How come no others settings have good Female Villains?
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How come no others settings have good Female Villains?
How come no others settings have good Female Villains?
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even in fantasy, women in leadership roles would push suspension of disbelief beyond limits
Yeah but a self righteous b***h who woild rather burn the world down than not get her way is very believable. I love my wife, my family a lot, but if there is anything Ive been taught by the women in my life ia that if left to their own devices they would ruin everything.
Adults are talking, honey. Why don't you go back to your containment board and play?
why is there never an actual argument?
it's just name calling
can you at least try to refute if you're not baiting?
Men don't like 'attacking' women.
It's why in jury trials, if the defendant is a woman, the defense wants as many men as possible on the jury.
as an incel chud type person I can tell you now that you are wrong
lol
you're not men you're emasculate losers though
I identify as a man though so I am one.
that means you wouldn’t attack me if you were a real man, sweaty
>ironically missing the d
I would the love the chance to murder some women and children!
It's hard to write women realistically as villains because villainy requires passion, planning and organization, which are antithetical to how women operate. If they're being passionate, organization and planning goes out the window ("why do I like the bad boys?") and if they're planning or organizing, they do so passionlessly.
>It's hard to write women realistically as villains because villainy requires passion, planning and organization, which are antithetical to how women operate. If they're being passionate, organization and planning goes out the window ("why do I like the bad boys?") and if they're planning or organizing, they do so passionlessly.
>hard
Does not mean impossible.
Disney has no shortage of them.
- The Evil Queen
- Lady Tremaine
- Maleficent
- Cruella de Vil
- Madam Medusa
- Ursula
- Yzma
- Queen Narissa
- Mother Gothel
- Assistant Mayor Bellwether
That’s from major releases; there are countless others from spin-offs, sequels, prequels, etc.
Ursula alone proves this wrong. She is immensely passionate, but also meticulous in her planning and organization within the limits of the resources available to her.
Of particular note is how she treats Flotsam and Jetsam - namely, very well, clearly adoring them and complimenting them when they succeed (which is literally every time they try anything, they’re the most competent evil minions in Disney). And rather notably once getting Triton’s trident Ursula was mostly dicking around until Ariel made her accidentally kill the two of them; she reacts with absolute horror at having done so, and then when she recovers is when she puts on her game face.
Yeah you pretty much just need to play up the Witch archetype and don't make them hot.
>and don't make them hot
They sure fricked up with Ursula, then.
Speak for yourself. You seen that body language anon? Ursula would rock your world like you didn't know was possible. Charisma like that is hot af.
> You seen that body language anon?
Don’t underestimate the importance of it.
Not gonna lie, my biggest concern for the live-action Little Mermaid is that they get Ursula right. She’s my favorite Disney villain with my favorite villain song (“Hellfire” is fine, I guess, but there’s way too much pathos and “I’m not really the bad guy” in it for me to really think of it as a true “villain” song - whereas “Poor Unfortunate Souls” is Ursula just having a blast manipulating Ariel and reveling in her power and evil) and my favorite minions.
Disney’s live-action stuff has been hit or miss. Jungle Book and Aladdin were okay. Lion King was not. Beauty & the Beast was atrocious.
Guys, let's recap.
said "don't make them hot"
And then I said
"they sure fricked up with Ursula".
Meaning, they fricked up not making her hot,
meaning, they made her hot. That's what I meant.
Lady Tremaine and Snow White's mom are both hot
>the evil queen
while it's never mentioned in the movie, she has a name: Grimhilde
>It's hard to write women realistically as villains
Touch grass. You will find plenty of abhorrent villainous women IRL.
That's a movie prop, right? No way it's human.
you may not like it, but this is what chosen people look like
She's in Hell now fortunately.
She's dead anon. Can't hurt you. With her uhhh...goodwill for man?
Sadly, she was probably the least villainous in that cabinet.
read up on Bloody Mary.
You couldn't write Thatcher if you fricking tried. Look at WH40k. They tried and people thought they were taking the piss.
Literally unbelievable.
I thought the Thatcher parody was in Judge Dredd.
40k was an extended piss on Thatcherism. Right down to the huge shoulderpads. Still is, although frick if modern 40kids realize or recognize that.
Yeah but there is no Thatcher character is there? I think there's an actual Thatcher character in 2000 AD
Gazgkhull Thrakka
>40k was an extended piss on Thatcherism. Right down to the huge shoulderpads
Not a bong but what does 40k have to do with thatcher?
>t.Argie
OP said villains, not heroes
hahahaha
it's funny because Margaret thatcher like florence nightengale actually fricking hated women
Who knew rampant entitlements would require austerity after you bongs ran out of money.
the only good female villains are the ones that are so old they don't really count as women anymore, like kreia
>kreia
>villain
The entire point of the game and its plot is driven by the fact that she is that she's objectively wrong and incapable of grasping that fact.
nobody’s arguing against her being a woman
The absolute gall of yous.
How dare you spoil the ending of this 20ish year old Boomer rpg.
Starcraft
For Honor
Any story involving Drow
>People don't like to beat up females
>People will try and simp for her or try and redeem her
>It will be viewed as problematic if killing her or overthrowing her is an option
>RRRAAAPPPEEEE
just say she’s ugly, problem solved
Villainous women are heroic
I assume it's because, generally, we have a taboo against seeing women get hurt or killed. Women can be every bit as evil and awful as men, but we just don't like hurting them.
It's very, very rare for a story to end with a male hero flat-out killing a female villain. In fact, male heroes rarely fight female villains at all! When was the last time Captain America had a fight with a Nazi dominatrix or whatever?
There's one oft-reposted image from a fantasy manga, about a guy who just straight-up cuts a villainess in half, and the usual comment is "She was so hot, it's such a shame to kill her."
Captain America is probably the worst hero you could have picked considering he has a comparatively large number of female villains. "Nazi dominatrix" alone gets you Sinthea Schmidt, Andrea von Strucker, Mother Night and the Sisters of Sin, and Viper.
Sounds like I need to read Captain America.
Yes, but does he beat them unconscious?
I don't think you read it right, they beat him
>mother night
Oh God please tell me that isn't a real character
Morathi is a great villain.
Morathi is a hero not a villain
Sorceresses too.
I want to Sigvald this Druchii
Dark elves are always great villains. Especially when redeemed by paladin sex.
Elves in general make great villainesses.
>666
CamCam no!
CamCam YES!
god, i want gwerm mansion to update already
She's evil but I want to mating press the psyco elf gf so badly. Anons help
Imagine how screwed up the kids would be.
I dont care how depraved and monstrous she is, I would empty load after load into that minx till we had a brood of half elf kids who may have potentially inherited their mothers sociopathy gene. Imagine
I am helpful, am I not?
All these guys saying taboo are talking out of their ass, the real reason is purely because a lot of women in games are just fapbait. There you go, the real answer.
Can't you have a good female villain who is also fapbait?
Eve from Adam and Eve.
Literally caused humanity to fall.
Everyone blames Adam.
>Literally caused humanity to fall.
Did you just imply that God didn't want them to fall and it happened anyway, against his wishes? Did you just imply that god is fallible?
God is puny.
Honestly an objective analysis puts the blame on either God or the Serpent. The Tree is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Eve was aware that God did not want her to eat from the tree but was literally incapable of grasping that there were moral implications to disobeying God or going back against, well, anything.
The Serpent took advantage of that, so he rightly deserves blame (and as a side note: the Bible never mentions him as being anything other than a serpent, and the curse that God lays on him wouldn't make sense if he were anything other than a serpent. That is, it's a fricking talking snake, not the Devil. At most it's David Tennant).
However. God knew all of this, and on top of that knew, well, literally everything that was about to happen. Yet instead of taking reasonable precautions to prevent Eve (or Adam for that matter) from eating from the tree - like, say, a fence - God simply relied on the honor system. From two people who literally did not and could not comprehend the idea of the honor system.
God was grossly negligent at best, and acted with deliberate malicious intent at worst.
> God was grossly negligent at best, and acted with deliberate malicious intent at worst.
I'd lean towards the latter, honestly. Consider this: if the purpose of Jesus was to die for our sins and cleans us of original sin and create a place for us in heaven, he HAS to get crucified. For some reason, thats the plan. Dick move to make a son to die like that, but okay thats the plan.
But Jesus doesn't end up on that cross unless Judas betrays him. Which begs the question... was Judas's betrayal *wrong*? On the surface, yes its very bad he betrayed Jesus and got him killed. but if Judas DOESN'T betray Jesus the plan fails and everybody still has original sin and goes to hell. So Judas was instrumental to saving the souls of every person. He was doing god's work.
So god comes up with plans that REQUIRE people to do bad stuff and to sin for his own plans to come to fruition... but then he also punishes people for doing the part of the plan he scripted for them even though if they had made the 'right' choice it would have ruined everything.
>can't comprehend free will
Fricking atheists.
Do you understand the relations between power, knowledge and will and how it affects responsibility?
Except that Christian doctrine is that it is literally impossible to go against God’s plan. So how can Judas have done anything different than what he did?
Setting aside the problem of omniscience for a moment, what happens if Judas DID do something different? “Yo frick off Asslickus, Jesus is my bro,” spake Judas.
Would Jesus/God be angry with him for ruining his chance to die as per the Plan? Or would Jesus/God contrive a way to carry out the Plan anyway, like turn himself in or something?
The point is that if there’s a version of the Plan that doesn’t involve eternal damnation and hatred for someone, then why isn’t that Plan A?
Because 9 out of 10 times it comes down to a physical showdown.
Writers aren't historical buffs so they don't bother to look up women in power that actually did some awful shit. Just make her hot and """""redeemable""""" and it seems to keep selling
wrong
Women are simped on by society. Portraying them negatively otherwise undermines the narrative.
However Vidya is a good resource: One of My favourite villainess is I-no from guilty gear. Mainly because her boss battle in accent core is utter fricking bullshit, because she's an input reading prostitute. But also she's able to back up her arrogance and thoughts of superiority with actual abilities. And boobs, don't forget the boobs.
Because good villains have depth and wel reasoned motives.
Thats a bold claim.
Literally the only thing wrong with Yotsuyu as a villain was you did not get to fight her. Until the epilogue
Dragonlance does a'right
Pic not related?
>pic
I would hardly call her a good villain.
Her evil plan revolves around the player character having no agency of any kind and never being able to tell her to frick off.
ToB is really bad compared to SoA.
Do you want me to tell you a few real ones for inspiration? How evil do you want them? Are you OK with abuse and murder of other women and children?
I feel like you want to tell OP of human pig.
Emperor Xiaohui (Liu Ying, Emperor Hui of Han) kept his step-brother King of Zhao (Liu Ruyi,King Yin of Zhao) by his side in the palace and checked for poison in any aliment delivered to him. Emperor Xiaohui also brought Liu Ruyi with him wherever he went. In one early morning in the twelfth month of the first year of Emperor Xiaohui, the emperor went on a hunting trip; this time King of Zhao was left alone because he could not wake up early. Emperor Xiaohui supposed his mother would not plot against King of Zhao as several months had passed without any occurrence. Nevertheless, Empress Dowager had an assassin force venom down King of Zhao's throat...When the Emperor came back, Liu Ruyi was already dead. She then had Concubine Qi's limbs chopped off, blinded her by gouging out her eyes, cut off her tongue, cut off her nose, cut off her ears, forced her to drink a potion that made her mute, made her dumb with toxins, and locked her in the pigsty, and called her a "human swine" (人彘). Several days after, Emperor Xiaohui saw the "human swine", and after realising who the "human swine" was, the emperor was so sick of his mother's cruelty that he virtually relinquished his authority and indulged in carnal pleasures.
Nevermind, you already did.
I have many more examples, if you are eager. From serial killers, criminals, to tyrants.
Frick yeah. Areelu was an amazing villain, equal parts monstrous and sympathetic.
been a while since I read about her but iirc she did literally nothing wrong
R u serious? I just put Hitlery Killton as the villain in all my campaigns. My players are libcucks so they automatically hate her.
>ToB
>good villain
She was easily the worst part of that whole game. Her whole plan was basically just Irenicus' with plot armor and her motivation was... I'm just evil OKAY? Shit tier.
Probably the best written character in the star wars universe
Doesn't mean she's right or you gotta agree with her
worst written*
I think most of the time, the villainess being a humanoid causes a lot of baggage and expectation/treatment issues you can get around if you straight up make her inhuman in physical ways that make buying into her behavior and capabilities more believable.
Whatever anon mentioned witches hit it straight in the nail. Women having to be beautiful enormously limits their villainy, witches (who do not) can go full ham and express a complete range of facial expressions, be designed to evoke specific feelings without beauty concerns getting in the way and their lack of beauty takes away many taboos on how they may be treated by the heroes while looking properly heroic.
Disney understands this. It is why the evil queen becomes an old witch for the final battle, it is why they give us gals like Izma and Ursula, and why many of their villains, male or female are simply older than the heroes. Villains need a full range of expressions and beauty gets in the way.
The classical inspiration for beauty and young related evil is Elizabeth Bathory.
Aptly nicknamed the Blood Countess, Elizabeth Bathory was a Hungarian noblewoman, and she was probably the most prolific female serial killer of all time. At the end of the 16th century and beginning of the 17th century, Bathory tortured and killed up to 650 girls and young women at her castle in Cachtice, modern Slovakia. The macabre nickname came from her apparent tendency to bathe in the blood of her victims as she believed it would help her maintain her youthful-looking skin.
That 100% made up bullshit
Enriqueta Martí, known as the vampire of Barcelona, grew up in the Spanish city of Barcelona during the late nineteenth century. She was poor and earned money by working as a prostitute before opening her own brothel in 1909.
But this was no ordinary brothel. Enriqueta disguised herself as a member of the lower classes and kidnapped children between the ages of three and twelve. Affluent, aristocratic men would then rent these children for their own sexual pleasures.
Enriqueta also earned money by selling facial creams and healing tonics. She made these substances by meshing the blood, bones, and fat of the children she kidnapped. Many affluent women were interested in her products, as there was a superstition amongst the upper classes that the blood of children could prolong the aging process.
The authorities knew that children were going missing, but they didn’t do anything for years because the families who were affected were mostly poor. Eventually, however, Enriqueta’s twisted schemes were unveiled when the police raided her apartments and discovered the bloodied remains of her victims.
She was sent to prison and died in March 1913. As for Enriqueta’s clients, they avoided any form of punishment, as the police were afraid of a backlash against the upper classes.
Weird how some things never change
Queen Ranavalona ruled the island of Madagascar from 1828 to 1861. And during this time, she murdered more than half of her citizens.
The source of Ranavalona’s barbarism was her hatred of Christianity. She loathed the missionaries who came to her island to spread the word of God, and when her citizens started to convert to Christianity, she vowed to destroy the lot of them.
Ranavalona killed the Christians in a variety of gruesome ways. They were thrown off high rocks, burned at the stake, beheaded, boiled, and forced to drink poisonous liquids.
Many of these executions were carried out in public as a warning to others. And though the smell of mounting flesh soon became unbearable, the Christian population continued to increase under Ranavalona’s rule. No matter what she did, more and more people were converting to Christianity.
By the end of her reign, the death toll exceeded two million.
"Persecution of Christians intensified in 1840, 1849 and 1857; in 1849, deemed the worst of these years by Cummins, 1,900 people were fined, jailed or otherwise punished for their Christian faith, and 18 were executed."
Madagascar's population fell from about 5 million to about 2.5 million over less than a decade of her reign. You're correct that it was not largely due to "executions" as we think of them. Continuing warfare and forced labour caused most deaths. Some also coming from trial by ordeal involving consumption of poison.
Excuse me!?
Welcome to China.
>Daji also enjoyed torture and executions, and would reportedly laugh at every execution. According to stories, she also appeared to be quick to torture. At one point, she noticed a farmer walking across ice barefoot, and so she ordered his feet cut off to understand why he was resistant to low temperatures. In another story, Daji had a pregnant woman's belly cut open so that she could find out herself what happened inside. Bi Gan, King Zhou's uncle, reportedly received an unfortunate end at Daji's hands by having his heart cut out and examined to determine if the ancient saying of "a good man's heart has seven apertures" was true.
Daji was best known for her invention of a method of torture known as the Bronze Toaster (炮烙). This is described as a bronze cylinder covered with oil heated like a furnace with charcoal beneath until its sides were extremely hot. The victim was forced to walk on top of the slowly heating cylinder, and he was forced to shift his feet in order to not burn. The oily surface made it difficult for the victim to maintain their balance, and if the victim fell into the charcoal below, they would be burnt to death.
that's just a woman being a crazy b***h
She was just curious, bro
>Emperor Xiaohui (Liu Ying, Emperor Hui of Han) kept his step-brother King of Zhao (Liu Ruyi, King Yin of Zhao) by his side in the palace and checked for poison in any aliment delivered to him. Emperor Xiaohui also brought Liu Ruyi with him wherever he went. In one early morning in the twelfth month of the first year of Emperor Xiaohui, the emperor went on a hunting trip; this time King of Zhao was left alone because he could not wake up early. Emperor Xiaohui supposed his mother would not plot against King of Zhao as several months had passed without any occurrence. Nevertheless, Empress Dowager had an assassin force venom down King of Zhao's throat...When the Emperor came back, Liu Ruyi was already dead. She then had Concubine Qi's limbs chopped off, blinded her by gouging out her eyes, cut off her tongue, cut off her nose, cut off her ears, forced her to drink a potion that made her mute, made her dumb with toxins, and locked her in the pigsty, and called her a "human swine" (人彘). Several days after, Emperor Xiaohui saw the "human swine", and after realising who the "human swine" was, the emperor was so sick of his mother's cruelty that he virtually relinquished his authority and indulged in carnal pleasures.
>Writing women as villains is hard.
>Opens History Book
>Reads about Queen Isabella "The She-Wolf of France" who was wronged by having her children taken from her.
>So she left England, shacked up with her Husband's greatest enemy Roger Mortimer (that's a villain name if ever I heard one It even has "death" in it) and united an army to depose him.
>She then had her husband's ally publicly castrated, disemboweled and quartered because he came between her and her children.
>Isabella is said to have been EATING while watching this.
>She then had her husband, Edward II THE KING OF ENGLAND, murdered by having a hot poker shoved up his ass. Why? Because he favored his gay lover over her.
Roger and Isabella are usually portrayed as the protagonists when this story is adapted, but with a little tweaking they would make truly dastardly villains.
but
but she was a hero
It's hard to find fault with her actions. She was justified.
Lady did nothing wrong. A product of her times but thats not something you can rationally hold against someone from 600 years ago. She was based
>It's hard to find fault with her actions. She was justified.
Yeah, unless she hypocritically killed and/or tortured the kids she flipped Europe over for, it's hard to see her as the villain.
You wish your name was that cool, DeShiah Seethburger.
I have no idea where this or the idea that writing female villains is hard. Dont write a male or female villain, just write a good villain. Thats all there is to it. Factor in things to do with gender along the way here and there to make it more believable but becoming obsessed with the deep dive into a woman's psychology and evolutionary behaviour is neither needed nor improves the character. It just makes you look like an incel negatively obsessed with women.
*Came from
I reject the premise. There are plenty of good villains who are female. Unless you're looking for villains who are villainous in a particularly female way. You can find those in any divorce proceedings.
85186810
>ITT reddit atheists debate Christian theology.
Here I thought this board couldn't get worse!