are fricking DELUSIONAL
>in favor of better combat and levels designed to be more like battle arenas than platforming chalanges
When the enemy encounters are lackluster as hell, that doesn’t really help much.
DDD has the worst fricking levels. I hated that damn game so much. I fricking abhor flowmotion.
No one cares.
The arenas in KH3 are so fricking bad compared to KH2. The part where you fight multiple-bosses in the same brown rock arena was soul-suckingly lame. The World That Never Was had such cool looking environments for all the fights. Scala Ad Caelum was cool but the floaty aspect just made it shit
yeah KH3 worlds are honestly so fricking bland especially visually like Keyblade graveyard is ass and Scala Ad Caelum is pretty but its no Hollow Bastion or World that Never Was
that had a sort of eeriness to them
I'll take 2's weird gimmicks like moonlight or falling boulders over 20 hours of the same boring jump every day of the week.
For all of the cool options and interactions KH2 has that people like to talk about when it comes to propping up the game, a lot of people forget that a lot of said options are ever hardly utilized by the vast majority due to the game failing to provide challenges that demand more tactical approaches due to either overcentralized tools (RCs) or horrific balance (Reflect).
It just drops summons and limits on you with no explanation of what they're good for and hell, even Drive Forms are barely explained even if you do read through the abilities. Now, I’m all for a game just allowing you to experiment with whatever in order to find good uses (some of my favorite games are like this) but when the enemy/mob design doesn’t incentivize you to take advantage of these aspects, then it feels like wasted potential.
KH2's flow is nice from a game feel perspective but all too often it comes at the expense of depth and meaningful decision-making. A bunch of options are usable in many situations because they're all so damn strong that it doesn't matter that much how you play. The reason you can use lots of tools in KH2 is because the game is not all that difficult. It rarely pushes you to consider your strategies outside of the additional FM content. Hell, some of the most complained-about moments in KH2 are when the game suddenly decides it's *not* time to press X until the enemies die and also doesn't give you a Reaction Command for an easy win, like the Hot Rods. I basically never used Summons or Limits in my Critical playthrough of KH2FM and I still beat it.
>a lot of said options are ever hardly utilized by the vast majority due to the game failing to provide challenges that demand more tactical approaches due to either overcentralized tools or horrific balance
Anon you're just talking about every KH game
I’d argue KH1 does a pretty good job at that since mob encounters can come in a variety of different patterns and enemy archetypes. Large Bodies are a very good example. When you first meet them, you learn that a good way to get past them is by using your magic to bypass the fact that they block attacks from the front. So what does the game do to make it so that they’re not just a cakewalk? Pair them up with other enemy types that they synergize well with. In Olympus Coliseum, for example, they get paired up with elemental rhapsodies that absorb magic of a particular type and these guys are placed right in front of the Large Bodies so you gotta get up close and personal
That's cool. Bet you 90% of players see that encounter and go
>Press x on the rhapsodies
>jump around the large body and press x some more
>cure as needed
Just like they did for every other encounter in 1.
This. Watching casuals play, they think magic outside of cure and aero is ass by the end of the game, and sometimes thunder if you're lucky. The game doesn't encourage their use much outside puzzles, and you can just mash X and be fine.
You say this like every KH doesn't have some dominate strategy that trivializes the majority of mob encounters. Half of 1's combat is not using the terrible last hit of your melee combo and once you get blizzard the game may as well be over. BBS has surge/mine, and 3's quickstep lets you punish anything any enemy or boss does from anywhere in the arena.
Are we really pretending every single room of Monstro or Neverland can't be cleared by just mashing attack?
>Are we really pretending every single room of Monstro or Neverland can't be cleared by just mashing attack?
Large Bodies and Darkballs say hi.
You do know that dodge rolling behind a large body and mashing X counts as clearing it by mashing X, right?
If you wanna waste time and be lame as shit about it, sure. Magic, parries, and just jumping to attack its head or the sides will do you much better.
The point is you can definitely mash X on Large Bodies.
Oh so wasting time with suboptimal mashing is fine with 1 lets you do it, but bad when 2 lets you do it?
When mashing is the best option to get you through the majority of encounters in 2, yes. Especially since Reaction Commands exist.
Its not the best option though in most encounters. Yes its strong but so is mashing attack in 1.
>Shadows are better dealt using fire since it meaties them coming out of the floor where as they'll often just re-enter the floor if you're mashing
>Centaurs will mulch you with the spin if you mash in their face
>Samurai and Gamblers can have negative effects on RC
>Statues reward you for timing your hits rather than mashing
>Mashing against hot rods enrages them
Pirates, dancers, toy boxes, I could go on. The only fights where mashing is optimal tend to be spectacle fights like 1k heartless or early game shitters like knights who also get mulched by mashing attack in 1.
KH2 has an entire segment when you can just mash X and triangle. Hell, not even just X.
https://x.com/lightning254/status/1791807534677790864?s=46&t=hHMkRZSCKFxMe1Gq_aHQhg
>we now interrupt KH2 to bring you Dynasty Warriors!
And it's the best moment in the series. Absolute kino.
Yeah, if you enjoy having keys jingling in front of your face.
Damn. They really got me there, now I'll have to jump and mash attack. Which the game even rewards you for doing against darkballs for parrying the bite.
2 was all focus on the combat which mogs 1s. I still prefer 1 overall but I respect 2 going all in on combat
JUST
DROP
THE
GODDAMN
POWDER
FRICK YOU
If you aren't getting 1 power AT LEAST per Agaricus, you aren't doing the gimmick correctly.
I was shocked how many that qt dropped me, by the end I had about 5 more then I actually needed while never getting mroe than 87 hits.
Actually had to google if they increased the drop rate for the PC version lol
The real chad move is farming the Atlantica one rather than the Deep Jungle one.
Is it even possible to get 100 hits on the Atlantica Agaricus?
It requires an autistic amount of planning, but yes:
That's not 100 hits. It was only 61.
The level design is much worse but the combat and bosses are 100x better.
I think the good level design for 2 really kicks into gear in the second half of the game, I don't think it ever quite approaches the open-endedness of 1 but the cavern, Wtnw, and pirates have some pretty peak areas. Helps that the combat is a massive improvement action-wise over 1
>massive improvement combat-wise
Never got this meme. KH2’s combat felt more like a sidegrade to me than an objective upgrade, when KH1 beating it out when it comes to enemy/mob design and utilization of RPG elements and experimentation.
Its not a meme. KH2 has way better combat than KH1. This is not an opinion. It is fact.
>KH2 has way better combat than KH1
Do the enemies actually take advantage of that or…?
I feel like people who claim that KH2 is better just because it has flashier combos are fundamentally missing the point considering how they go for different directions in terms of design. In all honesty, I consider KH1’s overall game design to be much stronger than KH2’s.
IMO, KH1 is a masterclass in game design. Not because it excels in any one particular area, but because of how it’s good enough in all of its areas that it ends up creating something far greater than the sum of its parts.
It’s about the closest thing you can get to a perfect game where every aspect of the game just works in harmony with one another.
The game’s elements synergise so well that there’s even perfect ludonarrative harmony between the story and gameplay.
It's a sidegrade up. KH2 is a better action game than KH1 is a beat em up.
>sidegrade up
have a nice day.
You first Black person.
All action games are beat-em-ups, dude. KH2 is one especially since it has nothing BUT combat in that game.
The only reason that Port Royal is well designed is because it’s actually designed around the moonlight gimmick, which is cool as frick. I think the only KH2 world that comes close to KH1 in terms of design is Twilight Town.
Twilight Town is legitimately well designed thanks to it having multiple ways to get to places and the underground tunnels and trains connecting all the areas. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s often put up there with KH1 Hollow Bastion as one of the best worlds in the series.
Whenever I see KH1 vs KH2 conversations, it's always people sucking off a difficulty that didn't exist in KH2's original release.
Why is that?
>that didn't exist in KH2's original release
It exists now.
You are a moron.
But it's not KH2. It's KH2FM.
And? ITS THE SAME FRICKING THING AT THIS POINT IN TIME. NO ONE IS PLAYING KH2. EVERYONE IS PLAYING 2FM.
KH1FM exists.
I will never consider it the same when 2FM came out years later, had like a longer dev cycle than between 1 and 2, and like doubled the game's content.
2 and 2FM are fundamentally different games to me.
???
But an FM version of KH1 exists so this is literally a low IQ take?
This is kind of interesting because KH2FM was modchip-only until the 2010s when the average person's PC became powerful enough to easily emulate PS2. Since every physical EN PS2 copy of KH2 that most people played wasn't Final Mix. It's kind of crazy to think more people played KH2Final Mix than KH2
It's crazy how divisive this game series is. The only reason I can think of is the generation gap between people that played when it first came out and new gays that picked it up like a decade later.
People were fighting about which game was better as soon as KHII came out
Usually there's some kind of agreement among fans that one entry just does things better than the others. Not with KH
I do think you will be a hater only if you are a new gay. The games were made for kids. The level design IS genius for what it is a little kiddie rpg. But instead you have new gays complaining it's not dark souls. Yeah no shit dark souls is an adult game. KH is still great as an adult if you can appreciate childhood
I played KH1 when it was released. I was in my 20s at the time.
I loved it. I have played every game in the series. KH1 is my least favorite. I fricking hate the camera.
Camera is one of the easiest things to b***h about. Come back when you grow up
Did you miss where I said I was in my 20s when KH1 first came out?
I'm fricking 43 now
Pro tip homosexual. Whenever anyone says KH1, they mean 1FM.
Whenever anyone says KH2, they mean 2FM.
Stop being autistic little homosexuals.
My issue is that KH1FM added nothing that people who say "KH1 is my favorite" talk about.
People who say "KH2 is my favorite" talk almost exclusively about content added in KH2FM.
I said stop being an autistic homosexual.
DO IT.
Why not just admit that KH2 was shit and that you only like KH2FM then?
see
>thread talking about design differences between KH1 and KH2
>KH1 positive topics are always things that existed in the base game and were unaffected by 1FM
>KH2 positive topics are almost (because Twilight Town) always things that did not exist in the base game and were only added in 2FM
All I'm asking you, and other "KH2 fans", to do is acknowledge that KH2FM > KH1 > KH2. Why is it so hard?
see
Ah so it's because you never played these games as they released despite your claims of being some oldgay who played the games as they released in your 20s as a bad way to justify your opinion, meaning you've never actually played KH2 as it existed for years for most fans.
Got it.
You are perhaps the only person on Earth autistic enough to care about delineating the vanilla releases from the Final Mixes in 2024
Personally, I never saw much of a difference between 2FM and 2.
It’s literally just 2, except they haphazardly slapped a band-aid over most of 2’s problems. They’re the same game in the same way that 1 and 1FM are.
homie, most of the KH2 dick sucking on here COMES from the original. Everything in 2FM is literally an afterthought.
>most of the KH2 dick sucking on here COMES from the original
That is some bullshit and you know it.
Every single KH2 fan says some version of "yes, it's just mashy boring fights in big flat rooms for most difficulties, but Critical Mode is a ton of fun and the best KH experience period."
Because once 2FM is out, it's out. It's pointless to look back to the inferior version.
KH2 has the same combat system, and Sephiroth. 2FM adds more Sephiroths.
Okay, but the average KH2 player didn't need to learn any of the more nuanced combat mechanics until 2FM where they got all those Sephiroths and the one difficulty mode that is good, according to them.
I just don't think the statement that all the praised parts of 2 were in the base game is true.
You needed to learn some to beat Sephiroth, which is in 2.
I mean, people love the combat system, which is largely unchanged from the original release.
All FM did was add features and difficulty that pushed players to utilize that system and realize its potential.
KH1 was better before the Final Mix changes and additions. All they did was recolor the heartless to look worse, add a bunch of new shit gimmick enemies, and completely rape the balance of the keyblades.
This Anon gets it. Secret heartless are not that interesting, forcing them into mandatory Synthesis to get to Ultima Weapon, is also moronic, the recolors to making the dark blue and purple heartless to brownish yellow or bright colors is garbage. It's not worth it for some extra abilities, extra cutscenes, and one optional fight. The best I can say is that you can skip through cutscenes now, and even that's a problem because they forgot to flag certain scenes as skippable.
i mean i like 1 more than 2 but i wouldn't say "level design" is really a strength of either of them
Yeah the real strength is fart design haha kingdom farts
>Playing KH1
>Having fun
>Get to the little mermaid world
it's not that fricking bad
that being said I am always super ready to get out of there and onto halloweentown
You just have to concede and use magic.
I never saw the problem people had with KH1 Atlantica. The swinging controls are literally identical to the flying controls, Ariel is literally the best party member in the game, and you have a shitton of magic to make things easier. In fact, Atlantica in general rewards you for using magic as much as possible.
At least in KH2 Altantica’s case, I can see people being let down by the fact that it’s a glorified minigame world and also extremely cringe.
Because Atlantica has the worst boss fight.
It's a shame because the first Ursula fight was kinda kino
For me it’s the other way around.
Giant Ursula is actual kino, but regular Ursula’s a bit gimmicky. People who complain about Giant Ursula don’t seem to realise that your party members and various different magic spells are a thing.
I was surprised by how not shit it was. I disliked Neverland and Halloween town much more.
I dont hate it but it's my least favorite level to go through. Too many samey blue cave areas.
No sir YOU are the moron
kh1s camera is pure unfiltered dogshit
>picked Proud mode for my first KH1 playthrough
>picked Staff and Shield
>dropped Sword
>level 52 and still don't have slide dash
WHAT THE FRICK BROS THAT IS NOT ONLY AN ICONIC MOVE IT'S PRACTICALLY A NECESSITY. NO ONE TOLD ME I'D HAVE TO BE END GAME TO GET IT NOW. Thank frick you start KH2 with it from what I remember
>picked Staff and Shield
Gee Billy, your mom lets you take TWO POWERS?
>picked Staff and Shield
You only drop one of them so you essentially take two. Think about it. I took Staff if you want to be pedantic.
KH1 level design sucks ass. 2 isn't better but it recognized the combat was more important and just built a bunch open flat rooms to enjoy that in instead of wasting time and effort on something that isn't really important to the enjoyment of the game. Instead of a lot cramped, repetitive, shitty rooms like KH1. Level design in that game peaks in fricking Traverse town and goes down hill from there.
>he says when Hollow Bastion is one of the best worlds in the series
Filtered
Hollow Bastion is fun yes. But I'm tired of people pretending its not a long ass hallway.
>multiple rooms and hidden paths for you to explore
>hallway
???
>hidden paths
All of those "hidden paths" are literally just puzzles with treasure chests behind them. There's more of a path in my fricking closet.
And that’s still more than KH2, funnily enough.
Yes because they realized people didn't like that shit.
The only people who liked it is Ganker who has the opposite opinion of everyone else in the world.
There’s plenty of people online who liked KH1’s level design more than 2’s if you actually care to look.
nta but your standards are impossibly high. If KH1 Hollow Bastion isn't level design, then what is?
Do you even look at your own picture? Every place in that picture goes to one other place.
There's no multiple paths to take. Its all one long path to the chapel.
Okay I get it. You seem to think interconnected convoluted maps is the meaning of level design. Also I think don't actually remember playing the game and you saw the numbers 1-13 on the image and took it as being literally linear because it's not a waltz through a bunch of empty hallways like you imply
No. I've played through hollow bastion like a hundred times, so I KNOW its linear.
>No. I've played through hollow bastion like a hundred times, so I KNOW its linear.
Of course the game will be linear if you speedrun through it and skip everything. But this is turning into a semantics argument where we argue the meaning of linear and open world . Also, you never haven't a game with "level design" yet.
where is this from? is this a fan made minimap for KH?
>s this a fan made minimap for KH?
yeah. Kind of show how good the level design was that it didn't even need an ingame minimap because most rooms were mnemonically distinct
It's lame as hell. The most fun in that level is the novelty of having to rely on beast to do everything for you at first. Everything after is just walking to the next boss and having to get through the dull shitty puzzles and lift rides to get there.
Beast only did a little for me since I used magic
>level charm
>design
>KH1
>Level design
homie what!
>that's not true! The gameplay may be weak and sometimes the levels suck
>but I've learned that deep down there is a kino that never gets old
>so you have come this far and still you understand NOTHING
>every game is for kids every plot returns to CRINGE
>that moment when you realized the Kingdom Hearts originals are Final Fantasy characters
Even the color scheme is familiar to FFX
yeah I remember thinking there were a lot of similarities between KH1 and FFX visually the first time I played it. That Ansem thing really does look like something out of FFX's boss lineup.
it's such a shame that the first 2 worlds you visit in KH1 are the worst
KH1 has better level design than FFX there I said it.
Not Twitter homosexual
1 had better music, level design(not the jungle) and felt more like an adventure traversing Disney worlds. Story was more fun too.
2 had better gameplay and gameplay is the most important part of a video game.
>better gameplay
Flashier combos ≠ better gameplay
Gameplay was the only thing it did better but I still think 1 is better
Exactly this is basically all I have ever said. Nobody is saying it is the best game in existence unless it's your personal fav.
1 soul is infinitely higher than 2 and it has a better story.
2 has a better combat system but the worlds suck and you have to play them twice.
One thing I hated about 2 was that you didn't have the time to get immersed in the atmosphere of each world. The levels in 1 were twice as long and you really felt the difference when you moved to a new one.
>infinitely
No, maybe a bit more. But both are incredibly soulful.
I often say that the highs of 2 are phenomenally high— Like some of the greatest moments in any JRPG ever level high. The lows however, are pretty fricking low. A lot of the Disney worlds are movie retreads and pointless fluff that don’t even pretend to connect to the larger plot in most cases, and the dialogue becomes extremely cringy in alot of places. There’s also the cutscene direction, which is filled with countless awkward silences and poorly timed gags.
>The levels in 1 were twice as long
Once you know what you're doing, this is simply untrue. The worlds in 1 are actually extremely short. The length primarily comes from how long it takes you to navigate to the correct cutscene triggers.
KHII has full second visits of (almost) every world, with many more characters making the worlds feel properly populated, and you literally spend 2-3 hours (with cutscenes) in one world at the start of the game
You morons will be arguing about this shitty game until the day you fall over and die
And you will be here, reading our posts.
Honestly I play both sides for the lulz
Hopefully because you actually like all the games and not because you're a c**t, right?
Bring it back
KINO
>Devs design this elaborate and complex area with multiple hidden secrets and and wacky appearance
>have said area literally transform into a boss that you have to fight
>once you defeat the boss, the mansion disappears, never to be accessible in the playthrough again
>prior to the rereleases, some items in the manor were even permanent missables
I honestly find it wild that devs can put so much effort into an area, only for it to become inaccessible after a while.
wasn't that just the norm back in the day? Games didn't really let you backtrack and shit became permanently missable between chapters
I'm clicking the free download button but nothing is happening. The image just gets bigger and smaller.
Imagine Kingdom Hearts: Dark Souls
Dark Soul doesn't have real level design it linear hallway neither does Resident Evil it's all rooms and hallways not levels.
kh1 does have a more platformy type of level design, which is nice for that game. however KH2 is still superior. The crown gems you can discover throughout kh2fm are placed well, and there's still a few kissable chests in tight spots. the cavern of remembrance is the only area in the game that pretty much beats anything the first game had in regards to level design. yes the open spaces are big but there is still soul there.
>The crown gems you can discover throughout kh2fm are placed well
Anon, those are more band-aids to try and cover up 2’s lacking level design than anything substantial.
>there's still a few kissable chests
>and there's still a few kissable chests in tight spots
Does the Linux version work on 7800xt?
>playing kh1 again
>get to Halloween Town
God, I fricking hate Oogie Boogie and always have
You can block his dice and send them back to him. Actually makes the fight sort of fun tbh
It's not even the fight. It's just Nightmare Before Christmas in general. I never liked claymation. I was disgusted by James and the Giant Peach when I was little.
mental illness
????
>You can block his dice and send them back to him.
no way. how do you do that? do you guard them?
or just hit them
I've been playing this game for 20+ years and I still learn new shit that's in it
I guess that's the power of the keyblade
Is it too late for me to join in?
In the thread? This is like the third one today. We are approaching the end of euro hours which is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.
Forgot imagine
enemies in KH1 had a clear identity to them
in KH2 they're a bit more squishy but they still have a clear identity to them, only reinforced with reaction commands
in KH3 they're just big piñatas to pop because they're all the same, have ni identities and sora is too mobile to compensate for the floatiness of the combos
I literally don't understand these kh1 enemy arguments. I was spamming magic all game with little thought outside of a handful of fights