How can the MMO genre be fixed? If you had full control and a big budget, what would the next major MMO do differently?
How can the MMO genre be fixed? If you had full control and a big budget, what would the next major MMO do differently?
How can the MMO genre be fixed? If you had full control and a big budget, what would the next major MMO do differently?
MMOs right now are just single player stories with a co-op component. We need to go back to simulating virtual worlds with priority placed on player freedom, but it would lose the casual audience because they wouldn't be able to stand not being the hero who is guaranteed to see all the content in the game.
>pay for content
>not be able to see content
>good thing
moron
Kill WoW and FFXIV while getting rid of players who want an MMO that holds their hand like .
How is wanting to experience the content you fricking paid for holding hands? You people are insufferable.
git gud
Nobody is impressed that you're "gud" at video games, Aiden. Video games are the only medium on Earth that expects paying customers to pass some kind of entrance exam to access what they already paid for. I'm not saying eliminating death or something, but this idea of making a blind choice that locks you out of content down the road that you didn't even know about is asinine and anti-consumer.
git gud
You can stop multi responding to pretend anyone agrees with you any time now. People buy content, they get content, that works in every medium but gaming, and even in gaming it works in every genre except for some sliver of arrpeegees where autistic shitbags think paying for something and not getting it is cool. Frick off.
>i want this genre that isnt meant for me to cater to my desire for instant gratification
Spoken like a XIV diapergay.
Not even. At least in XIV you actually have to TRY. That gay sounds like a Life is Strange fan where you can rewind to the branching paths to see more millenials angst.
>XIV
>try
Thats why Steps of Faith was nerfed after more than half the community couldnt access HW or why they introduced normal raids cause Coils was considered too hard for Story content. Nah XIV is a diapergay game where people rather spend $1000+ monthly on Fantasia, Billboards and ERP than play the game.
>that works in every medium but gaming
It's amazing how moronic you are when you spelled out the answer as to why Video Games expect you to earn your keep. Video Games are one of the most unique mediums for that reason alone. Either git gud or frick off and watch a movie.
>sliver of arrpeegees
Super Bosses, secret endings, items and quests that arent ever actively tracked and the like are common among RPGs homosexual. Other games also force you play the fricking game to see shit. If you're so concerned about having to play then maybe go watch a Movie. MMOs need to filter frickers like you out of the genre as its clear that catering to morons who don't actually like games is what killed it. You have been given the tools to reach any and all content in a Video Game once you pay for it. Don't want to use said tools to reach certain content cause its too hard or you dont think its worth it? Tough shit, either git gud or realize you bought something not meant for you.
>this idea of making a blind choice that locks you out of content down the road that you didn't even know about is asinine and anti-consumer
I dunno where you got the idea of people 'making blind choices' from, or how that relates to anything previously stated.
You're not buying a movie ticket, you're buying a gym membership and wondering why you can't be a weightlifter in the olympics.
oh piss off. you want no challenge and a guide for everything
Get good at the game you paid for Black person
What content? Rehashed gay monster of the expansion stories where you defeat fascist boogeymen who try to destroy the world for the 999th time?
I forgot that FFXIV somehow casualized the WoW formula more and made people think they need to experience all content without trying. You ARR WoWgays ruined what could have been a great reboot. Gatekeeping homosexuals who don't want to get good should always be a constant in any MMO.
>anti-consumer
Get good and you'll see the content homosexual. The only thing denying you access is yourself.
>buy a movie
>can't see the third act unless you pass an exam
>buy a meal, but be forced to answer a seemingly random question first
>your answer determines whether or not you get to finish - surprise!
fricking stupid
Fricking scrub
>comparisons that dont make sense
Git gud gay. Keep reaching.
Your logic is flawed. Video games are an interactive medium. As much as the AAA industry wants to turn them into "Choose your own adventure" style movies with graphics that would melt a toaster, you still need to actually TRY to play the game to see it's content.
>Play Elden Ring
>be a shitter
>too lazy to keep playing
>want to see final boss
>can't
same shit, git gud you moronic, entitled homosexual. Whats holding you back from completing ER? the same thing thats holding you back from being in a top end guild and seeing all the content, YOU homosexual.
Is like a long-ass movie. Around the half it starts to get tedious until the ending.
You are correct that people should be able to get what they pay for. If someone is paying $15 per month, then they should get something out of that. I am not going to pretend to be an economist, or a developer, or anything like that for this next statement. World of Warcraft earned Activision-Blizzard over $2 billion in three months alone, from subscriptions and microtransactions.
If a developer is making roughly $8 billion annually, then there needs to be something put into the game to reflect that. The model that old Blizzard wanted was that more money coming in meant more product going out; that's no longer the case. Players are paying for a product that is, de facto, "unfinished". You will -not- see content that you paid for under a current WoW model.
Then, consider games where you pay only one fee up front, and then microtransactions if you're a whale. That's considerably less money going in, which means less product coming out. This is the current model for WoW's competitors. This means that development can go one of two ways:
A) Players pay money, get to end-game, there's not enough end-game content because it can't be made fast enough because developers can't produce it due to being so few in number, and players leave. You've seen the content, but you quit after one month and wait for the next patch;
B) Players pay money, the developers force cooperation by implementing difficulty into the overworld, and form organic partnerships rather than following a Twitch streamer around because the game is no longer totally single-player, which leads to lasting friendships. End-game content remains a far-off objective because it's difficult to reach it, giving developers breathing room to produce the next piece of end-game.
A certainly is more purchaser-friendly, but does not help with keeping a game alive. B is more difficult to actually make happen, but to those of us who played WoW as our first MMO back in 2004-2008, that means something.
>You will -not- see content that you paid for under a current WoW model.
The only thing that matters. I don't pay for food and then not get to eat it.
Go on, say some more stupid shit.
>Pay for a buffet
>Don't eat a few things at the buffet
>Hurr i want a refund I didn't get to experience everything I paid for
Frick off moron
Your analogy is poor (and food-related). If you pay for a buffet, and the buffet doesn't actually have its spread out but does have some amazing spring rolls, you should be given a refund because you're not buying a buffet, you're buying spring rolls.
>and food-related
why are you half wit zoom zooms so autistic about this now? you're too stupid to follow analogy anyways, is it somehow worse when there's a hamburger in it?
Not an argument, moon cricket.
>Players are paying for a product that is, de facto, "unfinished". You will -not- see content that you paid for under a current WoW model.
Because what you mean is you want the content to be easily accessible to your b***h ass with no time investment or skill, which inherently waters down the entire experience. I seriously hope you get eaten by a bear or something.
I have a job to display skills in. I come back from work and wanna click buttons and see cool effects. If you want skill in a videogame, you're a sad NEET
then play any of the already existing big MMORPGs out there, or any triple A single player game. The thread's question was how to FIX the MMORPG genre, not how to keep the lowest common denominator engaged.
have a nice day, Black person.
watch a let's play, you buffoon
>go to a gym
>WOOOOOOWWWWW, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO LIFT THESE HEAVY WEIGHTS?! GREAT FRICKING DESIGN, I BET THOSE ROID SWEATS ARE REALLY HAPPY BUT I’M NOT!
>MAKE THEM ALL 1KG SO A REASONABLE PERSON CAN DEADLIFT THEM!!!
Please find the nearest bridge and jump off
>buy guitar
>wtf i can't instantly do heavy metal sweep appregios
moron.
zoom zoom
This is bait but people really do think like this. It's why people get so autistically angry when they play something like a Bioware RPG or The Witcher and they can't get they're "perfect" run where they do everything.
no one wants to do that
enjoy the dead game
pretty much. Runescape had the best model
>you're just a guy in the world who goes around helping people
>there's different regional questlines rather than a single overarching story
>constant updates with new quests.
>quests are interesting and have point and click adventure elements
>rather than a single overarching story
I haven't no-lifed enough to get to a GM quest but isn't that what those are? I thought they linked the various storylines together from what I read up on one a long time ago
RS has a great foundation, but there should be a LOT more quests that require partying up considering the genre. I remember when I played there were like 2
Not him but they have small crossovers, but no they don't really intersect. I am talking about OSRS however, RS3's intersect a bit more but there are still lot's of unique storylines that have almost no link to other ones but are still interesting in their own way
No one has time for that shit outside of autists an none of you have actual income.
right. MMOs are a genre for autists. People with jobs and lives shouldn't play them.
But video games are for children. Doesn't everybody know that?
problem is that bots are so advanced now that they ruin those kinds of games
imagine some of that subscription money into actually operating the game, and solving one of the most basic server moderation tasks.
It should always be a single player experience first and foremost, but it must also have a seamless multiplayer elements such that it doesn't cause a hassle.
Permanent, linear equipment is the problem.
Define the most important aspect of a sandbox.
>Define the most important aspect of a sandbox.
exploration. if you don't understand this then you shouldn't bother making a sandbox game
Players aren't going to play all day every day to roam around and sightsee.
high budget chimeralands
It is a fun sandbox mmo where you can build houses everywhere and craft shit, but the problem is that it is janky as frick
Get rid of homosexuals like this (
)
that want to use MMOs to play house and dress up.
>grown man yells loudly while performing actions in video games
wow this youtube video is peak """humor"""
>grown man yells loudly
you meant "content creator"
Remove most of the rpg part, make it a real fricking game where you do something besides left click and watch cooldowns.
You mean add back the rpg part. mmos havent been rpgs for nearly two decades
More animal women and marriage.
It took me 16 years to realize that flaming ball is coming from a gnome mage in the back, not the dwarf's gun.
I'm glad I was not the only one seeing this for a decade.
I have never seen that gnome before was she always there?
Honestly?
Allow people to host their own servers instead of using data centers.
MMOs as we know them are a deeply flawed genre by design, as they rely on the developer to host servers to contain everyone, and even run code on the back end so certain events can even happen in-game. Meaning if it the servers shut down, they're done. On top of that the maintenance costs for servers necessitates a subscription based payment service on top of any additional expenses such as DLC expansions and microtransactions the devs might want to add in the future.
By allowing players to make and host their own servers they would allow an effectively infinite lifespan for their games. It's not the early 2000's anymore where you can have the excuse of people not being able to run 24-man raids without their systems exploding. It'll also keep players from souring at the idea of your MMO since it won't feel like they wasted thousands of hours (and possibly thousands in cash) when the servers go down, because, y'know, they won't.
The entire point of the developer hosting the servers is that they are in control of the important player and world information such as levels hp, etc. If you are okay with your player not being able to move around to servers other than a given player's own servers then sure go for it or if you have a character on a player run server and then another on an official that would work too of course. But if you want to be able to play on official dev servers then you won't be able to with the same character if you previously played on a player's server because the player is in control of all of that important information above at that point and obviously they can change everything and nothing is official anymore at that point
>Allow people to host their own servers instead of using data centers.
Sounds like Legends of Aria.
Look at wow and all its shitty private servers with barely 200 people in them
A sequel to anarchy online that keeps all the mechanics and game world the exact same but just improves control scheme, ui, and graphics.
>its a "boomer MMOgays are unable to cope with the fact that the old style of MMOs will never work in todays zoomer controlled market" thread
I'D DO A MIDSCOPE MMO WHERE IT'S BALLS TO THE WALL HARD. NO MINIMAP. NO QUEST MARKERS. EXP LOST ON DEATH. ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLO. LESS FOCUS ON PREMADE STORYLINES. TONS OF VENUES FOR SOCIAL INTERACTION (INCLUDING ERP), BASICALLY FFXI-2.
Gw2-esque horizontal progression in a VR MMO.
when you die you die in real life
no datamining
Reminder
Jesus Christ the morons here that want everything handed to them. Why are you even playing video games? Just watch a movie or something.
been thinking about this recently:
dungeons/raids/exploration content has traps that reshuffle every so often
they rarely give direct damage, and a few can be walked around/through, but you have to go through and suffer a debuff
if there's a trapmaster/rogue on your team they can save the trap for an encounter; if it's a large party kind of thing, there won't be many traps but one disarmed trap gets replicated across every rogue
chef class (not a job or profession) that specializes in cooking that fills a hunger bar and maybe non-health buffs, so it wouldn't be a trinity class
i'm praying that a competent dev steals these ideas, even better if a game already does this
it can't be fixed until every wow playing subhuman dies out. the fact that anyone thinks wow is good or was ever good is the problem and now these people think they know what makes a good mmo. wow was the fortnite of its time and responsible for commodifying nerd culture. really wow is responsible for gayming becoming mainstream and all the normalgay garbage that brought with it. runescape is also somewhat at fault too since it was always for poor kids
>think they know what makes a good mmo
which is?
WoW was lightning in a bottle because Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr had yet to exist for the public until after it had come out. WoW was socialization for hundreds of thousands of losers. Current MMOs actively discourage socialization because of their punitive Terms of Agreement.
no, it was normalgay garbage, shit head. wow wasn't the first mmo, it was the biggest one. you had fricking dave chappelle who was the biggest name at the time name dropping world of warcraft. you had a south park episode made about it which was the biggest comedy show at the time
>muh socialization
you don't know what the frick that word means. you think just chatting about nonsense or listening to some homosexual raid leader bark orders at you is socialization but you completely miss the point and i don't care enough to explain it to you because those days before wow aren't ever coming back
cringe moron
nice argument
you are the last person anyone should ever listen to about MMO design you insufferable homosexual.
Socialising and interacting with other people online is the entire POINT of mmos, sologays who want to do everything by themselves like they're playing a single player RPG are cringe and should frick off and go play their actual genre of choice.
The problem is that there are few real mmo games, where the gameplay is not a single RPG that has been shoved into MMOs. The plot of a real MMO should be about factions, not about individual personalities, and quests should not have a main character, but have a task for the group.
Nah I socialize just fine in mmos, I just know not to be a Black person in them. Been playing MMOs for 17 years and have yet to be banned
>wow is good or was ever good
It is though
MMOs before WoW were non existent garbage. Theres a reason no one name drops the older MMOs. They were objectively bad and boring and no one should bother with them. Games with no real gameplay or anything worth exploring.
Pull your head outta your ass maybe?
This honestly is the case, wow has ruined mmos for 18 years and ffxiv just changed it up by having it so you don’t have to be like wow to be a decent game. ESO is also decent but devs need to get into their heads that endgame raiding isn’t meant to be were the “real” game starts.
i dont get how having to play with other people in an mmo and not being willing to do that equals not getting to see the content you paid for, its a point thats not usually actually addressed and the arguments take place like it makes sense immediately which it doesn't
Content should always have a solo version and group version. People who want to group, can, people who don't want to deal with dumbasses and just want to vibe for a bit, can. There's no justification for forcing people to play a game you're way.
>solo version
no have a nice day
If people want to group, they can. If people don't want to group, why force them to group? You're thinking like a child.
If people don't want to group, why would they play a multiplayer game? What rational person purchases a chess set for themselves and asks for no one else to play with them?
Because they want to play the content? What rational person sees a person playing chess their way and throws a sperg out fit because of it? People don't have to play their games your way.
Okay, I will run with your logic that someone purchases a game and chooses to play it their way. However, the game in question is a multiplayer game where everyone is forced to cooperate. Suppose that the chess set was purchased at the same price between two people, and one wants to play with the other person, but the other wants to play the game by themselves. Board games, by definition, are multiplayer games. MMOs, by definition, are a multiplayer game. Everyone is mutually purchasing for the same price the same product. Why should the game be forced to accommodate those who wish to play it differently than how the genre is intended? Wouldn't it behoove the person who purchased the chess set to purchase a simulator to play against an AI or themselves?
>forced to cooperate
>forced
Therein lies the problem, the unforced, optional problem.
If you're playing Canasta, is it an unforced, optional problem to have a partner? Or Bridge? Or any other game that is designed around cooperation? Or are you trying to say that MMOs should be treated like Mario Party games when we use the definition of "multiplayer" where everyone is on the same footing?
Are instances content that should be cleared solo? Raids? PvP, WvW, GvG? Are guilds unnecessary and redundant? Is grouping unnecessary? Should everyone be given the option to have their own layer so they can play an MMO without having to interact with anyone? How do you resolve kill-stealing? How do resolve gangs of players targeting a solo player who doesn't want to partner up?
What, SPECIFICALLY, is your problem with cooperation?
The game design that encourages grouping is what enables the social features and multiplayer aspects of the game dumbass.
Otherwise it’s not MMO it’s just RPG
If grouping has to be "encouraged" and can't stand on its own merits, maybe its understandable why people sometimes prefer to just experience the story solo. Things that are actually enjoyable don't usually need to be "encouraged".
It’s not that it’s not enjoyable, it’s because it requires effort to socialise and group, and players will take the path of least resistance to reach the goal. If there is no benefit to grouping players won’t do it because it’s less efficient.
The game designer’s job is to make the route to the goal a fun experience.
Have you ever tried to make a game or even thought about it?
>solo version
So an RPG? But this is an MMORPG. The MMO stands for massively multiplayer online
All content having a solo option and a game being massive and multiplayer aren't mutually exclusive.
Go play any other offline rpg if you want single player content. MMOs are meant for multiplayer
>There's no justification for forcing people to play a game you're way.
Then why are you buying a game whose genre is based on playing with other people moron. You have single player games if you want solo shit. Why do homosexuals always come into genres and try and change it into shit that isn't even close to the genre's philosophy. It's like Magicgays complaining that YGO isn't like Magic but in MMO form.
You're the problem with MMO designers. Either make a single player RPG, coop RPG, or a fricking MMO.
An MMO should ONLY be made if you say to yourself "I want to design a persistent, living world with that being the core mechanic and or driving force behind the game". Slapping dungeons, raids or a guild tab has fricking nothing to do with an MMO. Having a persistent economic system, player driven politics and factions, a world influenced by player actions is what an MMO is and used to be.
You WILL be banned for raiding an in-game funeral service, and YOU WILL LIKE IT.
An exception case of how Blizzard no longer understands what their game should be offering.
Holding an ingame funeral in an MMO for someone is great. Raiding that funeral and being a dickhead is also great. Shit like this is the blood of an MMO. Its sad as frick the greatest WoW moments were classified as mistakes by Blizzard like the blood plague.
People want to feed their ego and feel success. They don’t realise the enjoyment is the journey to the goal, not the goal itself.
It’s the same people who pay to have games completed for them so they don’t have to play the game they paid for.
>They don’t realise the enjoyment is the journey to the goal, not the goal itself.
This statement alone divides the WoW community to this day, even though it really is about the journey and not the destination.
Super Mario MMO. Raid bosses are turtys
I wanna crush mad turts in sup Mario's MMO
perchance
Sonic MMO
Frick MMOs.
I just want a fantasy Deep Rock Galactic. 99% of the fun from an MMO is doing dungeons/content with randoms taking in your customised build/aesthetics.
Always online servers are a complete fricking meme, waste of resources and time. They offer literally nothing special at all.
>muh living breathing world!
WoWs world is static, XIV is not an MMO, New World is a WoW clone. Only EvE, Everquest and Albion actually benefit from persistent servers and all that showed us is inevitably all persistence reaches guild/alliance stagnation.
I wouldnt mind a fantasy DRG is they also added like 30x the content. You play an hour of DRG you've seen the whole game. Maybe I've been infected by the zooner virus but basic gameplay and cosmetics on a stick arent enough for me anymore.
As long as there is a metric frickton of ability choice/builds it would easily be replayable
I suppose that would help too. I liked to play engineer but all the weapons were terrible so builds didnt matter to me.
mmo genre is dead bub. give it up. it was only interesting 10 years ago because it was new and novel for the vast majority of people. the normal-ish folks were the ones that socialized and made things interesting. now all that's left are autists running away from real life who take it all too seriously. catering to these autists and exploiting their weakness is the only way to make money with this genre currently.
Simple. Make a modern, as in technology, remake of Ragnarok Online or Guild Wars 1.
make them all mechanically simple yet bery grindy like OSRS, dungeons and raids become very low priority
MMOs die once you hit max level because the grind is the game, running the same raids every day for aesthetic loot is fricking boring
Too many homosexuals against levelling nowadays but they don’t even know why they’re against it.
We just end up with alternate shitty max level progression systems that are just levelling but more complicated and worse.
>Too many homosexuals against levelling nowadays
that's a vocal minority, all of my friends who i got into MMOs, enjoyed leveling and exploring the world much more than they enjoyed lategame content
leveling your first character is the only good part of an MMO, and the fact that people zoom through this stage to grind dungeons is the reason the genre is dying
The biggest thing I hate is how they make the optimal path to levelling be the shitty "main quest" storyline bollocks and completely kill XP gains from anything else. God I miss older MMOs.
Is that any worse than someone like Jame creating speedleveling guides for WoW, causing massive congestion in low-level zones because "time-wasting", "grindy", or "difficult" quests were rejected, resulting in a dozen players standing around in Westfall waiting for Defias bandits to respawn?
Kek I used this guide for classic while everyone was trying to dungeon spam. When I was 60 I was still seeing a majority of people spamming for scarlet monastery trying to copy streamers.
I didn't go back to Classic since I'm a recovering addict, and forgot that the hot news was dungeon farming. I wasn't upset that people were doing the same thing autistically by that news since MMOs are an autismfest, but rather that this entire explorable world wasn't being explored.
Love it or hate it, when I played GW2, having a personal story that motivates you to explore and having meta events that encourage players to go back to older zones was a very nice thought. I guess WoW had the same thing with ganking... Regardless, I can't blame developers for half-assing their content. No one cares enough to be in it, anymore.
Of course it's worse. There is always going to be some homosexual who is going to optimise the fun out of the game and there is nothing you can do about that but guess what, they get bored eventually and do little damage to the longevity of the game. I saw that shit happen hundreds of times in just ragnarok online, they never stick around.
full
loot
pvp
no
safe
zones
Those dont work. The amount of people that actuall want that it too small to support an MMO
cmon it'd be fun! now people have a reason to work with their friends the entire time they're online instead of being solo super stars.
Albion
Online
Black
Zone
Living
Or just EvE world home living.
Eve is almost correct, but I need a Wizards and Warriors approach to get excited, that space stuff doesn't do it for me. Essentially I want the WoW interface and combat but the ability to kill other players and take all their shit.
Albion online is literally that.
It has a terrible interface and graphics though. I really gave it a try and it felt like driving an old gigantic car.
I'd tell you to play WoW ascension in high risk mode but that mode is dead because RPPG PvP is trash no matter what you do.
The other problem is wow private servers have always been kind of off and it got much worse after classic official released.
thats pretty much why I consider ascension to be the best one. Doesnt matter how "off" it is since its damn near its own thing now.
The primary issue with WoW private servers is that they are PvP. There are many secondary issues, like the Asians, the development team, planting miners onto people's hard drives, and stealing personal information, of course. But it's the PvP that's the issue.
Now, I love PvP. On a live server, I will play on a PvP one. In other MMOs, I ignore PvE entirely and focus on PvP. I want to be clear that this isn't PvEer coping.
WoW is a "solved" game, especially for Classic through Wrath. There are people who started with AOL chat rooms that have moved on to Discord that have played WoW since its inception. They speed-rush private servers because it's all they know how to do, and they enjoy being the big kids on the playground, and they ALWAYS go Horde for WotF and orc stun resist.
You, me, and Jack over there might like exploring and maybe fighting other players when we get into Ashenvale, but these frickers get pre-raid BiS and clear Molten Core within four days. And, since private servers either don't have BWL ready OR have broken raids all the way through Naxx, we end up with overpowered, bored bullies who gang other players still in their early-30s level-wise.
Lowbie Allies don't want to participate and quit, the Horde overwhelms the server, lowbie Hordes get bored and leave and the bullies, without anyone to bully, leave as well, causing a player desert and killing the private server.
From what i've seen, pvpers generally dont want pvp. They want victims.
Which is fine when players are on similar footing, or there can be an answer for ganking. Yes, it's more likely that a pair of level 30 players will target one other level 30 player, rather than the other way around. Yes, it's more likely that a level 60 player who can't cut the mustard will go gank a level 30 player. However, all three of the level 30 players will usually be in a vicinity where either side can get more players to fight with and against each other. Even if the level 60 player ganks someone, in a reasonable environment, aid can be called so another, or several, level 60 players can respond to the attacks.
In these private servers, there is no answer to the level 60 bullies because no other group that could match their pace has the desire to poopsock for four days just to protect slow-leveling strangers.
The solution for ganking is a good crime and justice system like archeage.
I thought internal "reputation" systems were a failed concept that never really materialized. This Archeage system penalty would only work if there is no subscription fee, since preventing players from actually playing for using a mechanic that's available in the game is a terrible concept.
Now if you give me a fully-realized reputation system where the objective isn't to be exalted with every faction, then I'll be on-board. Killing other players results in a penalty with neutral groups, and a promotion with faction-specific groups. Spending too long without PvPing results in reputation decay for faction-specific groups, but you maintain your reputation with neutral groups.
So, using groups from WoW as an example, as an orc, killing Alliance players boosts the reputation one has with Orgrimmar and the other major capitals and the Warsong Outriders and other PvP groups, but ends up hurting your standing with groups like the Argent Dawn or Booty Bay. After all, why would the goblins want a famous military commander near their shipments, and why would the Argent Dawn, a multi-race group, want anything to do with someone who kills others?
Mortal online 1+2 are testament to how terrible that game style is, you are a fun parasite player who wants to gank those weaker than yourself, nobody should listen to you for MMO design advice either. Josh stryfe hayes made a half hour video breaking down your ideas and exposing them for the tripe they are.
@608113350
Cool, don't care, stay mad and wrong lmao
>so mad he can't even reply properly
I accept your concession. Please accept my apology for slavery. I hope you make it back to Africa soon.
reminder without world of warcraft the big bang theory wouldn't exist. then again this board is full of newbie reddit garbage so they would probably think that's a bad thing
Make the greatest MMO of all time but ruin it like 3 years in by taking the worst aspects of WoW and Korean Shovelware.
Close the game down and be extremely litigious with anyone that even THINKS about trying to make some kind of their own servers or a revival mod.
In fact I'll create a super secret elitist discord just to dangle the now dead game in front of people and make them jump through hoops just to give them a poorly working shitty version that's tweaked, changed and overturned to suck ass with tons of quest dialogue and lore being rewritten to be quippy and full of bad references, which will alienate old players and deter new players until the project dies of neglect but I'll still say I'm working on it, while taking donations even though I stopped working on it years ago.
Can someone please explain to me the psychology of sologays? Why would they buy a game, specifically labeled 'multiplayer' and then complain when they have to play with other people?
Is this referencing a certain game?
Valid based solo players are wanting to play an MMO and be a peaceful farmer/trader/crafter in a persistent world helping people on their adventures and sometimes defending themselves.
Invalid solohomosexualry are people who want to self isolate and run dungeons/raids/all of a games content in a bubble isolated from any sense of a world or other players.
That's not playing solo, unless they're selling their goods to a vendor. They gather crafting reagents to sell to other players. They trade on whatever auction house service their is to help other players meet their needs, while also meeting their own. They craft equipment because it is either aesthetically pleasing and will make themselves stand out from other players, or it is a statistical improvement to help them perform better in comparison to other players. There is no such thing as a solo player in a multiplayer game unless they are on their own server with no other person.
Stop dumbing the system down. MMOs should be more than just right-clicking. Have systems in place that require or, at the very least, benefit somewhat from coop. Like crafting or fighting random enemies in the middle of nowhere. No matchmaking bullshit that forces you into meta "let's get this done quick and go our separate ways"
Also, for roleplay/immersion reasons, give decently good reasons to return to different "major" cities. Those places are usually designated by the creators but they don't ever receive updates. They need to. Take WoW for instance - is there any reason why you should go to Silvermoon? Any good gear or crafting items? There should be.
Unfortunately the game is currently going the opposite way. They’re ushering in seasons in an effort to promote mythic dungeon speed running as an esport.
Blizzard needs to stop invalidating content as soon as the next patch or expansion happens. Why would you kill off 15 years of content
@608113682
Cool, don't care, stay mad and wrong lmao
I would take MMOs to irl, full loot PvP, but trannies, gays, etc are perma-skulled like in Runescape
Gmaul spec out a homosexual
Remember when gmaul spec hit your max
Better days.
I remember way, way back, the old Varrock PvP spot past museum being hotshit
The memories
>How can the MMO genre be fixed
ban all data mining and wikis. Players should only share information through each other, not some external source where they can read every tiny detail before even playing the fricking game.
FRICK data miners
FRICK wikis.
Life is Feudal had a great system where the game had 40ish herbs with set names/looks. But the effects were random to each player (i.e. bristleweed for you might heal HP but for another player damage them).
It was amazing. No wiki could help you. You had to learn what herbs did what for you and make potions to sell. You also then got to trade your less useful herbs for more useful ones based on what traits you got from them.
Games should do that for literally everything. Forcing you to experiment to find what you need.
frickin'a that sounds awesome
Too bad the game got 0 players and died. To be fair digging a single trench took literally 4 people hours so might be that.
This is a huge one. Most of my reason for levelling up, doing dungeons etc beyond the gear was actually to see what’s in the next zone or beyond the next boss room.
Exploration is key, but when you have the entire of wowhead spelling stuff out for you and streamer homosexuals with alpha access spoiling the entire game months before release what’s even the point.
It’s like seeing a movie you already know what’s going to happen.
There's nothing to fix. MMOs were never anything more than glorified chatrooms and they never will be.
I want stats and armor to mean something again like they did in XI
>Wakfu stats pretty much exponentially inflated to the stratosphere, you got options for building but you can only use a piece of gear or set for 15 levels at most (max level at is 230)
>Dofus doesn't have this problem when leveling but level 200 (current max) is so bloated that there's straight upgrades to gear everywhere, yet it's more balanced than the game that came out later
I thought I had outgrown MMOs, but after playing on TurtleWoW for some days it just consumed my life exactly like it did when I first played vanilla wow. It`s the games, MMOs nowadays are complete garbage.
I want this experience of being alive in a world, of being just a fricking peon on this whole huge world, of slowly climbing the ranks and exploring, meeting npcs and finding people to go through quests together ORGANICALLY, make friends...
I played WOW BFA, GW2, FFXIV and all of those are just single player games for zoomers, no exploration at all, nobody communicates, no character customization, it`s a disgrace.
More: Narrative, Soul, Diversions, Hot b***hes, Deployable vehicles like Archeage
Less: Aggressive monetization, israeli Influence, Shitlib Idpol,
Obliterate exclusive cosmetics and microtransaction payments. MMOs should be, for the fullversion, subscription only (one off expansions not included and at reasonable intervals). Now this doesn't mean you can't sell NON exclusive cosmetics (provided that you don't make the ones able to be earned in game are rare specifically to encourage people to buy them instead), account services, boosters and the like, have a free trial or a more limited mode to help keep interest, population up etc etc... but frick the idea of exclusives and that cosmetic content is somehow not included and can be a surcharge. The main monetization should be the subscription and there can even be more expensive subscription options , as some oldgays may remember EverQuest Legends servers - where you got content a little earlier, what you did may end up naming something on all the other servers, and other bonuses. Way better than making cosmetics for sale a la carte or some stupid item mall
see
>Players are paying for a product that is, de facto, "unfinished". You will -not- see content that you paid for under a current WoW model.
The answer isn't "add lots of tedium". What is wrong with WoW has to do with lots of stuff rather than "we didn't force everyone to party up to kill a single fricking NPC, so one out of ten thousand times they'd talk in the downtime and make friends". Lots of stuff that made EverQuest and early MMOs great was in spite of their stupid tedium - it was the world building, the design etc. Now this doesn't mean things can't take time, but it should be meaningful - having the boat take 5 minutes to sail through the Ocean of Tears instead of instantly port to the other city was worth it because the OOT had a bunch of islands with rare monsters and quest shit on it, if you were brave enough to explore it. There was so much stupid tedium and the reason WoW in the old days people liked it was because it did EQ-like stuff in some ways (ie the Emerald Dragons sleeping off the path in certain areas. Raid bosses that were otherwise in LOW LEVEL areas! Thats an example of old world building) without the tedium - it had instanced dungeons so you didn;'t have to yell "camp check" , dying didn't mean losing hours or days of literal play etc... all good things. So yeah, the problem with WoW in ther modern area is design related but not monetization or becuase its "too easy" - rather it is too focused on a small amount of top level content. There's a reason people enjoy FFXIV all the way through , the story, and all the other shit besides the end game. In some ways they did better in this regarfd (though theyh fricked up even more with monetization far worse than even current WoW).
This is always the issue. During WoW's dominant heyday they had almost NO microtransactions - only a few "for charity" things (like the tsunami etc). You can make a ton of cash on just subscribers alone, but the greedy bullshit of those who think they could always get more and do less if they can sell a single outfit for $22 and an emote for $7 is the real problem
>Obliterate exclusive cosmetics and microtransaction payments. MMOs should be, for the fullversion, subscription only
That doesn't make a bajillion dollers, no deal
Let the MMO genre die
imagine how fricking autistic you have to be to make this image. all those screencaps. it must have taken hours and what point are they trying to make?
The majority of the appeal of MMOs, especially when they came out, was that you were in another world with other people on the internet.
1999-2008ish that was a major deal. Online shooters weren't nearly as popular as they are now and the entire idea of this stuff was a whole new novelty. People were more likely to treat it as such as well.
Plus nowadays the gameplay is so slow that people will do other things on the side, sit on their phone, etc. whereas people didn't have those luxuries as often back then either.
Look how differently WoW classic and TBC classic were played by the people than when it originally came out to see. MMOs and their appeal will never come back or be anything like what they used to be thanks to the internet becoming an everyday constant instead of something special to chat with people across the world.
Yes, mmo can be fixed if the developers stop pandering to the sweaty nolifers and start making a product for the majority of the population that doesn't spend 12 hours a day on the game.
The dev docs for the World of Darkness MMO sounded incredible, it would have changed the genre. Instead we got constant staff shifts back to EVE: Excel. Way to go.
>How can the MMO genre be fixed
Shut down all wiki sites.
"You cannot frick the future sir, the future fricks you."
Wikis are here. Adapt to that, or die.
1. put more focus on sustaining long trips in the overworld, not instanced content. end-game should mostly be about trying to find ways to farm a monster as long as possible, not merely getting kills from the comfort of full preparation, as down the latter path looms non-replayability.
2. some kind of automated contract system players can use to make the economy more nuanced. having a blockchain is unnecessary, but it should be possible to like sell futures contracts or have equity and shit
3. the game's graphics should be kind of garbage, for multiple reasons. for one, you want to make it as cheap as possible to churn out new content, as having new shit constantly appearing is the lifeblood of MMOs. besides that, having a game that looks really cheap also typically means a game that runs pretty easily, meaning people can leave it on in the background and on worse computers, driving a more vibrant community.
>How can the MMO genre be fixed?
The mmo genre advances one funeral at a time. Just wait for older mmos to fade away and newer ones can take it's place.
>cute girls
This doesn't conform with american core values.
Will fail
Hellgate: London. It was wayyyy ahead of its time.
The genre is stuck in 2004. They are all fundamentally looking at WoW instead of evolving.
Three fixes
Combat needs to be skill based not grind based. The best player should be the best at playing not the most autistic. It should also be challenging, force teamwork, but don't rely on DPS checks that encourage toxicity, let the good players shine and carry the weak players.
Currency needs to be done away with, it only leads to gold farming and bots, and inevitable real money trading for currency.
Content needs to be randomly generated and challenging. When you enter a dungeon with your bros, it should be a new experience, not just you following a youtube guide to be as efficient as possible.
None of these will happen.
>Content needs to be randomly generated and challenging. When you enter a dungeon with your bros, it should be a new experience
>None of these will happen
No shit, idiot, because your idea is "uhhh just make a magical system that randomly generates content that's good and challenging"
Explain to the class how you'd make that work on even a basic level
machine learning
Congrats the servers shidded themselves and there's loose copper wiring everywhere also all of the Indian ITs are dead from heatstroke
Left 4 Dead, Vermintide, Deep Rock Galactic. All of these games do this.
>Left 4 Dead, Vermintide
Hardly the same thing as custom dungeon
>Deep Rock Galactic
That only works in that game because you can modify the terrain, good luck making it work in an MMORPG
Rust, Minecraft and other online sandboxes with thousands of players on one server show that it can be done easily, you just have to think outside the box, but stupid MMO players are just not capable of it on a genetic level.
Now make it work for an MMO. The more complicated the gameplay, the harder "just make randomly generated X" becomes
>MMO
>Complicated
What fricking MMOs are you playing? Every one I've played is just a rotation masher for podcast listening.
"Complicated" in that the server is parsing a tremendous amount of data each second. At this point in time it is not financially viable to have your suggestion, it would require too much infrastructure and power to make it work.
>Now make it work for an MMO.
>rrreeeree, thousands of players playing simultaneously on one server, on one map(!) in Minecraft is not a massive multiplayer online because I said so
Classics from sweaty nolifers mmotards, they have convinced themselves that their crappy game is the best, because if they admit that their game is anything less, it will immediately turn out that the core of their personality is nothing. Go outside and touch grass, loser, MMOs are not difficult or complex, MMOs is a cope mechanism morons.
Compare the amount of triangles in an MMO's polygons compared to the triangles in a Minecraft server, please.
Minecraft looks better than Wow. On Android.
?t=293
Is that texture pack also running 1,000 players and scripting events with particle effects? I'm not playing the video because it's going to annihilate my YT recommendations.
On PC? Easy.
Enjoy carrying shitters for an entire hour because of a non existent DPS check. Those are a mercy kill.
You're so mindbroken by modern MMOs you think every piece of content needs to be an hp bar bossfight.
Combat is already skill-based. You're talking about itemization or gearing, which is an entirely different beast, and there are still arguments today about vertical versus horizontal progression, so if you pick a side, we can argue on that point. It seems like you're favoring horizontal considering you don't want DPS checks.
There needs to be a form of currency or else players will have no real lock behind getting any item they want through crafting. If you argue that crafting shouldn't matter, then you're removing a major factor in how players can specialize. If you argue that gear rewards should be quest-based, then certain quests will objectively be better than others and, instead of it being an activity, it becomes a requirement. If you argue that gear should be drop-based, then you're contradicting your desire to not reward the most-autistic, who would be grinding them out.
Content cannot be randomly generated when dozens, if not hundreds, of people will be participating each time. If you mean instanced content specifically, then it defeats the purpose of crafting an experience for the player and we would run into numerous scripting issues, especially in larger instances. A machine might be able to build generic instanced areas and utilize basic mobs, but the sheer processing power needing for variation on the scale of a 3D engine connected to a data center would cost the company more per hour than an investor would reasonably accept.
>Combat is already skill-based.
>MMO
Post your rank 1 gladiator title then lmao.
3 iq moron kek
Post your rang in real skill based games like Rainbow Six or League of Legends.
WoW arenas requires higher skill than either of those generic low IQ "games".
Cope, WoW arena trash for shitters.
As much as you don't like it, dead-zoning, LoSing, anti-teleporting, and even something as simple as turning off auto-attack mid-fight are all skill-based tools that a player, and not a class, brings to combat. If you want to improve PvE mechanics... that's not going to happen. The AI can be reactive to one person, but five? Ten? Forty? It won't happen, because it can't reasonably happen.
Drops would be another form of currency that the Chinese and bots could farm. That's not a currency issue, that a Chinese and botting issue, which I agree with you on as being a serious problem.
If you have an example of a 3D game which asks for 25 people to be in one area at the same time that uses randomly generated content and more than bare-bones spawn and AI scripting, I will concede this point. Otherwise, no, it can't happen.
Just copy GW2 events but make them not braindead shit, here let me write one out for you.
Welcome to the cum forest zone, home of the cum elves! Oh no! X enemy group is attacking Y point of interest!
>Group up with players around town, and ride out to meet the threat
>Look in general to see the state of things
OH GOD OH FRICK, we're getting pushed back at location Y by enemy group Y! If they win then group X will be even stronger!
>Go help shitters
Thank you senpai, can i have your discord so I can suck your e-wiener
>No
>Ride to main boss at point X
>Fight him with group
Thank you adventurererer! You saved the cumelves, have X and Y item as a reward!
Whoa, so hard!
GW2 doesn't randomly generate its open world content, all of that, including success and failure at an event, is all scripted and pre-determined by basic parameters, with the parameters changing every few seconds based on the number of players in a given vicinity. That's totally different and much more rudimentary than randomly-generated instanced content.
You can generate that shit easy. GW2 doesn't because it's a shit game for braindead MMO morons and all of the content can be done in your sleep.
>As much as you don't like it, dead-zoning, LoSing, anti-teleporting, and even something as simple as turning off auto-attack mid-fight are all skill-based tools that a player, and not a class, brings to combat.
It's less than a basic of any pvp game, LMAO.
>The AI can be reactive to one person, but five? Ten? Forty? It won't happen, because it can't reasonably happen.
Block your path. Like hundreds of other mobs from cooperative games that are designed to fight with more than one player. Let's face it, MMO players are dumb creatures and that's why they play MMOs as the easiest games genre on the planet.
Elden Ring has a maximum of four players and the game has shown it uses input reading, specifically. Input reading greatly loses its potency for making "epic gameplay" (which I'm surprised you're using it as an example, given your derision of brain-dead players) because one unit responding to one player during one cycle doesn't prevent it from reacting to the other four, nine, or thirty-nine other players acting at the same time.
You cannot, and at no point did you address the scripting issues.
First, Radan is designed around combat with a large number of summons, which is why he is also called a raid boss. Second - there are plenty of co-op games that have more than four players, so shut up, MMO's are just shit for idiots and you're one of those idiots with a small brain, if your brains weren't small you wouldn't be playing MMOs in the first place.
Well, you're clearly not an idiot with that colorful and verbose vocabulary. If MMOs are only for idiots, why do you care so much about offering suggestions? Would you like to play one for once? If so, how about you take a backseat to those of us who have actually played MMOs regularly and know what we are talking about, instead of commenting about something you have no knowledge about--other than, of course, MMOs being for idiots, which I assure you, you are not.
Because MMOs ruined my favorite childhood games - Warcraft and Diablo. Also, MMOs have potential, you just need to make a better gameplay.
Well, unfortunately, MMOs are made for idiots. Or, at least, the lowest common denominator. The same people who hate your Soulsborne bosses also hate even a middling challenge in MMOs. The PvE combat can't change, because it's designed for the stupid. Even PvP combat is being put under-fire because some players are just downright incompetent and can't be bothered to learn basic techs. It's why the majority of suggestions are about bringing back exploration and focusing less on the raiding, the combat, the gear checks. As sad as it is, the only real suggestion for an MMO is to bring back that sense of wonder. No matter how mechanically elegant or deep the game is, without that magic, it's worthless.
Well, that's impressive, and there is something to learn from it after all.
Pressing a button combination and walking outside of red circles while you're add on calls out "mechanics" is not skill-based. A basic FPS requires more skill than MMO simon says bullshit.
I said currency is dead, there needs to be another solution because as it is now it will inevitably get overrun with bots and RMT Chinese. Monster Hunter solved this years ago, you get drops, and craft gear from drops. And there are dozens of ways to make players not play only one type of quest.
Content can be randomly generated, it's not as hard as you think. There are already games that provide challenging randomly generated content.
Add a 4th one - Community created content so that playerbases don't have to wait +6 months for devs to create new content.
>it's another thinly veiled "how do we save wow" thread
Getting tired of these. And the answer is, you can't.
MMO genre started and ended with WoW. MMOs will likely never come back even if the world gets better.
MMOs started long before WoW and the MMO genre hasn't ended yet either.
Like with many things in vidya the problem are the players not just the companies.
Just look at vanilla wow to see what happens when you bring old mmo rules to new mmo players, for all the b***hing about modern wow all the people just rushed to cap to do endgame content and broke it so hard they made it trivial.
Then they go back on their forums b***hing about how every mmo is shit nowadays, while shoving that very shit down their throats with gusto.
Unfortunately you can't go back, and it will on get worse once pay to earn and nfts takes root.
>how do we fix the ehm ehm ow genre /vee UwU ecksdee
>MORE ERP SERVERS SQUEEEEEEEE
Fricking have a nice day. NPCs and wowtrannies ruined the genre. Making more warcraft and ff14 clones will not save it. Fricking KIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLL YOURSELVES
for me, the problem with modern mmo's absolutely is vertical progression.
>makes old comfy zones/worlds/continents obsolete and empty
>makes your gear garbage every patch
seriously, this is just a lack of creativity.
FFXI for example stuck with horizontal progression for most of its life, for expansions they made new continents/zones/dungeons/fights/jobs without raising the level cap. because it had a system where 1 character could play all jobs, and itemization that made different gear sets capable of vastly different things, there was always reason to explore both new and old content. depending on the job you might have an evasion set, a TP/power gauge building set and then a set for more powerful abilities and weapon skills. weapons and spells that were good for only certain situations, and weapons and spells that were kinda just for fun.
combat skills, crafting skills, gathering skills, cooking skills, all of it stayed relevant and important to maintaining your character, not just optional braindead content. deep dark lonely frickin dungeons you might just discover by chance while exploring the world. now what? you just sit in a city and queue up in a lobby to run dungeons with people who are basically bots in order to get that patch's best gear only to be bored again and b***hing about the time between patches. there are a million ways to make a lateral/horizontal progression work,giving new and old players alike more content so they aren't fricking unsubbing every patch to search for their next quick one patch and done dopamine fix.
>BUT NOBODY WANTS THAT! DEAD GAME! BOOMER!
not every major mmorpg needs to have WoW or FFXIV's purported sub numbers to be a success or worth picking up for awhile. those old mmorpg's are still worth going back to years later and all this "classic" re-release shit is testament to that.
GW2 has shown us that horizontal progression without regular end-game content results in players leaving or engaging heavily in ERP waiting for the next content patch. It's a double-edged sword. Vertical progression has the illusion of more content since whatever drops needs to be re-ran multiple times to actually "complete" it and get all geared up. Horizontal progression doesn't have that, and if whatever new content is released isn't enjoyed by the players, it's wasted content and hurts the morale of players and developers alike and causes a content drought.
GW2 has far bigger issues, like shitty timed events and loot boxes. running the same dungeon or raid 20 times every patch is fine, but having the option to go back and flesh out your character in other areas only adds reason to play. the people that play modern mmorpg's and actually stay subbed do shit like collecting transmog and mounts/pets from old areas when they're done with the new content. that works for some people, but it's not progress.
Wrong
People aren't leaving because of the horizontal progression, they're leaving because there's no new fricking content and ANET keeps blowing all their resources on shitty singleplayer storylines that somehow needs a council of 10+ writers to come up with this absolute dog-shit
Myself and everyone in my friend group left GW2 after the first month because the game felt pointless to continue playing. Horizontal progression meant there was nothing to work towards, which is fine for some games, but fricking sucks for an MMO.
The goal that one works towards in GW2 is unlocking cosmetics and gaining titles and making legendary equipment through completing achievements. GW2 primarily works for players who get the pleasure chemical from achievement hunting.
the worst kind of mmo "content" then.
yeah I stopped shortly after release for the exact same reason, you hit max level and there was nothing to do besides farming Orr or stacking in dungeons.
Shit fricking sucked
I remember how in Diablo 2 we just started all over again because the game was so interesting. The unwillingness to have multiple characters to try new classes/builds is a testament to how bad MMOs is as games.
I'm with you on this. I played ffxi back in 2004-06 and nothing has come close to its magic. i recently resubbed, started over, and am having a blast re-exploring areas with Trusts I've spent most of my time killing legacy NMs for gear that I've always wanted but could never get due to too many people camping the mob or just plain bad RNG. Sure I could bum rush it to 99 but right now I'm having a ball by taking my time. I got lost in garlaige citadel trying to get the limit break 50 item and I had a great time.
>full control, infinite budget
Hire whoever programmed WoWs engine, iterate and iterate until the game feels like sex just to move let alone fight
Gritty heavy metal cover artstyle, none of this dreamworks pixar bullshit
Have a class all about storms, thunder and lightning
The werewolf race have tail options
Most high level areas should be semi instanced (built so you bump into other players) and extremely extremely dangerous with quests, npc's, vendors, player housing/bases and shortcuts you can unlock deep inside (account wide)
Rep system in each zone where you can expensively hire locals and mercs to help you quest, there are stronger mercs out in the wilds but you'll have to find them, or just team up with other players
All your skill levelups are hidden throughout the world, leveling is tied to talent specializations and stats, not skills
gays will just wiki everything, but people who want a genuine world to explore would have thousands of hours worth of shit to do in a system like this
Keep in mind this is the same community that constantly complains about the game being singleplayer but then cries and screams when blizz force them to find groups for dungeons by removing the LFD tool
Stop it. No one wants the "I'm an adventurer in a massive world where I need to team up with a bunch of morons I don't want to talk to because I'm just HOPING someone might chat"
Current model is fine
I have yet to meet anyone who, back in vanilla, TBC, and Wrath, that actually utilized "/who warrior 23-25" and then whispered everyone on the returned list to ask if they could tank Deadmines, and such variations for other dungeons.
I just want a ton of quality casual PvE (instanced and overworld) that can't be soloed and isn't dead
recent MMOs have all been either PvP focused and too many drop class roles and make everyone a DPS and let you solo most dungeons/bosses (since they have no heal/tank mechanics)
mmo is fricking cancer i would spend my money on a psyop so noone remembers what the word mmo even means frick mmos
An mmo is only rewarding if the grind is difficult and or extremely long. Its the ultimate gatekeep and it allows the server you're on to always have a steady flow of players in all level brackets.
Wait for Ashes of Creation. The MMO genre will be saved by an actual homosexual.
>Ashes of Creation
Dogshit game that will be dead on arrival.
why? why do Gankertards keep saying this? the game has huge hype outside of this shitty basket weaving forum
great idea but would require an insane investment of resources and devs to accomplish, you're asking for ~8 games to be made at once, then expecting them to synergise.
Only new systems like the stardew valley farm would take a lot more resources,but quests and professions update would be no different than if you had the team working on a expansion. Which i said is not a thing, there is no expansion. You just put the entire dev team on what you got now and add bits and pieces in the world like osrs.
Lol lmao, this homie really think aoc will save anything
They were a consequence of the times, the magic of playing an online game with people from anywhere in the world was a big deal in 2005, not now.
You want to know how to many mmos great again?
You put the multiplayer back into it. Follow the model of EQ and have all content be group content. You can't even solo a bear in the wilds. You need at least 2 people to kill that fricker. Want to go into that spooky pyramid and kill mummies? You need to get 3-6 people and go in there together. No match making queue. No auto-grouping. Just a chat channel or better yet make them go to a central location in a city and advertise for groups there. Convenience in grouping makes people treat others like shit. If you make it easy to find a new person instantly, people will treat eachother like they are disposable straws or toilet paper. Just throw them out and get a new one.
Also you need to slow the game down. Regenerating HP/Mana has to take at least a minute or two between fights. You have to give players time where they are not "doing their rotation" so they can "type to other players and make friends".
>type
>in 2022
>when voice chat exists
Why are MMO players the dumbest retrogrades ever? Even fightingtards are less resistant to innovation than these idiots.
>when voice chat exists
>what is Proximity Voice Chat
Fricking cavemen this mmotards.
None of the actual mmos have that shit, if you are in a group with quetzalcoatl no proximity shit will save you.
>oh no, I can't socialize and that's why the game shouldn't have social functions
LMAO, as always it turns out that mmotard can't communicate with people and that's why he play mmo. You ask an annoying player to shut up, or get a group to kick him out, but no, that's too much work for an mmotard.
persistent world with non instanced housing, castles, trade routes that are at risk is important, channel swapping makes world pvp irrelevant
Go back to Everquest and evolve it further, make a world that feels organic, grounded and exciting to explore with combat that encourages team work and strategy building comradery among the players.
>muh mmos is so difficult, I has to press keys and muh rotation!
>muh souls games is so tuff, I has to press light attack and roll around da boss!
What a fricking joke. Have you gays ever even played a a fighting game? You know what I hav to do every. Single. Match?
I have to consider my strategy before the fight even fricking begins when I see who I'm up against. I have consider my spacing. Consider my recover on every single button I press. Try and bait my opponent. Perform lengthy and tightly paced combos some of which are frame tight and rythem based. AND do all this at the same time.
Get on my fricking level with your boomer and kiddie shit games. Now kneel.
>fighting game
you're black, nobody cares
i quit wow 3 years ago , or 5 ? ye i think 6 , you can too.
you would need a time machine
MMOs were special for being almost the only true "multiplayer" games out there and having persistent worlds
Both can now be done in any game. Fricking No Man's Sky is technically MMO by old MMO standards.
Truth: We have grown out of the need for MMOs. Everything can be a MMO now if they wish to.
I have The Idea.
But it will die with me. Is impossible to do now but is still not too crazy.
>I have The Idea.
>But it will die with me. Is impossible to do now but is still not too crazy.
Based moron
Dark Souls but with gathering hubs to prepare for quests and forming parties.
Just drop the pretense at this point
Get rid of the subscription model and embrace the singleplayer game with option for MMO lobbies like Destiny and Monster Hunter
>How can the MMO genre be fixed?
Kill all israelites.
I would make it fun.
Something like valve hammer, for custom >mapping
>models
>encounters using available assets
>create new mechs
But fashion and p2w/convenience tools will never be given to autistic playerbase who would do this shit for free. No modern game will reach the heights because the talent is artificially limited to 300person sjw studio owned by some shadow asian israelite that will use mobile mtx and designed inconvenience for profits
I really like this idea actually. Would love to see player made dungeons and raids complement official ones.
>Player made custom dungeons and raids can reward xp and some limited common item/material/consumable drops but capped for obvious reasons
>Players give an overview of what the instance is balanced for, e.g Level X players with Y gear
>Uniques and high tier gear can only come from official content from the developer
>Players use these custom instances as a way to tweak boss/puzzle mechanics and push players to their limits or something enjoyable to do to pass the time with friends
How to genuinely make a good mmo:
-Dark, serious artstyle similar to warhammer, very little coomerdom and have it restricted to certain classes/races so you can filter and not invite coomer filth into your group
-Very little QoL, traveling, combat and everything is slow and requires you to be resourceful and micro-managing things constantly.
-Interesting and varied races with their own unique ways of travel and/or combat, monsters, aliens, eldritch beings, just make sure it isn't 4 human variants like in final trantasy
-3 factions, with one being aliens or enemies of the world with classes geared towards self-reliance for solotards
-Built in hardcore modes for free streamerino autist appeal
-Some dungeons to have pvp in them where you are competing against a party of the enemy faction
-Certain dungeons or events which are randomly generated
And voila, you have a good mmo
>A DUUUH THIS WON'T BE FORTNITE TIER POPULAR THE HECKIN CHILDREN AND 40 YEAR OLD WAGECVCKOLDS WON'T BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE THE ENTIRE GAME IN 1 WEEK OF PLAYING
Shut up Black person, feel free to go to wow or final trantasy and waste your life erping
I would make mmos of actual good genres like mmofps, mmostrategy, mmo party games
Every moron dev thinks they need to cater to the braindead shit eating mmorpg genre over and over again with failed games, meanwhile planetside and eve online have absolutely no competition for the past 20 years
lol
You must be the aforementioned shit eating rpg fan, dont worry im sure you'll get to try out 10 new mmorpgs that will all flop next year, all while mmofps and eve goes unchallenged for another year
Focus on player expression over a bunch of failed writers who want to tell their shitty NPC self-insert story
THIS THREAD HAPPENSL ALL THE FRICKING TIME
HERE'S THE SOLUTION:
NO NPCS
>NO NPCS
NO NPCS
>NO NPC
IF SOMEONE MANAGES TO MAKE MMO WITHOUT NPCS where EVERYONE IS A HUMAN ENJOYING THE GAME, THE GENRE CAN BE FIXED
it just has to be made fun for everyone, even jannies, which is the challenge
WTF
Unironically this.
Just make an mmo where you can end up replacing every single npc once the character is good enough at their class/profession.
>start off as some pleb warrior in Elywnn forest
>pick up blacksmithing, go cave diving, come back with a bag of ore
>rinse repeat
>reach journeymen blacksmithing
>compete with other players to take over the smithy in Elywnn
>rake in cash repairing armor from noobs dying to hogger
>gradually become better and better and move shop to a major city
Soon every single character in game from guard to merchant to faction leader is a player as it should be.
Yeah and that game would die within a month because not enough people would ever play like that. They would be in their own private discord calls socially secluded to their own little "islands". The in game world would be dead.
this would only work if the game only had a single server and everyone had tolerable latency
Beta wakfu was like this, you just get exp from killing mobs you had to actively mine, mints, and print your own money by being a blacksmith. So the whole market was player driven, you could also cut up monster corpses for mats or gather seeds from them to spawn even more monsters. It had a nice balance were if you over hunted or over gathers stuff the rewards for that zone was be bad
Make it anime and have a mobile game component for certain things because gacha players aren't that discerning and it'll give the game some extra legs. Grinding for certain things, raising pets. Maybe some secret base visiting like in pokemon?
Then make it so that the optimal "thing" for grinding or builds or whatever shifts over time so even if there are guides or people hit endgame, there's horizontal progression. Also, fun social minigames that have little to do with grinding or gear.
This is a good start.
Use the traditional hub based worlds instead of a fully open world, to reduce the burden. The gameplay should have soft puzzle elements, kind of like crosscode.
>make it anime
frick off weebBlack person
anime is ruining everything
Nah anime is huge and the best, only morons dislike it
Sorry lad gotta get that easy money, I'm the boss now
wasn't sherwood dungeon basically this? it sucked
Enforce a 1:1 male to female ratio.
Yeah
There is practically no saving it, the budget needed to surpass old games is too much, no big corperation is willing to risk it in general, even if one was it would be soulless garbage, there's nothing for them to copy except existing failed shit and the soulless fricks can't possibly make anything new and interesting, even if some good idea was made, there's no good programmers left, only pajeets and morons taught to work together with pajeets.
no instancing
no raids
You can't. It was a genre that could only exist at a certain time in history. Evolution of technology and the changes of the internet and culture have caused that time to be put in the past.
It is impossible to recapture.
Focus on a open world and player freedom.
If you want to go run a farm like stardew you can go do that.
You want to go kill monsters and level up your combat class you can do that.
You just want to run around and do crafted quests thats not there for xp but to tell a story of the world then you can go do that.
You want to just pvp you can go do that.
You just want to train a profession and stay lvl 1 with your combat class? you can go do that.
You just want to do all the raids? you can level up get all the req and go do that.
Player freedom, not a single one of these are forced and caters to different kind of people and it starts at lvl 1.
Game would also go away from expansions instead focus on making the world denser and better and whatever fails always got a team that will tweak it till it serves a purpose and has synergy with the world. AKA no wasted systems
This but also a strong emphasis on races, environments, and culture of the races and environments while allowing players be able to create it with tribes and all.
I would like to make some night elf and have a player faction kill any other race that tries to enter the alien forest even though we would be in the Alliance faction.
You just described Albion Online like most posts in this thread.
Make WoW 2
>How can the MMO genre be fixed?
Stop appealing to esport homosexuals and raiders. Focus on exploration and good world design over raiding autism. All content should be soloable but very difficult. Group content should take heavy focus on guilds and guilds should feel like a goddamn guild. They should have ranks that actually affect the way you play the game and access to content you wouldn't normally have access to if you weren't in a guild. Most importantly NO MORE CHORES.
That ashes of creationguy has great ideas so take those and make them good
Remove dailies and weeklies
just make ragnarok online again
If I had all that cash I wouldn't make an MMO, that genre is full of homosexualry I would just make a good honest to heart single player game.
I don't think I have all the ideas to fix them, but I would remove instanced content, no more shitty raiding in isolated corridors or circles. I think MMOs should be about immersing in a huge actively filled world rather than jumping between hubs and instances. I also tire of the linear item-level based progression. I really do not want to play MMOs anymore because constantly running small dungeons/raid encounters and logging off is absolutely dismal.
FFXIV already saved the genre
Lot of copers ITT
>FFXIV already saved the genre
I just want cool races and cool-looking gear to grind for
i don't play osrs because you level past half the armors super fast and then there's nothing cool past barrows anyways
>How can the MMO genre be fixed
outlaw online streaming, eceleb worshipping, meta cuckery and reporting players over anything except cheating
no wiki, no datamining
Pay-to-play
No player housing, farms or any other persistent "simulation" features. Go be autistic somewhere else.
No survival mechanics. We're here to play games, not micromanage resources and pretend we're McGyver.
Combat is either proper action-based with hitboxes or a proper DnD-like RPG.
Player progress is tied to his account+server. A single character can eventually learn everything but you can also make alts without having to grind back up. You can change class/profession once a (day/week/month?) for a scaling nominal fee.
No direct trading or selling anything between players, but every crafting profession can craft for another player using their resources.
Crafting is actually good and scales properly, so that endgame gear is not just drops from one dungeon.
Everyone can equip everything but the effectiveness depends on your class and abilities.
You can refine gear to partially alter stats distribution so that every piece of gear can be made at least somewhat useful for you. In a pinch you can just refine the same piece over and over until it's almost perfect for you.
Loot is individual but party members can forgo their share to increase the rest of the party's.
The overworld has basic "wild" zones for early gathering and leveling, open dungeons where you can solo the outskirts but need a party/higher level to get further in and classic instanced dugneons for harder chalenges.
Crafting and gathering is dependant on the zone and item. Like you can only craft elven weapons at an elven forge, which is easy enough since elves are friendly but crafting abyssal gear require an abyssal forge which is only available deep inside the abyssal expedition zone (open dungeon), or near the end of the 5man Abyss dungeon.
No cosmetics slots but there's a profession purely for changing the model and colors of gear, and even "category" at cost of some stats. So you can make your platemail look like a robe but it'll have less defense.
>No player housing
Aaaaaaaaand dropped.
You can go back to WoW and farm your LFG loser.
Go be autistic somewhere else
Back to LFR with you juan.
cope
housing is literally the main reason FFXIV is the third biggest game on the planet
It's bigger than WoW
You are doing it wrong
You want to fix the game before fixing the community. You might seethe and shit your pants all you want but I clearly remember the current state of MMOs is a direct byproduct of what people wanted back then. I literally remember my guildies talking about this stuff and whining about it. "Why do I have to farm this?" "Why don't I get the loot?" "Why do we have to try so many times?" "Why is this raid so long?" etc.
Yes fampaitachi (You) wanted the LFG, (You) wanted the minmaxed gear, (You) wanted metasites, (You) wanted to be as efficient as possible with farming, (You) wanted quick dungeons, (You) wanted easy gear, (You) wanted quick gold, (You) wanted to go full solo, (You) wanted autopilot no brain quests, (You) wanted cheap gold, and I can go on forever. Then now comes the time where you and asmon tier people have nostalgia overload how much better it was back then, whereas you literally cried about these things. You are a two faced piece of shit and you know it. You think you do, but you don't.
True but also people are moronic and don't know what they actually want
In the players defense nobody knew that this will be the outcome, but that still doesn't change the fact its supply and demand. Every single WoW youtuber is like this too, and they spew their bullshit, then classic comes out, and every one of them is living inside the dungeons. Its so much hypocrisy. For fricks sake buying gold is now normalized. I mean its like 7 eur/1000G, its piss cheap too. Its an open secret that people are into GDKP too, and you are the idiot if you don't participate in their eyes. These are the guys who are always vocal about it, and that what makes it funny, the good old NOCHANGES crowd.
>NOCHANGES (except these huge changes)
If only I could kill people with my mind.
I'll top this more. Early access alpha? Same shit, people wanted it to get into the game ASAP, and now even blizzard releases absolutely broken expansions on WoW too. Flying, WoW token, the facebook garrison goes here too. It was always the player, the developer just supplied. I still remember how much people praised LFG and how they loved the bonus stuff if you queued, since you can multitask. LFR is the same.
I still can't believe GDKP is the standard pug procedure now and is tacitly supported by the devs because it loops back into people buying tokens.
i've seen some serious cancer on the megaserver realms in wow classic but it operates well enough on my server, it gets geared players doing content that they otherwise wouldnt normally bother doing, GDKPs are the ultimate form of pugging, so long as the devs give a shit about combating RMT and gold farming/botting
You can't fix the community, because it's human nature to want most of the things you mentioned. It's normal to take the path of least resistance, and not taking it generally requires conscious effort. You want to get the best gear, you want to have the best build, you want to beat the thing, but as a developer, you can't just hand them out. If given the option, players will always ruin the game for themselves (and this applies to pretty much all games), because the drive to avoid effort is that strong. There are even people who look up solutions in puzzle games.
Some are also things whose effects aren't that predictable. It might seem like a good change, but ends up affecting various things unexpectedly. You can't trust the players, but the solution to that isn't to magically fix the community. It's to not listen to the community for the most part.
This, the ultimate challenge is protecting the player base from themselves.
I think a big issue with this is that the actual game designers aren't probably in charge of many decisions in some companies. So when people high up the ladder hear that the players are dissatisfied with x and y, they tell the developers to fix it, regardless of what other issues it might cause.
Tera but with actual quests, story, music, and less / none of the meme RNG progression non-sense.
It was ahead of it's time at release and is SOMEHOW still ahead of it's time now it just had the korean dev memers in charge which is great for artstyles and graphics but holy frick everything else at times.
Make it like Monster Hunter with a weekly randomly generated world.
>Cities are hubs
>Overworld gets re-generated every week
>Entrances of dungeons must be found every week
>Dungeons are like chalice dungeons but much more complex
>hazard and stealth sections in said dungeons
>Every dungeon is ID unique but can be "memorized" on a one-time-use scroll which you can sell
>Overworld has its own bosses
>Classes which are specialized for dungeons, classes which are specialized on the overworld
Put together Guild Wars 2 open world/dynamic events, remove the loading screens between zones, and add in some WoW raids and you have the perfect MMO.
>subscription based (~$10 a month) to keep the scum out
>no homosexual microtransactions
>no catering toward metagays
That's about all you need. Might be some other stuff I'm forgetting.
Wow, thank christ you are a perma virgin who hasnt left his home in 10 years because those ideas could actually bankrupt an billion dollar company
It can't be "fixed". The genre is too many different things to too many different people. For one game to check off and perfect every single thing differing players want is just not possible.
I'd just go back to the "old ways" of dropping a player into a world with an optional tutorial for the basics of what they need to know, then let the player do whatever. Everything is accessible within the constraints of not dying or having the stats, skills, or level to do it. There would be a story, but the players would have to actively look for it instead of having their hands held. I'd keep it small scale because what I'd make won't ever have mass appeal, but I would aim for a niche and faithful audience.
Could it ever be "fixed"? Wildstar died because it tried to do things different and wasn't like WoW. Classic slowly died off because it had too many things people didn't like in the original expansion and the things players did like were being abused to oblivion like Mages gold farming. Korean MMO's don't work because of the hellacious grinding you have to do to reach the next level. I think everyone is find with grinding because it shows progress but games have also made things a bit too easy to get strong items.
I would personally love if Wildstar came back or if Blizzard introduced new races and updated classes first before doing the rest of the expansions because I like the stories, classes and zones but I also know people would rather play "simplified simulator 3.0" and race to end game content for views.
>Wildstar died because it tried to do things different and wasn't like WoW
Wat. Wildstar's died because it LITERALLY tried to copy WoW. They added in 40 man raids because muh classic WoW and the game died because guilds didn't have enough people to do it.
the 40 man raids weren't why it died. honestly if wildstar came out today it would probably be successful. people are more open to non-wowshit than ever.
the issue with Wildstar is that they catered to the hardcore Raiding demographic while relying on the talent of former blizzard employees to lead them instead of focusing on building a immersive, interactable, engaging, and fun world to play. they also didn't understand what the players wanted and heavily relied on mimicking what the other games were offering instead of continually coming up and sprucing the already existing system like "Adventures" which was left broken and abandoned up until the game shutdown.
Wildstar did have good systems like its housing, raid mechanics, and paths but they simply failed at alot of things that ultimately made players leave for other games.
>MMO
>mass multi
>In this gay ass timeline
no thank you
MMOs have gone the completely wrong way with the whole leveling and grinding gameplay loop.
MMOs biggest draw has always been the fact it's a ingame world where you and tons of other players play together, this is what MMOs should focus on, people already get the grind and RPG aspect in other games so MMOs should hyper focus on the last thing they're unique in.
Basically, just accept what it really is and just make a better Second Life.
frick off normie Black person
MMO socialization shouldn't be simply a glorified chat room. It should be about creating proper communities, with their alliances and feuds, players who become famous or infamous, being able to find likeminded people, etc. The gameplay should be designed to support this. What this means is:
-Players should run into the same players often enough. You can't have the servers be too massive, or almost everyone is a stranger. You need to be forced to interact with other players for various tasks, because most people don't interact with strangers unless it's beneficial or required. There are million different ways to accomplish this, though you should be careful not to overdo it, as people need something to do even when soloing.
-Most issues should be solved by the community itself, not by GMs. Obviously, cheaters and such should get banned, but ninja looting? Sort it amongst yourselves. Griefing? Sort it amongst yourselves. Even scamming should generally be solved by the community. Unfairness should be part of the game. This will only serve to strengthen the community.
-You can't escape from the other players and the community. Basically, if you do decide to scam and lose your reputation, you can't simply change your name or transfer to a different server. If someone takes a liking to you (in some griefing manner for example), you'll have to deal with it within the limits of the game.
-The game needs to offer a varied number of things to do in order to find people with similar interests.
-various other things I can't fit because of character limit
Unexpected things can foster the creation of communities. World buffs, despite being hated on many levels, had an incredible effect on this in classic wow. The amount of hatred people had for some guilds/players just because of them was amazing, and it forced co-operation between guilds, sometimes cross-faction as well. You wouldn't expect such a simple (garbage) mechanic to have such an effect.
Remove npcs, quest and leveling system and make the mmo more party/coop dependable instead of yolo solo. With that you fixed shitty korean system.
Double down on the live event approach of Ultima Online, hire people to play as and in some cases voice NPCs, give them GM-like powers (where appropriate) so they can create dynamic content on the fly. No longer would a villain be a passive background element, but an actual actor in the game world, getting up to actual evil that players who happen to be around can try to stop.
Problem is everyone is trying to copy&paste WoW while following shitty korean methods and themeparks
what robe is that gnome wearing?
Life sim shit, probably.
Not just like house ownership and crop growing. Let people raise armies and fight for territory with other guilds, built entire cities, start businesses, etc.
Star Wars Galaxies was great.
You can't.
The internet has changed. People no longer WANT to socialize. They fear socialization for some reason or another, or have existing friend groups and just want to play with them (totally a valid thing).
So, instead of catering to the niche and expanding upon the basis of the genre, they changed it, to appeal to the larger consumer base. It's what anyone would do in a business sense. Sucks, but it's understandable.
You can't fix it. It's over. Enjoy the memories, move on. Short of having a game completely lock you out of every other program and banning you if it ever detected you opening a wiki, you'll never experience that mystery again, everyone's too efficiency minded. Plus, even if it did those things, smartphones exist, it's impossible to stop people from communicating outside the game, coordinating outside the game, documenting the game on wikis and stuff, so there's 0 chance of mystery ever existing again in terms of MMOs.
It can't. If you play mmos you hate yourself. It's like a second job except you are not getting paid.