Basically in the original timeline you GAVE the white tome to the professor (in the future), which let them keep their own book (that they used as a key for the time machine). But when you came to realize that fixed event in the lake, you EXCHANGED the white book, thus the new timeline changed. Anon is implying they couldn't complete the time machine because of that, but in all honesty it might just be semantics.
Yeah I think so to. Exchanging is a form of giving. But that would mean the book they had was not the original copy they cherished (since they gave it to you). Which is not a big deal but may be confusing to some.
If SV has proven anything, vast majority of people don't know what the frick is going on with time loops anyways. People are STILL claiming Arven said it's fake.
We don't know this. You're relying on complete fanfiction to justify theory. Just as equally as they suggest they can go home to read and spend time with Arven, they just as equally suggest they can build and AI, a machine, and more research, especially considering they say Briar's Book will inspire them (time travel instead of timelinehomosexualry). The whole point is that you're looking at a pre-insanity professor who didn't make that decision yet.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>We don't know this
Yes we do.
The professor at the lake trades away his book, that they loved since they were a child.
The professor in our timeline has a specific book in their lab with an ID encoded in it, that the AI says they loved since they were a child.
There's a blatant contradiction, meaning it's not the same professor, which is why the game has multiple lines of dialogue explaining that they're not necessarily from the same timeline. The line that says "I'll go home to read a good book" is obviously implying it's a different professor who drops their obsession and doesn't go down the same dark path ours did.
>B-B-BUT THE JAPANESE SAID
YWNBJ
5 months ago
Anonymous
>The professor in our timeline has a specific book in their lab with an ID encoded in it, that the AI says they loved since they were a child.
Here's where you frick up. The AI specifically says they loved that VOLUME as a child, not that copy. It's clearly intentional.
Only thing I disagree with that diagram on the right is the implication that Heath never actually encountered the paradoxes and was just copying what the professor told him.
I think the paradoxes summoned by the professor via the time machine probably WERE sent to the 200 years ago briefly with the power of tera crystals, due to Terapagos being awaken back then, and Heath did actually see them before Terapagos went to sleep and the paradoxes disappeared, returning to present day.
Basically in the original timeline you GAVE the white tome to the professor (in the future), which let them keep their own book (that they used as a key for the time machine). But when you came to realize that fixed event in the lake, you EXCHANGED the white book, thus the new timeline changed. Anon is implying they couldn't complete the time machine because of that, but in all honesty it might just be semantics.
Yo, I think I get it now, thanks anon(s). Although I think there's more than just Timeline A and B, it could even have way, way more layers, like 10 or more. Maybe the Violet/Scarlet book was very barren at first and then kept getting more through the professor's influence or some bullshit (like adding more paradox mons) by going through several loops. Could even be the reason why the copies of the book had blurry text on the page about Terapagos, something about the timeloop is distorting it or whatever.
Anyway, point is, the professor that we met at the lake is definitely not the same professor that died in our timeline, or at least won't end up the same once they're back. The prof gave us their unique(!) copy of the book - the very same book that, in our timeline, Arven personally has given us. It even has the exact same item description. And that book was made the literal key to stop the time machine. The prof has made it the key (since they still had it) and we used it to stop the machine, using the mechanism they created.
In our timeline, Arven has found it in the lighthouse lab which, again, means that the professor of our timeline did NOT give it away - even though they definitely had Briar's book. Otherwise the note in the depths wouldn't exist in our timeline. But it wasn't us that gave him Briar's book, it was either someone else or another iteration of us.
God, this shit is insane. I'm not even mad that they barely explained shit because this is so interesting and fricked up. I couldn't believe when I saw Turo in front of me.
How many fricking loops are there? Are we stuck in a loop? What is Terapagos endgoal? Is it going through timeloops to "fix" history? Is it trying to make the world a better place by changing timelines? Is it just fricking around? It's so fricking strange and makes barely any fricking sense. But I love it. And I hope that we maybe created a second timeline where Arven gets a happier life.
The raidon in that scene was adorable and heartbreaking at the same time. They were so happy to see them again. You can tell that they truly loved the professor.
God, yeah. It knew they were about to leave and were so sad. And the Raidon loving the prof so much makes me double sad because clearly they gave the Raidon so much more love and care than Arven could've even dreamed of. Why does GF torment me with such sad, messed up stories that are only implied and only hit you if you think about the implications? This gotta be Ohmori working through his trauma or some bullshit like that. It shouldn't be so depressing, and yet...
The Time Machine still didn’t pull Pokémon from different timelines and there is no alternative timeline. Timecucks still coping hard and at suicide watch. That’s why they are moving on to the Lacey bs.
But timetrannies are the ones insisting there's only one timeline. Imaginationgays are on the multiple timelines side because that would mean the paradoxes are not ACTUALLY from the past/future, but from different timelines. So no moronic shit like everything evolving from a dinosaur or into a robot.
Meanwhile Imaginationgays are yelling "B-BUT THEY SAY ITS GHOSTS" while just refusing to answer how that makes sense whenever anyone brings up the Professor's own journal entry about the meeting happening.
>collect pokemon from area zero crater after Heath's expedition concludes
How could those pokemon be in area zero for the professor to collect them if they are from alternative, prehistoric/futuristic-themed timelines?
>Got so mad at the other thread he made an incorrect infograph >Said graph clearly proves himself wrong as this Sada no longer has her childhood book that the AI took off her in our timeline but he refuses to believe this
Delusion
Wait so there's some kind of time travel but rather than closing the loop we make a good ending for another world? Then there's no fricking way the paradoxes lived in area zero when Heath went there
I should have phrased that last line better. The loop is not completed. It's a closed loop on the same timeline. There is no happy ending because the Professor we interact with is the one that wrote the journal about meeting us. >Then there's no fricking way the paradoxes lived in area zero when Heath went there
That's the fun part! Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Who knows! The professor just happened to find them.
They were brought through temporarily by Terapagos for some reason, and vanished when it went back to sleep (we know its own time-travel is limited via Heath/the Professor).
Except it isn't. Heath literally experiences the exact same thing you do in Kitikami. The crystals/Terrapagos have the power to displace time and space.
Because Terapagos does so with humans - Heath during his time-travel when he's given the page he doesn't remember writing, and the Professor in Kitikami (which we directly see it cause).
It then follows that if this is true for humans, it would be true for the Paradox 'mons, which is why they're never found after Heath's expedition.
Okay so us and the professor from another timeline meet in Kitakami, and Heath dreamed something and woke up with the page with his writing, so... the paradox pokemon were sent to Heath's times for a while just like that? That's nonsensically convenient
Heath describes what he assumes is a dream but we now know via the epilogue was the influence of Terapagos sending him through time to meet someone (we don't know who).
It then follows that this is exactly how it works for the Paradox 'mons pre-machine, which is why the expeditions after that point never found them either.
Terapagos and its crystals can't bring things through time/space permanantly that we've seen without being modified (ie; the time machine).
We don't have all the answers though.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Heath describes what he assumes is a dream but we now know via the epilogue was the influence of Terapagos sending him through time to meet someone (we don't know who).
That's the fairest assumption, yes.
>It then follows that this is exactly how it works for the Paradox 'mons pre-machine
This is the part that you are forcing.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>This is the part that you are forcing.
Fair, but what's the most likely explanation?
Either "oh they just vanished within like a month idk" or "Terapagos, who obviously brought them, sent them back when it went to sleep"?
Its the easiest way to reconcile the Paradox 'mons vanishing based on what we're told.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Terapagos, who obviously
Dude I'm politely avoiding the use of the word headcanon for the sake of a sane discussion, but you aren't making it easy.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Alright, fair. Dropping that angle, then, I could put it down to that being part of the Paradox. We don't know who Heath talked to, and we don't know who brought the Paradox 'mons in to begin with.
>he's given the page he doesn't remember writing
Considering we change history and make a new timeline by speaking to the professor, I think they did the same thing when they were talking to Heath. Showing Heath his notes on Tera because he wrote them in their timeline, inspiring the professor. He acknowledges that it’s his own writing but has no knowledge of having written it. It’s not that Terapagos makes you forget what you did in those meetings either, because the professor clearly remembers getting Briar’s book from the protagonist clearly. So it can’t be that Heath just wrote the notes in his “dream” and then forgot.
The professor gave Heath the notes of the alternate Heath that wrote them.
It's one timeline. The professor isn't aware you met them there because of the journal they had written in the future. >But what the frick does that have to do with Terapagos ability to manipulate type matchups and tera allowing you to change type?
Nothing, really. Terastal energy is a macguffin. It basically lets you do whatever the plot needs you to do. We don't know the upper limits of it but we do know that it allows you to terastalize your pokemon and enhance technology past limits of modern technology.
>The professor isn't aware you met them there because of the journal they had written in the future.
How can anyone write a journal about something they were not aware of?
Anon, you're talking to the professor from 10 years ago. They're speculating on the circumstances on how you're speaking to one another. They're not aware that, in the future, they write about this moment in their secret lab. We find that journal, which is why you speak to them in the first place.
WHY DOES SANDY SHOCKS EXIST, Black person?
HOW DO SCREWS AND MAGNETS COME ABOUT WITHOUT HUMAN INVENTION???
NATURALLY OCCURING?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Magnemite and Magneton are depicted inside the Ruins of Alph.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Paradox pokemon aren't from our past or future but your argument is moronic, in the Pokemon world this shit is older than the human invention and the humans create those things based on the pokemon, not the other way around. See Conkeldurr
Headcanon, but Terapagos might be the source of all the energy, but what the energy is used for is like stem cells, it can be whatever. Reviving a Pokemon or using it as a massive weapon. Using it to send a meteor to a different timeline/dimension. Making pokermon bigger and use all that energy in all out attack. Access to Kaiju-tier modifications.
>alternate timelines vs. only one timeline
No, only the people that already adamantly believed it was time travel despite the evidence (old and new) debunking it.
It's mega timeline bullshit all over again where people who can't read interpret the exact opposite of what was actually presented in-game.
It's also in the lake where people saw ghosts of dead people and the professor is already dead before you met them. So people will say it was a illusion or that it was actually the professor time traveling without a time machine with turtle power and this discussion will never fricking end.
But it was the professor being brought from the past.
They literally write about being given the white book by a child in a strange land of sulfur. The only people who argue anything else are idiots who haven't played the game and read the journal.
The professor explicitly states they're pulling them from an alternative timeline, so they're more akin to ultra beasts being from a bizarro reality than their own world's past/future.
Okay but they didn't say that in our universe. The professor explicitly calls them Ancient/Future Pokemon in our main game. Could be Professors across timelines somehow only want to pull our timeline's paradoxes. (THEORY)
They say that's the IDEA, but that was before they got the time machine working, so its entirely possible that what they read in the book is what inspires them to actually look in the past/future.
Again, the translation is different but the japanese version uses the same exact word in both cases, the localization changes it.
>The professor explicitly states they're pulling them from an alternative timeline
Correction. They said that their original plan was to pull pokemon from alternative timelines. Which eventually became pulling mon from the past and future.
It's just the translation being inconsistent. In Japanese the professor states exactly the same thing as the AI saying "different points in the timeline" in the base game.
It's always been alternative time lines or multiverses. The real power of Terapagos is the power of Dreams. It can turn one's dream into reality. The professor wished to create a timeline with fantastic beasts to pull from and Terapagos did so. Kieran wished for a strong Pokémon which he got when it Tera formed. The player wished for a friend which is why we were able to capture it. It's power is literal dreams.
You're getting it backwards anon. The translation in the base game is the one that's inconsistent. In japanese, both the professor explaining the time machine and the professor in the lake use the same term 異なる時間軸, which directly translates to "different time axis/timelines". The base game just changed that to "different POINTS in the timeline" for whatever fricking reason.
I didn't get anything backwards, dumbass, all I said was that the translation was inconsistent. I didn't say one was correct over the other.
I agree that any normal person would understand 異なる時間軸 as "different timelines", but in the context of the professor contrasting that with 現代 (and using 古代 and 未来) it suggests that it's meant to be different points on the timeline (which is not necessarily incorrect, just that 異なる時間軸 is an unusual choice of words to represent that).
It's timelines.
Timelines have been canon since ORAS and arguably canon since Gen 1
Paradox Pokemon are not the past or future of mainline Pokemon timelines, they are Pokemon from alternate timelines where history diverged. It's convergent evolution on a multiverse scale.
Unless Time Travel gays wants to say that the Galar Birds are actually the past/future versions of the Kanto Birds or that Toadscool is a Past/future version of Tentacool
>Paradox Pokemon are not the past or future of mainline Pokemon timelines, they are Pokemon from alternate timelines where history diverged. It's convergent evolution on a multiverse scale.
So it's not time travel but it's timeLINES and they aren't from the past and future because they're from the past and future of alternate timelines so they don't count
It matters because it prevents the main timeline from becoming fricking stupid.
Stupid shit like weird dinosaur versions of Pokemon or all Pokemon becoming cyborgs in the future should be kept to moronic alternate timelines not the main timeline
>Stupid shit like weird dinosaur versions of Pokemon or all Pokemon becoming cyborgs in the future should be kept to moronic alternate timelines not the main timeline
This, it's so moronic that it should be an alternate timeline and even game freak knows that.
This is a giant fanfic post if I've ever seen one. EVEN IF Our universe's paradox's are from other timelines, they're from the past/future of those timelines. >galar birds
You're mistaking "we didn't get a good look at these until recently because they're so elusive" as "they're somehow completely unrelated" which is the antithesis of variants >Toadscool
this is actual convergence
The professor. You know, the same professor you consider a reliable source to tell you their from another timeline, and who's obviously changed their goal because of Briar's book, reinterpreting what the Paradox Pokemon are.
Imaginationgays now pivoting to "actually it's alternate timelines and that proves it's imagination" is truly baffling but shows how badly they were btfo
Literally this entire board has been infested by imaginationgays pushing their schizophrenia for months and when you people finally get btfo you make threads like this where you try and claim a win anyway. You people are fricking braindead.
Med, I won't fight your moronic ass. We are discussing other things here.
5 months ago
Anonymous
No no, what he said it quite literally exactly what we're seeing, even in this thread.
This, it can also explain why cavemen have pictures of cyclazar and not koraidon because it's just from another world. A lot of things in game makes sense if it's just alternative timelines.
That's easily explained by larger time skips anon. The evolution barely changed anything since humans were cavemen.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Anon timelines are not a new thing if you played sun/moon or Oras. Events can me mostly the same and still be different
5 months ago
Anonymous
Events can be mostly the same and still be a different timeline*
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not denying timelines are canon. Just that it's somehow what's at play here.
>We don't know this
Yes we do.
The professor at the lake trades away his book, that they loved since they were a child.
The professor in our timeline has a specific book in their lab with an ID encoded in it, that the AI says they loved since they were a child.
There's a blatant contradiction, meaning it's not the same professor, which is why the game has multiple lines of dialogue explaining that they're not necessarily from the same timeline. The line that says "I'll go home to read a good book" is obviously implying it's a different professor who drops their obsession and doesn't go down the same dark path ours did.
>B-B-BUT THE JAPANESE SAID
YWNBJ
Oh, so you're only selecting things that fit your intended timeline of events, completely ignoring the post you responded to. Convince me I should continue to legitimize your naonese by wasting my time arguing with you, since you clearly don't care about taking all facts into consideration.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>completely ignoring the post you responded to
Nope. It seems more like you're just seething hard at not paying enough attention to the game.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>not paying enough attention
Anon, I acknowledged everything you said and provided a counter. You threw everything others have said to you out the window and relied on selective proof for your arguments. Tell me again who actually didn't pay any attention to the game.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Anon, I acknowledged everything you said and provided a counter
No you didn't.
>The professor in our timeline has a specific book in their lab with an ID encoded in it, that the AI says they loved since they were a child.
Here's where you frick up. The AI specifically says they loved that VOLUME as a child, not that copy. It's clearly intentional.
>The AI specifically says they loved that VOLUME as a child,
Yes. Volume means book. They loved that book as a child.
> It's clearly intentional.
That there are different timelines, which is why the game explicitly says there are different timelines, yeah, it is.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>No you didn't.
ignoring my arguments like you did doesn't make them disappear anon. You can till respond to them properly >volume means book
it doesn't mean exact copy. it's more like "edition" >it's explicit
time travel is more explicit and is what the professor believes paradoxes are after already seeing them. The professor who hasn't even seen the paradoxes yet is of a lesser authority to speak about where they came from.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>it doesn't mean exact copy. it's more like "edition"
While I agree, I think its worth looking into whether or not the book has an identical description, w/having been signed as a kid.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>time travel is more explicit
Not him but why are you acting like time travel and multiple timelines are somehow mutually exclusive?
The professor originally thought paradoxes were just pokémon from other dimensions/timelines, they searched in those timelines but couldn't find anything interesting.
Then, after talking to the protag they realized they were also from different POINTS in those timelines. Ie, when they just searched for other dimensions/timelines, still in the present-day of those timelines, they couldn't find the paradoxes in the book. But when they changed their goal and started searching for the PAST or FUTURE of those timelines, lo and behold, there were the paradoxes from the book.
The time machine doesn't only grab things from other timelines or only from the past and future, it grabs things from both at the same time.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>ignoring my arguments
I didn't. Stop seething.
>it doesn't mean exact copy
In this context, it does. "Volume" literally means book. "Edition" is used more for when you're talking about a version of a book but not a specific physical copy.
>time travel is more explicit
It's not time travel. It's pulling things from different timelines.
>and is what the professor believes paradoxes are
The professor isn't going to know the exact details of how the crystals work even if they get the time machine to work.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Admit that imagination theory was completely and utterly wrong.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Admit that imagination theory was completely and utterly [HEADCANON].
I think you forget that the DLC "not explaining anything" doesn't change the status quo. They wouldn't give more evidence against them being from the future/past if it were true.
5 months ago
Anonymous
But there's direct evidence of time travel via the professor in the postgame, caused by Terapagos/the crystals, backed up by the note you can find before ever going to the Kitikami pool.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>But there's direct evidence of time travel via the professor in the postgame
There's direct evidence of "time travel" via Heath in the base game. What does that have to do with all of the paradoxes only being named after Heath's record but still resembling Occulture which is the only source for them being from other times?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>What does that have to do with all of the paradoxes only being named after Heath's record but still resembling Occulture which is the only source for them being from other times?
We see the Raidon on the cover of the printed journal, which is (probably) how the professor instantly identifies the Raidon. Did that somehow come from Occulture too, or was it made based on the description in the book?
You're making the mistake of thinking that the descriptions come from Occulture, but they don't. They clearly come from the books (Flutter Mane is the biggest one), with tacky "theories" tacked on top.
We also now have conformation that the Professor read Briar's version of the journal even in our own timeline, which is very likely the thing - along with meeting us - that started them looking to other points in time/space rather than their initial theory, which is "they're from other realities."
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Did that somehow come from Occulture too, or was it made based on the description in the book?
We don't know. It might be in the November issue for all we can tell. >You're making the mistake of thinking that the descriptions come from Occulture, but they don't.
It's the other way around. Their names are taken directly from the book, but their characteristics are pulled from Occulture.
The paradox entries say they are NAMED after monsters/objects in an old expedition journal in the version you play. But in the other one, they RESEMBLE illustrations/entities described in a magazine.
That coupled with the "paradoxes" we actually see in the book being different from the ones we got should immediately make it clear which comes from where.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>That coupled with the "paradoxes" we actually see in the book being different from the ones we got should immediately make it clear which comes from where.
And this is where I think the problem lies.
Some of Occulture's issues are written to sound like they only took the name, some took the description and name and some took 'everything'.
> The mysterious Violet Book makes reference to a being called Iron Bundle, which was said to look like Delibird and to possess a spherical apparatus from which it would fire huge blasts of ice to propel itself through snowy lands.
Like this. That, to me, makes it sound like the BOOK described it as "looking like a delibird", etc. That's why the waters are so muddied, because we can't flick through the book in its entirety and see everything.
We at least know the Raidon were specifically described in the book and have a visual reference for the Professor to pick up on, and notably when THEY are transferred to the other game there's no mention of them at all from any source in that universe.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>We at least know the Raidon were specifically described in the book
I'm not saying you're wrong, but Heath was a known writer before the expedition. Are we sure it isn't another book he worked on featured them prior to this and it became a "signature" of his work on the Scarlet/Violet book?
The dex entries for Koraidon/Miraidon actually say they come from an old book in the OPPOSITE version. So that muddles up the waters even more.
The only thing that I don't get now is why all the paradox pokemon have a description in Heath's book or occulture. Can't they just bring some completely unrelated pokemon? This is why I can't take this plot serious when even Ultra beasts were completely unrelated.
>The only thing that I don't get now is why all the paradox pokemon have a description in Heath's book or occulture.
Raging Bolt, Iron Crown, Iron Leaves, and Gouging Fire are exclusively from Occulture. They aren't mentioned to come from Heath's book at all-- only Walking Wake / Iron Boulder.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>It resembles a pokemon described in a dubious magazine as a Terrakion that had been modified by an evil organization
That sounds a lot like Genesect, too much to be a coincidence since they're both Unova pokemon.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Imagination Theorists love moving the goalposts
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Paradox Pokemon once again heavily implied to not be from the past/future >Instance of time travel that was already a part of imagination theory in Heath getting the schematics was expanded on as part of the game >This means imaginationgays are moving the goalpost, not timegays
Disingenuous.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Plot is about time loop >Paradoxes explicitly from past and future >But it's imagination BECAUSE IT JUST IS OKAY?!
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Instance of time travel that was already a part of imagination theory
Oh frick off.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Oh frick off.
Bro. How did Heath get the schematics to the machine? This was literally already a part of discussion since release. Pic related was posted before the DLC even released.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Less than 2 weeks ago and was never mentioned previously, stop clinging onto other peoples theories and projecting onto others. >How did Heath get the schematics to the machine?
The page is about Stellar type, not the time machine.
A standard mainline Jigglypuff has no relation to a Scream Tail
This has always been the cause of conflict when discussing Paradox Pokemon. It is abhorrent and runs contrary to the history of the Pokemon world we've watched grow.
If stuff like Scream Tail existed in the Pokemon World's past, the Pokemon world should not look the way it does now and if stuff like Iron Hands is the future of the Pokemon world, it's a bleak boring joyless future. To anyone with taste, it's far more palatable that these creatures are freakish Pokemon from freakish failed timelines that only exist to remind us of how wrong things could have gone or could go
This, it can also explain why cavemen have pictures of cyclazar and not koraidon because it's just from another world. A lot of things in game makes sense if it's just alternative timelines.
Sure it's unexpected, I'll give you that. But it doesn't actually contradict anything. You're just saying that they can't add new world building you personally don't like in a game that tries to be something new because your image of the poke world from previous games must stay intact, which isn't a right you were given. I'm not trying to sound smug, it's just true.
Shit eater shut the frick up. Yes, the Pokemon world is constantly evolving and having new information added or stuff removed for the sake of new merch but the Paradox Pokemon feel wrong. They feel soulless and joyless if that is the history of the Pokemon world.
Like a child's imagination that actually all prehistoric Pokemon were dinosaurs and cavemen or all future Pokemon will be robots. Soulless. Lifeless. Disgusting. I can tolerate them as wanderers from another place or another time but not as the true past or the future.
It reeks of artificiality in theming.
If they really were the past then why don't all fossil Pokemon have the same BST as the past Paradox Pokemon?
The only thing that I don't get now is why all the paradox pokemon have a description in Heath's book or occulture. Can't they just bring some completely unrelated pokemon? This is why I can't take this plot serious when even Ultra beasts were completely unrelated.
The version-exclusive Paradox 'mons are "real" and were seen in the expedition and 'expanded upon' by Occulture.
The opposing Paradox 'mons were batshit creations made up exclusively by occulture or some other rag in-universe and had no basis in their respective book. An example is Flutter Mane;
>This Pokémon has characteristics similar to those of Flutter Mane, a creature mentioned in a certain book.
>It has similar features to a ghostly pterosaur that was covered in a paranormal magazine, but the two have little else in common.
So in Violet, it wasn't even described as a the THEORY being that it was the ghost of a pterosaur, like in Scarlet. It was just a pterosaur ghost.
>The version-exclusive Paradox 'mons are "real" and were seen in the expedition and 'expanded upon' by Occulture.
How come the opposite version paradoxes come from Occulture even if they were never featured in the expedition?
You can't just say "they don't exist" because they do, with or without Heath's record.
This is where I feel the professor's mention of "other timelines" is important. They're going to believe they come from other time periods either way, but when they say "pulling from other timelines" it actually just opens up to door to the opposite version paradoxes even if the events leading up to them being manifested never happened in your version.
They both have to exist, and the only constant is Occulture.
That's the Paradox. They don't exist in-universe in the other game, they weren't brought through from the past in Heath's time, Heath never saw or documented them.
Until you bring them through time and space into the other game and make them real from the other timeline.
>We at least know the Raidon were specifically described in the book
I'm not saying you're wrong, but Heath was a known writer before the expedition. Are we sure it isn't another book he worked on featured them prior to this and it became a "signature" of his work on the Scarlet/Violet book?
The dex entries for Koraidon/Miraidon actually say they come from an old book in the OPPOSITE version. So that muddles up the waters even more.
[...] >The only thing that I don't get now is why all the paradox pokemon have a description in Heath's book or occulture.
Raging Bolt, Iron Crown, Iron Leaves, and Gouging Fire are exclusively from Occulture. They aren't mentioned to come from Heath's book at all-- only Walking Wake / Iron Boulder.
>The dex entries for Koraidon/Miraidon actually say they come from an old book in the OPPOSITE version. So that muddles up the waters even more.
That is confusing. Why are they treated as two different Pokemon???
They don't exist physically before you break the timeline by trading them, I mean. They make them up to cash in, like paranormal magazines do. They took what they DID have (their version exclusive 'mons) and ran with the rest. Heath never saw the other version's Paradox 'mons, with the possible exception of the other Raidon.
Take Iron Hand's entry when put to Scarlet:
>It is very similar to a cyborg covered exclusively by a paranormal magazine. The cyborg was said to be the modified form of a certain athlete. >Exclusively
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Heath never saw the other version's Paradox 'mons
They never saw 4/6 of the same versions Paradoxmons either. But that doesn't explain the differences between the Great Tusk / Iron Treads in addition to that.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>They never saw 4/6 of the same versions Paradoxmons either.
They did. They saw them all; in almost every case the dex makes clear they're similar to those creatures described in the book. The problem is WE can't flip to every single page ourselves to read what is described or has been sketched to see how close it is to what we see.
>But that doesn't explain the differences between the Great Tusk / Iron Treads in addition to that.
Imagine you get charged by a murderous giant that kills one of your expedition and forces you to retreat, you manage to snap one semi-blurry photo of one and your sketch artist is forced to fill in the blanks later. They'd obviously make minor mistakes, and they did in both cases.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>The problem is WE can't flip to every single page ourselves to read what is described or has been sketched to see how close it is to what we see.
Further proof from Sandy Shocks:
>No records exist of this Pokémon being caught. Data is lacking, but the Pokémon’s traits match up with a creature shown in an expedition journal.
Shown. Not described.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Shown. Not described.
God you imaginationgays are such morons. Take a look at occulture and you'll find this line >It's said that Sandy Shocks is an aggressive sort and that some people who've seen it have been attacked as well. It takes its name from a beast with a matching description in the era-defining Scarlet Book.
Every single paradox was described in the book.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>God you imaginationgays are such morons.
I'm not an imagination gay, I think you misunderstood.
My point is that every Paradox 'mon WAS seen in their respective expedition book, none of them are based on Occulture's descriptions in their own games.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>My point is that every Paradox 'mon WAS seen in their respective expedition book
Except the new ones sans Walking Wake / Iron Boulder.
So the tera crystals only connect two points in spacetime between places where there's a huge concentration of tera crystals, right?
I mean >the protag in the present at Kitakami's lake + the professor in the past at Area Zero >Kitakamians in the present at the lake + their deceased relatives in the past also at the lake >someone who knew the schematics of the time machine in the present (whether at the lake or AZ) + Heath in the past at AZ >potentially the paradoxes summoned by the professor in the present at AZ + Heath's expedition in the past also at AZ
I thought I had explained the ending clearly and that the story is contained to ONE timeline, but do people just want the professor to have a happy ending? I'm not sure where the disconnection is, is it because it's left open ended after they give us their original copy? There is nothing stopping them from making a 'new' book with their ID imprinted, they have 10 years to fulfill their duty.
>There is nothing stopping them from making a 'new' book with their ID imprinted
It's just a big leap to make. You're telling me they just made another book with the exact same signature and went through all of the same events, sans maybe visiting Arven at home, despite having literal, actual knowledge about the future?
The entire point of their story in base game was that they NEVER stopped by at home, because they were too concerned about making progress.
>You're telling me they just made another book with the exact same signature and went through all of the same events, sans maybe visiting Arven at home, despite having literal, actual knowledge about the future?
To be fair, we know "our" professor actually did have the meeting at Kitikami. You can find the note in the depths before you ever get to the postgame.
The question is whether or not THEY traded the book too, or it really was an alternative timeline professor we meet at the end.
>You can find the note in the depths before you ever get to the postgame.
I wasn't able to confirm this in my version but I concede that this makes things a lot more complicated especially if it only appears when you do it.
>The entire point of their story in base game was that they NEVER stopped by at home, because they were too concerned about making progress.
Anon, I implore you to study up on the timeline of events.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Professor_Sada/Quotes
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Arven/Quotes
Arven tells you that they DO visit, but it becomes more and more infrequent. They drop the Raidon at the lighthouse when he's several years old before having to take it back to Area Zero after it starts rampaging.
Signing a book and planting their ID into a textbook is not a difficult feat, especially for a scientist that builds both a time machine and the worlds most advanced AI. Yes, I'm attempting to fill in gaps, but I'm not asking for much. Others are suggesting that you believe there are multiple timelines, and that somehow -this specific event- branches into a new one even though we KNOW FOR A FACT that the meeting with the professor MUST HAPPEN.
I didn't finish the DLC yet but I've read the professor actually talked about taking pokemon from other timelines into their own and there's still the problem with paradox pokemon not being able to be seen by Heath ever so what's the idea now?
Yes. Because it was never a question of there being a paradoxical loop in the story, it was always about the paradoxes themselves verifiably coming from Occulture.
Thank you for moving the goalpost once again like everyone knew you would.
Timetravelgays unironically think everyone who discards their theory thinks time travel isn't a thing in pokemon in general, they unironically bring Bill's time machine and Celebi as an argument.
Yes. Because it was never a question of there being a paradoxical loop in the story, it was always about the paradoxes themselves verifiably coming from Occulture.
Thank you for moving the goalpost once again like everyone knew you would.
This is absolutely insane cope. You people have thrown a months long tantrum about how time travel didn't exist and it was magical imagination magic that created everything and that time travel doesn't make sense or exist.
NOW you're trying to claim that of course it's time travel and that's why everyone who said it was time travel this whole time is wrong because ________.
>You people have thrown a months long tantrum about how time travel didn't exist and it was magical imagination magic that created everything and that time travel doesn't make sense or exist.
This is exactly why we have the archive.
[...]
The status quo has not changed. They give you every reason to believe the source of paradoxes is the professor's dream and no reason to believe it's time travel. So yeah, it still doesn't work in the context of the story for them.
Yes, anon, the time travel presented in SV doesn't make sense. Time travel in general is a different matter, unless you see time capsule, Celebi and Arceus' time travel follows the same rules as the one from SV.
ngl this is gonna sound like cope now but the only reasonable explanation for the missing threads based on what was in the game is that it was either cut alongside the unused items. >Heath was supposed to have a speaking role in the game/DLC based on datamining.
we know this for a fact. so either more DLC when they release the peach shit or it was just cut.
I don't care which theory was right either way but it just kinda sounds like the story of the game was poorly written, bad and confusing. I guess it just follows the pattern, I feel like these games stories have just been consistently shitty and underdeveloped yet attempt to be serious ever since USUM, where they plopped the ultra recon squad on top of the existing relatively competent SM story without any consideration whatsoever. They didn't realise the plot hole of immense magnitude they had created when lusamine did all the shit she did and her attempts to catch nebby when she had the ultra shit squad at her beck and call with a wormhole creating legendary the whole time. Just more typical modern gamefreak careless it seems to me.
I used to think the paradox Pokemon got created via dreams or whatever. But it turns out SV is the first mainline games that are full of misinformation because frankly, no one in in-universe has any fricking idea how they actually work. I propose that paradox Pokemon simply comes from an alternative reality and that information provided in game be taken with a grain of salt. Its kind of in line with how the opposing raidon doesn't exist in-universe for your native game without connecting to another via trading. That's my humble view on it anyway.
I kept fricking saying that the DLC won't explain shit about paradox mons. Nothing about it hinted towards them, and they wouldn't take the paradox away from paradox mons.
Plus, it gets the conversation about the game going. That's free marketing. Tbh I rather have an insane half-explanation that raises more questions than anything instead a lame proper explanation that just ends up being disappointing and/or takes away the magic.
I kept fricking saying that the DLC won't explain shit about paradox mons. Nothing about it hinted towards them, and they wouldn't take the paradox away from paradox mons.
Plus, it gets the conversation about the game going. That's free marketing. Tbh I rather have an insane half-explanation that raises more questions than anything instead a lame proper explanation that just ends up being disappointing and/or takes away the magic.
Oh yeah and people kept huffing copium and screamed at me about how I'm just parroting Khu or some shit. Frick you guys.
The game throws shade at it being your average time traveling plot line with the Pokemon's descriptions being nonsense so people at the time was trying to logically explain why they exist. The answer in my humble opinion is different universes and in-universe descriptions is people trying to explain it because it makes no sense.
The paradox is the source of the information, not the pokemon themselves. They are unequivocally real. Heath is given information from someone else and omits all key information. Turo/Sada is given information and omits all key information. Briar writes her own book, which we pass on to Turo/Sada to find the Paradox Pokemon. There is no logical starting point to how the Pokemon were first discovered, we just know where to find them.
>in bw there's a city that can change between futuristic and ancient >paradoxes mon are basically assumed to be based on this similar idea
What if,the paradox mon are spawned by the collective consciousness of people that are aware of this city concept every time the switch is flipped? I mean,the switch that changes the city,also do spawn paradox pokemons trough terestal energy and terapagos power. I think there's definitely a connection between that double city>clay>the professors> bba . I just wish the devs could make some sense when story writing
So you are saying Heath wrote the page with the science bullshit himself since the beginning? He wasn't as scientist, it doesn't makes sense, paradox aside
Terapagos can spontaniously displace People and Pokemon across space time within the same universe.
Sada/Taro tested the time machine using Terapagos scutes using Blair's book they got from the protag.
The time machine displaced the Paradoxmons around the same time Heath is on his expedition to the crater.
The Paradoxmons were then replaced to the present day.
The time machine were left on after the rogue box legendary killed Arven's Parents.
ParadoxMons are Temporal Mons, Displaced by the Time Machine Arven Parents built. The lack of fossils regarding Past Temporal mons were actually an oversight by the script writers as they wanted their stories to be synced with minor differences (like the Aqua/Magma feud in RSE/ORAS).
>You forgot to place Past/Future in Heath's time.
We don't know if they're actually there or not. The only thing that matters is the transfer of information. If we take what Arven says as a clue, Paradox Pokemon don't exist in Area Zero before the Time Machine.
>They do exist before the time machine,
Correct, in the ancient past and distant future >just that the time machine accidentally drops them off there.
This causes complications with removing them. The paradox does not require them existing in the past. If Heath enters Area Zero, discovers Terapagos, and meets the Professor to exchange information, that's the only thing that matters.
>The only person who thinks otherwise in-game is the professor who read it from Occulture which only timegays believe.
False. Every Pokemon is described - oftentimes mentioned directly - in their respective books. Occulture only added insane and whacky theories.
We now know the Professor originally intended to hunt for them in other timelines before we put the idea in their heads that they Paradoxes are from the past/future.
>Occulture only added insane and whacky theories.
Like them being from the past/future. Yeah.
Please keep up, it's getting a little tiring waiting for sudachi2.5.
The only person in the game that thinks they come from other timelines is the professor, who you then give Briar's book to that tells them otherwise. I'm glad to see you again schizo! Even now after you got utterly BTFO'd you're still here trying. I still can't find those new volumes of Occulture you said was going to be added!
>Both timetravelgays and imaginationgays were wrong and the game just poorly explains paradox mons are from different timelines.
I was honestly expecting something like this. Can paradox mons be considered ultra beasts now?
I don't think you're understanding me anon, I don't care what the Japanese explanation is, I care about how it was explained in English. If there's two different explanations, it makes the most sense to use the one from your own language.
If I say I want Bread and a French person fricks up translation and says I want Breading, then the French would be wrong if they gave me breading. You ALWAYS go with the original language
They're effectively exactly like ultra beasts except they look like Pokemon we are familiar with hence why there's so much in-universe confusion.
Ultra Beasts' ultraboost ability being a permanent ability to activate a totem aura suggests they are some kind of evolution or mutation of previous pokemon thanks to Necrozma's radiation (remember the totem sites are special because they are bathed in Necrozma's light more than other places in the region) so I would say the difference is that UB are straight up mutants (fitting considering Necrozma's Z-move is a nuke reference) while paradox pokemon are normal "in this universe pokemon are just like this" parallel worlds
Given all of this bullshit ties back to Terapagos, its going to be there. All it takes for one of them to be in a universe with an ancient and futuristic world.
weird thought, but the fact it can be either sex makes me wonder if it's just a species of legendary the way that latios and latias are, like it's just a normal Pokemon somewhere else
anon you lost, nobody is going to believe that dumb shit with so many implications about different timelines. It's time to let it go, both timecucks and imaginationgays were wrong
>Explain how Sada's/Turo's copy of the Book existed in our timeline.
The one Arven has is a forged copy, same reason he doesn't recognize it as his parents' when you meet him in his dorm room.
Let me guess, you think there IS a "mega timeline" too?
How do illiterategays see one thing happen in game and interpret the direct opposite? Is this the power of time travel cope?
Let me guess, you think there IS a "mega timeline" too?
How do illiterategays see one thing happen in game and interpret the direct opposite? Is this the power of time travel cope?
And at the end of the day, despite everything, we STILL have to keep waiting and hoping we get a concrete explanation of what Terapagos and by extension the Tera Crystals that spawned from its desperate attempt to persevere can actually fricking do.
Hope you're ready to suffer a weekly kodomo anime in vague hopes that you'll get ANYTHING to grasp to, loregays.
The Paradoxes are your reward for completing Perrin's sidequest in Kitakami and filling your Pokedex to 200 in Blueberry. Once she gives you her hot tip, one static instance each of Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire or Iron Crown and Iron Boulder appear in Area Zero.
Pecharunt's event, Mochi Madness, is already fully programmed in the game and has its contents in the script dump, it's just that there's no way to obtain the Perfect Pecha Berry needed to start the event yet.
Loregays got fricked then. They deserved it for shitting up threads for so long, but I still feel a little bad for them
Lore and competitive are the only reasons people still play these gay-ass games. Pokemon world is cool, there's a lot of cool stories to be had and fans want to live in it, if it weren't for that no one would give Game Freak the time of day.
The Paradoxes are your reward for completing Perrin's sidequest in Kitakami and filling your Pokedex to 200 in Blueberry. Once she gives you her hot tip, one static instance each of Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire or Iron Crown and Iron Boulder appear in Area Zero.
Pecharunt's event, Mochi Madness, is already fully programmed in the game and has its contents in the script dump, it's just that there's no way to obtain the Perfect Pecha Berry needed to start the event yet.
Same fundamental worlds, so anything Terapagos is explicitly stated of performing in the anime will ultimately help shape our understanding of how it functions in the games, which will allow us to draw better conclusions of what the frick it and the Tera Crystals can actually do since they play a major role in the story.
>game literally has the professor at the lake say they're from a different timeline >it makes sure to even make the two timelines different by introducing the fact that the alt timeline professor gave away their cherished book, while the professor from "our" timeline still had the book >"NOOOOO THEY'RE WRONG THERE'S ACTUALLY ONLY ONE TIMELINE AND THE PROFESSOR HAD TWO BOOKS THE WHOLE TIME BUT CONVENIENTLY DIDN'T MENTION IT!!!!"
How did you homosexuals even survive into adulthood?
But imaginationgays were the ones who were ignoring things that were EXPLICITLY SAID IN THE FRICKING GAME and inventing headcanons to fit their theory. Exactly the same thing that only-one-timelinegays are doing now. Inventing an entire fricking book just to ignore what the game actually said.
If the game used the professor to say they were from a different timeline, then they were from a different timeline. There's no red herring here. The game isn't lying to you. Stop being schizophrenic.
The world would be a very different place if the scene where Arven questions the logic of Heath encountering Paradox Pokemon prior to the Time Machine's construction didn't exist.
It would be a detail no one would care about, and as a result 95% of this discourse wouldn't be so rampant, destined to feedback loop eternally now that we know SV is another game with loose ends that will never be touched on until a new writer comes in and rewrites the story for the remake's new postgame scenario.
>But imaginationgays were the ones who were ignoring things that were EXPLICITLY SAID IN THE FRICKING GAME and inventing headcanons to fit their theory.
You mean timetraveltards, since there's nothing supporting the idea that they come from the past/future except the magazine we know to be fake.
They are from the past/future anon. Just not the past/future of the regular pokémon timeline.
There's a world out there where everything was dinosaurs in the past, there's another world out there where everything will be robots in the future. These are not the world the games are set in, but they definitely exist.
The only things that were lies in the game were the Occulture descriptions, because they were just assumptions made by people who had no idea what these pokémon actually were, and trying to come up with some (often crazy) explanations for their existence. And the game made sure to point out that these descriptions were bullshit, by constantly referring to Occulture as "dubious".
it's like that gay "if you do something different it turns into a completely different universe" thing, right?
If so, likely the universe the SV protagonist is in is "done." The BW remakes and future games would probably be in the universe where the prof never dies, that never has the paradoxes. That would be a neat and tidy way to make those Pokemon contained only to SV since they don't function the way hisui or fossil pokemon do.
SV also mentions mega evolution, so if that universe is DONE then that's another way to retcon mega evolution once and for all.
it's from another timeline
hope this helps
okay, can someone summarize all of this shit?
isn't this supposed to be a kid's game?
Basically in the original timeline you GAVE the white tome to the professor (in the future), which let them keep their own book (that they used as a key for the time machine). But when you came to realize that fixed event in the lake, you EXCHANGED the white book, thus the new timeline changed. Anon is implying they couldn't complete the time machine because of that, but in all honesty it might just be semantics.
You always exchange books, there's only 1 timeline.
Yeah I think so to. Exchanging is a form of giving. But that would mean the book they had was not the original copy they cherished (since they gave it to you). Which is not a big deal but may be confusing to some.
If SV has proven anything, vast majority of people don't know what the frick is going on with time loops anyways. People are STILL claiming Arven said it's fake.
>You always exchange books
No. The professor you see at the lake is a different one who went back home and stopped obsessing over their time machine.
We don't know this. You're relying on complete fanfiction to justify theory. Just as equally as they suggest they can go home to read and spend time with Arven, they just as equally suggest they can build and AI, a machine, and more research, especially considering they say Briar's Book will inspire them (time travel instead of timelinehomosexualry). The whole point is that you're looking at a pre-insanity professor who didn't make that decision yet.
>We don't know this
Yes we do.
The professor at the lake trades away his book, that they loved since they were a child.
The professor in our timeline has a specific book in their lab with an ID encoded in it, that the AI says they loved since they were a child.
There's a blatant contradiction, meaning it's not the same professor, which is why the game has multiple lines of dialogue explaining that they're not necessarily from the same timeline. The line that says "I'll go home to read a good book" is obviously implying it's a different professor who drops their obsession and doesn't go down the same dark path ours did.
>B-B-BUT THE JAPANESE SAID
YWNBJ
>The professor in our timeline has a specific book in their lab with an ID encoded in it, that the AI says they loved since they were a child.
Here's where you frick up. The AI specifically says they loved that VOLUME as a child, not that copy. It's clearly intentional.
Only thing I disagree with that diagram on the right is the implication that Heath never actually encountered the paradoxes and was just copying what the professor told him.
I think the paradoxes summoned by the professor via the time machine probably WERE sent to the 200 years ago briefly with the power of tera crystals, due to Terapagos being awaken back then, and Heath did actually see them before Terapagos went to sleep and the paradoxes disappeared, returning to present day.
Yo, I think I get it now, thanks anon(s). Although I think there's more than just Timeline A and B, it could even have way, way more layers, like 10 or more. Maybe the Violet/Scarlet book was very barren at first and then kept getting more through the professor's influence or some bullshit (like adding more paradox mons) by going through several loops. Could even be the reason why the copies of the book had blurry text on the page about Terapagos, something about the timeloop is distorting it or whatever.
Anyway, point is, the professor that we met at the lake is definitely not the same professor that died in our timeline, or at least won't end up the same once they're back. The prof gave us their unique(!) copy of the book - the very same book that, in our timeline, Arven personally has given us. It even has the exact same item description. And that book was made the literal key to stop the time machine. The prof has made it the key (since they still had it) and we used it to stop the machine, using the mechanism they created.
In our timeline, Arven has found it in the lighthouse lab which, again, means that the professor of our timeline did NOT give it away - even though they definitely had Briar's book. Otherwise the note in the depths wouldn't exist in our timeline. But it wasn't us that gave him Briar's book, it was either someone else or another iteration of us.
God, this shit is insane. I'm not even mad that they barely explained shit because this is so interesting and fricked up. I couldn't believe when I saw Turo in front of me.
How many fricking loops are there? Are we stuck in a loop? What is Terapagos endgoal? Is it going through timeloops to "fix" history? Is it trying to make the world a better place by changing timelines? Is it just fricking around? It's so fricking strange and makes barely any fricking sense. But I love it. And I hope that we maybe created a second timeline where Arven gets a happier life.
The raidon in that scene was adorable and heartbreaking at the same time. They were so happy to see them again. You can tell that they truly loved the professor.
God, yeah. It knew they were about to leave and were so sad. And the Raidon loving the prof so much makes me double sad because clearly they gave the Raidon so much more love and care than Arven could've even dreamed of. Why does GF torment me with such sad, messed up stories that are only implied and only hit you if you think about the implications? This gotta be Ohmori working through his trauma or some bullshit like that. It shouldn't be so depressing, and yet...
So imaginationgays actually won huh
If you ignore the fact that it's time travel sure, their imaginations are certainly running wild
The Time Machine still didn’t pull Pokémon from different timelines and there is no alternative timeline. Timecucks still coping hard and at suicide watch. That’s why they are moving on to the Lacey bs.
>The Time Machine still didn’t pull Pokémon from different timelines and there is no alternative timeline.
No shit.
>Lacey bs
I'm curious about what that is about
But timetrannies are the ones insisting there's only one timeline. Imaginationgays are on the multiple timelines side because that would mean the paradoxes are not ACTUALLY from the past/future, but from different timelines. So no moronic shit like everything evolving from a dinosaur or into a robot.
Meanwhile Imaginationgays are yelling "B-BUT THEY SAY ITS GHOSTS" while just refusing to answer how that makes sense whenever anyone brings up the Professor's own journal entry about the meeting happening.
>Original plan: [FANFICTION]
Is the journal from the top left even there before you do the event?
Yes.
>collect pokemon from area zero crater after Heath's expedition concludes
How could those pokemon be in area zero for the professor to collect them if they are from alternative, prehistoric/futuristic-themed timelines?
>Got so mad at the other thread he made an incorrect infograph
>Said graph clearly proves himself wrong as this Sada no longer has her childhood book that the AI took off her in our timeline but he refuses to believe this
Delusion
Wait so there's some kind of time travel but rather than closing the loop we make a good ending for another world? Then there's no fricking way the paradoxes lived in area zero when Heath went there
I should have phrased that last line better. The loop is not completed. It's a closed loop on the same timeline. There is no happy ending because the Professor we interact with is the one that wrote the journal about meeting us.
>Then there's no fricking way the paradoxes lived in area zero when Heath went there
That's the fun part! Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Who knows! The professor just happened to find them.
They were brought through temporarily by Terapagos for some reason, and vanished when it went back to sleep (we know its own time-travel is limited via Heath/the Professor).
>They were brought through temporarily by Terapa- FANFIC FANFIC FANFIC
Except it isn't. Heath literally experiences the exact same thing you do in Kitikami. The crystals/Terrapagos have the power to displace time and space.
>They were brought through temporarily by Terapagos for some reason
Literall when is this ever said or implied?
Because Terapagos does so with humans - Heath during his time-travel when he's given the page he doesn't remember writing, and the Professor in Kitikami (which we directly see it cause).
It then follows that if this is true for humans, it would be true for the Paradox 'mons, which is why they're never found after Heath's expedition.
Okay so us and the professor from another timeline meet in Kitakami, and Heath dreamed something and woke up with the page with his writing, so... the paradox pokemon were sent to Heath's times for a while just like that? That's nonsensically convenient
No.
Heath describes what he assumes is a dream but we now know via the epilogue was the influence of Terapagos sending him through time to meet someone (we don't know who).
It then follows that this is exactly how it works for the Paradox 'mons pre-machine, which is why the expeditions after that point never found them either.
Terapagos and its crystals can't bring things through time/space permanantly that we've seen without being modified (ie; the time machine).
We don't have all the answers though.
>Heath describes what he assumes is a dream but we now know via the epilogue was the influence of Terapagos sending him through time to meet someone (we don't know who).
That's the fairest assumption, yes.
>It then follows that this is exactly how it works for the Paradox 'mons pre-machine
This is the part that you are forcing.
>This is the part that you are forcing.
Fair, but what's the most likely explanation?
Either "oh they just vanished within like a month idk" or "Terapagos, who obviously brought them, sent them back when it went to sleep"?
Its the easiest way to reconcile the Paradox 'mons vanishing based on what we're told.
>Terapagos, who obviously
Dude I'm politely avoiding the use of the word headcanon for the sake of a sane discussion, but you aren't making it easy.
Alright, fair. Dropping that angle, then, I could put it down to that being part of the Paradox. We don't know who Heath talked to, and we don't know who brought the Paradox 'mons in to begin with.
>he's given the page he doesn't remember writing
Considering we change history and make a new timeline by speaking to the professor, I think they did the same thing when they were talking to Heath. Showing Heath his notes on Tera because he wrote them in their timeline, inspiring the professor. He acknowledges that it’s his own writing but has no knowledge of having written it. It’s not that Terapagos makes you forget what you did in those meetings either, because the professor clearly remembers getting Briar’s book from the protagonist clearly. So it can’t be that Heath just wrote the notes in his “dream” and then forgot.
The professor gave Heath the notes of the alternate Heath that wrote them.
>Paradox mons are ancient/future forms in alternative timelines
fair enough
But what the frick does that have to do with Terapagos ability to manipulate type matchups and tera allowing you to change type?
It's one timeline. The professor isn't aware you met them there because of the journal they had written in the future.
>But what the frick does that have to do with Terapagos ability to manipulate type matchups and tera allowing you to change type?
Nothing, really. Terastal energy is a macguffin. It basically lets you do whatever the plot needs you to do. We don't know the upper limits of it but we do know that it allows you to terastalize your pokemon and enhance technology past limits of modern technology.
>The professor isn't aware you met them there because of the journal they had written in the future.
How can anyone write a journal about something they were not aware of?
Anon, you're talking to the professor from 10 years ago. They're speculating on the circumstances on how you're speaking to one another. They're not aware that, in the future, they write about this moment in their secret lab. We find that journal, which is why you speak to them in the first place.
Sorry I misread the previous sentence.
So paradox mons are literally just shit from the past and the future?
Always have been.
WHY DOES SANDY SHOCKS EXIST, Black person?
HOW DO SCREWS AND MAGNETS COME ABOUT WITHOUT HUMAN INVENTION???
NATURALLY OCCURING?
Magnemite and Magneton are depicted inside the Ruins of Alph.
Paradox pokemon aren't from our past or future but your argument is moronic, in the Pokemon world this shit is older than the human invention and the humans create those things based on the pokemon, not the other way around. See Conkeldurr
>It basically lets you do whatever the plot needs you to do
Which it doesn't.
haha we dont know gaijin
did you rike it?
Headcanon, but Terapagos might be the source of all the energy, but what the energy is used for is like stem cells, it can be whatever. Reviving a Pokemon or using it as a massive weapon. Using it to send a meteor to a different timeline/dimension. Making pokermon bigger and use all that energy in all out attack. Access to Kaiju-tier modifications.
All this told me is that the speculah was better than what we actually got in the end.
>playing a boy
HOLY YIKES
>least deranged sub
i dont get it
>we've moved from time travel vs. imagination to alternate timelines vs. only one timeline
It'll never end huh?
Yes because Game Freak learned Time Travel from Dragonball
>alternate timelines vs. only one timeline
No, only the people that already adamantly believed it was time travel despite the evidence (old and new) debunking it.
It's mega timeline bullshit all over again where people who can't read interpret the exact opposite of what was actually presented in-game.
It's also in the lake where people saw ghosts of dead people and the professor is already dead before you met them. So people will say it was a illusion or that it was actually the professor time traveling without a time machine with turtle power and this discussion will never fricking end.
But it was the professor being brought from the past.
They literally write about being given the white book by a child in a strange land of sulfur. The only people who argue anything else are idiots who haven't played the game and read the journal.
Genuinely nice thread. Information trickles between timelines I guess. But as for the Time Machine, where did it pull Paradox's from?
From the Past/Future. Whether or not its from our timeline or another, though, there's no way to know.
The professor explicitly states they're pulling them from an alternative timeline, so they're more akin to ultra beasts being from a bizarro reality than their own world's past/future.
Okay but they didn't say that in our universe. The professor explicitly calls them Ancient/Future Pokemon in our main game. Could be Professors across timelines somehow only want to pull our timeline's paradoxes. (THEORY)
They say that's the IDEA, but that was before they got the time machine working, so its entirely possible that what they read in the book is what inspires them to actually look in the past/future.
Again, the translation is different but the japanese version uses the same exact word in both cases, the localization changes it.
>The professor explicitly states they're pulling them from an alternative timeline
Correction. They said that their original plan was to pull pokemon from alternative timelines. Which eventually became pulling mon from the past and future.
It's just the translation being inconsistent. In Japanese the professor states exactly the same thing as the AI saying "different points in the timeline" in the base game.
Good so now we know for sure that there's no multiple timeline shenanigans and imaginationgays can once again eat a fat wiener.
It's always been alternative time lines or multiverses. The real power of Terapagos is the power of Dreams. It can turn one's dream into reality. The professor wished to create a timeline with fantastic beasts to pull from and Terapagos did so. Kieran wished for a strong Pokémon which he got when it Tera formed. The player wished for a friend which is why we were able to capture it. It's power is literal dreams.
You're getting it backwards anon. The translation in the base game is the one that's inconsistent. In japanese, both the professor explaining the time machine and the professor in the lake use the same term 異なる時間軸, which directly translates to "different time axis/timelines". The base game just changed that to "different POINTS in the timeline" for whatever fricking reason.
I didn't get anything backwards, dumbass, all I said was that the translation was inconsistent. I didn't say one was correct over the other.
I agree that any normal person would understand 異なる時間軸 as "different timelines", but in the context of the professor contrasting that with 現代 (and using 古代 and 未来) it suggests that it's meant to be different points on the timeline (which is not necessarily incorrect, just that 異なる時間軸 is an unusual choice of words to represent that).
It's timelines.
Timelines have been canon since ORAS and arguably canon since Gen 1
Paradox Pokemon are not the past or future of mainline Pokemon timelines, they are Pokemon from alternate timelines where history diverged. It's convergent evolution on a multiverse scale.
Unless Time Travel gays wants to say that the Galar Birds are actually the past/future versions of the Kanto Birds or that Toadscool is a Past/future version of Tentacool
>Paradox Pokemon are not the past or future of mainline Pokemon timelines, they are Pokemon from alternate timelines where history diverged. It's convergent evolution on a multiverse scale.
So it's not time travel but it's timeLINES and they aren't from the past and future because they're from the past and future of alternate timelines so they don't count
Brilliant.
It matters because it prevents the main timeline from becoming fricking stupid.
Stupid shit like weird dinosaur versions of Pokemon or all Pokemon becoming cyborgs in the future should be kept to moronic alternate timelines not the main timeline
>Stupid shit like weird dinosaur versions of Pokemon or all Pokemon becoming cyborgs in the future should be kept to moronic alternate timelines not the main timeline
This, it's so moronic that it should be an alternate timeline and even game freak knows that.
This is a giant fanfic post if I've ever seen one. EVEN IF Our universe's paradox's are from other timelines, they're from the past/future of those timelines.
>galar birds
You're mistaking "we didn't get a good look at these until recently because they're so elusive" as "they're somehow completely unrelated" which is the antithesis of variants
>Toadscool
this is actual convergence
>they're from the past/future of those timelines
source?
The professor. You know, the same professor you consider a reliable source to tell you their from another timeline, and who's obviously changed their goal because of Briar's book, reinterpreting what the Paradox Pokemon are.
> canon since ORAS
ORAS had parallel worlds which were introduced in BW.
Stop listening to poketubers.
Imaginationgays now pivoting to "actually it's alternate timelines and that proves it's imagination" is truly baffling but shows how badly they were btfo
>Its Just Ghosts Bro! The villagers who didn't know about what tera crystals can do say so, so it must be true! That proves its not time travel!
Take your meds. The professor literally say timelines.
And how the frick does TRAVELING across TIME lines prove imagination theory?
What this has to do with imagination theory you schizo?
Literally this entire board has been infested by imaginationgays pushing their schizophrenia for months and when you people finally get btfo you make threads like this where you try and claim a win anyway. You people are fricking braindead.
Med, I won't fight your moronic ass. We are discussing other things here.
No no, what he said it quite literally exactly what we're seeing, even in this thread.
That's easily explained by larger time skips anon. The evolution barely changed anything since humans were cavemen.
Anon timelines are not a new thing if you played sun/moon or Oras. Events can me mostly the same and still be different
Events can be mostly the same and still be a different timeline*
I'm not denying timelines are canon. Just that it's somehow what's at play here.
Oh, so you're only selecting things that fit your intended timeline of events, completely ignoring the post you responded to. Convince me I should continue to legitimize your naonese by wasting my time arguing with you, since you clearly don't care about taking all facts into consideration.
>completely ignoring the post you responded to
Nope. It seems more like you're just seething hard at not paying enough attention to the game.
>not paying enough attention
Anon, I acknowledged everything you said and provided a counter. You threw everything others have said to you out the window and relied on selective proof for your arguments. Tell me again who actually didn't pay any attention to the game.
>Anon, I acknowledged everything you said and provided a counter
No you didn't.
>The AI specifically says they loved that VOLUME as a child,
Yes. Volume means book. They loved that book as a child.
> It's clearly intentional.
That there are different timelines, which is why the game explicitly says there are different timelines, yeah, it is.
>No you didn't.
ignoring my arguments like you did doesn't make them disappear anon. You can till respond to them properly
>volume means book
it doesn't mean exact copy. it's more like "edition"
>it's explicit
time travel is more explicit and is what the professor believes paradoxes are after already seeing them. The professor who hasn't even seen the paradoxes yet is of a lesser authority to speak about where they came from.
>it doesn't mean exact copy. it's more like "edition"
While I agree, I think its worth looking into whether or not the book has an identical description, w/having been signed as a kid.
>time travel is more explicit
Not him but why are you acting like time travel and multiple timelines are somehow mutually exclusive?
The professor originally thought paradoxes were just pokémon from other dimensions/timelines, they searched in those timelines but couldn't find anything interesting.
Then, after talking to the protag they realized they were also from different POINTS in those timelines. Ie, when they just searched for other dimensions/timelines, still in the present-day of those timelines, they couldn't find the paradoxes in the book. But when they changed their goal and started searching for the PAST or FUTURE of those timelines, lo and behold, there were the paradoxes from the book.
The time machine doesn't only grab things from other timelines or only from the past and future, it grabs things from both at the same time.
>ignoring my arguments
I didn't. Stop seething.
>it doesn't mean exact copy
In this context, it does. "Volume" literally means book. "Edition" is used more for when you're talking about a version of a book but not a specific physical copy.
>time travel is more explicit
It's not time travel. It's pulling things from different timelines.
>and is what the professor believes paradoxes are
The professor isn't going to know the exact details of how the crystals work even if they get the time machine to work.
Admit that imagination theory was completely and utterly wrong.
>Admit that imagination theory was completely and utterly [HEADCANON].
I think you forget that the DLC "not explaining anything" doesn't change the status quo. They wouldn't give more evidence against them being from the future/past if it were true.
But there's direct evidence of time travel via the professor in the postgame, caused by Terapagos/the crystals, backed up by the note you can find before ever going to the Kitikami pool.
>But there's direct evidence of time travel via the professor in the postgame
There's direct evidence of "time travel" via Heath in the base game. What does that have to do with all of the paradoxes only being named after Heath's record but still resembling Occulture which is the only source for them being from other times?
>What does that have to do with all of the paradoxes only being named after Heath's record but still resembling Occulture which is the only source for them being from other times?
We see the Raidon on the cover of the printed journal, which is (probably) how the professor instantly identifies the Raidon. Did that somehow come from Occulture too, or was it made based on the description in the book?
You're making the mistake of thinking that the descriptions come from Occulture, but they don't. They clearly come from the books (Flutter Mane is the biggest one), with tacky "theories" tacked on top.
We also now have conformation that the Professor read Briar's version of the journal even in our own timeline, which is very likely the thing - along with meeting us - that started them looking to other points in time/space rather than their initial theory, which is "they're from other realities."
>Did that somehow come from Occulture too, or was it made based on the description in the book?
We don't know. It might be in the November issue for all we can tell.
>You're making the mistake of thinking that the descriptions come from Occulture, but they don't.
It's the other way around. Their names are taken directly from the book, but their characteristics are pulled from Occulture.
The paradox entries say they are NAMED after monsters/objects in an old expedition journal in the version you play. But in the other one, they RESEMBLE illustrations/entities described in a magazine.
That coupled with the "paradoxes" we actually see in the book being different from the ones we got should immediately make it clear which comes from where.
>That coupled with the "paradoxes" we actually see in the book being different from the ones we got should immediately make it clear which comes from where.
And this is where I think the problem lies.
Some of Occulture's issues are written to sound like they only took the name, some took the description and name and some took 'everything'.
> The mysterious Violet Book makes reference to a being called Iron Bundle, which was said to look like Delibird and to possess a spherical apparatus from which it would fire huge blasts of ice to propel itself through snowy lands.
Like this. That, to me, makes it sound like the BOOK described it as "looking like a delibird", etc. That's why the waters are so muddied, because we can't flick through the book in its entirety and see everything.
We at least know the Raidon were specifically described in the book and have a visual reference for the Professor to pick up on, and notably when THEY are transferred to the other game there's no mention of them at all from any source in that universe.
>We at least know the Raidon were specifically described in the book
I'm not saying you're wrong, but Heath was a known writer before the expedition. Are we sure it isn't another book he worked on featured them prior to this and it became a "signature" of his work on the Scarlet/Violet book?
The dex entries for Koraidon/Miraidon actually say they come from an old book in the OPPOSITE version. So that muddles up the waters even more.
>The only thing that I don't get now is why all the paradox pokemon have a description in Heath's book or occulture.
Raging Bolt, Iron Crown, Iron Leaves, and Gouging Fire are exclusively from Occulture. They aren't mentioned to come from Heath's book at all-- only Walking Wake / Iron Boulder.
>It resembles a pokemon described in a dubious magazine as a Terrakion that had been modified by an evil organization
That sounds a lot like Genesect, too much to be a coincidence since they're both Unova pokemon.
Imagination Theorists love moving the goalposts
>Paradox Pokemon once again heavily implied to not be from the past/future
>Instance of time travel that was already a part of imagination theory in Heath getting the schematics was expanded on as part of the game
>This means imaginationgays are moving the goalpost, not timegays
Disingenuous.
>Plot is about time loop
>Paradoxes explicitly from past and future
>But it's imagination BECAUSE IT JUST IS OKAY?!
>Instance of time travel that was already a part of imagination theory
Oh frick off.
>Oh frick off.
Bro. How did Heath get the schematics to the machine? This was literally already a part of discussion since release. Pic related was posted before the DLC even released.
Less than 2 weeks ago and was never mentioned previously, stop clinging onto other peoples theories and projecting onto others.
>How did Heath get the schematics to the machine?
The page is about Stellar type, not the time machine.
Meds.
A standard mainline Jigglypuff has no relation to a Scream Tail
This has always been the cause of conflict when discussing Paradox Pokemon. It is abhorrent and runs contrary to the history of the Pokemon world we've watched grow.
If stuff like Scream Tail existed in the Pokemon World's past, the Pokemon world should not look the way it does now and if stuff like Iron Hands is the future of the Pokemon world, it's a bleak boring joyless future. To anyone with taste, it's far more palatable that these creatures are freakish Pokemon from freakish failed timelines that only exist to remind us of how wrong things could have gone or could go
This, it can also explain why cavemen have pictures of cyclazar and not koraidon because it's just from another world. A lot of things in game makes sense if it's just alternative timelines.
Sure it's unexpected, I'll give you that. But it doesn't actually contradict anything. You're just saying that they can't add new world building you personally don't like in a game that tries to be something new because your image of the poke world from previous games must stay intact, which isn't a right you were given. I'm not trying to sound smug, it's just true.
Shit eater shut the frick up. Yes, the Pokemon world is constantly evolving and having new information added or stuff removed for the sake of new merch but the Paradox Pokemon feel wrong. They feel soulless and joyless if that is the history of the Pokemon world.
Like a child's imagination that actually all prehistoric Pokemon were dinosaurs and cavemen or all future Pokemon will be robots. Soulless. Lifeless. Disgusting. I can tolerate them as wanderers from another place or another time but not as the true past or the future.
It reeks of artificiality in theming.
If they really were the past then why don't all fossil Pokemon have the same BST as the past Paradox Pokemon?
Honestly, whether they're from our past/future or another timeline, its cool these things exist somewhere rather than just being wished into reality.
Besides, its an easy way to have them keep coming back in future gens if GF want.
The only thing that I don't get now is why all the paradox pokemon have a description in Heath's book or occulture. Can't they just bring some completely unrelated pokemon? This is why I can't take this plot serious when even Ultra beasts were completely unrelated.
They actually don't. Imagine it this way;
The version-exclusive Paradox 'mons are "real" and were seen in the expedition and 'expanded upon' by Occulture.
The opposing Paradox 'mons were batshit creations made up exclusively by occulture or some other rag in-universe and had no basis in their respective book. An example is Flutter Mane;
>This Pokémon has characteristics similar to those of Flutter Mane, a creature mentioned in a certain book.
>It has similar features to a ghostly pterosaur that was covered in a paranormal magazine, but the two have little else in common.
So in Violet, it wasn't even described as a the THEORY being that it was the ghost of a pterosaur, like in Scarlet. It was just a pterosaur ghost.
>The version-exclusive Paradox 'mons are "real" and were seen in the expedition and 'expanded upon' by Occulture.
How come the opposite version paradoxes come from Occulture even if they were never featured in the expedition?
You can't just say "they don't exist" because they do, with or without Heath's record.
This is where I feel the professor's mention of "other timelines" is important. They're going to believe they come from other time periods either way, but when they say "pulling from other timelines" it actually just opens up to door to the opposite version paradoxes even if the events leading up to them being manifested never happened in your version.
They both have to exist, and the only constant is Occulture.
That's the Paradox. They don't exist in-universe in the other game, they weren't brought through from the past in Heath's time, Heath never saw or documented them.
Until you bring them through time and space into the other game and make them real from the other timeline.
>The dex entries for Koraidon/Miraidon actually say they come from an old book in the OPPOSITE version. So that muddles up the waters even more.
That is confusing. Why are they treated as two different Pokemon???
>They don't exist in-universe in the other game
How do the paranormal magazines document them then?
They're not canon. Occulture entries will be gone in gen 10 (or whatever game they return in) and forgotten.
They don't exist physically before you break the timeline by trading them, I mean. They make them up to cash in, like paranormal magazines do. They took what they DID have (their version exclusive 'mons) and ran with the rest. Heath never saw the other version's Paradox 'mons, with the possible exception of the other Raidon.
Take Iron Hand's entry when put to Scarlet:
>It is very similar to a cyborg covered exclusively by a paranormal magazine. The cyborg was said to be the modified form of a certain athlete.
>Exclusively
>Heath never saw the other version's Paradox 'mons
They never saw 4/6 of the same versions Paradoxmons either. But that doesn't explain the differences between the Great Tusk / Iron Treads in addition to that.
>They never saw 4/6 of the same versions Paradoxmons either.
They did. They saw them all; in almost every case the dex makes clear they're similar to those creatures described in the book. The problem is WE can't flip to every single page ourselves to read what is described or has been sketched to see how close it is to what we see.
>But that doesn't explain the differences between the Great Tusk / Iron Treads in addition to that.
Imagine you get charged by a murderous giant that kills one of your expedition and forces you to retreat, you manage to snap one semi-blurry photo of one and your sketch artist is forced to fill in the blanks later. They'd obviously make minor mistakes, and they did in both cases.
>The problem is WE can't flip to every single page ourselves to read what is described or has been sketched to see how close it is to what we see.
Further proof from Sandy Shocks:
>No records exist of this Pokémon being caught. Data is lacking, but the Pokémon’s traits match up with a creature shown in an expedition journal.
Shown. Not described.
>Shown. Not described.
God you imaginationgays are such morons. Take a look at occulture and you'll find this line
>It's said that Sandy Shocks is an aggressive sort and that some people who've seen it have been attacked as well. It takes its name from a beast with a matching description in the era-defining Scarlet Book.
Every single paradox was described in the book.
>God you imaginationgays are such morons.
I'm not an imagination gay, I think you misunderstood.
My point is that every Paradox 'mon WAS seen in their respective expedition book, none of them are based on Occulture's descriptions in their own games.
>My point is that every Paradox 'mon WAS seen in their respective expedition book
Except the new ones sans Walking Wake / Iron Boulder.
So the tera crystals only connect two points in spacetime between places where there's a huge concentration of tera crystals, right?
I mean
>the protag in the present at Kitakami's lake + the professor in the past at Area Zero
>Kitakamians in the present at the lake + their deceased relatives in the past also at the lake
>someone who knew the schematics of the time machine in the present (whether at the lake or AZ) + Heath in the past at AZ
>potentially the paradoxes summoned by the professor in the present at AZ + Heath's expedition in the past also at AZ
I thought I had explained the ending clearly and that the story is contained to ONE timeline, but do people just want the professor to have a happy ending? I'm not sure where the disconnection is, is it because it's left open ended after they give us their original copy? There is nothing stopping them from making a 'new' book with their ID imprinted, they have 10 years to fulfill their duty.
>There is nothing stopping them from making a 'new' book with their ID imprinted
It's just a big leap to make. You're telling me they just made another book with the exact same signature and went through all of the same events, sans maybe visiting Arven at home, despite having literal, actual knowledge about the future?
The entire point of their story in base game was that they NEVER stopped by at home, because they were too concerned about making progress.
>You're telling me they just made another book with the exact same signature and went through all of the same events, sans maybe visiting Arven at home, despite having literal, actual knowledge about the future?
To be fair, we know "our" professor actually did have the meeting at Kitikami. You can find the note in the depths before you ever get to the postgame.
The question is whether or not THEY traded the book too, or it really was an alternative timeline professor we meet at the end.
>You can find the note in the depths before you ever get to the postgame.
I wasn't able to confirm this in my version but I concede that this makes things a lot more complicated especially if it only appears when you do it.
It actually appears before you ever do the postgame meeting. Its actually what is meant to hint at you to go back to Kitikami.
This is what spawned the "meeting an alternate professor through time" theory.
>The entire point of their story in base game was that they NEVER stopped by at home, because they were too concerned about making progress.
Anon, I implore you to study up on the timeline of events.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Professor_Sada/Quotes
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Arven/Quotes
Arven tells you that they DO visit, but it becomes more and more infrequent. They drop the Raidon at the lighthouse when he's several years old before having to take it back to Area Zero after it starts rampaging.
Signing a book and planting their ID into a textbook is not a difficult feat, especially for a scientist that builds both a time machine and the worlds most advanced AI. Yes, I'm attempting to fill in gaps, but I'm not asking for much. Others are suggesting that you believe there are multiple timelines, and that somehow -this specific event- branches into a new one even though we KNOW FOR A FACT that the meeting with the professor MUST HAPPEN.
>people trying to make sense of a paradox plot
The point is that it’s not supposed to make sense
Frick off with that shit. This is the excuse for every badly written timetravel plot ever.
I didn't finish the DLC yet but I've read the professor actually talked about taking pokemon from other timelines into their own and there's still the problem with paradox pokemon not being able to be seen by Heath ever so what's the idea now?
Read the OP.
>imagination theory is true and time travel is false
>As long as you account for the time travel necessary in imagination theory
Oh nonono
Yes. Because it was never a question of there being a paradoxical loop in the story, it was always about the paradoxes themselves verifiably coming from Occulture.
Thank you for moving the goalpost once again like everyone knew you would.
Timetravelgays unironically think everyone who discards their theory thinks time travel isn't a thing in pokemon in general, they unironically bring Bill's time machine and Celebi as an argument.
This is absolutely insane cope. You people have thrown a months long tantrum about how time travel didn't exist and it was magical imagination magic that created everything and that time travel doesn't make sense or exist.
NOW you're trying to claim that of course it's time travel and that's why everyone who said it was time travel this whole time is wrong because ________.
You people are deranged. Get help.
>You people have thrown a months long tantrum about how time travel didn't exist and it was magical imagination magic that created everything and that time travel doesn't make sense or exist.
This is exactly why we have the archive.
The status quo has not changed. They give you every reason to believe the source of paradoxes is the professor's dream and no reason to believe it's time travel. So yeah, it still doesn't work in the context of the story for them.
>NOW you're trying to claim that
Hey pot, meet kettle.
Yes, anon, the time travel presented in SV doesn't make sense. Time travel in general is a different matter, unless you see time capsule, Celebi and Arceus' time travel follows the same rules as the one from SV.
ngl this is gonna sound like cope now but the only reasonable explanation for the missing threads based on what was in the game is that it was either cut alongside the unused items. >Heath was supposed to have a speaking role in the game/DLC based on datamining.
we know this for a fact. so either more DLC when they release the peach shit or it was just cut.
TPCi and Masuda forcing deadlines to be met fricking up lore yet again
Why no fossils of Scarlet's Paradox
I don't care which theory was right either way but it just kinda sounds like the story of the game was poorly written, bad and confusing. I guess it just follows the pattern, I feel like these games stories have just been consistently shitty and underdeveloped yet attempt to be serious ever since USUM, where they plopped the ultra recon squad on top of the existing relatively competent SM story without any consideration whatsoever. They didn't realise the plot hole of immense magnitude they had created when lusamine did all the shit she did and her attempts to catch nebby when she had the ultra shit squad at her beck and call with a wormhole creating legendary the whole time. Just more typical modern gamefreak careless it seems to me.
kurara my beloved
>it’s both imagination and time travel with a mix of multiverse shit as well
No it isn't.
>Pokémon that makes dreams a reality can do so to the point over space and time
>making a paradox in doing so but it must be self sustaining one
Terapagos does nothing with dreams.
I used to think the paradox Pokemon got created via dreams or whatever. But it turns out SV is the first mainline games that are full of misinformation because frankly, no one in in-universe has any fricking idea how they actually work. I propose that paradox Pokemon simply comes from an alternative reality and that information provided in game be taken with a grain of salt. Its kind of in line with how the opposing raidon doesn't exist in-universe for your native game without connecting to another via trading. That's my humble view on it anyway.
Pretty much. Paradox Pokémon are supposed to stay paradoxes forever. They are supposed to be weird and mysterious.
It's fricking hilarious how the average /vp/ luser thought they'd actually explain the paradoxes.
I kept fricking saying that the DLC won't explain shit about paradox mons. Nothing about it hinted towards them, and they wouldn't take the paradox away from paradox mons.
Plus, it gets the conversation about the game going. That's free marketing.
Tbh I rather have an insane half-explanation that raises more questions than anything instead a lame proper explanation that just ends up being disappointing and/or takes away the magic.
Oh yeah and people kept huffing copium and screamed at me about how I'm just parroting Khu or some shit. Frick you guys.
>game says they're from the ancient past/far future
>game only continues to support this
>HMMMMM NAH THIS IS FAKE
The game throws shade at it being your average time traveling plot line with the Pokemon's descriptions being nonsense so people at the time was trying to logically explain why they exist. The answer in my humble opinion is different universes and in-universe descriptions is people trying to explain it because it makes no sense.
It only "doesn't make sense" because you're illiterate and mentally disabled
Calm down there autistic person. I was never really married to any theory until we got the full picture.
The paradox is the source of the information, not the pokemon themselves. They are unequivocally real. Heath is given information from someone else and omits all key information. Turo/Sada is given information and omits all key information. Briar writes her own book, which we pass on to Turo/Sada to find the Paradox Pokemon. There is no logical starting point to how the Pokemon were first discovered, we just know where to find them.
If you ignore all the comments about how the Pokemon shouldn't be able to exist in the first place
>comments found: 0
>in bw there's a city that can change between futuristic and ancient
>paradoxes mon are basically assumed to be based on this similar idea
What if,the paradox mon are spawned by the collective consciousness of people that are aware of this city concept every time the switch is flipped? I mean,the switch that changes the city,also do spawn paradox pokemons trough terestal energy and terapagos power. I think there's definitely a connection between that double city>clay>the professors> bba . I just wish the devs could make some sense when story writing
....The timeline part is a mistranslation: it's supposed to be my point in spacetime as opposed to Timeline.
How do you meet the Professor again? Just visiting Area Zero in postgame?
Kitakami
That makes a lot of sense.
Read the notebook at the bottom of the Underdepths elevator that you ignored.
go to Kitakami crystal lake.
You need to talk to Briar to get her book and then go to Crystal Lake where you fought the Milotic
So you are saying Heath wrote the page with the science bullshit himself since the beginning? He wasn't as scientist, it doesn't makes sense, paradox aside
Terapagos can spontaniously displace People and Pokemon across space time within the same universe.
Sada/Taro tested the time machine using Terapagos scutes using Blair's book they got from the protag.
The time machine displaced the Paradoxmons around the same time Heath is on his expedition to the crater.
The Paradoxmons were then replaced to the present day.
The time machine were left on after the rogue box legendary killed Arven's Parents.
ParadoxMons are Temporal Mons, Displaced by the Time Machine Arven Parents built. The lack of fossils regarding Past Temporal mons were actually an oversight by the script writers as they wanted their stories to be synced with minor differences (like the Aqua/Magma feud in RSE/ORAS).
You forgot to place Past/Future in Heath's time.
>You forgot to place Past/Future in Heath's time.
We don't know if they're actually there or not. The only thing that matters is the transfer of information. If we take what Arven says as a clue, Paradox Pokemon don't exist in Area Zero before the Time Machine.
They do exist before the time machine,
just that the time machine accidentally drops them off there.
>They do exist before the time machine,
Correct, in the ancient past and distant future
>just that the time machine accidentally drops them off there.
This causes complications with removing them. The paradox does not require them existing in the past. If Heath enters Area Zero, discovers Terapagos, and meets the Professor to exchange information, that's the only thing that matters.
Doesn't make sense because the Paradox Pokemon still aren't from the past or future.
>they aren't from the past or future because I said so
No, because the game said so.
The only person who thinks otherwise in-game is the professor who read it from Occulture which only timegays believe.
>The only person who thinks otherwise in-game is the professor who read it from Occulture which only timegays believe.
False. Every Pokemon is described - oftentimes mentioned directly - in their respective books. Occulture only added insane and whacky theories.
We now know the Professor originally intended to hunt for them in other timelines before we put the idea in their heads that they Paradoxes are from the past/future.
>Occulture only added insane and whacky theories.
Like them being from the past/future. Yeah.
Please keep up, it's getting a little tiring waiting for sudachi2.5.
The only person in the game that thinks they come from other timelines is the professor, who you then give Briar's book to that tells them otherwise. I'm glad to see you again schizo! Even now after you got utterly BTFO'd you're still here trying. I still can't find those new volumes of Occulture you said was going to be added!
>Both timetravelgays and imaginationgays were wrong and the game just poorly explains paradox mons are from different timelines.
I was honestly expecting something like this. Can paradox mons be considered ultra beasts now?
They're not from different timelines, speed reader.
They're effectively exactly like ultra beasts except they look like Pokemon we are familiar with hence why there's so much in-universe confusion.
Mistranlation
It's Time Period, not Time Lines.
no
But in english they're from different timelines right? Because gamefreak did not explain this well at all.
Once again, localization error.
Sada/Taro states they're researching a means to to bring in pokemon form different time periods, not time lines.
I don't think you're understanding me anon, I don't care what the Japanese explanation is, I care about how it was explained in English. If there's two different explanations, it makes the most sense to use the one from your own language.
If I say I want Bread and a French person fricks up translation and says I want Breading, then the French would be wrong if they gave me breading. You ALWAYS go with the original language
Ultra Beasts' ultraboost ability being a permanent ability to activate a totem aura suggests they are some kind of evolution or mutation of previous pokemon thanks to Necrozma's radiation (remember the totem sites are special because they are bathed in Necrozma's light more than other places in the region) so I would say the difference is that UB are straight up mutants (fitting considering Necrozma's Z-move is a nuke reference) while paradox pokemon are normal "in this universe pokemon are just like this" parallel worlds
does terapagos exist in each timeline as a different pokemon, or does he exist in all of them at the same time?
Given all of this bullshit ties back to Terapagos, its going to be there. All it takes for one of them to be in a universe with an ancient and futuristic world.
weird thought, but the fact it can be either sex makes me wonder if it's just a species of legendary the way that latios and latias are, like it's just a normal Pokemon somewhere else
Holy frick please with the multiple timelines posts.
>please just ignore we traded books unlike the previous timeline, there aren't different timeleines because I said so
>DURR THEY DIDN'T SPOIL THEY GIVE YOU THEIR COPY OF THE BOOK SO OBVIOUSLY IT'S A NEW TIMELINE
Dipshit needs to be spoonfed to understand anything.
anon you lost, nobody is going to believe that dumb shit with so many implications about different timelines. It's time to let it go, both timecucks and imaginationgays were wrong
just say multiple copies
they got multiple copies of the same damn book.
There is a timeline where you traded books and they seem significantly less likely to go off rails.
Sure, cite your source.
Professor have multiple copies of the same damn book.
They only gave you a signed version.
Explain how Sada's/Turo's copy of the Book existed in our timeline.
>signed
Anon it says clumsy handwriting. It's their precious childhood book.
Have you ever watched Back to the Future?
>Explain how Sada's/Turo's copy of the Book existed in our timeline.
The one Arven has is a forged copy, same reason he doesn't recognize it as his parents' when you meet him in his dorm room.
The frick are you talking about?
Let me guess, you think there IS a "mega timeline" too?
How do illiterategays see one thing happen in game and interpret the direct opposite? Is this the power of time travel cope?
God you homosexuals are insufferable. However bad Gen 10 is you deserve it.
>I lost because I can't speak Japanese
This might be the stupidest "rebuttal" I ever got
And at the end of the day, despite everything, we STILL have to keep waiting and hoping we get a concrete explanation of what Terapagos and by extension the Tera Crystals that spawned from its desperate attempt to persevere can actually fricking do.
Hope you're ready to suffer a weekly kodomo anime in vague hopes that you'll get ANYTHING to grasp to, loregays.
I don't think we have the peach guy or the other paradox pokemon in the game yet, so maybe loregays can get something with that?
The peach event is already in the game. There are no more paradoxes.
Loregays got fricked then. They deserved it for shitting up threads for so long, but I still feel a little bad for them
Lore and competitive are the only reasons people still play these gay-ass games. Pokemon world is cool, there's a lot of cool stories to be had and fans want to live in it, if it weren't for that no one would give Game Freak the time of day.
The Paradoxes are your reward for completing Perrin's sidequest in Kitakami and filling your Pokedex to 200 in Blueberry. Once she gives you her hot tip, one static instance each of Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire or Iron Crown and Iron Boulder appear in Area Zero.
Pecharunt's event, Mochi Madness, is already fully programmed in the game and has its contents in the script dump, it's just that there's no way to obtain the Perfect Pecha Berry needed to start the event yet.
>suffer
horizon's great
Its also an anime so if you care about game lore you wont get shit either case.
Same fundamental worlds, so anything Terapagos is explicitly stated of performing in the anime will ultimately help shape our understanding of how it functions in the games, which will allow us to draw better conclusions of what the frick it and the Tera Crystals can actually do since they play a major role in the story.
>game literally has the professor at the lake say they're from a different timeline
>it makes sure to even make the two timelines different by introducing the fact that the alt timeline professor gave away their cherished book, while the professor from "our" timeline still had the book
>"NOOOOO THEY'RE WRONG THERE'S ACTUALLY ONLY ONE TIMELINE AND THE PROFESSOR HAD TWO BOOKS THE WHOLE TIME BUT CONVENIENTLY DIDN'T MENTION IT!!!!"
How did you homosexuals even survive into adulthood?
How did imagination work out for you?
But imaginationgays were the ones who were ignoring things that were EXPLICITLY SAID IN THE FRICKING GAME and inventing headcanons to fit their theory. Exactly the same thing that only-one-timelinegays are doing now. Inventing an entire fricking book just to ignore what the game actually said.
If the game used the professor to say they were from a different timeline, then they were from a different timeline. There's no red herring here. The game isn't lying to you. Stop being schizophrenic.
The world would be a very different place if the scene where Arven questions the logic of Heath encountering Paradox Pokemon prior to the Time Machine's construction didn't exist.
It would be a detail no one would care about, and as a result 95% of this discourse wouldn't be so rampant, destined to feedback loop eternally now that we know SV is another game with loose ends that will never be touched on until a new writer comes in and rewrites the story for the remake's new postgame scenario.
>But imaginationgays were the ones who were ignoring things that were EXPLICITLY SAID IN THE FRICKING GAME and inventing headcanons to fit their theory.
You mean timetraveltards, since there's nothing supporting the idea that they come from the past/future except the magazine we know to be fake.
They are from the past/future anon. Just not the past/future of the regular pokémon timeline.
There's a world out there where everything was dinosaurs in the past, there's another world out there where everything will be robots in the future. These are not the world the games are set in, but they definitely exist.
The only things that were lies in the game were the Occulture descriptions, because they were just assumptions made by people who had no idea what these pokémon actually were, and trying to come up with some (often crazy) explanations for their existence. And the game made sure to point out that these descriptions were bullshit, by constantly referring to Occulture as "dubious".
it's like that gay "if you do something different it turns into a completely different universe" thing, right?
If so, likely the universe the SV protagonist is in is "done." The BW remakes and future games would probably be in the universe where the prof never dies, that never has the paradoxes. That would be a neat and tidy way to make those Pokemon contained only to SV since they don't function the way hisui or fossil pokemon do.
SV also mentions mega evolution, so if that universe is DONE then that's another way to retcon mega evolution once and for all.